Guild Wars 2

Trajan.4953:

So, just so I understand this latest round of vitriol…

You bought the game and think everything should be free for you despite expansions? You somehow expect a BUSINESS to keep giving you said content for free while still earning enough to make the content?

kitten .. entitled much?

Nice strawman. This is not what I’m saying at all.

I think in WvW, a competitive playing field that requires NO EXPANSION packs to play, there should be equal access to core features like Shield Generators and now gliders.

You know how I would address this current issue? Let all WvW players have a free standard glider in WvW zones only. Offer upgraded skins for these free standard gliders that cost 2400 gems (equivalent to the endless gathering tool pack). Make your money by selling us flashy skins, you know, like the way the game was originally designed and the way Anet originally promised us they would monetize the content.

But clearly, based on the last few responses, you all think it’s totally fair play that participants in a gamemode that requires a relatively level playing field should have to open up their wallets and pay $30 to use a shield generator, or to glide from OL into OW.

Considering your nasty responses to me and how a vast majority of the GW2 community views stuff like this to be perfectly fine, I won’t be running on the ground or left in the dust because I’m uninstalling.

Cya.

Malpractice.7850:

Sorry that you’re poor, but, don’t take it out on all of us that enjoy the new content while you twiddle yourself worrying about wvw only and an hours worth of work in money.

It has nothing to do with being poor. $30 is a trivial amount.

What matters to me is voting with my dollars, and in this case, I feel that buying expansions like these only incentivizes Anet to continue to carve up the game and design it more and more in a manner that funnels people toward P2W kinds of purchases (and rationales for why buying features XYZ is okay).

Thanks to the few who get what I’m saying. To the others that just equate what I’m saying to me being poor or complaining about Anet trying to make money, just keep drinking the kool-aid. You’ll have your p2w paradise in no time.

I preordered the core game at launch because, back then, it was sold as a very different pay model and approach to design. Watch reviews by somebody like AngryJoe, they specifically talk about the novel approach to “buy to play” and the total lack of level/gear-grinding. Since then, Anet has backtracked on many promises over these past several years.

I guess since people will keep paying to have the game carved up and the community split more and more into haves and have nots, Anet has no reason to stop this money-grubbing approach to designing their expansions. This is why I won’t buy the expacs, not because I’m too poor as some of you wrongly assume.

And those of you who say this isn’t the right game for me, I guess you’re right. I actually stopped playing MMO’s for a long time until GW2 came along because I was so burnt out on the rehashed designs and emphasis on endless grinding and cynical money-grabs. I only bought GW2 because of the novel way they did pve and dynamic events, the wvw, the way it was possible to get to lvl 80 with exotic gear relatively easy (and be fairly competitive if you had a good build and were skilled). They promised us back then that we wouldn’t be spending all of our time on a gear/level treadmill and that we wouldn’t be paying real money for core features of the game (just for cosmetic or convenience items). So much for that!

Now that HoT has already driven away a lot of people who share my sentiment, Anet are even bolder in releasing another expansion that worsens the problem. And the sad part is, most of the players who remain don’t care because they’ve got their shiney new feature, so tough for those like me and we should all forget what Anet promised in the past and what initially drew some of us to play this game. It was a very different approach to an MMO (and monetizing an MMO), but now it’s just another waiting-game until you can buy the next expansion for the new gimmicky feature. In a few more years, it will only be a question of who can open their wallet fast enough when it comes to progression and achievements in this game.

I still remember how messed up it was when HoT came out that they gutted all the achievements and hard work smaller guilds had put into their guild upgrades. Now, the studio that told us we wouldn’t be forced to grind endlessly in gamemodes we didn’t enjoy required that we grind for tons of mats to upgrade our guild halls (upgrades we had already unlocked). I contributed a lot to help upgrade (again) the small guild I’m part of, and I can’t even enjoy 80% of the guild hall features because I’m a non-HoT player — except to look around and click stuff and be told I can’t use this feature until I buy HoT… Of course they let me do that. ;-_-

It’s clear to me most of you won’t hear what I’m saying, choosing instead to make personal attacks and call me poor, but my thanks to the few who actually understand what I’m trying to say. I guarantee you that Anet won’t change their course though. They have their core audience of people who are willing to pay for this stuff and don’t care if it alienates parts of the customer base. They want people like me gone.

The sad part is, I would have spent a ton of money over these past few years if they actually stuck to their initial promises and approach to monetizing the game. But after I saw how they neglected wvw changes and improvements for so long, and then released HoT, I haven’t been willing to put another penny into this game. PoF has only hardened my heart more, especially with the inclusion of gliders in WvW.

Best of wishes to those of you who keep playing. I will try a few more times, but every time I WP to Overlook and have to jump off the cliff and take fall damage and run into OW while my HoT teammates glide into the tower above me, the tastes grows ever more bitter.

Balthazzarr.1349:

As for pay to win… this game isn’t pay to win.. unless you count buying gear, mats, and so on, like you have to do in pretty much any competitive game etc.

Explain to me how I can unlock shield gen use and gliding by just playing the game?

I have to pay real money to use these features, features that are important in the one gamemode that I care about: WvW.

If I don’t pay $$$ to gain access to these features, I am at a disadvantage and a less useful teammate than the people who do.

When OW is under attack from an enemy blob and all the people who bought HOT can just glide into the tower while those like me have to run into it and get beaten down, explain how I am not less competitive than HOT owners?

When a tower is getting trebbed or hit with catas and I’m the only one in it, invulv tactic is already used, and I can’t use shield gen to buy time for my teammates to come and man siege and help, how am I not less competitive than a HOT owner?

I’m all for supporting devs and games that deserve it, but besides a scant few features, HOT was almost all PVE content that I simply have no interest in. I simply can’t justify buying an expansion pack just for 2-3 features that effect a gamemode that has been (more or less) static since the release of GW2 (i.e., WvW — with the exception of the desert BL being added with HoT, which was largely an unpopular change).

If there was a way for me to use ingame gold to buy gems and then unlock shield gen mastery and gliding that way, I wouldn’t have such a problem with this. But there’s not. I must pay for an entire expansion to use a glider, or a shield gen, or new class or elite/mastery.

Explain to me how it is not pay2win/pay4advantage that people who buy the expansion have access to vital features in a gamemode like WvW while those of us who don’t pay $20-$30 don’t?

Again, if these features were unlockable somehow in game, even if it was VERY grindy and time intensive to do it (incentivizing paying real $$$ instead), I would be singing a different tune. But, it’s not like that, and every person like you and all the others who just gravitate toward the shinies of gliders and guild halls and mounts at the expense of the broader gaming experience damages the game all the more (and emboldens Anet’s choice to nickel and dime us like they are EA or Ubisoft).

Finally, they PROMISED us in the beginning that this game wouldn’t be about grinding, that real money transactions would merely be for cosmetic items, that we wouldn’t be nickel and dimed to death. Here were are several years later and if you want to use core features of the game in a competitive gamemode (like wvw), you have to buy some B.S. expansion packs that are 90% pve content.

Balthazzarr.1349:

The adage that you “get what you pay for” is a very true one. If you want the perks that people spend a LOT of money creating for people to enjoy then expect to at least pay for some of them.

After all is said and done all I can say about gliding is THANK YOU ANET. Now THIS is a blast!

^ And this is everything that is wrong with the current generation of gamers.

You guys love your pay2win nickel and diming b.s.

I would gladly pay to support a game that, at its core, was fair and equitable in how it’s designed.

When GW2 released, they promised us it wouldn’t be grindy or employ this type of cynical cash-grabbing incentives for people to pay for advantages. Now that they broke that promise and all the unabashed fanboys like you just lap it up like good little dogs, I’m done.

Enjoy a game where more and more, they carve everything up and bleed the players dry because that is what you guys are paying for. Your money and sycophantic “THANK YOU” are just more evidence for Anet that what they are doing is okay and their fans don’t mind.

finkle.9513:

I dont understand what gliding “adds or improves” WVW, there are a lot of things that would improve WVW, i wouldn’t have put adding gliders in that list.
I would like a ANET response to actually state why they decided this?

Quite simply, it’s just another prod to get those of us who haven’t bought HOT yet to finally pay up.

It was bad enough that we couldn’t use shield gens in wvw, or have access to new classes/elites/masteries, but now here’s everybody gliding all around us while we remain grounded like the second class citizens Anet deems us to be.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Gliding

The War Gliding Mastery is available to those who own Heart of Thorns

Yet another example of how you punish those of us who won’t buy your crappy HoT expansion.

We are playing a gamemode that does not require an expansion pack to play in any of the maps and has NEVER required an expansion pack to play in any of the maps, but you want to use vital skills and abilities in WvW? Better pony up the money and pay for HoT or you will just be weakened more and more relative to other players who pay 4 skills.

First, you lock away Shield Generator use from those of us without HoT. Sure, we can “use” the item to keep the siege refreshed, but we can’t actually use ANY of the shield gen skills (and they are very important pieces of siege in wvw).

Now, you add insult to injury by leaving us grounded while HoT-owning teammates can just glide into structures while we have to run on the ground and get zerged down like a bunch of plebs.

The more vital skills you put behind a paywall, the more the gamemode becomes P2W. This is a gamemode that is (more or less) totally divorced from the content of the expansions. But, still, you link vital skills to those expansions and screw those of us who refuse to support your choice to carve up the game into walled skill gardens that require $$$$ to access them.

Now, more than ever, I won’t pay for HoT or the new expansion because I fundamentally disagree with how you willfully kitten those of us who refuse to buy your stupid p.o.s. expansions.

More and more reasons to quit the game again. Anet as a company has NO RESPECT for those of us who just want to wvw. It’s bad enough we don’t have access to new classes/elite skills/masteries, but now no shield gen use or gliding either. Lame.

F U Anet. P2W game sucks my ….

Simply put:

People get tired of having to fight endless blobs with a ragtag zerg of 30 pugs while continously being a$$jammed by two gvg-centric guild groups who have queued the map.

Even numbered fights are fun. Slightly uneven fights are fun. Lopsided fights where there is maybe a 10% chance of victory and 90% chance of wiping are not fun.

All servers and timezones who overstack and mercilessly blob down their opponents will reap what they sew.

The sad reality, however, is that most people find pvdooring and blobbing down outnumbered pugs to be more fun than a pitched battle, so nothing will ever change until the game mode becomes an utter wasteland and the last few standing blobbers wonder where all the fodder for their facerolling went….

Quit playing WvW? More like I’ve quit playing the game in general.

WTB GW2 back the way it was w/out this HoT b.s.

Josh Davis.6015:

There’s some cool ideas here, folks. I’ll pass it along to the team.

I have another idea for you to pass along to the team: FIRE WHOMEVER THOUGHT UP THIS GOLEM EVENT (if I’m not mistaken, it was you, wasn’t it?)

This event is bad and you should feel bad for crapping all over the WvW playerbase.

Also, fire the idiotic dev who said that people don’t “only wvw.”

If they turn out to be one and the same person, then even better: two birds with one stone!

Actually, since Interstelleria just released, thanks a ton Anet. Glad to have an excuse to stop playing your crap game and spend my time elsewhere playing something that’s actually cool.

Whoever thought this was “fun” needs their head examined. This golem event is the most poorly thought out “event” I’ve ever seen in a game. Shows zero forethought or consideration of the playerbase.

more like end it now kitten

Holy kittene, turn this gimmicky event off. Not fun and all and clearly a sign that Anet has jumped the shark. Seems like they want to give us every reason to quit the game. Getting tired of your b.s., Anet.

Hey, Anet… Zennimax (and I) appreciate all the extra time you’re giving me to try ESO for the next 7-14 days. Thanks!!!

I’d rather WvW in GW2, but if EoTM-only and ESO are my two choices, then I guess I get to see how good/bad WvW is in ESO.

I like how this restriction coincides with that game’s release. That’s some great timing! XD

Kysin.6349:

Chest Thumping to Tears, A Sanctum of Rall Story.

Coming to a thread near you this fall, don’t miss it!

Bad Start to Buying the Win, A Blackgate Story.

Already well established in many threads, you can’t miss it!

This week is just amazing as far as how balanced and intense it’s been.

It sucks on one hand, because a random scrub roamer like me finds it harder to be useful amidst all these hard fought battles.

That said, it’s amazing to sign in at any time of the day or night and to be able to find intense fights within a few minutes.

It’s awesome that the score is so close too.

“The suspense it terrible, I hope it will last!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oci1CuCht7E

Decklan.7540:

…and the arms race is still going strong.

“We must be increasingly on the alert to prevent them from buying more guilds, in order to cover more maps than we do, thus knocking us out through superior numbers when leagues emerge. Mr. President, we must not allow a server coverage gap!”

http://youtu.be/kuPh6TfK4iY?t=1m22s

(Clip from Stanley Kubrick’s “Dr. Strangelove: Or… How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the BLOB”)

Liquid.9672:

You’re welcome to your opinion of course, but in my eyes, just because a group doesn’t adhere to your views on reset day protocol it doesn’t make it wrong.

Looking for fights is one thing; ganking, griefing, and emoting laughs and cheers when you keep repeatedly seeking out and wiping a handful of SOR players who are stuck in queue (and trying to mini-karma train in peace while waiting to join the main SOR train) is another thing entirely…

This means you, to the tryhard [omen] and [ND] who kept hunting the 10+ SOR that were trying to karma train in SOR BL last night.

To the 30+ of you who were doing kitten like hiding as we ran into bay, and then wiping the 10 of us as soon as we hit the lord (spamming laughs and cheers for such an honorable “fight”): FU

GekoHayate.2451:

Sigh.

Open field versus Keep defense. We are talking about different things.

There were plenty of open field fights.

I know “repelled” implies only keep defense, but there were several instances where the fighting moved to open field, and at the time, Choo (plus a few other SOR players… i.e, in no way a “collective”) outplayed superior numbers. Yes, there were many times TW (and a lot of other guilds) covered that BL and that’s not what I’m talking about… For the times it was primarily Choo keeping things green, they were countering everything you guys were throwing at them.

Of course, you don’t know any of this because you even admit:

I was not online for 2 days during NA

Finally…

Choo did well? I never said they couldn’t do well.

Okay, fine.

I was trying to be modest and respectful, especially since I was more of an outside observer, but… if you insist: They kicked hiney and took names. Happy?

…

FWIW, this was a week full of action and lots of close calls. I really appreciate the good fights that both BG and TC brought. Thanks.

ANY BG saying Choo is easy to roll is insulting their own server.

I was in TS over the past few nights and was listening in (sometimes fighting) while Choo repelled countless attempts by BG to retake BG BL Keep.

From everything I saw, BG was fighting with a lot of server pride and tenacity, but Choo + friends held and held and held (and then even almost took BG’s EB keep during a prolonged offensive on that map).

To those who weren’t logged in when that happened, and who just want to talk trash to Choo (who did some yeoman’s work this week): Stop denigrating the efforts of the players on your own server.

BG was not being being half-hearted in their fights, especially not last night/this morning (PST); but more times than not, Choo played well.

If you disagree with that, then what does that say about the BG who weren’t able to wipe them?

Smokee.1754:

I can only talk for EU and EST, but in these timezones we´ve seen more than a doubled amount of SoR forces compared to what we are used to see. Even though BG have had more people out aswell, the difference in pure numbers has just grown to big.

Maybe it’s double SOR forces, but I think it’s more of a combination of things:

1) a reduction in your numbers (from MERC’s depature)

2) an uptick in SOR numbers as more casuals/fair-weathers join the “easy” fight

3) a downtick in the number of BG PUGs (and even guilded players) who are willing to stick it out, despite the odds, because it’s been a relatively “harder” fight this week and they’ve given up.

Those three things have made for a very tough fight this week for BG. I don’t count them out though, or conclude they’re imploding (like ppl like to do with JQ all the time), but I do hope SOR curb checks you a few more times before this week is up…

Last night was a lot of fun on BG BL… Thanks to all the SOR who kept things lively and fun in TS, even for those of us just standing in hills staring at the snow.

It certainly was a rough night for BG. I respect those BG who stayed in BG BL and kept fighting us. [EE] guild in particular stuck it out and continued hitting whatever they could when there were hardly any other BG on map. [ND], [PLX], and [OnS] were also in map with sizeable forces later on, after we completed garri WP, but at that point it was too late and there wasn’t much they could do against those upgraded keeps. Still, it was obvious BG either just gave up entirely, or they are sorely missing [MERC]…. Probably a combination of both.

Which leads to something I hope SOR leadership bears in mind: If BG is truly missing [MERC], then we should be very mindful of how much stronger JQ is going to be the next time we face them. Maybe the difference one (or a few) new guilds makes won’t be substantial, but [MERC] not being there (in full force) certainly looked like it has hurt BG in a big way. I’m really looking forward to seeing how much stronger JQ is now.

Anyway, thanks again to the SOR who kept things fun and to the BG who kept fighting even though it wasn’t your night. I felt particularly bad killing the Necro [DEAD] at orchard because, even though he had to run from an earlier ruin fight against me, he still stood and fought me that second time (even when it became obvious he was going to die). I would have /saluted you, but your attack surprised me so much that I was too busy spinning the camera around looking for your friends.

Make SMC a giant costume brawl arena.

Fiercest Quaggan horde gets free cookies…

Krakah.3582:

It’s the ultimate plan to force players into PvE.

Trahearne is final boss.

Watch out for his “talks endlessly” and “steals the spotlight and takes the credit repeatedly” attacks.

They’re devastating and you might just have to give up…. I did! \(ToT)/

Madam Pomfrey.4162:

I think the golem used to test WvW malfunctioned and gave wrong results when testing.

Inconceivable.

All Asuran technology is a true reflection of its inventors: Flawless! Absolutely 100% flawless!!

If there’s a problem with the testing golem, blame the boneheaded bookahs who surely mucked up the golem’s programming. This kind of screw up is what happens when you go cheap on IT support… Hiring the services of a genius doesn’t come cheaply, after all. If it would have been a dedicated Krewe coding for WvW, we’d have private commander tags, no lag, and close match-ups by now….

Poor Anet, forced to rely on overgrown kittehs, lettuce-heads, and humans for their daily operations. Cut them some slack, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link(s).

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

@ The random dude saying [OnS]laught laughed at something random…..WUT

@ The guy who replies to a post that’s over a day old…. WUT

To clarify: A Charr Guardian [OnS] laughed at a small group of SOR when he got away from us after a failed BG (and TC) attempt on Bay (I think this was TC BL)…

Bored, I kept pursuing him into Battle’s Hollow and he turned to fight me like the bookah he is… I don’t blame him though, because I was a STAFF ELE after all, and we all know Staff Ele’s are “easy bags”….

Even so, it was too bad for him that I kited him to the point that he looked ridiculous and neither of us were making any headway (i.e., stalemate), so he gave up and started running away again (and I laughed b/c it’s not often ANY class runs from me, a staff ele, when it’s 1v1).

It was only then that 10+ BG showed up out the tunnel and facerolled me…. and naturally, he decided to stand there and laugh because, like I said before, he was too much of a scrub to handle a staff ele 1v1….

In conclusion, for [OnS] scrub guardians, a 10v1 facerolling of a staff ele is a sporting fight.

Well done, Charr Guardian [OnS]! A Winrar is you!

BG [OnS] = where it’s sporting to laugh at 10+ of your friends killing a staff ele b/c you’re too much of a scrub to do it by yourself.

Wrex.6798:

And as for IRON killing the Dolyak Parade, you can blame me for that, when I was a kid my Uncle ran a Dolyak farm which I visited every weekend. One visit I was out walking his prize show Dolyak ‘Dolly’ when the beast turned around and took a bite out of my side. This experience has left me with a hate for all Dolyaks, and naturally when I heard in map chat that the Dolyak Parade was started I saw red. I think everyone involved knows what happened after this….

That Doly took a bite of you
But you can’t let that make you blue
#DWBH \(;^,^)/

RE: GvG and DOLY parades…

It’s too bad that some don’t see the value of this kind of emergent gameplay.

I, for one, really enjoyed stumbling upon a GvG match a few nights ago and it was a refreshing change of pace to join the other spectators on the sidelines as TC’s [RE] and SoR’s [TW] duked it out. I think the people who say “just go sPvP if you want GvG” don’t get that GvG is as much about the spectating and the sense of community it creates as it is about the actual fight. And though I’ve never participated, I think the DOLY parades are also a nice example of emergent gameplay and I’m glad people take part in it.

With that said, participants (of both GvG and parades) just need to expect and accept that “super serial” players aren’t as open-minded to that kind of stuff and some might even find emergent play/metagaming repugnant. Plus, just as we all have a right to put on costumes and run around a pvp map goofing around, other players have every right to turn trolling our event into an event of their own and attack the yak parades, or GvG fights, or whatever….

In other words, “emergent gameplay” works both ways, and if you want to enjoy what it has to offer, you can’t fault others for playing the game as they see fit as well (whether they pursue a “by the book” approach or actively work against what you are trying to achieve).

TL;DR — Don’t worry. Be happy.

torridstoic.7492:

Miss Firesss.3704:

At the time they were using them at Briar, there probably weren’t many people on the map and they were just messing around. Most of us left around 1am PST.

How dare you? We would have wiped the map if they hadn’t been hacking. Honest. That golem push should have been unstoppable. (golems are srs bsns)

Yeah, I wasn’t around when Bay and Garrison fell (logged in just after it happened), but I was there to help repel the attacks on Hills, and then to witness the weird late night “golem rushes” against briar.

I figured it was just madness and I knew they were probably doing it because the golems were going to be forgotten/wasted anyway, but it was still pretty strange and convinced me PD drinks heavily on the weekends…

P.S. Since when is standing on Briars’ walls and raining meteor shower down on 4 golems (with no other forces protecting them) hacking? I guess my apologies are in order because that fireball in one of baghaven’s pictures is mine…

/reports self for hacking ;D

torridstoic.7492:

I found golems tonight! So we decided to blitz NSP’s map and paint that kitten green.

All I want to know is wth you guys were smoking when you tried that stunt, and for that matter, what were all the other DH players doing later that night that led to such weird attempts at briar?

They kept bringing the leftover golems out as the night wore on… and there was no sense or purpose to it. Was some pretty strange stuff to watch o_O;

At one point, one of PD kept asking us to take pictures with the golems (sorry that two straight out killed him, but at that point, most of us were tired and not in the mood for pictures)… What can I say? The blood all over our clothes from many DH deaths made for a less than ideal picture.

Still, destroying your golems was a much preferred way to pass the night vs. your previous annoyances (endless battles with what seemed like a mini-mesmer/thf army). Must say, it got old fast to have to keep fighting you guys, but that’s primarily because I suck ;P

….

Seriously, though, guys… don’t smoke whatever PD is passing around. It will take you down a road to ruin that none of us want to travel.

If it’s indeed collusion, then that’s normally bad form and must take some of the fun out of WvW for the two who gang up against the one. At least it would for me. I mean, what fun is such a lopsided matchup unless pvdoor is what ppl enjoy…?

The only exception is if one server is dominating points and the two weakers ones realize their only hope is to stop fighting each other and to fight the points leader. In that case, the dominant server is normally more than able to defend (and even attack) on two fronts…

And then, there are times it’s just a lucky coincidence (or unlucky, depending on which side you’re one). Sometimes what seems like collusion is honestly just dumb luck.

Finally, once in a great while, it’s the result of well-planned meta-strategy, but most servers view WvW like “checkers” instead of “chess”, so this kind of scenario is much rarer: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/77216-corons-guide-to-diplomacy-the-2v1-and-you/

kurtosis.9526:

snip

/signed

Of all the things in WvW I enjoy least, being penalized for trying to do the right thing tops the list. This is a prime example of that.

It doesn’t seem right that the core support people on a map are often left out of the rewards, only then to enjoy some salt in the wound by watching all of their hard effort and money disappear because their zerg is halfway across the map and people would rather try to retake camps that have RI up for 3min vs. saving a tower (and possibly having to pay repair costs if they wipe).

Honestly, we all know that the game mostly favors zerging and flipping towers endlessly, especially with how the rewards are set up. The people who buy upgrades, escort yaks/etc. only do it because they’re stubbornly good-hearted, I suppose. Definitely gives you a taste of “nice guys finish last” syndrome…

Finally, it makes you feel downright stupid sometimes to forgo the fun and rewards of mindlessly taking towers vs. staying behind to sink gold, time, and supply into towers that will flip anyway after the enemy zerg so much as looks at them funny.

I realize this is maybe not such an issue on some of the “better” WvW servers, but it certainly sucks the life out of WvW’ing when you’re on a server that struggles with maintaining coverage and where a majority of the people, unsurprisingly, have decided upgrading and placing siege in your holdings just isn’t worth it.

Unfortunately, the best response at the moment is to take screenshots/fraps it, report it (even though that is likely pointless), inform people in your BL it is happening and that they shouldn’t rely on supply, and then man up and play through it.

I personally try to think of it like a negative random event that happens from time to time (i.e., “a spy has spawned in your keep and wasted 200 supply”), but it does suck and it’s unfortunate when players do it because you know that there is a thinking person behind the keyboard who is choosing to be antisocial.

Most of the time, the person doing it is likely a troll/griefer just looking for attention and to ruin your day. It was good you didn’t say their name or post screenshots here, in fact. It’s fine to tell ppl in your map that so-and-so is wasting supply though, but don’t feed the troll or give them publicity here.

And, yeah, honestly… Pinko has a point. The only thing that really prevents ppl from doing stuff like that is a social contract between players. Not everybody is going to conform to those rules and it is very hard to stop people from violating the intended design of the game.

Of course, there are rules against players engaging in activities that disrupt matches (which supply wasting definitely qualifies as), but the manpower and time needed to enforce that kind of a rule makes it very unlikely you’ll see anything done about it. If you want that kind of support in an MMO you play, your best bet is to build a time machine and go back and play UO or Meridian 59 when they first launched. Not that I agree, just saying what I think the reality is at the moment… ;P

I don’t get what the reading comprehension problem is. uA is not my guild and I was certainly not calling them babies (???). I was saying something was obviously off for them to try golems in a break out event, but adding that they are not a scrub guild (I have fought with them before and they normally have their stuff together). But, like you said, I wasn’t there, so I guess I didn’t realize how close it really was (and the amount of time you had been fending off attacks). Sorry.

It just seemed to me like it was pretty lop-sided because they had no counter to your siege and a lack of people on the ground. Personally, I wouldn’t have gone to the trouble to post something like that video, but I realize now that I shouldn’t rain on your parade. If you guys enjoyed yourself and are having fun, more power to you.

Btw, I did say you guys were using siege and AOE’ing. If I forgot to mention siege, apologies. It’s just I didn’t think that doing that was that exceptional because that’s just how you protect gates and is precisely why golems are a less than ideal option for breakout events.

Anyway, I did not mean any hate. Honestly. My problem was with reactions to the video and to saying those kinds of reactions are all good because it’s celebrating like when one team beats another in a sporting contest. It doesn’t come across to me that way. That’s all.

We obviously disagree on that point and I’ve said my piece, so I’ll leave it at that if you guys will. I’m very anxious to get back to IoJ and fight this out. Screw talking. And I die…. a lot, and in very stupid ways, so I’m sure any of you who care will be able to have the last laugh and “celebrate” some victories over me very soon.

See you out there… :P

iBludgeon.1538:

Wow. Why don’t you personalize it and embellish a little more, none of us really cared that this happened, we moved on to the next campaign after this.

>“none of us really care that this happened”
>“we moved on to the next campaign after this”
>none of us really care
>we moved on
>previous page of this thread = post from your side with video that calls attention to the topic, then follow-up posts about it

That’s moving on? Um, okay….

And yeah, as others pointed out, I didn’t make any such comparison about beatings or whatever, but if that’s what you get out of what I wrote, it’s all good.

I actually think it was a fine video and agree with the initial follow-up posts that mention it just shows the vast range of skill that exists on IoJ (and indeed, all worlds). My problem is when it went beyond just discussion of that nature and turned into gloating. It was only a few posters who took that tone and I ignored it until you tried to justify the “celebrating” with the sports highlights comparison.

However it came to be, the IoJ players in question in wombat’s video invariably found out how not to do breakout event. They were probably goofing around, trying to do something unconventional, and/or test something out and it blew up in there faces. Or they didn’t know any better.

Still, that is what in sports is called a “blow out” and it was nothing special in that all you guys had to do was man your siege, beat them back from your tower a bit, then AoE the golems down. All I was trying to say is that “celebrating” something like that is pretty poor in taste and acting like celebrating a video of it is okay because of sports highlights would be the equivalent of a professional team tearing apart a team of amateurs and then recording it and some of them think it’s fine to “celebrate” as they watch it because it was a sports “contest”, after all.

I brought up a fictional 6 y/o nephew to make the point that sometimes defeating an opponent who is not your equal is nothing to take pride in. You can congratulate your side for a quick and effective response (and critique opponents for their foolish mistake), but your choice of words (“celebrating”) and the tone of a few posters is precisely why that video came across so poorly. I appreciated the posters who were objective and pointed out it was a bad fail, but that it did little more than showcase that there are some IoJ players and guilds who know what works and some who are still learning….

Anyway, this is drama so I will stop. Sorry. I did not mean to personalize, I really just don’t think you are giving a valid comparison though. Even in professional sports, when two teams are clearly unevenly matched and one team blows the other team out of the competition and humiliates them, it is rare to see the winning players exuberantly celebrating. Maybe in a play-off/championship match. But seldom ever in a regular season game, which is exactly what that breakout event was.

PS—I’m sorry to see we lost 1st. I am scouting T1 to see what, if anything, I can learn there and now I realize we didn’t have things quite as locked down as I thought when I switched. My hope is that a lot of IoJ’ers were resting because we had taken a lead and they will show up to shut down CD. Good luck, IoJ^^

iBludgeon.1538:

Mif.3471:

wombat.6123:

IOJ’s golem rush

So a bunch of players, with clearly no WvW experience, decided they were going to buy some golems, thinking that would give them god mode. The inevitable happened and they failed miserably.

And you take that as an opportunity to sling mud at IoJ’s dedicated WvW playerbase?
The amount petty rubbish that comes out of some people here is astonishing.

Is a bit of respect and sportsmanship too much to ask?

If you watch sports highlights and one team beats another, do we consider it disrespectful to the losing team to celebrate victory? I think not, your assumptions are as silly as asking for blind respect for foolish actions.

Um, sorry, but your analogy is crap.

When sports teams are EVEN and it is a good match up, then celebration for a victory is fine. But if you were to have a professional team annihilating a bunch of 6 year olds in a game, and then running around celebrating and giving each other high fives for such “pwnage”, then it’s clear how unwarranted that kind of celebration is.

In other words, you guys are patting yourselves on the back and lol’ing about how dumb IoJ was because you made a bunch of WvW noobs look bad. You must be sooo proud of that kind of an accomplishment. ;P

FYI, the people who look poorly here aren’t the fail IoJ’ers, it’s those who think so highly of winning such a lame, one-sided fight.

“Hey, I just beat my 6 y/o nephew in basketball! Better make a video of his humiliating defeat and celebrate my ‘victory.’”

Epitome of classy, guys :/

P.S. uA is no scrub guild and this might have been training, could have been miscommunication, or who knows what. Still, the only laughing I’m doing as I watch your video is that things are going so poorly for you that this is the kind of “victories” you have to point at to feel good about yourself. How sad.

Hekatombaion.4320:

There are a lot of defensive tactics that CD just isn’t picking up. I’ve seen a few of us doing them, generally coordinated guilds, but we’ve got fairly large gaps between those when it’s just a commander running around with whoever they could scrape together.

In large part I think a lot of our commanders have just stopped trying to do defensive work because when they do tell people to run supplies to repair a gate there’s only two players doing it.

Then you need the players who are respected on your server (sometimes including your better commanders) to lead by example and model the behavior you want to see from others. After all, why should your world’s players be willing to forgo fun if the people asking for them to stay behind can’t be bothered to stick around…?

If vital jobs aren’t getting done and people aren’t willing (or able) to accept the importance of doing them, your leadership’s first objective should be to model the behavior willingly and often to hammer home the point that repairs must be completed, defensive siege replaced, etc. Leadership that tells people to do something and then leaves them to go off with the zerg and PvDoor sends the wrong message entirely. A leader (or a couple of well-known/respected players) must announce in chat that they are tackling the boring task and ask for help. Be positive about it too. Let people see you staying behind while the zerg runs off to glory (and a likely wipe, half the time…). Don’t act like it’s some huge sacrifice, just another step along the path to… (-charlie sheen voice-): “WINNING!”

IMO, it just doesn’t work to ask people to do things that we ourselves will not do. In fact, it’s super important for even some of your best frontline leaders to show their willingness to run supply for repairs/siege building, and to show this willingness repeatedly. This doesn’t mean the whole zerg has to do it, this doesn’t mean your best players spend their every moment in game doing menial tasks, but it does mean that at times when it can be noticed (and often enough that it is no one-time fluke), some of your best players should be the ones to stay behind with small repair teams while the zerg leaves to capture stuff.

If these players are the ones staying behind and doing the little things, it sends a much stronger message to everyone than telling people to do something ever would. It takes time for people to catch on too, and it’s always far from perfect, but it does start to make a difference.

Expect to be frustrated, bored, and alone often, but it does help change things for the better (gradually!). ;D

ryan.3915:

I think all WvWers need to:

1. Carry siege and supply. When under attack, build a cata to repel rams!

Or, better yet, have the cata (+arrow cart) already built before any such attack, and have dependable people refreshing siege at your various towers so it doesn’t despawn. Building as the door is already getting hammered loses you some precious splash damage that often destroys rams of poorly organized zergs before they’re even built….

2. Commanders can lead the zerg to supply, and bring it back for repairs. I have seen TC and IOJ do this immediately after fending off attacks, and their walls and doors quickly repaired to 100%. If you politely ask ‘can someone repair the walls?’, no one will respond. Neither will anyone stay to repair when they know you are off capping profitable structures.

Again, “lead” vs. “ask” is the key.

Asking implies you are leaving people and going off to do the fun stuff, in which case, why complain that people aren’t staying behind when you’re not even one of the ones who stays? Being an active solution to the problem is the first step to getting broader help in solving it.

It’s more productive to just say, “I’m staying behind to repair this gate/wall/build siege/whatever. Need some help please!” and be grateful and good humored to those who stay behind. Then when you complete your task, say in chat “Repairs at Tower XYZ complete, tyvm to all who helped!!!” or something like that and continue about your business.

Do this kind of stuff consistently, be first in line and publicly eager to do it, and your random players will start pitching in more and more often without prompting. The sooner people grasp the importance of repairs, healthy supply lines, and the force multiplier that defensive siege provides, the better off we all are.

If it matters to Anet (which I doubt it does), I have screenshots of the same guild (different character name) doing the same exact thing in IoJ BL-Dreadfall Bay and EB BL-Lowland Keep. I took multiple screenshots, reported them for “scamming” (couldn’t decide what was the best reason), mentioned it in chat so others were aware, and a few others reported the player in question as well. Maybe I even posted something about it in a different thread, but hard to remember.

I decided not to post any screenshots though because the guild (and player(s)) in question boast about how they are exploiters/trolls/kittens/etc. As we all hopefully know, it is best not to feed the trolls… so things like screenshots and complaining sometimes serves as attention (and free publicity) for this guild. (My former troll self is even paranoid enough to wonder if you’re just one of them who is tasked to drum up interest for your guild by posting this, Toxic Root, but I know that we’re all friends here, right? ;D )

That said, I don’t think there is anything wrong with taking screenshots or posting them here. People should be aware this is happening so that, at the very least, those of us who are playing don’t count on supply being there (even if it should). I would still suggest that we just report these people, keep the screenshots (and post sparingly, if possible), and avoid speaking about this guild by name or giving them any of that direct kind of exposure. Trolls love attention and if we just kinda accept this supply wastage and know it might happen, then they will get bored by our lack of hysteria.

I have already started to think of them as a negative random event that happens in game from time to time. When I see them building pointless siege, I just think “NOOOOO! the SUPPLY WASTERS just spawned… why now of all times!?” True, we might lose because of it and that will suck, but at least then it will still feel somewhat like playing a game. Just a game you lose. Unfairly. Because companies in this industry stopped investing in GM’s and real customer support long ago. But that’s another rant for another time… and I’m not bitter… not one bit… :P

To help in not letting it ruin your fun, just remember this kind of stuff is stupid and they’re just lamers who get off on cheating and throwing sand in people’s eyes. IMO, it’s a boring exploit and is pretty lacking in creativity (I remember people talking about this pre-launch, though this is the first time I’ve seen people actually bother). I just don’t get it… it’s so much work and trouble for so little true grief and misery. We lose most of our stuff in WvW anyway because the PUGgles fight endless battles for nothing while the world crashes in around them. Do they really think wasting supply even comes close? They are being outdone by our own lack of organization in various timeslots.

Looking at their website and in-game behavior, they come across as some kind of cheesy axis of anarchy wannabes. If wasting supply to make us waaaah is fun to them, whatever… but what a boring way to spend your time (and potentially $30-60). Real great trolling, that… You give Anet money, they let you waste virtual supplies in a virtual competition, and all of it has absolutely no bearing on anything. Hmmm…

Q: Who’s trolling who again?
A: Anet’s trolling us all… ;D

Fun match-up (;^_^)