Guild Wars 2

Hi im Schnas a Revenant player from [BoRP] Bunch of Randomn Players, A hardcore WvW zergbusting and GvG guild, here to give constructive feedback on the renegade in terms of Organized group WvW combat. Renegade has some Issues that i think are easy fixes to make the new specialization a valid option over traditional condition Rev or Power Rev in WvW.

Shortbow

3 – Only hits 5 people IN TOTAL so you target cap out on people before all the
arrows meet at the end
-Solution Make each arrow hit 5 people separately , it deals next to no damage
other wise.

4 -Not a bad skill damage could be buffed but my biggest problem is that its AoE
is too small for having to wait nearly a 1.5 seconds for it to land, and it falls behind on
where u wanted it
-Solution Increase AoE size from 240 to 360 or higher , AND/OR decrease cast
time

5 – At first glance a good skill for WvW but you have to aim
it through character facing when not targeting an enemy right in front of you – Solution Make it aim like Dragon Hunters Longbow 3 ,also could buff the damage a bit too for the 20 energy it
costs

Renegade Utilities
I know Renegade is more of a PvE legend and i dont mind leaving it that way but I think some energy costs could be dropped nothing insane but maybe by 5 across the board could help make this a viable support / dps role in WvW , though even then I doubt this Legend will be used in WvW.

F2 Skill
Cool Team buff but too much energy for 5 or 10 might, when might is so widely available through all other classes
-Solution Decrease Energy to 15

F3 Skill
40 ENERGY 40 WHY 40 NO 40 BAD 40 PLZ, This skill does nowhere near CLOSE to the damage needed for it to be worth 40 ENERGY Also its a projectile so it can get blocked / reflected very easily so 40 energy is absurd to ask for the current state of this skill.
-Solution In its current state ,slow cast time and low damage make this skill free 0 energy or like 5 , OR Make each projectile make the whole AoE pulse with damage each time a projectile lands and still drop energy down to 20 on that version.

F4 Skill
I like this skill and think it could make Renegade a trait line to pick up for a WvW group but once again energy cost is too high though the utility is amazing.
-Solution Drop energy cost to 20

Traits
I think the traits are the redeeming quality of renegade Kalla’s Fervor is cool ,though it kinda sucks it’s only possible to get on yourself , maybe a GM rework ?

Ideas – Make Vindication , GM top trait, give Kalla’s Fervor to your allies when using F2 ability Heroic Command as well , since Citadel Bombardment is pretty weak in itself.

Although Renegade is a PvE focused Specialization I think it could add some unique utility to WvW if some of these changes were implemented, love to hear what others Ideas and critiques on some of my changes or some you would like to see,

Make Renegade Great for Once
-[BoRP] Schnas

P.S Feel free to Message me in game about Renegade or Rev stuff, love to talk Pce

The WvW meta has changed to a more melee orientated builds on all classes but hammer Rev is a good mix for range fights and can hop into the melee with staff full marauders and if u need toughness swap in some cavs still works very well something like this
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnfN2gSuJvQRJlbosjyPU4S5IKor8ElFNFSdG34HtFIAPwegJshA-TliFQBIU5h62fQfHCgqoEEAXAg8dEASwDAAd6Cwn6PMRJWAAEgbezs5NDcezbezbezzNv5Nv5NvZpAycnF-w

You should definitely look at swapping mallyx for either glint or dwarf , condis are gonna be a big problem for you in most Zerg fights and the resistance helps not only u but ur party. If u use Mallyx Dwarf u can roll front line easily cuz u have Rite of the great dwarf which is one of the best Buffs u can have in zergs and is great support for your party but costs a lot of energy so u need to have good energy management to still output good damage , Glint Mallyx is more of a offensive midline dps with the fury uptime and more energy to use on skills in glint. Sigil of Absorbtion and Draining are optimal on staff because staff 5 is a great cc, on hammer sigil of fire is good and maybe energy as a little defensive or force for straight up more damage. Your armor is a little low for full frontline try and bump it up to at least 2700 to start and if ur finding it easy to survive drop off armor for more marauders. Trait wise u wanna pick up retribution instead of invocation and run middle top middle or middle middle middle. Then it’s up to you if u wanna run Invocation or Devastation tho recently Devastation is more used for the middle grandmaster Fismantle Fortifications because of hammer CC and Staff CC can be devastating but if u want straight up more damage can still run swift termination

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Mug can’t be used 4 times a minute. At best steal is on a 21ish second cooldown. Mug heals for 1980. I should not have used SR for Shadows Rejuvenation as it seems to have caused confusion.

It can, it’s 20 sec cooldown.
sec 1 mug, sec 20 mug, sec 40 mug, sec 60 mug = 4 times

Maugetarr.6823:

It seems that this has caused you to go from talking about shadows rejuvenation versis mug to shadow refuge versus mug.

What?
Yeah well,I was comparing these two traits – that’s legit, I think as most thieves use mug and call Shadow Rejuvenation OP

Maugetarr.6823:

Leaving shadow refuge out of this since it’s not adding to the comparison of the traits, if you keep stealth uptime in a fight at around 1/3 of the time, Shadows Rejuvenation will offer a greater heal per second (or minute if you prefer).

No, I think SR is really important and I know no thief who isn’t using it.
And without SR a SA thief wouldn’t work as it’s the main source of healing. That’s why it’s in the calculation. You don’t have enough inatiative as a D/P thief to stealth that many times, you can’t hit with CnD that many times to make up for the lack of SR.

Maugetarr.6823:

In addition to this, the assumptions made in this argument are that you steal exactly when it’s available while not attempting to stealth whenever possible.

The same goes with peoplecalling SA “OP” they make assumptions – it doesn’t work out like that in a fight.

Maugetarr.6823:

Including the trait that gives you an extra second of stealth, you can safely backstab after 3 seconds of regen and easily maintain 50% uptime of stealth. Moreover, if you miss the backstab window (either by choice or counterplay ) you can CnD again which will raise your hps since you don’t have to wait for revealed.

True, it’s about 1,5 k healing max each time, given that your CnD doesn’t miss -you know opponents can dodge. If talking about a D/D thief, the stealth time for D/P thieves is shorter (if using black powder only once).

Maugetarr.6823:

I’m not arguing that shadows rejuvenation is op, I’m pointing out that the potential healing it has in theory and practice is higher than that of mug.

No it isn’t, sorry. But I made a mistake in my calculation, that was why I came back to this thread:

SR heals: 2100
Mug in 1 min: 8800, with sleight of hand, without 6600

SA only D/x thief 5 times stealthed (+ SR)
Heal in SR: 7050 (insg)
5* (1 s) : 1650
5* (2 s) : 3300
5* (3 s) : 4950

Mug with sleight of hand and SR: 10900
D/x 5*2 s and SR: 10350
D/x 5*3 s and SR: 12000

Although pulses are a weird thing anyway, so sometimes I have 5 pulses when stealthed for 4 s, sometimes I have 4.

So even in the best scenario the max a D/D thief traited in SA would get is: 13650, that’s 2750 more than one with mug and sleight of hand would get, with the difference that the mug thief also does around 6k damage during that time (actually ~10 k damage if the poison isn’t cleansed – maybe I should use mug)

My point is that SA isn’t “OP” not even if you compare it to other thieve’s skills – I hope that point came across.

Edit: Made this calculation for a friend and had to cut the German parts out

The thing you cannot calculate for is conditions. Every class you face will output some condition and when u can clear a 5 sec burn that ticks for let’s say 500 damage per sec that’s 2500 health that SA just took out. And when you don’t run in SA let’s say a 26006 d/p you take the full brunt of that damage. Also the fact that you think a thief a)Hits every steal which is often not the case and b)that health gained is actually used which can be said for both sides but considering you stealth a lot more than you steal so the health gained is ACTUALLY gained more when u stealth than steal. You just can’t calculate how Mug gives more health than SA.

Bump Cuz why not

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