Showing Posts For ShadowKain.9410:
i am very sad to wake up to this news. I am downloading now in hopes to get right on druid to test things, now I wont even bother with it… ok lets make a revenant
There isn’t even any reason to creating a Revenant. Unless of course you’re keen on going through the 1-80 level grind again, in addition to the 400 point Elite Spec grind, in addition to the gear grind (most likely manifesting in the form of a gold-sink), in addition to the mastery grind, in addition to-
…you get the point.
I’m calling it: CTD
Someone call the nurse.
Aaaaaand now, all of the Sylvari suffering and succumbing to “Mordremoth’s call” and the events surrounding them make abso-fracking-lutely no sense at all.
Assuming we can use Southsun Cove as an example (as, in regards to Anet creating content that is specifically designed for grind, it is rather similar) the answer is: No.
This ship is sinking and most of the players that loved Guild Wars left a long time ago. The rest of us will be leaving soon as well. I’d say the rats should flee the sinking ship, but Anet has them all hooked up to Skinner Boxes.
I’m a straight PvP player / WvW roamer. Druid is precisely what we needed in our profession toolset.
We always lacked meaningful team support/utility, and now we have it.
Druid has some bugs, and some skills that aren’t perfect (vine surge, unity glyph) but this is a step forward for our profession, and I think that it is a very well thought out elite spec.
I see alot of people complaining that druid is too support-ey and lacks damage. I understand where those people are coming from, but as Irenio said, if you’re looking for heavy offense, you probably shouldn’t be running the Druid spec.
Elite specs are supposed to open up new combat options and playstyles for that class (see druid, scrapper and dragonhunter) not be flat out upgrades to the class (see reaper and herald)
This is constantly re-hashed on the forums, however, take a look at turnout for the Elite Specs. Player favorites are Revenant, Reaper, Daredevil, and Tempest.
Of these, Revenant is its own class, and therefore irrelevant in the Elite Spec “purpose” discussion. Reaper is not a new combat option/playstyle for the Necromancer. Thematically, Necromancers have always been aggressive and already have two weapon sets designed for up-close combat. Even since GW1, Necromancer was a favorite among melee classes and other damage-dealers for it’s dark magic damage and life-stealing ability. Reaper is not a new playstyle, it is an expansion on the class and it’s already existing capabilities. Daredevil is almost entirely dodge-mechanic focused, again expanding on the pre-existing playstyle of the Thief class. Tempest is a PBAoE Elementalist with animation flair, but more-or-less the same in regards to overall playstyle.
The rest of the Elite specializations are either largely marginalized and considered relatively mediocre, or polarizing in nature, such as the Druid – which ham-handedly forces an entirely new playstyle on the Ranger that has virtually zero synergy with the other trait lines. With a small minority loving it, a small (but larger than the first) crowd that absolutely hates it, and a majority that are ambivalent but agree the class needs re-working.
At it’s announcement, Anet made it a point to mention Druid early alongside HoT, making it clear that the Druid would be plant-based, not Celestial with only one plant-based skill, the vine attack from the trailer, a re-skinned Earth Ele Eruption, and a terrible pustule plant proc.
Returning the Druid to what it had been announced as, and turning it into a truly plant-based spec that enhances and expands the class as a whole (like the other specs) is what Rangers desperately need.
Save the Celestial mechanics for a future class, because I am genuinely a fan of the Celestial theme and skills. Just not for use on a Ranger Spec – they do not fit.
There’s a ton of fluff in that post.
Sure, mock my post instead of address it. Also, implying that you didn’t even read it.
I predicted exactly what Druid would be 4 months ago, with the only clues being that it was called ‘Druid’ and wielded a staff, simply by looking at our core traitlines and asking myself what we are missing.
So you made a prediction and happened to get it right? Well, that’s great, but it has absolutely nothing to do with what we’ve been talking about, so I fail to see the point in why you bothered to say this at all, besides wanting to get attention and change the focus of discussion rather than address what I have explained to you.
Again, as my original post quite clearly stated – elite specs are not supposed to ‘fit’ the stereotypical gameplay of the class. They are supposed to, as you quite aptly put it, expand.
You’re merely re-defining words to fit your narrative, and shifting the goal posts.
To expand a thing presupposes, and requires, an established and defined starting point from which to continue forward.
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
Thanks for the tremendous amount of feedback regarding the Druid. I’ll be modifying swaths of the druid (and scrapper) to fix bugs and account for your feedback this week and reviewing things like glyphs effectiveness, celestial avatar skill differentiation, astral force charging rates and some of the staff skills.
In general the Celestial Avatar form’s base heals feel a bit too high and heal coefficients didn’t feel rewarding enough to go with healpower stats. The heals themselves seemed to be working at decent values, so I’ll be tweaking the base heals down and coefficients up some in order to better reward selecting healing power stat combos as a druid.
Translation: “We’re sticking with the rushed and poorly planned healbot, rather than properly develop a thematic Druid and admit that we poorly managed our time.”
Perspective: Rangers need better treatment. Players deserve the “very plant based” Druid they were told they would receive. I genuinely enjoy the Celestial theme, but it should be stripped from the Druid and applied to a future new class. It simply doesn’t fit the Ranger. Fix Druid into what it was meant to be, and save the Celestial mechanics for a better planned and developed class. Everyone gets something they want, and no one is ostracized.
The druid doesn’t exactly contradict the lore
It neither supports nor contradicts it, this is a moot discussion.
However, there is no precedent for a Celestial theme for the Ranger class. Let me give you some perspective:
Reaper picks up a greatsword and applies his already existing necromantic magics to amplify the greatsword.
Tempest picks up a warhorn and applies his elemental magic to amplify the use of the warhorn, sending elemental magic along sound waves (a stretch, to be sure, in the physics department, but I can forgive this – it’s a game.)
Guardian picks up a Longbow and amplifies its use with light magic.
Warrior gets enhanced adrenaline and some fire magic (which falls into place with the magical sphere warriors exist in, see: Balthazar)
Do you see where I am going with this?
Ranger was slated to get plant-based magic (falling into place within their magical sphere – Melandru) and instead gets… astral magic? Ranger has absolutely no precedent for wielding this magic whatsoever. This does not have to directly contradict the lore to be a problem, as it feels out of place to anyone with a vested interest in this game’s narrative (ie: The players that will stick with this game once the rest of you jump ship for other games)
and, if GW druids are anything like real life druids, a celestial theme is even better than a pure plant theme.
Tyria isn’t our world. Please stop drawing parallels with it.
Also, while I won’t get into a discussion about druidic history on a Guild Wars 2 forum, your statement is based on a very basic understanding of druidism that takes a great deal out of important context.
The problem is that, of all the elite specializations, druid seems to be the most limited in build variety and role versatility. You get a little bit of mobility and cc support and, if glyphs are buffed out of their current anemic state, maybe some limited offensive support…but it still looks like a druid without healing power is going to be less potent than one with healing power, and that is going to hamstring druids in >95% of the game. By contrast, reaper and scrapper (for example, I’m sure other new specs can as well) can both go tanky with celestial and still deal decent damage, or they can go power, or condition. That’s three different build paths that they can take, and still be extremely effective. How many such paths can the druid take?
Wholeheartedly agreed here, aside from (perhaps) that being the only problem.
mostly positive, but quite a few improvements are needed.
secondly, we are in DIRE need of core profession adjustments (old weapons, traits, utilities and pets), perhaps moreso than needing any druid improvements.
I wholeheartedly agree. I think the Ranger could simultaneously receive core adjustments whilst bringing the Druid in line with synergy with the other trait lines and expanding the class’s horizons.
Win-win.
I’m a straight PvP player / WvW roamer. Druid is precisely what we needed in our profession toolset.
We always lacked meaningful team support/utility, and now we have it.
Druid has some bugs, and some skills that aren’t perfect (vine surge, unity glyph) but this is a step forward for our profession, and I think that it is a very well thought out elite spec.
I see alot of people complaining that druid is too support-ey and lacks damage. I understand where those people are coming from, but as Irenio said, if you’re looking for heavy offense, you probably shouldn’t be running the Druid spec.
Elite specs are supposed to open up new combat options and playstyles for that class (see druid, scrapper and dragonhunter) not be flat out upgrades to the class (see reaper and herald)
This is constantly re-hashed on the forums, however, take a look at turnout for the Elite Specs. Player favorites are Revenant, Reaper, Daredevil, and Tempest.
Of these, Revenant is its own class, and therefore irrelevant in the Elite Spec “purpose” discussion. Reaper is not a new combat option/playstyle for the Necromancer. Thematically, Necromancers have always been aggressive and already have two weapon sets designed for up-close combat. Even since GW1, Necromancer was a favorite for dual-classing with melee classes and other damage-dealers for it’s dark magic damage and life-stealing ability. Reaper is not a new playstyle, it is an expansion on the class and it’s already existing capabilities. Daredevil is almost entirely dodge-mechanic focused, again expanding on the pre-existing playstyle of the Thief class. Tempest is a PBAoE Elementalist with animation flair, but more-or-less the same in regards to overall playstyle.
The rest of the Elite specializations are either largely marginalized and considered relatively mediocre, or polarizing in nature, such as the Druid – which ham-handedly forces an entirely new playstyle on the Ranger that has virtually zero synergy with the other trait lines. With a small minority loving it, a small (but larger than the first) crowd that absolutely hates it, and a majority that are ambivalent but agree the class needs re-working.
At it’s announcement, Anet made it a point to mention Druid early alongside HoT, making it clear that the Druid would be plant-based, not Celestial with only one plant-based skill, the vine attack from the trailer, a re-skinned Earth Ele Eruption, and a terrible pustule plant proc.
Returning the Druid to what it had been announced as, and turning it into a truly plant-based spec that enhances and expands the class as a whole (like the other specs) is what Rangers desperately need.
Save the Celestial mechanics for a future class, because I am genuinely a fan of the Celestial theme and skills. Just not for use on a Ranger Spec – they do not fit.
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
Thanks for the tremendous amount of feedback regarding the Druid. I’ll be modifying swaths of the druid (and scrapper) to fix bugs and account for your feedback this week and reviewing things like glyphs effectiveness, celestial avatar skill differentiation, astral force charging rates and some of the staff skills.
In general the Celestial Avatar form’s base heals feel a bit too high and heal coefficients didn’t feel rewarding enough to go with healpower stats. The heals themselves seemed to be working at decent values, so I’ll be tweaking the base heals down and coefficients up some in order to better reward selecting healing power stat combos as a druid.
Translation: “We’re sticking with the rushed and poorly planned healbot, rather than properly develop a thematic Druid and admit that we poorly managed our time.”
Perspective: Rangers need better treatment. Players deserve the “very plant based” Druid they were told they would receive. I genuinely enjoy the Celestial theme, but it should be stripped from the Druid and applied to a future new class. It simply doesn’t fit the Ranger. Fix Druid into what it was meant to be, and save the Celestial mechanics for a better planned and developed class. Everyone gets something they want, and no one is ostracized.
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
Had hopes for Druid but its too unpolished at the moment for me to want to play it in HoT; just look at the amount of feedback given already. Adjustments to astral force generation, staff/avatar skills, traits/glyphs, base healing and healing coefficients, pets, ui/animation visuals, etc. will need to go through several iterations before the Druid feels polished and not so gimmicky as it does to me at the moment.
That is a long list of things that need to be worked on and Anet already probably knows it judging from their silent treatment on these core issues. The easiest thing for Anet to do at this point is to say, “Sorry, we tried our best to making a viable healer spec but now that HoT is live, we’ll be making small changes to Druid as with all the other classes but will need to focus our attention on other aspects of the game such as bugs, raids, and other new features in HoT.”
This means that one of the more challenging elites to balance/refine is going to suffer from core issues that will plague the class for months/years to come.
I have nothing to back this up but my speculation is that Anet released Druid last during twitchcon because 1) it wasn’t ready before then 2) would help with marketing for twitchcon/HoT 3) they could sweep Druid under the rug upon HoT release since it proved too difficult for them to properly address a healing elite spec with balance in mind. A win for Anet but a loss for Rangers.
Sadly a loss for Rangers, among a very long list of losses for Rangers.
I feel as though the dev team was largely playing musical chairs with the Elite Specializations, creating a confusing fustercluck whereby a player wanting to play a certain playstyle at the higher tier will initially create the character most sensibly tied to that playstyle, only to find out that the class is turned completely around at the higher tiers.
Revenant → Guardian (Elite Spec) – Thief
Guardian → Ranger
Thief → Dodge Mechanic
Ranger → Water Ele
Elementalist → Mesmer w/ Warrior shouts
Mesmer → Wells Necromancer
Necromancer → Warrior
Warrior → Fire Ele/Guardian
Engineer → Hammer Warrior/Spirits Guardian
I’m a casual player and I’m loving the Druid so far.
I’m glad you’re enjoying yourself.
Sure, but that’d mean a feature from HoT would have to be cut in order to make up the lost development time. Is that something you could live with?
Yes. We keep the massive Bristleback, and you can keep the Druid.
So, judging from the poll, the overall consensus seems to be that the Druid needs more work and doesn’t really function in its current form.
The rushed idea of a healing ranger specialization is simply not viable. Ventari Revenants out-heal the Druid, Water Elementalists out-heal the Druid, even a lazy guardian out-heals the Druid. We do not need another healer, least of all a sub-par healer (even when specced fully into healing, with the entire specialization being almost nothing but healing with virtually no damage potential).
The Druid needs a new form. I think the turnout for Druid means that a lot of people were looking forward to this overall concept, so for it to fall flat on its face would be a huge disaster.
ArenaNet, please put the Druid back in the oven – it’s not quite done yet.
What follows are my personal suggestions for a very broad theme that can incorporate some of what the Druid currently is, with aspects that I think the Druid should have had from the start (and, I think, some aspects we were all expecting).
1.) Condition Cleanse
Currently, there aren’t very many condition-cleansing options within the classes. Each class has some cleansing capability, with some more than others, but what the entire game lacks is a very specific condition-cleansing option. Players can choose to focus on healing, boons, condition application, DPS, tanking, interrupts… Nearly everything but condition removal. The closest we can come (to my knowledge) is a shout warrior with Trooper runes, and Elixer-Gun Engineers.
Make condition cleanse a major theme. Make use of Ranger’s nature theme, make use of the bursting plants you made (slow down the animation, by the way) and add more plant-based skills focused on cleansing conditions as part of their effect. This will allow them to be a good fit for a lacking game mechanic, and a good counter to Necromancer’s deathly conditions. While Guardians provide healing and soothing, Druids provide cleansing anti-toxin magic.
2.) Crowd-Control
Now, I know there is a very vocal group that points out Ranger’s knockbacks and how infuriatingly hated Ranger’s CC ability already is, and these points are quite valid. That said, the Druid can make use of roots, entangles, vine-walls to control movement, positioning and line-of-sight (a feature other classes/specializations do not have). Imagine creating a vine wall that naturally acts to block/obstruct projectiles and line of sight for a duration, possibly even being a movement-obstruction, giving Druid’s the opportunity to directly interact with the living world and bend it to their will, temporarily morphing the world around them.
Summon large roots from the ground to immobilize/cripple foes as a staple, providing steady harassment while the Druid’s pet(s) and allies maneuver to make the kill.
Perhaps incorporate taunting into the Druid’s repertoire. In-tune with nature, the Druid is capable of turning enemies into temporary allies. Perhaps create a mechanic for the Druid allowing them to pacify certain creatures, or convert “yellow name” creatures into semi-permanent allies (ie: They can still be killed, and there is a limit to how many creatures can be enthralled).
These suggestions can offer Druid a truly unique play-style like the other specializations offered.
3.) Damage Potential
Ensure that the Druid is capable of dishing out steady damage. Not heavy damage, but steady damage. Fantasy Druids are not combatants. They are generally more-or-less pacifistic in most ways, handling conflict through their connection with nature, rather than directly. As such, make the primary interaction with the world/enemies be crowd-controlling while dishing out steady but reasonably low damage while pets and allies make up the difference.
And finally,
4.) Lose the Celestial Mechanic
It feels completely out of place from both a mechanics perspective as well as a lore perspective. There was no good precedent for this and it feels like you were so desperate to make something “unique” that you failed to realize that incorporating Guild Wars nature into the Druid concept was already unique. Take a look at Melandru, the patron of nature magic (while she is a god only to humans, she is still inherently linked to nature magic) and realize that she is very unique by virtue of taking the standard Druid/Dryad/Treant concept and applying just enough Guild Wars spin on it. Druid does not need a celestial theme, and is simply better off without it.
In closing, I want to re-state that these suggestions are entirely my opinion and nothing more. However, I’ve been a huge Guild Wars fan ever since participating in GW1’s beta-testing and being summarily fried to a crisp by Gwen. I love this game and I want to see it succeed as a long-term goal and not just a short-term one. Maintaining narrative consistency is important to that end.
I actually quite enjoy the Celestial theme, and would love to see it make a return some time in the future, just not for the Druid.
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
What are your thoughts on the Druid specialization? Do you like it? Do you dislike it? Do you love it? Do you hate it?
Should the Druid be improved? Is it just fine the way it is?
I didn’t know that the sun and moon weren’t celestial bodies.
Really, you’re going to be that guy?
That’s just sad.
Best to just ignore and report the trolls at this point. Ad hominem, sarcasm and thread-derailing. This community really has become a cesspool.
This is an elite Ranger traitline (colloquially referred to as a “specialization”) that happens to be named “druid”. Even if “Druid” was a class in Guild Wars 2, how that class plays would be entirely dependent solely on the development of Guild Wars 2, not on other games.
Agreed. However you are basing your definition of a Druid on other games or lore since there is no basis for a Druid in this game. As such, the developers have the freedom to create new lore, which it seems they drew influence from our understanding of this world, is, the one the developers live in.
As for saying it is a ranger specialization, that was addressed in my post already
Regarding real-world lore, none of it is relevant, even in the slightest, when discussing Tyrian lore.
[/quote]
Druid, within the scope of Guild Wars has two possible meanings at present. First, there are the ancient “Druids” that transcended into spirit form. Their story is so vague and undefined that nothing can be said about them for certain. Unfortunately, fan-boy trolls love to bring them up as justification for the celestial mechanics that there is no escaping talking about them. These people cherry-pick pieces of speculative lore and then twist them to suit their own needs. If we’re even going to bring them up, we should either assume the speculation we know about them is true, or it is not true. To cherry pick is to be spinning an agenda and nothing more. My stance has always been to use all of ancient “druid” speculative lore if we’re even discussing them. I would prefer we ignored them altogether, since practically everything about them is vague, or outright stated at in-lore “speculation”.
The second possible meaning of “Druid” is the Ranger elite specialization. Regarding this we do have a great deal of lore to go on, and can begin to define this trait line that simply happens to be called “Druid” using things we know to be true about Rangers and their capabilities. The most important of these being that Rangers have never, at any point until suddenly, been associated with astral/celestial mechanics (when defining those terms using only Guild Wars lore) in any way, shape, or form.
Nature is directly influenced by the positions and alignments of celestial bodies, sorry to rain on your qq parade, but it does make sense. The celestial bodies give us things like the solstices and seasons, sunlight/moonlight, tides, etc. A lot of those things are represented with the Druid. The Druid has plenty of skills that are plant influenced and they are all nature oriented.
That’s just plain wrong on two accounts. Firstly the “celestial bodies” have precisely no effect on the Earth whatosever, only the sun and moon affect us.
Secondly, just because planets and stars are natural, doesn’t mean they are part of nature. That’s equivocation at best. The usual definition of nature, the one that’s being used to describe druid and the one that people mean when they describe nature religions in the real world, is the natural world of the Earth specifically. Wildlife; flora, fauna, weather patterns. This is the same definition being used for druid in GW2 since the fantasy druid is a romantic fiction based on real-world nature religions.
To say that the planets and stars fit in to theme is to say that engineers should be able to build cars to ride around Tyria. It’s equivocation. As I’ve said in a previous thread, if Druid has space-mage mode then elementalists should have Atomic bomb mode because uranium is an element.
Nature is universal, it is not only Earth related, nature is the representation of the physical universe, to say that nature is only earth related is just like saying that there is only life on earth on the universe. Druids had rituals concerning the sky and celestial bodies, ever heard of stonehenge? the druid you are speaking about is the conventional Post D&D druid which has nothing to do with the actual Druid in our history and even so, the druids that we come to know, the real ones we don’t know much either only vague details because the information about the druids are based on accounts of some reports writen by Julius Caesar when he started to conquer the northern isles and even so the romans back then tended to exaggerate a lot when conquering new regions and people.
…and I think you will find that we’re not discussing Terran Druids, we are discussing Guild Wars, Tyrian druids, so bury the constant earth-lore in the ground with the rest of the relics. We’re discussing Tyria, not Terra.
The nature magic aspect may fit a Ranger, but this is a Druid, different idea. As much as I can tell we don’t have a basis for a Druid in this game. In other games, druids are very nature-centered, ie Diablo 2, Everquest, etc. but in reality Druids are very celestial-oriented. The solstice celebrations are pagan/Druid celebrations all revolving around the locations of the earth/sun/moon, all celestial bodies, and the most mainstream famous Druid structure is Stonehenge, again, believed at this point to be very celestial focused. I think a celestial theme fits Druids very well.
Rangers are a base, focused on nature. If Druids are sort of advanced, or ascended Rangers, then it makes sense to me that they expand beyond the immediate nature of their surroundings and focus on the larger nature of the universe.
Just a thought
This is an elite Ranger traitline (colloquially referred to as a “specialization”) that happens to be named “druid”. Even if “Druid” was a class in Guild Wars 2, how that class plays would be entirely dependent solely on the development of Guild Wars 2, not on other games.
Regarding real-world lore, none of it is relevant, even in the slightest, when discussing Tyrian lore.
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
Nature is directly influenced by the positions and alignments of celestial bodies, sorry to rain on your qq parade, but it does make sense. The celestial bodies give us things like the solstices and seasons, sunlight/moonlight, tides, etc. A lot of those things are represented with the Druid. The Druid has plenty of skills that are plant influenced and they are all nature oriented.
This ^ very true, some people need to read on Druid history and realize that they had rituals concerning the moon, the sun, the harvest, etc etc
Some other people need to read Tyrian history and realize that this is a discussion about game lore, not Earth lore.
Actually Kain, there is no actual detailed lore about the druids in Guild Wars actually, we know that they became one with nature but we don’t know what they were before that, read this please. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Druid-is-a-lore-mess/5528239
Devotees of Melandru that shed physical form. Not at all dissimilar to pretty much all humans at time of death/transcendence. Astral/celestial is not synonymous with spirit/ghost related in Guild Wars lore context. Furthermore, if a Druid ascending to spirit form to eternally exist within the natural world makes Druidic magic (ie: the magic of Melandru, ie: the magic of rangers) astral/celestial, then every single profession/class should be given astral mechanics, because there’s a ton of spirits wandering the physical world, choosing to remain bound there for one reason or another. Druids as described are nothing more than nature liches in spirit-form.
Ever played factions? i think you should, secondly, why would you assume that Astral/celestial doesn’t have anything to with death? you are making an assumption based on nothing practically, the wiki page has nothing to prove your point either and is not a main source for pinpointing deep lore about this game. the final point is that there is actually nothing about druids, how they lived before they became stewards of Maguuma, we don’t know what they practiced, their lives, their ceremonies, nada.
I’ve played more of that game then you, that is for certain. It’s also irrelevant, so can we stick to the pertinent points, please? Perhaps you didn’t read quite carefully enough, so I shall re-post to re-educate:
“Furthermore, if a Druid ascending to spirit form to eternally exist within the natural world makes…”
Not the word if. I was speaking hypothetically, using your claim/view. Even if ascending to spirithood is magically astral/celestial, there are a number of spirits eternally bound to Tyria for reasons not related to nature magic, thus meaning that either all of them, or none of them are connected to astral/celestial magic. You’re pointing to one case of a spirit and claiming that that particular spirit conveniently validates the Druid specialization’s celestial theme, ignoring the countless other spirits that would *in*validate it.
You ask why I do it, and then outright imply that I am doing it to be special. Which is it? Do you not know or are you resolved to thinking I do it for attention or to be special despite having absolutely no basis to state that as fact? I explained why I use italics for my font in an earlier post, but will do it again here: I use italicized font because it pleases me. I customize my font for the same reason others customize theirs when the option is presented on forums; Customizing font type, size, color, layout, signature, etc. are all part of a forum-user tailoring their text to suit their preference. As for you not liking it, I really don’t care. Reading terrible grammar is an eyesore for me but I feel no need to mention it when I see it unless it’s coming from someone going out of their way to tell me to change my text to suit their needs.
Your not customizing text, you make it totally unreadable for regular user. Bold, italic is support fonts that are required to indicate stress or emphasis. Communicating is dialogue, understandable for both sides. And English is not my native language, so i make up for it in short sentences, which carry a maximum sense.
You can easily understand my message, even with grammatical errors, even ignore it totally and don’t answer, but i can hardly read this blurred text, no matter how much meaning did he have.
Forum format text is not for “pleasing” one side, it’s support instruments for understanding for another.
Care to join in derailing the thread over any other pedantic, petty nonsense? I’ll dress my text up in MLA format when formatting a business document, not when I am carrying on casual text conversations with petty, pedantic peasants.
Before anyone’s brain explodes, that last bit was done purely for the [insert gasp here] desire to make an alliterative quip.
What I write and how I write within the context of a forum is done purely for my own enjoyment (perhaps you should educate yourself on the roots of the word forum). Why I write is something I occasionally question, particularly in situations such as these, but generally the why is to convey my thoughts to those interested in hearing them. I generally assume those uninterested will bugger off, but the internet has a way of bringing out the true hypocrisy of the human race.
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
Nature is directly influenced by the positions and alignments of celestial bodies, sorry to rain on your qq parade, but it does make sense. The celestial bodies give us things like the solstices and seasons, sunlight/moonlight, tides, etc. A lot of those things are represented with the Druid. The Druid has plenty of skills that are plant influenced and they are all nature oriented.
This ^ very true, some people need to read on Druid history and realize that they had rituals concerning the moon, the sun, the harvest, etc etc
Some other people need to read Tyrian history and realize that this is a discussion about game lore, not Earth lore.
Actually Kain, there is no actual detailed lore about the druids in Guild Wars actually, we know that they became one with nature but we don’t know what they were before that, read this please. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Druid-is-a-lore-mess/5528239
Devotees of Melandru that shed physical form. Not at all dissimilar to pretty much all humans at time of death/transcendence. Astral/celestial is not synonymous with spirit/ghost related in Guild Wars lore context. Furthermore, if a Druid ascending to spirit form to eternally exist within the natural world makes Druidic magic (ie: the magic of Melandru, ie: the magic of rangers) astral/celestial, then every single profession/class should be given astral mechanics, because there’s a ton of spirits wandering the physical world, choosing to remain bound there for one reason or another. Druids as described are nothing more than nature liches in spirit-form.
Nature is directly influenced by the positions and alignments of celestial bodies, sorry to rain on your qq parade, but it does make sense. The celestial bodies give us things like the solstices and seasons, sunlight/moonlight, tides, etc. A lot of those things are represented with the Druid. The Druid has plenty of skills that are plant influenced and they are all nature oriented.
This ^ very true, some people need to read on Druid history and realize that they had rituals concerning the moon, the sun, the harvest, etc etc
Some other people need to read Tyrian history and realize that this is a discussion about game lore, not Earth lore.
Nature is directly influenced by the positions and alignments of celestial bodies, sorry to rain on your qq parade, but it does make sense. The celestial bodies give us things like the solstices and seasons, sunlight/moonlight, tides, etc. A lot of those things are represented with the Druid. The Druid has plenty of skills that are plant influenced and they are all nature oriented.
As I have mentioned multiple times already to others equally incapable of reading before posting, you’re describing our nature, not Tyrian nature. Astral, celestial, and nature are all words that have different definitions in the context of Guild Wars lore. Stop describing our world to justify poor game decisions, as it is just as ludicrous as describing a game world to justify poor life choices.
I agree that the druid does feel rushed.
Also considering how Anet refuses to get rid of rangers pets as it is part of their core mechanic, they could have done something really interesting with said pets (for example have a set of staff or profession skills that would have interacted with pets differently from shouts) instead they added a simple healer shroud. Aren’t shrouds supposed to be the unique profession mechanic of necromancers ?The theme and the mechanic seem incoherent hence I question if Anet didn’t rush the Druid to meet release date.
Maybe you didn’t notice, but celestial form is TOTALLY different from necromancers shroud. The resource bar doesn’t work as a second health bar. It seems like you are not able to go in celestial as long as you have some resource, you need to have the full bar. You can still use your utility skills.
Just because you are transforming into another state doesn’t make this a shroud.
It’s a comparison. The impetus for the mechanic is clearly Death-Shroud-driven. No other class has a build-up-and-activate-for-unique-benefits-during-the-duration class mechanic. For a Necromancer, the special benefits are a degenerating second health bar and special skills. For Ranger, it’s enhanced normal-health-bar regeneration skills. So, instead of a constantly draining pool of extra health with new skills and no access to utilities, you get extreme normal-health-bar healing abilities and other new skills, plus your utilities. Sorry, m8, but the two are more alike than you want to admit in your pedantic need to argue over semantics instead of mechanics. I’d end by saying “apples and oranges”, but you’d probably tell me they’re the same fruit.
I agree that the druid does feel rushed.
This Druids celestial shroud does not fit the theme of Guild Wars 1 Druids but is more akin to Guild Wars 1 Factions Closer to the Stars. Are Druids and being Weh no Su the same ? Following the Scrappers inconsistency with Charr lore, I am starting to question if the development team at Anet knows the lore of Guild Wars. To quote Ruby Mayer from Point of Interest, the developments teams main source of lore information is Woodenpotatoes.
Also considering how Anet refuses to get rid of rangers pets as it is part of their core mechanic, they could have done something really interesting with said pets (for example have a set of staff or profession skills that would have interacted with pets differently from shouts) instead they added a simple healer shroud. Aren’t shrouds supposed to be the unique profession mechanic of necromancers ?
The theme and the mechanic seem incoherent hence I question if Anet didn’t rush the Druid to meet release date.
I don’t usually watch Points of Interest. Do you happen to know which episode it was that Ruby said this? If true, that news is extremely depressing. I don’t mean to slight or insult WoodenPotatoes, as he does run a neat channel, but there are far more lore-savvy community members, and relying on just one person for your facts – even when that person is an expert – is a horrible, dangerous idea.
I think that’s a huge barrier between people like you, me and a few others, and the rest of this toxic forum. There are some of us that know the lore intimately, and with that knowledge we can say from knowledge and experience that these skills simply do not fit with the magical affinity that Rangers have in lore. Put simply: They should not, and could not possibly wield this kind of magic.
Can you stop using full italic text in your posts? It’s painful to read this massive amount of text with that curve, really, why you do this? It’s not make you special, stop it.
You ask why I do it, and then outright imply that I am doing it to be special. Which is it? Do you not know or are you resolved to thinking I do it for attention or to be special despite having absolutely no basis to state that as fact? I explained why I use italics for my font in an earlier post, but will do it again here: I use italicized font because it pleases me. I customize my font for the same reason others customize theirs when the option is presented on forums; Customizing font type, size, color, layout, signature, etc. are all part of a forum-user tailoring their text to suit their preference. As for you not liking it, I really don’t care. Reading terrible grammar is an eyesore for me but I feel no need to mention it when I see it unless it’s coming from someone going out of their way to tell me to change my text to suit their needs.
4. “Waahh it’s not nature-themed!”
It couldn’t be more nature-themed. Celestial (i.e. of planetary bodies – of which the Earth itself is one remember), heavens, spirits, influence on nature of the earth – it’s all interlinked thematically. It brings a brilliant, unique flavour to a nature-themed profession and it looks good too.
Since it’s fantasy, it depends on the setting. For example, in D&D stars and other planets are linked to the Far Realm that produces abominations, and are opposed to natural world.
…and this is the concept that the fan-boys can’t seem to understand. Our natural world is not theirs. In Tyria, astral/celestial themes were (in the very beginning) mostly undefined, and the realm of scholars and academics, with some implications that Mesmer magic, being chaotic and raw, was outside of the usual magical constraints and possibly mists-related (the mists being the closest approximation to another dimension/celestial mechanic at that time). Then, the ritualist was developed and their abilities were more mists focused, and the mists and their realms became more defined. “Celestials” were introduced in Factions, which were mist-born entities *similar to the Human gods and Norn spirits.
The word “nature” in the context of Guild Wars lore, has a specific meaning. A meaning that is different than the one it has when used to describe our world. To see the domain of nature magic in Guild Wars, check out Melandru.
I dont think that Druid is poorly designed, I mean, in fact it has one of the more competitive and well desgined skills and traits of all the specs. Also, staff skills have some relation with plants, they look like roots and mushrooms and stuff like this. It doesnt feel at all as this spec was rushed.
I’m glad you enjoy it. The problem for me is that only three of the Druid’s skills are nature-based (nature here being defined as “earthen” nature, which was always the magical affinity from which Rangers derived their non-martial powers).
The vine skill, which needs some work, as the “chunks” of vine being created and sinking into the earth looks terrible (which is a qualitative assessment based on subjective opinion). It looks, to me, like plastic toy vines popping up out of the ground, static, and sinking back in again shortly after. They do not feel natural, or alive to me. They took the animation that generates rock spikes in the line progressing outwards, and simply converted the jagged rocks into vines. Well, the animation works for rock spikes, but vines erupting from the earth are a cohesive entity. Look up the attack of the trees from Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian or the attack of the vines from Maleficent. Or just hop into Mordremoth territory or use Ranger’s “Entangle” or a Sylvari’s racial root, and see the natural eruption of vines that then wrap around their target, or move like a living entity. To have little vine segments that do not move or operate in relation to the other segments pop up like pieces to a toy set, as part of a skill animation looks absolutely terrible to me.
The jagged vines/wood/bark skill, which is just the Earth Elementalist’s eruption skill, which actually looks alright, but it’s a shame that it’s nothing more than a very obvious reskin.
And finally, the exploding seed skill. This one actually looks amazing to me, and I am glad the Druid got this skill. You see, these three skills represent what the Druid, from a lore perspective, should be. An elite specialization built around this “earthen” nature theme, with similar magical abilities based on plants. That’s what nature magic is in Guild Wars. Melandru is the human god representing nature magic, and she is, essentially, a treant/dryad. Very tree and plant magic, with a natural connection to animals (which the Ranger has through the pet system). That “nature” magic was clearly seperate from, say, the “earth” magic of an elementalist. An elementalist could manipulate raw “earth” itself, not the living things of the world, which was Melandru’s (ie: nature magic’s) domain.
The sudden thrust of astral/celestial magic onto ranger doesn’t make sense. Astral/celestial magic was never part of that magical domain. The Celestials, a GW1 entity, were entities hailing from the mists, similar to the human gods and the Norn Spirits. Magic tied to the Mists was generally associated with Mesmers the most, and then Ritualists when they were developed. The first human to force his way into the mists was a Mesmer. Their brand of unbound magic, magic not tethered to any of the other magical aspects, tended to have connotations with the mists, which is the domain of the astral/celestial.
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Druid does seem to go a different route, but then again we already can use a Sun spirit and Call of the Wild depicts a giant Moon when cast.
The spirits are linked to the Druids of GW1 lore. Which, prior to becoming spirits (again, a trait shared by most living beings of Tyria) were nature-magic-wielding magic-users. Nature magic here, means “earthen” nature.
To me it seems they are pushing it into that celestial direction, broading the sense of Natural magic to include the stars which are also part of Nature. The moon, the sun, any celestial body IS a part of the natural world, which turns out to be anything but chaotic in nature, or we’d have the planets colliding into each other.
The problem here, as I mentioned in my original post, is that these definitions of “natural” pertain to our world, not Tyria. In Tyria, when I say “nature”, what I am referencing is the specific magic that governs specific aspects of the game universe, that follow a particular theme, in this case – “earthen” magic. Their universe does not operate on our laws. Their universe is inexorably, intimately linked to magic and “professions” in lore represent the particular magical affinity.
Specially at the astronomical level, nature is anything but chaotic. And the mists (which depict a far more chaotic version/explanation for reality) belong to the Revy, so… not following you on that one either.
Again, you’re referencing our nature, not Tyria’s. Furthermore, the Mists is a dimension/domain within their universe, it does not belong to the Revenant. You bring up a good point through this comment though, as the Celestial aspects would suit a Revenant as well. (Point of interest – the Druid announcement page has a very clear GW1 “Celestial” theme, which were mist-born entities, similiar to the Human gods and Norn spirits.) In an attempt to clarify, astral/celestial mechanics were never associated with Rangers. More than that, they were quite specifically associated with Mesmers, Ritualists, and simple academics of Tyria. Mesmer magic has always been described as “chaos” magic. Chaos here, being used to mean “unbound to the other magical aspects”, implying that their magical affinity could somehow be pulled directly from the mists (sort of their convergence point of all dimensions). Revenants share quite a bit in common with Ritualists in the ability to see into the mists, which given the GW1 Celestial’s origins, would make sense for this magical talent to also fall within a Revenant’s magical domain. In the end, the most important distinction is simply that magical domains have been quite clearly defined for quite some time, and astral/celestial magic does not fall within the magical domain from which Rangers derive their non-martial abilities.
I disagree completely OP.
Fair enough. I’m glad you’re enjoying the presentation of it so far, and appreciate you being polite and to the point.
Then, please, elaborate how do you expect any company to meet expectations of every single player out there.
I don’t. If you re-read what I have written, you’ll also find I never claimed to.
If you haven’t realized it yet, every other thread here contradicts the next one. Fulfill that, Sir.
If you believe they have the duty to listen to every single one of us and dance like we sing… Than you might probably realize that italic format will not make your thread any more serious or logical.
I use italic font because I aesthetically prefer it, not to satisfy or influence your, or anyone else’s expectations. As for logic, you are two comments in and already we’ve hit ad hominem attacks via the insinuation that something as innocuous as italicized font was somehow being used to make up for some personal deficiency on my part.
A gaming industry has one simple goal as any other. To make money.
The easiest way to achieve this is to create a vast variety of options from which players can fall in love with at least one of them. Plus, GW2 had a vision of user-friendly environment as a core mechanic.
To borrow your own phrasing for a moment; You might not realize, but companies that do not satisfy their customers, do not make money. The two are linked, not seperate. Yet again you bring up logic, and base entire statements on fallacious reasoning (in this case, either-or again).
Druid is exactly that mechanic that fills this purpose. It is an option people can fall in love with. They have absolutely no duty and you have clearly no right to demand any change about their product. Why? Because you agreed to their terms when buying the game.
First, you are neither a spokesperson for their company, nor in any position to dictate what their terms do and do not mean. Second, you cannot simply say “…no right to demand any change…” in an attempt to misconstrue criticism and suggestions as demands to better suit your fallacious strawman tactics. Feedback/criticism is not a demand.
I am one person in a sea of many, many others but simply because mine is only one perspective, does not invalidate it as a perspective worth being presented.
That’s true. But the same goes for my reply that your perspective is illogical.
No it does not. You are making a claim, and attempting to use the phrasing “does not invalidate” to mean “therefore makes valid” for your own benefit. Your constant attempts to claim “logical deduction” and “your perspective is illogical” in situations that – at no point – ever called for them, whilst basing your statements on fallacious reasoning comes off as nothing more than someone trying far too hard to sound more intellectual than they are.
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A logical deduction of this thread is that they should completely rework every single elite specialization…
…Hand in hand with every class and probably even the content of the very game.
A hasty deduction which is inaccurate and based upon speculation beyond what I have written, and therefore not logical.
I’m not sure if you realize but all the skills are copy-paste animations. That’s exactly it. This game never had unique stuff for every action alone.
In regards to the first sentence, no they are not. Some are, some are not. Those that are, are actions that are inherently identical (ie: using a variable, but limited set of hand flourishes for staff casting that are the same across any class using a staff in a magical, ranged fashion). However, when designing new content, the content itself should be inherently new. Re-using old assets is fine, but there is a line between sensibly re-using assets such as in the example provided, and over-using them to the point of it being a shortcut to “develop” content faster.
Moreover, from what I read, you are simply dissatisfied that your expectations didn’t meet reality. Just like another couple of thousands of players. ANet is not forced to fulfill your expectations. Their job is to create a concept that people might fall in love with. You don’t have to. There’s 8 other classes around.
They are a company designing a product. Their job is to satisfy/fulfill customer expectations, that is the way business works. Do they have to? No, certainly not, but it is poor business not to satisfy customers. I am one person in a sea of many, many others but simply because mine is only one perspective, does not invalidate it as a perspective worth being presented.
You wanted to mention logic earlier, this is the classic gaming version of the either-or fallacy – effectively saying “If you don’t like it, do something else” – whilst simultaneously appealing to authority. Simply because ArenaNet is the game developer does not mean that all of their choices are the right ones. Likewise, just because I have a complaint does not mean my complaint is simply “right”. They are a company and I am a customer – we are both involved, just in different ways. I’m a human being engaged in opinionated dialogue, of course there is going to be inherent bias.
You haven’t mentioned anything about viability. You said “Elite Specializations bring no synergy because they were created for PvP”. You also mentioned that Druid doesn’t use nature magic. That he doesn’t spawn plants.
And almost none of it is true. From my perspective, this thread is holding a vast emotional affection from someplace different than druid itself. Almost everything you say he lacks – he doesn’t.
If you want to quote me, quote me. Do not lazy-quote, ripping away actual word usage and context.
I, however, agree on the in-game feedback option you mentioned. That is an amazing idea to have. But then I was thinking whether the feedback should be just like this thread and I cut the idea in half.
Reading how people want me to re-create everything I worked on for several months “just because of personal feelings without a single rational explanation of balance or logical context”… No, I wouldn’t really need that.
The last part of this section is precisely why you most likely do not, and most certainly should never work in any profession that involves you receiving criticism. Game development simply is a business where criticism is necessary, hence why ArenaNet is bothering with beta tests at all. You critique my offering a suggestion, but go on to insert your anecdotal, personal preference regarding a hypothetical as a reason for not implementing the suggestion. Sound familiar? Because it should.
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Having finally had a chance to see the Druid reveal on Twitch, a few things have been made quite apparent:
1.) The Druid shown was not the Druid developed.
Given the early announcement of Druid as Heart of Thorns was being revealed, it was clear early on that the Druid’s (according to Colin Johanson himself) “plant-based” nature was to be a major part of the specialization, and that the specialization itself was one of the expansion’s flagship specializations given it’s unique ties to the plant-based themes in the expansion and of the dragon being dealt with within.
And then? Silence.
The Druid faded into obscurity, with any and all information being relegated to datamined information dumps, which are problematic at the best of times, and catastrophic at the worst (anyone remember that time when Bioware changed an entire storyline because someone leaked the original?). It was very clear early on that the Druid was set to be a heavy plant-based specialization, providing a counter to the Mordremoth-controlled nature magic and plant life.
What do we get instead? An Astral ranger.
No nature magic to be found here, not within the context of Guild Wars at least. Real-world druidism certainly contains mysticism and astronomy, but Guild Wars Druidism does not. Druid, in the context in which it was first revealed, was directly and unmistakably linked to plant-based magic, and the Druids of old Guild Wars lore. Those druids were also entirely plant-magic-focused. People often like to cite that these druids became spirits, yet fail to realize that they share this in common with nearly every living being in Guild Wars, making it hardly an identifiable trait and even if it were, becoming a spirit does not change their magical focus which was in life, and remained even in death, plant-based.
Instead, we receive Astronomical magic. A type of magic far better suited to Mesmers due to their brand of magic being literally referred to as “chaos magic” (ie: Unbound magic – natural magic. Raw mist energy, essence of the Eternal Alchemy.
Astronomy is not the domain of the Guild Wars Ranger, and never has been.
2.) The Druid shown is incomplete, unfinished work.
Even if what we saw during the Druid reveal is what we’re left with, and I sincerely hope that it isn’t, or this game is doomed (due to the underlying reasons that caused this to happen, not the Druid itself), the Druid is under-cooked. The animations, all of which are copy-pasted re-skins of other skills, are all clunky and wonky. The beam attack is hardly a beam, and more along the lines of an under-powered blue laser pen held by a parkinson’s sufferer. The heal-spam beams of.. celestial form.. are slapped-on healing versions of the Engineer’s energy blast set to an auto-attack. They are clunky and look absolutely ridiculous. The one vine-related skill Druid receives is just a re-skin of the skill that sends out jagged rocks in a line, and the staggered effect of the vines being generated and then sinking looks terrible, as if the “vines” are lego pieces. The “plant” AoE that creates a ring of sharp vines/bark to erupt from the earth is a plain re-skin of the Elementalist’s AoE of the same caliber. I am not against the skill in theory, but it needs a better makeover, along with everything single skill the Druid has.
Astralshroud (because let’s face it, it’s Death Shroud with stars) is yet again just another slapped-on re-skin and needs to be completely removed altogether. This is not, in any way, the domain of a Ranger. Remove it, or have it be ridiculed for the rest of time by those of us that have stuck around for 10 years once your temporary customers move on to superior titles.
Bring the Druid in line with its original concept, rather than ham-fisting it into the most thorough “ooh, I have a really cool idea!” brainstorm concept that you could pull off in time for a showing/release.
3.) The Druid shown is poorly designed.
The Astralranger (or “Druid”) was delayed into being the last specialization reveal, despite being one of the first initially mentioned. Then, its reveal was clearly forced out the door to satisfy TwitchCon, and its mechanics rushed into a playable state for demonstration purposes. Every single skill the Druid possesses is a bland copy-pasted and re-skinned variant of another skill, with elements of Water Elementalist and Guardian thrown in just because the development team isn’t cut out for creativity.
Let me clarify here that this is not an insult or a slight to the development team. I state it merely as a fact needing to be addressed and not as a snide remark designed to cause distress. I work in IT, I understand the stress involved on a personal level. That said, there is clearly a problem within ArenaNet regarding communication and planning. The Revenant and elite specializations were designed with virtually no research into and understanding of the synergistic relationships between trait lines. Each elite specialization was developed as a pet-project, with the specializations tailored to the interests of the primary designer and nothing else. A good design is not one based on one team member/a small group of team members having a “really cool idea”, and it is apparent that it is that mentality which spawned the specializations. Way too much time spent on brainstorming neat ideas, and too little/no time spent on investigating the total viability of those ideas before beginning development on them. You told a bunch of PvP nuts to develop new specializations for each class, and what you received was a bunch of specializations designed to give each of those PvP devs exactly what they personally wanted at the cost of synergy, viability, thematic integrity, and believe-ability.
4.) The Druid needs more development time.
See “The Druid shown is incomplete, unfinished work.” above.
Since in the end, we all know your company, as a whole, will never actually listen to your customers and will instead listen to the metrics well after the customers have spoken and warned; Look back on your metrics and notice the dive when players realized your initial promises were not going to be met. Notice the dive when players realized that the majority of content assured was conspicuously absent from the game, and that the manifesto is now a laughable comedy to watch. Look back and notice the dive when your team of amateur fanfic-inspired writers butchered the game’s lore and you had to scramble to try and patch it up as best you could. Your game is gaining short-term followers and you are alienating the long-term ones with every single development decision you make.
See the forest and the trees, ArenaNet. The forest may be growing, but your trees are developing root rot exponentially. We both know that by now, you can see the boundaries of your potential growth and that rot will catch up and consume the forest if you do not take the time to fix it as a priority.
As a suggestion, which I have have brought up in the past and will do so again here, despite the fact that this thread will most likely never be read by a developer: Re-implement the rating and comments box used during beta.
During the beta, whenever a player would complete a piece of content (and occasionally simply while out in the open world), they would be presented with a pop-up window in the upper left, offering them the opportunity to rate the content they had just experienced, as well as leave any additional comments in a text-box comments section provided in the window as well.
This allowed ALL players the ability to speak up about their experience without having to invest time into the forums which represent a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Providing a rating system allowed the fast-paced players to provide input without slowing them down, and the provided comment box allowed the more in-depth players to write at length, giving even more information, suggestions, etc.
Having this box presented in-game meant you never had to break away from the game if you did not want to, and meant that you didn’t have to invest in the forums, or suffer the toxicity of online communities for speaking your mind, which is a huge factor for many players/customers.
Provide this as an opt-in/opt-out toggle in the options menu. Toggle it on by default, but allow the option for it to be disabled, with a clear warning/explanation that by turning it off, they will be unable to provide quick, easy suggestions and feedback.
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I simply wished to add, after skimming through this thread, that this issue has been present ever since beta. Minion AI has always been notoriously bugged and has never been addressed. As much as I hate being the bearer of bad news, especially considering I have played (and will continue to play) Minion Master Necro ever since GW1’s beta, none of you should really expect to receive any attention for this topic. It has been brought up countless times in thread after thread for over two years.
Let me first take some time away from the titular subject to lay down a few fundamental “Points of Interest”:
1.) I’m making a skill suggestion that is relevant only to the skill itself.
2.) This is not a thread for the [Build “A”] vs. [Build “B”] crowd.
3.) This is not a thread for the [Class “A”] vs. [Class “B”] crowd.
4.) Trolls, and non-trolls acting childishly or detracting from discussion relevant to the suggestion, how it could be implemented, what considerations it might require, or further well-mannered brainstorming will be promptly ignored without reply.
Now, regarding the skill: Arc Lightning (scepter), as it stands, is a very weak auto-attack with fairly mediocre #2 and #3 skills. Combined with different offhands, the scepter’s air attunement can have some utility here and there in very, very context-specific situations. However, in spite of this utility, air-scepter remains ultimately weak in comparison to other weapons and other attunements (or even its own attunement in many cases).
Arc Lightning currently “charges up” meaning the damage begins to progressively increase as you channel the skill, increasing incrementally in damage-ticks of three, with the final three ticks delivering about-average (compared to other weapon choices) damage. The channeling nature of the skill makes it extremely susceptible to interruption, which is problematic given that most air-based skills are movement-based, allowing for greater maneuverability instead of damage, meaning that damaging air skills are few in number, and generally weak. This, combined with the low damage-output of Arc Lightning even when compared to other air attunement attacks, makes Arc Lightning sub-par as an attack, which is crippling when air attunement already suffers from lower damage output, and one of the three air-scepter skills does no damage whatsoever, and the other is only an average (albeit reasonably fast-recharge) damage spike.
One simple alteration to Arc Lightning, which would befit the skill’s title and animation, would be to slightly alter the animation to have secondary arcs of lightning arc to foes in a cone-of-effect, making the skill an area-of effect attack, allowing the scepter a little more versatility in being able to harass groups with mediocre damage, whilst spiking single targets during the damage harassment.
Little, if any additional changes would be necessary, given the skill’s already low damage output, and the skill (and air-scepter as a choice) would be given more versatility/viability. As it stands, air scepter is significantly underpowered and very few players even bother with it, excluding niche build-makers having fun trying out new ideas whether or not they’re practical.
Given that staves are typically the more AoE-focused weapons for casters, “Chain Lightning” (staff air-attunement auto-attack) could receive a similar slight alteration to keep its role secure: Increase Chain Lightning’s target-bouncing range (i.e. the skill’s 1200 range stays the same, meaning the player can only initiate combat on targets within that range, but “bounced” lightning bolts can travel beyond that range, provided enemies are clustered close enough) and number of targets from 3 to 5, potentially lowering the damage output to compensate.
I think these slight alterations would make these two skills feel more appropriate to their names, with Arc Lightning being the prime skill that needs attention. These are just some initial brainstorm suggestions, and damage-value tweaking, balance considerations, etc. are the realm of the development team handling such matters.
Hope this gets some Anet attention, maybe a response from a developer?
Until then, game on and have fun everyone.
Cheers!
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
The user that began this thread, DracosBlackwing.3174, could not have made the point more eloquently. Not only does Obsidian Sanctum need to change, but the team behind making this content and recent content need to be replaced. This pandering to a select crowd is driving people away in droves. Guild Wars is not meant to be an elitist franchise. It was built on the free-to-play, widely-cast-net model. This sudden shift, in violation of everything your PR campaign had to say about the accessibility of the game during its advertising before launch, is tiring. Myself and many others are preparing to leave this game for good. In fact, today is my first time on the forums, despite being a Beta tester for both Guild Wars games. The players on the forums do not accurately represent your fan base! They represent a small section of it! Have your team rewatch the PR you put out, such as your manifesto video and other promotional material, relearn your vision and start sticking to it once again, or this game is going to sink worse than its predecessor.
And if you had a steady job and a family, you would realize that twenty-two days to complete the content is simply not enough. Even if it were enough time, it still would not change the fact that the boring repetition of "Do “x” amount of achievements this month to get “y” exclusive reward is not only boring, dry and painstaking, but it only seeks to reward a very select crowd of players, while alienating ALL the rest. This is only further demonstrated by the current achievement rewards. Since when have achievements, always a “bragging rights” mechanic, become necessary to reward? It’s just a ploy by Anet to keep the hungry-hungry-hippo-type players munching away at exclusive rewards so they can keep making money. However, this decision is driving away new players, and alienating others. It is the same decision that led to the downfall of GW1, creating a player base of elitists with little regard for newcomers or anyone that didn’t achieve their status. I started playing GW1 during its first beta event and stuck with it until the bitter end. More and more each day, it seems GW2 is only going to follow in the same poor-choice footsteps of its predecessor and I will simply leave and move on to another, better company and game. I am beginning to regret participating in GW2’s beta and having spent so much time anticipating for, and investing in this franchise.
This most definitely needs to be done. It is a simple request, and a reasonably easy one to implement. Give necromancers green flame from Dhuumfire, and give Guardians exclusive blue flame from their applications.
You are not a pretty and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
Now with +10 to exp when consumed.
Get over it.
PvE farming for cash to become top PvP commander? bloody joke! Ranks like this shouldnt be bought – have it based on peers, or at least require a person to be elected a commander if they can get for example 40 votes from guild members or random players (1 vote per account) then you at least know someone running around with that marker has the backing of a large number of players and is more likely to know what they are doing, and they probably have some communication skills.
Which would essentially substantially reward large guilds and offer a feature to them that would thus be unavailable or extremely difficult to attain for anyone that does not belong to large Guilds. Implementation would also have to take into consideration those who represent multiple Guilds and swap between them often.
No, just no.
Guild Leaders should automatically be assigned “Commander-like” status for organizational purposes within the Guild only. This “Commander Lite” option should have no effect on anything other than the Guild within which the player is leader.
For example, while representing “NubStompersAreUs” – you see the Guild Commander (Leader) on your map in the same manner as one sees Commanders now, with an alternate icon to differentiate.
(edited by ShadowKain.9410)
To clarify for future readers despite this having been mentioned already. The original post wants to have multiple chat windows (not just tabs) so that the user may view multiple chats simultaneously rather than having to tab-browse which can be tedious.
I support this as a chat window opt-in option, but I do not support the idea as a default option for all players. It should be included as an opt-in feature allowing a user to setup their chat window in this manner.
Agreed. We need tailors, barbers, etc. or at least one NPC with customization options for our character. The character select screen is not an accurate representation of how your character will look in game and once you start customizing with armor sets and new dyes, that appearance can look entirely different.
A simple NPC, gem-store service item, etc. that will allow us to alter the appearance of a created character would be beneficial to those of us who care deeply about out character(s) appearance(s) and/or enjoy altering appearances, whatever the reason may be.
Eh.. there is an icon already in game. It is represented as a gold arrowed outline around your #1 skillbar skill. Ctrl+Right-Clicking a skill will toggle auto-attacking on and off for that skill.
Eh.. there is an icon already in game. It is represented as a gold arrowed outline around your #1 skillbar skill. Ctrl+Right-Clicking a skill will toggle auto-attacking on and off for that skill.Note: You can only have one auto-attacking skill at any given time.
Guild Wars 2 Necromancer Strayed way too far from the original. The limitations are disgusting and the MM, with all of it’s glorious and FUN micromanagement are GONE. Arena Net, The Necromancer needs a re-roll. Every Class inflicts conditions, Give the Necro back his army. Doesn’t matter that “I” loved being a minion master? Doesn’t matter that “I” loved the corpse Exploitation? I guess the devs don’t think so.
I find that the Minions in GW2 look rediculous. A rat with a human head? a “floating/Hovering” whatever it is? Get real… It’s a disgrace to high fantasy.
Necromancy is the magical art of animating the dead with artificial life.
Fleshweaving is the (mad) scientific art of Binding different parts of corpses together to create a “creature of flesh”. /disappoint
Agreed, wholeheartedly. I’ve been playing since GW1 released and have played Minion Master all that time. Since then, the class has seen nothing but nerf after nerf after nerf, slowly turning the profession into useless garbage. Apparantly ANet heard about Diablo’s treatment and eventual complete removal of Necromancers.
I realize that many players may not understand, may not have experienced what the deicated few of us have experienced, or may flame us and call our disdain nothing more than mewling and whining but the fact remains, if you want engineering adice, contact an engineer. If you want professional engineering advice, talk to a professional engineer with years of training and field experience. Likewise, those of us who are dedicated to this class are (as arrogant as this might sound) in the best positions to have reliable feedback on it.
And on that note – ask any one of us and I assure you that you will receive the same response nearly all across the board: Necromancers have been nerfed and changed into oblivion.
Summoners do not fit within the lore, not in the manner presented here, nor would the class have the mechanic variety that ANet desires to avoid the “trinity” model.
Rather than a Summoner class, ANet needs to overhaul the “pet” class that has existed for quite some time, and properly fix it this time, without hamstringing it.
Balance and complete change are two different things, it is a shame that ANet seems to not understand the difference.