Showing Posts For Sirgleno.2679:
I’ve gotten less than 50 both times I converted 250 T5 dust into T6. Non-scientific for sure, but leads me to suspect that 72 back is on the high side of average.
Players routinely get extravalue out of items by playing the TP market. By your definition they would be exploiters when in reality they’re not.
That’s what I tried to say in my post. Thanks for shorten it.
There is a subtle difference here, in that creating value is different than amassing gold. Creating value is when you are able to create something of inherent value with a zero (or near-zero) combination of inputs. Amassing gold is simply the concentration of that value (or wealth). That said, I believe this process was simply a market shift, since it required non-trivial (and seasonally restricted) inputs and resulted in a commodity that is assigned value by other players, which is inherently neither good nor bad. All market shifts, either in game or in the real world economy, have the side effect of redistributing wealth depending on how people act during the adjustment phase of the shift. Again, in abstract terms, this is likewise neither good nor bad – though there are of course winners and losers.
From my blog post:
“The Guild Wars 2 economy (and virtually every other economy in the same vein) is not designed to have any loop that involves creating value for no cost.”“Exploits are mostly generated by a mistake on our end and are really hard on players. When an exploit is discovered, players are tempted to participate by the draw of becoming wealthy and out of fear of being left behind the massively wealthy players who do participate. We take a harsh stance on exploiters because this decision should be easy: find an exploit, report the exploit and move on. It isn’t worth the risk to the player or the game.”
That is a rather overreach of using the term “exploit”.
Exploiting is used more to describe finding a bug or glitch in a game and using it to one’s advantage in some fashion. Like people finding their way into or around “physical” walls in WvW to kill lords from a place their entirely safe from other players.
This recipe was no bug. It was a brain fart. There was no extracurricular activities that players used to do this process. There’s a difference.
The outcome sucks for people who did not do this. I didn’t.
Players routinely get extravalue out of items by playing the TP market. By your definition they would be exploiters when in reality they’re not.
In all honesty, although I would likewise like a more black/white working definition to work with, an exploit is “What Arena Net deems to be an exploit”. I do disagree with your suggestion that taking advantage of any developer oversights would be immune from being labeled an exploit, although it is indeed frustrating to have no idea of what was intended and what was not intended. I for one thought this was an intentional move – and a rather clever one at that, thereby rewarding astute players who were willing to grind out the ectos during the market shift.
So. King John Smith’s statement basically stated that crafting anything with ectos that has a high profit return rate is considered an exploit. Okay, ArenaNet.
You’re missing the point here. The recipe allowed you to basically produce ectos out of almost nothing (mithril) and an initial investment of only one ecto.
Possibly true if you used BL salvage kits, although I disagree with your veiled suggestion that those qualify as nothing. I personally have 4 stacks of BL kits stashed away, and wouldn’t dream of burning them up for such a trivial gain. Also, mithril costs are hardly “almost nothing”. Actually, I agree with a previous poster that this was a net win for players, since they got more for their snowflakes and mithril, and were able to meet their ectos needs with less gold. The real losers here are people who were hording ectoplasms (and chose to dump them at the bottom of the market), or people who are in the business of generating ectoplasms through less efficient means (and didn’t adapt to the new, albeit temporary, market conditions).
@Erasmus
I don’t think John is calling this an exploit, he is simply quoting from a standing definition of exploiting in GW2. In fact, my guess is that he included this here for reference in response to xxxzavulonxxx’s comment that “Exploiting =/= oversight on devs part”.
So, my take (FWIW) is that ANET has not yet confirmed if they do or don’t consider this to be an exploit, although they clearly rebutted the suggestion that dev oversights can’t open up exploits. Also, from John’s quote, exploits are when value is spun from nothing (with a reasonable person also including when value is spun from “next to nothing”), and since there was a significant input cost to creating ectos here, I don’t see anything stated or implied (except from players) that this is or will be considered an exploit.
Thanks for the quote John, although I don’t believe it to be relevant here – as players weren’t creating value out of nothing. For each rare crafted and salvaged, there was the cost of the mithril/orichalcum and salvage kit, and unless they were burning up Black Lion salvage kits (which have a significant cost, in gems), there remains the 20% chance of the snowflake breaking when salvaging (assuming master/mystic kits).
I ran the numbers on this myself, and except for the very early adopters (who got their mithril and snowflakes on the cheap – the orichalcum recipes were never wildly profitable due to the cost of orichalcum ore), it was only modestly more efficient in terms of gold per hour than the “classic” salvaging of crafted rares for ectoplasms that to the best of my knowledge has been a staple of this game since the beginning to allow for a soft cap on ecto prices. I think it would be helpful to clarify specifically if the “classic” salvaging of crafted rares qualifies as an exploit, because while it does create value, it likewise eats up a fair amount of base materials and copper in the process.
I for one assumed it was related to ReginaBuenaobra’s post which touched on the developer’s desire to bring down the cost of attaining the ascended gear and associated infusions. As anyone who has crafted one of these is well aware, there is a significant cost (50 ectos) to create an ascended tier back piece, and a very significant cost (250 ectos) associated with adding an inherent +5 agony resistance. Prices of ectos coming down to around 25 silver each seemed to reduce this burden in a meaningful way. From her post: “With the Wintersday build we will be making some changes to help those trying to attain their agony resistance gear.”
I think it is clear that the value created here wasn’t spun out of nothing, and in fact was approaching a break even point when the recipes were disabled. Also, it seemed to perfectly fit with the stated intention of reducing ascended/infusion costs for players. Not to mention the happy side effect of imparting a significant value to the snowflakes, which the masses are out there collecting while they play through the game content.
So, I am happy to report that in addition to the 100g I made two days ago, I piled on another 190g yesterday – bringing me up to 510g. I absolutely realize that there are hordes of players who have well more gold than this, so please don’t mistake this for chest-beating, I honestly only do this to let people know the magnitude of opportunities that are out there to be found.
Also, I would like to thank the several people, who have written to me in game, for their interest and well wishes. However, even if I was willing to give away my secrets, I don’t believe that anything I could share now would serve any purpose other than to encourage players to jump into a declining opportunity. This ship is sailing on this one, but there will undoubtedly be more short term niche markets in the future, where maybe it will be YOU who makes hundreds of gold.
Play well, and happy prospecting!
Sirgleno
Yes, I turned my 220g into 320g just today.
No, I’m not going to post about the method in here in the public forums, but lets just say it was only a recently added efficiency to something I have been doing for the last couple weeks, and the profit per hour just jumped 5 fold (from around 5g/hr to about 25g/hr). The market is already starting to adapt to what I (as well as likely several others) am doing here, but I expect profits to hold in the 15g/hr to 20g/hr range for another couple days until the unnamed “thing” I am doing continues to catch on for a greater share of the player population.
Sorry I can’t share more, but obviously it would be dumb as hell to post about anything in detail here on the public forums. Maybe once I hit 600g and can buy out my legendary, but I don’t really expect the niche to hold that long.
Also, notably, there was nothing in the patch notes about this.
The patch notes are up, and nothing is stated about ascended crafting. Though you can now upgrade regular ascended rings to infused. Though I would guess this costs 250 ectos plus some skill points and/or fractal relics, just like upgrading the backpiece.
Greetings All!
So, mesmers got 3 bullet points in today’s patch, and while 2 of them seem very straightforward, one of them is leaving me guessing.
Specifically:
Mesmer:
Phantasms will now properly have all boons applied to them via player traits.
Does this mean that clones/phantasms will have previously unpassed player buffs (like condition duration) carried over from the increase players get via traits? This would make it similar to how it works now (as I understand it) with abilities such as condition damage/power/precision/etc.
If I have that right, second question: How about condition duration from runes (such as the 10% given via the Nightmare set)? Would these be passed on now, or is it only abilities from traits.
Third (related) question: Do gear based ability increases (say +power) get passed on to illusions? I guess I always assumed they did, but not sure if I have ever seen it confirmed, and I certainly never tested it myself.
Dev response would be great on this, as would any player based tests to check.
Thanks,
Same issue here, approx 2g total.
Not sure what “not supported” means exactly. Does that mean it isn’t allowed, or that ANet won’t enforce payment (essentially buyer beware)? This is a pretty important question, and I’d appreciate clarification.
I’m also very curious about this, and also transmutation to switch out the stats. Anyone confirm on this?
I am also very concerned that the Triforge Pendant will become obsolete, as I chose to pursue this as my “stretch” item for a longer term goal. I sure hope this item (unique really, as it is the only exotic that I am aware of that has a combined stat total that exceeds other exotics) is maintained as a best in slot piece for builds that can accommodate the even distribution of stats.
Thanks for answering the first part Terra, the comparison to legendaries seems a reasonable parallel and unless its bugged, seems good enough to convince me. That said, I am a bit paranoid, with this being a pretty significant outlay of gold for me at this time in game, so unless I knew for sure that adding a gemstone wouldn’t mess up my crafting, I probably won’t do it – which also means that I might as well let it sit, since unslotted it will underperform a cheap alternative.
I have now leveled up to 80, and while I hoped to finish the Triforge Pendant before I hit the level cap, I didn’t quite make it. I did finish the Emerald Pendant, although I may be a month or two out from finishing off the Triforge. My question is if I can bind my existing Emerald Pendant (which is Soulbound on Use) and still use it in the Triforge recipe down the road to create an Unbound Triforge. Additionally, could I add a jewel for additional stats to the Emerald Pendant and still use it in the recipe?
Thanks,
Sirgleno
@kylia – meant that confusion was inflicted on the opponents of the moa via AOE.
@drake – I thought the ostrich comparison was obvious, and although I never really thought of moa as similar to chicken, I suppose its a bit odd to presume everyone else thinks of them as ostriches like I do – they are made up birds after all. Regarding the 1% stealth/invulnerability, unreliable is quite the understatement, I think of it more like a last ditch, long shot hail mary. Basically it isn’t intended to work, but it will happen just enough so under some (very narrow) circumstances it wouldn’t be the worst idea in the world. The reasoning for the stealth/invuln, is again back to the ostrich, basically the same thinking as the head in the ground myth, that they did so to avoid predators, and it would be funny if once in a great while it worked. Finally, the confusion is for that “What the F” by others as to why this player would stick their kitten head in the ground – a.k.a. literal confusion translated into a very marginal ingame effect (since a single stack of confusion does very little).
drake and @jungle - I assumed my OP would be an obvious attempt at humor, and not get serious (drake) or pissy (@jungle) replies. So to clarify, it is not a serious suggestion, although I would be quite pleased (solely because it would be funny) if the moa condition did give players something like this as an obvious stupid move, birdbrain and all that.
Midnight fire would be a good fit as your “black”, since it looks great on cloth armor (though not town clothes for some reason), and the red sheen would actually be a bonus with that color scheme. Also it is by far the cheapest of the big 4 “black” dyes, listed in descending order by cost last time I checked – Abyss, Midnight Ice, Black, Midnight Fire.
So, first off, my main is a mesmer, although I never thought it worthwhile to even buy moa morph with my limited skill points (still only level 59). I have also not yet played any pvp (either spvp or wvwvw). That said, I do frequent these forums, and every day or two, there is the inevitable “OMG MOA IS IWIN BUTTON” or “WOW, I JUST GOT PWND BY MOA, NERF IT NAO, K THX BAI”.
As a perfect, and seemingly elegant solution, I propose the following additional move to be added to the player’s options when in moa form:
Head in Ground:
– Inflicts 1 stack of confusion for duration of time with head in ground.
– Has 1% chance of granting stealth and invulnerability until head is removed from ground, or moa form is dropped.
– Player is immobile.
Confirming The U is a great bunch of gaming enthusiasts (some of us are actually not half bad either), who know how to have a good time and are sure to never take themselves too seriously.
I’m about to get my hands on the Shadow light armor recipes (L25 wool based set), and while I notice that there is also a lower level Jute based set, I haven’t heard anything about higher tiers of nonstandard armor, and I’m hoping that it is just because it hasn’t been discovered by anyone inclined to put the information on the wiki.
Anyone know of any higher level sets of nondiscoverable/nonstandard light armor? Any chance there is a level 80 exquisite version (drool!)?
Let people list items with a range, that automatically adjusts when someone undercuts them. Problem solved.
I kinda like this idea, basically setting your low price (and starting price, which is needed to allow people to price lower than 1c less if they so choose), with automatic 1c’ing of others until you either reach your low price, or are sitting next in line. The problem here is that the barriers to enter the market as a seller are basically non-existent, and a lot of novice sellers might price their items so low that a huge cascade would happen so rapidly that radical price swings for large volumes of items would happen very quickly. Also, it would be tricky to prioritize more than 2 competing sellers at a given time, and allow for the prospective buyer to potentially depress the market to optimize their buys.
So, while interesting, might not be feasible.
As much as I enjoyed the EVE trade wars, which is what my significant playtime ultimately devolved into with that game, the ability to reprice an item for a nominal fee essentially relegated the market “0.01 isk’ing” (similar to the “1c’ing”) to the dreaded bots. Yes EVE is notorious for script controlled characters continuing to update their orders in a humanly impossible manner, and CCP (the developer of said game) was unfortunately motivated in the opposite direction, since even a script controlled character pays a monthly subscription (or more likely bought PLEX, but that still lines CCP’s pockets just the same). To be fair, even if they got motivated to go after market bots, it would devolve into a cat and mouse game, with the botters likely staying one step ahead since the script to operate the market bots can be run over the top of the client in a nearly invisible manner. I know I tracked several bots myself, and often profited just fine from their predicted foolishness, but even as I made isk at their expense, I’m sure they raked in an order of magnitude more, and without killing themselves actually watching the market.
TL:DR, repricing items for free (or a nominal fee) sounds nice, but unless bots could be reliably eliminated from the game forever (not likely, unfortunately), I think the move to penalize relisting with a relatively high non-refundable listing fee is the right one.
Went human myself. Why? No particular reason, they just look that good in Mesmer gear.