Guild Wars 2

Etna.1634:

This thread is like watching paint dry. Oh please lord give us BP/NSP or SF/ET next matchup.

Etna!

Jakare.6807:

Jscull.2514:

King, I gotta say after the forum battles we have had, you’re preaching the good word from the old school book now. Impressive man, you have def come full circle.

Even flipflop is beginning to see the light. This is a win for the old schoolers!

Now if we can get 1 of the 2-3 people making up the entire Anet wvw team to see the light, the game could someday maybe eventually migrate into some relatively competitive!

You’re late, Paxa. You’ve been mentioned like 6 times already

I got the signal late, I apologize.

Bash.7291:

Skarloc.2569:

Zeal and Radiance are mostly terrible, and I doubt many would argue against that. Luckily, our other three lines are amazing, so just take them for the traits, and use more offensive gear to balance things out. Pretty simple solution, really.

Except it really is not. You are still not getting the damage you would get by going into honor and valor that you would going into zeal and radiance. 100 power + 10% damage to burning foes is going to give you more of a damage boost than you are ever going to get in the honor tree for example.

If your sole goal is to accumulate as much damage as possible, with no regard for your own survivability, you are correct. However, that’s not exactly a great way to be real successful in this game. Between armor, runes, consumables, and stacks you can play with your stats enough to not have to place too much of an emphasis on your trait lines to get your stats to a target number. Now while they certainly do help, you’re better off suited at picking traits that benefit you as a whole, rather than taking a narrow-minded focus at a particular stat or area of focus.

As has been mentioned several times already, the problem with Radiance and Zeal is that most of the traits are fairly average, and for some reason is tied to condition damage and duration. Since the Guardian can’t really toss out a ton of conditions, it’s rather pointless to focus on either stat, and is essentially a wasted one. Yes, 100 power is nice, but I’d rather have 100 toughness and 10% critical damage. Not only that, but I’d rather have those traits instead of doing 10% damage to burning foes. I understand the fact that through those lines you could accumulate more damage, but it’s not much damage, and it’s far less useful than most damage lines for classes, and is especially inferior to our own defensive lines.

You’re more than welcome to go heavy into Radiance and Zeal, but where does the defense come from? If we’re talking PvE, it doesn’t matter, because it’s all mindless easy junk anyways, but in PvP, you’re really going to suffer from taking very average traits over much more useful ones like AH and Pure of Voice. I’d rather go heavy into Honor and Valor with Beserker gear than to go heavy into Radiance and Zeal, and having to rely on my gear for survivability. It’s a blatantly easy decision for me. I can get enough damage from my gear, so I think I’ll take traits that are actually useful instead of praying that no one is capable of cleansing my mighty 5 seconds of burning.

Shyhalu.4891:

For WvW how do you feel about scepter/shield? Seems like the shield abilities could be fairly useful when you’re standing in the backlines scepter-ing people and buffing the zerg/group with staff abilities.

Yeah, I like that combination. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of Shield, but it has its merits. I think Shield of Faith works best if you’re going to roll with a lot of people, and Shield of Absorption is a nice ability, just be careful with people that have Stability up.

I love Scepter though, I think it has a good combination of damage and CC. Smite is great if you can drop it on a location where there’s a lot of traffic, and Chains of Light is just stupid good. .5 second cast, 900 range, single target Immobilize is just awesome. The auto-attack is very average, but you won’t be doing a lot of damage anyways, so it won’t matter too much.

I’m not really sure where you’re trying to go with this build. Are you trying to be a solo heal spec, or is this some type of weird support spec? You’re clearly going for some type of support build, but I’m confused as to some of the choices you make.

I like your weapon combination for support, only you put Sigil of Stamina in both of them in a build that isn’t really great at killing people. The only way to really make that work is just tagging players hoping that someone else gets the kill. You’re much better off with Energy instead, it’s much less random than your current setup.

Your Crit Chance is 11%, and your Crit Damage is 30%. You have a good amount of Power, but it’s not elite. One of your weapons does terrible damage, and you don’t really have any traits that can really augment your ability in combat. Your consumable choices are just wrong for this type of setup. You need to realize you’re going to do terrible damage and try to get more survivability and Precision, especially considering Vigorous Precision is going to be needed to keep up those dodge rolls for healing. Take Maintenance Oil and a food that would give you some Vitality.

It’s great that you have so much healing power, but you should really consider adding some Sentinel gear to your lineup. Your health pool is atrocious, and as good as AH is, high damage classes are just going to chew you up. No offense, but healing is a lot more effective when your health pool is more than an Eagle Raptor.

Speaking of AH, it’s probably going to be more effective if you run an all shout build, especially since you’re using Superior Aria. Which brings me to my next point, why not go 30 in Honor for Pure of Voice? Condition removal plus boon application would do well in this build, but you don’t have it. You have 15 in Radiance, for some odd reason, so just drop 10 out of it and put it into Honor. More Vitality and Healing Power, and traits that don’t suck.

Also, change your Runes up a bit. If you’re trying to get Boon Duration, go 2 in Superior Water and Monk, and 2 in Major Water to get the most out of it.

Biggest problems I see is the complete neglect of Precision and Vitality, as well as going as high in Radiance as you did.

Shyhalu.4891:

If I wasn’t so attached to the GS, what would you generally recommend as a secondary weapon set to staff?

Also thanks for your help

Well, you’ll want a secondary weapon that offers more in the way of utility, rather than damage. Really, it will come down to personal choice. I think Staff/Hammer is a great combination, especially with Two-Handed Mastery. If you’re having trouble with survivability, Sword/Shield or Sword/Focus is a good combination. If you’re not going with a two-handed weapon, I personally like Scepter/Focus for the extra utility and support.

Shyhalu.4891:

More the second thing you mentioned. I definitely want to play support.. that is pretty much the reason I rolled Guardian, but I really enjoy the abilities on GS and the weapo skins (vain, I know).

Yeah, you should be fine then. Pick up Two-Handed Mastery since you’re going with that weapon combination. Just realize you’re not going to be doing that much damage with it if you go heavy support. Just make sure you don’t stay in GS to the point where you’re missing out on the staff CD’s being up. Empower and Line of Warding are going to offer much more than anything from the GS, if you’re going support.

Zeal and Radiance are mostly terrible, and I doubt many would argue against that. Luckily, our other three lines are amazing, so just take them for the traits, and use more offensive gear to balance things out. Pretty simple solution, really.

Here’s the problem with that combination. One is built for damage, the other one couldn’t be any farther from it. All of the damage options on the staff are terrible, at best, so the main reason to really use it would be for Empower and Line of Warding. Now those are both awesome abilities, but you’re not doing damage while you’re using them.

I think it really comes down to what you’re wanting to do. Are you trying to do damage, but want some added support? Or, are you wanting to play support, but really want to use a greatsword? It would be hard to pull off for the first option, and much easier to pull off with the second.

So, I play a full support build Guardian in a dedicated 5-man roaming/havoc group in the guild [PAXA] on the HoD server. I run with staff/hammer and go heavy into the Honor and Virtues lines.

So combat is essentially broken down to constant/sustained damage, burst/spike damage, conditions (which will cover debuffs, DoT’s, and movement impairing effects), team buffs, and utility options. As a support role, the main thing you should focus on is being able to deal with as many of these roles as possible so that no matter the situation, you’re going to be able to contribute in a fight. As a Guardian, you literally have an answer for all of these, and in some areas you’re flat out dominant compared to other classes.

As far as damage mitigation goes, the Guardian is really strong in this role. Selfless Daring from the Honor line gives you an AoE heal on dodge. Coupled with Sigil of Energy and Vigorous Precision, you’re likely going to be dodge rolling quite a bit in a fight. It’s a strong defensive trait for yourself, that also allows you to keep constant heals on your team. It helps deal with much of the constant/sustained damage, so that the burst/spike damage is likely to be less of a threat for you. You also have multiple ways of gaining heals/regen through Hold the Line!, Virtue of Resolve, Inspired Virtue through the Virtues line, the Staff, and Tome of Courage, which is just a ridiculously good elite that many more Guardians should be using. Aside from a few ways, most of the healing from a Guardian is instant and AoE, and all can be done without sacrificing your own heal, or survivability.

Condition removal is where a Guardian really shines. Superior Aria coupled with Pure of Voice is just a nasty combo when dealing with conditions. Shouts are some of the strongest, if not the strongest, utilities that a Guardian can choose from. Even without Superior Aria and Pure of Voice, I would likely still be using shouts. Now I don’t run them, but Soldier runes allows you to remove 2 conditions per shout instead of 1. I would run those runes in a heavy damage/support build, but not for a pure support build. Simply put, having multiple ways of AoE stripping conditions and turning them into boons is a surefire way of turning the fight in your favor. Not only that, but these same shouts are also giving your team valuable boons as well, likely at a high boon duration. Oh, and Save Yourselves! is easily one of the most game changing utilities in the game. AoE group purge, that gives you a long list of boons?! If that utility gave no boons, I would still run it without hesitation. Not only these shouts, you’ll also be removing 3 AoE conditions with Virtue of Resolve thanks to Absolute Resolution from the Virtues line. When it comes to condition removal, the Guardian is unmatched.

Again, another area in which the Guardian reigns supreme is the ability to throw out so many team buffs. If you’re going support, you’re likely running a shout build which means you’re dishing out boons left and right to your team. With Stand Your Ground!, and Indomitable Courage if you go that far in the Virtues line, you have ways of giving your team stability, which is easily the best boon in the game. Having multiple ways of giving your team AoE stability is enough of a reason in itself to take a Guardian over a Mesmer in a support role. Having your team be immune to control effects is often the difference between winning and losing a fight. That boon is just stupid good, and you have multiple ways of giving it out, all instant cast. I won’t get into all the boons you can dish out, but needless to say, your group is going to have more buffs than the other team will have. Oh, and let’s not forget about the Empower ability on the staff. The ability to give that many stacks of might plus a big AoE heal is just too good to pass up. It’s both an offensive and defensive ability that significantly changes the offensive output of your team, plus provides a big heal.

Now the one area in which the Guardian struggle,s compared to some of the other support roles, is with its utility options. If you’ve gone the route I’ve suggested, you’re only other source of group utility is coming from your weapons. Don’t get me wrong, Line of Warding and Ring of Warding are dominant forms of CC, but stability on the other team completely negates them. Now, coupled with all the support you bring to the team, it’s not a big deal, but you certainly have less nifty utility options than say a Mesmer or an Engi might bring.

I’m not saying you can’t/shouldn’t go support on your Mesmer, but the class is simply better suited for damage, and the Guardian does what you’re trying to do, only a lot better.

Guardian is simply better than Mesmer in a support role, and it’s not even close. Having played a Mesmer for the first 8 months of the game, I feel very confident in saying this. In fact, I’d rather have an Ele or an Engi in a support role than I would a Mesmer.

Like was said before, a Mesmer is better suited to bring different utility options to a group rather than filling the slot of a pure support role. Part of the problem the Mesmer has is that in order to pick up more support focused traits and utilities, they have to sacrifice a significant amount of damage, and often times survivability. Not only that, but you also start losing some of the more prominent, and overall more useful, utilities that a Mesmer has available to him/her in order to go this route. Also, part of your plan revolves around making use of leap/blast finishers which can be tricky to pull off, especially when you consider the average skill level of people playing. Personally, I think the best role a Mesmer has in a group/utility role is a high damage shatter build. The AoE debuff/damage, coupled with staff and mass invisibility brings a lot to a group.

katz.8376:

watch out mentioning PAXA. they’ll know… they’ll come… they’ll trash the thread with their chest-thumping forum-warrioring ways! aeeiiii! run! hide!

You rang?

Well, this could make for an interesting week.

Prosecutor.1457:

Skarloc.2569:

Good fights tonight with [TFH], [vT], [NERF], and [TRI]. Sorry we had to kill all you [SE] out there, that’s what happens when your genius of a warrior decides he’s going to jump in our fights.

You guys wouldn’t want to 1v1 him, so he decided to jump in.

There were 5 of us there fighting against other groups. Sorry that we didn’t grant him a 1v1 when we have a full guild group out there specifically to fight against other groups. 4 of us didn’t want to stand around and watch one of our guys duel someone when there were groups out there wanting to fight. We all wanted to play, not sit around and watch one guy play.

He could have just waited until we were done with what we were doing instead of jumping in our fight. That’s fine if he wants to jump in, we’re just going to smoke him like we did if he does.

Good fights tonight with [TFH], [vT], [NERF], and [TRI]. Sorry we had to kill all you [SE] out there, that’s what happens when your genius of a warrior decides he’s going to jump in our fights.

Rinzler.8072:

Good fight there PAXA. We finally have a challenge to overcome :-)

Yeah, that was a nice fight.

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Impromptu fight club AR windmill. happening now!

Thank you [PAXA] for the thorough 3v3 kitten kicking. Always a pleasure

For sure man, good fights.

osif.8673:

Oh man! A whole page ago?!?

I agree though, Skarloc was a little late to the party. He probably just came off one of his many forum bans.

The moderator felt like we had an unfair advantage with me pointing out the obvious, so they asked me to wait a few days before I posted.

Geoski.1407:

I know this is going to continue for an eternity, what i needed to say has been said. Good day

There’s been a lot of talk, so let’s settle this in the game with an organized 5v5 fight… oh wait, we tried that. You did have a valid excuse though, one of your members was tired… in a video game… You know, exhaustion is no laughing matter, so we’ll just chalk that up as a fair excuse, as one of your five was tired and there was no one around to replace him… except those 4 other guys… all members of [BS]… all not suffering from the fatigue that your engineer had encountered.

You know, I think the location might have had something to do with it. We probably should have asked you someplace where organized fights were happening… like at a Fight Night… that occur every Thursday… last night was Thursday… last night was Fight Night. Wow, this reasoning for not wanting to fight is really starting to fall apart here, let’s see if we can’t salvage this. I understand that some of your members were busy, and we could clearly see that as all of them were… doing nothing… except for standing on the windmill… attacking/emoting us already… playing Candy Land and suffering from exhaustion.

We should have just whispered you days ahead of time to set this up, as you recommended when your other excuses failed to hold water. That seems to be the way things work at Fight Night.. a place where impromptu fights happen… where people fight whoever is there regardless of saying something ahead of time.

Lil Homie, I don’t know what’s worse, the beating we gave you last night, or the beating we’re giving you right now. The fact of the matter is, you bailed on a fight with us that you agreed to, and then made excuse after excuse, all of which continued to fall apart by more of your people showing up. I understand the thought of dying in a video game must be hard, just ask Moobs and Goblin Beet Farmer, but turns out there are free respawns.

You’re garbage, and you dodging us was laughable. You’re a guy who prides himself on attending these things and setting up fights, and you bailed despite the fact that we were picking up people from different guilds just to fill our own group. We didn’t go there to ruin Fight Night, we went there to actually fight against other players. I think we should rename Fight Night to “Fight Night… except when a challenge comes along, at which point we shall all stand around and do nothing… at an event designed around fighting… but dying makes me sad, so I shall instead show these people the mechanics of regeneration and the guardian class… as if no one else has done this a million times in a 1v1 scenario… but I won’t lose, so that makes it all right.” I don’t know, it’s a bit lengthy, but I really think it will catch on.

Good fights to everyone else, and lil homie, keep on dodging fights and 1v1’ing on Guardian, hear that’s pretty hard to do on that class. It’s like playing Mario Kart… but you’re the only one racing.

You take care now!

Bones.5762:

Skarloc.2569:

Bones.5762:

Jscull.2514:

We come to fight club and no1 will 5v5 us……

hard to do 5v5 when ur doing 10v5

We don’t even have 8 members, must less 10. Nice try though.

couldve been clones/phantasms i saw, but like geoski said, lame move, yall went and grabbed ur 25stacks, had all ur players, while we was still trying to get ours together instead of just doing randoms, we had half players off in duels, no stacks, and ya just rushed us.

Not a single player was involved in a duel, of your guild, when we attacked.

Bones.5762:

Jscull.2514:

We come to fight club and no1 will 5v5 us……

hard to do 5v5 when ur doing 10v5

We don’t even have 8 members, must less 10. Nice try though.

HatasGunnaHate.3627:

KTDannyCZ.2910:

Jakare.6807:

KTDannyCZ.2910:

Xom.9264:

You say “our pug zerg lol” as if that’s a handicap when there is clearly VLK and other tags from guilds known to be solid players in the screen shot.

I think hes talking about me I miss cinnamon

Christ man, are you seriously manning an arrow cart a couple of meters from a fight? Do you have literally no shame? You may as well run a botting script to spam 1 and log off, it’d probably do a better job than you.

Seriously this kitten depresses me.

If PAXA actually knew a single god kitten thing about WvW you would know this was just a badge farm for fun.. we already own 100% of EB and there were 9 arrow carts and a flame ram in there. Ask anyone in that group if we were serious or not.

Jakare.6807 = BS not PAXA…

It’s tough for some of these people to actually make sense. Of course, that extra chromosome isn’t exactly helping out KTDannyCZ.

KTDannyCZ.2910:

HAHAHAHAHA oh god.. im just used to PAXA trying kitten their load on me. My mistake. as for the picture.. i quite like it

Who are you again? While we appreciate the random nerd raging, you should probably make sure it’s actually us before throwing out insults. Not that you made any sense in the original comment, it’s at least less embarrassing if you actually quote one of us next time, and not someone from a different guild.

Just… terrible.

Narsil.6579:

Oh osif osif you must be mistaking me with yourself and your other zerglins, infact first logical flaw is that at times we have no keep or towers, and another logical flaw is i solo roam around camps , and I usually never run away unless its a 1v2 or 3 at most, usually i stand my ground. I’m sorry sir but I keep track of those who give me a fair fight for my money, I usually add them and they are usually nice people, I don’t care whether you are PAXA or PHZE or VLK, to me it is just a tag, I don’t let anyone piggyback on their guild’s tag, in fact i rather they show me their skills, if they win i accept defeat and i make a new friend who is better then me and I fight him / her because a challenge is fun, if I win i don’t pin them I add them to my friends list and we have another round, but as for others, even those who use towers such as your friends and use guards and always fail to kill only to run in at low hp, so my dear new friend, from mesmer to mesmer , ill see you around

If you’re ever wondering the effects of being shaken violently as a baby, the answer is Narsil.6579.

Hematuria.4051:

How do you know it was an ignorant statement? Because you didn’t like it doesn’t make it ignorant, just unpopular. He probably exaggerated with the 15 minute thing, but he might be spot-on with the rest. I’ve only ever seen groups of PAXA attack solo roamers. Doesn’t mean that they only do that, but if I make that comment it might not be popular, but it is accurate from my experiences.

I see what you’re saying, and it certainly has merit. It would be one thing if it were to be someone random making a statement about how a fight went, but in this case it’s someone who’s openly taken shots at us in the past, and has done so again here. He’s making an exaggerated statement of fact, something you yourself even noticed, about exactly how we play. If he wanted to go into detail of how we fight, or offered specific instances to give an accurate portrayal, that would be one thing. Instead, he offers an overly exaggerated comment that we use a 15 minute duration of immobilize to 5v1 him. That, is an ignorant statement.

As you say, from your prospective as a solo roamer you only see us killing solo roamers. A possible conclusion to this could lead you to believe that it’s the only thing we do. If you were to make that statement, you would do so knowing that it’s possible we fight groups larger than just yourself. Given the resources you have around you, like videos, the forums, people from your guild/server, you could easily gather information to make a more informed statement. So when someone goes to the forums and says “All I see PAXA do is kill solo roamers”, for a very literal sense of the sentence, there could be a guy who has been killed by us who feels this way. This would have to be their only experience with us, and could not have witnessed us killing anyone else in the area.

However, it still makes it an ignorant statement, as they are unaware, uninformed, and uneducated of what really goes on, which is the definition of ignorance. So while they may truly believe what they have seen, it’s still ignorant as a solo roamer, the absolute smallest WvW population in the game, to believe that’s the only thing we do. You simply wouldn’t be in a good position to make that kind of statement. Your awareness of the situation would be lacking, to put it nicely.

Samhaim.8956:

I really don’t care whether you can beat moobs 1v1 or not, if you can good for you for proving him wrong in-game.
There is no need to flatter yourself thinking we would need a dedicated team to beat you guys, because we don’t i’ve seen it happen and the numbers were pretty equal.
And not saying you havent, but i’d like to see a video of PAXA going against 30 FC.
No need to get so worked up over this, like you said, its just a video game.

I would welcome a team of GWTD to fight us, if you would like to make this happen.

Samhaim.8956:

Moobs made one small comment on PAXA and you come full rage mode on him and anyone else that calls you out for that post, the one who seems mad for me here is you.

Quick question, i’ve seen PAXA bash on zerg servers and now i see you bashing on moobs for doing 1v1s, so do you want all of us to run 5 man groups because thats what YOU think is the ‘right way to play’ or what exactly?

Moobs made a comment and I responded to his ridiculous post with a sarcastic one of my own. My other comments have been directed at other people who have felt the need to comment. Despite the fact this has nothing to do with them, they felt the need to comment, so I responded. I see you’re pulling the “U mad bro?” card, that’s cute. Turns out that I’m not, sorry to disappoint you.

My comments towards Moobs and 1v1’s are in reference to another fine example of Moobs embarrassing himself in a previous match-up thread where he made some choice comments.

I see we have finally have a question here. Clearly there is no bitterness or sarcasm on your end, but I’ll answer it anyways.

I honestly could care less how anyone plays. If you want to duel, zerg, small-man, I really don’t care. I think it’s safe to say that roughly 95% of the population of this game enjoys large-scale combat, i.e. zerging. Now I don’t understand the appeal of that type of play, but it’s clearly the preferred style of play, and ArenaNet has made it abundantly clear that it’s the only form of PvP they are seeking to cater to. Since there’s little to no reward for actually winning week to week, it makes for a repetitive and boring game, one that has gotten even worse due to this new unbalanced ranking system. Fighting new people is great and all, except for the fact it leaves match-ups horribly miskewed. All some of you have to do is look at declining activity in your guilds to realize this is not a good system.

I would certainly love for more people to do small-mans, but it’s just not going to happen. The zerg is too prevalent, and provides too much of a comfort zone for people willing to participate in this regularly. It’s an extremely casual game that lacks any sort of competitive environment, so it’s easy for me to see why we’re such a rare breed. It’s not easy to do, and runs a much higher risk of dying, which a lot of people just don’t handle well in this game. Not criticizing people for not wanting to do it, just wish more did.

I don’t care if people duel, I just find it a mind-numbing experience. Like every other MMO out there, this game is not balanced around 1v1 in the slightest. You can almost pick the winner of a duel purely based on spec/class combinations in comparison to who they are fighting. I think it’s a great way to test out mechanics of what you’re playing, and playing against, but I think that’s about where it ends. When I’m on my Mesmer I know that I literally cannot lose to most classes/specs purely based on what I’m playing. Now, being a good player helps, but it doesn’t prove anything to anyone. If I kill someone solo, it’s not a rewarding experience for me because no matter the skill of the other player, the mechanics of my class versus theirs makes it an unfair fight in my advantage, and that’s how most duels are.

There isn’t a “right” way to play. We have our preferred style of play and we’re going to keep doing it. I wish more people would participate in it, but I know it’s not likely to happen and I’m not going to get upset about it.

insanemaniac.2456:

Skarloc.2569:

insanemaniac.2456:

dont even know why you bother responding if you took care of it in game

I just wanted to make sure you had a convincing opposing argument for your response.

i do

you being an kitten to moobs cuz he was whining, and then trying to justify yourself by saying “i have to respond”

I don’t have to respond, I choose to respond. I am very well aware of the content of my posts and how they come across. I don’t feel bad it for it, in the least bit, because I find it laughable that people want to come to these boards and bash us out of the blue, and then get so upset when we respond. It’s all right for them to do it, in any way they see fit, but then we are harshly judged by the way we respond. Here’s a grand idea, if you don’t like the way we come across, stop talking kitten on the forums. I know such a concept is difficult to grasp, but it could be a possible solution.

It would be one thing if someone actually made a point once in a while, but it’s always someone crying or raging about something, usually making little sense in the process and providing no thought or sense to the way they come across. The whole basis of their argument is them being mad and feeling the need to go to the forums with it. Since there’s no substance to what they have to say, beyond the usual “I so mad, you guys suck!”, I’ll keep responding the way I do. You have something legitimate to talk about, or an actual question, I’d be happy to discuss it in a civil tone. If you’re just mad that someone stole your juice box, well then…

insanemaniac.2456:

dont even know why you bother responding if you took care of it in game

I just wanted to make sure you had a convincing opposing argument for your response.

insanemaniac.2456:

Skarloc.2569:

If you are going to come at us with an ignorant statement, we will respond accordingly.

when people say this it just means theyre about to attack the targets character, intelligence, or mother instead of actually making some kind of convincing opposing argument.

You act as if a sensible debate occurred here and that I need to respond with a convincing argument. What actually happened is someone cried on the forums, yet again, and made senseless comments out of the blue because they’re upset. What exactly is the convincing argument that I need to be making here?

Ignorant statements are such because there’s not a lot of thought, or sense, to begin with, so sarcasm seems to be an appropriate response.

katz.8376:

nah. sarcasm is great. just don’t lay it on so thick that your post is probably only gonna last an hour or so before the mods get to it. XD

I’m not worried about how long it will stay.

katz.8376:

lol. its not the fact that you defend yourselves, which i fully and heartily agree with, its HOW you do it.

the irony of tacking “stay classy” on the end of your previous post is staggering. just sayin’.

and just to make it CRYSTAL clear… my comment was direct at YOU… your guild has nothing to do with it

So I should respond to ignorant posts made by people nerd raging with less sarcasm? I forgot that we are supposed to act a certain way, yet it’s completely all right for anyone to say whatever they want to us. No, I think I’ll continue to mock people who bash us out of the blue. I love the double standard though.

And the “stay classy” is sarcasm as well. I thought about explaining it to you in the last post, but I thought you would figure it out on your own considering it’s painfully obvious.

katz.8376:

wow…

“stay classy” indeed. pot, meet kettle.

Yeah, imagine how ironic this must be. Player A randomly insults PAXA, we respond, and now the victim card is played and we are the bad guys. Funny how this keeps working out. It’s as if this has happened before…

I do apologize, I guess I should have mentioned in the previous post that bashing someone for no reason should come with no recourse. What was I thinking for defending our guild. If you are going to come at us with an ignorant statement, we will respond accordingly.

One thing I will ask, is that could you all be a little more clever when randomly throwing insults our way. Not that we don’t enjoy seeing such inspiring and original insults, but a little more variety than the “I died, you guys suck” would be much appreciated.

Lord Galwrath.9302:

Skarloc.2569:

Lord Galwrath.9302:

Skarloc.2569:

Lord Galwrath.9302:

Skarloc.2569:

I really didn’t want to believe what our friends from NSP were saying. They told us if we beat you guys, we’d never see them with a force our size or smaller again, and it’s played out exactly that way. It’s just disappointing, because I know you guys have some talented players.

I think your mistake is believing what your friends on NSP are saying. It’s a well known fact that they are all full of bullkitten.

Oh what am I thinking. So are you. Maybe you should move to NSP. You know, the server that everyone is transferring off because they don’t like the kittenbag roamers who can’t put their money where their mouth is. You’d fit right in.

Put my money where my mouth is? Multiple guilds from DR are refusing to fight us. We actively go looking for them and they run unless they find more people to outnumber us with. At the end of the day, we’re still running 3-5 guys a night, consistently, and we do so in hopes of finding other good players to fight. We beat them once, and from then on we never see them with anywhere close to our numbers.

Yup you were running 3-5 tonight, that’s for sure.

Are you talking about right now, because we’re down 2, from an incredible starting point of 3 with our mesmer. Or are you referring to the 4 GT in the area? Let’s go ahead and finish the story by acknowledging that there’s over 10+ DR in the area that keep dieing to our smaller group. Where were you going with this exactly?

No, I was referring to the 10+ you were running with earlier.

And you kept running back to your tower and spawn over and over and over again

At no point were there 10 around us, and we’re fighting by spawn because you guys run to Bay every time we attack, and there’s a million cannons attacking us. You guys have a mini-zerg out there; why would we fight you at Bay when you already have a numbers advantage? It’s embarrassing that group hasn’t been able to wipe us yet. You guys have DR joining our group even acknowledging your zerg.

I fail to see how this is even relevant. We’re fighting a larger group than us, killing them repeatedly, and somehow this is supposed to make us look bad?

Lord Galwrath.9302:

Skarloc.2569:

Lord Galwrath.9302:

Skarloc.2569:

I really didn’t want to believe what our friends from NSP were saying. They told us if we beat you guys, we’d never see them with a force our size or smaller again, and it’s played out exactly that way. It’s just disappointing, because I know you guys have some talented players.

I think your mistake is believing what your friends on NSP are saying. It’s a well known fact that they are all full of bullkitten.

Oh what am I thinking. So are you. Maybe you should move to NSP. You know, the server that everyone is transferring off because they don’t like the kittenbag roamers who can’t put their money where their mouth is. You’d fit right in.

Put my money where my mouth is? Multiple guilds from DR are refusing to fight us. We actively go looking for them and they run unless they find more people to outnumber us with. At the end of the day, we’re still running 3-5 guys a night, consistently, and we do so in hopes of finding other good players to fight. We beat them once, and from then on we never see them with anywhere close to our numbers.

Yup you were running 3-5 tonight, that’s for sure.

Are you talking about right now, because we’re down 2, from an incredible starting point of 3 with our mesmer. Or are you referring to the 4 GT in the area? Let’s go ahead and finish the story by acknowledging that there’s over 10+ DR in the area that keep dieing to our smaller group. Where were you going with this exactly?

Lord Galwrath.9302:

Skarloc.2569:

I really didn’t want to believe what our friends from NSP were saying. They told us if we beat you guys, we’d never see them with a force our size or smaller again, and it’s played out exactly that way. It’s just disappointing, because I know you guys have some talented players.

I think your mistake is believing what your friends on NSP are saying. It’s a well known fact that they are all full of bullkitten.

Oh what am I thinking. So are you. Maybe you should move to NSP. You know, the server that everyone is transferring off because they don’t like the kittenbag roamers who can’t put their money where their mouth is. You’d fit right in.

Put my money where my mouth is? Multiple guilds from DR are refusing to fight us. We actively go looking for them and they run unless they find more people to outnumber us with. At the end of the day, we’re still running 3-5 guys a night, consistently, and we do so in hopes of finding other good players to fight. We beat them once, and from then on we never see them with anywhere close to our numbers.

We’re outnumbered in almost every single one of those fights, save one. I’m not sure what this video was supposed to prove, Oozo. You guys consistently have as many, if not more, of your own group, plus adds. This is also not all the fights that have occurred between us, many of which were fairly one-sided. I understand you not wanting to show all the footage, but just showing small bits and pieces of what really goes on doesn’t prove a point. In fact, we’re still being outnumbered in the videos, so once again, what are you trying to prove?

I for one am looking forward to a different match-up. BP has always zerged, and that’s fine, but we were hoping we would get good fights from DR. We kill you guys once and the rest of the night it becomes a numbers game, and that’s if you guys even come out. Two nights ago we specifically went looking for you guys and you dodged us to go zerg in EB. Tried to fight EDGE and they refused to fight us because “We’re too bunkery”, despite the fact that none of us are bunker builds. It’s annoying to have to chase down people to get a decent fight in this game. If you don’t want to fight us, just tell us and we’ll stay away. For guys that once prided themselves at roaming fights, you want nothing to do with us unless you have a clear numbers advantage.

I really didn’t want to believe what our friends from NSP were saying. They told us if we beat you guys, we’d never see them with a force our size or smaller again, and it’s played out exactly that way. It’s just disappointing, because I know you guys have some talented players.

Zizanzi.4678:

I wouldn’t be sorry nor apologize for it Lorek, nor stop them. Pretty much all night my little group only had 4 (1 BSTY/2 NoQQ/1 AD) and at one point got up to 6. Numerous times we would be fighting small unit stuff or against a zerg only to be added in on by KOM and/or PAXA when fighting enemies. They didn’t hesitate to add in so you shouldn’t either. They continue the advocation for small man but no honor of honoring those that are fighting small man on their part so why should anyone honor leaving their small man fights alone on our side when they add in themselves all the time no matter the circumstances.

Zizanzi.4678:

Again, you read into it the way you wanted to see it on the honor code. NEVER did I say there WAS an honor code in place. Just the opposite, I said there ISNTone in place and told my fellow (VP) people, who were trying to adhere to an honor code, to go ahead and attack since there wasnt a “CURRENT” standing agreement. Come on and get your rosé color glasses off and see it for what it is. I really don’t care if there is an honor code or not, kill or be killed is how I feel NO matter the numbers matchup when fighting on the field.

Since you vehemently exclaim there are no other small mans, besides the one you fought the other day, I don’t see the need for any such agreement. Continue business as usual.

Zizanzi (Stylii)
(NoQQ) Leader

There’s nothing rose-colored about this, it’s simply called reading comprehension. You make the assumption that because we run in a small-man group there is an unwritten code that we should follow with other people doing the same. If you didn’t think so, you wouldn’t talk about us “advocating” that style of play, yet not adhering to some type of honorable fighting. And then you throw in another baseless claim that we add in all the time no matter the consequences. As if you would even know.

Your limited experience with us is based on a small selection of fights in which you’ve had numbers on your side each time, and if it was up to you, the numbers advantage would be even greater. How have those fights been going for you anyways? You don’t seem to be doing so well against us. There’s a difference between us; we play because we want good fights, and to challenge ourselves. You play because rolling someone is the goal no matter how imbalanced the fight is. 20v5? As long as you get the kill, who cares if the process is more simple than a game of Mario Kart.

And we don’t consider you a small-man for good reason, you’re just not, and you never have been. NoQQ has been zerging it up since your days on Kaineng. I know you don’t like to think so, but just because you have 15-20 organized people on mumble doesn’t make you any less of a zerg. If you’re running 6, the only reason that’s happening is because you can’t get enough of your guys on, not because that’s the style of play you like, and you even said so yourself. You welcome more numbers to solve your fights, and that’s obviously your choice, and it’s clearly why we think the way we do about you.

I could care less how many you run with. My expectations for what anyone does in this game is not very high. I expecting zerging, and lots of it. I don’t understand it, but it’s clearly the way the mass majority of this game wants to play, which includes you, Stylii. When in doubt, grab more numbers.

Oozo.7856:

Skarloc.2569:

After a certain point you do have to count them though. If it’s just one or two random people who are terrible, then absolutely. If it’s 3-4 people who have somewhat of a clue, it becomes a clear edge, and it’s not even close. Having extra people throwing out random attacks, rezzing people, tossing out AoE’s, etc. is a lot to handle when it’s only 4-5 people against an already larger organized group.

I’m not saying it’s been 5v15, but it’s become a numbers game in several fights. Again, I know you don’t control what the adds can do, and it’s frustrating for us when adds jump in as well. However, it’s one thing to have one of our guys jump in mid fight compared to knowing full well that you’re gonna have adds who are going to jump in from the start. We have been avoiding the latter.

Oh, I agree. Obviously, in many cases, the extra people are a benefit. But, sometimes they are just a rally magnet for the other team. Another thing I’ve noticed is that the friendly tag color of teal can be really hard to notice when in a fight. Red is always easier to notice.

;)

On this topic, how should the last fight we had at ruins tonight be interpreted?

For DR: 5 AD, 2 RegA, 1 DDLG
For HoD: 3 PAXA, 1 KoM, 1 CATZ, 2 FSB

We were not running with RegA or DDLG (they just happened to be there), but Subcrazy (who was there) is saying that we (AD) had 8. Can I say that you had 7 then?

There seems to be a double-standard being applied to us. ;(

We were running 3 PAXA/ 1 KoM for only about half an hour, I don’t remember a fight at the ruins. Are you referring to the fight at the camp near Bay?

Oozo.7856:

Skarloc.2569:

Oozo, I have no beef with you and never have. I agree with a lot of what you say on a lot of different topics, but I’ve got no reason to lie when it comes to this.

I don’t think anyone is lying. When I go back and look at footage, sometimes I’m amazed about how much my perception of the fight as it was happening does not match up with the reality of what really happened.

I’ll post some footage. Not to call anyone out or something like that but just so you can see our numbers from our side.

How many of the fights did you get recorded?

Oozo.7856:

Skarloc.2569:

Oozo.7856:

subcrazy.1098:

Zizanzi.4678:

Snow Ghost.6817:

Jscull.2514:

It is beyond mildly embarrassing that we have fought ONE guild under 10 players this week. Graduate from zerg school already, challenge yourselves past relying on 15+ people to stay alive.

We did attempt to engage you tonight but we pulled a lot of others with us.

We aslo did try to stay out of your fights with the AD and NOQQ guys but some of the people following jumped in.

I am sorry for this but sadly, this is the way of things. If they aren’t in the guild and on on TS, it’s hard to stop them.

/salute

I wouldn’t be sorry nor apologize for it Lorek, nor stop them. Pretty much all night my little group only had 4 (1 BSTY/2 NoQQ/1 AD) and at one point got up to 6. Numerous times we would be fighting small unit stuff or against a zerg only to be added in on by KOM and/or PAXA when fighting enemies. They didn’t hesitate to add in so you shouldn’t either. They continue the advocation for small man but no honor of honoring those that are fighting small man on their part so why should anyone honor leaving their small man fights alone on our side when they add in themselves all the time no matter the circumstances.

Zizanzi (Stylii)
(NoQQ) Leader
ADNoQQBsty Alliance

Sorry but we never seen any AD or noqq with less then 8 tonight.

You can’t be serious. :/

We ran into groups of 5-6 early in the night, but those numbers grew to 8+ for the rest of the night.

I typically don’t count tag-a-longs as part of an organized group’s numbers since they have no control over that and since they aren’t on voice they can actually be more of a hindrance than a help (as you already know).

While I was running with the mixed group we never had more than 6. When I switched to run with AD we had 5. I did take about a 30 min break in between that switch, though.

After a certain point you do have to count them though. If it’s just one or two random people who are terrible, then absolutely. If it’s 3-4 people who have somewhat of a clue, it becomes a clear edge, and it’s not even close. Having extra people throwing out random attacks, rezzing people, tossing out AoE’s, etc. is a lot to handle when it’s only 4-5 people against an already larger organized group.

I’m not saying it’s been 5v15, but it’s become a numbers game in several fights. Again, I know you don’t control what the adds can do, and it’s frustrating for us when adds jump in as well. However, it’s one thing to have one of our guys jump in mid fight compared to knowing full well that you’re gonna have adds who are going to jump in from the start. We have been avoiding the latter.

Oozo.7856:

subcrazy.1098:

Zizanzi.4678:

Snow Ghost.6817:

Jscull.2514:

It is beyond mildly embarrassing that we have fought ONE guild under 10 players this week. Graduate from zerg school already, challenge yourselves past relying on 15+ people to stay alive.

We did attempt to engage you tonight but we pulled a lot of others with us.

We aslo did try to stay out of your fights with the AD and NOQQ guys but some of the people following jumped in.

I am sorry for this but sadly, this is the way of things. If they aren’t in the guild and on on TS, it’s hard to stop them.

/salute

I wouldn’t be sorry nor apologize for it Lorek, nor stop them. Pretty much all night my little group only had 4 (1 BSTY/2 NoQQ/1 AD) and at one point got up to 6. Numerous times we would be fighting small unit stuff or against a zerg only to be added in on by KOM and/or PAXA when fighting enemies. They didn’t hesitate to add in so you shouldn’t either. They continue the advocation for small man but no honor of honoring those that are fighting small man on their part so why should anyone honor leaving their small man fights alone on our side when they add in themselves all the time no matter the circumstances.

Zizanzi (Stylii)
(NoQQ) Leader
ADNoQQBsty Alliance

Sorry but we never seen any AD or noqq with less then 8 tonight.

You can’t be serious. :/

We ran into groups of 5-6 early in the night, but those numbers grew to 8+ for the rest of the night. Again, if that’s what you guys want to run, have at it. I could care less, I know the small-man thing is not what you guys really do anymore, and that’s cool. You guys will run a small group if that’s what you have on, but as Stylii so eloquently pointed out, you’re just as happy to hit us with 15 or with 5. That could be just what Stylii wants to do, but given the well-known alliance, I doubt that he is alone in that regard, and just seeing the numbers has validated that point.

We realize we’re going to be outnumbered, and we know as the night goes on and more of your guys log on, the fights become more out of hand for us as we’re still just running with 5. We know that we’re a rare breed in wanting to just run with one group and try fight against other groups, and we’re not expecting anyone else to do the same. It would be nice, but it’s become abundantly clear the mindset of what people want in WvW. We’re in the minority, and that suits us just fine. It’s nice when we do come across however many you have on, but we have no reason to lie about the numbers. We’re winning a lot of those fights regardless.

I’ve enjoyed the fights so far, and would have never said anything had Stylii not run his mouth about adding in on fights and talking about this ridiculous honor code we supposedly had in place. It would be one thing to not jump in on a fight involving another small-man group, but after seeing 8 or 9 of you guys sit outside our spawn and try to attack 3 of us, why should I adhere to any sort of rule?

When you guys were matched up with NSP, the forums turned into an absolute nightmare for you guys, and it was involving the same thing. I’m hoping this doesn’t devolve into someone letting us know how proficient they are with weapons, or posting a real-life picture of themselves holding a firearm, but we’ll see. Oozo, I have no beef with you and never have. I agree with a lot of what you say on a lot of different topics, but I’ve got no reason to lie when it comes to this.

Zizanzi.4678:

PS. if I had 10 or 15 or 20 people at my disposal (which i don’t) and fought your 5 man I wouldn’t really care if i zerg’d you. I’m out to kill ya no matter the odds.

Zizanzi (Stylii)
(NoQQ)

Oh we know. When the going gets tough, find more people with a pulse.

Zizanzi.4678:

Snow Ghost.6817:

Jscull.2514:

It is beyond mildly embarrassing that we have fought ONE guild under 10 players this week. Graduate from zerg school already, challenge yourselves past relying on 15+ people to stay alive.

We did attempt to engage you tonight but we pulled a lot of others with us.

We aslo did try to stay out of your fights with the AD and NOQQ guys but some of the people following jumped in.

I am sorry for this but sadly, this is the way of things. If they aren’t in the guild and on on TS, it’s hard to stop them.

/salute

I wouldn’t be sorry nor apologize for it Lorek, nor stop them. Pretty much all night my little group only had 4 (1 BSTY/2 NoQQ/1 AD) and at one point got up to 6. Numerous times we would be fighting small unit stuff or against a zerg only to be added in on by KOM and/or PAXA when fighting enemies. They didn’t hesitate to add in so you shouldn’t either. They continue the advocation for small man but no honor of honoring those that are fighting small man on their part so why should anyone honor leaving their small man fights alone on our side when they add in themselves all the time no matter the circumstances.

Zizanzi (Stylii)
(NoQQ) Leader
ADNoQQBsty Alliance

Stylii, you guys were running close to 10 all night, and even had more at times, don’t even kid yourself otherwise. And you had no problem jumping in with whoever was around to zerg us down. We didn’t even mention you guys, so I’m not even sure where this even came from. Luckily, bashing us out of the blue is popular on these forums, so welcome to the club.

Some good fights with [AD] tonight. Been a while since we last saw you guys.

Azaruil.3406:

katz.8376:

osif.8673:

Haha, that’s hilarious. Ungood is so riled up over us that he makes a post about us on a separate forum because he was banned from this one. Great stuff.

actually… he’s LOLing pretty hard. but whateva. hopefully see you on the field this evening.

We both know that isn’t true. :p

Yeah, you would think that his obsession would have ended on these forums. Apparently, that is not the case.

Any NA server have this open?

katz.8376:

what makes you think i’m shocked at your response.

and what makes you think i felt better to post that? >.>

I apologize, you posted it for the simple fact of wanting to display your ignorance. Shall we discuss PK now? I feel it’s getting about the time now. You clearly just wanted to bash our guild, so I’m fairly certain we should only discuss our “criticism” with yours.

katz.8376:

Skarloc.2569:

If that’s the case, why not just avoid us out in the field and not post about it. Was it really necessary to post all that when all you had to do was simply not fight us? It was an ignorant and intolerant statement that did not need to be said.

as i said before… it was asked if we would like it if PAXA were on ET. i was responding to that question. are you implying that i am entitled to my opinion, unless it disagrees with yours?

PAXA didn’t ask you that question, someone else did. Just because our name comes up from other people doesn’t give you green light to openly bash us. However, that doesn’t stop people, so are you really shocked that we would defend ourselves against all this garbage? And you responded with unnecessary criticism. You’re entitled to your own opinion, but don’t get upset when we respond the way we do against ignorant and intolerant accusations made towards our guild. As I said before, your post served no purpose other than to make you feel better.

katz.8376:

i’m not a he.

and normally i am quite nice. as is my guild.

i responded the way i did because while i haven’t noticed and don’t remember seeing any rudeness on the field from you (dancing laughing etc)… and for that i thank you… when i see someone from PAXA post on the forums, it frequently comes off in a mocking tone.

if the intention was indeed to mock, then “you ain’t all that. you just an annoyance to avoid”. if the intention was NOT to mock, then… no offense… some of your members need to work on how they phrase their posts.

have your fun. i’ll try to have mine. tah.

Our posts come off as mocking at times because people feel the need to come on these forums and bash us. This should be familiar to you as you did it yourself. I apologize for not playing nice with people that feel the need to trash us. You previous posts accomplished nothing but making you feel better. You let us know that we were nothing special, you didn’t approve of the way we play, and that you were going to avoid us. If that’s the case, why not just avoid us out in the field and not post about it. Was it really necessary to post all that when all you had to do was simply not fight us? It was an ignorant and intolerant statement that did not need to be said.

We very much could say a few things about PK, but we’re not going that route as it serves no purpose. You’re just one person in that guild, and I’m not going to hold your actions as the standard.

I’m not saying you’re a bad person, but you are clearly in the wrong on this. You should have never posted about us in the first place, so don’t act shocked that we have directed this towards you.