Guild Wars 2

I dont understand why every engineer isnt using the SE set.

Turret engineers should be treated as a genuine pet spec. They perform the same way a pet does and take more damage. Rangers can spec into bm and have their pets hit like trucks. Hell, they do alright damage without the heavy point investment. Why then, when engineers spec into their turrets, they still do barely anything?

pza.8024:

…and jump shot and netshot and hip shot and overcharged shot. those are clearly not sniper skills.

Things that you often see shotguns used for.

Ive been doing roughly the same thing recently and Im having a blast. You’re right, I can keep 18-20 stacks pf bleed on multiple targets along with vuln. Im using rabid gear at the moment, and the toughness is so much nicer than just a squishy berserker set.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Tilde_key.jpg

That is all.

ivan.3571:

still wont be enough for different needs!~

All of my what.
Seriously,you can switch between 2 dps attunements, a supportive attunement and a defensive attunement. What do you want? 8 weapon swaps instead of 4?

I’m certainly not a warrior expert, but more often than not, I have a much better time with rifle warriors over gs warriors. I’’m not saying it’s a better build, but there is one key difference between the two; rifle warriors aren’t running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Perhaps certain build do put put bigger numbers, bit it seems to me like the gs warriors are doing a lot more dancing around than actually hitting the target.

I was really happy when these threads finally died. There used to be at least 3 “zomg sniper kit” threads on the first page. It was such a relief to see them disappear. I guess since this is the only one it’s less annoying, but it still doesn’t make any sense.

A game focused around mobility and people are theory-crafting for something that requires little to no movement. If you want to roll sniper, go rifle warrior.

Not every engineer uses (nor wants to use) kits. This basically forces kits on everybody.

bengt.6014:

Spracket.9604:

I’m also using as much apothecary’s as the trading post will let me, although I’ve resorted to shaman’s jewelry (since the ridiculous price of passion flowers hasn’t been resolved). With not only the pistol, but also the elixir gun and bomb kit, the only conditions you don’t have are chill and fear.

So, would you recommend a mix of Cleric’s gear and condition damage gear? Or did you go full Cleric’s?

Oh im using apothecary’s and shaman’s. I’m not 100% on this choice (only because of the inventions 25 point passive. What I do know is that you can keep poison, burning, confusion, and bleed up on the target. Plus, Even without exploiting power, I can still get my healing near 1300. I was fighting vet karka without losing health.

I’m not really an expert on the build yet, but so far no regrets.

You said you’d mostly be bomb spamming so maybe clerics is a good choice for you, but i’m constantly swapping kits and only using the bombs for any extra healing that 2 super elixirs and regen can’t cover.

So far, I’ve run TA and SE, and the build has been very fun, if not effective. There have even been fights where I’ve ended up tanking a bit. In wvw fights, I’ve kept myself going under arrow cart barrages. It’s a blast.

I started using a build that’s almost exactly the same, and am having a blast. I went from using grenade spam (yawn). While it obviously hits for much less, your ability to survive skyrockets, you can support your group much better, and you don’t destroy your wrist spamming 1 button!

The main difference in my build is elixir r instead of c, since you already have a good chunk of condition removal with elixir gun + double super elixir.

I’m also using as much apothecary’s as the trading post will let me, although I’ve resorted to shaman’s jewelry (since the ridiculous price of passion flowers hasn’t been resolved). With not only the pistol, but also the elixir gun and bomb kit, the only conditions you don’t have are chill and fear.

penatbater.4710:

They’re exactly the same stats as clerics? o.O

More or less. Apothecary’s has condition damage instead of power (go go elixir gun), but the healing and toughness is the same… and yet the mats are insanely more expensive.

Crux.6403:

Spracket.9604:

I was about to make a new thread about this so I’ll just paste what I was going to say.

Why are passion flowers so hard to gather? The rarity of these makes crafting apothecary’s gear much more difficult than any other set. To make all 5 exotic pieces, you need a total of 375 passion flowers, and I haven’t gathered a single one from passiflora. The only passion flowers I have are from consortium chests, and they only seem to pop up one at a time.

Karka shells have a low drop rate as well, but at least they’re dropping at all. To make a full set of Apothecary’s armor, you need 180 shells, just less than half of the number of flowers you need to make the jewelry (and that’s 6 pieces, as opposed to 5).

It also makes no sense when comparing it to the drop rate of other gem options. Apothecary’s is just an alternative to cleric’s, and yet cleric’s is fathoms cheaper. Making one exquisite sapphire gem requires 5 sapphire orbs, an item that (1) is very easy to acquire by one’s self, and because of this (2) is very cheap in the trading post. Currently, one sapphire orb is going for about 2 silver, while a single passion flower is going for 8.
In other words:
-the required gems for a piece of cleric’s jewelry ~ 10 silver
-the required flowers for a piece of apothecary’s jewelry ~ 1 gold, 20 silver

What is justifying the ridiculous difference in value for this particular stat combo? I can only assume that this is some sort of fumble because I don’t see the justification for making the drop rate of a green-level item lower than that of a yellow.

I really like the points you make and I think it’s a really good analysis, the only quick rehash is that the gems for a piece of cleric’s jewelry vs apothecary’s.
Clerics ~ 10 silver
Apothecary’s ~ 600 silver = 6 GOLD

Flowers vs orbs – 1 orb per gem vs 15 flowers per gem = 5 orbs per accessory vs 75 flowers per accessory

Flowers are x4 as expensive as sapphire orbs = 10 silver * 4 * 15 = 6 gold

Whoops, I forgot to multiply once more; thanks for the catch. Now I’m even more downtrodden about farming than before!

I was about to make a new thread about this so I’ll just paste what I was going to say.

Why are passion flowers so hard to gather? The rarity of these makes crafting apothecary’s gear much more difficult than any other set. To make all 5 exotic pieces, you need a total of 375 passion flowers, and I haven’t gathered a single one from passiflora. The only passion flowers I have are from consortium chests, and they only seem to pop up one at a time.

Karka shells have a low drop rate as well, but at least they’re dropping at all. To make a full set of Apothecary’s armor, you need 180 shells, just less than half of the number of flowers you need to make the jewelry (and that’s 6 pieces, as opposed to 5).

It also makes no sense when comparing it to the drop rate of other gem options. Apothecary’s is just an alternative to cleric’s, and yet cleric’s is fathoms cheaper. Making one exquisite sapphire gem requires 5 sapphire orbs, an item that (1) is very easy to acquire by one’s self, and because of this (2) is very cheap in the trading post. Currently, one sapphire orb is going for about 2 silver, while a single passion flower is going for 8.
In other words:
-the required gems for a piece of cleric’s jewelry ~ 10 silver
-the required flowers for a piece of apothecary’s jewelry ~ 1 gold, 20 silver

What is justifying the ridiculous difference in value for this particular stat combo? I can only assume that this is some sort of fumble because I don’t see the justification for making the drop rate of a green-level item lower than that of a yellow.

@ Poplik
“#3 abilities are not designed to be used straight after #2, you get one stomp stopper but you can’t do second one straight away. Would you like to have your stomp stopped twice every time?”

No, I would hate that, which is why I find it kind of annoying that a handful of other professions can do that. How many times has a rogue jumped away from your stomp and then follow with a stealth? How many times has a mesmer done something similar? Honestly, being able to use our #3 probably won’t save us half as much as we would want it to, but I’d be happy if I could at least use it.

We don’t even need to reduce the warm-up time on it; just change the way our #2 works. If it were at least a gap-creator (as opposed to a gap-closer) like some of the other professions have (elementalist, mesmer, thief, etc.) then we’d at least have a shot at popping it.

Also, our #2 just doesn’t make sense. I understand that it does interrupt stomps, and that’s great, but why in the Hell would anyone want to pull their killer toward them? I’m just throwing random ideas out, but wouldn’t it make much more sense to have a hidden rocket in our sleeve to knock them back or something? How many people would lie helpless on the ground and think, “aw man that guy’s coming at me with a knife, I better pull him closer.” It would make more sense, and it might give us a chance to actually use our #3.

I really want to avoid this sounding like I’m calling everyone a bunch of whiners (especially since I’ll be doing a bit of whining myself). I understand this is your class and you want equal attention from Anet.

There are professions that are in way worse shape than warriors. Some people have said that the problems are being dealt with, and that’s somewhat true. I’m saying this from an engineer’s perspective, arguably one of the two buggiest professions right now (the other being necromancer). In the Sept. 25th patch, out of all of the issues engineers are currently facing, we received one bug fix (that many people believe should have been at the bottom of the list, considering how amazing underwater grenades are without the toolbelt skill) and a nerfed “exploit.”

In the Oct. 1st patch, we were given a couple of trait tweaks in addition to one actually important fix (auto-attack on weapon kits). Please put yourselves in our shoes.
-We didn’t have a saved auto-attack (until the 1st).
-Our turrets attack mobs that aren’t even there.
-Sigils are half as useful to us as they are to others because the majority of our weapons do not benefit from them.

I’m going to stop posting any more because I’m really not trying to have a wizzing contest for who’s class is the buggiest (although it’s kind of exactly what I’m doing); I’m just trying to put things in perspective. Your bola misses sometimes? So does our flamethrower. But hey, at least you still can still have your sigils as well as your weapon stats.

I’m not saying one class is more important than the other, obviously. However, as far as I can tell from word-of-mouth, every other profession seems to agree that the warrior is the most well-off at the moment. And from the look of the patch, Anet probably feels the same way.

1. Just because the Asura as a race revere magic, it doesn’t mean every single Asura is a wizard. If it did, then there would be no Asura warriors, rangers, or thieves.
2. While magic is a very powerful tool, it doesn’t necessarily trump all technology.

When playing the Norn storyline, Ballista Geargrind refers to Asura technology as, “magic, crystal, rainbow trash,” making the point that Charr technology is far more durable. This is probably why Asura technology wouldn’t work for the engineer profession. Yes, you can make a decent golem or gate (the two main items the Asura boast), but these aren’t going to be blowing up the wall of a fortress anytime soon.

Bugfix: Weapon stats not affecting kits.

Change: Turrets should scale with your gear. It makes absolutely no sense that an ability used primarily for damage is not affected by your stats. The turrets of a level 80 wearing fine and masterpiece items are just as effective as a level 80 with full exotics?
This includes the healing turret’s regen. This has to be a bug.

In Response back to Atrixer,

You mentioned this to justify the use of a sniper kit. “If engineers are made out to be high-tech inventors, and warriors are made out to be soldiers, then surely the Engineer would use something to give them an ‘edge’, while being physically weaker and with less combat training.”

Maybe I’m concerning myself too much with IRL professions, but soldiers are pretty much the only ones between the two that actually use sniper rifles. Sniper rifles require boat-loads of training.

I completely agree that engineers should use things that give them an edge with less combat training. That’s probably how Anet feels as wel. That’s why we’re given abilities like gadgets, turrets, utility kits, and elixirs. We use these to give us an edge (excluding what might need buffs, of course). Our weapon abilities are influenced by our theme. That’s why we don’t have the rifle abilities of the warrior; we aren’t warriors. Even the flamethrower is used for more than just “burnin’ junk.”

Okay, there’s one guy who uses a sniper rifle who happens to be an engineer. Do you really think that’s what Anet had in mind for the engineer? All of the abilities we have, the wallpapers they put up on the websites, do they really reflect how this engineer looks (I haven’t seen him or don’t remember him)?

This conversation reminds me of one of the events in Malchor’s Leap. I can’t remember their names, but there was an engineer, a warrior, and some other person. The warrior says something like, “This is how you use a cannon,” while the engineer replies, “Well, you wouldn’t have anything to shoot if I hadn’t designed it.” This is how Anet wants engineers to be (as well as myself).

Haette.2701:

“So 3 of 5 of our attacks are close range attacks, despite engineers using a rifle wanting to be long range.”

I can’t accept this argument after seeing what Mesmers do with greatswords.

Stop asking them to ruin an amazing weapon just so you can play sniper with five skills that all do the exact same thing plus different conditions. If you want that we have grenades.

Ugh, every time someone mentions “sniper kit,” I die a little bit inside. I’ve mentioned this in another thread. Where the heck did the idea of a sniper kit for an engineer come from? What about engineers makes anybody think “long-range sniper?” I don’t understand why so many people bring this up. It wouldn’t make any sense for the class to have.

Of course having longer range would benefit us; it would benefit any profession. We’re engineers: we’re supposed to be engineering things. Instead of asking for more range, how about making what we’re supposed to be doing a bit stronger (not that I’m saying anything should be, but it would make more sense to ask for)?

And as for the thought of engineers and warriors switching rifle abilities, the same problem emerges; why would a warrior have these abilities and an engineer not have them?

Everyone mentions that 3/5 rifle abilities are close range; they’re CC and get-away abilities. Yes, they’re short range, but half of the guys you run into are going to try to be in that range.

Alright, I do have a couple concerns here.

The elite skills have already been spoken for: yes, Elixir X is kind of lame, and people have mixed opinions about the mortar. It does have its uses. While it’s true that grenades seem to dwarf its usefulness in many situations, it’s not like you need to use it; let the guy next to you use it while you grenade-spam the fort wall (in the case of WvW, that is), or simply pop its cooldowns and go back to what you were doing. As for supply crate, I can think of quite a few abilities from other professions that are just lame in comparison (imo). And as for its “dullness,” that’s all a matter of opinion. dropping a boat-load of turrets and health packs seems a lot more interesting than “Oh man, signets!”

What I really want to mention is what you say about the aesthetics and the need for a sniper kit. Our skill effects are borrowed or forgettable? Have you picked up the elixir gun? Does any other profession have something as cool-looking as turrets (okay yeah they’re broken right now, but that doesn’t mean they don’t look sweet)? Our kits are ridiculously fun and fun-looking. We are the only class that doesn’t use signets, which has got to be the most God-awful, boring idea for a skill (oh man a button that just gives me stuff, how interesting). Our least interesting abilities are our elixirs, and even they can sometimes do something neat.

Anet even made an animation where you throw the empty elixir to the ground and it smashes after you consume one. Okay, not the most interesting thing in the world, but that’s precisely why it’s so neat; Anet did not need to do that, but the designers probably thought it was a fun little thing to add on.

As far as armor and weapon designs go, that’s not really an engineer-specific issue. That being said, cool-looking rifles, pistols and shields are not in short supply. And have you seen the guild armor choice we have compared to the heavy and light armor? Definitely didn’t get the short straw there. The light chest piece looks like an Old Navy long-sleeve with a giant bib.

And that brings me to a less imortant, but more annoying concern: why does everyone keep mentioning the need for a sniper kit? I don’t understand it. I mean, for its usefulness , I can see why anyone would want that, but I don’t understand why people feel that “sniper” is something an engineer does. Where did this idea come from? Yes, we’re squishier than warriors, but that doesn’t automatically entitle engineers to be turned into rifle-wielding rangers. There are most likely other ways of solving any issues we have other than “More range!” Of course having extreme range is practical. However, an engineer having this doesn’t make sense. When someone says, “I’m an engineer,” do you immediately respond with, “Oh man, can I see your .50 cal?”

People should be worrying less about turning the engineer into something that Anet doesn’t want it to be, and start worrying about improving on what it is supposed to be; an engineer. You are supposed to be building things, not starring in Enemy at the Gates.

Sorry about the rant at the end there (my whole response is a bit of a tangent), but I just don’t understand why so many people associate “sniper” with “engineer.”

Edit: Bit of a wall of text so I’ll throw down a TLDR:
-Supply Crate is awesome
-Mortar has its uses
-Our aesthetics are much more appealing than most other professions in this game (signets are boring and I’m glad we don’t have them). While some of our abilities need some repairs, they are much more fun than what most other professions are given.
-Can everyone please stop asking for a Sniper Kit? Yes, we have rifles; that doesn’t automatically mean we’re Vassili Vaitsev. We’re engineers. We are supposed to be engineering things.

Atrixer.9275:

I really like the steam punk look they have already, it is perfect for Humans in my opinion. However it would make sense to have the Slyvari have aspects of nature in with their designs, the Charr pure black metal, the Norn and icy look and the Asurans a techno-magic look.

I can’t imagine this happening though, other professions will start asking for racial specific designs, where do they stop? I’d much prefer the game developers to focus on balance and bugs for the time being.

Engineer seems to be the only thing that could ask for racially-specific designs. Although there are a few things that come to mind (the “thief buddies” that a thief can summon seem to be only human, unless I have only been running into human thieves), I can’t think of anything the other classes would want that isn’t a complete reach.

At the same time, I personally cannot bring myself to level a ranger other than a Norn or Sylvari, since the profession seems to just hurl “naturey junk” down your throat. Seriously, I don’t remember the “vanilla” ranger being so inevitably nature-oriented. In any case (tangent completed), there doesn’t seem to be many abilities from a necromancer or an elementalist that shout out, “Man, this doesn’t look like a human should have this. I really wish it were more humaney.”

To be honest, I’ve currently been using an elixir gun build, due to the current state of turrets (but man, do I want to use turrets T.T). Maybe it’s just me (and this may be slightly off-topic), but the elixir gun looks like it was made for the Asura.

To be honest, I actually like the grimey, brass-coated look the turrets have now, even with my Asura. I’m sad to admit that I’m a slight sucker for steampunk (the architecture and weapon designs for the Charr give me a raging clue). However, people (not just in this thread, but other similar threads) keep making reference to WoW’s totems, in that it took years for them to implement the different racial designs.

What I’m assuming took them so long was that they didn’t have the designs in game; that had to be put in later, and they probably had bigger problems on their mind. GW2 already has racial turrets, as the OP says. Obviously, the Charr have their turrets (these being the default turret look we have now). The Asura as well as the Sylvari already have potential turret designs in -game. Even one of the skill challenges in Orr involves you fighting an Asuran’s Asura-themed turret.

It’s not that I want Anet to start suddenly worrying about this (there are much more important things for them to do), I’m just surprised that it wasn’t implemented from the very beginning. I’m personally glad that it wasn’t, but I’m still surprised.

Tothaus.4230:

I think the current grenade mechanics are half of what make grenades fun.

Yeah, while I do fully enjoy using grenades under water, pretty much the only thinking involved with grenades is the ground target.

quantum.7586:

This looks good but just be careful that you make sure all your guides are up to date. Sleepytigerz guide for example is really out of date and doesn’t serve any real use to the community outside of generalities about the class and playstyles.

Yea, while I definitely would like to see a compilation, this thread kind of got my hopes up. GW2Engineer’s guide is also ancient. Half of the traits listed either have been merged or don’t exist any longer.

Jona.6810:

Spracket.9604:

Lantz.7240:

I have had a lot of luck using the flame, rocket, and rifle turret to protect points. Most people ignore them and chase me so i mix dodges and shield abilities to keep safe and let my turrets wear them down. With supply drop and the extra turret damage from traits I have a pretty good time with my turrets. Think I’m going to try rifle and elixirs though.

Yes, that’s awesome, and I want to do that as well, but principle simply won’t let me. We aren’t even a month into this game. Two months from now, those players (yourself included) are hopefully going to have much better gear, and their abilities (assuming they’re using damaging utility skills) are going to be stronger. Meanwhile, your turrets are going to be doing the same damage and will have the same defense they did two months prior.

Since he’s talking about protecting points I assume he’s talking about sPvP. The gear is not going to get any better than it is now so your point would be moot.

This isn’t a gear treadmill MMO. Even in WvW it’s pretty easy to cap out or near cap out on your stats early on. Once you do that people aren’t going to keep getting higher and higher stats like other MMO’s.

I will admit, I did derail a bit into PvE. I’m more concerned with turrets in general. Like I said, it’s more an issue of principle than practicality with me. Maybe it is just me, but I can’t stand the idea of an engineer covered in oranges having 2-3 abilities that do the same exact damage as the engineer standing next to him in blues. It’s even more uncomfortable to me that I really don’t see the reason why this is the case. Why can’t they scale? Would they be somehow overpowered if they did?

Lantz.7240:

I have had a lot of luck using the flame, rocket, and rifle turret to protect points. Most people ignore them and chase me so i mix dodges and shield abilities to keep safe and let my turrets wear them down. With supply drop and the extra turret damage from traits I have a pretty good time with my turrets. Think I’m going to try rifle and elixirs though.

Yes, that’s awesome, and I want to do that as well, but principle simply won’t let me. We aren’t even a month into this game. Two months from now, those players (yourself included) are hopefully going to have much better gear, and their abilities (assuming they’re using damaging utility skills) are going to be stronger. Meanwhile, your turrets are going to be doing the same damage and will have the same defense they did two months prior.

ZoGoNDragoN.4873:

By using Turrets, we sacrifice mobility and hope to get some survivality and firepower. However, in the current Turrets rate of fire / damage / health combined, getting Turrets is amazingly weak. Turrets need following fixes :

1. Rocket Turret’s CD is absurdly long. Around 60Sec. Totally unviable in current sPvP system.
2. Net Turret’s rate of fire is too low. 1 shot in 10 Sec? Really?
3. Manually picking Turrets up should give more than 25% CD bonus. How about 40~50%? Considering there is no Turret deploy CD reduction trait, it is valid suggestion I think. However, Healing Turret can be abused by this, so you should find a way to prevent that.
4. All Turrets are too weak even after investing 30 points in Invention trait tree. Turrets should have more HP and defense.
5. Almost all Turret Toolbelt Skills have too long CDs and too negligible effects. Considering the fact that if we deploy Turrets then we cannot use its Toolbelt Skills, Turret Toolbelt Skills need some up-tune.
6. Thumper Turret’s range is pathetic. I tried using it in sPvP and WvW, but both attempt miserably failed. Give it more range, otherwise it should have some kind of multi target CC(like slow).
7. In PvE situation, Turrets have ultra-high priority in aggro table. By applying this system in PvP might help Engineers. For example, how about annoying Mesmer’s illusions and Ranger’s Pet attacking Turrets instead of Engineer himself? Even for short duration. Think about this. It would help Engineer’s survival a little.

8. Turrets do not scale with your gear. I honestly need some explanation as to why this is the case for not only turrets, but minions and ranger pets as well. I mean, it might at least help turrets compete with grenades.
Specifically I’m talking about their damage. Since I first heard about the engineer, the first and only thing I wanted to do was use turrets (Hell, it’s the only thing the website images advertise about them). Then, as I’m on my way into my 70’s I see that the damage in my rocket turret’s tooltip is not changing with my new gear.
I don’t understand it; how does Anet expect me to rationalize an ability that is used almost solely for damage (rifle, rocket, flame and thumper, specifically), but will not get any better from the moment I hit 80 to 5-6 months of upgrades onward?
Yes, their condition damage does scale and for the most part, they have some sort of utility added on (knockback, knockdown, and blind). However, bleed (on a 30 second cd/much easier to stack with a grenade build) and burning (unstackable) are easily accessible with other utilities. This goes for their utilities as well. Blind, knockdown, and knockback are all found in other weapon kits (elixir gun excluded). Why drop a turret that can knock down one target at a time (assuming it’s still up), when I could drop a Big Ol’ Bomb with an AoE knockback? The answer would be much easier if the damage would at least increase higher than when I was wearing 75 blues.
I really hope this is in for a change. I would desperately like to switch back to turrets. I once read a thread where someone compared the turrets to dots, in that they are only there to increase your own damage, not deal the majority of the damage on their own. I appreciated his or her attempt to rationalize the way turrets work, but there’s still one difference; dots have always scaled with your gear.

My Asuran mad scientist!