Guild Wars 2

Last like 5 today have been temple in a row.

yesterday was all temple too

Why even play?

How bad does it look to you guys when gw2 is all proud of their pax tourny with all of its nice coverage and manpower attached to it and the state of the pvp in this game is possibly the worst since WoW days. People need to get fired.

I like how the devs wont touch this topic with a ten foot pole. If i was one of them I’d honestly be embarassed. I know balance is hard and thakittens not as easy as just saying ok lets change this and it will be done tomorrow but man… this is just really REALLY poorly thought out. If I could characterize the balance and meta of this game it is indicative of someone not taking the whole in consideration when making class changes.

My analogy is this: as a sound engineer one of my biggest tasks is to balance the EQ in a live mix so that everything is “balanced” in a way that things sound natural while highliting the qualities of vocals/instrument. I often see rookies boosting and reducing each frequency until it seems ok but doing this for each frequency one at a time. What results is a mess of sounds that dont work well together at all but maybe sound nice individually. This balance has been that. The devs are playing a different game, and that game is called wakamole. I dont have any suggestions but I do know that the state of this PvP game is so SO bad.

Last comment: wtf is with all the cheese builds. fear spam. AoE spam. cc spam and my personal fav pet spam. it makes me seriously wonder what goes on in Anets balance team. I mean how is that fun gameplay. How…

I completely agree, this game has turned me off so much because every patch the imbalances are so insane. Eles are useless.

Lady Sara Goldheart.2764:

Sunni.2948:

I guess I can agree that some builds are basically run almost exclusively with the exception of some variation between the builds. What can be vastly different Is team composition.

Yeah but the thing is, on highest level, the comp is not so different for most teams. This is not good, this is not balance.
Balance means there are various comps with different playstyles and a fair chance on winning. (Can include certain comps which counter each other too, but not others)

I completely agree but! Like 99% of players don’t play at the level where you need to min-max to the degree that the highest level of players need. For the majority of teams interesting comps not only are possible but can be insanely effective. With my team we run unusual comps all the time and almost hit a 40-50 game win streak against some high ranked/ recognizible teams. The thing that wins more games than fotm builds and comps is proper communication/skill. If people reading this thread take anything away from it it should be this: yes there are some weird class imbalances in this meta but! I you play what you want and devote yourself to a positive group of players great things are possible. Don’t fall prey to the fear mongering of the forums

I guess I can agree that some builds are basically run almost exclusively with the exception of some variation between the builds. What can be vastly different Is team composition.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Right now the only way to counter condi spam is with better condi spam and control. Necros have condi spam, boon ripping, and CC without even having to trait.

Even in tpvp if you want to be safe you just roll condition build with CC. Why roll raw damage if you’re just going to get weaken , or blind spammed on you? IMO torment just needs to be dealt with. Crippled needs to be more effective than chill in movement speed effect.

Boons and condition has been the meta of tpvp and spvp. Is this bad? NO. What is bad is that raw damage cannot compete with it.

This is false. A statement made purely by the fear mongering of the current player base. While I agree necro’s are in a stupid place right now both in offense and defense but tpvp teams are absolutely not required to take these heavy condi classes. People get this idea cemented in their head because x amount of people are crying wolf. The balance of the game is in a terrible place granted. That’s the situation because of both players with no imagination and some very questionable game mechanics.

Although wvw zergs is a whole issue on its own. I don’t want to take the stance that “that’s the way it is and always will be” innovation is progress. Acceptance is stagnant. If a massive community of people can’t come up with creative solutions id be very surprised. Gw2 with all of its “new” game play and mechanics still reeks of a dying genre.

Pyriall.5027:

Sunni.2948:

Its sad to admit but spvp is just not fun. Its too much of a zergfest with no thought on gameplay. Its toxic. There has got to be ideas to improve this like a better point allocation ect. The problem with all of Pvp besides balance is the attitude of the general pvper. There is no cooperation, no incentive to play smart. This lack of cordination translates to Tpvp when noobs are rolling kids in spvp running with a zerg and they decide to try tourneys out. The end result is a shallow pvp experience for most of the population that plays and puts many people off. PvP needs not only a mathematical rework but also a conceptual/attitude rework.

Points to consider regarding spvp:

1. Not everyone wants to be competitive
2. Not everyone is going to be good
3. Being associated with 1 and 2 does not mean you don’t want to play the game and have fun.

Spvp zergs are fine for where they are at in hotjoins. I do agree that there needs to be a smoother education process for those wanting to transition into ranked play.

Where I can understand what your saying I disagree with the attitude taken fundementally. People and players (in and out of game) should always be tryin to improve. Game types like hotjoin promote senseless play which is the opposite direction games in 2013 and on should be going.

Another point to consider is that you have a vastly more fun experience fundementally as humans when you cooperate and succeed against heavy odds. It’s programmed into our biology. The mmo genre as a whole is hemmoraging popularity because of its now senseless play. You shouldn’t WANT to say you dont need to improve. That’s the antithesis of progress.

I really hope they don’t reset. There’s no real reason to except punishing players who worked really hard to get there

Id love to get a Devs opinion on this

alemfi.5107:

For now, just don’t play 16-man hot-joins.

5 mans too. 3+ people running blindly from point to point

Exactly. I know the chance of change is low but it really seems like a no brainer to try and promote more diverse gameplay. Why would anyone roll bunker/defensive in spvp currently.

and dont get me started on all INSANE amount of cheese builds right now. Its truely startling

The capping uncapping bonus would just be another incentive to zerg i think. they would cap and then run away to cap the next. There should be a reward for sitting on points trying to defend. As of now the defender bonus is meh because speced bunker your not trying to kill but stall. What if there was a timed bonus for sitting on a point when an enemy is also on that point. Like 5 points that would tick every x seconds?

just a suggestion but there has to be a way to increase the incentive. Right now its widely recognized that spvp isnt very fun and spvp is basically the first taste people get of pvp.

Sometimes it seems like Anet doesnt consider many angles when implementing design.

Its sad to admit but spvp is just not fun. Its too much of a zergfest with no thought on gameplay. Its toxic. There has got to be ideas to improve this like a better point allocation ect. The problem with all of Pvp besides balance is the attitude of the general pvper. There is no cooperation, no incentive to play smart. This lack of cordination translates to Tpvp when noobs are rolling kids in spvp running with a zerg and they decide to try tourneys out. The end result is a shallow pvp experience for most of the population that plays and puts many people off. PvP needs not only a mathematical rework but also a conceptual/attitude rework.

I can see what your saying but I would argue that there is minimal versatility in current play now. Its all 3+ people zerging from one point to another right now. the points for winning are like… terrible providing little incentive except personal satisfaction. Hardly a motivator if you ask me.

Edit: love your name

Why are the benefits of defending a point so low in spvp. It seems like every MMO fails when it comes to balancing points. 20 points for zerging and none for sitting on point defending unless you get kills? Can we get a dev to comment on the reasoning of this?

what about letting custom arenas set their own point allocation.

I saw a dev saying it would be too jarring for new players to get into pvp from pve.
Seems like an weak answer to me.

I will keep this short and to the point. Balance recently has been spiraling out of control. The game mechanics are great but also fundementally flawed I’m terms of class balance. In order to mitigate this inevitable class imbalance a simple split between pve and pve in terms of how some skills work and the math behind them. Please gw2 can’t sustain the negativity facing the state of the game a year after launch.

Defektive.7283:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Defektive.7283:

Allie,

Against a good team right in the beginning, we like to stealth ontop of their necro (or mesmer) and just 100-0 them before they can react. This is the scenario they are worried about. You’re inferring combat takes place in a slow fashion in the beginning. People get gibbed pretty quick in the first fight.

Sure, but then we’re just talking about opportunity cost. You’re dedicating a player to finding a necro to take them out, which pulls that player out of the game. Counter play is something that cannot, and should not, be prevented in the game. One could argue that it’s the whole point of competitive PvP, or what sets competitive PvP apart. You analyze, and adjust to the other teams strategies. Am I wrong?

Also, I was not inferring that combat takes place in a slow fashion. Just fyi

No no no, we’re not dedicating one player to killing a necro. We’re stealthing with 3-4 people, with 10+ seconds of stealth. Targeting the necro. Walking past their team, and gibbing him in under a second.

This is fairly common play in tPvP and is why Necros are freaking out about their survivability in the early game.

If their team comes to res, they have to sacrifice an instant res immediately, or take a ton of cleave damage early in the game.

This isn’t counter play, it’s just the way high level tPvP is if you have a thief on the enemy team.

This forum posting reveled an interesting problem I think many Devs face when balancing MMOs. Allies disconnect in knowlege between how the gamers are playing and how they think we are playing. Like stated earlier Devs will hop in game a few hours when they can to do some testing ect. but they are often unaware of the current meta because they really arnt playing the game as much as other players (also looking at forums, theorycrafting, streaming).

The example here showing that a Dev didnt even consider a whole team stealthing and killing a necro right off the bat so why would they consider that in balancing. Can we really expect the Devs to first hand experience real competitive Tpvp?

When do you think we can expect to see the results?! also, will it be in this thread or a new one? Ive been really into the adrenaline rising videos and excited to see some builds!

Id loveeeeeeee a hammer / mace build. I feel right now warriors best thing going for them is thier control. With your wxpert knowlege defektive hammer is and will be very viable!

Please do a good hammer build for spvp or your sw/mace mace/shield (think that’s the one) I’ve seen you play in tpvp.

Currently I am running your bow sw/shield and it has made me fall in love with my warrior and gw2 again.

Im really enjoying s and tPvp currently but I thought I would offer my thoughts on one improvement that might help. Currently in sPvP teams are more inclined to zerg from one place to another only waiting to cap the base for the points given and there is no incentive to play intellectually at all. If your team wants to counter the zerging by simply backcapping and having a bunker hold it “ie me” that bunker gets minimal compensation for sacrificing a huge portion of the game sitting around. I love the idea of a bunker and I dont mind the sacrifice if it helps the team achieve the goal of winning.

The only problem with my mindset is that I will every game get a fraction of the points the rest of my team and the opposing (even loosing) team will have achieved by zerging or what-have-you furthering the zerg mentality.

My suggestion? make defending worth it, I havent played a MMO yet that has adequately compensated defenders for their diligence. Getting bonus points for a kill wont work however because in GW2 often the bunker will get rolled by 2+ people and his only job is to last as long as possible, obtaining 0 points for doing so. With so many
“innovations” Anet has implemented I am hopefull they will find a creative solution. Especially when so much of their pvp is based around defending something.