Showing Posts For Tellah.8073:
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What’s wrong with dirty fighting? Here’s the thing: If you’re going into combat against someone, whether it be in real life, or a game, you’ve decided that you want to overcome them. Throwing dirt in someone’s eyes and stabbing them in the back may seem dishonorable compared to an open duel to the death, but the end result is fundamentally the same: your opponent is defeated, and likely had the means to stop you.
If you’re going to engage in combat, what you’re doing is both a physical and mental arms race against your opponent. You strive to be faster, stronger, and better geared, all while trying to outwit him as well. If you sneak up on an opponent and catch him off guard, that’s his fault for not watching his flank, or getting tunnel vision, or one of any number of faults.
You don’t win games by preparing yourself for battles you can’t win, you win by preparing in such a way that counters your opponent. I’ve seen some truly awesome point defense (saw a video where a guardian preemptively predicated a fully stealthed team strike and popped his heal to block THE ENTIRE NUKE), and good players will set themselves somewhere they have a large terrain advantage in. There’s nothing wrong with this: it’s the nature of the beast. Honorable combat is fun and all, but if you’re playing SPvP for it, you’re playing the wrong game. This is about teamwork, hit and run tactics, bursts of damage, and clever use of terrain. Organized teams, the ones this game is built for, don’t have issues with overwhelming zergs or the like. They learn how to combat these tactics and adapt.
to me thats called being smart, crafty, tricky, etc, not dirty. and once again its not the players i am criticizing, it is the game mode that promotes it. if 3 players turn a corner and theres 1 enemy of course they will all smash him to pieces. if you run up on a 1v1 of course you are going to help. its dirty but thats just how the game is played because of the way it is designed.
my focus is on the 3 node conquest mode and too many visual obstructions. it removes frontlines and results in constant backshooting and people popping up out of nowhere and overwhelming smaller numbers. if there werent so many obstructions you could see people come and you could disengage, that would be skill. but as it is 3 players pop up from around the corner and blast you away in seconds, thats called random luck and is not fun. if there were front lines and less obstruction backshooting would be rare, but with 3 nodes people are running around everywhere resulting in this all the time
and this is my complaint, not that it occurs at all, but that it occurs almost every battle and the main crux of winning is not personal skill, positioning, constructive teamwork, but instead its who can get the most backshots and who can waylay the opponents with superior numbers. though these should be a factor in the game, it shouldnt be the most important factor
If i want fair 1on1s ill go play on a duel server, its as simple as that,
According to the OP’s logic, I would imagine that a 1v1 dual would still be ‘dirty’ if you stealth or line of sight or teleport or retaliation or anything surprising.
I think OP would prefer a 1v1 golden gun match type with slappers only in one big room with no doorways or stairs. First slap wins.
I think I would be more sympathetic to OP if the issue was “I hate 4v5 matches in solo q,” and not “No fair! You’re a dirty, dirty player for sneaking up on me in pvp and that is why I am losing.”
PVP by it’s very nature is all about being unpredictable/unconventional. You learn to be proactive/reactive or die.
thanks for putting all those words in my mouth. and thanks for completely missing the point of the entire thread, that it isnt about me or you or players, its about the design of conquest that makes 90% of the battles stupidly lopsided or backshooting bonanza’s. i realize these things will happen, but 90% of every battle is like this so i felt compelled to call attention to it
once again this is a video game not world war 2. the purpose of a game is for everyone to have fun not just you. you just want to constantly play ezmode faceroll classes so you can have a huge advantage over the majority of players who are trying to have fun simply because the game mechanics allow it. and somehow you are proud of this which really just shows what kinda person you are and that you are so obsessed with winning some silly little video game youre willing to ruin the experience for everyone else who doesnt play like you and dont mind the game devolving into a faceroll circlejerk.
people like you are a blight on pvp and it seems your self-esteem is so reliant on winning a stupid game i can only guess you have little going for you in real life
You can’t talk about dirty fighting in game like this. This game isn’t balanced for 1v1 so certain classes will have advantage over others, in other words one of them is using ‘dirty fighting’. With this thinking the only honorable fights would be if both players used same class, build, weapons, everything. You should just play for fun and if you can’t do so in normal servers join some dueling ones.
it doesnt matter what you call it, it is what it is. by all human references jumping someone 3v1 or sneaking up and smashing someone while they are distracted is dirty. but i am not criticizing the players (though i couldve worded my OP a little better to reflect that), i am criticizing the structure of the gamemode that makes it happen.
for example (class balance aside) if there were only 1 node to fight over the battles would be far more pleasant, over 2 it would be also, as our backs would be much less vulnerable. in 3node conquest there are no front lines and people are just flying around everywhere leading to numerous backshooting ganks. if it were a deathmatch it would nearly eliminate these occurrences because people wouldnt be directed and distracted by node captures, they would generally stick together and be paying far more attention to their surroundings and be far more hesitant before jumping into battle. this is all speculation of course
Honor in fighting? In warfare?
Someone’s been watching too many movies…
video games = warfare?
someones been playing to many video games
Im just going to say OP, if you want to gauge your personal skill so badly against another person on a 1 on 1 why are you joining a team play pvp mode?
You are calling dirty fighting to team play. just like those dummies that go “URR DURR 3vs1” what were we supossed to do? Make a line and wait until 1 stops fighting so we can join? That’s what duel servers are for.
this is not anything personal against anyone… its an observation of how the design of 3node conquest encourages and results in constantly a lopsided dirty style of battle. if you look at gw1 everyone started off on an equal footing. nobody got walloped from behind unsuspectingly, you didnt get snuck up on in the middle of a fight, you knew where everyone was, and the classes were relatively balanced
im not saying anything against the players. players gonna play. its the design of conquest
Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.
to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.
furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.
so because people enjoy winning in their chosen hobby they need to "examine your priorities in life. " nop sorry scrub
you have all the tools the enemy does , just because you chose to handicap yourself like the massive scrub that you are doesn’t mean everyone else has to
it is this mentality that makes pvp stink. youre basically saying just pick the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find and go out and have “fun” winning with a completely unmerited advantage while making anyone who doesnt pick these builds miserable in the process, likely resulting in them leaving with a very bitter experience. on top of this you proclaim this childish mentality with twerpish arrogance as if you yourself actually did anything to deserve it. amazing.
this reminds me of the movie billy madison when he was destroying a buncha kids at dodgeball and thinking he was some big tough guy because of it. dont be that guy
you have the option to play "the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find " just like your opponent , if you choose to be a scrub and think that picking a kittenty build somehow makes you better at the game that’s your fault for playing like a scrub.
their is nothing unfair about pvp here every class has viable competitive builds and everyone has access to said builds class and equipment , if you go into a game with the scrub mentality don’t expect everyone to be a scrub like you , some people play to win
so youre saying everyone should roll a hammer/bow regen warrior and thats your idea of a fun game, but thats your choice if you want to play ezmode at the expense of the integrity of the game, but how can you seriously get any sense of enjoyment out of winning if know you have a blatantly large advantage that has nothing to do with your own personal contribution?
its like being allowed to pick any pieces you want in a chess game, your opponent decides to pick the normal set up as not to create major anomolies in the gameplay, and you decide to pick all queens. you proceed to obliterate your opponent and then get in your opponents face bragging about how good you are and its all about winning and tell him to read some stupid book and everyone else is a scrub and its their fault for not picking all queens. this is your idea of fun?
Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.
to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.
furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.
so because people enjoy winning in their chosen hobby they need to "examine your priorities in life. " nop sorry scrub
you have all the tools the enemy does , just because you chose to handicap yourself like the massive scrub that you are doesn’t mean everyone else has to
it is this mentality that makes pvp stink. youre basically saying just pick the biggest ezmode faceroll build you can find and go out and have “fun” winning with a completely unmerited advantage while making anyone who doesnt pick these builds miserable in the process, likely resulting in them leaving with a very bitter experience. on top of this you proclaim this childish mentality with twerpish arrogance as if you yourself actually did anything to deserve it. amazing.
this reminds me of the movie billy madison when he was destroying a buncha kids at dodgeball and thinking he was some big tough guy because of it. dont be that guy
Im sorry but you people who keep goin on about muh win and suggesting sun tzu and whatnot are taking this game too seriously. This is a bloody video game not world war 2. If you get a genuine sense of accomplishment from winning a pvp game you may want to step back and examine your priorities in life.
to further illustrate my point, the random and chaotic nature of how pvp battles take place could be likened to taking all the pieces of a chess game in your hands and dropping them onto the board all at once and wherever they land is how the game starts off. It will always result in random disadvantaged and outnumbered situations and relegates the actual skill of the players to very small significance. It is having 3 nodes that makes this happen. if there were 2 this would be far less of a problem i think.
furthermore because of the large disproportion between the viability of classes and builds plus the tendency of players to want advantages beyond their skills means that 1 side can have a handful of queens while the other side has a handful of pawns.
This thread is hilarious…
You guys are a bunch of meanies!
NO HONOR
oh dont get me wrong im completely assimilated into this playstyle. ive backshot many o people. ive been part of the 5v1 gank many times. it just sorta dawned on me recently how cheap it is and how frequently it occurs, and how this conquest mode encourages this to happen simply by its design. than comparing it with gw1 i thought dang at least then everyone started out on an equal footing.
dishonorable win > honorable loss
i dont really get why people would want to win so badly when the rewards are nothing but simple aesthetics. id much prefer a close loss than a blowout win because everyone on 1 team was running faceroll fotm builds and the other team was just trying to have fun.
ive recently come to see that 95% of battles in conquest mode involves ignoble styles of engagement.
there will rarely ever be a “fair fight” because of the way this game mode is set up. 1 side will always be outnumbered as random people pop up unnoticed out of nowhere (thanks to the maps having so many obstructions) and proceed to jump their opponents like a buncha gangsters.
almost all fights results in someone sneaking up behind their back in the middle of a fight and blasting them away. thats the most successful tactic you can utilize yet in real life thats the dirtiest way to fight imaginable.
it doesnt matter how much skill you have, you will almost never win a 1v2 meaning numbers are everything. the major determining factor of winning is who will have the most sneak attacks and how many goons will show up to outnumber the opponent.
to me this is trashy. theres no honor in this, i hardly ever feel any pride for winning a battle because they are always unfair settings. the fights are so chaotic and fluxuating in numbers so often you wouldnt even be able tell if it was a fair fight
i always considered node defense an honorable activity, but here protecting a node is pointless unless youre a dedicated tank because the nodes are so small and they get neutralized so fast. anyone should be able to fight on the node and keep it defended, but with this its impossible, 1 wrong dodge and the points already half way neutralized and most classes need way more space to fight than what is offered.
the 3 node approach has people buzzing around everywhere and the terrain is so terribly obstructive its constantly resulting in unsuspecting gangbangs out of nowhere and sneak up blowaways on already engaged fighers 90% of the game.
i hope a deathmatch mode will come soon. in gw1 you had your crew they had theirs, numbers were even, you saw all your enemies etc and strategy ensued. what we have in conquest is prevalence of the lowliest form of trash fighting ive ever witnessed in an mmo.
ps. thank you anet for all that you do
edited to be less abrasive
(edited by Tellah.8073)
funnest thing id do with flamewall in pvp is in d/f, drop earth sig immobilize, burning speed and drop flamewall while charging and if i did it right they were stuck burning in the middle of a flaming cross. looked cool but thats about it.
i know it was mentioned a couple times already but,
new players need their own servers (r1-r10)
i dont find it fun stomping new players and im very certain they dont like it either
i dont understand why ele has such low innate survivability. mesmers can stealth and confuse with clones, necro has a whole extra lifebar, but what exactly is ele supposed to do to survive the massive dps output of this game? the xxx3030 boonstack build is obsolete and makes you work twice as hard for half the results. anything other than this build you die so quick thakittens impractical.
ele could really use more survivability. there’s just no payoff for being so easy to kill
in my estimation, the best way to encourage more variety would be to nerf the top builds into mediocrity.
i enjoy trying out non-popular builds like turret engi, mantra or condi mesmer, banner warrior, melee ranger, glass staff ele, etc, but once an elite build player comes along and proceeds to obliterate me it seem pointless, especially since 75%+ of pvprs use them.
unfortunately i dont see this happening considering how the pvp community absolutely freaks out over the slightest nerf, so basically the only other option is to buff unused builds which results in an arms race which leads to more gimmicky insta-gib/perma-evade/condi flood/super tank type of builds in order to be on par with the other already strong builds.
there are lots of fun builds to play with, sadly the op cookie-cutter builds denies the ability for them to be a pragmatic option
Yes, instead of making everything fun and interesting. Lets Nerf what is interesting to the ground so it sucks like everything else.
Buys FF14, Hopes for EQNext
No, when you do that you pretty much make people want to play other games, as a man whose played most MMOs, one thing that scares me the most is when I finally build a character I like and things I build were immediately destroyed in a build. It honestly makes me WANT TO QUIT AND NEVER COME BACK, even if I spent 500$ in the gem store, if balance is going to be done this way I will take my money elsewhere.
the only reason so many other builds suck is because 1 build is so good that everyone uses it and it negates any other build from being practical. if this 1 build werent such a shining star than all other builds would have a lot more usage by default.
personally i dont find if fun or interesting fighting endless clones running the same top-tier faceroll build over and over. it makes is so you have to run the same builds or else you will just get butchered repeatedly.
but seeing how you reacted just by the mention of nerfs, there is no way this would be done because of how volatile the pvp community is
in my estimation, the best way to encourage more variety would be to nerf the top builds into mediocrity.
i enjoy trying out non-popular builds like turret engi, mantra or condi mesmer, banner warrior, melee ranger, glass staff ele, etc, but once an elite build player comes along and proceeds to obliterate me it seem pointless, especially since 75%+ of pvprs use them.
unfortunately i dont see this happening considering how the pvp community absolutely freaks out over the slightest nerf, so basically the only other option is to buff unused builds which results in an arms race which leads to more gimmicky insta-gib/perma-evade/condi flood/super tank type of builds in order to be on par with the other already strong builds.
there are lots of fun builds to play with, sadly the op cookie-cutter builds denies the ability for them to be a pragmatic option
its not just for subs, the idea is to destabilize the playerbase and generate negative publicity. constantly parade and illustrate every issue in front of the eyes of the forum readers day after day fostering negativity. attempt to build enmity between the players and the developers via harsh scathing criticism, hopefully resulting in pressured/rushed/uninspired patches that will generally get negative reception from the already embittered players.
it is more about undermining the competitor than simply stealing a few customers
I’m pretty sure Blizzard must be paying huge $$$ to demoralizers to scare the 10k sPvP players left back to the non existent WoW eSport.
naw, it wouldnt cost that much to hire a handful of overtly social keyboard warriors and the amount of chaos they can cause would be well worth it. gw2 is in a competitive market, and if it only takes a few opinion leaders to stir the forums into a frenzy, (especially in the pvp demographic where everyones already constantly on edge) than the amount of negative publicity generated against your competitor is well worth the cost
People become unhappy and dissatisfied with a game that we play so that makes us subverters paid to bomb gw2 with negativity? I am starting to think that Anet paid you to make this thread.
no you are not the subverter, the subverter is a high profile opinion leader who gets the ball rolling by exacerbating issues we already know exists with new and improved adjectives, then all the mindless pawns follow suite and a sea of forum qq ensues.
the current meta is a different issue, the issue im addressing is that there is a systematic influx of large-scale qq every time there is a patch which is heavily demoralizing to the community (and i would imagine the devs who spent all that time working on something just to be blasted with 300 replies of angry criticism) which leads me to believe its a planned event so that the game never feels like its progressing and that we should all go back to playing (ahem) wow
Isn’t this thread subversive in the exact same way? Belittling opinions of a demographic through passive aggressive remarks?
if i were being subversive, i wouldnt want the game to work. if the pvp community showed a little more repect and gratitude, than i could only guess that devs might be slightly more motivated to work on pvp with positive outcomes.
what im pointing out is that this demographic is the one causing the biggest problems because of the generally mean-spirited aura surrounding it. no i dont think anet staff are saints, no i dont think the game is perfect, im simply pointing out the lack of common courtesy amongst the community and the perpetual demoralization that it causes.
i see staff making informative, very pleasant, non-scathing posts about whatever, and i see the pvp community erupt in ignorant attacks and slander about stuff they have absolutely no clue about every time, and then you expect this will somehow yield positive results.
It’s subversive because you’re not arguing, but you’re writing off. This is evident in how cherrypick among facts. Players aren’t trained professionals, so you will hear ignorance from them them but there are constructive feedback threads and responses from those very players. I’d use Xeph’s thread as an example, but I’m not sure that ANet wants me to believe it exists anymore. I’ve made several threads in vain of being constructive as well.
i dont think you understand what subversive means.
if i were writing these opinions off, id be saying the game is perfect and you have no reason to complain, but im not. im saying the manner by which you viciously attack people youve never met and dehumanize them into your personal programming puppet slaves and verbally lash out and discredit all the work theyve poured into this game over the years with all-encompassing miserable basement tantrums, all following suite with a few “opinion leaders”, will create a bulwark of mutual distrust and contempt which will only lead to decay.
Isn’t this thread subversive in the exact same way? Belittling opinions of a demographic through passive aggressive remarks?
if i were being subversive, i wouldnt want the game to work. if the pvp community showed a little more repect and gratitude, than i could only guess that devs might be slightly more motivated to work on pvp with positive outcomes.
what im pointing out is that this demographic is the one causing the biggest problems because of the generally mean-spirited aura surrounding it. no i dont think anet staff are saints, no i dont think the game is perfect, im simply pointing out the lack of common courtesy amongst the community and the perpetual demoralization that it causes.
i see staff making informative, very pleasant, non-scathing posts about whatever, and i see the pvp community erupt in ignorant attacks and slander about stuff they have absolutely no clue about every time, and then you expect this will somehow yield positive results.
its just too obvious to me now, anytime pvp is worked on at all, even after a tournament where no changes happened, the forums erupt in incessant qq and theres always a key couple of posters who touch off the firestorm, and then everyone else jumps aboard the misery train. it seems they even have multiple accounts to post on. it has to be artificial.
everytime anet so much as breathes in the general direction of pvp the forums get flooded with qq tantrum threads with 300 replies of i quit, fire the devs etc. and you expect them to want to spend more of their valuable time on this aspect of the game which doesnt even generate revenue?
jon gives a much anticipated post and what happens? more qq, flaming bashing scoffing and bitter remarks. kitten if you think you can do such a better job by all means start your own game. as it stands hardly a one of you know a dam thing about programming so you have absolutely no clue what youre talking about when you QQ for nerfs or changes.
and i could give a crap less about what you paid. 60 dollars is basically 1 days pay. you paid anet 1 days pay, and now you think anet staff are slaves to your every emotional whim for all eternity.
i know the state of pvp isnt that great right now, but holy moly the pvp community is such a scathing bitter eternally unsatisfied mob who the heck would wanna do anything for you. everytime you get something you cry and whine and moan, even when you get something you ask for, the most positive gesture you make is silence.
people take a step back and read what you are writing to and about other human beings whom you want to help you. keep your crappy little throwaway remarks and passive/overtly aggressive insults to yourself and stop being such snotty spoiled little brats. maybe then anet might be more willing to work on your behalf
well yes thats understandable, but thats something to be expected when trying to predict things a year down the road. highfalutin ideas are met with the realities of budget/time/programming restraints and things become impossible to achieve because of the limited resources at hand.
and we got e-sport and it was met with (of course) more massive threads of scathing negative comments, bitter criticism, flaming against devs, scoffing and bashing with hardly a peep of gratitude (and hardly a dollar made in revenue).
so whats the point? anything they do is met with heavy qq no matter what. from an economic view spvp is nothing but a ceaselessly discontented black hole of anet resources which provides absolutely no return for the company except more discontent
Well i don’t know what to tell you. All i can say is first impressions are VERY important and when you make promises, you better back it up from the start or this kind of negative atmosphere is inevitable. If they had launched the game with all the core features the negative remarks would be not so common.
People are so fed up they show their frustration in every chance they get now.
well if youre not willing to understand human nature than you will remain frustrated and see an illusion that they maliciously lied and had their fingers crossed and are laughing at home playing with a wheelbarrel full of cash.
and lemme fix your last statement:
People are ALWAYS fed up, they show their frustration in every chance they get ALWAYS
well yes thats understandable, but thats something to be expected when trying to predict things a year down the road. highfalutin ideas are met with the realities of budget/time/programming restraints and things become impossible to achieve because of the limited resources at hand.
and we got e-sport and it was met with (of course) more massive threads of scathing negative comments, bitter criticism, flaming against devs, scoffing and bashing with hardly a peep of gratitude (and hardly a dollar made in revenue).
so whats the point? anything they do is met with heavy qq no matter what. from an economic view spvp is nothing but a ceaselessly discontented black hole sucking down anet resources which provides absolutely no return for the company except more discontent
(edited by Tellah.8073)
seriously its like an audience demanding angrily that a musician create better songs, and every time the musician creates something the audience erupts in boos and throws trakitten him, and then demands he go back and do it again, and this is supposed to go on for years cause they paid for a ticket one time.
Maybe the musician should stop making crappy songs then.
maybe the audience should stop demanding the perfect song that will leave them in a state of bliss for all eternity, and perhaps realize that they themselves are not musicians and do not understand how complex the process is, and that the musician can only do so much with the time and resources allotted to him
and i wouldnt expect the musician to be eager to make better music cause all the audience does is trash him no matter what he does
As long as the musician wants to live from his music then yes, he is expected to create something the audience likes.
This is a business. Anet needs players to be happy if they want to keep making a profit out of this game. Whoever thinks the only income Anet made from this game is the initial 60 bucks is just plain ignorant.
see, this is exactly the type of attitude that is the problem, and likely the reason why there’s really no point for anet staff to post in these forums. there is literally no end to the rabid qq from the pvp community and hardly a hint of any gratitude.
you see, the devs were posting in the forums the last few months, warrior and necro got buffed cause they were complaining the most, they got tourneys going, got soloq going, and without flinching the pvp community went straight to whining and flaming over the next set of problems with hardly a second of contentment in between. if i were a dev id say screw you guys, you can eat a condi and 4-second stun sandwich till this game is switched off for all i care
seriously its like an audience demanding angrily that a musician create better songs, and every time the musician creates something the audience erupts in boos and throws trakitten him, and then demands he go back and do it again, and this is supposed to go on for years cause they paid for a ticket one time.
Maybe the musician should stop making crappy songs then.
maybe the audience should stop demanding the perfect song that will leave them in a state of bliss for all eternity, and perhaps realize that they themselves are not musicians and do not understand how complex the process is, and that the musician can only do so much with the time and resources allotted to him
and i wouldnt expect the musician to be eager to make better music cause all the audience does is trash him no matter what he does
i dont think pvprs realize how whiney and eternally unsatisfied they really are. i mean how eager would you be to cater to a group of people who nonstop demands changes with angry bitter posts and attacks developers with scathing mean-spirited criticism on a daily basis cause you paid 60 bucks 10 months ago.
every time a patch comes out, with or without devs posting on forums, the pvp forums are flooded with angry qq tantrum posts that get 300 replies of i quit, fire the devs, devs are this devs are that, etc, without an ounce of gratitude, and you expect them to want to pour more of their valuable time into this aspect of the game which doesnt even generate revenue?
seriously its like an audience demanding angrily that a musician create better songs, and every time the musician creates something the audience erupts in boos and throws trakitten him, and then demands he go back and do it again, and this is supposed to go on for years cause they paid for a ticket one time.
a target-player only option definitely needs to be in the game
this game is too fast-paced to have to tab through a bunch of pets. ive so many times been killed or halved before i can even target my enemy
the idea of it is sooo dumb that i could be staring right into the face of my enemy yet i have to hit tab 4 times before i can actually attack him
9 times out of 10 clicking is impossible. try clicking on a ranger with his 4 spirits and pet bunched on you
mesmer is worse with the constant stealthing. i could spend whole fights just trying to target a mesmer. as soon as id target him, hed stealth and it starts all over again
this gives ai running classes too big of an advantage. they get a valuable 2-5+ seconds where their enemies are playing against the ui instead of playing against them, and we all know that it only takes a few seconds to die or take massive damage
so please please please make this an option. it would increase the enjoyability of pvp 100% for me. and thank you anet staff for all that you do
yes, if they can dish out so much dps, they need to be squishy. thats the trade off when you spec glass cannon, you die quick. signet warriors are putting out heavy burst yet are very tanky. to be fair im seeing this done with other combos.. tanky heal sig with hammer/mace etc. i seen this last night, a tanky sig warrior was absolutely walloping me with hard crits and cc but i couldnt get him down past 1/5 of his hp after full dps rotations. so its not the condis its the tankiness
i really dont understand how you can find it within you to justify 400-1k healing per second for any build for anyone. healing signet should be dropped to 250-300 per second, or make it 400 every time you land an attack (1 sec cd). being able to passively heal yourself for up to 5k per 5 seconds without giving up any offensive posturing whatsoever is just stupid
it is not the condi that is the problem, its the defense that is coupled with it.
you can run full condi with high toughness, naturally high hp, heavy armor, and a healing signet which is healing for a minimum of 2k hp every 5 seconds completely passive and uninterruptible (not including banner regen or dolyak runes)
and yes they are weak to conditions but that only further exacerbates the horrible condition based meta we are experiencing.
i have played warrior plenty, i was one moaning for buffs, but the tankiness, more specifically the healing signet, is providing too much defense for such high offensive capabilities.
so my options are spec some gimpy condi removal spec (has to be heavy removal or its pointless) that cant put a dent in his defenses and die slowly to reapplications which will easily overrun my removals
or
run extreme glass cannon and maybe make him actually flinch before he condi-bursts me down in 5 seconds and his health easily regens back to full.
youre basically telling me to adapt to something being invincible and having massive burst. how exactly does that work?
condi warriors would be fine if you could actually kill them. the toughness/regen/healing signet is what makes them op.
my first burst may hurt them a bit but if it takes an average of 10 seconds for the burst to recharge, they regen a minimum of 4k health, thats 2k health every 5 seconds completely passive and coupled with the ability to dish out loads of condi damage at the same time. thats just too much
inb4 spec condi removal
why do i have to roll an awkward crappy condi removal spec sacrificing utilities and damage just to survive a condi warrior who is dropping people like flies, and plus, as i said, unless you are packing some seriously high burst, you wont kill them anyway
saying it “wont work” is seeing things in black and white. it could be fun for some or for many, people have different tastes and anet should try to cater to all of them by giving us more options instead of forcefeeding us the same boring conquest mode.
i mean i like pizza but cant eat it every day. give us the option for death match, ctf, no downed, no nodes, no cannons, race locking, rank requirements, spec/class blocking, friendly fire, etc. just give us some variety, not everyone likes the same thing. just make it known that classes will not be balanced around these custom game modes.
it doesnt seem like it would be that difficult from a developing standpoint but i have no idea how that stuff works and it seems even the smallest changes require heavy resources
i think they could solve a lot of problems by simply increasing all character model size. to me norn size should be the average. when i play a norn i actually feel like somethings there, i can see the armor, i can clearly see his animations and i dont disappear in the chaos. everythone else besides charr just looks like different colered stick figures
increasing model size would help with a few problems. spectators might actually be able to see whats going on in large battles and players wouldnt disappear in a sea of aoe, fighters could more clearly see enemy animation increasing counterplay, and it would make the battles appear slower and less chaotic.
Stop your whining condition warriors are weak and do next to no damage. Maybe in your 1v1 environment or without ANY team support you may eventually die to one. This is a complete L2P issue.
yes i guess im just having hallucinations when i see them pancaking anyone that isnt completely specced for removal. i guess them topping the scoreboards, running with full 25 sigil buff the whole game and laughing at (ive literally seen this) any damage from anyone who isnt all out glass cannon/condi burst, well im just whining and need to l2p
ive got hit with a pin down and combustive shot at full health without removal and got away only to die because they last sooo dang long. thats it! 2 buttons and im done
thats just stupid
i think i heard about condition duration decrease build. if you dont want to build against conditions, it doesnt mean they should be nerfed…
so everyone has to spec and gear for condi removal (sacrificing offense and good specs) in order to not be utterly wasted by condi specs who can go full burst.
whats the point of even pvp’ing if your only option is fotm faceroll ezmode or counter fotm faceroll ezmode
Warriors can only apply bleeding and burning and some tormet (only offhand sword) .
We cant spam it.Remove conditions after you got pin downed + sword + impale maby Riposte (if you do see a warrior blocking with a sword > dont attack ? .. you dont range a thief using dagger strom..
So after you removed it:
pin down 25 sec cooldown
Impale 15 sec cooldown
Riposte 15sec cooldown (dont attack it)Now your free to lock him down > burst
I dont think this is a warrior problem, if you have a hard time against a condition warrior i would love to see you going down on necro/engies spamming it.
Lets not forget the blind, huge fire aoe, hard hitting bow aoe, and the pin down/flurry combo, all with the mobility of sword 2 if needed, if you dont have removal thats more than enough. plus if i get a chance to actually burst it does squat to their high toughness/armor/health and regens back up in about 5 seconds. The hardest ive hit one of them is for 6-7k with a full gc kill shot, not enough to even make them flinch
You can actually burst necros/engies and they might actually have to get defensive but warriors no, its all offense while barely having to worry about defense at all.
I would take Troll Unguent over Healing Signet any day of the freakin’ week. Heck, I’d take Healing Spring, too, with all the blast finishers warriors get. Don’t complain to me about healing. When warriors can bunker like a ranger, then you have my permission to QQ.
This gives DPS warriors a small amount of sustain in small fights, and a trivial amount of healing under concentrated burst in team fights. Tougher warriors finally have a heal that provides valuable heal-over-time when stacked with other warrior healing abilities. This is a good thing.
Listen to tellah. The build he just said heals way more then rangers. Also use banner of tatics with it you can get up to around 1,588 healing power. Also you get 3 passive heals adrenal healing the signet and regen. You are healing insanely with it
Banner regen builds mean not only is your DPS beyond laughable but you’re also nowhere near as good a bunker as a Guardian or Engi. Any amount of strong condition damage would destroy this, in fact a bit of poison wrecks it completely.
yes this is the weakness of the build, condi specifically, and thats only because condi is so ridiculously OP atm, heck i dont even spec cleansing ire when warrior bunking cause its just too clunky and hard to land instantly when you need it. but without massive conditions or huge glass cannon +2 player focus… you aint gonna put a dent in me
run clerics amulet, healing runes of some sort or dolyak runes, life/endurance sigils, x/x/30/30/x, shield, warhorn (converting condi into boon (vigor))
go bunker
*oh yea banner spec/tactics banner
(edited by Tellah.8073)
cool story bro
but im not biased because i play most classes, and i play mediocre somewhat gimmicky specs and switch often instead of playing the top tier copypasta specs for months straight. the only thing i wont play is fotm specs.
and even after all your statistical observations (which in the end had nothing to do with the main subject), that doesnt change the fact that condi builds have flooded the meta because they have large inherent advantages and gives forward motion to the faceroll win-monkeys who just wanna run around in ezmode
But you see, your entire post shows the real problem.
For one thing, you could be biased but not willing to accept it (we all are, to some degree), but I don’t have the ability to say that. What I can say is that the math shows that power is far superior to precision, and that’s why the meta is wrong, even though in the post right before your last one you stated that you couldn’t believe that the meta was wrong, that it was unrealistic.
(Before I should continue, I should mention that I don’t use statistics… And that I don’t have to. But it’s an option, albeit a tedious one)
You have to understand that my observations are entirely relevant. The only reason you believe that condi builds are so OP, as you’ve mentioned, is because they’re part of the meta. You don’t know why they’re part of the meta though, even though I’ve been the one providing tons of factual evidence within this thread to dispel any ideas that they’re as powerful as they’re considered to be. You can choose to believe that the meta is powerful, or open your horizons greatly and believe that we only think that the meta is powerful.
that made no sense at all. condition specs are op. everyone is running condition specs. top teams are running condition specs. you can be tanky and melt away foes while power specs drop like flies. fotm condition specs are basically power specs with defense. they have high burst and heavy defense. this is the formula which made numerous specs in gw2 pvp history OP, defense including evades and stealth. if you cant simply observe with your eyes all the condi builds and how powerful they are in pvp than i dont know what to tell you
cool story bro
but im not biased because i play most classes, and i play mediocre somewhat gimmicky specs and switch often instead of playing the top tier copypasta specs for months straight. the only thing i wont play is fotm specs.
and even after all your statistical observations (which in the end had nothing to do with the main subject), that doesnt change the fact that condi builds have flooded the meta because they have large inherent advantages and gives forward motion to the faceroll win-monkeys who just wanna run around in ezmode
(edited by Tellah.8073)
yes im aware that condi is out of control, but coupled with the warrior healing signet/high toughness/naturally high hp… you can barely put a dent in them before they melt you away (in seconds without condi removal)
i see high lvl condi wars and they completely decimate everyone. most their team follows them around like stink on poop cause they never die, so it turns into a ridiculous invincible zergfest and you can do nothing but just leave.
if you can melt people away in seconds, than you need to be able to die without a 4man focus
I already told you what is the issue here, and explain why warrior class is not the problem, its the condition damage stat that allows people to make tanky offensive characters, that has nothing to do with warrior, if conditions were balanced then this couldnt have happened.
To put another example i have a bunker mesmer that relies on the same mechanics of this kind of warrior, the thing is mesmer has acces to a lot of protection so.. just so you think about it.
thats why i didnt say warriors are op, i said condi warriors are op. warriors just have a huge advantage with healing signet/toughness/hp on top of oppressive condi damage. even heavy condi necros could get cc’d, but tanky condi warriors are nearly invincible . necros got nerfed but this ridiculous warrior spec has gone seemingly unnoticed. personally i think the healing signet heals for too much. with banner regen/dolyak runes/healing amulet… you can hit almost 700 regen per second, and I wouldnt care if they werent dropping me like a cheap filipino massage therapist. so yes this mainly concerns condition proliferation, but coupled with warrior survivability its way over the top
So this is a dirty propaganda to nerf warriors?
you never know how anet will fix things. atm im sure there is enough public outcry about conditions to merit a change. hopefully any nerfs will fall solely on conditions and not classes themself. but either way… ive seen too many condi warrior tearing up the dance floor while rarely going below 50% health so something has to give.
Condition damage is so easy to achieve because you only need one stat, and that is Condition damage, while power damage requires Power, Crit chance and Crit damage.
So you can wear a shamans amulet and have all you need to do great condi damage, have healing power and amazing toughness, the result is a tank that can do amazing condition damage.
This is a serious problem right now with the game ite clearly unbalanced towards condition damage because of this, but this is not a warrior problem its a general problem.
Alright, let’s put it this way.
I plugged in some numbers into my spreadsheet, and I found that 500 power improves your average damage amount by approximately an additional 54.6%.
Now, for conditions (excluding Fear), I found that 500 condition damage improves:
- Bleed by 58.8%
- Burn by 38.1%
- Poison by 59.5%
- Confusion by 57.7%Now, granted, adding 500 CD most of those conditions above increases damage by a slightly larger percentage than does power to overall direct damage (excluding burn, of course). However, there are really only three viable amulets for condi builds: Carrion, Shaman, and Rabid (at least, those are the three most commonly seen amulets).
Now, Carrion is a nice little amulet that turns out to be nearly useless. For both warriors and necros, health tends to be so high after buildcrafting that typically additional toughness is going to be desirable over additional health. Remember, also, that if your health is too high, your heal is almost negligible in the calculation of DPS. But what about the Power? That’s useful, right? Well, it would be to a direct damage build. Let’s look at the necro’s scepter, for example. Its coefficients are awful; the first two attacks in the auto-attack chain each have a rather unimpressive coefficient of .35. This tends to be the case with the majority of condition-applying weapons (the warrior’s sword is a little different, but it’s also a melee weapon, remember). Anyhow, a 62% damage increase on a base 200 damage attack (324 damage) isn’t exactly impressive, so the power is practically negligible as well. So that leaves us with just the condition damage, which is fairly good but requires a fairly useless first two stats.
The second amulet, Shaman’s… Christ, that’s an awful amulet to QQ about. At first glance, it might seem okay. 569 toughness gives Necros ~23.6% more damage reduction, and Warriors ~21.1% damage reduction. The condition damage isn’t bad either. So what’s the problem? Healing power. Healing power is the problem.
Healing power is currently one of the poorest stats in the game. 798 Healing Power currently improves my heal in my thief build by 11%, while the same amount of vitality (an essential defensive stat) makes my heal 42.5% worse. On the other hand, if you had 798 condition damage, you improve the power of your bleeds (for instance) by ~93.9%. I mean- I hate to be harsh, but unless you’re specifically going for being a bunker build, amulets that give you a lot of healing power are absolutely, thoroughly useless, and it’s stupid to even consider using them. For it to start mattering, you have to be healing a ton.
So that leaves us with Rabid Amulet. The toughness improves damage reduction by the same amount that Shaman’s does. Precision is a fairly weak stat (in both condi builds and in general), so it increases direct damage by a fairly meager amount, ~13%. However, the precision does allow you to use “on-crit” sigils fairly effectively; Sigils of Earth, Ice, Purity, and Nullification all become fairly useful options for a player to use. Remember that this comes at the cost of about 50% less direct damage, but then again, 50% doesn’t matter when you’re hardly dealing any direct damage anyways. Finally, as with Carrion, the condition damage is great.
In all honesty, none of the amulets are as good as they’re said to be. We could compare the three that were talked about, for example, to Soldier’s Amulet. Soldier’s increases damage by ~90.9% and damage that is able to be taken (not including healing) by ~96.5%. You want to see a real tanking amulet? That’s the one right there.
The truth of the matter is that conditions are not OP, most people just frankly suck at dealing with them. L2P fools.
and so im supposed to take from this that everything’s alright?
the massive influx of condi builds and the 1st hand observations of condi builds dominating the meta are all just figments of my imagination and i just need to l2p?
the fact that top teams have turned heavily to condi builds are all just a random twist of fate?
cmon now lets be reasonable
yes im aware that condi is out of control, but coupled with the warrior healing signet/high toughness/naturally high hp… you can barely put a dent in them before they melt you away (in seconds without condi removal)
i see high lvl condi wars and they completely decimate everyone. most their team follows them around like stink on poop cause they never die, so it turns into a ridiculous invincible zergfest and you can do nothing but just leave.
if you can melt people away in seconds, than you need to be able to die without a 4man focus
I already told you what is the issue here, and explain why warrior class is not the problem, its the condition damage stat that allows people to make tanky offensive characters, that has nothing to do with warrior, if conditions were balanced then this couldnt have happened.
To put another example i have a bunker mesmer that relies on the same mechanics of this kind of warrior, the thing is mesmer has acces to a lot of protection so.. just so you think about it.
thats why i didnt say warriors are op, i said condi warriors are op. warriors just have a huge advantage with healing signet/toughness/hp on top of oppressive condi damage. even heavy condi necros could get cc’d, but tanky condi warriors are nearly invincible . necros got nerfed but this ridiculous warrior spec has gone seemingly unnoticed. personally i think the healing signet heals for too much. with banner regen/dolyak runes/healing amulet… you can hit almost 700 regen per second, and I wouldnt care if they werent dropping me like a cheap filipino massage therapist. so yes this mainly concerns condition proliferation, but coupled with warrior survivability its way over the top
i play all classes but i dont spec fotm
yes im aware that condi is out of control, but coupled with the warrior healing signet/high toughness/naturally high hp… you can barely put a dent in them before they melt you away (in seconds without condi removal)
i see high lvl condi wars and they completely decimate everyone. most their team follows them around like stink on poop cause they never die, so it turns into a ridiculous invincible zergfest and you can do nothing but just leave.
if you can melt people away in seconds, than you need to be able to die without a 4man focus
i hate to have to say this but condi warriors are ridiculous and need toned down
theyre running healing signet/high toughness which makes them near invincible and they can drop people in seconds with sword/bow bleed/fire burst.
every time i see one they have full 25 condi buff from sigil and because they never die and drop people so quickly they create steamroll zergs which makes games utterly lopsided from the start
no single class spec should be able to carry an entire team and have such a huge impact on the outcome of the game
if they are able to drop people like flies they need to be killable and atm the healing signet is giving way to much regen to a spec that can deal so much condi damage (and for so long)
i know warriors need something but this is just full cheese mode
I’ve heard this talked about on sotg and i think it would be a great way to give more depth to pvp with seemingly little effort. Personally I’d like to see on the scoreboard:
-total damage dealt
-damage via aoe
-damage via conditions
-pet damage
-damage against enemies occupying nodes
-total damage received
-damage negated (via block, dodge, invuln. etc)
-damage received while occupying node
-damage negated while occupying node
-Total Revives
-damage taken while reviving
-damage negated while reviving
-revives in contested nodes
-Total healing
-healing applied to allies
-healing applied to characters on nodes
-Total boons applied
-boons applied to allies
-boons applied to characters on contested nodes
-damage negated from boons (for allies+on nodes)
-total duration of boons applied
-Total Conditions applied
-conditions applied to enemies on nodes
-extra damage from conditions (vuln)
-damage/conditions negated from conditions (weakness)
-total duration of conditions applied
-Disables applied
-disables applied against enemies in node
-total duration of disables applied
-total duration of disables applied to enemies in node
-Total time occupying nodes
-Steps taken
-Stealth abilities used
-total stealth duration
-Total dodges
-successful evades
-Total abilities used
-total weapon skills used
-total utility skilled used
-total heal skills used
-total profession skills used
-Total kills
-stomps
-total kills in node
-total caused downs
-Total deaths
-total received downs
-total rallys
-total damage while downed
-total downed kills
Then just make it so you can sort the categories from highest to lowest
I think having a scoreboard that simply gives recognition to the contributions of tank/healers/support/aoe would encourage players to attempt a larger array of builds. As much as i think the current scoreboard is a poor and inaccurate indicator of personal performance, i still cant help but check it a few times throughout the game as its the only indicator we have to gauge our performance. If I and everyone knew how much healing i was dishing out instead of just seeing a low score because you cant tap anyone, then playing that spec would be much more rewarding especially in a game with no real rewards. And yes i am a hotjoin hag and i rarely tourney
I think more detailed stats would also be beneficial to the esport aspirations of gw2 and would open up a whole new forum for debate and comparisons. Kinda like how espn is always goin on about stats of players
And if there are those who are new and dont want people to see how bad they are they could have an option to not have their info revealed (just removed from scoreboard so people dont talk crap).
I think this would be great for pvp as long as it doesnt expose heavy class imbalance
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