Showing Posts For Tinybel.3847:
Since the latest updates i fail to see how Gw2 is so different from any other MMO.
Except for 3 things. Dodge mechanic which is kinda fun. No trinity which is debatable.
And finally WvWvW which is probably the best mainstream implemantion of a Realm Vs Realm system, which doesn’t mean much cause there just isn’t a good one atm.
Other than that it’s kinda a carbon copy of wow without raids.
Seeing how much they ruined the game they’d have to pay me a monthly sub to play it, so i guess the answer is no.
Sorry about the title. I don’t actually think it’s much of a treadmill, I just used it to get people in the topic :/
Do not give in to these ignorant fanbois. It IS a grind. Gear progression used to be horizontal, meaning you only acquired a new skin beyond the pitifully easy exotic gear to acquire. Now, according to your calculations AND even accounting for “alternative methods” being introduced in the future, it will take MONTHS of DAILY effort to get one set of ascended gear for ONE character and that ascended gear will have stats for ONE BUILD.
Anyone who says this is not a grind is being >willfully ignorant<.
/thread
This has to be sarcasm. I like how people put /thread like they have the last word and NOBODY is allowed to post after them.
By your definition, the game already had a vertical treadmill. Even having white, blue, green gear would be a treadmill because there is a stat increase and it isn’t just visual.
Who would want to play a game where all stats and weapons were exactly the same? PvE players definitely don’t. PvP, sure, which is why in PvP all gear and weapons are equivalent statistically, only differ visually.
Umm I’m a pve player and i would like only visually different gear in pve ?
GW2 did have a power curve from the beginning. If you check a few month back people were complaining about the Exotic gear too, rightfully so.
Matter of fact though exotics are fairly easy to obatin and obtainable in alot of ways. Imo in line with the play as you want part.
That being said you could say exotics still were against the manifesto, people just came to accept them.
Ascended pieces are different they’re not quick and easy to obtain nor attainable in alot of different ways. Throwing the play as you want completely out the window.
And if stats are not the end all of this game, why do ascended pieces have better stats ?
They could just have made them like legendaries, same stats harder to attain fully in line with the horizontal progression and at that point really completely optional.
Throw out the whole agony thing ,let people chose the difficulty setting of the fractals freely, give different skins on different fractal levels and were completely in line again.
They simply chose not to do that though.
Not to be a pain but where is all the Crafted Ascended, or WvW Ascended..
Play the way you want to play has gone right out the window…
It’s possible they will add these venues in the future. I was surprised to learn that ascended amulets could be bought with laurels and sold on the TP rather than being soulbound or account bound. Assuming a player doesn’t mind waiting, they could apparently skip the dailies and buy their gear with gold.
They might do that, fact is though they have not yet. The play as you like part is still out the window. They also have not added the Amulet to FOTM which would indicate not all gear will be available by all venues.
Fact is though only a small portion of the player base ever stepped foot into there
not to mention anything beyond.Right, because the content was gated gear-wise, and getting 40 (geared) people for a raid
was difficult. This didn’t only apply to Vanilla, it lasted all the way into cataclysm.You could say once you seen all fractals you’ve seen all the content. But that’s just cause Anet took the easiest way out with the increasing difficulty. Also i would say not that many people in GW2 step into fractals 20+.
The “easiest way out” also allows Anet to let its playerbase play the fractal content without being gated. This is a good thing.
Oh and anet decided difficulty is their contend progression in fractals so difficulty = content. You can chose not to take part in it….. you could chose not to raid in wow.
It’s not content progression, it’s difficulty progression. You’re not playing anything “new,” just playing a harder version of it. I do choose to not take part in it until I have a group who’s willing to sit down and learn the game.
Difference between WoW’s gear-gated content and Gw2’s gear-gated content is that GW2’s gate doesn’t start until well after you’ve seen all of the fractal content.
That it was hard to find 40 geared people was more of a problem of the Format getting 5 Raid ready people would have been not much harder than getting a fractal group.
And Wow not having any contend beyond raids was a player base misconception.
There was quite alot to do before 60 and at 60.
Alot of people just chose to ignore it and to zoom right to 60 and raid.
Probably the same people that in GW2 chose to zoom to 80 and then complain there is nothing to do, which in part i would assume netted us the ascended gear.
And difficulty progression is contend progression. Since mob behaviour changes and some things change up you have not seen everything the game has to offer if you never did the highest level of FOTM. What you have seen is all the story the fractal has to offer but uh what story is there anyways ?
I hate defending wow since i kinda dislike the game now but for me nothing arena net has done since 15th november is in line with their manifesto, and has mostly been cartered at exactly those wow players.
Loathe was a too strong word :P
(edited by Tinybel.3847)
What GW2 at the moment does not do is invalidate the Ascended pieces by a new tier, like wow did every few month. With anets latest track record this might still happen though for all i know.
The problem is that the false advertising is not resonating with players.
I’d like to point out that the game as advertised has not changed. The “no grind” line people like to refer to so often did not mean “no grind for the best in slot gear.”
That is an expectation that carried over from GW1.
What they actually said when you take the rest of the manifesto/design goals in context is that there’s no grind to see all of the game’s content. You are never punished by the game for having non-bis gear. This is an important and irrefutable fact.
This particular point is what made me interested in GW2 as my replacement MMO over WoW, LotRO and Age of Conan.
I have never played an MMO that punished you for having non-BiS gear. In WoW you can see all the content in greens. GW2 is not distinctive at all for the not penalizing you for not having BiS items. The only gating that occurs is in dungeons post level cap. And, we have that same gating in FotM. You are not going to waltz into FotM lvl 30 without showing your agony card at the door. The gating in GW2 is by gear just as in WoW.
You could not raid in greens, raids in WoW were the definition of PvE content. You absolutely could not see all content in greens. QED.
You can’t say “they both have post-level cap gating” when in GW2 I can see literally all content (difficulty != content) before the gate becomes a factor, where in WoW to even step foot in specific instances, you had to reach a specific level of gear.
Any experienced gamer would see the difference.
You really can’t read the manifesto plainly and come away with the distinctions you are making; the distinctions must first be made up. The language of the manifesto is clear to any experienced gamer.
I contend that your interpretation of the design manifesto is off-base, because in my opinion the game has kept the manifesto intact.
I’m not forced to grind anything to participate and be relevant; ergo any vertical progression is optional. I don’t care that I’m not stat-capped because the cap doesn’t matter.
I can’t spell this out any simpler for you.
Allright i guess 15 years+ doesn’t count as experienced.
I played Vanilla wow. You’re right you could not do say MC in green in any feasible way. Fact is though only a small portion of the player base ever stepped foot into there
not to mention anything beyond. You could do Blackrock Spire in greens though not necessarly easy but you can.
Now let’s assume MC is T1 so fractals level 10+ Blackrock and other 5 mans are Fractals 1-10 . I assume you can do the first fractal tier in blues(which would be wow greens), not sure how fun that is cause i never tried, but possible.
How about fractals 10+, fractals 20+, 30+ ? You could say once you seen all fractals you’ve seen all the content. But that’s just cause Anet took the easiest way out with the increasing difficulty. Also i would say not that many people in GW2 step into fractals 20+. I’m not even sure if the majority is at 10+.
As for landscape content my memory is a bit fuzzy there but i remember wow vanilla actually having quite a few zones and quests i would contend it’s not so much less than GW2. And mind you i’m just speaking of the very first iteration of Wow, things changed quite a bit after that.
Oh and anet decided difficulty is their contend progression in fractals so difficulty = content. You can chose not to take part in it….. you could chose not to raid in wow.
Oh and just as a side note just like Wow Guild wars 2 now forces you down a certain road to get the BIS gear. Which is the exact thing people came to loathe in those other games. Raid or die just got replaced by Fractals or die.
And now they changed it to Fractal and/or Daily or die.
I’m not sure how you fit that into the manifesto no matter how generous you are.
The problem is that the false advertising is not resonating with players.
I’d like to point out that the game as advertised has not changed. The “no grind” line people like to refer to so often did not mean “no grind for the best in slot gear.”
That is an expectation that carried over from GW1.
What they actually said when you take the rest of the manifesto/design goals in context is that there’s no grind to see all of the game’s content. You are never punished by the game for having non-bis gear. This is an important and irrefutable fact.
This particular point is what made me interested in GW2 as my replacement MMO over WoW, LotRO and Age of Conan.
This is not how i read it and i have never even touched GW1. Especially the quote about how an item that you spend hundreds of hours on should not be functionally better. Sorry can’t find the actualy quote now.
Even if you interpret the manifesto in that way it still isn’t true,
you need the agony resistance for high level fractals that’s an effective gate.
We can argue that you don’t need to do the fractals or that you don’t need best in slot still for those high level fractals.
But Wow isn’t so different there unless you really care for a server first. BIS gear helps but it was, while i played, in no way necessary to complete the latest tier.
All 5 man content(read dungeons in GW2) was doable in sub par gear and landscape content even in crappy gear. Did people refuse to take you in crappy gear ? Yup sure.
I’ve seen the same here since fractals too though, theres no inspect so you can lie with linking your pieces, but it’s the same thing.
Yeah you know it’s funny i don’t even mind gear treadmills that much, i played wow for 6 years and since november im playing Lotro again. Both have gear treadmills and i even like getting new shinies.
Thing is though those games never pretended to be without a gear treadmill i get what i signed up for.
Guild wars 2 on the other hand was advertised as play as you want and no gear treadmill. It’s a standard Anet set and they failed to keep it. They can mince words as they want alot of people, me included, expected a grind free game with easy to achieve max gear.
They threw that out of the window and that’s why i stopped playing plain and simple.
Had they advertised like we’re gonna be like everyone else just prettier that’d be fine
i never would have even started.
They set up a standard failed to meet it and they keep failing to meet it. Looking at daily achieves for 35 days just to get one ring, that’s not quick and fairly easy to get Max gear, that’s a grind.
They also said ascended gear would come to every part of the game, well i can’t craft it yet can i nor can i buy it for karma. Hell you can’t even get the backpack doing FOTM so they even screwed the people that actually enjoyed that.
No sorry i don’t stick to companies that continually don’t even try to meet their standards. Maybe the february update will impress me, i quite honestly doubt it though it’s probably time to write of gw2 as a lost cause.
Checked patch notes, checked ways to gain Ascended gear, saw ridicolous laurel prices, checked peoples opinions, checked if any promises were kept, found it not to be so. Saved myself a few gigabytes of downloads it seems. Will check again on February patch. Good luck Anet.
No actually a diverse way would be:
- Crafting leads to ring, backpack and amulets
- Karma leads to ring, backpack and amulets
- Dungeons leads to ring, backpack and amulets
- Fractals leads to ring, backpack and amulets
- Gold leads to ring, backpack and amulets
- WVWVW leads to ring, backpack and amulets
- Whatever else im forgetting leads to ring, backpack and amulets
That’s diverse.
Why should he or me or anyone ? The game was advertised as play the game as you want and get the gear as you want. Of course the game went away from that on November 15th, they just didn’t do anything to fix it with this patch either. There’s one viable way to get Rings and one Viable way to get amulets (Laurels for that).
Well i’ve been luriking around hoping this patch would fix the ascended Gear acquisition. It takes 10 pristine fractal relics to get an ascended Ring right ? Why does it then not take 10 laurels to get one either ? Doesn’t make any sense. I completely agree the prices are ridicolous. Not to say this is still not play as you want it’s play as the daily tells you. Oh on that note can you get the Amulets in FOTM ? If not it’s even less play as you want.
In our small 2 Man guild as of today not me or my co leader can change anything about the guild. No Message of the day, no upgrading and also no buying any guild armour.
Guild: Verwirrt mit Vodka
Server: Blackgate