Showing Posts For Tollz.4152:
I understand why the community was crying about the difficulty
The biggest issue for people like me was: I wanted to play the new content, the new story, the new maps. but i wanted to do that with the new possibilities of my class, testing out different builds while progressing. That actually lead to me ignoring most of the new content (events, dialogues with NPCs) and getting the story spoiled by some random NPCs while just searching for Hero Point challenges to finally enjoying the game. In addition, some grinding was required to get enough experience for the masteries i needed to get the Hero Points.
That was dull and boring and not difficult at all. Just time consuming.
Yes, some Hero Point challenges are difficult – but you just have to wait until more players arrived.Now i can finally explore the new world, the new NPCs, the Lore, look for details and take the time i need without having the feeling that my character is “incomplete” in some way… in other words, i can finally enjoy the game.
Well said this is really the nub of the issue and why anet probably made the change. So how about the elitist whingers actually give anet some credit for being in the best position to kitten an issue and make the correct call.
Hold on, so you’re position and “whining” about it being hard is the correct stance but our position is elitist and wrong and our “whining” is not allowed. The changed literally came from people like yourself crying about how hard it was to get it, which is fair it was hard… on purpose and you are allowed to be upset with it just like we are allowed to be upset that it changed. This is the most hypocritical statement I have seen on this thread.
Great thread OP.
Even though I’m stoked with the recent change to the HP requirement it’s so nice to actually get a well worded take on your experience as opposed to “casual whiners ruined the whole game!!!” or equivalent rant. I can sympathize a lot more with how some, certainly not all, players like you feel now.
Much respect.
Now it’s my understanding that all these HP’s will be needed for the new legendary gear, happy to be corrected, and if so does this not have relevance or bearing to an eventual and rewarding long time goal you can display for your efforts that shows the effort you put in? I mean most casuals, starting to hate that generalization but I digress, will probably just do what they can to unlock the spec and then just go back to what they enjoy while you will have partial access to some pretty awesome rewards.
For my part I don’t think game mechanics like the elite spec and their acquisition should be used as a symbol of status.
Would be interested to garner your thoughts.
I don’t think acquiring an elite spec should be a symbol of status either, but it should require work. Let me put something in perspective.
last night I logged onto my Mesmer alt that just hit 80 before xpac, I had 3 hero points, it took me an hour with the masteries I had unlocked and the knock down to 250HP for me to fully unlock Chronomancer…. wow I felt nothing, it was the same as sitting there crafting to 80 or clicking tomes, there was nothing.
I even popped on my commander tag and helped 2 dozen people also finish their specs. It was silly, the nerf was too hard and I now really can appreciate how much more rewarding the original 400 was.
I will say that it put me back a bit on how I first felt, I now do have a much larger feeling that it was really enjoyable the first time, it definitely feels cheap and silly now, sorry Anet this change was a little to much.
Anyone that originally got 400, well done, no one else will get that feeling Anet have cheapened this soo much.
In regards to the Legendaries requiring HP I had not heard anything, that would be nice I’d be okay with that.
I think everyone has also taken my original post too literally as well, I stated that a title or a skin or something should be given to those who got 400hp when needed, what I meant by this is that I just reckon that Anet has listened to the masses and not really recognised that people did their content, that we liked it, that we spent a lot of time doing it and they don’t care. Their two statements were basically a kick to the crotch pretty much said “you go you” and “you’re a champ” now we’re gonna make it easier HAH!
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I’m not saying your irritation isn’t legitimate, but you don’t need a title to brag. You did it before most people and not only is that something no one can take away from you, but it’s something you can brag about.
Let me pose an analogous scenario to you that happens in raiding games all the time: Top guilds compete to see who can kill the bosses first. Pretty soon, the top guilds get the bosses killed and get them on farm status (meaning they can kill the bosses without fail each weekly reset).
Fast-forward to a few months later. The top guilds have been farming the bosses for a long time and a few 2nd tier guilds are getting some kills, but most raiding guilds are struggling a lot with progressing. They are getting killed over and over by tight requirements and unforgiving mechanics. So to ensure that the bulk of the raiding population (the lower tier guilds) don’t give up on the game, they nerf some of the harder bosses. Inevitably some of the people in top guilds complain about this, but there is no special title for it.
The people in the top guilds already got their reward, in the form of 1) getting all the rewards before everybody else and 2) being able to brag about their accomplishments. In fact, they can now say “I killed X boss pre-nerf.”
This is usually how it works in MMOs, that for the first ones there, the thing that separates them from the people who came later is the feeling of knowing that they got to the finish line first. Like a race.
If you got this stuff before the nerfs, you already placed first. You won the race. Anet could give you a badge to say that you won the race, but I have to ask: Are you sure the medal is what you did it for, or was it for the feeling of beating the competition?
I get what you’re saying and I agree for the most part. In regards to you analogy to say WoW, Blizzard actually make certain achievements and titles unavailable after they nerf them to acknowledge those who were able to do it before the nerfs. I’m just saying Anet are listening to and rewarding a lot of crying about the amount of effort.
I did enjoy the time I put in and it was my reward, but now the next bloke gets to come along, put in half the time and get the same reward….. I hope you can see how that is rough.
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I understand why the community was crying about the difficulty
The biggest issue for people like me was: I wanted to play the new content, the new story, the new maps. but i wanted to do that with the new possibilities of my class, testing out different builds while progressing. That actually lead to me ignoring most of the new content (events, dialogues with NPCs) and getting the story spoiled by some random NPCs while just searching for Hero Point challenges to finally enjoying the game. In addition, some grinding was required to get enough experience for the masteries i needed to get the Hero Points.
That was dull and boring and not difficult at all. Just time consuming.
Yes, some Hero Point challenges are difficult – but you just have to wait until more players arrived.Now i can finally explore the new world, the new NPCs, the Lore, look for details and take the time i need without having the feeling that my character is “incomplete” in some way… in other words, i can finally enjoy the game.
I get where you are coming from, don’t get me wrong, I would have loved to my spec sooner, but in saying that I had a lot of time between hero challenges to use and understand each individual skill or trait I unlocked which was a much better experience than just unlocking things like crazy as you do in the base game.
Being incomplete was part of the charm, it was the sense of going through the jungle and learning to “specialise” in and “elite” tree, by the time I finished the jungle my character had evolved.
No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?
I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.
It does not take that long.
While you say game shouldn’t adjust to people you describe, it also shouldn’t adjust to people who have no time to play yet want to have everything in the game.
No, I would say grinding out 400HP would take a fairly long time, especially if you have multiple alts, and especially if you missed most of the Zerg-Train on opening weekend.
On Saturday, you could ride along with the mob, jump into any HP, and chances are that there would already be people there fighting the champ, or ready to start. By Sunday evening, that train had already left the first two zones. The problem is fairly binary – you either have the people to grind the masteries and do the champs with you, and it’s largely a breeze, or you don’t, in which case you have nothing.
This morning I logged in to play a few HPs and I probably spent 10-15 minutes just gathering a few guys to do the champ. No worries – but 40 times of herding cats, be it guildies or pugs? That’s not fun, that’s just drudgery.
‘It does not take that long’ is your judgement, based on your commitments and your availability – it’s not a statement of truth.
These are all straw-man arguments. Nobody said the game should adjust to one individual or group. What I personally said was that the 400 points was a hard left, an obvious grind, and ran counter to nine years of Guild Wars 1 & 2, and Arena Net’s manifesto. It also was very much NOT what was presented before or after pre-purchase. A lot of people said the same thing.
I play 10-15 hours a week, not as much as some, but certainly a dedicated amount and about as much as anyone spends on a hobby, on average. I most certainly don’t have ‘no time to play’. I most certainly never asked for, nor do I, ‘want everything.’
I don’t think laraley meant it in this way, I understand your stance and I largely agree, if the system was set out as a lower cap from the beginning things might have been in a better place and also people that cannot get groups together may have a harder time, that said you can solo these champion mobs it just takes some effort.
I personally have a commander tag and was able to gather people en masse which I know is different but I helped as many as I could in the process of getting my own because I could rally people and time and time again I also saw the community say “hey guys lets group up on me and grab this point” or “im here at this really hard point anyone wanna jump in my party and get it?” even in the barren maps sunday evening when I was returning with the masteries to get the points I couldn’t and Anet just announced they are actually fixing an issue that caused the players to be scattered across different instances so that should also be addressed soon.
The problem we now have is that a portion of the player base put a lot more effort into doing stuff and then that time was essentially taken away because it was felt that the cap was too high.
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I understand but I don’t have time to play all day everyday, I work monday to friday 9am-5pm
Nope.
In reality…
There is no recognition for putting in the hard work
…You work more than just monday to friday 9am-5pm. And that’s because you made the mistake of working in a game as opposed to playing a game. The fact you feel you are not recognised enough for the effort you did is actually very much deserved – you didn’t do anything that deserves recognition, you basically wasted time you could have spent having fun.
This is one of the main reasons why so many MMORPGs are such bad games. The fact some people are willing to waste their time with content not because they are having fun, but because they have an illusion that it will give them some kind of important reward even while they consider doing it “work”, is the reason why grind is so widespread now. Sorry to say, but nothing you grind for is going to give you prestige or the admiration of others. Nothing you grind for is going to actually have a positive impact in your life. The best you can get is not realizing how much time you have wasted doing something you didn’t even enjoy while you could have been having fun instead.
This is sad, I enjoy my time and you are stating that I am wasting my time on something I like doing. It’s not work, it is work to you because you choose to make it feel like work, you appear to want things handed to you in a system that is about unlocking aspects of a character through progression.
For you to come in and claim that my time is wasted because I enjoy something is extremely rude. I was having fun there is no “instead”
I do not want prestige or admiration from anyone for a game that is ridiculous, I want to enjoy myself in said game, which I was, which I am still. I have just been told that everyone else gets to do it easier and all that time I spent was actually taken from me in a sense.
But sure think of it as a job, keeping with your “work” analogy, if hired you and I said to you that you had to come to work and work 35 hours a week and got 40k a year and you accepted. Then then someone with your exact same skillset and the same age was hired to do the same job for the same pay but only had to work 20 hours a week. Would you still feel that this was fair? Would you think that your time was worth as much? Would you not want reimbursement? A raise? Extra holidays? Something? You would and you know it.
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It just seems like getting upset about the changes because a person has gotten their spec is very, very petty.
When all a person has is superiority in a video game they react poorly when that’s taken away from them.
I understand you do not agree with myself or others in my position but it is not about superiority. It is not “I completed it super fast” or “I got there why can’t you” it is that Anet set out a goal in their game that indeed did take a lot of time and a fair bit of effort. When that time and effort is then made null by simply making it easier or faster than mine and anyone else’s time was spent on something that others are now getting for less. I don’t want to feel superior I am actually just upset, the same way that yourself or anyone else that is embracing this change was upset that it took that long in the first place.
Please be constructive and actually contribute to the topic not just getting on your high horse to call people out.
What 2 large walls? They lowered the hero point requirement to fully spec your elite line. That’s it. Masteries are the same you still need the unlocks to gather all the hps. Whats this other wall?
Itzel poison mastery 4 was required for chapter 14 of the personal story and to get the 400 hero points, it was something like 5-6 million exp total. So yes two walls.
Anet says that there is possibility for new elite specs in the future, so you’re ahead of the game. Before the expansion came out, there were 200+ hero points that were unusable from map completion, did you complain about those?
Before the “Hero point” change those extra points where skill points that I could use for many things, the change to Hero points came after I had gotten them all and used them, I was not any worse of because it was a good change they gave me back the points even though I had used them as consumables.
In this instance I am given back 200 points I don’t need and cannot use and most likely wouldn’t have bothered to get in the first place and now for what? An elite specialisation when….. between now and never? This is shortsighted, did you play before hero points were introduced? It is completely different. I didn’t get all the base tyria points on alts because I had no use for them after they changed from skill points.
Thanks for your understanding, I’m not saying I’m not in some way elitist, I just feel like anet should recognise that there are people who enjoyed the game as they intended it and show that in some way, instead of simply caving and tossing it aside with a blog post saying “you go you”.
no problem. I definitely understand the need to feel rewarded for effort, as long as that reward doesn’t impede others in any significant way, and a title is definitely one of the best routes to go to reward players who got the 400 hero points before the change.
I would never suggest something game changing or impactful, just a cosmetic that shows you achieved something. A die colour a silly mordrem helm, a title, a minipet. Just an acknowledgement.
The change was needed. desperately so. ANet wronged the playerbase by putting such ridiculous requirements for all characters to get their elite specialisation fully unlocked. Having the need to be superior to other people, as you yourself have outlined in your post, does make you an elitist.
all that said, a title would be a great idea, and this is coming from someone who won’t ever get all the hero points. “Mordrem basher” or something along those lines. There should be recognition for those who do complete all the hero points for now, and have the ability to obtain them removed like several other titels from previous living world segments.
I see nothing wrong with this suggestion.
Thanks for your understanding, I’m not saying I’m not in some way elitist, I just feel like anet should recognise that there are people who enjoyed the game as they intended it and show that in some way, instead of simply caving and tossing it aside with a blog post saying “you go you”.
I understand but I don’t have time to play all day everyday, I work monday to friday 9am-5pm I played the two days on the weekend at launch and a couple hours of a night with my mates. Thinking I am a no life’er is just rude and an excuse.
We got ours last night #FromtheAbyss #TarnishedCoast
Loving the decorations although charr copter is missing a texture on the side.
I understand why the community was crying about the difficulty, to be honest none of it seemed hard, I got Itzel poison mastery when I needed it no problem, I then just last night got my 400 hero points for My dardevil and my guild got our guild hall and spent a bunch of money starting it up.
Here’s the thing, I spent a lot of time on both the Mastery and the Hero points. Once I had completed them both it actually meant something, I even had people asking me “oh how did you get that” and “oh why can you stand in the poison” “how are you already on the final mission” it was fun I felt like I achieved something that was actually difficult not just handed to me from playing the game like GW2 original which was all just a pushover.
Now anet has both removed the requirement for iztel poison mastery and stated “if you already did it give yourself a pat on the back” and I though yeah all right I suppose. Now I have gotten my 400 hero points and the next day “we are nerfing the requirement to 250” and a statement saying “for those already with 400 points you’ll just have spare for later”.
It’s feeling really unrewarding now to do content, two large walls that I and many other players scaled are now being broken down to suit the cries of those who don’t want tp put in the effort. I understand that Anet must cater for the masses but people like myself are feeling pretty sour.
There is no recognition for putting in the hard work, please anet where is our Title for achieving the original task set before us, were is the unique skin or just something to say “hey we made strong content that took time to do and you did it before we nerfed it down, let people know”
I know I’m going to get a million “elitist” remarks now.
You’ve listened to the cries of those who didn’t want to do your content, now please listen to the people you’ve wronged in the process.
Cheers guys I love the expansion, I’m just not looking forward to content getting nerfed everytime I complete it.
@none.9681
Heh, yeah suppose I used a pretty silly example but the idea is still the same.
@John.8507
Yeah, I thought about this too, but I figured it would be too much effort for such a fine detail, I don’t mind the partially successful/ failed to purchase mechanic and it seems like it wouldn’t be too much hassle for multiple different items, they already have it for stacks of the same item
My mates and I were discussing the trading post and how annoying it is sometimes to buy many things on the trading post.
What I mean by “many things” is, say I want to buy an entire set of assassin’s gear but I don’t know if I have enough gold perhaps. There is no “checkout” feature on the trading post for me to put them all in a basket to see what it would cost.
Now I know I can just do the math and if I don’t have enough gold I probably shouldn’t spend it, but maybe I want to see what all the mats for an item I would like to make would cost all at once, the feature would be useful here as well.
At the end of the day I realise we can all just add it up ourselves and I know the issues anet could face with making the feature considering you would be buying from multiple people and if you don’t buy fast enough the TP will sometimes fail to buy because of supply and price but hey it just came up in a conversation and I thought to myself that’s not a terrible idea.
Let me know what the rest of you think, could it work? Would it be a feature you’d enjoy or would it just make the TP more confusing for you? Have you got a better idea to buy multiple different items?
I’d love to hear a Dev’s perspective on the subject.
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CANTHA ALL THE WAY. seriously though chill with the political stuff i’m sure its more offensive to exclude cultures than to include them plus the game isn’t itself without cantha.