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18.7k Kill Shot - At what cost?

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Tonight in WvW I was standing in front of a Tower and an enemy Warrior walks across the bridge and BOOOOOM one shot! Looking at the combat log it appears that I was hit by an 18.7k Kill Shot. Granted the engie alt I was on was only level 21.

So I am just curious, what does it take for a Warrior to be able to do that? Thanks!

A spontaneous class change to a thief would do that.

[Edit]
And in case this isn’t actually a troll post, your combat log would have told you what you were hit with.

I swear I saw Signet of Rage granting adrenaline passive...

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Yesterday or the day before, I swear I saw the passive bonus for Signet of Rage finally granting adrenaline as I was standing still… today, not working again.

What’s the deal?

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

I think we’re just going around in circles at this point folks.

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

You do gain notoriety, infamy, bragging rights.

When you play a lot of W3, you play with the same people on your team. You get to know one another, and the cream rises to the top.

When you play against a rival server (with a similar rank), you get to know the guilds on that server. Individual names don’t mean anything – guilds do.

I think a lot of you guys are just getting burnt out, and without a constant incentive to play your mind is telling you it’s time to take a break. That might be a new feeling for you, but maybe you should abide by it and just take a break for a while.

I have no idea how or why you would fully max your character out so early in the game. Obviously just a playstyle difference, but I can imagine if I was in your shoes I would be a little burnt out too.

Maybe go play a subscription game and chase a carrot for a while. I predict you’ll be back.

Please stop trying to rationalize what must be wrong with us that we’re not like you. We’re different people with different personalities. I don’t call you a bland human being, or OCD for liking the same thing over and over again. We get the point, you don’t want any potentially unbalancing additions.

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Sky, I’m not even going to dignify those statements with a response.

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Stopped reading at “No Real Reason to WvW”… Some of he most popular games in the world were about having fun with no incentive in doing good or bad. I remember when people played games to have fun. Now everyone needs little star stickers and m&ms for completing every task like their mommy use to give them when they were a kid. In a few years time it will go from M&Ms and star stickers to needing the game company to pay you a salary to play.

So many of you are missing the point. Yes, there is fun in WvW currently, without what I’ve brought up. The point is that it’s only fun for short segments. Battlegrounds are fun, for a little while. Eventually though, I, like many others, tire of them and their meaninglessness.

Achievements and cosmetic progress is completely lost on me. I really couldn’t care less. But I get it. Many of you are happy the way things are. I question how long you’ll truly stay interested the way things are now, but that’s great for you!

All I’m offering is an analysis of what I KNOW to be fun for me and many others like me, that is a decade in the making. I think there’s room for everyone to enjoy this game. My enjoyment doesn’t necessarily have to come at the cost of yours.

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Jetersmiles, it’s pretty clear you didn’t actually read any of the content in this thread before spewing your bile at us.

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

But if the Cubs win the World Series in 2013 they don’t get the ability to now use heavier bats than the competition.

Sports have rules that are there to provide the most level playing field possible, so that the game becomes human vs. human, not equipment vs. equipment.

Ask Nascar, they have some experience with the difficulty of regulating performance machines.

Brad Pitt called, he wants you to look to look at a script.

No, they wouldn’t get to use heavier bats, but one of the “weapons” in major league baseball is money, and that is absolutely affected by winning. I’m straining my knowledge of baseball at this point, but compare the Yankees expenditure to the Cubs…

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

But without it, there’s no sense of accomplishment.

Horsecrap. I have no idea exactly when it was that this hilarious delusion began that the only way to experience a “sense of accomplishment” in a game was to watch your avatars numbers go up, but it’s like everyone’s IQ dropped 50 points overnight.

Somehow we have a world FULL of games and sports and competitive activities in which your sense of accomplishment and reward comes through winning or excelling, and yet we have this subsect of MMO players who continue to insist that the only meaningful form of reward is numbers. Numbers go up, or GTFO, they insist.

And both of you old school gamers can stop waxing poetic about a better time. I’ve been gaming since 1982. DAoC was an amazing game, but it was also an unbalanced nightmare of cheesing and exploits.

You’re boiling down what I said into “watch your avatar’s numbers go up”. I wouldn’t play that game. If you over-simplify, sure it’ll sound dumb. I can simplify online gaming down to twiddling bits in a computer for hours at a time, and that sounds even more dumb!

We both know that what makes something fun cannot be easily boiled down to one thing. Yes, numbers went up in DAoC. But with that you also got other permanent abilities. You could feel yourself getting stronger. You could change the way you play the game by adding a new ability into your repertoire. This and many other things all contributed to a feeling of character progression. It gave a permanence and a reason to keep going out over and over again.

The problem with your analogy of other sports and competitions is that when you win, it IS permanent, and there is a very real, tangible sense of accomplishment. If the Cubs win the World Series in 2013, they will forever have won the World Series in 2013. There are dozens of ways that that sense of accomplishment could be diminished, say if the World Series were held weekly… And that’s the problem with winning being the reward in MMO’s. Because winning as a sense of accomplishment has been diminished. That’s precisely why something else, character progression for example, is needed to fill in the gap.

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

<snip>You are a dying breed my friend and it is better to just let it go then try fight an uphill battle against the mass of casuals.<snip>

Sadly, I think you may be right. It’s something I’ve thought about before, that the type of game that I want just won’t exist ever again. But I can’t stop trying to find it. Warhammer, and Mythic’s latest F2P Warhammer lite are evidence that even Mythic themselves doesn’t want to, or can’t figure out how to replicate it.

There’s a philosophical aspect to this. People instinctively don’t like the idea of adding more burden to becoming on level ground. I’m the same way. But without it, there’s no sense of accomplishment. It’s like people who play story games on easy setting, and then complain that it was only a 6 hour game and feel like they wasted their time and money. They’re hurting their own enjoyment.

Also, apparently I angered the moderation God with my “To ANet:” prefix on this thread and received a friendly little infraction…

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

I can’t agree as a long time DAOC player. Jade Quarry has a large Daoc population and we have been growing the community and the cooperation that we did not see as much of in Daoc. Why? Cause in Daoc the more you rvr’d the more isolated you became into little cliches. What started as a great community and realm pride became diluted into a chase for the most spam, fast rr, and just general kill farming.

I’m glad to hear there is a community forming. That being said, let’s be fair here, you’re offering evidence of a GW2 community forming that actually IS a DAoC community, and became a GW2 community before the game had even released.

[Edit]
Also, as far as cliques forming, sure. That was part of the community. Over the years I played DAoC, I ran in several different “gank group” cliques. That was some of the best time’s I’ve had in video gaming.

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Too Hard to Kill People
This one is the most aggravating problems I’ve encountered so far. Due to the removal of healers, classes have been given excessive survival abilities. I understand why it was done and what was trying to be accomplished, but right now fights are way too long and drawn out. Escaping with less than 5% HP happens far too often. I don’t just say that from the killing side, but from the escaping side. My warrior has escaped far too many situations where I really should have been dead. I think there needs to be some balancing work done here.

Two features DAoC had that I think would help here are 1) slowed by low health, and 2) resurrection sickness. The slow as you get lower and lower health would help the situation where people escape at low health when they really should have been dead. Resurrection sickness would help solve the problem, that as I perceive it, larger numbers will almost always win, due to more people to resurrect the dead back to full effectiveness. A superior skilled force should be able to take down a larger but less skilled force. Right now I don’t see that as really possible.

Finally, water fights are simply broken. I’m not sure what the plan was here, but there doesn’t seem to be a way to finish someone off in the water, without continuing to damage them through downed state. Trying to truly kill someone in the water results in a solid minute of chasing after a downed body that bobs to and from the surface.

Conclusion
There are other minor issues that I’ll only mention, such as there being such a thing as too much misdirection (think clones, vanishing). Keep defense being too skewed in favor of defenders. Queues (not such a minor issue, but a known quantity). Fair-weather free transfers to winning realms.

I want to make it clear that the reason I invested so much time in this analysis is not because I’m some kid with too much time on my hands. I’m an adult, I work full-time (as a senior software engineer, hire me ANet), and I’ve had many iterations of new MMO’s coming out and disappointing me to reflect on what it was about DAoC that I’m trying to find again. I think there is great potential in this game to find what I’m looking for. It’s the best attempt yet, but still not there.

Thanks for reading,

Phlow – Pellinor’s Descendants – Sanctum of Rall

[TLDR]

  • Former DAoC player continually disappointed by MMO’s
  • No real reason to WvW
  • No Community Building
  • Too hard to kill people.
  • GW2 has potential

Analysis of GW2 WvW compared to DAoC RvR. [Long]

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

[TLDR at bottom of Part 2]

I’ll start by saying that ever since I stopped playing DAoC many years ago, I am constantly on the lookout for the next game that can bring me the same level of enjoyment that I had in RvR. I compare every new game against DAoC, and thus far I have been disappointed by every MMO. It seems that no one really understands what made it so good. I suspect there are a lot of former DAoC players that feel the same way.

So without further ado:

No Real Reason to WvW
Right now, the reasons to WvW in GW2 are all focused around acquiring gear. If you’re like me, wearing all exotics, there isn’t much to gain. Karma, Tokens, Cash, none of it will really advance me in any meaningful way. There is always the quest for legendary weapons, but to be honest the bar is set so high that only the most obsessive people have their sights set on it. I wrote it off already as Not Gonna Happen. World bonuses are nice temporary rewards, but they’re too transparent and more of a product of the whole World’s performance, not my personal performance.

There is a serious lack of permanence to WvW. One of the main driving forces for going out to RVR in DAoC was that you could constantly gain Realm Points for yourself. The more realm points you had, the more realm abilities you could buy, by achieving higher realm ranks. These abilities were passive bonuses and active skills that make you a stronger fighter. This was in addition to your quest for the best gear.

Lack of Community Building
The lack of community building in recent MMO’s has really been unfortunate. It’s a difficult problem, which is likely why every MMO seems to fail so hard at it. Communities form organically, they can’t be forced. All you can do is provide the opportunities for those communities to form organically. Maybe DAoC had such a great community because the player base was smaller and that type of thing isn’t possible anymore. But here are some of the things I can say for sure had a positive impact on building its community.

In DAoC, enemy players are masked as Invader/Defender like this game, but unlike this game, when I clicked on a player it registered their name in my combat log. When I damage them, I see their name in my log. When a player death occurred in the zone, everyone got a broadcast of who killed who, by name.

In addition to Invader/Defender, the player’s Realm Rank name appears as well, so you can get a sense of the type of fight you’re about to have. This gives people notoriety. I still remember my early days of RVR in DAoC and getting steamrolled by a group of high ranked Alb’s. I remember the combat log spam from that group killing tons of people. This got people talking to each other. “Where was that?” “Which way are they heading?” “kitten you guys got killed quick!” “Wow, nice job guys, you got em”. Notoriety and communication breeds leadership. Leaders and followers breed communities.

The current GW2 model doesn’t foster any of this. Servers are rotated, so you can’t develop a fear or respect for the enemy. Everything is anonymous. It’s a glorified Battleground. Anyone who participated in RvR in DAoC can tell you, Battlegrounds fun for a little while, but have no real long term appeal.

In addition, DAoC had VNBoards message boards where the players could interact, both out of game, and while gaming. You could trash talk someone for arsejamming a good fight, or give praise for a good fight. This let the enemy player get to know each other, and even when it was negative interaction, still built a stronger community.

Lastly there was the Camelot Herald where you could track Realm Point progress vs. others. Being able to actively track yourself vs. others kept it interesting. With weekly sub totals so if people had a good week, they could achieve some level of notoriety.

(Part 2 continues)

Thief and Warriors

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Unfortunately, I’ve run into Thieves in WvW that are NOT specced glass cannon, and their damage is still ridiculous. Cluster Bombs for 5k, vanishing and porting around. I really think they need to tone down the damage, and maybe up the HP, or something. It’s bad for a Warrior with 3200+ armor, it’s even worse for Elementalists and others with lower armor and health.

133k Thick Leather Sections...

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Supply vs. demand seems to be broken here.

I’d almost think about buying a couple gold worth to turn a profit later, but I have no idea if this is something even on the radar to be fixed.

orichalcum, ancient wood and gossamer plumetting

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

So the last ~2-3 days have seen ori, ancient wood and gossamer steadily dropping. Any idea why?

Temporary. There were a lot of Skill points fixed recent that allowed many people to complete Orr zones, which can yield a 40 stack of these high level materials. That alone can result in a temporary increase in supply.

How to deal with Thief?

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

Or you could just roll Greatsword and 1 shot them like every warrior does?

Come on, don’t troll. Greatsword stands even less of a chance. You’d know that if you actually played a Warrior vs. Thief.

Chances are you are a Thief. If you’re dying to Greatsword Warriors, I suspect you should be in the Thief forum asking them what you’re doing wrong.

How to deal with Thief?

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Posted by: Von.2790

Von.2790

I am wearing almost entirely exotic 80’s Knights gear, dual axe + axe/warhorn, shout heal build.

I have 25k health and over 3200 armor. I know how to play, and in group situations I’m pretty durable.

However, I have been running into Thief players recent that have been absolutely dismantling me. I’m getting hit with Cluster Bomb for upwards of 5k. 1500+1700 by Dancing Daggers, 5k Backstabs.

I’m telling you, there is no other class that I have run into that can do those kinds of numbers. When you look at my combat log, it’s very clearly an outlier, and really just looks bugged/broken.

I’m ending fights dead and they’re often near full health.

So, what’s going on? What can I do?

I should add, it’s extremely difficult to actually do damage to these slippery fools, which seems completely ridiculous to me that they do that much damage while also being able to avoid so much.

(edited by Von.2790)