Guild Wars 2

Pifil.5193:

Deihnyx.6318:

At least you could give us an official answer here!!!

I suspect that we will have to go to the prelude thread to get any answers, I think they’ve decided that this thread is ignorable as Colin Johanson has already posted several times in the “official” thread but no one has posted here.

I suspect that any posts there will be rerouted back here or deleted though.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/January-2013-Flame-and-Frost-prelude-Merged-Discussion/page/1

I only hope that the storm grows once this patch hits and people realise that guesting is going to split up their international groups permanently.

Well, I wish I could say that I had faith they wouldn’t intentionally ignore us, but I used to have faith that they wouldn’t intentionally mislead us, and that just ended up with me looking like a fool, didn’t it. :P

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

If performance between players in NA and in EU playing on each others servers is so bad and so erratic as to make guesting untenable why even let them roll on other regions servers in the first place.

That was my first reaction exactly..

Let us decide what we find acceptable. If we don’t find it acceptable, we’ll stay at our home region.

I doubt they even believe that performance is an issue themselves. It’s just PR spin to make it seem like this decision was made for the benefit of us poor, technically unsavvy players who may become flustered as our latency climbs above 200ms.

It’s all just a joke, but unfortunately it’s the kind of joke that lacks a punchline and makes everyone scuff their feet into the ground and look away awkwardly until someone finally, finally breaks the horrible silence.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

If performance between players in NA and in EU playing on each others servers is so bad and so erratic as to make guesting untenable why even let them roll on other regions servers in the first place.

I agree it does come across as arrogance in the extreme. Perhaps they are so confident that losing some more customers won’t matter because the game is so awesome

Yeah. I don’t care about performance or laggy connections as long as I get to play with my friends. I played another MMO on US servers for three years (with reasonable performance, I might add) and put up with any service glitches. For a company that claims to care so much about communities, I’m surprised at the lack of understanding of how friendships work.

Alright, so:

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=31615&storypage=1

Colin Johanson goes on to say that:

The overarching response has been extremely positive.

and, in response to our disappointment:

We definitely knew that was coming and we knew that is something that people really want to do.

Wow. Just wow. I was disappointed before, but now I’m angry. Why are we even posting here? Are we really just a complaining minority? Where is this extremely positive response, because I’m just not seeing it. On top of that, Colin admits that they knew that EU/US guesting is something we expected and wanted. The implication? They deliberately chose not to tell us it wasn’t going to happen.

I don’t know what to say anymore. ArenaNet isn’t talking to us, they’re talking to ZAM about how awesome they are instead, while simultaneously saying they are trying to get better at communication. What happened between prelaunch and launch that caused all this arrogance? I’m at a complete loss here.

Medarr.7193:

And how much data centers have you seen on the inside? Or how many tier 3 peers have you worked with? Do you even know what you’re on about?
If you think that making a global network that syncs data between data centers is easy then please give me your contact details so I can hire you. I could use good network architects.

And as an example google rolls out its own fibre optics network to sync data between their data centers this should tell you that its not as straight foward as it appears. Theres a lot more going on in the background then you think.

Friend, your competence is not at question here, nor is mine of any relevance.

The point is that you’re pointing out flaws and problems for a solution that is far from optimal, and making it sound like the problem is unfixable. The truth is, it’s not. It can be fixed with technology that GW2 already has, without bothering with trying to synchronize between datacenters. There are many creative solutions out there, but for some reason you choose to focus on the one solution that, while possible, is the most difficult of all in an attempt to actively campaign against EU/US guesting. Your stance can’t possibly be of any gain or benefit to you, so why do you pursue it?

I haven’t run across this yet, but it definitely screams abuse to me. Though I’m admittedly touchy about annoying sound effects – in my opinion, costume brawl was a terrible, terrible addition to the game simply because of how loud and annoying it is.

Amulrei.4973:

Medarr.7193:

For those of you whining about this… do you have any idea how much it costs to keep servers synced between continents? No you dont its readily apperant from your posting. You also dont seem to realise its not simply a matter of sending the data from one data center to the other, not do you seem to realise the issues with global routing, peering of tier 3 networks, BGP and several other issues that crop up when you try to do this globally. Ya all sound like spoiled kids. wha wha I could do this in GW1.. well GW1 isnt GW2 you assume they work the same network wise but they dont.

So… AN completely changed their story on how guesting would work AFTER taking our money (while leaving the original statements still up on their FAQ and website for extra facepalm points) but yet we are the “spoiled kids” for not lapping it up?

I don’t know if I should mock or pity you.

Don’t take the bait, it’s not worth it. Not only does he exaggerate the difficulty involved (though there is a certain difficulty involved, I will not deny that), he presents that solution as if it’s the only one available. There have been many others, some better, some worse, presented in this thread, and there are yet many others that remain unexplored. ArenaNet are good at what they do, they can come up with ways around this. It’s just a matter of whether they choose to or not.

Amulrei.4973:

Warder.3491:

As for literal false advertising, I’m not sure I’d go that far.

“In time, we’ll also introduce free “guesting,” which will allow players to visit other worlds as guests as long as they have friends on those worlds. This feature will be free, but guest players will not be able to enter World vs. World, and the Power of the Mists bonuses from their home world will continue to apply to their characters.”

Straight from https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-world-of-choice-the-regions-of-guild-wars-2 . Not even the slightest mention of a a European/US caveat or exception. Same on the offical FAQ. It says I can play with my friends on any other world outside of WvW. Except apparently now I can’t. If that isn’t bare faced false advertising, I don’t know what is.

Yeah, I know, but I’d rather we focus on what ArenaNet can do to solve this than have a debate of whether or not what they’re doing is illegal, because I don’t think that’s likely to go in a good direction.

That’s why I said that even if they didn’t explicitely promise us this – which they might have at some point, mind you – they definitely constantly implied it, and did nothing to discourage or refute those expectations even though they were well aware of them.

Amulrei.4973:

Well said. It’s amazing people are actually defending literal false advertising.

What I find amazing is that some people actively argue against those of us who have a problem with this implementation, when there’s absolutely no gain to be had for them. They’re arguing for the sake of arguing in an issue that obviously has a great negative impact for at least some of us, which is behavior I find appalling.

As for literal false advertising, I’m not sure I’d go that far. However, what I will say is that ArenaNet did this:

1) At the very least, very strongly implied that EU and US accounts would be able to guest with each other.

2) Did absolutely nothing to discourage that way of thinking for the months that we’ve been live and in beta. If this was the plan all along, which I strongly doubt, they could’ve said something before the game was released.

I’m not sure which I find worse, really. This isn’t what I would’ve expected from ArenaNet at all.

Ethics.4519:

Warder.3491:

Ethics.4519:

This is ridiculous. All you people sitting here whining and complaining about something great that Anet did for us. Half the people seem to not even have read the whole thing based on the ridiculous questions they are asking.

Thank you Anet for implementing it. It’s a shame we can’t NA/EU cross but it is what it is. I still appreciate the effort and the diligence to get this done.

Ridiculous? That I’m unhappy that it makes my situation worse? I have a friend in Australia who I will never be able to play with now, starting Jan 28, after ArenaNet implements this. And you suggest I should be grateful?

Know your facts before you start complaining. There will still be overflows for dungeons. How do you play with your Australian friend now? Do you switch servers every 7 days? Probably not. Do you join dungeons and go to overflows, probably. You’ll be able to do the same thing. So relax.

No. That doesn’t work. EU accounts can’t play with US accounts in overflow right now, and they won’t be able to afterwards either. When I play with my Australian friend right now, it requires a server transfer. Obviously the 7 day timer on transfers makes that a complete hassle, hence why we were eagerly anticipating guesting. Instead, guesting (and the subsequent removal of free transfers) effectively removed our ability to play with each other.

So yes, I do know the facts.

Loosifah.4739:

What you don’t understand is the revenue required for what you’re wanting them to do. In order for the datacenters to communicate on the level it would take to allow players to cross between the two it would require setting up a whole new infrastructure, buying a lot of really expensive equipment, setting up the network to allow it, investing in SAN’s that can run at high speeds, potentially using VPN’s, etc.

I work at a company that does a lot of hosting and we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every time we have to update something.

No. What I want to do is not what you think I want to do.

I don’t care if I can’t guest on a server in another region. I don’t care if they don’t set up International servers, or any of the other suggestions in this thread. I have no emotional attachment to those ideas. The only thing I care about is being able to play with all of my friends – however they resolve it is not really my concern, only that they do.

My own suggestion was that they give us the ability to have one Home World in each region, with free transfers between them on a timer. You know, technology that already exists and is utilized in Guild Wars 2 today and would have none of the problems you brought up, and cost nothing extra for ArenaNet. They’d potentially lose some potential profits from server transfers, but I think it’s more likely that the revenue they’d obtain from keeping their players content would make up for it.

Oh well. I’m going to bed, cause, you know. Time zones. EU. US. Yeah.

CaptainFabulous.8410:

No, you seem to misunderstand. You cannot play with people from EU servers if you’re on an NA server, and vice versa, unless your idea of “playing” is to chat and hang out in the same party. So that restriction already exists, due to the fact you’re on separate datacenters. The datacenters cannot communicate in a way that permits playing together. This isn’t a new restriction, it’s the way it’s always been.

And let’s say they create a server on each datacenter that’s specifically designed to allow people to transfer for guesting. What happens when the free server is full and you can’t transfer? What happens when you’re finished playing with your EU friends and want to transfer back to your home NA server but it’s full too? What then?

That we can’t actually play cross-region is accurate, obviously – that’s the whole point! But where you’re claiming it’s a technical impossibility (although you at first said the servers were completely isolated from each other, when that’s clearly not the case), I’m saying that it’s not, it’s just a more difficult solution that ArenaNet seems unwilling to commit to, despite their proclaimed intentions that playing with our friends is of great importance to them.

What your second part of the post is getting at, or why you’re asking me, I’m not sure. It has very little to do with anything I’ve said, or my suggestion thread. Again, I’m not bothered by specifics. If some solutions brought up in this thread or elsewhere aren’t practical, I don’t care. Something must work. However, you seem insistant that there is no solution that will work, and you seem to actively dislike the very thought of this issue being resolved. Why is that? Why not try to come up with solutions instead?

Bliss.1647:

Thrashbarg.9820:

It would have been nice to be able to guest between EU and NA servers, and hopefully they continue to work toward making that possible.

I’ve seen quite a few mentions of meeting in overflow in this thread. That doesn’t allow playing open world content together, only dungeons (as far as I know).

This is incorrect. You can play open world content together in overflow. You just need to form a group in an overflow region (Lions Arch) and then you can go anywhere in the world with your group.

Right. So what does guesting actually add to the game that isn’t possible now? You’ll… be able to access the guild bank of a guild on another server? Anything else? I’m serious here. :I

CaptainFabulous.8410:

Well they’ve been pretty consistent in not implementing things they’ve specifically said they had no intentions or could not be implemented, despite public outcry. So really, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for a reversal on this one.

There are significant problems with your suggestion. First off, it forces everyone to take up twice as much server space as you’d have both an NA and EU spot. That’s not practical. Second, since each datacenter is isolated from the other and do not communicate, how would they keep each copy synchronized? In the event of a communication issue which copy takes precedent over the other? Can you imaging the mess if there is an issue and a few thousand accounts get corrupted? How happy would you be then?

If you want to have a presence on both an EU and NA server simply buy a second account. Problem solved. Then you’ll be able to play with all of your friends no matter which region they are in and not have to worry about paying for server transfers or 7 day lockouts.

What? No, you misunderstand. The data centers DO communicate. I can add a friend in the US to my friends list and see them online. I can whisper to them. I can send them mail and receive mail from them in turn. I can join their party. I can see their dots on the minimap when we’re in the same zone. I just can’t kill things with them, or go with them into dungeons.

Furthermore, I don’t believe for a second that data storage space is a problem, but let’s say it is – it doesn’t matter for my suggestion. I proposed one home world in each region with free transfers between them, perhaps with an imposed time limit. No extra storage space required.

CaptainFabulous.8410:

No, you’ve been told why it’s not possible. Characters cannot inhabit both datacenters at the same time. I think that’s pretty kitten clear. You say “they choose not to” as if you believe they are purposely placing a limitation just to annoy you. And why would they do that?

And while it’s clear you want it done no matter what the cost and exclusion of other features and content, I’m sorry, but that’s simply not going to happen, especially for a free feature.

If that makes you no longer want to play the game, well that’s your choice.

I’d suggest you don’t speak for ArenaNet. What’s going to happen or not is their decision – all we can do is try to influence them, which is what I’m doing here.

I don’t believe they’re trying to annoy us. That’d be stupid. I do believe that they’re trying to get away from something they very clearly implied they intended to do because it has proven difficult to implement. That’s not okay. However, you’re thinking in blacks and whites – if they can’t (or won’t) do guesting, that means it’s over. Done. Finito.

Me, I’m thinking that I don’t really care how they implement it as long as I get to play with my friends. I made a suggestion in the suggestions forum about allowing for one Home World in each region. Does that offend your sensibilities as well?

Yeah. With the terrible disappointment that is guesting, please consider allowing for one Home World in each region, with free transfers between them, perhaps with a timer attached.

Thank you.

CaptainFabulous.8410:

You have no idea how much a server transfer is going to cost. It might be $30. It might be $1.

If there were better ways they would be doing it that way. Yet another person who insists upon calling the devs lazy liars. You were told why it can’t work the way you want it. Told in very clear, easy-to-understand terms. So transparent in fact, birds are flying into it as we speak. But because it’s not the answer you want, it’s not good enough. Well tough nookies. It is what it is, and you’re going to have accept it and work within it the best you can.

No, you’re wrong. We were told why they’re choosing not to do it the way we’d prefer them to. There’s a difference, and it’s quite a big one. Creating ways for us to play with our friends is not an impossibility. I don’t care how they do it, but I do care that they make sure we can do it.

Or, in simpler terms:

Nerfs to classes, implentation of more tiers of gear or broken events will not make me quit a game – any game.

Not being able to play with my friends, however? Well, let’s just say that’d decrease the longevity of any game right quick, right there.

Loosifah.4739:

For those of you complaining about them not doing this exactly how you want it and saying things like “Well make a 3rd international data center”. Do you even know how expensive it is to build/create a new data center? You want them to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a new data center just so you can play with your friend from another continent?

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: No, not necessarily. What I want is for them to solve this situation – how they do it is less important to me. I want to be able to play with my friends, as was strongly implied that I would be able to before the game was launched. The very fabric of an online game – especially an MMO – revolves around being able to play with friends. Now I’m being told that no, I can’t, unless I fork up an unspecified amount of money each and every time I want to play with them. I don’t find that acceptable in the slightest, and want them to resolve it.

Ethics.4519:

This is ridiculous. All you people sitting here whining and complaining about something great that Anet did for us. Half the people seem to not even have read the whole thing based on the ridiculous questions they are asking.

Thank you Anet for implementing it. It’s a shame we can’t NA/EU cross but it is what it is. I still appreciate the effort and the diligence to get this done.

Ridiculous? That I’m unhappy that it makes my situation worse? I have a friend in Australia who I will never be able to play with now, starting Jan 28, after ArenaNet implements this. And you suggest I should be grateful?

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Let me explain to you why you cannot guest on worlds in another region.

There are two databases: European player data is stored in our European datacenter, American player data is stored in our American datacenter. This is to ensure that people in these regions can still properly play in case there is an issue with the connection between the datacenters.

When you do a world transfer from the US to the EU (and vice versa) your player data is transferred from one datacenter to the other. This is not the case with guesting, as you are still “registered” on your home world.

I understand that some of you are disappointed that you cannot guest on worlds in another region, but considering the complexity of internet routing, our main priority is to ensure that players have as much of an uninterrupted game experience as possible, which is the reason why we have two datacenters.

On another note: I will try to get an answer to the guild influence question that has been posted a couple of times.

I understand you have your reasons for it, but I fundamentally disagree with them. If you can’t make guesting work in a satisfactory way across regions, then find a way around it. Seriously. Create International servers anyone can guest to. Allow free transfers without WvW. Anything!

You’re stepping all over us who were expecting to be able to play with our international friends, and what you’re saying amounts to “tough luck”. I thought ArenaNet was better than this. :/

Oreoz.2573:

here you go.

Now everyone be quiet.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guesting-is-Coming/page/3#post1221430

No, I don’t think so. I’d prefer to voice my discontent and my reasons for it, rather than accept an answer I’m not happy with. He stated their reasons, I’m not agreeing with their priorities. It’s not a technical impossibility, it’s a deliberate choice by ArenaNet.

Yeah, I’m extremely disappointed. The much-vaunted guesting implementation will, in fact, make sure that I will never be able to play with my Australian friend. I couldn’t feel more disillusioned with the obvious community disconnect right now.

Inkcharm.2541:

How about instead of the whole guesting system as it is now, you rethink the approach in order to make everyone happy?
Allow free server transfers once every 24 hours, but no WvWvW on the server you did not choose as home server.
Allow server transfers with WvWvW every…. idk, 7 days, free or for gems, whatever.
Stop restricting players in features that were already available, just because you can’t get something to work you wanted to implement and advertised without the restrictions that are now in place. This is honestly entirely ridiculous. Make the choice of Home Server bound to WvWvW and allow server hopping regardless of Home Server. Something. Anything.
Just don’t even pretend like the way you’re implementing guesting now is anything like what it was communicated to be in the beginning and what the free server hopping already offered.

Exactly. And I know we’re in the minority, but it’ll also tear the RP community apart – there are two unofficial RP servers, Tarnished Coast and Piken Square. Removing our ability to hop between them to participate in events and such is devastating :/

Rising Dusk.2408:

You still have 12 days to move to an NA server (or have your friends move to an EU server) to prevent any issues.

Oh, so you think an acceptable solution is for people to permanently reside in off-time zone servers? I live in Europe, and one of my friends lives in Australia. She plays on US servers, because the ping times and time zones fit her much better. I play on EU servers, because of the same reasons. We both have other friends in our respective regions. We were both looking forward to playing together with guesting.

Under this system, she and I will never be able to play together, period. How is that what was promised at all? And why do you defend it? How could a restriction like that possibly benefit you?

I am -exceedingly- disappointed in this. We were promised we’d be able to play with our friends, no matter what server they happened to be playing on, which now won’t happen. :/

This, combined with the removal of free transfers, means I’ll NEVER be able to play with my friends in the US. How is that okay? How could anyone see that as an acceptable solution? What a complete step down from GW1.

CC Charles.3675:

Hello,

Thank you for creating this thread. We made it a sticky, so that everyone can have a clear overview of it.

Please, remember to stay constructive and to respect the rules described in our code of conduct if you want to express your opinion

Thanks a lot for your contributions, we really appreciate them!

As I appreciate the blog post!

I’m hoping that it won’t end there, though. Will you guys expand on your answers and perhaps address things that weren’t brought up in the blog post? Perhaps in an attempt to improve communication with your players.

Kasama.8941:

That was quite an impressive blog post. I really hope you can see it through, and it’s not just a wish list..

You forgot to mention one vital thing, though: improving your communication with us, the players!

Agreed! Since release, ArenaNet’s communication has been pretty poor. I wish they’d ditch the overly “professional” attitude and just speak candidly with us about their plans, like they used to do.

eisberg.2379:

Warder.3491:

Vorch.2985:

I’m not exactly sure what is in those gear chests, but I am HOPING that it’s armor or even just skins for class specific armor. It may just be backpieces and jewelery though.

Long story short, too soon to tell.

Yeah. I just wish he would have at least touched on the subject, since it’s such a big deal that we still know absolutely nothing about.

Well he did say that they wanted people be able to get the most powerful gear playing the game they want to, including getting ascended gear. I feel it is safe to assume that people who just like doing the open world PvE will be able to get the most powerful equipment in the game, and I bet dollar to donuts that is what is in those chests.

Power I’m not really worried about, personally. Power you can get right now, even if it takes time. I’m more worried about everyone looking alike, and nothing from ArenaNet about it.

Vorch.2985:

I’m not exactly sure what is in those gear chests, but I am HOPING that it’s armor or even just skins for class specific armor. It may just be backpieces and jewelery though.

Long story short, too soon to tell.

Yeah. I just wish he would have at least touched on the subject, since it’s such a big deal that we still know absolutely nothing about.

I really like what he had to say, but one thing makes me a little concerned:

There was not a word in the blog post, at least, about new armor sets. I feel like the current offering is woefully lacking, especially for medium and heavy armor. There are simply too few sets that look too much alike, which is unfortunate when so much of the game revolves around cosmetic rewards.

On top of that, there are still many many NPC-only sets, even though it was said that we would be able to earn and wear any armor we saw NPCs wearing.

Any thoughts?