Guild Wars 2

My dismissive post? YOU are the literal definition of TL:DR people.

People literally never agree on anything when they’re in a position to argue.

I am done posting here because it genuinely makes me angry and I no longer see the point. You can think what you want but I’m trying to make the smart decision here and leaving before I say something I regret. You made one post, I made a dozen, you’re not required to post more than one, normally I wouldn’t care. However when I spend my time trying to accomplish something and I do spend a good chunk of my time posting this (30 to an hour per) only to get constantly berated, why even bother? I’ve already said my piece and since then, nothing but dealing with counter-claims.

I am not new to the game if that’s what you’re getting at, and you’re right, nerfing something for one specific thing is stupid, why not just nerf that one thing? Obviously you didn’t read my other ideas AKA compromises. You know what’s funny? The last part of your post. Look, I’m sure you’re a nice guy, you seem like it and I appreciate you voicing your opinion. This might seem like I’m just trying to leave a parting shot, I’m not. I’m just not going to waste more time acting, as I call it “diplomatic”.

First off I forgot to link the website so here http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/.

I realize that traits can offer large stat boosts, that’s why I suggested thag he wasn’t using beserker. I will reiterate, he wasn’t direct about his stacking bonuses, he just claimed to have ginormous stats without explaining how. Still hasn’t.

How wrong I am? I already explained the thought process, just because they do good damage with good tanky stats doesn’t make them bunkers. Matter of fact I’m beginning to question whether we know how to define a bunker. A bunker is " a build soley on the basis of survival", supporting their allies and the like. Can bunkers even effectively stack damaging boons on themselves?

As for condition builds, they do not have a tougher time of it for reasons I no longer care to explain. If you think it’s TL:DR that’s your problem.

Condi is a pain to deal with whether 1v1 or group fights. I think I’ve already responded to a similar post.

A power build without crit is like neutering a man, where’d all that testosterone go mate? I see your point but, like his ferocity is limited, so is damage without crits. Only class I see this as somewhat viable is ranger.

Alright, as enlightening as this thread has been for me, I’m more or less just saying the same things now. Again, if it’s TL:DR that’s your problem. I’ve said time and again this is not about anything other than condi’s but now we’re drifting into “everythinv is op if you think about it” land. So to the point, I no longer have the desire to continue posting. Again, thanks for all the posts.

Could go on a spiel on how to make this thread mean something but meh, all I ask is that Anet at least acknowledges our posts, but from what I hear about them they never do. I no longer find this a productive use of my time and I must now bid you all farewell. Au revoire (not French, lol).

PS: might respond to some posts depending how they picque my interest. Emphasis on “how”.

Xyppi.8061:

Please link me your build from this website , unless you’re afraid it’ll go meta. Those are some crazy stats, I have some assumptions but I’d rather not speculate. Just a few guesses though, you must have low ferocity because I don’t think you run beserker, you have that amount of power after you have full stacks of might (if so, pretty dodgy you didn’t post that. Same thing for that crit chance with fury…). I have a hard time believing these stats, especially the 32 k health thing. Probably full stacks of bloodlust as well.

I won’t respond to the other posts yet, I want it to build up for a bit. I am flattered that an older gentleman took the time to post here though.

I just wanted to post so Saerni gets back to me as soon as is convenient.

To anyone reading I’m researching now. I may end up eating my words from what I can tell so far.

Ok yup, can’t spend too much time on this, so from what I’m seeing right now I have no idea how he got this even with boons.

Please link me your build from this website , unless you’re afraid it’ll go meta. Those are some crazy stats, I have some assumptions but I’d rather not speculate. Just a few guesses though, you must have low ferocity because I don’t think you run beserker, you have that amount of power after you have full stacks of might (if so, pretty dodgy you didn’t post that. Same thing for that crit chance with fury…). I have a hard time believing these stats, especially the 32 k health thing. Probably full stacks of bloodlust as well.

I won’t respond to the other posts yet, I want it to build up for a bit. I am flattered that an older gentleman took the time to post here though.

I just wanted to post so Saerni gets back to me as soon as is convenient.

Bunkers doing tons of damage? Discrepency detected. Maybe against very squishy people, but if not feel free to provide proof of the contrary (multiple videos, preferably). Compared to other builds I have a hard time believing this. To go bunker you’re going to need more than just the proper traits, to do tons of damage it’s the same. People who try to balance this aren’t “bunkers”. Just because they’re tanky like most warriors or vanilla guards yet stilldoing good damage doesn’t make them op, I will reiterate, they’re heavies. If the heavy classes go full dmg anyway they will die just as quickly as you will to them if you go glass cannon or not.

If you’re worried about people with a decent to above average survivability look at condi builds, from the way people talk they tend to build a good amount of it. Just to bring us back to topic the thread is about condition damage and what should be done about it, not bunker builds. Maybe it would be if I had a lot of trouble with them, but I don’t often encounter them as I’ve said.

Guys, don’t be shy about posting, I really don’t mind so long as it’s not blatantly insulting me, and even then it’s ok so long as there is intelligent and thoroughly thought out ideas and/or counter claims. Just expect retaliation. Honestly the main reason for me to continue posting is to give food for thought. You guys are giving me ideas I would not otherwise have, for my build, and for the game.

When I attempt to dissuade counter claims with my rhetoric, it’s because you cannot accomplish change if you allow yourself to be a push over, it’s not to be mean, even when it seems explicably to be. Yes I do get genuinely frustrated but no task that’s easy is worth doing. I don’t expect much change to come of this, try as I might. I just want to plant the idea and maybe someone out there more involved will nurture the finer points and spread it. So please, keep the posts coming, and if someone can dethrone me I welcome it.

In terms of burst yes, of course it is. Ok so I think we’ve been looking at the danage comparison between direct damage and condition damage all wrong, ultimately, it’s about dps. If you compare the dps between condition damage and direct, there’s almost no comparison. Again, not saying either does more damage as it widely varies, saying one thing is better or worse often isn’t true because (I know I said I wouldn’t get philosophical) in my opinion nothing is so black and white.

What this whole thread is about is balancing conditions, not weakening their damage potential but creating a damage reduction stat. All damaging boons work to accomodate both types of damage, even fury. What you said “keep the balance” is contradictory because it’s not balanced as it only affects direct damage and not condition and condi can do plenty of damage, just as direct can in bursts. I do not think if protection reducing damage from conditions being implemented requires a buff to conditions. For one, not every class has that luxury, two, the boon is meant to reduce damage, that is it’s purpose. It is a game mechanic like any other.

What you, and others have said about condition damage giving you time to react whereas direct damage doesn’t isn’t necessarily true. In fact, it’s not much different from direct damage in that regard because as with utility skill cleanses you have invulns or resistance, and traits that also do that and reduce damage or cause you to go invuln. However there are no invuln traits toward conditions either. If you have utility skill cleanses, that reduces your effectiveness against other direct damage types, so most don’t, admittedly condition builds are less common than direct. If you don’t have stun breaks you will die against direct damage just as you would if you didn’t have cleanse against conditions. However your arguement is that you can’t do anything if stunned without stun breaks whereas you can if you have conditions. Well for one, the same situation applies here as well, most of the time all you need do is land a successful nuke (a lot of builds are built around that) and then run away. Yes, if you miss or they have resistance, you’re chance of winning is significantly reduced whereas direct damage can keep up the pressure. However not all are built like that. In the case for the chronomancer (mesmer spec) they can use that ability of theirs to shorten their cooldowns anyway. Nuking builds have plenty of renewable dps without their nukes as well, they tend to be squishy, granted, but all they have to do is kite, and if they get caught just stun break away. Condition builds and direct damage builds can do this, like I said in a previous post, all classes now have plenty of stun breaks now, you can still react unless the person times their cc well, in that case the person is just good.

Maybe once upon a time condition builds were mainly purposed to take down bunkers, but it’s really not about that anymore. Bunkers are bunkers because they do no damage (in my experience, honestly it has been a while) they’re nor much of a threat, just annoying. To the arguement of “oh this build just killed me his build must be better than mine,must be op” or “this killed me in an odd way, I don’t like that, mother call my lawyer”… Stuff like that, one, perhaps you’re projecting? Two, just because he seems to be unkillable, doesn’t mean he’s much of a threat because to him, you’re unkillable. The only time they’re threats is if he’s contesting in a point, withouf invulns and massive heals and even then, no one can withstand sustained dps from 3 people while doing none in return. If they’re running off toward your camp and you know you can’t kill him alone even with the npcs just call for help.

On the subject of stun breaks, in my mind they’re the direct damage counter equivelant to condi cleanses, following that logic HoT implemented plenty of these, but not a whole lot of condi clear.

Like Umbra said, a lot of your tankiness comes from your traits and skills, as conditions bypass your toughness I assume you mean cleanses, and resistance when you say tankiness. I’ll save you the trouble of reading through everything and just try to help you better understand.

Cc conditions are still a problem as a lot of time you cleanse the, let’s say cripple (I wanna say vulnerability) instead of the big damage like the flame stacks. Confusion and torment are a mesmer’s main source of condi damage, so gonna have to disagree with you there. For bleed you usually need to get some pretty high stacks to do decent damage I’ll grant you that. You’re talking mostly in regards of zerging so allow me to correct you on some points. Yes, if you stand in AoE, namely a bomb, you will usually die. Small groups can bomb effectively as well, so this is contradictory to your statement of small groups not bursting you down. They can definitely do this with ease in a few seconds, all they gotta do is wait out your invulns. Condition builds in zergs are definitely still viable and I’ve seen them in use plenty of times. Ever played pick then get like 10 stacks of flame on you? Or longbow warriors and staff necros and purging flame bombs and blab vlah blah, point is it’s viable. Just need the right composition and condi rotations. It’s all very nice on paper, less so in practice. I’m talking guild v guild groups of course, pug zergs don’t run this obviously.

Flat nerfs to damage aren’t the way to go. Like Yuffi pointed out it’s crucial that it’s not something for nothing. I speak as though I’ve pointed that out before, I have not. As for boons, I always thought that was more for group comps than individual builds. Might stacks don’t bother me as much as the permanent protection some classes can do. Maybe because warriors don’t have access to it and so that opinion is biased, but still that’s my opinion.

I may have mispoke, I mean to replace condition damage and nestle that into the power/precision/ferocity stats, it’s just that it would scale in a different way. It would do power damage, not condition. However yes, doing both kinds of damage can be a real balancing issue, D/D eles would thrive for one. As for the ratio as to how much condi damage you mitigate, I’m not sure how it would work in terms of how much condi damage youvwould reduce, I would like it to scale on par with armor and toughness because by trading off either of those two, you make those direct damage builds stronger, so at least make the trade worth it.

As for a condition version of aegis, as Umbra pointed out you can still block conditions about to be applied. There are traits and skills to bypass this, but that is their purpose. Maybe you’re thinking of a condition version of protection, in that case I agree. Might stacks grant condition damage as well as power, why doesn’t protection grant condition danage mitigation by the same %? Condition damage is the anti bunker build I understand, but in my opinion it also the anti everything else.

The base application frequency would be different for each. Confusion and tornent would require no ferocity (read previous post, paragraph 4) but poison and bleed would have like a 2 second application frequency but flames would have 3-4. Instead of condition duration, it’d be stacks that determine the conditions length for damaging conditions. So say you had 5 stacks of poison, you’d have to cleanse it or tough out each stack one by one. Amount of stacks is often how people determine the damage their about to revieve, by removing that indication perhaps Anet could add numbers above conditions to accurately potray the damage you’re about to take, in pulses not total.

Another problem would be multiple people applying the same condition, so how about each condition applied, if by multiple people will stack over each other rather than each individual pulse belonging to an individual person.

Also, what if instead of it just applying the condition damage of the first thing first, what if it determined the damage being done by ratio of total posssible damage but at a severely reduced rate, so for the current condition being applied it would be 100 % damage taken (excluding my other ideas) and for everythjng else, perhaps an added 25% of total damage factoring all stacks of the same type?

Let me know your thoughts.

Ok, first off thank you all for your posts. I’m not saying power builds are doing less damage than condition, I’m just saying condition builds are a lot easier.

Divinorium, I do not think power builds need an increase in damage, look at burst warriors and thieves. That wouldn’t hurt condition players nearly as much as everyone else, literally.

On the subject of doing more damage to uh, in my opinion overcompensate I would like to quote a friend of mine’s idea. I was actually hoping he’d post it himself but I guess he’s just shy (next time I see you I’ll look into your eyes, say that and worse!) so I’ll post it with some of my opinions.

“Conditions should scale off power” and function just like direct damage in terms of stats and perhaps with invulns and blocks, with precision and ferocity (not his words, mine) adding as a supplicant to damage as it is with direct damage. Perhaps the power would scale the condition damage in place of the condition damage stat, the precision would scale up duration, and ferocity would be.. The rate the condition applies? So for that last one, say you have 180 % critical hit dmg modifier from ferocity, I dunno exactly how it would scale in terms of ratio but for example that extra 80% modifier would give 20 % extra condition application frequency for damaging conditions.

I can already see problems with this, for example a lot of people would be going hybrid and there are definitely classes that could do it. I just wanted to get his idea (with my input) out there, let me know your thoughts. Please don’t respond with just “KILL IT, KILL IT WITH FIRE! WATCH IT BUUUUUUURN.” That would not be constructive.

The arguement being made against condition builds is that, as they tend to build survivability you need to do more damage to out burst them, however durability runes are tank gear, it gives you a second (a few more seconds with boon duration) of resistance, but everything else on is useless against conditions, including the protection. The only othr good thing is the vitality, but due to the lack of mitigation… I digress.

Certain classes do need survivability, specifically the ones who don’t have stealth, mesmers and thieves don’t, not necessarily anyway.

Gonna keep this one short, I’d like to enjoy my WI-FI while I can haha.

I’ll probably post something later today.

Not all classes have boon steal, the ones that do tend to have lots though. I’m trying to keep away from the boon build discussion beside for the resistance to keep this thread on topic, just so that’s clear.

Like it has been said, it is very difficult to deal with certain condition builds, namely mesmer and thief. I’m not necessarily talking about their stealth, though that is a large component. Engineer, necromancer and ranger condition builds are a fair bit more difficult to play, that I will admit. Of course however you have to play to each classes strength, but if you say the whole problem with condition builds is stealth, I will return to my previous statement is the amount of damage that can be done. Even for burst thieves, they hit you a few times, run away, rinse and repeat. However with certain condition builds you land your combo and that person is dead unless he has a full cleanse skill or resistance.

I appreciate the gesture and I approve of the thought process you mentioned to be a better player, however, as many have said the classes are unbalanced. Instead of unjustly blaming myself (if I did I wouldn’t even be posting any of this) I acknowledge that a lot of the time there are just things that are too difficult for me, not everyone is a god at gaming. That being said, I’m not bad at the game, in fact I consider myself a good player, I’ve had to deal with this condition build onslaught for so long that sometimes I don’t even want to roam anymore. At that point I just stop playing, it’s frustrating. So instead of just complaining, I’ll do it in a constructive manner. I will again state my proposal for those who are thinking TL:DR.

I propose a form of damage mitigation for condition damage by implementing a completely new stat perhaps called constitution or by applying damage reduction to conditions using toughness but on andifferent ratio, but no one likes the idea of toughness mitigating conditions so I created a compromise. So, a new stat altogether that preferably scales with toughness but not with extra applied toughness, or just a flat new stat.

However by introducing a new stat it would take the place of other stats on gear. Ok, so I know that this would take a lot of work on the part of Anet, but, what if instead of a stat like healing power or whatever, what if it was like an armor stat, but you could change the % between armor from items, and constitution? Of course, a stat like toughness but for conditions should still be implemented.

For those worried about conditions no longer doing any damage because of this, well yes itvwould certainly do less, but even at 3k toughness, I still have a hard time against direct damage thieves. It won’t be that much different in terms of higher damaging condition builds as thieves with direct damage are.

As people have said, condition damage is about outlasting your opponent, but I don’t see that as true considering the amount of damage they can do. The same can be said about direct damage, sure, but the arguement here is that condition damage accomodates different play styles, I just don’t see that as true. Of course every class, every build, every specialization is different. Some are easier, some are harder, some take more skill, some less. This is a universal truth, however I’m not about to get philosophical on you. I understand some people will take offense to my statement of play styles between direct damage and condition damage, so please, since I do not actually play condition classes allow me to explain myself in way of responses.

Believe me, I’m not trying to be stubborn about this, I just genuinely believe this to be the correct course of action

PS: Please look at Yuffi’s post if you would like further details into what could possibly be implemented or perhaps give yourself ideas for a post on how this could better work. I would quote the mentioned post but I’ve never done it before and I’m worried about accidently deleting this post.

Jim Hunter I’m pretty sure you’re the one trolling me. I do quite enjoy how you try to belittle my ENTIRE thread by claiming such a thing. Also funny how you decide to say that over the most irellevent (in my opinion) part.

As for power counters yeah, but that’s a whole lot easier.

Sorry going to keep this one short as I have a lot to do tomorrow.

First off, can someone do the math on the insane amount of resistance? Because apparently you have an extra 100 % boon duration, I can’t even fathom it. Your idea to being good against condition damage is by being COMPLETELY immune to it. How do you fare against other direct damage classes? I assume you have insane might uptime, plus you probably have rousing resilience, so assuming this boon duration is possible you must be the biggest, baddest warrior around. With the meta being as it is today though, I dunno, it probably is possible and I kind of hate that it is and that the solution to being good against condition is being completely immune to it. Which does suggest people do sympathize against conditions, they’re just not being very vocal.

Statistics and traits go hand in hand, but you don’t need me to tell you that. You build based on what syngergizes best, according to stats, traits, and play style. I’m not saying that I’m going to let my play style hold me back, I’ll adapt, but at a rate I choose.

Before I forget to mention again, which I did in my last post, by mitigation I mean damage reduction, not invulnerability. As for the person who said I’m only talking about 1v1’s, look at the one person’s post mentioning him running havoc with his guild as all conditions, do you understand how cancerous that is? I appreciate him posting that and his brief mentioning of its effectiveness.

As for build diversity, in my experience for roaming, it’s either play the meta or gtfo. If anything this proposed idea based on mitigation will increase the variety because, in theory, should this be implemented more classes will play more hybrid to balance between the “constitution” stat and the toughness stat. That is very doable. Not saying everyone would do it, but as more players balance between constitution and toughness, there is more room for experimentation. Thus, increased diversity.

What confuses me is that everyone I ask or whenever I hear about conditions in game, people are always saying how overpowered or how tough it is to fight condition classes, but here, on the forums, I feel like everyone is defending conditions. Now, I understand that these things tend to be very hypocritical, I came in fully expecting that. For example, look at the WvW polls. Remember how everyone hated the desert map? Later, when Anet polled whether to bring it back, most people (I remember it was like 50 % to bring it back to 30 % to not ratio and 20 % for some sort of compromise? Feel free to correct me on that) voted to bring it back.

Another thing about build diversity, due to the fact that conditions are as prevalent as they are in roaming, it forces builds to adapt and play heavy cleanses and so forth, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing but it is a negative factor on diversity. However, in an ideal world no class would be countering any other, but alas, I digress.

PS: I don’t know either necro or ranger’s skill level, in my mind the necro would win, as I have no evidence as to the contrary I’m just gonna leave my opinion to N/A.

I don’t know about everyone else, although I feel like I do, but I tend to get bursted down by conditions pretty quickly. I probably will start running berserker stance and I will get more damaging gear, but enough of that. Alright I’m going to go in order from first to last.

1. Ok, I initially didn’t know much about rangers but reading up on them they seem to have plenty of condition clear if you go down Wilderness Survival and maybe take signet of renewal. If you don’t go down that tree, you’re probably screwed, but maybe it’s like the defense tree with warrior whereas most of us see that one as mandatory. Again though, the ranger would have no precision or ferocity with full soldier’s and in my opinion would lose in an even match. Feel free to link me a video or two on this as I could not find any specific to this. As someone mentioned, most condition abilities do not only apply condition but also apply some direct damage, while if not built for this it can be rather miniscule, it adds up. Maybe not the game changer, but it is a factor. Against full soldier gear though, not much at all.

2. Well I already sort of replied to this, but to add some depth which was lacking from the previous post due to being rushed yes, no single condition will kill you, if it does, well you probably messed up. You’ve mentioned what condition thieves are capable of, I appreciate that. Ok, so a lot of different skills? I guess, but they can all be applied in a rather short combo, like mesmers with their clones, condi thieves with venoms, engineers with their dual pistols and wrench kit. I do my best to try dodging and blocking all of these things, but it’s hard. I’m sure most of you can sympathize. If you can’t tell, my main issue is with mesmers and thieves, and yes, partly because of stealth. So to give myself breathing room, I will be taking berserker stance.

3. My main issue isn’t with condition necromancers, I don’t see nor fight them enough when roaming. I can’t say with certainty that a power ranger will beat a condition necromancer, druids certainly have the kitability but vanilla rangers, they only have their greatswords. This example sounds pretty situational, like is the necro trying to face tank the ranger as warriors oh so like to do? I dunno. Like I said it’s not impossible to beat condition builds, it just feels impossible against mesmers 1v1. Good ones? Forget it I’m out. Bye. Has gone offline

Hasn’t precision builds (all direct damage builds) been nerfed in the past? Instead of a flat critical damage modifier they instituted ferocity in an update. How many bad builds did that effect? Were they keeping those bad builds in account? Or were they just trying to balance out the classes and the stronger builds? This affected everyone, the change I’m asking for isn’t all that different, I guess most of us have just forgotten.

4. I’m not saying I should be able to tank everything and win, that’s stupid. I’m not saying I go up to people and expect to live through ALL of their damage by just taking it up the butt. Way to stereotype warriors btw, some of us have.. depth. Like I said in a previous post, no matter how tanky I am, I am like paper to conditions, it makes a stat completely irelevent, toughness, whereas no other stat is like that. As a warrior, that affects me most, wheras yes, I would stand to benefit most, or at least the heavy classes would, by what I’ve suggested. I need to be in the front, I need to be aggressive, in their faces or I’m just not doing my job. I dislike the killshot rifle build, not my playstyle. If you call that stubborness or failure to adapt how bout you play a game just to win and not enjoy it.

5. This last one I already explained myself, if someone is willing to provide examples, I’d be grateful.

Ok, as for your last post I will respond to probably in the morning, as I would like to actually play the game now haha.

Ok for the last part I mispoke, of course the conditions would do less damage if they weren’t there at all. I meant if the necro had the clear and the soldier gear had the, well lack of. I may have misread that. I will definitely reply to all of your points Umbra Noctis, for example I will reply to one now. What I meant by “my experience” and as you so astutely pointed out as none, is fighting them. What I meant by “kitten tons” of damage, is in fact that, large amount and very high damaging condis being applied in very short combos or just one hit like a thief can do. Feel free to correct me on that as I don’t play condition classes, am I at fault for that? You can call it ignorance if you want, all I ask is we keep this civil and mature. So right now I have to go, as I said I will respond in due time, maybe today, if not definitely tomorrow. Thank you for taking the time to post, all of you. Apologies if I come off as a little, aggravated.

Alright, I’m understanding what you’re all saying, some of it irritating, some of it helpful. I want to first bring up what someone said about condition damage being equivelent to direct damage, or at least, that’s what I took from the post. So here, dire stats is equivelent to soldier stats. Ok, well in terms of stats, yes, that is true. In practice, again, due to the lack of mitigation that is no longer true. Let’s say a full soldier kitted warrior, guardian, whatever. Let’s say he went up against a full dire necro, mesmer, etc. Who would win? Firstly, the person with soldiers has no precision nor ferocity, just power. Even with fury, the crit chance isn’t enough. So obviously the dire stats would win out. Ok, that was fairly obvious, right?

Moving on, someone mentioned direct damage being easily reapplied just like condition damage, alright. Now let’s say a condition thief, nuking me while I’m trying to “reapply” my direct damage to his face hole. Is that going to work? No, why? Well because of the reason some of you continue to bring up he knows how to play, and evidently I don’t. Let me explain, from what I can tell, it takes one hit to apply a kitten ton of conditions from my experience. I’ve never played a condi build, not saying that’s because I’m trying to act noble or some kitten, but because I don’t enjoy it, simple.

Now the problem I have comparing direct damage, is not the raw output, and yes, contradiction detected, I know. It’s the ease it takes to apply the conditions, one mistake, you’re dead, like I said… Perhaps the same can be said for direct damage? Well, not really. Every class, especially after HoT has stun breaks, A LOT of stun breaks. So unless that person is just standing still, I’m not going to get off my damage spikes. Getting my spikes is just about timing. I’m not saying it’s impossible to beat a condition class with a direct damage class, I’m just saying it doesn’t seem like an even fight. Maybe now you’re thinking just follow him or her around and auto-attack or whatever, you don’t need cc. Well yes, I do, to land my eviscerates, hundred blades, etc etc. Warriors have plenty of cc, so I don’t mind all of the stun breaks, otherwise we’d be gods. All I’m doing is pointing out the difference in difficulty between condition builds and direct damage. Am I saying condition builds are easier? I suppose I am, but it’s about playstyle, so perhaps that opinion is biased. Direct damage destroys “noobs” faster than condition damage for sure, but against more advanced players it’s a “tad” more difficult.

To those who say my proposal as to help ease the issue that is conditions and I quote “self-serving”, I think it’s far more self serving to allow conditions rampage on as it is in this game for those who play condition builds. So what if it benefits the heavy classes the most? The heavy classes are meant to be just that, heavy, go in deep, be aggressive. To do that we need to be able to survive, and there’s not much you can do against unmitigatable damage. I’m seeing far less suggestions than I hoped for aside from the one post I read and I will mention by name Yuffi, he or she makes very good points and I advocate this kind of response.

PS: Why would a condition build, namely with Dire stats do less damage, ever, do less damage assuming he or she is running the proper weapons and utilities against the soldier stat person with the proper weapons and utilities? Because of a difference in condi clear? I don’t understand.

PSS: I got outplayed by getting nuked from 100 % at 22 k health to 0 with one short combo. Sure. Granted I wasn’t paying attention for approximently 1 second, and the fact that my initial reaction was to pop healing signet but then got interrupted. This last part I will admit is a misplay, I should have popped stab first, but I honestly don’t remember if I had it up, I just finished up a fight.

PSSS: I’m not saying condition builds take no skill, I’m saying those with the skill have an easier time with it than direct damage.

Condition damage and builds do more than just outlast you in fights, it can do as much burst as thieves, look at condition guardians. I’m always looking to improve myself and expand my knowledge on how to better fight, matter of fact I take offense on what you’re implying, not that I dislike you for it, I see your point.

Perhaps this seems biased, seeing as I play warrior, and yes, it’s how I got the idea, but this would apply to all classes. Like I said, it would have to be applied in a different ratio. What you said about it being best on tanks? Sure, but it makes tanks seem like toys. I’m not a tank, I’m just tanky, I have plenty of condition clear, again, like I said. I’m asking to keep the subject on the damage potential for conditions because I want to focus on the issue here.

Honestly I don’t encounter many condi necros, and I don’t play one. I do know however, that their potential for condi damage is massive. Perhaps I would be able to better handle them because there more of a solid target, but like someone mentioned above, most condition players build survivability. Seeing as necros have a lot of health, condi necros are definitely viable.

As for disengaging, you can’t disengage from a thief or a Mesmer, especially if they have the upperhand. You won’t be able to get out of combat because of all the condis, they’ll just run you down. It’s either stay and fight, or die. Of course, you’ll probably die anyway.

Another thing, I don’t want to have to build simply to accomodate for condition classes, then what about when I have to deal with burst thieves? Or other warriors? I’m already depriving myself of quite a bit of damage and survivability by taking cleansing ire instead of rousing resilience, or brawlers recovery instead of destruction of the empowered. I will admit, situationally rousing resilience is probably a bit overpowered, so conditions existing is a good thing.

So on that note, how about a compromise, because I definitely do seem biased and selfish here. How about instead of condition damage being mitigated by toughness, what about the introduction of another stat instead? I’ve heard talk of something like this in Gw1? Never played it, anyway, something that scales off of toughness, or is a stat of its own altogether. From what I read, someone called it Malice?

Like someone mentioned, I dislike how conditions require two stats whereas direct damage takes three (condition damage and duration). Alas, however that’s why I would prefer it to scale off of toughness in some way. Perhaps not adding scaling to the extra toughness we apply. Because like I said, rousing resilience would be very overpowered if so, and I think I should apologize. I was being rather warrior-centric here, that’s the only class I play aside from guardian, whom I only run with zergs.

I’m a decent warrior, I know how to use the healing signet, and I run plenty of condition clear, such as cleansing ire, and brawlers recovery. I do think warrior has the most source of condition mitigation in the game, (guardians have the most clear) what happens for me, is that I’m constantly getting blinded, so half the time my burst skills miss, and when it DOES hit, I typically clear the most useless of the conditions because I believe the way condition clearing works is the last one applied to you is the first one to clear. While the damaging condition is still there. So that’s another problem.

For most people, including myself, condition classes are just too difficult to deal with. 90 % of the time what happens to me, is that the class tries to nuke me, then stealths to get away. By this time I’m popping my signet of health if I failed to block or dodge, which last 6 seconds. This is not enough time. So now I’m getting kited, trying to clear using cleansing ire on perhaps the Mesmer’s clones, or constantly switching my weapons, but by then, the condition class just has to wait it out, then reapply. You make one mistake, you’re dead, this is the same for good or bad players when playing against condition classes. The difference being “good” players probably have clear.

I’m a tanky warrior, not a zerk, though I certainly do plenty of damage, that is one of the warriors strength. What am I to make of it when one of my main stats, toughness, is completely bypassed? Sure, I could build more damage then, sure I could swap out endure pain for berserker stance, but my point is an entire stat is being made completely irelevent. There are a lot of times where I’m just nuked out of existence and there is nothing I can do. In the literal sense, sure, but in a game where I would like to enjoy my time? Not saying I don’t, I’m a chill dude, but when I see a problem that can be easily fixed, I’d like to at least take a crack at it.

PS: I’m not trying to talk theoretics about how to fight condition classes, or anything like that. What I’m saying is that when they DO land, you’re usually dead.

So first things first, in Guild Wars 2 all I do is WvW, and mostly I just roam. I mainly play warrior, and therein you already see my dilemma. I’m posting this in the general discussion forum because this also applies to sPvP, which I do not do. So, instead of telling you all of the horror stories I could about the cancer that is condition Mesmer (being moa’d then nuked) or double pistol Engineer, or condition thieves… I will just get right on to the point.

Yes, I’m asking for a nerf to condition damage, but in a way that doesn’t necessarily strip it off its damage potential, just the ability to mitigate it with toughness. As a warrior, I have a lot of toughness, aside from looking cool that’s what heavy armor is for. Roaming condition builds, especially Mesmers, destroy anything and anyone in a 1v1. They can just as well deal with more than 1 person at a time if they’re good and doing so is far easier than handling a situation like that than with any other class I believe.

So that’s my piece, if you have any other suggestions as to how better to nerf conditions or if you agree that conditions should be mitigated by toughness (probably not the same ratio to how direct damage mitigation is applied) please leave a comment.

PS: I understand if you condition players out there hate this idea, but no one enjoys fighting you, especially against Mesmers.

Defending in WvW has many oversights, firstly, there are a few spots you can’t defend against. In the alpine BL at south east tower, there is no way to counter the catapults in the tunnel. The stairway up from south gate hills catapult spot is impossible to defend against as nothing can hit it unless you wanna dive the zerg, which is usually not a good idea. My main problem however is the shield generators which make it impossible to defend against any zerg that use it. Trebuchets behind gates don’t work because of the infinite bubble the shield generator produces, we can’t use arrow carts usually because of the zerg size, meteor showers for days. Another issue is that the watergate at inner Garrison in the Alpine Borderland is paper. That seems like a massive oversight, I think it’s been like this the whole time Guild Wars 2 has been out, but I’d like if it was changed to scale with the keep upgrades along with everything else. Every other keep has it, why does inner water gate Garrison not? You can call it a feature, but when I’m losing garrison to a flash mob I’ll just call it bullkitten. I know I’m forgetting to mention a lot of other problems, but I unfortunately don’t have time at the moment, and I want to to this post before I lose the urge too later. If you have other complaints please add them to the comments. This is just a small list, I hope to make it bigger with your input.

When I bring up the topic of defense in WvW I understand I am speaking for the minority here. Maybe more people would do it if it was more plausible. When I say defense, I mean holding objectives such as towers to the castle.

It’s either WvWvW changes, or I stop playing Guild Wars 2. But I’ll be honest, I haven’t paid for anything on this game other than the fee to buy the actual game. I truly enjoy this game though. I might even be willing to pay renewal fees depending on what promises they make and only after I see proof they will fix WvWvW.

Ideas on.. better? No, add rewards for defenders, I forgot to add think on that one but I’ll leave that to anyone who actually reads this.

Part 3
(1). Population. Need I say more? In WvWvW as it is in EOTM, you win because of quantity, but in my mind it should be quality. Let them mindlessly zerg in EOTM, I want focus, strategy and tactics, experience and skill. In combat and in initiative, people occasionally call me annoying on my server because I make too many call outs in chat. It just looks bigger than it would in words, but of course I must take it and defend myself when I feel I should. (Which is not often). I am tired of this, I want people other than me to be defending camps, with groups rather than alone. I want everyone to watch the map and check for swords then call out if it is clear or not. (Opinion…)

My ideas on a solution for population imbalance fixes are somewhat radical.
Merge WvW(vW) servers by 2 each. Merge based on balance of quality and quantity. Quality meaning individual statistics (approximate % of WvW(vW) ranks and contributions meaning caps) and analyzing larger guilds to decide whether they are an organized WvW(vW) guild that fight together, roam together, zerg as one. But doing this would only allow for 1 match up for the entire course of the Gw2 if implemented. So, EOTM, it’s about zerging, and loot. Why not have that for the 1v1v1, the massive fights that made WvW(vW) in theory more fun and exciting, when in truth it is usually a 2v1 in WvW(vW), very rarely 1v1v1 for zergs. 2nd and 3rd focus on 1st, always, they have too. To the point, how about WvW, that way it is far more quality based, for example : Green attacks Blue Side in EB, takes QL, then goes to Dane to resupply. However the Blue zerg has beat them to Dane and now a zerg vs zerg ensues. Green pushes Blue to the choke point and then it becomes a battle of who does what first and how, and most usually getting tunnel visioned, so it takes a while for most zergs to recover from that. Meanwhile, Red sees orange swords at Dane choke point and decide to attack whoever is ahead, and more often than not so many will be distracted with the zerg vs zerg fight that Red zerg will take Bravost then Durios, or Aldons then Wildcreek with a likelihood to succeed due to a lack of a defender(s).

Of course a complete.. overhaul, of the map for WvW would be necessary, but I’d rather Anet to work on that for a year, than them working on only PvE for that year, by adding.. maybe a zone, a living story or 3.. But that’s my opinion.

Part 2.
(2). What I mean is ; I find that objectives are far too easy to take, especially with the population imbalances. I, we, lose towers because of a lack of.. a defender, any, defenders. Defense is just so unrewarding, staying in objectives to watch for enemies is just unbearably unsatisfying and boring for me. (Oh, yeah I’ll just place this treb here… a few arrow carts everywhere.. Shoot, they brought an omega! I’ll have to call for help.. Wait a minute.. More like 8 or so hours! It’s 3 AM here! And we have little to no coverage in Eternal Battlegrounds at this time let alone our BL and no organized WvWvW guilds are ever on at this time for my server!)

This is a short term view for defense, strongly influenced by population imbalances. Firstly, improved AI for camps. In the very least change their pathing, spread them out including the melee and increase the melee NPCS range, make stacking less beneficial. Add 2 Veteran Rangers (give Vet Rangers a knockback that activates in 1.75 of a second, remove one Veteran Thief and one Veteran Guard, but make the guard have more survivability, but not enough to make up for the loss of the 2nd Vet Guard. Vet Rangers are for counters against ranged, like Rangers, a Bearbow Ranger, the kind that specializes in PvE dps. I feel that ranged classes shouldn’t have camp caps so easy only because of kiting. (I have had a single invader take a fully upgraded camp alone, by stacking and kitting out specifically for camps. As we are in a bronze server I assume this sort of thing is far more prevalent in other servers. At the time I was the only one dealing with roamers in my BL. I was running back, and forth, and wp, and oh look, swords..) Increase wall height (makes it more difficult to clear siege), decrease arrow cart range but increase scrolling view distance. Make NPCS able to use siege on the walls, not gate. They would be able to use arrow carts, cannons, and oil. They would only target siege to make things simple. Increase amount of guards on the walls, 1 veteran archer on the right of the oil build site after the wall upgrade is finished, one to the left after wall upgrade is finished, and introduce new types, (..Veteran Siegemanner, something like that) that will do the siege work, make them have 75% of the survivability of a Veteran Guard but increased toughness when manning siege. (Weaker than iron hide but significant). Decrease siege disable duration to 35 seconds for certain siege like rams, and like the stealth disrupter trap, make it take time, like 3-5 seconds to throw a disable, give people time to react, not sure whether the disable is currently but make it blockable by projectile blocks, remove the shared iron hide bonus for rams, and replace it with a shield bubble only capable of blocking small arms that activates in 3-4 seconds and lasts for 5-7 seconds, the cool down would be 15-20 seconds. But these will likely need to be more balanced, this is “just off the top of my head” (small arms meaning player attacks and AoE, arrow carts, omega golems, disables and ballistae but NOT mortars, trebs, and catas). To balance this increase the durability of gates. I, am absolutely sick, of losing a tower because of a lack of defenders, and the short response time we get, even on fully upgraded towers. I have had enemy zergs just rush fully upped towers with 4 superior rams with masters, (disables were an excellent addition in my opinion but not the duration, and the cost should be increased, by badges of honor, 5 more or so, not gold)
Increase the 2nd upgrade for the gate (final tier for gate’s) durability by 25-50%. Make it cost the equivalent amount of supply, make objectives (excluding camps, sentries, and mercs. Obviously) durability, (not sure if it only a health increase or toughness, or both..) scale toughness and health, along with the progress of the upgrade apply this to both gate and wall.

Issues will be listed from 5 to 1 – 1 being the issue in the most urgent need of fixing or what have you. It’s a long post but I simply don’t enjoy WvWvW anymore, even less so now that my server is currently stomping our competition. If you can even call it that.

It looks very long but it’s like the equivalent of 3 maybe 4 pages of a long book. If you want to improve WvWvW don’t be lazy and productively criticize certain bits and offer ideas on compromises something different entirely, or remove that idea completely, but give reason why. I don’t mean to implement all of this at once, if so, do so, gradually. Beta test it, see what the community has to say.. This is assuming an Anet type person is reading this. Part 1.

5. Quantity over quality
4. Lack of incentive to play WvWvW in terms of rewards and satisfaction.
3. PvE events like living story and the.. Halloween thing, always pulls away most of the WvWvW population. For good reason.
2. Camp/Tower/keep/castle defense.
1. Population imbalances.

(5). What I mean is ; The server with more coverage, will usually win. Coverage is population, time zones and dedication. The spreading of a WvWvW community is not intentional, but it can be easily managed. (How specifically, I would like to know detailed methods). Quantity measure by play time in WvWvW and contributions (if they take two towers in a short amount of time and do this sort of thing a lot they tend to follow the zerg). Quality by analyzing the larger guilds in a server, see which ones are mainly WvWvW (guild upgrades, numbers, playtime, or just manually check the larger guilds) and analyzing individuals data on playtime, contributions and (not necessarily) WvWvW rank. Encourage transfers from this server, to that, meaning a server with an abundance of players that are on in WvWvW consistently whereas a server is sorely lacking in players at that time zone. Encourage by decreasing transfer prices in whatever way seems tolerable to your profit quota. Speaking of quotas, have the discounted transfers or free automatically stop once the transfer quota for the estimated balanced amount of transfers has been reached.. Like, only 5 people are on at this time in EB! (Example). The transfer quota would be 20 or so. Give minor incentives like an increase in magic find for a week or less and other such things, like maybe 3 kegs of WvWvW xp or less and a miniature quaggan, cuz quaggan, and a skin of their choice from a set tailored specifically for transfer incentive.

(4). What I mean is ; Lack of consistently good rewards, I, am primarily a defender. So I say this with experience that defending, while necessary, is viewed by most as boring, very costly, and unrewarding in everyway. It takes a determined mind to stay on defense consistently. As such, add a guaranteed amount of gold per individual credit kill over 2 silver, decreasing depending on how outnumbered one side is. If a Zerg vs Zerg is equal, 2 silver, I see no reason not to do this, I find it fun to make gold doing what I enjoy. Increase gold, guarantee an amount of gold for like 5 silver+ objective caps and add ’s for an increase. Add a base magic find increase by 5-10 for being in WvWvW. Give guards in lord rooms and lord a chance to also drop T6 and below mats. Perhaps you consider this unbalanced but PvE makes much more for doing much less. When holidays or living story events occur increase magic find % for WvWvW by maybe.. 10-30%, add decorations and things of the sort for WvWvW maps (if it was a.. Scarlet attack.. living story event change the harpy champion in ogres to a.. robot, thing). Give people a reason to mainly WvWvW, give us (me specifically, but I can’t be alone on that) a means to ignore PvE completely, [I certainly dislike PvE, alone. (Opinion.)

Well.. I don’t entirely understand the server rivalries, maybe you just mean Guild rivalries, which are healthy. Yes, all of the servers have the potential to queue, but the fact of the matter is, they don’t. There is no reason for mainly PvE servers which, from the looks is most of the Gw2 population these days, to play WvWvW when it offers so little loot and very little direction (pug organization) other than blobbing, for new people anyway. If you want to learn WvWvW, it’s simple, but it’s simply not worth it anymore. WvWvW’s unbalances are just too much, I believe it should be quality over quantity, but that simply is not the case.

And I kind of side with the removal of EOTM, unless my idea for WvW rather than WvWvW is implemented, my thinking on that is WvW will be more on strategy and tactics, communication and organization, rather than just individual fighting skill, whereas EOTM should be about massive fights. I’ll link the thread with my idea in an edit. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/WvW-Balance-1/first#post4553587

Constructive feedback is greatly appreciated. I have other versions on me explaining this, so if you have questions, suggestions, anything, you can ask here or mail me in game.

Nowadays.. maybe, but in concept he’s wrong. In WvWvW.. I would hope it’d be quality over quantity, I once believed it was the highest tier of PvP in an MMO since it feels productive whereas sPvP doesn’t.

I don’t know how it was why and when EOTM got implemented, I know that queue’s were just so often that people couldn’t play WvWvW more often than can in higher populated servers. I don’t think it was the more dedicated to WvWvW players that wanted casuals to leave, I don’t see the reason. It must’ve been the queue times, whether we all demanded or just wanted EOTM implemented, we had the right idea and intentions. But honestly, Anet screwed up with it, and now that I think about it, what has Anet done that has been healthy as of late? Living story? I dislike most of PvE since it is so repetitive, dungeons, definitely, not a challenge.

Did they just drop Gw2 production? Are renewal sales (monthly costs for MMO’s) that important since MMO’s are so expensive to maintain and Anet cannot recover because of all the mistakes on their part? Ultimately, it is their game, what happens to it is their glory or fault. But in the end, I’m an individual, and I honestly love this game, I want to do whatever I can to sustain and improve it, at this point I might recommend them starting donations if they promised particular updates, fixes, etc.

Well, this website “stopped responding” when I clicked post reply. So here is the shortened version.

Separate the “mega server” into 6 servers, each merged with 2 servers based on who does what data, guilds and individual statistics. Same thing with WvWvW servers, merge WvWvW servers by 2 to balance the servers out, as is now the higher tier ALWAYS beats the lower tier, not because of strategy, not tactics or overall quality. But because of quantity.

So as for the WvWvW server merging, same thing for the “mega server” separation merging, merge the 2 servers based on quantity and quality, quantity meaning getting an estimated amount of people evenly across all servers, quality meaning factoring the guilds, WvWvW guilds, and individual contributions and statistics.

So my main concern with my idea is this, there would only be two match ups. So I say this, and I will justify my idea afterwards. Instead of WvWvW, WvW. 1v1, classic. As it has been since launch, WvWvW is a 2v1, example ; Green attacks Blue side, Red sees swords at Dane choke point, they realize Green is busy with Blue. Red takes a fully upgraded tower, and so on and so on. I find that the server in 3rd place ALWAYS focuses the server in 1st because they have no chance.

What really concerns me, and if implemented will likely cause the complete death, murder, really, would be the removal of white swords. For one, why should people HAVE to stay inside of EACH and EVERY one of towers and keeps. BL’s would be a mess. EB is tolerable but how would this be fun in any way? How is this healthy for WvWvW? Or if my idea is implemented, WvW? If it was smaller scale then I might tolerate this, but as it is not, as this game has plenty of players. No, I refuse to just watch as this knife is brought down on the heart of WvWvW, where the blood will be players leaving the life of Gw2.

To summarize, 6 servers, each consisting of 2 merged servers. For WvW, and for PvE, and yes, WvW. WvWvW is an exciting idea in theory, but less fun than if it was WvW for reasons explained above. White swords removal is a TERRIBLE and game ruining idea, I say this as primarily a defender. And how WvWvW works as it has since launch, in summary of the meta.

As for solutions on the population issue.

Remove the “mega server” thing, I don’t mean entirely, just separate them to make 6 or less servers, this will get people to stay loyal to their server, there is no server pride anymore. Merge WvWvW servers for more balanced match ups in terms of quantity. Merge 2 servers together that have a certain WvWvW population, with all of the servers, to even them out. Balance the quantity, next, increase transfer prices, I know this seems unfair but WvWvW as is, is not fun. The reasons for people to transfer as of now is pretty much only being fed up. If they were to transfer after the merges were implemented, it would be to stack, it would be to win and nothing else. Selfish, which is why I recommend increasing transfer prices after this is implemented (theoretically).

As for the separations of the “mega server” thing, think of it this way, PvE is infrastructure, WvWvW is the military. In my philosophy, Gw2 infrastructure is only for gear, and what use is gear if you don’t put it to use? One of the reasons why sPvP is unpopular and kind of stupid in my eyes, is because I don’t use my own gear. WvWvW is the greatest challenge there is in the game. I only do WvWvW because nothing else is a challenge, excluding sPvP but you know my opinion on that. WvWvW just feels productive whereas sPvP does not.

To summarize, merge servers together according to population and WvWvW dedication, even out ALL of the servers. Get them balanced in estimate, this is the quantity balance. For the quality balance, it is not hard to find the main WvWvW population, those dedicated to WvWvW, so, also factor in mainly WvWvW guilds, very large guilds, and data for WvWvW players, play time, contributions, etc.

I am fed up with WvWvW, I only get on because I feel needed, and I am. I know that, but at the same time.. Because of our coverage, our numbers against the larger server… What can I.. we.. do? So I chose to instead, keep ruining my day with WvWvW, to fix the system, to try too.. To do this instead playing Gw2.

Anet, as is, is a disappointment to me, nothing more, nothing less. But I’ll continue to try to change the WvWvW system, so here are a few of my ideas.

The main problem with WvWvW is the population, the higher tier stomps the lower tier server. Not because of skill, not because of strategy or tactics. But because of numbers, in this case it is quantity over quality, the two balance out. But quantity is all it is in WvWvW now, and the higher tiered servers stack, and stack. While those transferring because they are fed up are leaving the servers that need more people. GoM, for example. I don’t know what I can or will do to get Anet’s attention, but before I try that I need to have solid ideas on solutions.

Another thing I would like to see changed and updated with WvWvW are objectives, as is, it is just impossible to hold against 30+ players unless you have 4 at least already inside. 4 superior rams, boom, gate down in less than 3 minutes. Not enough time for a response. So, make objectives harder to cap, including camps. Really, all you need to do for camps is improve the AI, not their strength, like their pathing etc. Example, stop making stacking so beneficial and an easy way to cap camps so quickly. Make gates more durable, but update siege to make AC’s weaker to players but stronger to rams or just siege in general. I understand that making objectives harder will be very unappealing to most, but a good defense is the best offense. You gain points by maintaining them, not capping all of EB then log off the rest of the day. Doesn’t have to reduce damage, maybe just range.. something. I know as a primary defender, that holding things alone, it’s almost not possible against 7 or more. if you’re not already inside. We almost always lose objectives because of a LACK, of defenders. What am I supposed to do about 3 omegas at Hills when I was at Bay working on siege?

How is anyone supposed to defend anything without white swords? You know what, I think Anet is trying to kill off WvWvW, because this is just BEYOND stupid. I, am primarily a defender in WvWvW, and I know how it is doing so. I am normally only 1 of less than 3 usually. So we can never stay in one place long, so we can’t stay in towers or keeps. And WHY WOULD WE? That is possibly the most boring thing and unsatisfying thing to do. Anet, you do this, you kill WvWvW, at that point it will be unplayable. We want changes to population circulation, even out the servers.. But this? Obviously, you want to kill of WvWvW, why? I don’t know, but when you do this, know that you’ll lose at least 20 % of players, which I find funny since Anet seems to be trying hard to get more people to play Gw2, what with their advertisements and discounts on the game.. This was the first, and likely last, mmo I will get to max level and enjoy. I could never get into any other mmos but this one just spoke to me. You can imagine my disappointment.

EDITED
I’m not sure how most feel about this, but what if we just did WvWvW server mergers? I don’t know how many merges would be acceptable to the general masses but I think that would be an.. idea, a solution, clearly, as is, WvWvW is not fun, for me definitely. I only get on because I feel needed. I am doing this because I don’t want Gw2 WvWvW, the only thing I do, to die, which it is. Merge WvWvW servers until there are.. I dunno, but I’m thinking 6 servers, for WvW(vW) and PvE. Remove queues, or make the limit much, much, much, larger.

OR

Remove EOTM (Edge of the Mists) in lower tiered servers.
Why?
Well, I get on WvWvW and see less than 30 people in Eternal Battlegrounds pretty much 24/7, 0 people are on in my BL at all times. We lose, every week. Because of coverage, we have kitten good players, proof being, anyone ever fight against DUI? Not a member, but an admirer. But we have so few people. In EOTM I see 3x the numbers I would normally see in WvWvW. To compensate for the casuals and karma farmers, increase the WvWvW rewards. Make it more rewarding, because as is, I am losing so much gold and will go broke at this rate, because of upgrading. 110 g to 35 g in 3 weeks. Full time WvWvWer. Not entirely sure how EOTM works.

Just a few ideas of mine, I know this probably doesn’t seem viable but I want to get feedback and refine my solutions until this is presentable. Then I’ll try to get the attention of Anet and try to help fix WvWvW and get it out of this horrendous, almost unplayable, state.

I realize that there would only be 2 match ups at a time, which does not appeal and concerns me. As I have said in other posts, how about this. Instead of WvWvW, WvW, 1v1. As it has been at launch and as it is in meta, it’s a 2v1. Example ; Green attacks Blue Side, Red sees orange swords at Dane choke point, Red assumes Green has their zerg there busy with Blue’s and takes a fully upgraded Green tower. Honestly, WvWvW is more exciting in theory than WvW, but it is far less rewarding in terms of quality. So 3 match ups at a time as it is now with WvWvW, but instead it would be WvW. They would have to make serious changes to the map, but I think WvW(vW) is in serious need for map updating anyway and really, just a change in scenery in the very least, BL’s as well as Eternal Battlegrounds.

I have no issues with facing the same server over and over if we don’t deserve to fight the higher tiers, so long as it is balanced. Fighting a new server offers no variety anyway, as it is now. It’s either stomp, or be stomped as is.

To decide on which servers to merge with the other, it must balance out quantity and quality. Quantity meaning, numbers in estimate, merge the servers to get a certain amount of players in estimate, evenly across all of the merged servers. Quality meaning, factoring in guilds, mainly WvWvW guilds, and very large guilds, analyzing individual statistics and contributions in WvWvW and PvE. Do this for a healthy balance when merged, don’t do this and randomly merge servers, Anet might as well shut down the servers if they randomly merge two servers together, in my opinion. But I don’t want to give them ideas on stopping Gw2 production, so here is an example, DO NOT, merge two gold tiered WvWvW servers together.

So from what I’ve been reading in pretty much all of the WvWvW forums that I’ve read, and what I infer, is that Anet has not, and will not, improve or change anything in WvWvW when it so desperately needs updating etc, to maintain life. The main problem is population, I didn’t need to come here to figure that out, on my server, we have prime time, and after a certain hour.. it goes dead, and we lose everything to the server with better night time coverage. We have kitten good players, but we’re losing them, and will continue to. All because we cannot rely on others to relieve us when we leave. I try my best, but because of our coverage, there is really nothing I.. we.. can do. But to clarify, we are not losing them to other servers, they don’t transfer, they stop playing Gw2. Gw2 will never completely die, look at Gw1, still somewhat active. But it will eventually stop being fun, for me, it will stop being so when the people I have as friends start leaving. And that is already happening.