Guild Wars 2

@Scorpio

Took me some time, sorry.

I don’t know about self-entitlement, I know that since I payed for the game it makes me entitled to inquire about the future of the game if the owners don’t come out themselves to talk about it. I know how much effort making a game of this magnitude takes, still it’s not an excuse to not care about the community at all, keeping people in the dark because they don’t want to talk about what they are doing. And it’s really not about investing in community outreach. It’s about wanting to talk about the game with players. They could have done that in beta, why did they stop now? It’s simple, because they don’t have anything to say. Because any not insignificant, blurry and meaningless response have an impact on the sales. There are games out there where lead game designers talk about what they work on, what people can expect in an estimated amount of time. And better yet, THEY DELIVER. Also, nobody said I want a game polished from the start. People are aware how the game creating process goes. But people want to be cared about, want to be listened to, and want to be informed what’s going on. Then they have patience and understanding. Otherwise they get angry about being ignored and leave. So before I leave and convince others to do the same, I want to ask the questions, even if I am to be ignored and ensured that nothing will change.

epicsmooth.7825:

@Zireael.3285: what are these other MMOs that can handle a few hundred players with spell effects and not cause anyone lag are?

I didn’t say anyone. I said server won’t lag because game engine was designed to handle the pressure, not avoid it by not displaying enemies.

I don’t want this thread to change in a discussion about other games like “no, this game was lagging at x place, and that game didn’t have so many effects” so I won’t give you any specifics. You’re free to look for them yourself. There were a few with at least 2 still live and kicking today.

The point is, if you create a game with a lot of positional data that needs to be crunched by the server on the fly, then you take under consideration that only a certain amount of people can play that game in a same place without issues. If you ignore that and try to hide it behind a system that makes the game ridiculous by not displaying people around you, then you shouldn’t be selling this game at all. Of course as long as you want to be honest and respected company.

Umm, nope. Tri-faction is the answer as long as you make scoring based on combat, give outnumbered people buffs and credit for resistance and support server community building which with free transfers is nonextistent aside from big guilds.

I wouldn’t mind having on top of that the opportunity to kill whoever I wish from my server for doing stupid things, but it seems that Anet carebear attitude won’t allow that. I cannot even focus on killing people of my own chosing without getting in trouble for alledged griefing.

Ahahahaha, epic.

This game is seriously going to hell.

Makes you think what are they doing there not banning all those accounts yet.

epicsmooth.7825:

Zireael.3285:

epicsmooth.7825:

You do know its intended that you can’t see your whole zerg and the enemies at the same time right?

Nope, I don’t. What is the reason behind this actually?

Lag issues is the pretty big one.

You do realize that if you design a game that cannot handle the load of your own chosing then it’s pretty lame? Especially if such games were already made in the past that could handle much more people in one place then this one? Don’t you think that it would be honest to inform your customers that your product is designed that way because it cannot handle more load?

Raze, as a customer and a person educated and experienced in public relations I have a full right to ask a company that took my money for a product what is being done about improving that product in areas which seriously lack polish. Especially, if that company decided to not inform their clients about anything they are doing with it. And even more if that approach changed from beta when they asked and listened to what community has to say. As a customer, I shouldn’t have to guess what they’re doing. Community should be informed about steps that are being taken at least weekly, of course as long as they care about that community, which right now they don’t.

And yes, being kitten upon makes me rude. They don’t have to answer, but silence will make even more people ask for their money back. Suits me. No answer means nothing will change in the areas I asked about and that also means the game stays boring and a waste of money. Being a member of a company that makes any kind of a product I would answer to such questions, because leaving it without answer means “I don’t care”. That situation already happened in a lot of MMO’s. It’s a very clear sign to the community: “nothing will change, abandon the ship”. I wouldn’t want to make such an impression, but honestly I care less and less about this game by the day. So getting an honest answer instead some dumb copy pasted politically correct messages without meaning would actually make me positively surprised.

Setch.2398:

Anet is quite respectable. Asking if they are capable of telling the truth? really?

Yes, really. I don’t care if a company is respectable or not. If they go from hands on approach to a kitten off approach towards the community within 2 months time then they don’t deserve any respect at all.

Setch.2398:

As stated above you can never permanently address botting or hacking issues. It’s an ongoing process in every online game.

Yes, I am aware. Permanently address botting and hacking issues to me means that if a bot is reported then it goes banned status within an hour from the moment it’s reported. When Orb hacker is reported then it goes banned within 10 minutes from the moment it’s reported. I don’t really want to wait days to see hackers banned because within days they are capable of permanently ruining any match. Same people were flying Orbs for days even they were literally reported by 100’s of people.

Setch.2398:

Nightcapping has already been addressed. Just because you don’t like the answer doesn’t mean it wasn’t addressed.

Then I don’t understand why there’s singled out thread about nightcapping out there. Besides they’ve said they might address that in more significant way. I want to know if they’ve decided yet to do it.

Setch.2398:

I am not sure why some people are still having issues.

Because it’s not fixed yet. Unless that’s how this system suppose to work, meaning that you SHOULDN’T see everyone around you. If that’s the case I would like to hear that from Anet as well.

epicsmooth.7825:

You do know its intended that you can’t see your whole zerg and the enemies at the same time right?

Nope, I don’t. What is the reason behind this actually?

I want a straight answer please. And CC Eva you’re not asked to participate in this discussion with your copy paste answers.

Every software company in this world is capable of specifying when something with their product will happen. Even if it’s a rough estimate, those companies are capable of giving it to their customers. I would like to know when will you fix your game engine to address invisibility issue permanently, that is when EVERY SINGLE PERSON playing WvW map is visible at the same time to EVERY OTHER PERSON looking in their direction no matter how many people are currently present around. Also, if this issue cannot be solved at all I would also like to hear it. That would a be a rare display of honesty from a game developer. Are you capable telling the truth at all?

I would also like to hear when will you permanently address botting and hacking issues, especially the Orb, invisibility and speed hacking?

And finally, when will you address nightcapping issue and scoring issue? Or will you be addressing them at all? If yes, when and how?

All of those issues, if worked on at all, should have an estimate when they will be deployed. Without an estimate, they are not being addressed at all, and asking people to be patient without telling them anything to look forward to, is just simple blatant disregard of their well being as customers.

Having said all that I’m waiting for Anet team member to answer the questions.

Doesn’t really matter who’s the best commander since the only winning strategy in this game is having a strong night crew fighting agains doors.

@Binafus. Yes, I can name here all the games that I played on proffesional level in my life so far but this is not about what you played in life, nor what did I. I can bet on beating your server because this is not 4 vs. 4 game. This is a cooperation game and Quake attitude does not work here at all. sPVP is not WvW. You can’t compare them, you can’t switch one for the other. If Anet leaves current scoring system in WvW it will be catering to the few hell bent on being the best whatever stupid pointless requirements they make to get it. The rest will just leave out of pure boredom of nothing to do not being heard nor cared about. Would you like to bet on which % bracket are you in? Would you like to talk about % of population that makes Anet make changes? I think I’ve said enough. You get the picture. Have a nice day.

Binafus, I think you got me wrong. We’re not casuals that play 4 hours a week tops. We’re not going to do anything else above what we do now because those efforts are not reflected in the score. The score is a reflection of 24/7 coverage not combat provess. As I stated before I can bet money on that you won’t stand a chance against us on the open field and in a 24 hrs match. Servers that should be number one should prove it in combat not in alarm clocking. I understand your point of view but you still don’t understand mine. You want to justify current scoring system because you put enough sleepless hours to get where you are. Ok, it’s understandable. And I want you to sleep in the night and prove your worth at the same time. Win/Win is always better then Win/Lose.

Binafus.8153:

Zireael did not mean to type your name wrong meant no offense.

Here are some of the things any guild can do to have a chance at being number one.

Require your members to que when online for WvW.
Don’t allow alts everyone get on their best toon to WvW.
Staying up when you need sleep in order to win.
Getting up early to play when you do not feel like it.
Recruiting players that can play when the main part of your guild is not on.
Maybe having to change servers to even out que times for 24 hour coverage.
Understanding Casual players have no place in a guild that wants to be number 1.
Double teaming the server above you in order to win.
Do not allow jump puzzles in your Warzones, everyone is there to win not screw around.

If you want to be number here are the things you have to deal with.

Sitting in Que when you want to play.
Playing later than you want too in order to win.
Everyone following someone elses directions even if you do not agree.
Having the majority of players think you win becuase the rules do not favor them.
Having players and guilds join your server that do not feel as strongly about winning as you do.

Yes, I know all of it. And I’m 100% sure that our 100+ guild nor our few hundred people strong alliance is not going to do anything above what we already do because playing this game is not a job nor some sort of sick duty. We’re playing to have fun when we want to. And we want to see the score reflect ALL people efforts, not just those playing at night. Either we get that, or we won’t be playing it at all and you’re still going to be alarm clock champions. I guess you won’t be bragging about it like being DAoC champion, huh? Nah, I don’t think so.

Namu.5712:

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

All I see is Oceanic this, Oceanic that. This is a global problem, It needs to be solved, ANet is expecting we solve this as a community but what community? As an Oceanic player, I’m willing to move out from Sea of Sorrows, but where? I cannot move to a full server and what if there is absolutely no off-peak activity on the one I go to? And what IF a full server is pretty much 100% NA player base?

These are just a few of many questions surrounding the situation, this is not any players fault or their location, we’re in the dark as much as you with the solution, ANet has to at least help in some way but so far they have not. Free transfer? thanks, but the rapid amount of guilds just picking up and moving is causing more issues then it is solving.

For once I completely agree with you. IMO we should keep this as a common ground and move forward from this.

WvW MANIFESTO:

• There is a problem and majority is unhappy about it
• This is not a problem created by Oceanic/Canadian players, in general this is not a problem created by players, but game mechanics/design.
• This problem can not be solved by players. Game mechanics/design need some improvements.
• This problem can be solved fairly. WvW is not doomed to die or become a niche sport, only a small player base can enjoy/compete.
• Solutions should not hinder any player’s game time. Should not prevent them enjoying the game, whenever they want to.
• Solutions should not provide unfair advantage/disadvantage to any player playing any time of the game. Players should not have to change their life styles to be useful/competitive on WvW.

Actually your making stuff up now. The majority are unhappy about nightcapping? Says who? I see the same people complaining about it in the forums. And on that note I see the same people defending it.

If you want to go by the forums, its pretty much 50/50.

Lets keep things real shall we.

If you want to keep things real I would say it’s population of 3 US and 3 EU servers with most points vs. population of all the rest. Since the first 3 have enough population to compete 24/7 and the rest does not, I would say that the first 3 think the scoring system is at least good, and the rest thinks that it at least lacks in some aspects. So using Pareto principle its pretty much 80/20 in favor of some scoring change.

Binafus, since this thread is about night-capping and you were already told that your input has nothing to do with it, could you please proceed to some different thread to proclaim your server provess in whatever it is that you think is combat? Scoring system needs to be adjusted to reflect actual combat and people participation. It has nothing to do with what players can do as a community.

Binafus.8153:

@Kazim

If that is what you think that is cool, everyone never agrees on anything in this game.

I know that being number one on the rankings only means one thing to me.

We scored more points than everyone else, dunno why that is so hard to understand.

It’s hard to understand why would anyone want to try to be alarm clock champion. Get it mate? Not yet? Ok, again.

You scored the most points in a competition to stay late at night or not sleep at all. You scored the most points in convicing some people from other time-zones to server transfer to you and fight with NPC’s when others sleep.
You scored the most points in nothing in particular.

I can do it all day. Got it yet?

Cloud.7613:

This is a global problem.

This is the only thing I can actually agree with you on. Because all I see you’re saying is “Oceanic this, Oceanic that.” Being from EU I couldn’t care less about anyone from Oceania, Asia or North America. I care about this game in general. So could you please stop pointing out how Oceania players are better or worse because of where they live? You’re not the problem, you’re not the solution. Could you focus on the problem for once and leave your i’m-living-on-the-end-of-the-world-complex outside of this forum? Please?

Thesilentflute.8761:

Well if they did lower the caps they would be fixing it. You would not be have to do anything with your guild or alliance … literally.

Umm no, making it more difficult to enter WvW is not fixing it. It’s making it more broken then it is now. EB actually needs more people because nothing ever changes there except the castle having different owners all the time. Unfortunatelly their badly designed engine and culling mechanism makes it impossible.

Thesilentflute.8761:

of course that fastest and easiest way to fix these issues is to lower wvwvw cap if you can’t get into wvw you will switch servers thats both day time and night time.

What? There’s no possible way we’re going to split our 100+ members guild nor our few hundred people strong alliance to make what Anet devs can’t and transfer to even out servers. It’s their job to fix it, not ours. Otherwise we’re to be payed, not them.

Spineless.6917:

This official statement is nothing more then softcore damage control. Nobody with a 3rd grade math level expected peak hour scoring systems. We ALL expected participation based scoring. We have been saying this from the very start of wvw in beta. We are still saying it now.

For the love of god are we getting a participation based scoring system or not? PVPers around the world are tired of waiting for an answer. Time is not infinite.

This.

Can we get simple yes or no answer? Participation based scoring system, yes or no?

Samfisher.7942:

Zireael.3285:

Yep, I could swear that you said you fixed that. Meaning no new person getting in the queue could enter faster then people already in it. Well, guess what, you didn’t fix it. It’s still broken, not longer then 20 mins ago my guild mate logged in, queued, and in 2 mins he was in WvW while other guildies wait an hour or even 1,5 to enter.

Is there any way you could actually know what you’re doing Anet? I’m getting kitten of your growing incompetence.

Nope, I don’t think they did. Last update on ques were that it will take some time to fix.

I think I read it on wiki update page back when they still updated it. Then they realized the fix does not work so they removed information about it. Yeah, that must be it. You could expect something like that to be fixed after over a month of the game being live.

Tell that to our 100+ guild and our few hundred people strong alliance. We’re not moving anywhere.

Yep, I could swear that you said you fixed that. Meaning no new person getting in the queue could enter faster then people already in it. Well, guess what, you didn’t fix it. It’s still broken, not longer then 20 mins ago my guild mate logged in, queued, and in 2 mins he was in WvW while other guildies wait an hour or even 1,5 to enter.

Is there any way you could actually know what you’re doing Anet? I’m getting kitten of your growing incompetence.

lollie, just for your information, EVE hubs blockade that forced CCP to rethink their approach towards the game was executed by a lot of people but we were there also. I don’t care what I was advertised to buy, this is what I bought and this is what people want. CCP got it to their heads that either they make what people want, or they won’t have a game. It’s simple as that. CCP made the system time-zone friendly and still worth contributing time and effort to it. GW2 is not worth that time now. And I can ask for my money back, trust me. I’m never ashamed of asking to get my money’s worth. With that said dear Sir, have a nice day.

Yes lollie, I want the devs to do all the work I and all the rest of the people payed them to do. On my part I hereby promise that I will do everything to make my server win whatever 2 servers we’re matched against as long as the scoring system reflects combat and not stupid nighttime objective capping. And I also promise that I won’t move server until my guild is here and that means as long as we play this game. If the game is unplayable on this server then I won’t be playing it at all and get my money back.

MagnusLL.8473:

So instead of fixing your own problem as a server (field people during NA sleepytime/daytime in other parts of world and become 24/7) or as a guild (move guild to a server that either doesn’t care about fronting 24/7 and be happy that way, or to a server that already fronts 24/7) you’d rather threaten the game devs.

Are you for real?

Here’s a newsflash: I paid Arenanet to play this game.
If they want me to fix their development blunders, they need to pay me instead.

I couldn’t have said it better.

@lollie: I payed for it so I want the game to be the way I, or in this case, WE WANT. If Anet wants to make the game for themselves then I expect they will be the only people playing it. If they want us to stay, then the scoring system MUST and WILL reflect combat. Otherwise we won’t be here. And yes, it is a threat if you don’t see a problem. You can’t seem to talk to people these days any other way then pointing a gun at them or threatening to take their money to actually make them do what needs to be done. If you don’t make threats people see it as merely complains, as “people always moan” or “they want an easy win”. We’re not some dumb american wow children generation. We’re veterans of many PVP games. We want good, hard, rewarding combat system that promotes tactics, strategy, communication and perfect execution. And here’s an information for you, server transfer to win does not mean any of the above. We picked a server at start and we will stay on it and wait for the devs to make the WvW playable. We will wait and do absolutely nothing until WvW is fixed. Get it? Nothing. We payed for the kitten thing so we want it fixed. WANT. Not ask, not even suggest. WANT.

Legael.7806:

WvW is a pointless part of GW2 for mine and many other servers who don’t have night capping guilds in off peak.

If this carries on for the next few months you won’t have queue problems any more in WvW but you might have to merge a few servers

Just remember WvW is end game for a lot of guilds and if night capping isn’t solved they will move on to pastures new

Exactly the situation for my over a 100 people guild. Most of those people came to this game to WvW, since DAoC, Lineage 2 and Warhammer days are long gone, we didn’t have the opportunity to really fight for any castles in a long time. This could be our Mecca, as long as the scoring system is completly changed to reflect combat not night-capping. Otherwise we’ll look for the promised land elsewhere soon.

Since people can move servers whenever they please, matching servers based on their up to date performance doesn’t make any sense. If server composition is so kitten important then they should FORCE people to join ONE server until it’s FULL with people from all over the world. Then open another one and force people to fill it up again, and so on untill they run out of people that want to join. Then their idea of matching would be perfect. Since they let people choose where and when to join, matching does not work and makes people migrate to servers where they have a clear nightime advantage instead just staying where you are, build a community on a server of your chosing and be able to fight on equal terms with every other server on this planet. That’s not only community ruining move, it’s just outright wrong because it promotes ways to contrieve the system and transfer to whatever server wins instead organizing and actually fighting to win. People should be rewarded for fighting, not for being where it takes nothing to win.

Cloud.7613:

fadi saaida.6587:

Not sure if this has been suggested but what u guys think of this solution.

X= players number on the map from server A
Y= players number on the map from server B
Z=players number on the map from server C

When a team capture a tower/keep. the score will be determined by how much other servers have on that map. for example:

Keep will be worth 25 point on peak hours on offpeak hours Server A capture a Keep: his points will be 25 ( y+z/x). this will ensure that if a server have more ppl than the 2 servers combined it will need more keeps/tower, and if a server getting steamrolled it will ensure taking a keep/tower have a bigger impact. this score system exlude camps since it’s easier to take and flip. the more disaapropiate the numbers are the more the score system will scale. imo this is an elegant fix easy to implemet.

I think it has come up, but not in detail, nice explanation and idea :>

Yeah, it was suggested that score needs to be dependant on the mount of people present on each world. Since Anet is not really showing important signs of wanting to change anything (we don’t have enough manpower to do that, we find fighting NPC’s in the night fun) they are currently checking up on people mood in this regard. They will post their ideas before they change the scoring system. Right now they’re just chatting the community up.

Zepolak.2095:

The only way to really solve this issue lies actually in one of the first Anet posts. The community to even out the servers. Spread population through the servers.

Yes, it’s going to happen when the majority of this game population gets fed up by the uneven scoring system and leaves. The rest of the people that stays will spread out evenly upon few of the servers that are left.

I’m not entirely sure if that’s the right idea. I want to have lots of people in this game to fight with. And I want to have the possibility to fight with them on equal terms regardles of the time when I or them sleep or log-in.

lollie.5816:

Zireael.3285:

Taking objectives with 0 or close to 0 defenders…

Properly matched servers won’t have one with 100 players and the other 2 with 0 players – eventually servers will be either 24/7 and at top and matched to each other, or servers that don’t have 24/7 populations and they’ll also be matched to each other. There won’t be this disparity you worry about.

Ok, I’m fine with that. As long as 24/7 servers are not regarded as “better” in terms of combat just because they happen to acquire guilds from Oceania or Asia to play for them through the night. That means they shouldn’t get more score because they are capable of taking stuff unobstructed and getting score for doing nothing. Simple as that. Changing the scoring system eliminates whatever “proper” matching people have in mind. Not to mention that current system in a few months time will be completly stagnant in terms of servers you play with. First three will always be first three and will always play each other. I repeat, people need to be rewarded for COMBAT AND STRUGGLE vs. PEOPLE, not versus computer controlled characters, or for holding stuff taken without any effort for many hours till afternoon when people start to show up at try to take it back.

JonPeters.5630

Night capping is fun, WvW is 24/7 but getting steamrolled is not fun and we need to work on that to make it better.

No Jon, you got this completly wrong. Night capping means fighting NPC’s. There’s nothing fun about that. You want to tell me that Anet LIKES to fight NPC’s more then fighting human players? Well, if this is your position and idea of having fun then to me it means I need to give you the game back and take my money because nothing will change in this regard.

Getting steamrolled means that either you’re in the wrong place or your server is underpopulated because:

1. It’s the middle of the night.
2. This particular server is low on pop all the time.

Since your idea of balancing means people should transfer to servers that are low pop to avoid queues, what will you do when high pop servers with people from all over the world get matched together eventually as they are prone to get most score under current scoring system? Well, those people will tell you that this system is great. Since their 3 servers have high pop AND people active 24/7, they won’t get the down sides of night capping because the battle will continue to go on there all the time. People would naturally want to avoid losing due to night capping so they’ll transfer to those servers even increasing queue times. So you’re getting yourself shot in the foot.

Current system favors people fighting off-peak hours. You shouldn’t favor any people fighting at any time. People should be rewarded for their combined efforts at any time not for the effortlessly taking the whole map in the night and doing nothing during peak hours. Only taking objectives should give score, holding and upgrading keeps should give other non-score bonuses. Taking objectives with 0 or close to 0 defenders shouldn’t give score either. Combat and struggle needs to be rewarded, not holding on to stuff through the night.

lollie.5816:

Zireael.3285:

People should be…discouraged to fight when other servers presence is close to 0.

Those are our natural playing hours. You suggesting we should be discouraged from playing in our own timezone? Don’t bother replying, because yes this is what you’re saying.

Bravo! That’s exactly what I’m saying. You should be discouraged to fight with NPC’s. If you’re not bored to death with taking undefended keeps you should be discouraged to do so by getting 0 rewards, 0 points, 0 whatever for doing it. It’s not really everybody elses fault that your natural playing hours are when the rest of the world sleeps. Move or play with ppl in your timezone so you don’t have to fight with NPC’s.

24/7 fighting arena is a good thing. People getting same amount of score for capping things at 5 a.m. with no resistance as people capping things at 7 p.m. with all servers 100% presence is outright wrong. The score should be based on the amount of deaths/time that was needed during capping an objective or at least the time that one server hold on to it and amount of upgrades one objective had. For example capping a keep with 0 upgrades and 0 defenders should give 0 score. Capping fully upgraded keep with three servers fighting for it should give highest possible score.

Before you implement any idea you come up with to adjusting scoring system you should have one thing in mind. People should be encouraged and rewarded to struggle and fight with as many people present as possible and discouraged to fight when other servers presence is close to 0. What is the point to WvW when there are no enemies except NPC’s anyway? People should be rewarded even more when they defend against uneven odds like being outnumbered 2:1 or more, or being attacked by 2 servers at the same keep/tower at the same time.

No. And that’s my last MMO if disappointed yet another time.

As a Ranger using mostly longbow with increased range I find this three, obstructed, out of range, invulnerability, happening way to often. And I’m not talking about obstructed behind obstacles, out of range far away from me, or invulnerability on skill use or with corresponding status effect.

Obstructed and out of range usually happen during heavy fighting, so with always present lag, skill delay, and player invisibility. That’s another example why the current main problems with WvW are server related not client/network related. If I see people running around throwing their skills, evading, finishing others and so on, while I can’t even start to autoattack, that means server is not responding to my input.

Obstucted and out of range also happen when people are right in front of me so I’m 100% sure they are within 1500 of maximum range, at least on my computer. Another thing is that server might not be recognizing my, or my enemy position properly thus placing me behind an obstacle or further away from my enemy.

Another funny thing with Obstructed and out of range happen when people start to run away from me, also during heavy fighting. I’ve seen situations like “hit->obstructed->out of range->hit->out of range->obstructed->hit” more times then I care to count. And that was on a flat ground so no possible faulty placing behind an obstacle could have taken place. There might have been Guardian skills placed somewhere which of course I didn’t see, but I don’t know anything about any class throwing “out of range” skills. That again might be attributed to a faulty position recognition on the other hand.

The third one, invulnerability, occurs when a person goes to a downed state. Before he hits the ground, he’s completly immune to any kind of damage. I understand that UI must change to present the player with new set of downed state skills. Unfortunatelly the delay is completly ruining the combat. If 20 people focus on one person, he shouldn’t even enter downed state because the moment he would have been presented with downed state skills all his remaining HP should already be gone. Waiting for the person to hit the ground to be able to start killing him is like asking him impatiently “can I? are you sure? are you ready now?”.

To summarize it all. Everything mentioned above causes the current ridiculous WvW state and strategy. One group attacking another must run into it, throw all AoE skills they have on the ground and start targetting whoever is first to pop up upon hitting TAB. Before the enemies start to appear on attacking group screens, half of them would be downed, few killed, and the rest running for their lives not knowing what hit them. The dead on the attacked side get all the information first because being dead causes the server to send all information out in an instant. They suddently see everything, enemies, allies, npc’s, effects, spells. Unfortunatelly being dead has the down side, you cannot do anything. Attackers see the battlefield last. They see how many people they killed, how many bags they dropped and what’s the current situation. So basically it doesn’t make any sense to do WvW now. You’re unable to avoid skills that you don’t see, you’re unable to outmanuver enemies that you don’t see, you may at best be quick and lucky to evade just in time and just in the right direction to survive and run away. The long lasting truth is more then obvious here – the mindless Zerg wins.

Seriously Anet, fix your game. And you better fix it fast. There’s also a warning here. Don’t you dare to release any content/cosmetic/pve related updates before you fix your engine. People seen that before, and since you became very quiet on the subject of the state your game is in and what is going to happen next with major WvW issues, it’s rather obvious that you have no idea how to fix it yet. It’s a bad sign so be sure that people know it and are ready to give your game back.

Ok, did you ever happen to be in situations in WvW where at least two servers cap limit meet each other in one place? That means over a 100 people in one spot.

Yes, he said that lag you encounter may come from those sources. It does not come from network nor client performance in the case of my guild nor other people that I spoke with that had the same problem. We’re not asking for assistance here, we’re not talking with support, so you see no specs. Client and network issues were ruled out by people that have this issue for some time now. They may be network issues on Anet side. Either way it’s not people PC’s at fault here.

Leiloni, you just came to this forum or started playing the game yesterday? EVERYONE in my guild, and that’s way over 100 ppl, have this issue. Ppl with all kinds of computers, from insanely good, to garbage. It’s server side, it’s proven and confirmed even by Anet in this very thread.

Exactly my point, Scalyon. But at that moment things like amount of money/time needed to re-design faulty engine come into equation, along with how many people can this investment attract vs. how many people will leave until it happens. Usually the necessity to re-design the core of your game is way to expensive/time consuming for the investors to care to pay for it. Then the game goes into limbo state, where it’s only supported along it’s current content and some additional content being added to inject false hope into people that something will change. After a year or two the game dies bringing enough money overall to restart the cycle and within 3-4 years the same company releases another similar game.

The main question is if we are already in limbo state, because Anet from being awfully entusiastic about their game became awfully quiet.

Raffie, Warhammer nor Rift never fixed it. Those games were designed to NOT render more then certain amount of people/effects in one place. So the question is not when, the question is if at all.

Preacher, come on mate. Opportunism is one thing, helping other server outright is another. We did use one server attacking the gate, wiped them on their way to inner and continued from there on ourselves. But we did not defend other server keep from their enemy for no particular reason and asked them to do the same when our keep was under attack.

And now you want to tell me that servers are content with their position? Well, maybe DE are content having 40k points advantage so they finally started to fight each other a bit out of pure boredom. And it’s seriously not about conspiracy, or being proud or not. It’s about flawed game design that instead being attractive is causing people to lose interest. It’s fun to wipe both DE servers attacking one keep for few hours straight, no matter if they do work together at that particular moment or not. But it’s not fun when scores don’t reflect the actual situation on the battlefield. If Anet needs to have some kind of score count, make it a death count. If you have thrown yourself against a fortified keep and for some amount of time achieved nothing, then all your server deaths go to the server keeping the keep. But if you took it, you get the score. Or something like that. Current scoring system does not reflect actual situation and favors nightcapping instead real fighting, and also favors two servers banding together just as Anet designed it. But what stops them from banding against weaker enemy to get higher in the score count? Nothing. Change the score system and you’ll have people fighting for the sake of having a fight, not for the sake of a score or rewards.

grifflyman, if I wrote “you suck” and only that, then yes, it’s not constructive. Did you read the rest?

Simple example, 23rd and 24th of September, 2nd and 3rd day of a new match up. Seafarer’s Rest Borderland, everything upgraded to the max. We were continously trying to take Bay or Etheron. Every time we tried to attack one of them, first we had to clear one server, then expect to be attacked by the other server from behind. Not to mention that they were standing next to each other on numerous occasions just waiting for us to do something. And yes, now tell me that was because there must have been an Orb in both keeps at the same time and that it’s how the game mechanic works. If you have an enemy standing next to you and you’re doing nothing then yes, you must be blind to miss what’s going on here.

Same nationality servers shouldn’t be mached with each other. And the score system takes all the pleasure away from fighting. There’s nothing fun about winning in the evening, waking up in the morning to be 20k points lower. It’s pointless to fight.

nachtnebel, and I understand that it’s easier to keep wiping at our fortified keep then to take something that belongs to other DE server? Please keep the BS to yourself. You work together since this match up started.

Dee Jay, if you read the 2nd part of my post you should notice that it’s directed at ANet not at provoking anyone.

Hackuuna.4085:

Zireael.3285:

Dosvidaniya, I don’t really want to discuss this with anyone. As Riyu stated, DAoC 10 years ago was able to sustain 100+ people in one spot without them being invisible or without lags. I want the same now and I don’t buy BS about technology and code. If the game lags and people are invisible then the code is badly written and the game runs on s h i tty servers. Period.

You must be amazed that most FPS game servers can’t really handle more than 64 players and it’s been like this for as long as I can remember. That’s more than a decade of technology advancement and yet there is still some relatively small limit on those server capabilities without massive lag.

No, I’m amazed that companies sell BS and people buy it. I remember DAoC handling a lot more preassure then this game. I remember Lineage 2 handling epic battles of few hundred people at the same spot also sieging a castle. But if you want to blame technology, let’s imagine a situation where every person is represented by a square let’s say 10×10×10 pixels. Every person is capable of hitting one other person with one skill on a flat map. How many people represented that way at the same spot can current technology handle? And please don’t tell me that 500 people in a world like that would cause a massive multimillion dollar cluster servers to lag or stutter. It’s pure BS. So if they created a world with nice graphics and many skills so that now their engine couldn’t handle 200 people in one spot then they made a mistake which should be fixed or the next thing I’ll do is ask for a refund. They could make massive battle games 10 years ago, they can do it now. If they care to spend enough money on it and don’t put income vs. performance in the same equation.

Yes, I know the theory. Since the other two servers support each other, that means they don’t fight for their keeps nor towers nor supply camps. That means it’s impossible to break supply chain, not to mention it’s also impossible to lay siege against 2 servers. Simple as that. 400 people always wins against 200 people no matter how good organized in this game. There’s just no possible way to outsmart this setup without shorter time necessary to kill gates/walls.

Ever tried to build more then 3 trebs in one place and hold them at the spot long enough for them to break the fully fortified keep gate? If you had and made it then you didn’t play against 2 servers helping each other. Besides even if you get through the outer wall, at the inner wall keep holder team is on the walls, the other teams rapes you from behind. It’s impossible situation to break without siege equipment dealing more dmg vs. walls/gates then now.

All three groups are highly organized and it’s boring. Right now 2 servers attacking our garrison at the same time are failing miserably at it because they are not even capable of hitting the gates properly due to all our siege equipment on the walls. And when we try to hit one of their keeps, they either help each other and we get killed or the 2nd team attacks our garrison and we end up in the same possition. And yes Revenant, I do enjoy resistance, but I didn’t buy this game as a Cold War simulator where nothing ever changes on the field. Also our guild alone has 30 guys who pony up the cash without a problem. I wouldn’t mind fighting a whole day for a keep but we’re already fighting 2 days on this map and nothing changed since the new teams got matched. It’s boring. To me the walls and gates are too hard to kill. Either they have to much hp or siege equipment is too weak vs walls/gates. Increasing power on siege equipment or reducing doors/walls hp would definitely change the stall.

Ok, so we got to the point where the map we’re playing at is completly stalled. One server holds left keep, other server holds right keep, and since it’s our borderland we hold garrison and two towers. Everything is upgraded to the max. Nobody is able to do anything except fighting for supply camps. No team is capable of taking any keep nor tower, every keep or garrison sieges end faster then they start. We run around in the middle skirmishing on the roads between garrison and keeps fighting for the middle ground. No progress, no fun. I expect some ninja 5 a.m. garrison taking which is going to be even worse. I don’t like it where the wvw is now. I loved it when we could actually win some or lose some, or at least win a lot or lose a lot, stall is boring as hell.