Showing Posts For anking.6245:
Really, context is essential.
The bow is vital to several builds in all the game types. The nerf to true shot is a nerf across the board, because it’s used everywhere. Buffing some niche skills (an entirely minuscule gesture, as CD reduction hardly gives shouts the ‘umpfh’ to be on par with other support classes) doesn’t make up for the fact that they’ve beat up on an already sub par class.
We still have no spirit weapon, consecration, or ulterior weapon changes that we’ve literally begged for. For literal years. What’s ironic is that even with the old TS we could barely keep up in competitive play. Medi roaming is essentialy dead, as the old build has no aged well with power creep.
I’ve switched to Revenant for WvW play. None of my guild seems to mind.
The problem with shouts is not their cooldown. The problem with shouts is they do not provide enough benefit. Buff SY, SYG, and HTL boon duration.
Virtues buff are welcomed but ultimately minuscule.
The CC nerf is perfectly acceptable.
The Trueshot nerf is not acceptable. The casting animation coupled with the large amount of meta reflects and other damage negation made this skill easy enough to avoid.
The other LB changes are welcomed.
I’ve no comments about the other changes; they stand for themselves. Once again these changes reflect many of our concerns; other weapon utility, consecrations, and spirit weapons keep getting ignored. Stop that. Pay attention to our feedback.
Snip.
Assuming the DH is left well enough alone, these are the changes this community really needs to be harping for!
With the exception of Amplified Zeal for Burning builds, Radiance GM traits are a joke. Many need recategorizing. Like you said; half the signets, all the spirit weapons, and half the consecrations are less than viable- they’re entirely useless. The Scepter auto and light fields have been a detriment since launch.
We’re not asking for optimal, top tier changes. We’re talking basic, baseline functionality so that we can take these traits/skills/weps and not have them be detrimental.
And the suggestions Rev is ‘better’? There’s a myriad of awesome things about the Guard. We can go burning. We can now do range + CC. We can build bunker. We can be mobile medi burst. Our versatility has never been better. DH has turned around to be a large success among the Guardian community. I’m all too happy to admit I was wrong about the Spec.
Let’s keep the ball rolling, Karl and Co. Go back and fine tune those above problems, and the Guardian will really be in “a good spot” for a good long time.
That said I have been dabbling in Dragon Hunter, and it probably is the highest damaging burst class at the moment. I can down chieftain / svanir in under 10 seconds if I really try. And to an unsuspecting squishy, if you lay traps on a point, they can pretty much instantly die just by activating your traps. In fact, I once killed 4 people simultaneously when I set up 3 traps on the orb in spirit watch, immobilized them with lb 5, and pierced them with lb 2.
I think it would probably be sufficient to nerf Dragon Hunter’s burst damage by ~5-10%. The class doesn’t really need anything changed. It can be beaten if you simply know how to play against it (watch where you walk).
Part of me wonders if the most of the complaints come from those who have been JI’d with 5-trap drop. It’s really a cheese tactic that’s getting under the skin of a lot of players who don’t know how to properly mitigate or counter it. For those who do, it seems to be less than a problem; scrappers, Mesmer’s using F4, Ele’s invuln, etc. all provide easy mitigation to the trap drop. This also leaves the DH vulenrable until the cooldowns come back up.
I’d honestly be cool with a small baseline nerf to damage. I don’t want them touching trap mechanics anymore than they need to. I started off hating the DH, and conceptually I still think it’s lackluster, but after the tweaks and some hindsight I’d have to say it is massively more entertaining that I could have hoped for. The DH has come a long way from what may have been perceived as the worst specialization, to one that is viable.
Conversely, how about slightly modifying the damage or trap mechanics in PvP only, Anet? There’s no shame in separate stats for separate game modes.
The Trapper runes nerf really rustled my jimmies.
It’s not a direct nerf, but it really hampers my WvW build. Roaming trapper guard was a ton of fun when it was 3 second invis, and now it’s even less viable.
I don’t mind a little nerf. Nothing in here is too class breaking. The problem I have is more indicative with Guardians; the balance design of the class is so centered around being “in a good spot” that we’re all scared DH will be nerfed into uselessness in order to appease other classes and their roles. These balances appear to be geared around PvP, so I will come at it from that direction.
I ask Anet to keep in mind that the DH is a bit of an oddity. Unlike Druid or other specializations, the DH does not have a clear purpose. It’s a support class turned ranged class, with PBAoEs. I have come to really enjoy the class post HoT launch- but it is a messy, confused class.
The result of that is, to be viable, the DH becomes a one trick pony. Place all your traps down, and try to lure an enemy into them for a quick kill. Several stacked traps can down some squishy classes. This has led some people to think the class deals too much damage. The DH does not have the sustained combat capabilities of most, if any, other specs. What it does do, is ambush well.
However, a lot of classes like War and Ele can steam roll over the burst thanks to dmg soaking abilities (or just some basic knowledge of the DH’s trick). The result is a wide gap; squishies are gibbed with instant death, heavies roll right through them. Nerfing DH to appease the classes critical of the burst is a bad move, as it makes those heavies impossible to contend with in any competitive stance.
The bow is actually in a solid spot. The dmg-cast ratio on True Shot is fine. The root is less of a problem then people think; if anything it adds a dynamic of skill to the class as being rooted in the wrong spot means life or death. Of all the problems we might have with the DH, the bow is actually in a “good spot”.
Nerfing it would essentially kill the class. I honestly have come to really love DH in it’s own little way. A TS + additional trap nerfs would be the end of that.
(edited by anking.6245)
On an related topic of runes, will those new Necro Chilling/Shout runes be of any use to us? Anyone tried them yet?
If you want to roam, grab Zerker Armor w/ Trav runes and Zerk/Valk trinkets.
If you want to zerg lightly or in small groups, switch out either Trinkets or Armor with Soldier’s.
If you want to be a frontliner in a zerg, grab Soldier Armor w/ Hoelbrek Runes and something like Knight’s Trinkets.
Crazy to see how this thread has blown up!
It seems there’s a lot of good opinions here. I think now, after some distance, I am honestly just enviously that the Druid seems like a really cool, interesting dynamic for the Ranger whereas the Dragonhunter just feels… so out of place.
Like there’s no cohesion, appeal, or cool aesthetic too it. It is not the case, I am sure, but it feels like DH is a secondhand specialization compared to the awesome that appears to be the Druid. Maybe the Druid will be terrible in practice, but boy, does it look way more holistic than ‘Trap Guard’.
So, in light of the Druid live stream, what are your thoughts on the Guardian and by extension the Dragonhunter?
It seems the Druid will fill a lot of roles (tank, heal, condi clear) the Guardian was originally intended to, and it seems like it will perform those roles better (and will a hell of a lot more polish). I’m curious to see what other Guardians feel this way.
I think it’s extremely odd that we’ve been asking for improved shield skills and torch skills for some time, and both have found their way into the game…
But with other classes. The Rev’s shield skills function completely better than the Guards, and now the Warrior’s Torch skill provides what we’ve wanted since the dawn of the game.
Guardian power builds got a bit of a nerf, sadly. We lost several damage modifiers and were hit with a few silly nerfs like the ICD on Might of the Protector. The only hefty damage boosting trait we DID receive (Symbolic Avenger) got cut in half before we even got a chance to test it, and even still is hardly effective outside of PvE.
Once Anet inevitably deems burning too powerful and reduces its damage, Guardian will probably lose its competitive edge. Maybe then they’ll finally see how much of a “good place” we’re in.
This is a good assessment of the situation, really. Our lack of damage in PvE is mitigated in part by “Feel My Wrath!”- but how long before the choir of angry Non-Guards gets that nerfed as well?
But OP’s discussion was on power medi guard, and I agree that it’s become lackluster. I’ve switched gears entirely and gone bunker guardian- having the extra shout and running Trooper Runes with AH has been surprisingly effective.
The damage is terrible, but for some reason I feel like relation has become more effective and things die before I do. Perhaps its because I never gave it much attention, but as long as I have an ally nearby I can literally not name a time I’ve lost in a 2v2 no matter what the combination is.
First and foremost, Signet of Mercy does need a giant change. I cannot name the last time I had the skill on my bar for any reason. It’s useless in it’s current form.
Secondly, and it’s taken me a long time to accept, Anet will never give the Guardian a mobility boost. Our teleports are meant to close the gap in combat. They see the guardian being the “first in, last out” class in fights, and giving us 25% movement would conflict with the design philosophy of Guards.
That being said, because every class has access to some sort of passive boost, you find Guardians running Trav runes to accommodate. Having to stick with those runes really limits build diversity in WvW, which is a shame.
Personally, the solution I wish for would be for Anet to consider removing all classes 25% boosts. Passive or otherwise. But the uproar against that would be insane.
I’d like it if someone could grab a Condi build and use Expeditious Spirit to see how well fire damage can be stacked with spirit weapons- might be a bit more viable than previously.
The only problem is that it’s competing with Symbolic Avenger and Shattered Aegis; I would prefer either of those two in nearly every situation.
It’s probably my favorite addition to the guard in theory. But in practicality, it is holistically useless.
RF is far mare useful in WvW, given the three seconds invuln and recharging of virtues. A rooted, 4s cast time is worthless in zergs, small group, or solo, and the long CD invalidates the passive effect which is entirely and completely lackluster. Signet focused traits are also lacking in function.
FMW is going to have some great applications PvE wise due to its short cooldown and Shout-iness. It could even be practical in a zerg, if guards can chain their shouts together.
Currently, Signet of Courage has no place in the scheme of things that I can see. Part of the problem is that the guard’s “mitigation” comes largely through Shelter and RF. If you attempt to go Signets, you’re hampering yourself severely. With those skills, we are on par with other classes- without them, we’re far below.
SoC simply doesn’t provide enough utility to warrant any use. It is still, however, my new favorite skill. It’s a great concept.
(edited by anking.6245)
The nerfs are one thing, but I mirror a lot of concerns that the “guardian is in the right place” mentality has lead the class to stagnate in terms of power progress.
They may care about the class, but they surely don’t play it. Some of the most disheartening things have been seeing the livestreams, and watching the devs flat out forget the names, the mechanics, and the abilities that are central and core to the Guardian class.
Now, more than ever, the guardian community needs to be vocal and cooperative on the problems of the class. We should make sure to keep our builds, templates, and discussions in public channels so Guards can hopefully keep up in the meantime; and we need to press as vocally as possible for re-balancing if we get left in the dust.
Someone pointed out that these may functionally be like Necro marks; clearing condis, buffing, etc. I know the ‘traps’ part is throwing us all for a loop but it might just be thematic fluff, and not mechanically as useless as the current traps in-game.
I’m skeptical about this all too, but the real crux will come during the stream tomorrow when we can see it in play. It’s not as flashy as the Chronomancer, but if the damage and heals are powerful, it will make up for the lackluster special effects.
What type of build would you like to play?
Having to trait a weapon to fix it’s fundamental issues is the wrong way to approach it.
I’d be content if they approached it all.
Necro’s have something similar, with the daggers trait that gives 25% movement speed for dual wielding. Something like that could be better suited.
How bout instead of a 5% dmg boost, it allows us to use Sword 3 on the move?
For PvE, a Zerk guard can deal good DPS and still bring utilities to the table like Reflection, such as for high level Fractals (of course, I don’t know many guards who full zerk in Fractals). With the way dungeons work, it’s far better to deal damage sooner than having sustainable defenses- you don’t need to stack survivability if the boss is dead.
For PvP and WvW a Zerk guard can perform pretty well solo/small groups. If you went Zerks with a Triple Meditation build and lets say 1h crit thrown in, you’ve got great burst damage, blinds, burns, vuln, two blinks, basic condi cleansing, and med heals. Focus nukes can get some pretty ridiculous numbers too. If you chain the combo right you can pretty much instagib any class.
BUT! Is any of this particularly better than a zerk Warrior?
No. Warriors are ahead of use in every category except some niche moments in fractals and dungeons. To quote a recent post:
Bunker
Warrior > Guardian (Healling sig, perma-regen, high HP, 100% condi immune)
Damage
Warrior > Guardian (Hundred blades, eviscerate, killshot, perma-fury)
CC
Warrior > Guardian (3 hammer stuns, 2 mace stuns, 1 shield stun, cc utils)
Condi
Warrior > Guardian (bleed, cripple, blind, burn, torment, weakness, immo)
Healing/Support
Warrior > Guardian (perma-regen, banner buffs, shouts heal, AoE group rez)But don’t worry guys, you can still burst Courage and give everyone ONE block on a 90 second cooldown! That counts for something right? … Wait, blind condi does the same thing? … Crap, I guess you’re SOL.
But, frankly, I enjoy the guardian’s skill variety much more.
Guardians aren’t bad, warrior is just a better choice and more versatile.
I wonder, in which cases warrior is better choice?
Bunker
Warrior > Guardian (Healling sig, perma-regen, high HP, 100% condi immune)
Damage
Warrior > Guardian (Hundred blades, eviscerate, killshot, perma-fury)
CC
Warrior > Guardian (3 hammer stuns, 2 mace stuns, 1 shield stun, cc utils)
Condi
Warrior > Guardian (bleed, cripple, blind, burn, torment, weakness, immo)
Healing/Support
Warrior > Guardian (perma-regen, banner buffs, shouts heal, AoE group rez)But don’t worry guys, you can still burst Courage and give everyone ONE block on a 90 second cooldown! That counts for something right? … Wait, blind condi does the same thing? … Crap, I guess you’re SOL.
In the brackets you brought only warrior’s capabilities. It’s only a half of a picture. Where the guardian’s, so we can compare?
So, as I’m reading this I’m moving a bunch of my stuff over to my warrior, but here are some things guardians do provide:
Wall of Reflection, when traited, has a pretty good use to reset ratio (almost 1:3, 12 seconds up time on 32 CD). It blocks a huge number of ranged projectiles and stays on my hot bar for almost every single encounter in a Fractal.
Shield of the Avenger is very good as well, offering a similar 1:4 ratio (20 seconds of use on a 60 second CD, which starts after it has expired). It feels clunky sometimes and, in my experience, will block most projectiles (some slip through between the spirit weapon’s casting sequence).
Stand Your Ground is good, though it is situational. Save Yourself and Hold the Line are useful only for those running 0/0/30/30/10.
Too many Guardian abilities offer boons that just are not very useful. Protection and regeneration are nice, but they do not make a significant impact on fights.
You’re right about WoR. That’s about the only thing guards have.
“Well, we have Wall of Reflection! We need that for Fractals and some dungeon paths! See, were just as viable as warriors! Right guys? Right?”
Yeessssssssss.
Finally, I’ll be able to catch things without needed to run staff or Retreat.
THIS -> INSTANT BUY
The staff is still very useful in WvW, but now I don’t feel like I need to take it.
Oh yeah bro, exactly.
I’m sure some minmaxer is sperging over how we’re not optimized for full utility and how wonderful his build is and we’re wasting runes or some baloney- I just bought 6 runes a few hours ago and I’m never looking back, this is freaking awesome!
Even just running through town is so much more enjoyable than it used to be without having to shout all over the place. Sure, my build takes a pretty little hit, bit I’m loving the trade off of not ever having to worry about catching up/running away from as part of my build.
Yeessssssssss.
Finally, I’ll be able to catch things without needing to run staff or Retreat.
(edited by anking.6245)
Living story?
Too busy playing SNES and running on the gear treadmill.
Can’t wait for treadmill armor next. :\
Is there a decent DPS build using sword/x and gs for wvw?
Maybe someone else can provide the link, but there is a Sword/focus + GS build that relies on DPS and using blinds to stack vulnerability.
There are far more variants of a guardian for DPS, and I have yet to see an “instant-kill” build in PvP.
The biggest problem with a guardian is mobility. Anyone who’s decent can easily kite you and spam conditions to the point you are dead.
Pretty much this. You can run with a condition clearing build all you want; you go blow for blow for 30-40 seconds before they become too much to handle. It’s why burst guardian builds are becoming more prominent in WvW, imo.