Could you explain why you thought the game was more fun before this patch? Coming from a purely tournament perspective, the meta we saw before yesterday was absolute garbage. From what it was originally, the power of bunkers and portals was utilized by everybody. Fights were often 4v4+ and lasted entirely too long and really just turned into glorified button spamming. Contesting Foefire’s Graveyard and other mids took the majority of the match.
While other bugs got introduced, they aren’t as game breaking as Svanir glitching or block bug. There really wasn’t a need for high mobility or real strategy. In my opinion, the patch brought these types of things back in line, we’re potentially back to the high rotation, high communication, high coordination meta.
It’s a move in the right direction. At least we’re back to the old meta where fights are resolved and rotations are necessary.
Face it, the 4v4/5v5s that never ended were detrimental, especially when teams were taking advantage of several glitches that dragged fights on for longer than they really needed. Mobility is a large factor again. Keeping a point capped or neutral takes a lot more coordination when it comes to organized team vs. organized team.
We want GvG and HA not other arenas…they’re fine as they are, hot join like old random arenas, and tour like old team arenas. Time to put something more tasty on the table.
Honestly?
Get over the fact that GvG and HA aren’t coming to GW2.
Custom servers allows for third-party leagues to come into play, which equates to various and numerous ladders and rankings for teams to work towards. It could stimulate more interest considering there are a number of leagues waiting to start.
I have a hard time believing third-party leagues could make sPvP look sexy enough to attract crowds.. at least not with the currently lacking core features (modes, maps) and stale metagame..
Regardless of missing features or whatnot, the casual crowd likes rankings—and it’s easy enough to get into that they can be a part of the rankings. In any case, it would offer a reason for more people to start streaming and getting the game back out there if they are playing competitive teams more consistently.
Custom servers allows for third-party leagues to come into play, which equates to various and numerous ladders and rankings for teams to work towards. It could stimulate more interest considering there are a number of leagues waiting to start.
While somewhat true, this really isn’t a representation of how it is right now. PZ, who have the most QPs on the board lose regularly to various teams; and vice versa. There’s also at least two queues going at a time so there’s a good chance the two top teams won’t play each other. Every competitive team has most likely played against every other competitive team in all three maps at this point.
Like I said, I agree time has a part to play…but to say QPs are in majority part due to teams being able to play more is, in my opinion, inaccurate. Coming from experience, everyone with the higher number of QPs belongs to a team and have been competitive in the games. Yes QPs are inflated due to several reasons, but the people on the list do deserve to be on there in a large capacity.
I think you missed the last part.
>As it is, very few teams play paid tournaments. This allows QPs to give a fairly close approximation of a ladder. However, this shouldn’t be mistaken for a real ranking system, as it really is not.
Right now, the small number of teams gives a pretty close approximation. Certainly, all teams with significant amounts of QPs are skilled. However, it’s still just a leaderboard, not a ladder. Any rank system where you can’t go down in rank will favor those who play more.
Also, two tournament queues? When do you play? I generally only see one paid tournament going during our team’s normal playtimes (starting roughly 8-9 pm eastern time). Two is a busy day. From what I’ve heard, Asian times typically have no paid tournaments going.
8-9pm Eastern; I’m pretty sure we’ve played the least out of any team out there as well.
Just watch the different streams, pretty easy to determine when you see someone in paid on Foefire, and you get a pop.
Once again, I never said the QP list was a ladder or ranking system of any sort. I’m generally speaking to people who are discrediting anyone on the list. AFAIK mostly everyone on that list has played with/against everyone else, and most of the people speaking up and saying QPs are mostly a time issue and says nothing about player skill aren’t featured.
This is not a ‘ladder’ this is just showing us which teams invested enough time to ‘farm’ QP.
Real ladders would need a rating system.
Just curious, why do you think it’s simply a matter of investing time?
It’s not just time, but time is a large part of it. Examples as follow:
Example 1: Two teams are exactly equal in skill. Also, if they fight each other, the outcome is exactly 50/50. However, team A plays twice as much as team B. Team A has twice as many qualifier points, because they played more. If the rankings were based on skill, not time, A and B would be roughly equal in rank.
Example 2: Team A is the top team in the world. Team B is the second best. Team B will always, without fail, beat any team that is not A, but will always, without fail, lose to A. If A and B always end up playing at the same times, B won’t even rank on the leaderboard. A team that plays against worse teams can rank higher than a better team that happens to get matched against the best ones.
As it is, very few teams play paid tournaments. This allows QPs to give a fairly close approximation of a ladder. However, this shouldn’t be mistaken for a real ranking system, as it really is not.
While somewhat true, this really isn’t a representation of how it is right now. PZ, who have the most QPs on the board lose regularly to various teams; and vice versa. There’s also at least two queues going at a time so there’s a good chance the two top teams won’t play each other. Every competitive team has most likely played against every other competitive team in all three maps at this point.
Like I said, I agree time has a part to play…but to say QPs are in majority part due to teams being able to play more is, in my opinion, inaccurate. Coming from experience, everyone with the higher number of QPs belongs to a team and have been competitive in the games. Yes QPs are inflated due to several reasons, but the people on the list do deserve to be on there in a large capacity.
It’s a good start for Anet, and I commend them for trying, but frankly, paid tournaments just aren’t that popular yet and so these rankings don’t mean a lot. A couple of months from now however, it’ll be a different story most likely.
If the current teams continue to play as they have been, they’ll still have a considerable leg up on any other new teams. You can definitely see the difference between a team who understands each other over a team who has just gotten together.
At person above: You don’t lose points for losing. So Player A could be amazing, and win 6 QPs out of 7 tournaments.
Player B could be bad, and win 7 QPs out of 100 tournanments.
Player B is simply higher because of time invested.
However I think this is true with normal rating systems too anyway….you need play a lot to get high ratings as well, so there is always an element of time invested in any ratings/ladder system.
That wasn’t the question. I never stated QPs were a rating or ladder system. I asked why he thought gaining QPs is simply a matter of time.
While I do agree time has some to do with it, you can’t pin it all on duration played. Especially in NA where there’s a window for frequent queues.
This really shows how few teams are on NA paids… really need to merge pvp paids for NA and EU.
It actually doesn’t show anything about NA paids in regards to EU. There are certain playtimes and length of play that allows for an inflation of QPs. Not to downsize the achievements of anyone on the board, but all NA teams have lost to each other.
Personally, I think it’s just another design flaw (QPs) as it rewards heavily for time played and there are ways around hard matchups.
Using DD 4 times in a row is not burst. Backstab is burst.
Neither of you thought to dodge/heal/Mist Form/ whatever?
What did you do, stand there for the entire fight and let the Thief cast DD 4 times?
To be fair, letting “the Thief cast DD 4 times” isn’t the issue. It can be done instantly.
Yeah there are ways around taking the damage and minimizing it, but if it catches you off guard as a low HP pool build—you’re most likely going to go down.
If you get caught off guard as a low HP build you’re going to go down easy, no matter what the opponent was using.
Dancing Dagger is not instant, nor can it be done instantly. It has a cast time and animation travel time.
Part of playing well is knowing when to use your dodge/defensive skills. Negating DD is one of those times.
The cast time is 1/4th of a second. No sense in defending DD, it’s already going to get hit in the next patch. I play a thief, don’t be delusional.
Mesmers can put 25 on you pretty instantaneously. I dunno the mechanic but I see it done all the time. I agree the damage is out there, but it’s an explanation at least.
Currently you can break out of the ice block and remain invulnerable while maintaining cap presence and the ability to use skills. It’s especially noticeable when you’re playing against the teams who do run 3 bunkers and exploit it. I’ll stay away from naming names, but most of the players using it have denied doing so (and have eliminated recorded evidence). :P
Using DD 4 times in a row is not burst. Backstab is burst.
Neither of you thought to dodge/heal/Mist Form/ whatever?
What did you do, stand there for the entire fight and let the Thief cast DD 4 times?
To be fair, letting “the Thief cast DD 4 times” isn’t the issue. It can be done instantly.
Yeah there are ways around taking the damage and minimizing it, but if it catches you off guard as a low HP pool build—you’re most likely going to go down.
Honestly, I’d rather they fixed some of the more glaring issues with bunkering/portals and Svanir exploits before these.
I’ll agree the damage from Air is broken, as well as the stealth mechanics being suboptimal for the gameplay—but saying that it’s indefensible is an over-exaggeration. Yes, thieves do an incredible amount of burst with specific openers—but it’s already been said that it is being toned down. With that said, it’s still hard to bring certain professions down in a timely manner.
In my opinion, if appropriate changes to these runes/burst are made—and bunkers/portals aren’t brought in line, the game will be more of a cluster than it already is. I think anyone who plays at a high level will agree that the amount of 4v4 or 5v5 team fights lately have consumed way too much time in these matches. Looking back to weeks ago, it took a lot more team work and individual skill in having occasional large fights and many small 2v2 squirmishes. Mobility is pretty insignificant currently as bunkers can still hold off uneven numbers and portal can instantly traverse half the map. (/rant)
Having played with the parties involved here (mainly Prince/Seether and Payne), it really seems like a breakdown of communication in text that is causing this “drama”. It’s important to keep in mind that the grass always seems greener on the other side. Good thief players see and experience situations that good ele players don’t; and vice versa.
Cogbyrn, paid tournaments were in the blogpost highlighting the Halloween update on the 22nd. Days beforehand, the tournament portion of the blogpost was taken off with no announcement. Threads and posts asking about it were deleted by moderators.
There have also been several mentions about certain balance issues that have not come through yet either. I’m sure you’ll find them if you look.
Why were people who were asking about PvP in the Twitch Stream banned? It wasn’t as if they were trolling, the legitimate question askers were getting banned when asking about the missing Paid Tournaments feature on the recent Halloween blogpost as well as future PvP plans.
It’s one thing to ignore their questions during a stream that was meant to update users about upcoming events and the Halloween patch; it’s entirely another thing to ban them. This falls under the unprofessional category that’s been so evident with the moderating teams under ArenaNet.
I don’t know who you are. So going to go with you’re not important. Let me know when you’re done with the “you’re not on the competitve edge”. This game has no competitive edge. Just good players. And those “top teams on the competitive edge”, I’ve been playing against them for years in other games.
So keep this on necro. Plague signet is broken. Until it’s fixed to not copy and actually transfer conditions, it’s a conditon dump for the necro. It’s not that great. It doesn’t nullify anything.
Corrupt Boon is single target and really only useful vs guardians when trying to quickly take him out 2v1.
Dagger offhand is mediocre. Not as useful as Focus (as focus gives you a free corrupt boon and good lifeforce generation). You don’t actually remove 3 conditions. You remove 1 at at time per person it bounces to. So if no one else is in range, you’re only going to get one removal. Weakness is really only good vs low crit classes, which are typically Solider Amulet tank classes.
And I’m basing this on the replacement of the guardian because every single high end team that has been running with a necro HAS been replacing them with a guardian. You can stop theory crafting. What I’m saying isn’t theory. It’s tested. I have over tourny 120 games on my necro. The class falls short in every area compared to others and is not worth bringing.
The people who bring it just want to be different. Like the kids who always say “What’s the most underpowered class? I want to play that one”.
Maybe because you don’t play any good teams, and judging by your posts—you’re terrible. Everything you’ve said is irrelevant, and you’re posting outdated information. 120 tournament games is puppy water.
You can stop mentioning top teams. I’ve played against them. Every time they want to use a necro, they lose. If they swap it out, we go 50/50. It’s a game changer using the class, and not in their favor. And yes, they typically replace their guardian for a necro.
The only person who’s mentioned a team name in this thread is you. And it isn’t even a top team. DWi doesn’t sync with other teams, nor are they anywhere near the competitive edge; you have no room to talk.
The evaluations about Necro here miss on the important fact that Plague Signet nullifies any other condi opponent while Epidemic, in conjunction with Corrupt Boons, Scepter and Dagger skills, enables for extremely easy mass condi spread and application.
Once again, you’re basing everything on the fact that teams are entirely replacing their Guardian for a Necro—which is completely false.
Control aside, there’s no profession that nullifies the power of a bunker Guardian right now—Necro or no Necro.
Considering my pug team of DWi members has not lost yet to a top end team with a necro, gonna go ahead and say necros are useless.
rofl jokestime
The moment they swap him out for a guardian, the fights are infinitely harder.
You’re sacrificing group stability, group condition removal, retaliation, and control for…..blinds? Boon removal? Your focus targets anyways are DPS then support. Not to mention a mesmer has aoe boon AND condition removal AND portal.
Necros are awful. Teams playing with them just want to be different. Like thieves wanting to use s/d. Mediocre at best. They work in free tournies because you play pug teams 99% of the time.
First off, who says you’d completely replace a Guardian with a Necro. Posters were saying that Necros are counters, not that they were better at bunker. Most of the top teams run a Necro, you have no clue what you’re talking about.
Second, Necros are easily the best counter to Guardians right now. That being said, you’re still going to need to stack numbers to reliable down one. Corrupt Boons is extremely effective, especially when they put any form of Protection, Regeneration, or Stability up.
Third, Necros are easily the strongest condition profession in the game. Couple Scepter/Dagger with Epidemic and you have extreme AoE output.
Are Guardians counterable? Yes. Do they need adjustments? Definitely. Bunkers are defining the meta right now, the amount of 4v4 fights and team stacking caused by them are pretty detrimental to strategy and variety in team strategy in general. There’s almost no need to run high mobility with Guardian Bunkers and Portal.
Another one of these posts, it definitely deserved its own thread. Why worry about learning to play better when its easier to just complain for changes?
Surprisingly, threads like these are able to float around untouched while real threads asking for discussion on real issues get deleted without prior notice.
The recent shift to bunker heavy builds/strategy lowers the skill-cap of the game pretty significantly. Looking back to around two weeks ago, the emphasis was still on heavy roaming and knowing when to rotate your team around—there was a lot more communication and map control (off of cap points) needed. Now, with some bugs and bunkering up—teams can keep a point captured or neutralized for an extremely lengthy amount of time; it allows for a team to continuously keep coming back into the fight and contesting points.
Add that to the utility of Mesmer portal and the necessity and importance of roaming has become extremely limited. Faster and more mobile professions are hit hard by this as the advantage of being able to back-cap and/or move off of points to support your team elsewhere are countered hard.
Personally, I think that the favoring of portal and bunkers is detrimental to the meta. Doesn’t take much skill and recognition to roam anymore as the bulk of a team can pop through a portal and navigate through half the map in an instant, while other points are still solidly safe from being neutralized because of bunkers who can survive vs. multiples reliably.
Seriously disappointing, especially when I go away for a couple of days and I hear reports of sPvP and various PvP communities/tools “dying”. Can’t say I’m too surprised considering there were legit and organized teams who were already saying there was no reason to play tournaments within a month of release.
On a sidenote: I have no problems with someone using video material from my stream, but you used it without even asking me or gaining my permission. I do appreciate that you atleast linked my twitch account. I am going to ask you to add my youtube to your description as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/TeamTempestGaming
Thanks for the game!
It’s a public domain, he doesn’t need your permission. If you don’t want people using your videos, don’t upload them to a public area.
Wouldn’t say this thread is a negative/frustration thread. It’s turning into one perhaps. Most people here just want some reassurance or some semblance of a timeline or show of progress.
Wasn’t necessarily two thieves that lost you the game. You guys required more treb control than that, and not running a Mesmer on your treb severely handicaps you at this point in time. It was most likely a combination of the lack of mobility along with trebuchet control.
Yeh sorry we didn’t know about the thread till just now, feel free to ask away, we also answer questions on the twitch chat between matches, thanks for tuning in if you guys do. Demo0 we’re getting better everyday thats why we practice as much as we can.
… really need to merge pvp paids for NA and EU.
