He shouldnt have a job. I cant feel sorry for him. I’m done with GW2 if he is at the wheel of class design and gives excuses like this. He could have come to us days before hand and discussed his vision and time table for the class, not pray we didnt notice and come only when he was called out.
Thats basically his MO, stealth things in (like our short bow nerf) and then not own up to them until the community calls him out on it.
All I read from this was
“My job is hard”.
You came on to calm us down after you stealth nerfed our class, pointing to a near by patch. That patch had nothing of substance in it. The class is still terrible, GS is still not a viable weapon even with the dps increase to one skill. Spirits still get one shot. Longbow is despite what you seem to think, a terrible skill (Warrior Rifle anyone?!).
I’m really appalled you dont seem to get your own game.
Well thats it for me and this game. After trying 3 classes and not being smart enough to just pick Warrior, I can see the Game Producers dont have any idea how to balance a game.
Jesus I’m glad I gave up on the ranger class.
Everyone should play Warriors, what else do you want? Better support, tank and damage. Better at ranged weapons.
What is ridiculous is its been like a month, and this liar has come twice to the forums to make us feel better and what happened? Crappy Spirits will still get one shot in dungeons. GG
Great game you guys are managing to destroy. I never though I would consider world of pandas but they seem to at least not take a month to delivery nothing in their patches and them limp back into forums when called out on it.
Took a couple of days to get debugging in on this. It is in fact a 40ms difference which equates to about 7% less damage when spamming 1. We made this change because it was creating some animation bugs to leave it where it was. It was also encouraging just spamming 1 which isn’t the most fun gameplay. If our data shows shortly that shortbow is now not effective we can certainly address that, but would do so by improving other skills on that weapon rather than by reintroducing the spam on 1 and the bugs that it was creating.
Something I find funny:
“It was also encouraging just spamming 1 which isn’t the most fun gameplay.”
Who dictates fun factor? I can tell you feeling kittened compared to a warrior with a rifle is certainly not very fun, and this change you implemented magnifies our differences more so.
“If our data shows shortly that shortbow is now not effective we can certainly address that, but would do so by improving other skills on that weapon rather than by reintroducing the spam on 1 and the bugs that it was creating.”
I understand that your proposing better game design, but you are willing to hurt us and analyze how hurt we are before offering improvements? The rangers have seen no real work since release and given it took 2 days to confirm what change actually took place, how long would it take for our other skills to be improved. Lets take a look at the current weapon line up rangers have:
Great Sword. No one uses this since beta test 2/3 where it was nerfed into nothingness. Its defensive nature is at odds with the fact that its melee and we can simply use ranged weapons to deal more dps from ranged (which is safer). Too little damage for the enhanced risk of being melee.
Sword. In general very meh; hard to build a strategy around it, used for snaring and keeping targets snared, but thats something rangers are very good at outside this weapon.
Longbow: Terrible attack speed, animations, and the kit in general. Damage is sub par to Warrior Rifle, never seen outside of WvW and even in WvW we only use it due to the traited 1500 range. Any ranger who has seen Engineer grenade spaming at 1500 range would gladly swap classes im sure.
SB: Every ability outside 1 does next to no damage. One relies on the pets hitting the target, which may as well never happen in PvP given our pets can barely keep up with mobile foes, let alone landing one of their painfully slow attacks or F2s.
Pets in General: Buggy, Slow, Ineffective in PvP and WvW. This is our unique mechanic, and outside tank and spank Pve they are pretty useless. Dungeons they get one shotted (even ‘tank’ pets).
So you made a change to a class that has one redeeming quality (our SB ‘1’ attack) and are now going to remain patient to see the fallout to determine next steps?
Let me ask this; wouldnt it have been a better decision as a game designer to come in here and make a post like
“Hey guys, we have identified some issues with SB #1, and are going to make changes to it, and wanted your opionion about Short Bow and what its lacking given that the dps on the auto attack might be scaled back a bit”. Then after a polite discourse and idea exchange, you would be empowered more and the players would be more content?
NOPE! THATS NOT WHAT YOU DID! Instead you ‘fixed an animation bug’ that no ranger I have talked to has ever noticed to disguise what would be an unpopular nerf to the class, and now that we basically are a terrible kitten class you are going to tell us you might review some data, which will spring the possibility for you to formulate a counter balance to the rest of our weak weapon?
If this is par the course for how you plan to introduce game changes, I may be looking elsewhere to spend my time.
srly? Rifle/bow warr? thats wrong… have nothing against ranged warrs.. but warrior should fight face 2 face.. smell the opponent blood… want range combat go play ranger or something… thats ma 2 cents… sry 4 ma bad english*
Why play ranger? Warriors are better at rangers at ranged damage.
Warrior Rifle > Ranger SB
Kill Shot lets you finish off targets, where as our pets cannot even hit someone who is moving due to their painfully slow animations.
Warrior Rifle is currently the strongest ranged weapon in the game by leagues.
The effect of 7% less attacks has a larger impact than 7% less damage, considering you cannot keep up the amount of stacks you could earlier and the loss of a stack (say 9 to
is more than a 7% damage decrease for condition builds.
This post really for me solidifies its not worth my time and effort anymore to work on the ranger. Worked over the past two weeks to get one from 1 to 74 after realizing my guardian is nothing more than a buff bot for the majority of WvW due to no ranged. Guess I’ll try Warrior Rifle since warriors get everything,
After playing a Guardian and a Ranger to 80 but really not digging either in WvW I’m looking for the following.
1) Ability to toss out lots of AoE damage, Conditions and Control, from a comfortable range
2) Strategic Complexity
3) Ability to Skirmish when needed. I.E I dont want my #1 to define me to the exclusivity of being able to one on one someone if I have to.
That said it seems the main contenders are Well/Mark Necros with the ability to proliferate conditions and control areas, and Engineers with their long range AoE.
What are your experiences/preferences?
To be honest, they could fix the issue tomorrow, because of this though I have realized Ranger is a waste of time. Warrior ranged is tons better for WvW.
Have the devs commented if they plan to do anything with crossfire?
in Ranger
Posted by: faytte.1057
Their plan is “play a warrior”.
In all seriousness, its been 2 days since it was gonna get looked at without any comments from devs. Along with all our other bugs, I consider this class more or less dead. Its easy mode PvE but thats about it.
Agreed. I just started my rifle warrior. I could not be having more fun. This was basically the class the ranger wishes it was.
RNG based systems are the reason no one wanted to play TERA.
Its a terrible model.
The issue is the ranger has no other good weapon to fall back to and the speed of the SB #1 is the reason a variety of builds work on it. Slowing down the attack has a very large impact on the damage of bleed builds as you can no longer maintain nearly as many bleeds are before, especially during QZ.
If we had other viable weapons, it would not be as big of an issue.
Nerf or not, I love my Ranger. If you rage quit over this, you’re taking the game way to serious.
I think people being angry over a ninja nerf concealed as a bug fix for a bug no one has ever heard of followed by a general period of non communication is sufficient grounds to get kitten ANET is setting a tone for our relationship with them, and its bad.
Are you seriously implying that ANYBODY would recognize a 0.04 second animation glitch?
Are you implying that a dev in testing would not notice a nearly .4 reduction in the attack speed as a result of the fix to the ‘animation bug’ ?
Im not quiting the game, but im quiting the class. Some classes are simply balanced far better. Warrirors beat us at ranged, melee, support and survivability. Its going to take a set of patches to pets, our weapons and our utilities (spirits) to bring us up to speed, and thats gonna take a long time. Why would I have less fun trying to compare with warriors in WvW who are kill shotting for over 15K damage with a kitten sb or lb? Our Melee is trash. Outside of PvE, our pets are mostly useless since they cant hit moving targets.
Nerf or not, I love my Ranger. If you rage quit over this, you’re taking the game way to serious.
I think people being angry over a ninja nerf concealed as a bug fix for a bug no one has ever heard of followed by a general period of non communication is sufficient grounds to get kitten ANET is setting a tone for our relationship with them, and its bad.
Two days to test something the ranger community proved in two hours.
Thats idiotic reasoning. The reason botters play rangers is cause of pets. The reason they use shortbow is our other weapons are TERRIBLE.
People dont consider that the bleeds are
A) 3 seconds bleeds, meaning without a torrent of arrows, they fall off very quickly
B) have a positioning requirement
Warrior Rifle by contrast has 6 second bleeds without a positioning requirement and their 2-4 abilities are fantastic dps
When a warrior gets melee’s the same weapon allows him to knock back, or he can go to his amazing melee dps weapons (ranger melee weapons are a joke that are mostly defensive and do less dps than SB. Effectively why switch to them if you can just try to kite with your SB?)
If you read ANETs description of ranger from their wiki, you will see that THEIR definition of ranger is actually someone that excels at ranged damage.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger
“Rangers are proficient with the bow. They rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature to slay their targets. Their loyal pets, which rangers tame and train, distract enemies while the rangers strike safely from a distance. As an adventurer profession, rangers wear medium armor.”
First thing mentioned is our bow proficiency. No mention of melee or our ability to survive in the wild, but they do make mention of slaying enemies from afar.
Thats from ANET, not from me.
And if we are not meant to excel at ranged damage, then we are even worse off than I thought, cause our melee is freaking terrible compared to other classes.
You mean once they do things they have never said they were gonna do?
If I cant compare things in a vacuum, you cant compare things to fiction.
As it is now our weapons are strictly inferior to warrior counter points. Any ranger worth their salt would give up SB in a second for Rifle, even pre nerf SB. Their melee is far better than ours. Their support skills (shouts/banners) are far better than ours (spirits that get one shotted and dont do much outside our elite). They have more survivaibility out of the gate with much more hp and armor, and unlike us they can burst damage.
Thats the reality today and ANET chose to nerf us more NOW. They did not wait to make these improvements you hope they might make and then nerf us after seeing how the dust settles, they chose instead to make a bad class even worse.
One Nerf, to our best damaging ability, to our only good weapon for DPS does ruin our class.
Our Melee weapons do terrible damag.e
Longbow does terrible damage.
I’m not comparing these in a vaccum to other ranger powers, but to other classes. If you think SB auto attack was bad, have you seen rifle auto attack? While it does its physical damage slower, it has a 6 second bleed without position requirements, and its 2-3 abilities are fantastic for dps. And of course anyone in their right minds would trade pets for adrenaline and kill shot.
Nothing indicates he did not look into it, make a determination and then simply chose to not post about it.
This is a new game, and they do not yet a reputation with their player base. if Ghostcrawler (whom I dislike by the by) posted he would get back to players about something, I would expect he would because he has a tradition of doing so. Jon Peters does not.
Be interesting to see how many people would trade their Ranger for another class this second.
Real marksmen in GW2 are Warriors, not Rangers.
I’d trade my SB even pre nerf + our pets for a Warrior Rifle and Adrenaline any day of the week.
Verdict is, needs more looking…How hard would it be just to undo the changes until they can investigate the full impact of the animation tweak?
Guess ill see you on the warrior’s forum complaining when they get a nerf then. The SB needed a nerf and it got one how are so many people surprised by this. If all it takes is one nerf for you to stop playing a profession then it more likely your just a FOTM player and was going to change professions soon enough
If SB needed a nerf, Warrior Rifle needs an insane nerf. All the SB damage is from its auto attack, and the warrior rifle is actually very competitive with it. Harder to dodge projectile, double duration bleed without a positioning requirement, and your 2-3 skills are fantastic damage dealers. SB has no damage dealing outside its auto attack.
.040 additional seconds to attack is hardly noticeable. I don’t see why everyone is whining and crying that it was some huge nerf. All it did was sync the attack to the sound/animation so it wouldn’t be bugged. The animation and sounds were triggering at the correct time, and the attack was going faster than it should have.
Except it wasnt that. If you actually test it in game like lots of rangers are doing now compared to videos pre patch you can see that the actual changes are actually far more significant, especially noticeable under the effects of QZ. There are a zillion posts about this, go do some research. The issue isnt the change, its that the change had a MUCH larger effect than what was advertised.
Edited main post. I’m going to stage something of a soft protest. Others are welcome to join or not. Our issues are too great and communication too thin for me to really put much effort into playing this class as my long term. I just hit 80 yesterday after already rerolling from a Guardian (no ranged weapon in WvW=very boring) and a Necro (terribly balanced class). It seems I should have done what all my friends did and just gone Warrior.
I’m already levelling a warrior! I think the game should be called now Warriors Wars 2.
Nice one!
NO IDEA. I think if they allowed rangers and warriors right now the ability to swap their mains you would see very few rangers left in the game.
You must be a sadist if your main is a ranger. Then again it does not sound like you are pvping to see how poorly designed the pets are.
No idea. We were told last night they would look at it, and then its been crickets.
Um its been one day.
On the other hand this issue underlines major Ranger issues that have gone unresponded to. Basically the rangers only saving grace was at this point SB, and now that its gone, the entire pathetic class is bubbling up to players eyes.
I’m trying to understand where ANET has placed us cause it does not make sense.
Ranged Damage: Warriors win here. Warrior Rifle handily beats our options. Kill Shot brings insane burst damage that we cant even touch.
Melee Damage: Not even a comparison, our melee is some of the weakest in GW2.
Support Skills: Our spirits get one shotted and have been nerfed. Warrior Shouts and Banners are considered top tier for support.
Survival: Warriors have built in advantages here with more raw health and armor over Ranger.
Pets, whom miss 70% of their attacks on moving targets, do not even begin to bridge these issues.
EDIT: If we dont get a response by midnight tonight, I’m going to shelve my ranger. I hope others join me in this. Its widely known rangers were a rather ignored class in GW1 and it seems the same philosophy is being used here in GW2.
(edited by faytte.1057)
Wow..moved to the ranger forum means its a fat chance in hell this will get responded to now.
Wonder if the devs are ever gonna respond to this..
Botters use Rangers cause of a perma pet and search and rescue
They use SB cause its the best weapon from our mediocre list of kitten.
Issue is that other Sb skills are actually damage decreases so they are only used when needed. Thats not the fault of SB auto attack, its the fault of the rest of the SB suite of skills just doing poor damage and our other ranged option (LB) just sucking.
LOL rangers complaining about there auto attack being longer.. and stacks not as high?! Seriously in PvP you guys have the most outright troll auto attack there is.. Just stand slight to side and back and stack the kitten out of bleeds… I wish they would nerf how fast you stack bleeds to be honest.. b/c a ranger can stay at a distance and bleed me but once my condition removals are gone I am toast.
Warrior Rifle auto attack stacks bleeds better.
Ontop of that it does better burst damage and has a knock back within one skill.
For DPS in dungeons i do SB + axe/warhorn but lets be clear
I use axe/warhorn cause of the warhorn. The only thing axe gives me is the 2 at point blank to stack some bleeds. Its 1 is weaker than a traited (arrow piercing) sb or lb and some good positioning.
Ideally I would use maybe a sword or a gs, but both are trash weapons that do little damage.
I just want to put this to all those people talking about ranger weapon damage being far below that of other professions:
Your pet makes up more than the difference, other professions do not have a constant additional damage from their f1 skill, the lower damage from weapons is to compensate for this, and rightly so.
If you follow the plight of Rangers you will see that pets are very finiky. Especially their activate-able skill (F2). All pets have to stop moving in order to cast their move and therefore miss the majority of the time rendering their “utiliy” nearly useless.
Pets also run at default speed meaning simply moving will 100% negate their damage. Combined with the fact they stop moving to attack means the damage you get from pets is marginal at best.
Exactly what he said. In a game as mobile as this, our pets were designed for a game like WoW which is tank/spank. Our pets cant move and attack effectively, meaning most of the time they are just pretty decorations.
I for one never once noticed any bugs with the animation speed. Asking all my ranger friends, neither did they. Did ANYONE notice an animation bug?
So you run in a PvE build that would never exists in PvP or in dungeons, utilizing one of our weakest weapons, so your ok with the SB nerf. Kk.
^ What Arintal said.
Warrior: Better Ranged Damage, Survivability, Significantly better Melee damage (ours is a joke at best), better unique mechanic, better support skills.
What did I miss?
I feel that i would cheat my ranger if i do another char. I’m the kind of person that clear everything with a character before starting another. I just can’t understand that the way of correcting a bug is to downgrade DPS. Doesn’t make sense to me, so i’m pretty sure (i hope), they will do something about this!
Like they did with Rangers in GW1? Hah.
Rangers: “Short bow is our only good weapon.”
ArenaNet: Nerfs short bow.
More or less.
LB Damage is pathetic and gets terrible within certain ranges (TERRIBLE)
GS does terrible damage
Sword does terrible damage
Axe is relatively meh, mostly its a just fun, not terribly effective. Only reason we use it is so we can warhorn on our offhand.
Our offhands are nice, but with terrible main hands, meh.
Any ranger would in 2 seconds trade our shortbow for ranger rifle. It does more damage, even at its slower right of fire. About 10% more damage but a bleed thats TWICE as long without any positioning requirements what so ever. And its 2-4 skills are far more useful for damage and has a knock back.
Devs posted they would look into it last evening. No updates yet.
“I’ll take a look on live right now!”
Sorry to spam but can we get an update this morning? Saying you would take a look right now kind of got my hopes up we would at least get a status last night…