Showing Posts For hellfish.6740:
Okay im getting sick of people saying Thieves are OP. … *If people knew how to face a thief everything would be okay, but they dont. *
For the topic, I hate to address anything with thieves until the culling / rendering situation is handled.
What I can’t stand though is the argument I just quoted. Why is it always the defense of the strong class that other folks just don’t know the secret to beating them. Are we to believe the manual on how to kill said OP class wasn’t handed out with the rest of them? People don’t seem to have much trouble figuring out everyone else, so what is it that makes this particular class so difficult to understand?
If it’s blatantly more difficult to “solve” one class than the others, does that not basically prove there is a balance issue?
I’m surprised you didn’t quote the best part of his post.
Thieves are meant to be unbeatable 1v1.
The thief in GW2 is the most overpowered class in any MMO ever. The reason they implemented a class like the thief in this otherwise brilliantly thought out game must be that it allows people with zero hand eye coordination or any other computer related skills to compete with players who have actual skill. Playing a thief you can become victorious by smashing your fist at the keyboard and that’s what 99% of the thieves out there seems to be doing. There is nothing else to it. The “skilled” ones throw in steal in the beginning of the fight. The close to perma stealth ability the class has allows it to escape every single fight without ever fearing death which in Anet’s eyes is balanced since it has little impact on sPvP. SPvP is all Anet cares about because they have a dream that GW2 will become a huge successful e-sport. I’m guessing they haven’t even thought about the impact this has on WvW.
I challenge anyone to use a subpar spec for D/D ele against my 3 button warrior and you will lose!111!!!
Tell us something we don’t know. As for fighting noobs, if you are skilled at D/D ele, you will very rarely if ever lose a 1v1 fight. Warriors are one my favorite to fight because of how easy to kite they are.
So D/D elementalists should be pidgeon holed into a bunker spec while other classes can enjoy a variety of play styles? Why do we even have fire and air traits then? You make no sense.
A lot of the vocal people on this forum are just trying to stroke their egos. If they say eles are fine that must mean they have l33t skillz compared to those saying eles are not. At least that’s the logic in their teen angst ridden heads.
The people who say D/D is fine are with 100% certainty bunker elems (30 water/30 arcane). They are also for the most part fighting noobs. I’ll challenge anyone in this thread to go a glass cannon build and try to beat my warrior. I will murder you a hundred times out of a hundred.
There. I said it.
Have you tried playing a thief?
Broke my old record today http://i47.tinypic.com/evck6g.jpg
The more I play the more I keep going back to full DPS builds in WvW. My current build is 20/30/0/0/20 with berserker armor/weapon, valk trinkets, teleport/arcane power/mist form and switching to d/d if I’m solo or in a small group. It’s harder to play than other specs, but way more fun and rewarding imo. Doing 2-3k hits with meteor in safer builds just seems pointless in many situations.
What an absolutely useless server Far Shiverpeaks has become. Sunday night and I’m guessing about ten people are active in all of the four BGs. If anyone is considering transferring to this server save yourself the headache and don’t.
Only 3 days left until I can get away from here…
As someone who recently left ruin I’ll say they are as bad as everyone thinks they are. I don’t know much about the average player obviously, but the bigger part of the leadership is so horrible in the strategic part of the game it was nothing short of embarrassing at times. Man, I have some funny stories of this craptastic guild. that I’ll treasure years from now.
I’ll definitely miss the 5-10 minute speeches on TS explaining why ruin is the best guild in the world. They were hilarious.
I don’t see why you would choose 30 Fire over 30 Arcane; I’ve tested [Pyromancer’s Puissance] and even with +50% boon duration I only got to 5-7 stacks of Might. If I would even swap out of Fire I’m down to zero stacks of Might before I can swap back. With [Evasive Arcana] I could cast a Lava Font next to me every 30 seconds and do two dodge rolls for 6 stacks of Might not only for me but also for everyone around me; in a siege or siege defend situation that sounds far more powerful to me. Even if [Evasive Arcana] will be fixed in the next patch you still get 3 stacks and again 6 stacks if you don’t swapping out of Fire. If you have a friendly Engineer with a Bomb Kit next to you you could even get up to 9 stacks without ever swapping out of Fire or “wasting” a Lava Font.
Btw: [Grounded] doesn’t work with Pushback or Knockback, so the only staff skill it would work with is Air #5, and it’s a grandmaster trait now.
As I said I go fire to get permanent +power, not because of the awesome traits. The reason for this is that most of the time you’ll be running around and bump into the enemy without having time to build your might stacks.
both light armor wearing casters
So? Are you saying light armor classes should be free kills for thieves or what?
if you wish to over simplify things, then yes. scissors are the hard counter to paper, but paper is the hard counter to rock. that’s just how it works.
The only MMO that had r/p/s was DAoC. It was a stupid idea back then and it’s still a stupid idea today. Name one other MMO that had this philosophy?
first off, i said RPG. you said MMO. what you’re dealing with is an MMORPG. so a larger scale RPG.
SWTOR started out with that exact same dynamic, but people whined for nerfs until that was changed. i didn’t get in on the ground floor of WoW, but i’m willing to bet that the same thing holds true there as well. D&D also has the same dynamic. it’s how a balanced party is created. the holy trinity (tank/dps/heal) which has been altered here to “control, damage, support” revolves around that. though, “defense, damage, support” might be a better way of looking at it.
a class can build for damage, they can build for defense, or they can build for support. 3 roles, the paper, scissors, rock motif still applies. burst damage thieves just have a different way of doing their damage. they’re still “scissors” they still are the hard counter to “paper”, and are still countered by “rock”. if you’re paper, and tired of being killed by scissors, play rock. you don’t even need to make a seperate character to do so. you can alter your traits and gear on the same character, and will find a whole new perspective on the situation. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, then expect to be killed by scissors more often than not. if you’re paper, and wish to remain paper, but wish to beat scissors more often than not, you have unrealistic expectations. especially considering you are already the hard counter to rock. you now wish to be one role’s weakness, and on even ground with the other two. that would give you an unfair advantage.
I didn’t play SWTOR so you might be right about that. WoW on the other hand had at no time anything like that. D&D didn’t have any PvP as far as I remember so not sure what you’re saying here.
You make very little sense next. So let me get this straight. When a thief goes burst he’s scissor, but when an elem goes burst he’s paper. Therefor thieves will kill elems. Now elems can go rock (bunker) and stand a chance against scissor thieves. However thieves can ALSO go rock…
We have thieves: Scissors and rock.
We have elems: Paper and rock.
Except in GW2 paper doesn’t beat rock…
So can my elementalist be scissor too? And can you have thieves be downgraded to paper status that can’t beat scissors or rock? If that’s what you’re suggesting I’m in full agreeance with you.
I suspect you were smoking something when you wrote that post however, feel free to pass it along…
Can you show us those builds? Because I wasn’t able to come up with a build that deals significantly more damage than a x/x/x/30/30 one
I change build almost every day, and that’s not counting switching weapons, but here is the build I run at the moment. I wear all berserker clothing and valkyrie jewellry for the added vit. I use a crit/critdmg staff with sigil of blood until I’ve gotten 25 kills. Then I switch to a new same stats staff, but with a sigil of battle (%dmg works good too)
http://www.gw2builds.org/create/bwe_1/elementalist#0.0-2.11.2.12.2-30.20.0.0.20-7.11.12.5.3.6.5
Fire is mostly useless for the way I do my bursts, but I do it mostly for the +pow anyway. The 10% dmg is nice, but the cooldown reduction is nicer (meteor shower)
Air: Grounded is nice, arcane lightning is decent.
No surprises in arcane.. Both traits are a must.
For skill slots, teleport is just way to handy in certains situations. It’s often the difference between being able to catch the fleeing player or not getting him, or your ticket to getting away/not getting away. I sometimes skip it tho and go for arcane blast instead, especially in keep defenses. An extra insta 3-4k is always useful. Arcane power and mist form are a must.
Rotation goes something like: erruption, icespike (and maybe frozen ground if you feel like it) followed by arcane power, meteor shower, lava font, static field, erruption again. A lot of newbs attacking your keep won’t start realizing something is happening until meteors starts to rain and since they can often crit for 7k, two of those could kill a classes even if the initial erruption/icespike missed.
And don’t forget tornado. It’s much better in defense gear/build but still works good in the right circumstances. I spotted a mesmer portal inside garrison some time ago, on a ledge facing the water side. I sent about 20 of them tumbling down the cliff once they decided to enter the portal. It’s one of those times you realize that the spell you thought sucked so hard really is totally awesome. Narrow hallways with lots of culling is great too.
Feel free to criticize my build btw. I’m a big boy and I probably won’t run this exact one tomorrow anyway.
PvE has been covered, but I thought I’d should mention sPvP and WvW as well if you ever get tired of running dungeons. Don’t go staff in sPvP at all, period. And don’t use heavy arcane/water in WvW (like suggested in PvE) because you’ll have a horrible time without being able to kill anything. Glass cannon (i.e. 20 arcane, 30 or 20 fire, 30 or 20 air) is where you’ll be useful even though you’ll sometimes curse when you get targeted by a thief.
I’m not clueless at all, you’re apparently one of those who hops in, posts something stupid, without reading the rest of the post. Did I mention anything about your survival will that? NOPE! just your raw damage output. Also, since Mistform is apparently your only viable defense, as we all know popping Arcane shield when you see the thief coming and being able to block all 3 of his burst hits and damaging him isn’t viable AT ALL.
Glass canon v Glass canon, winner is whoever gets the hits off first, STEALTH ADDS TOO MUCH SURVIAVABILTY TO this equation, thus it’s broken.
Bunker v Bunker, 10 mins later someone gets bored and leaves.
Bunker v Glass Canon, if you are the bunker and you lose, it’s your own fault.
So once again, THE DAMAGE IS FINE AND ON PAR WITH OTHER BURST CLASSES, THE STEALTH MECHANIC JUST ADDS TOO MUCH SURVIVAL WITH HOW IT IS RIGHT NOW.
No, I read your post, but was in a hurry so it didn’t come out as I’d hoped. I apologize.
Elems burst doesn’t come close to a thief’s. In raw numbers elems can do pretty good dmg on newbies who don’t understand what a big spike above their head is going to do in a few seconds, but in reality the long cool downs on both skills and attunements makes the comparison silly. The only class I play nowadays in sPvP is a thief considering it’s the most OP class in an MMO ever. I can kill most people whithout using stealth or anything that resembles skill. If you want to duel me with a glass cannon elem I promise you I won’t use stealth. I also promise you’ll be murdered.
As for arcane shield ofc it’s viable, but we only get three skills to pick from. Mist form is way better in general unless you happen to be 1v1, which for the most part you’re not. Going both is an option, but then again so is going all invaders gear, so I don’t even understand your point.
Stealth is a huge problem, but so is thief sustained and burst dps.
people also tend to be ignorant of how class dynamics work as well. they tend to think that every class should have an equal chance of beating every class, like in a FPS. however, in all RPG’s, it works like paper/scissors/rock. only, it’s light armor/medium armor/heavy armor, or in some instances casters/physical damage/defense. 1 is designed to beat 3, 2 is designed to beat 1, 3 is designed to beat 2. people don’t understand this and think that 1, 2, and 3 should be designed to beat everyone. they don’t understand that while classes have strengths, they also have weaknesses, and that other classes are meant to expose those weaknesses.
The only MMO that had r/p/s was DAoC. It was a stupid idea back then and it’s still a stupid idea today. Name one other MMO that had this philosophy?
both light armor wearing casters
So? Are you saying light armor classes should be free kills for thieves or what?
Backstab isn’t fine. Neither is stealth. Both skills need to be nerfed to the ground.
What profession you play?
Elem
Scepter/Dagger, Dagger/Dagger has just as much burst, if not more than a backstab thief. If you are roaming around with a staff, your own fault. The fact you can’t see them is the issue, there damage is ON PAR with other classes burst specs.
D/D: Ride the Lightning->Updraft->Burning Speed
S/D: Dragon tooth->Phoenix->Fire Grab. 3 Moves, just as there combo, will do the same if not more damage, only difference is you’re visable. Thus stealth is the kitten puppy hampster chupacabra issue!
You’re completely and utterly clueless. If I go burst spec I’ll be dead before I can hit mist form if a thief attacks me. My only option is to go full bunker if I want to be able to compete against a thief.
Very interesting original first post. A thief has found out that there is a class that he can’t kill with ease if the class (mesmer) survives the initial onslaught. His conclusion is therefor that the thief must be a balanced class.
Did the whole thief community sniff glue when they were younger?
Backstab isn’t fine. Neither is stealth. Both skills need to be nerfed to the ground.
If my elem is slightly specced towards anything other than full blown bunker I barely have time to hit mist form before I’m dead. They need to remove the thief class from the game or start over as it is poorly implemented and makes everyone’s playing experience horrible. Except for the thieves themselves or the self proclaimed champions of E-sports who will tell you “they have no problem with thieves”. These are probably all also thieves in disguise though.
I don’t really login to play much anymore. I need some sort of carrot to keep playing MMOs for an extended period of time and GW2 doesn’t have it. Since I’m not paying a monthly fee I doubt ANet care much anyway. Their philosophy is obviously that everyone should be equal regardless of how much time and effort you put in. If that’s what their targeted player base want I’m not going to argue against that though. It’s just not my cup of tea.
However, I suspect that they want me to buy their expansions, but if all I’m getting are cosmetic upgrades and new dungeons and BGs without actual rewards I really don’t see myself doing that. Will others? I seriously doubt it.
Guys please just stop posting I’d even suggest to close the topic because no matter what the post, people won’t read’em and thieves fanboys simply won’t agree with anything we have to say. It’s clear they ARE trolling I mean c’mon how COULD you compare thieves’ burst to mesmer’s? I say they never played’em, either any build besides that one.
Check previous posts, you WILL be ignored no matter what, thus posting makes no difference.
Also check closely thieves fan answers *cough*bwillb*cough*, when I say “bugs come first” they say: “YES I agree with you, so let us keep the insta-kill build and we are happy while they fix bugs for the next months” (please notice how many bugs thieves got besides the so called rendering bug, which isn’t bound to happen on every1 as it may be caused by simple latency issues OR graphic cards, so not exactly every1, now compare all those “bugs” to what engineer has)
Such an obvious trolling…
No, they aren’t trolling. They just are that stupid. No matter what game they basically act like playing this class entitle them to be OP. For years in DAoC the assassin community there claimed they should be able to kill all classes with ease in PvP just for the fact of being “assassins”. The replies would go “We are called assassins which means we should assassinate people”. I’m really not joking. They are this stupid in every MMO. GW2 is not different. It’s always the same kind of morons who play thief classes.
Of course they aren’t going to listen to anyone. No rational person would try to reason with these people anyway. But devs have the right to know what’s up if they accidently stumble upon this cesspool of a forum. The more people speak up the faster the class will be fixed. Eventually it will be fixed.
Funny seeing all these newbie thieves saying that warriors are as OP as they are. Warriors can’t instantly teleport to their target and they aren’t invisible. You see them coming which makes a world of difference when you pvp.
Is this a concept you are too god kitten stupid to understand or something?
The thief in GW2 is the single most overpowered class in any MMO ever. I can make a thief, enter PvP at level one and I will completely destroy 90% of my opponents without knowing anything about the class except for a few combos that I picked up from youtube. And of course, I’ve done exactly that. The class is so OP that you’d have to be a complete moron not to see how broken it is.
A big problem with thieves in MMOs has always been the thief community in general. People who play them are complete kitten for some reason and devs don’t want to upset them too much. That’s why we’ve seen these people in previous MMOs defending thieves oneshotting other classes while permastealthed with things like “Well we aren’t so good in PvE” or “Well we don’t have any AEs”. At least in GW2 it is so god kitten obvious how broken the class is that since thieves in this game have no weaknesses what so ever that all they can resort to is “L2P” or “What about the warrior?” when they are killing people faster than any human being, apart from fictitious comic book heros, can react to. While invisible!
Battle report: VZ have realized they can’t win by PvDoor in the middle of the night like they did against FS for so many months so naturally they stop logging on. Clearly it’s only acceptable for French people to zerg in the wee hours.
Hey Troma, what was your excuse when WL got absolutely murdered by Nolby on Camlann back in the day? I forgot…
Arbor really have some skilled groups of people to be honest. Much props to them.
The secret is to abuse it together with the rendering problems so they can’t see you. Also yesterday I spotted a mesmer portal at a keep lord ahead of time and once they all used the portal hilarity ensued, solidifying my love for this spell. At least it’s better than the other so called “elite” spells elementalists have.
Vizunah would for the most part get slaughtered at prime time against FS and then resort to cap everything after midnight. Now they’re acting like they’re Spartans fighting the Persian empire when they can’t PvDoors like they’re used to. Hilarious!
Don’t lose too much sleep now…
I don’t mind it really, but the implementation is so utterly stupid it’s mindboggling. The fact that it takes only a few seconds to rez a downed player allows for the talentless zerg to dominate skilled players. (Rezzing in general is too fast with multiple rezzers) And the fact that some classes have very good abilities while downed while others have no way of delaying their impending doom is just completely unbalanced in many situations.