Guild Wars 2

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

But Agony is limited to only a single dungeon, so the condition is already incredibly limited, and only kicks in after you progress to a certain point. It is entirely possible to experience the entirety of the dungeon without having to deal with agony.

Again, that’s the situation we will have now. But they already said they will keep expanding the infusion system, and that implies they will make it more and more relevant, otherwise why introduce it and a whole new rarity tier in the first place?

To provide options in end game content. It’s an option you can choose to do that won’t effect any other aspect of the game. They never said ALL future content will have to deal with Infusions.

But then why oppose the fact exotic gear receives an infusion slot and you trash the whole ascended concept?

You still have your options and they keep their word about the fact exotics are and remain the most powerful items.

Why make the hard work of a lot of people that have geared up several toons obsolete? That’s the base of the threadmill system which most despise and is going to put ArenNet against Wow, which does these thing a lot better because they had 8 years to perfect their threadmill system.

There is still the acquisition gap between Exotic and Legendary. You can get your full set of Exotic gear at 80 within a few days after hitting max level, but will take forever to get a Legendary.

Ascended gives players something to work towards between Exotic and Legendary, it closes the gap in acquisition time. Exotic gear is flawed, its too easily acquired. They wanted something that players in the end game could work towards getting as a final step. This in turn gives the end game some aspect of length vs. having the final gear so quickly. You get all your exotic, then what do you do? Sure you can explore, you can go for new skins but alot of people already rushed for map completion, and dungeons can get boring. This gives you yet another option to work towards. If Exotics took longer to get, they wouldn’t have had to add these items. Besides, with the slow trickle of Ascended items being released, most players wouldnt have an issue of obtaining some of it.

The acquisition gap is an after-the-fact excuse to try and calm the anger on the forums over this announcement. Legendary weapons are difficult to get because they’re supposed to be…..they’re legendary.

No matter how it gets spun the release of this armor with superior stats on it is exactly what they stated would not happen. There is absolutely zero reason why ascension and infusion couldn’t be introduced in a similar fashion to GW1. This patch should have seen the release of new armor/weapon skins and possibly the beginning of legendary armor.

kistell.5684:

its not just about stats its about the separation of the community people wanted to get away from in other mmo`s ,

This is an important thing that has been breezed over in this thread. Not necessarily the elitism, as that will exist in some form or another no matter what. While gear gaps are clearly definable and promote elitism that much more, that is not what comes to mind for me.

The other form of separation in PvP and PvE in the form of gear. I am PvPer. Of that form I choose WvW because of it’s large scale, quickly evolving, dynamic nature. However, from time-to-time I enjoy the occasional dungeon. Especially if it includes progressing towards a skin I like.

However, Ascended gear will now gate content to PvEers with that specific type of gear only. It will cut down on the potential player pool available to run those dungeons.

It is the same sort of gating that hurts PvP in other games like WoW and SWtOR. It gates people from participating because they don’t spend enough time in that particular type of gameplay to have gotten the necessary “resilience” stat to be competitive. So rather than jump in for some casual PvP (thus giving us PvPers a larger potential pool to draw from and increase our fun), they opt out of it altogether.

Additionally, none of those stats make the player any better. It is an artificial feeling given to that specific type of gameplay.

No one but the most hardcore will be able to have two sets of armor to be competitive in both aspects of gameplay. Separating the community with an PvE/PvP specific stat is never a good thing.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

jboynton.7894:

Miragee.3604:

jboynton.7894:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

Anyone heard of an MMO that you can put down, play some single player games for a few months and come back to still be at top stats?

I would love a game where time invested is fun with some visuals being the byproduct reward.

Maybe a day one game where the designers dont need to add bodge treadmills to keep sub’s coming in.

Also it would be awesome to have lots of epic skins to buy for either £/$ or in game currency.

Man, that would be toast-balloons.

Will keep an eye out for some type of manifesto that sets the scene for a game like this to be created over a 5 year period. They may even start a blog to reinforce their ideals…. What could go wrong…..

GW1. It’s still available for purchase here .

And GW1 is, sadly, not blessed with getting new content. Some of us played this game 7 years and saw about everything in this game. Yes I will go back but I’m realistic and say: Not for a very long time again. If there comes a new addon, I would definately buy it (ok, implies that it is a GW1 Addon, not another random mmo addon).
The problem with viable games of that type is, that they need some new content at some point and in this case there aren’t real options.

I was simply posting that in reply to his sarcastic comment that a game does not exist with no vertical gear progression. When in fact one does. GW1.

You miss understood my post, or rather I did not clearly explain.

Im a GW1 fan and followed GW2’s development for years. My dig was the developers seems to have forgotten about their ideals.

Anyways. Im resigning on this tread to get some sleep.

I honestly hope that the post was written poorly and its 1 new tier what will never be replaced. maybe its just a single extra tier as the exotics was far too easy to be the Plato.

I posted a few suggestions back at the double figure pages so wont re-post again but I believe they need to get the PR team out to either offer apologies for the misunderstanding or admit they are scrapping their original core ideals.

Also signature will be updated once I know the outcome

Gotcha. The forums can be a bad medium to try and get a point across when attempting to use sarcasm or other conversation norms to stress a point.

Miragee.3604:

jboynton.7894:

Miragee.3604:

jboynton.7894:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

Anyone heard of an MMO that you can put down, play some single player games for a few months and come back to still be at top stats?

I would love a game where time invested is fun with some visuals being the byproduct reward.

Maybe a day one game where the designers dont need to add bodge treadmills to keep sub’s coming in.

Also it would be awesome to have lots of epic skins to buy for either £/$ or in game currency.

Man, that would be toast-balloons.

Will keep an eye out for some type of manifesto that sets the scene for a game like this to be created over a 5 year period. They may even start a blog to reinforce their ideals…. What could go wrong…..

GW1. It’s still available for purchase here .

And GW1 is, sadly, not blessed with getting new content. Some of us played this game 7 years and saw about everything in this game. Yes I will go back but I’m realistic and say: Not for a very long time again. If there comes a new addon, I would definately buy it (ok, implies that it is a GW1 Addon, not another random mmo addon).
The problem with viable games of that type is, that they need some new content at some point and in this case there aren’t real options.

I was simply posting that in reply to his sarcastic comment that a game does not exist with no vertical gear progression. When in fact one does. GW1.

Yeah, I got your post wrong. See my post more for a general information than.

No worries!

fractal.7039:

The incessant whining is hilarious.

The people that think they are entitled to anything and everything are the biggest whiners.

The fact that they are adding more carrots is just a great thing. The increase is small on the item they showed… They haven’t even showed any armor yet.

If the armor they show eventually is 8% better on the base stats but lacks a rune slot…what would the whiners say then?

A euphemism about a pot and kettle comes to mind with the above post.

Miragee.3604:

jboynton.7894:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

Anyone heard of an MMO that you can put down, play some single player games for a few months and come back to still be at top stats?

I would love a game where time invested is fun with some visuals being the byproduct reward.

Maybe a day one game where the designers dont need to add bodge treadmills to keep sub’s coming in.

Also it would be awesome to have lots of epic skins to buy for either £/$ or in game currency.

Man, that would be toast-balloons.

Will keep an eye out for some type of manifesto that sets the scene for a game like this to be created over a 5 year period. They may even start a blog to reinforce their ideals…. What could go wrong…..

GW1. It’s still available for purchase here .

And GW1 is, sadly, not blessed with getting new content. Some of us played this game 7 years and saw about everything in this game. Yes I will go back but I’m realistic and say: Not for a very long time again. If there comes a new addon, I would definately buy it (ok, implies that it is a GW1 Addon, not another random mmo addon).
The problem with viable games of that type is, that they need some new content at some point and in this case there aren’t real options.

I was simply posting that in reply to his sarcastic comment that a game does not exist with no vertical gear progression. When in fact one does. GW1.

RobinotX.1604:

jboynton.7894:

What does a new tier of gear have to do with having something to do? Do you mean to say that you can’t craft, PvP, PvE, or Explore without the reward of progressively better gear at max level?

No, but people need to get some sort of a goal.

For example I have many goals I have put myself, making Mystic Forge weapons instead of Legendary. Or making a legendary en get my characters all on the armor I want for them.

Some people have to hold a hand to know where they have to go.
WoW for example has goals. Goals where all people go for.

Guild Wars 2, puts you, a measly human, charr, norn, asura or sylvari in a wide world. And says, go and play. They say nothing about.

Before you can do this dungeon, you have to do this one. And after that, you have to dungeon X, But before you can dungeon X you have to level again in Area V…

Here it is, you can do whatever you want..

Now they have put one dungeon in it where you have to do something (sort of a must if you wanna do that specific dungeon), and go for it. You get a goal.

I see and I do respect what people think about the future, but I am not afraid yet. I wait till this patch comes out and see what it will do with the whole game. Maybe we are laying eggs for nothing.

Isn’t the goal to complete the content though? The reward for completing is then a unique skin and/or title/achievement that is only attainable by those who complete said content.

If people aren’t interested in completing content without the reward being progressively strong loot; then the fact is they’re not interested in the content at all, but merely interested in the loot.

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

Anyone heard of an MMO that you can put down, play some single player games for a few months and come back to still be at top stats?

I would love a game where time invested is fun with some visuals being the byproduct reward.

Maybe a day one game where the designers dont need to add bodge treadmills to keep sub’s coming in.

Also it would be awesome to have lots of epic skins to buy for either £/$ or in game currency.

Man, that would be toast-balloons.

Will keep an eye out for some type of manifesto that sets the scene for a game like this to be created over a 5 year period. They may even start a blog to reinforce their ideals…. What could go wrong…..

GW1. It’s still available for purchase here .

RobinotX.1604:

Darknass.1903:

Sousuke.7268:

Loosifah.4739:

The thing you’re failing to realize is for every person who hates this, there’s a person who loves it.

I do believe this thread is a clear indication that the numbers tip towards the “we hate this” demographic.

I’m just going to repost this because.. it still holds true 5000+ posts in.

“If you look there are A LOT of repeat posters arguing with eachother, and I’d like to just point out that the complaining usually drowns out the compliments only because the complainers feel compelled to come on to the forums and whine, while the majority of the happy players are more then likely playing the game.”

My thoughts on this topic: there is already a “treadmill” in place you start off with white quality gear and end up (at 80) still getting white level gear aswell as blue yellow and finally orange and purple (or blue… w/e legendary is). If they intended for zero gear progression they would have either;

A.) Made white quality gear “max” and then you would only have to look for gear you like the looks of. (rather boring in my opinion)
B.) Have each “tier” of gear level specific i.e. white is 1-19 blue is 20-39 yellow is 40-59 and then exotic’s/legendary and w/e else would be 60-80 or what have you. Also make each “tier” only drop from those level zones or creatures or whatever…

The system that is in place now is, I repeat IS a gear treadmill of sorts, smoothly pulled off so it doesn’t really feel like one but it is. You don’t start off with max armor and thus have to gear yourself up. Sure it doesn’t take long and sure once you’ve maxed your gears you only need to upgrade looks (well until this patch hits…).

I honestly don’t mind a bit of “gear progression” and as they stated IT WILL GIVE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE COMPLAINING THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO, SOMETHING TO DO!

This is pretty much truth indeed. If you agree this just quote it a few times so people can actually read it.

And about the fact the most people claim they win their fights.

I don’t. I was giving an example with my Mesmer..

I have enough fights which I lose 1 vs 1. Cause of 1: Bad skills usage at some time. 2: Just being bad.

But still I have fun, and having new gear to look forward though, me likes.

Not because I have to grindfest my brainout. No, because I actually like to play GW2, and love to see my characters in different gear ^^.

The whole cosmetic aspect is something I also missed in other MMO’s which gave us some sets, and where in the end everyone was the same.

WoW is a boring experience. The endgame content start at 90. The leveles 1 through 89 are a dragg.

Where GW2 delivers an adventure. You can do whatever you want in GW2.

You want to craft? Go craft.
You want to PVP? Go PVP
You want to PVE? Go PVE.
You want to Explore? Go Explore.

There is enough to do, but if you don’t like the things GW2 give you, then you didn’t like it before this news and will probably never like the game at all.

People wanted something do to, we know get something to do. I am happy with it.
Even when I am a donkey with a carrot.

What does a new tier of gear have to do with having something to do? Do you mean to say that you can’t craft, PvP, PvE, or Explore without the reward of progressively better gear at max level?

Darknass.1903:

IT WILL GIVE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE COMPLAINING THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO, SOMETHING TO DO!*

For a week. They’ll power through it again and be right back to where they started by saying that there’s nothing to do. After a short time of that, they’ll go back to whatever game they came from. This sort of thing is seen in every MMO, even WoW.

In the process they’ll have alienated a significant part of their player base.

Jestunhi.7429:

I read dozens of posts each day claiming the game is dead and that everyone has quit.

And yet they all seem to somehow miss not only the people ingame but also all these threads complaining that the servers are full.

24 US servers, 16 of which are full…..

I can find a dungeon group or zerg to WvW with on the weekday at 2PM EST without trying. Yet it’s still dying. I’ll never understand where these people are getting that from.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

Don’t worry after they institute these changes to the game with Ascended gear there will be alot more space for new players on the servers.

True story. But according to those supporting this change, these full servers are an indication of a dying game.

Jaxichael.2590:

mjalkar.5284:

camoflaugz.5031:

First off none of us know how this will turn out but I for one am very excited about the Ascended gear and Im excited for the new dungeon. I barely log into the game anymore because there is nothing for me to do thats interesting anymore. What are people afraid of? because they have to get new gear? what a joke, its just gear whats the problem with that? This is an MMO, makes me wonder what people are actually doing in the game because I could barely even log in anymore because I need a goal to keep playing. Now don’t get me wrong I might not like this but I’m willing to try anything new thats added and to me getting gear is not a big deal. Im used to it already and I’m sure that majority of MMO players are used to it. Its a natural thing in MMO’s. Anet, good move on this one, I just hope the new gear looks nice:)

the fact is this game was not intended to be a “get new gear” if not just from the look of it. This game has been HEAVILY sold as a Refreshing game, in which you would have to work hard just for LOOKING kitten, not for being kitten. I don’t know what kind of slope this new itemization process is going to add, the fact is that this kind of slope SHOULD not exist at all, not even in a form of a symbolic 1% of increase, becuase they bragged HARD of creating a refreshing product. They EVEN put a blog post on “GW2 Unique End Game” and I don’t recall they were talking about “getting new tier of equip there” .. so this is clearly a contradiction and an eye wink for that kind of playerbase that DO NOT BELONG to a game like this.

And your post doesn’t belong in this thread. Let me direct you to the 100+ thread with people who have your same opinion. :]

There’s a few people posting in the affirmative for this change in core design philosophy in that thread as well. So it stands to reason that people can do the same here.

Frankly, people can post in whatever thread they like as long as it is polite.

That being said, I am not looking forward to this change and am already enjoying the Planetside 2 beta.

Reevac.1748:

So who wants to take a list of all the people who are quitting Friday if they appear in game anytime over the weekend harasses them for being a hypocrite?

I vote you. It’s so important, I wouldn’t trust it to anyone else.

HTXL.2598:

Infractions are warranted, especially here and now. I have received one myself.

jboynton,

I expect more gear to come out in the future. I expect gear to get better because ultimately, how boring would it be to have the same gear stats, just different skins, even three months from now.

Let’s be open-minded.

It wouldn’t be boring at all. It’s what I fully expected for two reasons:

1) This is the sequel to GW1, thus carrying many of the principles over, and that game was extremely fun. It also had zero vertical gear progression in seven years.
2)It’s what was advertised and stated over and over and over again throughout the development phases.

In all honesty the ones who are truly closed-minded are the one who think this is the ONLY way this game can survive and that it MUST be done.

Additionally, this game is doing fine. All MMOs bleed players. It’s the nature of the beast. Nothing, no matter what, will retain 100% of the player base from launch to closure.

One surefire way to ensure a quick bleeding of players is to alienate your existing, loyal, player base in the hopes of grabbing them from another game AND retaining them. No MMO to-date has accomplished this.

Fayte.1803:

……..any changes made now would result in content being pushed back and they have a strict schedule to keep…..

One thing MMO companies most positively do not have is s strict deadline for anything.

HTXL.2598:

stof.9341:

HTXL.2598:

Eh?

You guys are worried about damage altogether right? Seems to me, by eyeballing, the one with more dps is the ruby.

Why don’t you compare the ruby ring with the Power/Precision/Crit Damage Ascended ring instead of going on a apples and oranges comparison?

We don’t even know if there will be that set. You’re speculating. You’re overreacting. All of you. Over what? 10-15 kittening points.

Are you adults? Because you don’t seem like it.

Do you honestly believe that the only ascended ring they’re going to introduce is the Explorer version?

camoflaugz.5031:

Corvindi.5734:

camoflaugz.5031:

While the small group of people are crying on the forums the rest are playing and farming in ORR. Were farming for gear already so this is GREAT NEWS for us. Come see the truth for yourself @ Jade Quarry in ORR.

Yeah, hope you don’t get caught in a bot sweep. I don’t think I want to risk going into Orr right now. But good luck to you, grind on, grind on, oh brave MMO soldier, grind on!

Heh, I don’t personally like doing this but I just logged on to see what is going on and the truth is this is what people are doing. I don’t think they are bots either. My point is these are the players that like progression and there is a whole lot of them busy playing the game and not posting here on the forums.

I also just logged on and stirred the pot in LA and in my guild by starting a discussion about ascended gear. The reaction I got was mostly negative. Just because people are playing doesn’t mean they support this decision.

Ethics.4519:

Latinkuro.9420:

xeph.8410:

Latinkuro.9420:

Ascended gear is welcomed with open arms, people complain about gear hamster wheel but they do not see that ascended gear is just in between exotic and legendary, now if they add something like godly armor as higher than legendary THAT right there would be a gear hamster wheel.

It constantly amazes me how many people think that Legendary items are better than Exotics.

Your signature, by the way, is very apt.

Yes better as in they have more pleasing aesthetics and cool effects.

In his original post he never said legendary was better than exotic. However, I think we can all agree they are, and also were intended to be. There is a bonus to legendary, they have slightly higher stats than exotics, therefore are better.

They are supposed to look better as well. All he was referring to was the time it takes to gain these items when he said “between exotics and legendary”. Although bravo at the somewhat subtle attempt of picking off an irrelevant point (albeit incorrect)

No there’s not. Legendary and Exotic weapons have the exact same stats.

camoflaugz.5031:

Nar.8327:

camoflaugz.5031:

krookie.6378:

camoflaugz.5031:

No I’m not trolling, but I shouldn’t say nothing is fun, that was wrong, I take that back. I would say at end game I need something to keep me going. This is an MMO, thats what MMO players look for at the end. If i didn’t want to do that I would just play a single player console game or something. As of now I don’t really log on that much because I’m waiting for the patch.

Speak for yourself. This is not what MMO players look for at the end. This is what you and those trained by WoW’s Skinner box look for at the end. Those of us who played UO and GW1 do not look for a gear grind at the end.

I played all MMO’s some for short time some for long. In the end the MMO that has more to do lasts and this has been proven by Millions of MMO players already. So I would say yes MMO players do look for this at the end. Whats the point of playing an MMO that has no progression? Its suppose to be built to last

No one’s complaining about having more to do. We’re complaining about being promised that this MMO would do it differently, where no one with more free time would have a statistical advantage over anyone else.

Maybe this is just targeted for the hardcore players? It seems to me that we have two different kinds of players. For the hardcore players which I seem to fall in that category now even though I don’t think I’m hardcore, we want to do things like that were your rewarded for your time. Im not really thinking of advantages over anybody Im only thinking of playing the game the way I enjoy it which is playing with a goal in mind.

The other group of players seem to just want to log in and do anything like jumping puzzles etc.. They can still do all those things.. but people like me and others that don’t post on here want something more than that. I play on Jade Quarry, when I log in theres tons of people in orr. There not there just to do it, there farming karma. The mass people in that area that are there on my server kinda show what they want.

I disagree. I would fall into the hardcore min/max crowd and I by no means want this to be implemented. My primary playstyle has always been mass PvP. From Anchorhead vs Bestine in SWG, to massive X-roads fights in WoW, to WvW in this game. I min/max because I want to give myself every edge possible when I play. I want to play in my chosen playstyle, as promised by Anet from square one, without having to grind dungeons.

Loosifah.4739:

jboynton.7894:

Loosifah.4739:

If the only thing you get from new sets and new gear in new content updates is a new look, what the hell is the point in doing the new content other than “Oh wow I have all these pretty USELESS sets”?

This is a prime example of what has happened to the MMO community. It is no longer about playing the game. It is about the PHAT LOOTZ SON that you get at the end. It really doesn’t matter to these type of people what that content is, as long as they’re properly rewarded for it.

If the content is fun and you’re rewarded with a skin that marks the prestige of what you’ve done; why isn’t that good enough? You can increase the difficulty of content without having to exponentially increase mob HP and Dmg. You can also make the content rewarding without creating vertical gear progression.

It’s not ALL ABOUT PHAT LOOTZ SON as you would say, I enjoy the game for what it is without a loot progression. But I also enjoy an upgrade in equipment from time to time. Get over yourself ‘son’

You take the forums far too personally. That was simply a little 1337 speak that goes so well with the implementation of a new tier of gear and the beginning of a new design philosophy more akin to WoW.

If you enjoy the game the way it is, there’s no need to change the core design philosophy. If you enjoy playing games with gear progression, there’s already some out there to play. Nothing is stopping people who enjoy that from playing those games instead or as well. Throughout my MMO “career” I’ve usually had two that I play simultaneously. Attempting to attract another game’s player base by changing the already existing framework will not work; it only alienates the current players.

camoflaugz.5031:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

If the only thing you get from new sets and new gear in new content updates is a new look, what the hell is the point in doing the new content other than “Oh wow I have all these pretty USELESS sets”?

Because we enjoy doing the content for the sake of fun!

You don’t need to chase the carrot to enjoy yourself. Doing fun things is fun.

Why should there be more to it than that? This is what Anet has said to believe, and it’s what many of us do as well.

Actually, nothing is fun for me, without a reason for doing something. And Millions of MMO players have proved this to be true already. Anet stick to whats proven numbers don’t lie.

You complete it to complete it and then are rewarded with a unique skin of gear, title, achievement, etc.

The idea that the item must be statistically more powerful is laughable.

Loosifah.4739:

If the only thing you get from new sets and new gear in new content updates is a new look, what the hell is the point in doing the new content other than “Oh wow I have all these pretty USELESS sets”?

This is a prime example of what has happened to the MMO community. It is no longer about playing the game. It is about the PHAT LOOTZ SON that you get at the end. It really doesn’t matter to these type of people what that content is, as long as they’re properly rewarded for it.

If the content is fun and you’re rewarded with a skin that marks the prestige of what you’ve done; why isn’t that good enough? You can increase the difficulty of content without having to exponentially increase mob HP and Dmg. You can also make the content rewarding without creating vertical gear progression.

Loosifah.4739:

So just because they add new content with a few upgrades to equipment they’re trying to steal players from other games? They’re trying to imitate that horrible kitten game that just imitated everything before it?

Get a kitten clue man. WoW was not the first MMO and it is definitely not the best. Nor will it last forever. Times changes; games get new content. Just because there’s a little vertical progression doesn’t mean it’s going to destroy anything.

Who’s to say this won’t just turn into a diagonal progression then flatter back out to horizontal?

Uh…yes….this change in design philosophy means EXACTLY that. They’re unhappy with the revenue being brought in by their current player base and are attempting to change the game into a more commonly recognized model that was “perfected” and take to epic proportions by Blizzard.

This is a serious risk on Anet’s part as people who enjoy vertical gear progression and are already established in a game are not going to be drawn away to play this one. In doing so, Anet also risks alienating it’s existing player base in the hopes of attracting the above. It is a risky gamble that has yet to work for any MMO to-date.

Vorch.2985:

Gingelyr.3648:

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

You’re so uninformed. Exotics have identical stats to legendaries. Check the wiki if you don’t believe me.

Frostfang Legendary Axe
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56205-frostfang

Carrion Pearl Reaver
http://www.gw2db.com/items/56379-carrion-pearl-reaver

Stats are not identical…

GW2DB is wrong. These are the correct stats on the Ghastly Greatsword and Sunrise.

Exotic and Legendary have the same stats.

Loosifah.4739:

Crater.1625:

Loosifah.4739:

Did you REALLY expect them to not add any additional sets/armors/weapons/etc. to the game EVER?

No. We expected them to never add better sets/armour/weapon/etc to the game, EVER.

Then you’re a kitten naive person. The game has only been out for 3 months and you expect them to never add anything better to use over time. This isn’t about a gear treadmill it’s about keeping content challenging and fun.

If you never add better equipment with better stats and new upgrades then new dungeons and monsters and events would be no harder to complete other than new mechanics.

If they increase the health pool and damage of a mob in a dungeon but also increase the stats of player gear thus giving you a larger health pool and damage; how is that making anything harder?

Vorch.2985:

ANet adds a tier so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary.

THEREFORE; GW2 is a gear grind/gear treadmill/WoW clone.

Slippery Slope Argument:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

Anet is not adding ascended gear so that people can attain stats closer to that of a legendary. Legendary weapons currently have the same stats as exotics.

This patch is increasing the stats on a new tier of gear and at a later time increasing legendary weapons to equal that of ascended weapons. Hence a new stat.

Nice link though. Fortunate for you, you can find anything on the internet and it’s all pure truth.

Silver Halliwell.4735:

Oh well, to the cry babies, goodbye and send me your stuff when you rage.

I’m always amused by players who post these kind of replies. Especially when later road after they….haz all ur l00tz….they’re asking for server merges and lfg tools cause there’s no one on to play.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

jboynton asks: “How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?”

How does aborting the design manifesto – which, arguably, drove those sales in the first place – help raise revenue from a game that has no subscription? Are hardcore players the top consumers of cash shop items? I doubt it. Are hardcore gear-grinders going to produce the same kind of B2P expansion sales (when one comes out) as launch? If ANET alienates everyone who bought GW2 because of that manifesto, and because of the non-grind “whole-world” end game philosophy, what are those expansion sales going to be?

It seems to me we’re witnessing a potential SWG moment here; ANET can alienate everyone who came here specifically because of what GW2 was billed as, promised to be, and for three months now has delivered by changing the core nature of the game. And for what? Players that endlessly run from game to game seeking a means to satiate a never-ending quest for avatar progression/power?

You quoted the wrong person. I posted that the game is financially doing fine and am against vertical gear progression.

I hope you are right.

Every sensibility and every experience I’ve had to date tells me that something clearly isn’t right in their model. It’s not having the desired effect.

I’d love to be wrong on this, and that they’ll read this rage thread and decide, you know what, we’re going to kittencan this whole vertical gear progression and go another route.

I don’t think it’s that simple. Again, you don’t do this, something so very against the core of your marketing and endgame model if everything is just fine.

MMOs require far fewer players to be profitable than people believe. Even Bioware stated that TOR only required 500k players to continue making money, and it’s development was significantly longer and more expensive.

Greed is the pure and simple driving force behind this change.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

jboynton asks: “How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?”

How does aborting the design manifesto – which, arguably, drove those sales in the first place – help raise revenue from a game that has no subscription? Are hardcore players the top consumers of cash shop items? I doubt it. Are hardcore gear-grinders going to produce the same kind of B2P expansion sales (when one comes out) as launch? If ANET alienates everyone who bought GW2 because of that manifesto, and because of the non-grind “whole-world” end game philosophy, what are those expansion sales going to be?

It seems to me we’re witnessing a potential SWG moment here; ANET can alienate everyone who came here specifically because of what GW2 was billed as, promised to be, and for three months now has delivered by changing the core nature of the game. And for what? Players that endlessly run from game to game seeking a means to satiate a never-ending quest for avatar progression/power?

You quoted the wrong person. I posted that the game is financially doing fine and am against vertical gear progression.

Webba.3071:

jboynton.7894:

I respect your posts and the fact that nothing we’ve said to each other has in anyway devolved into a flame war; but, please, please, please, stop citing that it’s based on financial pressures.

The data coming from NCSoft does not support this stance. NCSoft just released the 3Q financials on November 7th, stating: “B&S and GW2 have firmly positioned themselves as main revenue drivers for the company.”

That was a week ago.

And that data includes the box sales and all income associated with the release. How does GW2 maintain its position as a revenue driver without that income in future quarters?

That quote implies that GW2 is already making a profit as it is one of the “main revenue drivers”.

Games that alienate their fanbase in order to seek out players from other MMOs have historically failed miserably. This game attracted players because of what is was advertised as. People who are already established in another game that offers the same thing will not leave that game to come to this one.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

showatt.9413:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

That carrot doesn’t need to be vertical progression. They have taken the easy, and in fact, cheap option.

Which is logical for a company that’s out to make money to do especially when their game is free to play and its going downhill.

Face it, if it wasn’t going down hill, if no one ever got bored grinding for skins and everything is the way it was back at launch, they probably would not have done this.

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

Sorry dude, but the game is doing fine. Couple the server populations with the NCSoft 3Q financial statement, and you are just plain wrong.

You keep spouting off that the game is doing fine.

I want a logical explanation as to why, if that were the case, that they would completely change their endgame design, less than 3 months out from the game launch.

Why upset the applecart if there’s no reason to do so?

Because they want more. MMOs will always bleed subs until something new is released. It is the nature of the beast. However, the introduction of something new does not entail a reversal in the core development philosophy that’s been touted since virtually the game’s first announcement.

There are plenty of ways that new things can be introduced without including a vertical gear grind. NCSoft did this to cater to a different crowd because they are flat out jealous of Blizzard.

Crackbone.5710:

dirtyklingon.2918:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

gw2 has had one of the launches for day 1 sales in the genre ever, and quite comparable to non mmo games.

1 million + prelaunch sales.
2.3 million launch week sales.
who knows how many units have been sold since.

to put it this way, revneue from gw2 for first month unit and MT sales put it above BNS’s revenue in korea, which toppled aion easily over night.

from a financial stand point, gw2 has been very succesful, and seemingly devs were expecting number sto become lower, at least their posts during headstart and the first few weeks giving high concurrency rates for any number of things not working correctly indicates that.

“First few weeks”

It’s 90 days out now. I don’t have to go back and point to every MMORPG that’s launched since 2005 that has had great launch day/month numbers that have failed due to lackluster customer retention do I?

MMORPGs depend on retention. That’s the key. Sure, they may have recovered some of their development costs, but what about ongoing costs? Something in the data was likely not matching up to their projections.

That’s why you have vertical progression sneaking in.

I respect your posts and the fact that nothing we’ve said to each other has in anyway devolved into a flame war; but, please, please, please, stop citing that it’s based on financial pressures.

The data coming from NCSoft does not support this stance. NCSoft just released the 3Q financials on November 7th, stating: “B&S and GW2 have firmly positioned themselves as main revenue drivers for the company.”

That was a week ago.

showatt.9413:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Creslin.1758:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

May I ask what you are basing your assertion that GW2 is essentially in a downward spiral on? Please do not say XFire.

This is a calculated move. ANet knows that this move is likely going to alienate a certain percentage of their players, however, it’s likely to open up the game to more players, who will stay longer and play more, and put more cash into the shop.

Sorry for the snippet; but, history does not share your assumption. Historically, every MMO that has done that has failed miserably.

Right because Wow is dead.

And that’s a game with gear progression IN PVP.

I’m sorry but your history seems a bit different from mine.

If you’re going to interject yourself in the middle of a forum conversation, at least follow the posts to get some form of comprehension of what’s being discussed please.

This specific line of conversation was in regards to alienating the current player base in the hopes of attracting players from other MMOs.

showatt.9413:

Mandrax.7342:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

That carrot doesn’t need to be vertical progression. They have taken the easy, and in fact, cheap option.

Which is logical for a company that’s out to make money to do especially when their game is free to play and its going downhill.

Face it, if it wasn’t going down hill, if no one ever got bored grinding for skins and everything is the way it was back at launch, they probably would not have done this.

Accept the reality; Gw2 was dying slowly when they thought this up.

Sorry dude, but the game is doing fine. Couple the server populations with the NCSoft 3Q financial statement, and you are just plain wrong.

Crackbone.5710:

Creslin.1758:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

May I ask what you are basing your assertion that GW2 is essentially in a downward spiral on? Please do not say XFire.

This is a calculated move. ANet knows that this move is likely going to alienate a certain percentage of their players, however, it’s likely to open up the game to more players, who will stay longer and play more, and put more cash into the shop.

Sorry for the snippet; but, history does not share your assumption. Historically, every MMO that has done that has failed miserably.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

My interpretation of the numbers is far different than what the marketing speak out of NCSoft was.

Those numbers are far below what they should be for a title of this quality and size.

I want to be clear about something here :

I am not stating that a gear grind is the RIGHT way to do things. There are plenty of other ways you can add in character progression that’s more fun and more engaging.

However, the advantage to gear is this :

1. It’s quick. Same stats, marginally better, with a gated content slot. Easy to put it into the game, takes relatively little balance if the increases are largely the same across the board.

For whatever reason, and you can debate the why, I have my opinion, and you have yours, but, ANet clearly needed something “Quick.” If time wasn’t of the essence here, they would’ve gone a different route.

I understand what you’re saying, however, Anet didn’t “need” to do anything quick. The game is truly doing fine on it’s current path. Attempting to lure other MMO players at the risk of alienating your current fanbase has proven to be a very poor idea over and over and over again.

Crater.1625:

showatt.9413:

In fact I actually hope they bring out even more gears with better stat in the future, so that dungeon can grow in their difficulty as well.

… What?

A dungeon’s difficulty depends on how strong the dungeon is relative to the strength of the players. It doesn’t magically get harder when the numbers go up if your numbers are going up at the same rate, and increasing the dungeon’s numbers without touching your numbers increases the difficulty without introducing a gear grind.

In fact, what you’re asking for with new equipment tiers is for the game’s overall content to be reduced in difficulty. The newest, toughest dungeon will be set according to the level of power you can achieve by getting the new equipment from that dungeon, and every single earlier dungeon gets progressively easier and easier, because it was designed and balanced around a maximum equipment power level lower than what you’re now using.

This is a contradiction that’s been pointed out to those who are proponents of this change numerous times in this thread. It’s yet to be seriously addressed.

Couple this with the fallacy that NCSoft took a hit in their 3Q financials as a result of losing money to this game and we really have lost every argument for the new tier of gear.

showatt.9413:

pvtpublic.8752:

haha who cares. all this hate. There is barely anything to do in the game right now besides mindless karma farming and leveling new characters to 80. At least this gives you something to do. The player base is bored!

hell yeah.

horizontal progression work wells for a game like Gw1, but when you’re going after every other MMO’s player base, you need something better to keep them satisfied.

Work well for all those other MMOs on the market, didn’t it…

Crackbone.5710:

HTXL.2598:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

This isn’t 2004.

The market is a ton more competitive now. Furthermore, GW2 isn’t GW1. Not even close. The design of the game is completely different across the board.

This is a real MMORPG. People expect mechanics that will keep them engaged in their characters.

You can’t get by with MMOG mechanics in a MMORPG in 2012. There has to be a carrot or a reason for folks to keep playing.

And horizontal progression gets older faster than vertical.

Precisely.

Pulling all of the emotion out of this debate, you really have to consider the “Why.”

Why add vertical progression? I assert that it’s because their current model of horizontal progression isn’t retaining customers as they hoped it would. Furthermore, they likely had this entire model in their backpocket if the numbers stacked up this way.

It’s simple, Either you want Guild Wars 2 to be around as a healthy and profitable game for ANet and NCSoft for the next 3-5 years, or you want outdated mechanics from 2004.

They are, in my opinion as ANet has figured out, mutually exclusive, and it’s coming home to roost now as Ascended Gear.

Sorry man, but NCSoft’s financials just don’t mimic what you’re posting. Frankly put, the game had a massively successful launch and continues to be successful to this day. The problem is, that the suits who make the decisions get jealous of Blizzard. Period.

You cannot compete with WoW. This has been proven time and time again. The only thing that will kill WoW is Blizzard.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Either you get with the program, that progression is needed and it’s needed now, or you can kiss Guild Wars 2 completely goodbye.

This game needs a carrot that’s not Legendaries. Folks, if you think that this isn’t being done because they are having a retention problem, then you need to look again.

If ArenaNet doesn’t put something in there to keep people playing, and quickly, GW2 is toast. I love the game, but that’s just the truth.

Where are you getting this data from?

Experience.

You don’t change your basic and core philosophy midstream, on a dime, without some external force. If things are humming right along as expected, we wouldn’t be seeing this change now.

Typically it’s money that’s the driving force. They likely have internal data that suggests their retention isn’t where they want it and therefore are introducing this vertical progression mechanic as a way to keep people engaged. Furthermore, the infusion mechanic is a gate to keep folks from burning through the new content at the rate they have been.

So, you have no proof what-so-ever to back up your claim that this game is dying.

My experience is that people will also do things to increase their revenue, despite already making a profit. This is especially so in the MMO market when people see Blizzard’s subscription numbers and profit margin as a result of WoW; which is quite frankly and unrealistic goal to strive for.

Every game that attempted to mimic WoW has crashed and burned. Look at all the money and hype poored into SWtOR…which inevitably became known as the TORtanic. This MMO is doing fine, look at the server populations. Anet will continue to make a profit by catering to a different crowd.

This game is not dying and it does not need to change in an attempt to grab people who are already happy in a game that’s been out since 2004 and in which they are established.

This isn’t 2004.

This market demands different things than it did then, especially in this competitive genre.

The writing has been on the wall for a month. One only had to look at the NCSoft 3Q financials to see this was coming. It’s right there in black and white.

Anecdotal evidence is piling up as well. This game isn’t holding people. They play through till 80, and then bail on it.

That isn’t going to keep the company afloat.

You mean the NCSoft 3Q financials that stated:

“Strong growth was achieved in US and EU, fueled by successful launch of GW2”

and:

“B&S and GW2 have firmly positioned themselves as main revenue drivers for the company.”

Available for your viewing pleasure here.

Crackbone.5710:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They lied to us for years.

/Thread

Or, they fully intended to go the route they had “promised” only to find out it wasn’t going to meet the needs financially.

What would you have them do? Just allow the game to crash and burn?

Reality has a way of being a kitten when it comes to lofty ideals meeting a market driven economy.

GW1 was f2p from the start and had multiple expansions. That game was successful enough to warrant a sequel. This game is doing fine.

Crackbone.5710:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Either you get with the program, that progression is needed and it’s needed now, or you can kiss Guild Wars 2 completely goodbye.

This game needs a carrot that’s not Legendaries. Folks, if you think that this isn’t being done because they are having a retention problem, then you need to look again.

If ArenaNet doesn’t put something in there to keep people playing, and quickly, GW2 is toast. I love the game, but that’s just the truth.

Where are you getting this data from?

Experience.

You don’t change your basic and core philosophy midstream, on a dime, without some external force. If things are humming right along as expected, we wouldn’t be seeing this change now.

Typically it’s money that’s the driving force. They likely have internal data that suggests their retention isn’t where they want it and therefore are introducing this vertical progression mechanic as a way to keep people engaged. Furthermore, the infusion mechanic is a gate to keep folks from burning through the new content at the rate they have been.

So, you have no proof what-so-ever to back up your claim that this game is dying.

My experience is that people will also do things to increase their revenue, despite already making a profit. This is especially so in the MMO market when people see Blizzard’s subscription numbers and profit margin as a result of WoW; which is quite frankly and unrealistic goal to strive for.

Every game that attempted to mimic WoW has crashed and burned. Look at all the money and hype poored into SWtOR…which inevitably became known as the TORtanic. This MMO is doing fine, look at the server populations. Anet will continue to make a profit by catering to a different crowd.

This game is not dying and it does not need to change in an attempt to grab people who are already happy in a game that’s been out since 2004 and in which they are established.

Heimlich.3065:

jboynton.7894:

Crackbone.5710:

Either you get with the program, that progression is needed and it’s needed now, or you can kiss Guild Wars 2 completely goodbye.

This game needs a carrot that’s not Legendaries. Folks, if you think that this isn’t being done because they are having a retention problem, then you need to look again.

If ArenaNet doesn’t put something in there to keep people playing, and quickly, GW2 is toast. I love the game, but that’s just the truth.

Where are you getting this data from?

Guild Wars 2 has an obvious retention problem. Its subscriber base is now 0.

lol

/15char

bcbully.7289:

This may be the largest thread of ticked of customers I’ve ever seen. I’m trying to think back on others, but I can’t remember one that’s longer or moving this quick.

The NGE shadows the anger at this.

showatt.9413:

honestly most people here are all about the GW franchise and wanting to keep the game true to the manifesto.

They don’t want to game to reach out to WoW’s market – instead they’re happy to understand that with 24 US server (16 full and 8 heavy), that the game is doing quite well in this over-saturated MMO market.

Gw2 is the sequal Gw1, which is why the “diehard” gw1 fans love this game without vertical gear progression.

Gw2 is a game on its own, and it has attracted not only gw1 fans but also fans of other MMOs who are looking for something different.

Edited your quote. See what I did there?

Crackbone.5710:

Either you get with the program, that progression is needed and it’s needed now, or you can kiss Guild Wars 2 completely goodbye.

This game needs a carrot that’s not Legendaries. Folks, if you think that this isn’t being done because they are having a retention problem, then you need to look again.

If ArenaNet doesn’t put something in there to keep people playing, and quickly, GW2 is toast. I love the game, but that’s just the truth.

Where are you getting this data from?

MrLee.6892:

Cappy.2786:

Only ppl that didin’t play GW1 will rage,nuff said

Its the people who did play Guild Wars 1 that are raging and saying “leave my precious Guild Wars 2 just like Guild Wars 1” Don’t ever change a thing darn you!!

Those are the people who are raging.

You know they could go back to Guild Wars 1 if they don’t like it!
At least they have that option!!

\

The same could be said about people who want gear progression. There’s dozens of MMOs already in existence with this same exact model of gameplay.

Telling people to hit the road is never a good idea.

xtorma.1283:

They are going to mold the game around what brings in the most revenue, no matter what they promised. If they feel gear progression is preferred by more people that buy gems than static gear and cosmetic carrots, that is what they will do. they are first and foremost a business.

If they honestly thought that this change in direction would lead to a drop off in revenue , it would never have made it past the brainstorming phase.

That’s not necessarily the case. MMO development companies are notorious for implementing drastic changes to the game as they become jealous of WoW’s subscription base. Afterall, if Blizzard can do it….so can they.

More often than not it is a complete and utter failure and it has never even come close to reaching WoW’s success.

showatt.9413:

fixit.7189:

Wow, this thread is a mess. They are cramming anything related to this topic right into this one and making it even more confusing than it already is. What real dev is going to even bother reading it now? lol.

It’s actually best that they don’t.

honestly most people here are all about GW1 and wanting to make the game exclusive to GW1 fans.

They don’t want to game to reach out to a new market – instead they’re happy to close their eye and pretend the game isn’t dying because the lack of progression.

Gw2 is nothing like Gw1, which is why the “diehard” gw1 fans have already gone back to gw1.

Gw2 is a game on its own, and it has attracted not only gw1 fans but also fans of other MMO. to satisfy everyone’s need, compromises have to be made. It’s really sad how most of the community doesn’t seem to understand that.

You’re kidding right? What “new market”? If by “new market” you mean WoW’s subscription base….gotcha…..

The game was advertised a specific way. People who came from other games knew what to expect if they did any research on this game all the way up-until-now. This game was designed in the model of GW1 from the start. It is only now, two months into release, that there has been a complete reversal of philosophy.

And this game is dying? Since when? Of the 24 US servers, 16 are full and the rest are heavy.