Guild Wars 2

Mightybird.6034:

jomir, it is a much smaller deviation than s2. In s2 you could have the equivalent of ESL players on one team, and joe smoe on the other. Now its much closer. And if the “worse” players make better plays they can much more easily win.

why? when everybody has the same amount of pips and the algorithm finds 10 players in “pip-range” you can still end up with 5 noobs at one side and 5 esl players on the other….
especially in the beginning of the season (no taking the placement in account)

Evan Lesh.3295:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

season 3 we get both
i.e.

red – blue
8 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8
8 – 9
9 – 8

something like that maybe.
otherwise, one team gonna have slightly higher overall MMR.

Season 1 would have been closer:
6 – 7
6 – 5
5 – 5
5 – 4
4 – 4

Your season 2 example is accurate, though could be closer in some circumstances.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

i still don’t get it. how is this different to S2? all the good players in one team all the bad ones in the other… (everybody in +/-15 pip range).

I like the current pip-system (and I don’t have any problems with the MM-System atm), but I think it still relies to much at grinding and not at skill.

1) Allow division/tier regression starting from emerald
– to avoid frustration, players start with 1 full tier when they are promoted (so they won’t drop back at their first loss)
– accordingly demoted players start with 1 empty tier
– while a player is in this promotion/demotion range, only match him/her with other players (last tier/first tier)

2) Reward skill and not time-spent
– only give very few rewards (eg. first time reaching a division) during a season
– give rewards at the end of a season according to the players final rank.
– To motivate players for pvp give everybody a small reward (“Amber – 0 Pips”), even if they didn’t participate this season.
– Re-Introduce a Leaderboard (including all players), so everyone can see what he/she will get, if he/she is still at this position at the end of the season (similar to the guild-team rewards)

3) Give good players a head start in the new season
– place them according to their mmr (advantage: playing unranked in between seasons “means” something)
– or place them according to their rank in the last season (eg. 20% of their earned pips)

4) Make every match count
This is the most controverse suggestion, but I think it will overall lead to a more accurate leaderboard (reflecting skill and not time-spent).
– limit ranked matches to a certain amount (eg. 50 matches/week or 7 matches/day)
– remove grinding based achievements
– pip/mmr decay system to avoid high ranked inactive players

5) Templates & queuing outside of HotM

zinkz.7045:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range.

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

Ultimately, this means that the new matchmaking changes will make PvP Leagues much more reflective of your actual skill, and each division will be progressively more difficult to compete in."

Really? What it looks like is that they are doing the opposite to good matchmaking in order to move better players through quicker, on what planet is that good?

What happens in diamond / legend, so Helseth (for sake of an assumed high MMR example) queues at 12 AM, then the next 4 highest MMR people in his pip range get put in his team because teams are made on MMR, they then get matched against some other guy who is at a similar pip range and has a lower MMR than Helseth and therefore his teamates have a lower MMR and you get a crappy one sided match even in Diamond / Legend.

What sort of kittened “matchmaking” system works on the basis of doing the complete opposite to matchmaking, by stacking one side? And remember that is not just going to happen at top level that is going to happen at every level of the game, laughable non-matchmaking.

I mean if PvP had a playerbase the size of DOTA 2 or something then it could work, but this is a game that often can’t even find a 5 man team for opponents when 5 ESL players queue as a team.

it’s called “seeded” vs. “unseeded”. at the uefa 2016 you don’t want germany and spain to play each other early. they should face each other the latest possible.

of course if you are at the top tier of the divisions the only way to avoid this, is to make a premade team.

Shylock.4653:

jomir.1958:

after some time the good players and premade teams move further/faster up the league, the casual and not-so-good players will stay in the lower divisions.

That won’t work. As soon as the better players have moved on to the next division the other start to win and follow. So better players move faster other slower. But in the end everybody is in the highest division.

I don’t think this would be a problem since the league is open end. Better players will just repeat the legendary Division more offen. If u don’t want this, make seasons shorter or increase the amount of pips needed to advance. This is also the reason why demotion is not really needed. Its a race who has the most pips at the end of a seasons.

i agree. but you can easily achieve the same by counting all of a players pips (starting from 1st division) at the end of a season and give them a head-start for the next season of x% (whatever seems ok) of this pips (and place them in the division/tier accordingly ) .

i really don’t understand. why is MMR still part of ranked matchmaking?
(not talking abount unranked! and of course it would be a good thing to adjust MMR after every ranked/unranked game.)

as i understood the whole League System it should be eliminated competly.

when a season begins everybody starts with 0 pips (maybe in the future sucessfull players can start with more. like in hearthstone). everybody will be the same.
the matchmaking system only needs to match the players based on their division/tier/pips.

the noobs will be stomped by the good players, the PUGs will be stomped by premade teams.

but only in the beginning!

after some time the good players and premade teams move further/faster up the league, the casual and not-so-good players will stay in the lower divisions.

the whole system will be in balance without the need of MMR, and from this time on the W/L ratio should be at 50:50 for each player again.

at the end of the season everbody should be in the division/tier according to his/her skill.

tl;dr: remove MMR from ranked matchmaking. it leads to players stuck in the wrong divisions.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Teutos.8620:

laokoko.7403:

Anyone know what other esports games do?

In other games the points you gain depends on how close you are to your MMR.

The simplest solution, and the solution I’d currently recommend is from World of Warcraft.

Our old ladder system just ranked us depending on our MMR, but it was possible to reach the highes MMR with a lucky 3 games win streak. With a point system, where you first have to farm up points very slowly, you are not put onto the front page after 3 wins, it will take some time to climb up the ladder. And in the meanwhile your MMR will adjust, and the first 3 lucky games will count less.

But once you have play ~50 matches, your score points should be near your MMR. And since the points rewarded depend on your current MMR, once player might end up on the ladder with 1700 points, and another with 1900, depending on how good he was.

Other games take those points, and place them in a league system. Instead of just earning points, you are placed in a division, and to jump from one division to the next one, you also have to have a certain win chance while facing opponents at around your current division level.

The league system should be the end goal, since it offers small goals for the players. It is far more encouraging to climb up a single division and to just earn another “100 points”, but for starters, the obove mentioned system from WoW would be nice too.

I really like the sound of that.

my suggestion:
steal the system from hearthstone http://hearthstone.wikia.com/wiki/Ranked_Play

i wrote my 2 cent about megaserver/alliances some time ago here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/WwW-Megaserver-GvG/first

i think most of the things mentioned can be addressed.

eg.: player is in 3 guilds.

WvW Zerg Guild → assigned to Alliance A
WvW Roaming Guild → assigned to Alliance A
Multiserver PvE Guild → assigned to Alliance B
and
“personal one-person” Guild → assigned to his/her former Homeserver (→ Alliance C). This would also be the default alliance after the change.

he can choose anytime which alliance (A,B & C) he want’s to be for the NEXT round/season. If he chooses A he can switch between the two assigned Guilds anytime.

the best thing to make guild server changes more predictable, would be to implement a public rooster for all alliances (including all assigned guilds an member counts). so everybody can check which guilds are assigned to which alliance anytime and plan their moves accordingly.

hello,

i was thinking how the new changes (guild merges) and the Megaserver will affect WvW.
My question is, why not go the whole way till the end? That means, why keeping “Homeservers” and not replace it with “Guild Alliances”? My suggestions would be:

• Drop the Homeserver and replace it with Guild Alliances
• Each Guild (managed by the Guild Leader) has to choose a Guild Alliance (e.g. “Alliance Desolation”)
• Per Default each Guild is assigned to it’s Homeserver responding Guild Alliance
• When the Guild Leader changes an Alliance it will be in effect at the next round of WvW. (or Season)
• Each Player has to choose it’s active WvW Guild. Only with this Guild he/she can enter WvW.
• When a Player changes it’s active WvW Guild it will be in effect at the next round of WvW. (or Season)

Pros:

• (Multiserver)Guild’s can play together WvW (and use their usual “Infrastructure” eg. TS)
• Balancing the matches will be easier (cap the max. Players per Alliance)
• Maybe player will be able to found own Guild Alliances in the future (e.g. for Gems)
• “True” Guild wars
• Easier WvW recruiting
• Easier Megaserver balancing (no Homeservers)

Cons:

• For Anet: No more transfer costs
• No more “Homeserver”

just my 2 cents..

cheers!