Guild Wars 2

Rangersix.1754:

The torch is absolutely crap, never take it over a focus. A focus offers more damage, more survivability and a blast finisher. All the torch offers is a weak 6 second aoe burn (which is 180 range, basically melee range) and a very weak, short range and difficult to aim condition cleanse.

Huh? You do know that you can actually fire #4 and deal massive dps? Also #5 again deals massive dps

just a basic comparison to focus

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Flame
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Fire

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Wrath
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ray_of_Judgment

Their cooldown difference makes a world of difference for offensive usage. Not to mention if you are playing with scepter you will likely be at a certain range, which means your SoW will hit nothing.

Also, since you are ranged, you can remove condis from those who are in melee and you should have no trouble positioning yourself

Leo Paul.1659:

And I imagine most organizations would be quick to detach themselves from or disown individuals who commit crime outside their office.

Yes they would, in lightspeed. But wheter or not they would disown you and hand you over was not the topic nor the issue.

Lostwingman.5034:

It changes how NPCs react to you but not because you’ve actually changed anything in the open world, which is what everyone’s point is. It’s difficult (bordering on impossible) to have many options for the PC in the Living Story that also reflect on the actual open world.

Also at this juncture of the living story, we are so beyond “personal choices that primarily just affect the PC” that it can’t be considered. The only way we could is with “side story” type things.

Where was it everyones’s point that it should be about changing open world content? I must’ve missed something, and did not personally argue for it. It was about player agency and developing your own character. Manipulation of the open world only came in when I mentioned open world quests in SWTOR

GW has a great chance at player agency because personal and living story are instanced.

Saint.5647:

kasoki.5180:

You do realize that not everything you do in game is done as Ambassador of the race X or as Commander of the Pact. For example, you kill him, even though you are Commander of the Pact, that doesn’t mean that that the whole of the Pact was in the conspiracy. The same goes for you as the Ambassador.

It’s not about if you kill him, but whether or not it can be connected to your superiors

Not at all. Organizations put huge emphasis on representation in every day situations. What you’re saying simply isn’t true in ‘real life’. You can act as independently as you want but the questions of accountability will always be asked of your organization and your superiors.

In game this translates into the political inquiry as to why the Commander of the Pact murdered an Asuran dignitary. Trahearne, even if he believed you, would do his best to separate himself from you to preserve the integrity and prestige of the Pact. It goes on.

Long story short, no, you cannot be viewed separately. You’re involved in way too many high profile activities and organizations for that to be possible.

Actually it is exactly like that in ‘real life’. Simply because a member of organization, or a representative of nations government does something illegal, the said organization/government is not criminally responsible unless broader conspiracy is proven. I’m not talking about need to sanction you, or have you removed or imprisoned. The whole talk was about other races withdrawing their anti-modremoth support because you killed Phlunt.

Let me give you example. Ambassador of country X commits murder. He is the one criminally accountable and he is the one that will be prosecuted (if his gov strips him of immunity and gives him up). Meaning, the whole government isn’t criminally accountable for actions of one man unless broader conspiracy can be proven.

If I kill Phlunt, you can’t just pin it on Queen Jennah/The Crown or Trahearne/The Pact simply because I was associated/employed by them or member of their organization. You would need to prove that I was ordered by them (or that they were part of the conspiracy) or that they should’ve forseen it and did nothing to prevent it.

It’s not a sloppy cheat. It influences your character progression, characters personality, the way world (NPCs) react to you.
Most importantly, it influences how you perceive your own character and build your own in game identity.

Why should it have such an impact that it changes the whole world for other players (minecraft?) in order to be a viable option and difference?

For example, it is like saying that your choice of college means nothing since at that moment, to the outside world you are just a student no matter your college option. But it does matter to you, it influences you as the person and your personal growth, and others might/will acknowledge your choice and act differently based on it.

I’d also recommend you try Soldier gear with Assassin crests and Berserker weapons

But If you play mainly with scepter you can really experiment with glass cannon builds, meaning 6/6/0/0/2 and zerker gear + Wall of Reflection as a must have. I would also recommend torch instead of focus

Or you know, we could simply speed up the parliamentary transition that is already taking place in Kryta

Also, she doesn’t have to marry someone of ‘noble blood’ (considering how there are numerous ways for someone to become a noble and not al are related to family geneaology) for the child to be considerd a noble.

For all we know, she and Logan maybe have a child hidden somewhere (pure speculation)

I’m not sure I know what you mean.

I will try to answer it as I understood the question. For example, there is a quest in SWTOR called testing grounds where you have to poison water supplies of local rebels. The poison causes sever pain and prolonged suffering.

But another officer tells you that you can end the rebellion with stronger poisoning of the water which kills them instantly.

You can choose – let the rebels suffer, or kill them instantly. Depending on your choice you get Light or Dark side character points (which determine a part of your end game gear)

The key idea is letting player create his/hers own personality within that situation, even if the end result is not radically different.

Palador.2170:

Would it help if, between LS2 and LS3, we had a series of small story arcs that focused on each of the biconics so we could get to see them as their own, separate characters better?

• Rox gets word that the cave-in that killed her warband may not have been the accident it seemed. A gladium may not be able to get all the answers, but if she has us beside her she might get the answers she needs.

• Stories of Taimi’s adventures have spread, and some young asura have decided that “If Taimi the sickly can do it, so can we!” Now they’re in over their heads, and Taimi feels it’s her fault. With our help, she sets out to rescue them.

• Word reaches us that Brahm may have bitten off more than he can chew, and we charge in to save him. When we do, he turns on us, furious. We find out that for him, we’re the ones playing the part of Trahearne and stealing his story. Can he prove to himself and the spirits that he’s worthy while we’re there, or will his legend disappear into our shadow?

• When Kas’s family fell from nobility, many of her “friends” suddenly decided they didn’t know her. Now, one of them has contacted her, begging for help. Can she set aside the past to help? Should she? And why is the Countess lingering nearby?

• One of the few good people Marjory knew in the Ministry Guard is dead. They’re saying it was a random street thug that did it, but she doesn’t believe it. What’s really going on here, and can you help her to survive long enough to find out?

/clap

BAM! Five new dungeons, just like that

Why would you compare a video game with airsoft, or any kind of physical activity? Why not compare it with book or a TV show, which are story driven? Such analogies are matter of perception and only corrupt our discourse since they stream it in a certain direction (and wrong one that is)

I for one am completely fine with LS and wish more of it, since my main interrest in GW is story. For me, personally, if a game lacks any decent story, I won’t be interested. So, in my opinion ANet pushing with the story is a good thing

In SWTOR main story was instanced, but the regional story was not. You could’ve still talk to NPC and quest givers (in outside world) and have your own course of action, possibly different from another player.

You do realize that not everything you do in game is done as Ambassador of the race X or as Commander of the Pact. For example, you kill him, even though you are Commander of the Pact, that doesn’t mean that that the whole of the Pact was in the conspiracy. The same goes for you as the Ambassador.

It’s not about if you kill him, but whether or not it can be connected to your superiors

Walhalla.5473:

Ayakaru.6583:

fine, fine, kill Phlunt, we don’t need the asura to fight the elder dragons

To be more precice we need no other race to fight the dragons. Killing an ambassador is political suicide and I don’t think the other races would work with us when they see that we killed an ambassador.

Just because a member of the race X killed him, that doesn’t mean that it was on the orders of the given race’s government. It can be a personal quarrel

Nobody needs, to know. Now, Councilor Phlunt, this way please….

OK, thanks a lot for you time and effort

Ok i have a few new questions

1. How come Bloodstone was need in order for humans to be given magic? I mean, magic existed before, and there are other magic wielders and other sources of magic in the world (if I am correct)

2. How are the Doors of Komalie kept shut? Shouldn’t there be some sacrifices for the soul batteries in order to keep the gates shut?

3. How come Flame Legion came into a contact with titans if they were kept in the Realm of Torment?

To be fair, the first example is a guy employed by Lionguard, not by Asura, though other examples are fine

I think you are overestimating Anise’s powers. The way you portray her, she should be the main meal on ED menu

Kulvar.1239:

It’s a MMORPG, not a solo RPG. It’s already too much that there are millions “second in command” of the Pact. Also, focusing the story on the player will make that not all people would be satisfied and will need more time. They have to make a story for each race.

Bad argument considering how The Old Republic, despite being a poor MMO, did one thing great – story and characters (including main protagonists) – technically that’s two things :P

So, yeah, simply because it’s an MMO, that isn’t an excuse for bad writing. MMO’s can have good story with well written characters

Dustfinger.9510:

kasoki.5180:

It doesn’t matter how many scenarios there are since it is not about quantity, rather, it is about explanation behind them.

Also, lore and integration can be given through history of the race, or by showing you the society of that race, their everyday live. Showing you accomplishments of the race, and including you, the protagonist, as one of the actors of that race glorious moments. Integration should not be given via compulsory racism. That should be optional for those who wish to roleplay that way.

Also, let me just ask, what is general lore of a certain race and why is it the determining factor of individual’s action?

because a-net can’t program every possible option that someone can imagine their individual character taking. That’s what RP is for. In fact, what you are doing by saying that your asura likes skritt is RPing. But what you are asking A-net to do is change the mechanics to tailor to your individual RP. But there is too many different RP characters for them to do it to tailor the gam to everybodies own vision of their character.

How is this a reply to what I’ve said? You didn’t adress anything that I have said. I gave you alternatives to how you can integrate a player character into a community and you didn’t even acknowledge it.

Also, why are you twisting my words? I have never said that all the possible options should be given. Nor did my words even imply it. I have said that only a minimum should be given which allows your player to break out of the negative stereotypes he/she doesn’t wish to be associated with.

Dustfinger.9510:

kasoki.5180:

It seems to me that you’ve missed my entire point if you think that giving option to ‘rebel’ against current social trends breaks the general lore of the race. Because the general lore of any race is not, nor will ever be that they will ALL act the same in same situations. Lore of the race is related to their history, trends in their society, relations with others and their surroundings. And that is how it should be presented, not by forced conformity. (Or maybe I misunderstood your last paragraph)

It seems you’ve missed my entire point. Race lore is also the flavor and zeitgeist of a society. Those trends and zeitgeist will have tendancies that are so much easier and practical to represent than every other possible option that someone may want.

‘Zeitgeist’ doesn’t mean that all individuals think/behave the same on the issue. It means that there is a trend. Trend =/= everyone.

Argument how it’s not easy to implement in game doesn’t work in this case. Why? Because this was a quest which already included multiple options. And you were denied one of those on the basis of race. In this particular option, you have forced me to RP as a rascist Asura

Not to mention how this game is full of conversations that have absolutely no impact on the game. Giving you opportunity to simply say how this is not because you are an Asura, since Asuras have a tendency to dislike skritt is no large feat to acomplish.

There is nothing problematic with race lore, there is nothing problematic with showing certain trends within a certain society. Compulsory rascism and conformity is problematic and should be reserved for those who wish to roleplay it that way.

This is what I’m trying to argument here. If you force me to choose a certain behavior simply because I belong to a certain race, that is a bad writing.

When you force me into a choice, and then explain it with ‘well, you are a member of race X, so you MUST feel that way’, that is a terrible writing. That is a terrible perception of individuals and society and their relation.

Again, before you turn it into how this obviously means that they have to include every possible option, it isn’t about quantity of choices but rather about the explanation and argumentation behind them.

I knew it!!

Those oversized cats! To arms!

#humansupremacy #reclaimascalon
:D

It doesn’t matter how many scenarios there are since it is not about quantity, rather, it is about explanation behind them.

Also, lore and integration can be given through history of the race, or by showing you the society of that race, their everyday live. Showing you accomplishments of the race, and including you, the protagonist, as one of the actors of that race glorious moments. Integration should not be given via compulsory racism. That should be optional for those who wish to roleplay that way.

Also, let me just ask, what is general lore of a certain race and why is it the determining factor of individual’s action?

It seems to me that you’ve missed my entire point if you think that giving option to ‘rebel’ against current social trends breaks the general lore of the race. Because the general lore of any race is not, nor will ever be that they will ALL act the same in same situations. Lore of the race is related to their history, trends in their society, relations with others and their surroundings. And that is how it should be presented, not by forced conformity. (Or maybe I misunderstood your last paragraph)

And also, I would really like you to show me those Asura outsiders, I have never seen them in game and that would really improve my general opinion of GW narrative when it comes to races.

Cheers

Thanks alot, really like those theories you presented

draxynnic.3719:

Historically, most nobles had property in the capital and/or the nearest large town as well as their estates – that’s one of the sources of the term ‘townhouse’.

Yes, they held property in the cities, but feudal lords held tenure over land. This doesn’t appear so in GW.

draxynnic.3719:

Second, source please? (It’s actually arguable even now if there’s any such thing as private land that isn’t ultimately owned by the government – it just gets paid for in terms of land taxes rather than rent.)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lord_Arrin

It is even said so by the mayor of the town, so i think it isn’t some oversight.

draxynnic.3719:

Third, again, source please? There’s no serfs, sure, but that distinction means farmers are free to pack up and move elsewhere, not that they necessarily own the land. They could be renting… and most people who are renting still tend to refer to what they’re renting as ‘theirs’, even if that isn’t technically true.

Well, I can only say how each NPC says it’s theirs and gw wiki says that they are the owners. Though you could be right on that one since its hard to properly interpret what they say.

draxynnic.3719:

The army of a feudal kingdom is the Crown’s army, even if it’s mostly composed of the armies of fuedal lords.

Tenant-in-chief had obligation to provide some troops for the king, and that was the king’s army. All the others were part of armies of feudal lords, who were fealty to the King since he was the source and guarantee of their rights. This is why it was common for feudal lords to combat between themselves and sometimes even for a feudal lord to rise against the crown – because there was no centralized control over all the military forces
In GW (IIRC) it is clearly stated that the crown is top of seraph chain of command

Ynna.8769:

kasoki.5180:

Shield makes no sense since it has less defense than my boots or gloves. It defeats the concept of the shield because it offers limited protection and doesn’t block melee

The Shield is a defensive weapon. The Guardian is a magical fighter. The Shield offers magical defense. The concept shouldn’t be that hard to grasp.

Guardian is not the only proff that uses shield. You didn’t really defend the notion how its normal that a shield has lower protective abilities than gloves or boots or even light armour helms that casters use. Seriously you shouldnt event try to defend it. For kittens sake, its a pachment of silk and it has higher defense than a shield. Its not simply a game mechanics issue, it is a gameplay concept issue.

Second, guardian is not just a magical fighter, he is a fighter and protector who uses magic. Both, not just one of those. Also, comapred to focus, shield isn’t the one that adds magical defense

Dustfinger.9510:

kasoki.5180:

Dustfinger.9510:

Every every possibility of every individual can’t be accounted for. Some things just have to be represented by the general tendancies of the race.

‘Every possibility’ is one extreme while acting like a generic stereotype is another. Those are two extremes, and there can be a middle ground. Especially in a quest involving choices

You don’t have to put many choices in order to avoid the whole race to seem as if they have the same personality and prejudices

Without a-net putting ‘every possibility’ in the game, there is always going to be something that falls back on the race generalization.

So picking one instance (this one) where they didn’t put a whole lot of choices and saying that causes the entire race to have the same personality means that the would need to put every possibility because any one instance that doesn’t have those choices can make it seem like the entire race is the same things.

So, unless they put in “every possibility”, there will always be something.

No it won’t. Only thing needed to break this notion how they all think alike is to simply put one opposite option. That’s it. You need exactly two options on any matter and you can break what currently happens with some races in GW : they all think alike.

For example
Situation 1 —> The one in game if I understood correctly
Can player pick Skritts?
Player choice A: No

Argumentation : No they can not because player race is Asura, and they ALL dislike Skritts

Situation 2
Can player pick Skritts?
Player choice A: Yes
Player choice B: NO
Argumentation : Even though there is a trend of Asuras disliking Skritts, player is not necessarily one of those people.

It takes literally two choices, Yes or No, to fix this sociological horror in GW narrative

Wasn’t CM build for Caudecus? I mean, thats how I remember it from speaking with the guy who designed it, though I could remember it wrong :/

Dustfinger.9510:

Every every possibility of every individual can’t be accounted for. Some things just have to be represented by the general tendancies of the race.

‘Every possibility’ is one extreme while acting like a generic stereotype is another. Those are two extremes, and there can be a middle ground. Especially in a quest involving choices

You don’t have to put many choices in order to avoid the whole race to seem as if they have the same personality and prejudices

Good thread, nice to have someone involved

My first question is not so much about lore per se, but related to it

Q1: Is there any NPC in GW2 that can retell me events of LS1. In details, like who are Braham and Rox, history of Scarlet etc etc… (I’ve missed out on LS1, and now LS2 is a bit confusing)

Q2: What is Queen Jennah’s last name?

Yes, I agree with OP, they feel very forced upon me. Especially since I’ve missed some parts of LS 1. I have spent huge chunks of season 2 wondering why are they calling me boss? Why are they with me? Why can’t I tell them to buzz off? It literally feels like I am forced into a friendship.

This brings us to a second issue of GW2. If you are going to have narrative driven game, where world changes, you NEED to have some sort of codex (like the ones in Bioware’s games). If you force me to play with certain characters, and obviously want me to like them, then give me sustainable information about them.

And yes, I agree with another point. They do a lousy job of representing their race. Why not give me oportunity to ask Taimi about Asuran history? Why not ask Jory something about humans? Those characters could’ve been great lore-givers. But no, they are only recycling generic sentences and combat cries.

Shield makes no sense since it has less defense than my boots or gloves. It defeats the concept of the shield because it offers limited protection and doesn’t block melee

It is because all Asura have the same personality. Haven’t you noticed that

flipyap.5789:

Just because certain orders and races dont like other races doesn’t mean anet is breaking immersion, that’s just silly. It’s pretty realistic.

It’s not realistic. Individuals, no matter the society they were socialized in, can think for themselves and evaluate reality by themselves. There IS a certain amount of individual agency. Also, not all are socialized in the same manner. Not all humans think the same on the particular issue, so why should Asura?

Asura and Norn seem to lack in this are the most in my opinion. They all have the same personality.
Can someone please point me to an Asura who doesn’t wish to work in a laboratory and isn’t a smirky kitten?

Can you point me to a Norn who wishes to marry and settle down, be decent at his work and have a stable life? No, they all wish to be legendary

draxynnic.3719:

In around the time period that Kryta seems to be set, it was still the assumption that the nobles would provide military support to the crown – however, there was a special tax that the nobles could pay in lieu of appearing in person with their own troops. (In fact, in some early forms of feudalism, there were no taxes paid to the Crown by the aristocracy – military service was all there was.)

You can’t really relate socio-historical setting of GW to real world. One key difference here is that majority of nobles own property and estate in Divinity’s Reach, they have little outside it. Second, lands are not owned by the Crown. Third there are no serfs. Farmers are the ones who own their land, work on their land, and sell the products of the land.

draxynnic.3719:

How appearing in person with their troops fits in line with basically all of the soldiers we see being members of an order is unclear, but my gut feeling is that ‘providing military forces’, when not waived through paying the scutage, basically translates into raising, training, equipping, and sponsoring one or more Seraph or Ministry Guard units – which may, if not called elsewhere by the crown or ministry respectively, default to defending and policing the personal fief of the noble who raised them.

You see ingame that the training (and regruitation?) is done by the Seraphs, who have outposts and a chain of command, at top of which is the Crown – supreme commander (duties currently delegated to Logan)

draxynnic.3719:

Personally, I also get the feeling that the Krytan orders (apart from the Shining Blade) aren’t as unified as they may look at first glance. The Seraph have five to ten companies that have no official unified control below the Crown – Logan has become a ‘first among equals’ unofficial commander, but effectively the Seraph is a collection of semi-independent armies with common equipment and uniforms rather than a national army in modern terms.

You are right about that, but the important thing is that it is the Crown’s militia, not the army of local feudal lord.

draxynnic.3719:

There’s a few tidbits around on the political system as well – basically, if you think of the Crown as an inherited presidency and the Ministry as Congress and judiciary combined, you’ll probably miss a few subtleties but have the right rough idea.

Yep, and there is the problem. Considering how much of human PS is politics related, they have given us zero info about their rights and obligations beside the basic institutional info (ministry and queen construct laws, queen passes/vetos them, ministry judiciary comitee serves as the highest court)

Figure out which skills/builds are rearly used and improve them. You know, just so we all don’t go around with a greatsword

Would also love to have a a more useful shield, or maybe even a new weapon, like axe or warhorn

Yes, it is a bit weird. Wealth and title are not related to each other

The argument about her father not being able to collect taxes or provide military forces makes no sense since Kryta obviously has centralized military control, and we don’t really know much about governing rights and relations in Kryta. (Also not all feudal lords had the same obligations to the Crown back in feudalism)

Other thing, if Kas’s family lost their titles and rights simply because they did something publically shameful, I don’t see how Kryta has any nobility at all. It is too much of interpretative category.

Unfortunately, ANet decided to give us all the info on their military groups, and nothing about their political and legal system. Big fail considering that each time I do a human story its something about party politics.