Guild Wars 2

Shockwave.1230:

Would people like to know what the quote I see is?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Oh ya, wanted to add: yes, we’re watching Mesmers, bunker Guardians and tank heal Ele’s. Forgot to add that.

Does that Quote say nerf?

Do people know what happens when people start falsely interpreting and raging throughout the forums about what Devs say without a valid reason to be upset? Devs stop gifting us information, and for good reason. What incentive is their to gift us more information outside of official blogs and patch notes when people are just spreading wrong information and going to find reasons to rage? I see less than 0 incentive.

Try to cool it people, and get information from the source.

Hi Shockwave -hope you are having a great evening. I don’t think anyone is raging-just expressing their opinion/concern. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. If you read the post it said “respectfully” and thus far everyone – has responded in a decent manner. I personally just wanted to get other perspectives to determine If I was missing something (especially if they are focusing on it). I’ve played it and the damage is abysmal -I just wanted to see if someone else had a different perspective. I apologize if that bothered you.

hey everyone-thanks for responding-I had everything equipped. Anyways I deleted her and remade and that fixed it. Same spec stats – strange.

Hi,

I noticed after the last patch-my damage significantly decreased-crit was at 39%(rely on auras for fury) but its hitting lower than the description…

Anyone else notice this?

Thank you for clarifying your post. Your answer – some classes can affect a invisible stomper but other classes cannot but it won’t make a difference. I would beg to differ in terms of “it” making a difference because every second counts. Also I wonder why even put in a downed state to begin with it – if all abilities, regardless of class, cannot counter an invisible stomper(alone, without team mates).

JonathanSharp.7094:

Oh ya, wanted to add: yes, we’re watching Mesmers, bunker Guardians and tank heal Ele’s. Forgot to add that.

Hi Everyone,

Above is a recent comment by a dev on tank/heal eles? I’ve played this build and have lasted as long as my necro(with my double hp bar) and my guardian..but in turn, my dps significantly drops. Is this build that OP that they’re watching it?

I do hope they are aware of all the comments on these forums. If the one statement they make about ele balance is in regards to a nerf, then I’m not sure what the future of this class holds.

Please (respectfully)share your thoughts.

Mammoth.1975:

All of those are aoe effects. They’ll interrupt a stealth stomp.

So essentially what Im gathering is that if I don’t play an engineer or guardian-if I play my elementalist, there is no way to counter a stealth stomp (without another team member) therefore deeming her downed state abilities null and void(useless) as there’s a 6-7 active recast timer for mist form.

Thanks in advance.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

nldixon.8514:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Sprawl.3891:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Yes, why shouldn’t it be? Stability from other professions also has the same effect to an extent.

stability is a boon and can be stripped, you can’t strip stealth

Stripped=removed a.ka stopped/prevented. Yes you can infact stop/prevent the stealth stomp.

I am sorry bad PvP’rs, at least your “hurr durr backstab is OP” cries had a (weak) basis, this topic has no basis at all, there is nothing wrong with Stealth stomping.

How do you stop a stealth stomp? Because on my Ranger this is how it usually goes:

Thief starts to stomp (or uses a stealth skill to disappear). I wait until the stomp is almost before interrupting. Thief wait a second, reapplies stealth, stomps me. If I sit there and throw rocks while he’s stealthed, guess what happens?

Sometimes I might have my wolf out and he’ll howl and send the Thief running for a second, but he comes right back and starts to stomp again. Usually from stealth.

Thanks for proving my point that you Thief haters have no basis with this complaining about stealth stomping.

So a Thief stealths, stomps you wait and count in your head how long there is left and interrupt the stealth stomp, the thief waits some seconds for the exposed condition to be removed, stealths and stomps you.

Is that correct?

Do you realize that the Thief would actually have finished you faster if he didn’t even go for the stealth? since he wasted 2 seconds stealthing and 1-2 sec for the exposed condition to fade.

What if a Warrior was stomping you? What difference is there? not much.

Stealth stomping is only convenient and helps when the the Thief is low on health, which is logical and justified for a profession which has low health and armor by default.

Now there might be cases where I stealth and stomp you from behind so your interrupt doesn’t land etc. but the point still stands.

Also you ask how stealth stomping can be stopped 100%? Read:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Absorption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Inversion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Staggering_Blow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gust
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Air_Blast
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Wind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Mark
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Fear_Me!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stomp
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thump
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wave_of_Light
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Escape
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deception_

Thief haters should go back and complain about a normal/decent build like backstab build, while we good Thieves lol at you for not knowing that there are 3 other builds which are atleast two times better than backstab build in a serious sPvP/tPvP environment.

Hi Hellsing,

This wasnt a post about Thieves as Mesmers can do it as well. It’s about countering a stealth stomp via a counter. What you listed were ways a stomp could be countered..not a stealth stomp. No one is asking for a nerf, just a solution.

Hi,

I was wondering if there was any mention of whether “stomping while invisible” is working as intended? I searched the forum and could not locate anything on this?

I haven’t found a counter to someone stomping while invisible because both you and your team mates can’t target anyone. This removes the whole rationale and purpose behind downed state abilities then, no? I think some classes might have an aoe knockback(could be wrong) but most don’t. Elementalists can, however, root the stomper near his/her corpse so it will force them to stomp them (playful sarcasm).

If someone has a solution aside from not dying, please share.

Thanks.

Xhaiden.3891:

Ele requiring skill is kind of the entire problem. Namely you’re using twice as much of it to net the same performance as other classes.

That’s another way of looking at it although I don’t equate clicking on 5 buttons instead of 2 as “skill” – I view that as inefficient. Again this requires your opponent to be slow/non reactive as the 5 sec cc from MG and FB does not offset dps output. Smart players will heal and dodge – the burst is not there- I don’t see it number wise. What’s the highest number your Elementalist hit? I saw 5k on the forums? My mesmers phantasm-warlock)with enough conditions hits 7k+.

Toxification.8421:

-Shocking Aura: Anti skill really, considering it encourages you to get hit, which is horrendous to your playstyle. If you could use it when stunned to counteract the inevitable incoming damage(hundred blades for example) then I’d say that it would be a very useful ability. However in its current state I find it useless except for the fury and swiftness I get with it.
-Lightning Whip: Challenging because you not only have to be close but it consistently misses depending on how you kite.

-Ride the Lightning is Flat out broken. I had a clear line of sight and got stuck sparking there for a solid second and a half doing nothing. Quite frustrating

Shocking Aura, Ride the Lightning, and gust(RTL combo) are IMO the only reason to switch to the Air Attunement aside from the switfness from swapping. The other two spells do horrible dps. Ride the Lightning generally works for me (sometimes it overshoots and or stops-making sure you have a clear line of sight will reduce it. Magnetic Grasp bugs out more often for me(overshoots and almost acts as stun on yourself as enemies with take that advantage to unload to you).

Shocking Aura is great if you time it right. When a thief/warrior goes after you, look at their actions and determine whether they are unloading. If you form that telepathic bond, cast it – pops a 1 sec stun on them which is semi useful.

Amnon.4769:

A very interesting analysis, but would you not also consider staying near your opponent “skill” even if he tries to move away?

Yes it does take some skill to stay close without dying but one of my points is that having someone stay in line of drake’s breath for 4 seconds really requires the other person to be slow/idle. Each tick btw adds additional burning.

Hi Everyone:

I thought I’d share a brief analysis on this profession, particularly, in PVP mode. My personal take on this class is – yes it does require skill BUT it also heavily relies on your enemy to be idle or move slow. Most of our most efficient dps spells(dagger/dagger) require the enemy to stay still or you to be in close range:

Drake’s breath: Channeled spell-4 ticks with burning attached. Must be near the enemy and have all 4 ticks hit for maximum damage output(wouldn’t the average player dodge this?)
Cone of Cold: Channeled spell-4 ticks. Must be near the enemy and have all 4 ticks hit for maximum damage output(wouldn’t the average player dodge this?)
Churning Earth-5 sec cast-enemy must stay within radius. (wouldn’t the average player dodge this? Or they can simply walk away with 5 second cast time)
Dragon’ Claw: Must be near enemy AND at right angle to ensure all 3 streams hit enemy.

Now assuming the opponent doesn’t dodge after 8 seconds of channeling, your Dragon’s Speeds lands, and the enemy is idle enough so you land all of your Dragon’s Claw spells-even then, against a thief, it’s null and void. Their dps output is near 100% higher ( I am not going to throw in stealth as Elementalists have snares/knockdowns) and it’s burst-no casting.

Elementalist Nerfs? .
I understand that during the initial BWE- Dragon’s Tooth and the Meteor Shower were nerfed . My question is why? For a game that requires players to be on the move-shouldn’t idle players be penalized for staying in one spot? I almost never land Dragon’s Tooth as most spvp opponents dodge, some even walk away from it(no need to dodge-it’s very slow). Even then, many instant abilities do more damage than Dragon’s Tooth. Why not nerf the arcane abilities via damage or very long recast times?

One of the many solutions would be to take away the requirement that “enemies must should be idle or slow to land” mechanic. IE CoC and DB-change the 4 sec channeling in two seconds or remove channel all together-make dragon’s claw one stream. This is one of many (rework traits)

A Call for nerfs?
On a side and personal note, I think it’s not fair for us to call for nerfs on other classes especially if we don’t have experience with them. IE Yes the Mesmer’s warlock can hit for higher than an Elementalist but the trick to taking down a Mesmer is looking for unique movement, control+t the target, and then aoeing the phantasms/clones while focusing on the target. Let’s focus on the challenges Elementalists face. Is there anything else that anyone can think of?

**The dps efficiency sheet is still in works. . As such I wouldn’t take it at 100% accurate. I am still trying to understand the mechanics in terms of casting, recast, activation times, etc… Even anyone has any corrections, please post and I will adjust. Any feedback is appreciated as this will help everyone. Maybe I will post a google doc once I fine tune it. The sheet uses a naked 80 character with no traits assigned. Also, I know it’s not all about dps-but offense is measurable. Also their some things you should take into consideration-like initiative acts a combined currency.

Elric of Grans.7684:

Rolo.9248:

I am far from mastering the class and I had the same knee-jerk perceptions but I’m going to “L2P” before I have the hubris to tell Anet that they don’t know what they’re doing and “demanding” they turn my ele into a thief (who, in my last dungeon was getting squished the entire time—CM story, mind you!—and the two eles weren’t—I and the ranger almost got monthly survivor but there just wasn’t enough XP in the dungeon—and none of us were in CM before except the guardian who disconnected from ISP issues right after we entered and never returned).

The Thief is easily the squishiest class. I would expect Elementalist to do better in PvE.

The Elementalist has an awful lot of defensive, healing and control spells. Surely, the class runs more of those spells at once than any other class in the game. Look at the focus: complete projectile denial? Oh, and Invulnerability! Insane! No question, a skilled Elementalist can Blind, Knockdown, Vulnerable, Cripple and Chill everything they look at, all at once. Trouble is, they do not have a lot of options for damage on a sceptre, staff or focus (dagger seems to have all our offensive spells). This results in either a close-range glass-canon, or a mid- or long-range control-heavy character who has less offensive options than other classes. More of those options are AoE than other classes, but they have less.

I have a Ranger, an Elementalist, a Thief, a Warrior and a Mesmer. The Elementalist, in my opinion, does not have the highest learning curve. I honestly think many players puff it up more than it is. Our attunements are more obvious than weapon swapping for other classes, because they have clear, defined roles and are already determined for us. The Elementalist is not the squishiest, the Thief is. The Elementalist does, however, take the most effort to play. I feel mentally exhausted playing the Elementalist, whereas the other four I can faceroll PvE. It also takes me more hours to attain the same progress compared to the other classes. Elementalists are perfectly viable, but, as many others have said before me, they take more time and effort to attain the same result at the other classes.

I would have to disagree with you based on numbers. -posted a while back but here it is again:

………………..Necro.  Elem.    Thief
Power              1729     1216     2054
Precision          916       1016     1166
Toughness      1571     1016     1771
Vitality             1571     1016     1571
Attack             1729     1216     2054
C. Chance        4          9          14
Armor               1571     1091     1771
Health               24922   11805   17355

That’s 80 no gear, weapon, etc..naked. Thieves can spec into toughness/vitality too. Of course we can pop on the focus to play defensive but then our dps becomes even more subpar where as a thief has 6k+ hits then can easily go back into stealth. Personally I try to avoid focus as I don’t get enjoyment out of going invulnerable for a few seconds while doing very low damage. Btw I am not an expert on thieves – no opinion on that profession in terms of balancing. Just wanted to provide the actual numbers.
 

Picture of my Elementalist(Level 80).

zafery.6784:

Even as a full on support build, elementalist is useless..*My personal opinion is: You cannot change battles with healing or buffing in this game.. *Because the numbers you get are tiny, compared to offensive abilities.. By supporting you give your team an edge over others (that is you contribution).. Which could also be given as more offensive capabilities and field control..Since those are practically non-existant, it seems like elementalist is good for support roles only.. This is completely wrong though, and i do not believe for one second this is what the game-designers had in mind….

Well the video shows an almost healthy balance of what support/control/dmg ratio should be.. The problem is, the control and damage aspects are not as strong as they should be (even though mostly those aspects are used).. That’s why there’s no wow-factor even in a great elementalist video… And there are those, who would only emphasize the damage or control aspect, and it is their right to demand to do so, since it is an option for all the professions that are out there… And also that is what this game is all about..

Spot on-you posted right before me-many of your points echo mine.

This sPVP build works in terms of providing slight utility and granting some survivability(support-survivability build)– and that’s great for those that want to fulfill that role..but not all want to. If utility is primarily what you’re looking for play a staff Mesmer. Some us would like to play other roles such as glass cannon(pure DPS with low utility and survivability). After reading numerous posts and from my own experience, most everyone agrees that the glass cannon build is not viable. The DPS for a glass cannon – well..there’s no cannon attached. I can’t imagine Anet wants to limit us to one or two support/survivability roles in sPVP. Also, it seems as though the video shown is a premade team, try pickup.

Experience with this build in sPVP:

Match against a guardian: I won but it took about 3 minutes. My damage was incredibly low- Same exact spec as shown in the video. Imagine if the guardian knew what he was doing or if another team member came to help him out?

Experience playing a thief: I rolled a thief. Initially I had no clue what I was doing but added much more value: I was top player 4/5 matches; damage 600, 800, 1k, 5k,+ etc…(vs extremely low DPS on my elementalist); and of course – survivability. In fact there was one match against an elementalist-she threw out all the stops-knocked me down, snared me, made her self invulnerable, her damage was too low..after using my 4 dagger ability and saw her trying to limp away, I felt bad and let her go.

I played quite a few matches – only encountered maybe 2-4 elementalists..there are many matches in sPVP without elementalists I would think this is a clear indicator that something is broken/wrong with the class. GW2 is an amazing game, the Anet team did an amazing job, the spells and overall class design are solid but there needs to be some changes/buff to dps! Im sure they’ll look at the numbers(win/loss ratios; number of elementalists that play sPVP, damage output, etc…) and make a decision based on factual evidence. Or who knows, it’d be great if they just jumped into the fray in pickup SPVP as an elementalist and posted a live feed for everyone to see. That would awesome!

I just wanted to say thanks to the OP for throwing out viable builds for those that are in premade teams that want to play support/utility.

Hi Gelrod. I think there’s a general frustration from elementalists that hit max level to hear feedback from people who’ve invested very little time with the profession or from those that haven’t played other professions. For example look at the overpowered thread below..started by someone who plays a thief and “played around” with an elementalist. I think this frustration was compounded, for the OP, because the dev made mention of the overpowered threads..though I believe the dev was generalizing. Elementalists have done a great job explaining the difficulties they face in terms of dps, survivability, specific spells, and overall skill caps. I dont think there’s any question nor ways to counter these challenges. Anet will most likely verify sources for any feedback they are taking seriously. I trust in Anet..they are very good at what they do.

I’ve played the Elementalist to level 80.  I love the profession design/spells..the team or individual responsible did an amazing job.  However at the moment, I believe they are underpowered.   Let’s take a look at the base stats(naked toons at 80) according to the game guide:
               

………………..Necro.  Elem.    Thief
Power              1729     1216     2054
Precision          916       1016     1166
Toughness      1571     1016     1771
Vitality             1571     1016     1571
Attack             1729     1216     2054
C. Chance        4          9          14
Armor               1571     1091     1771
Health               24922   11805   17355
 

As you can see Elementalist ranks lowest in all but one area.  Why is this?  I believe there was a fear that Elementalists would be overpowered due to all of the abilities from attunement switching.  However as many are finding out – they are  underpowered..dps is low..easy target in pvp..utility provided is already dished out by other classes who can contribute more in dps and by simply surviving. 

The profession design is solid but what about that gap?  My suggestion would be to make the Elementalist choose a strength.  A final grandmaster trait ability should define how the Elementalist will be played and should not be stackable with other final grandmaster trait abilities. IE, for fire and air ,  add + significant damage to their respective lines (aoe vs single)bringing it close to thieves (2054 vs 1216 is quite a gap).  In earth add +Toughness and + bleed dmg/length to bring us near Necros and Thieves.  In water increase our healing ability to be close to that of guardians and improve/add conditions..etc…

What about attunement swapping?  Well that will seperate good from average Elementalists(boons/utility).  How about balance?  The Elementalist, in my view, should never be as strong as a thief in terms of dps on a single target but should be much  closer if they spec air grandmaster..that’s the trade off for versatility. In earth, toughness should be equal to that of Thieves and Necros but dps should be subpar.  Again that’s the sacrifice for versatility.  

There is a place for Elementalists in spvp and dungeons – its versatility –  they should be able to wear different hats..but they may not look as good in them as other professions  but should look pretty darn close.  Those small deficits should be made up by boons and versatility.