Guild Wars 2

Good points. Stats don’t necessarily need to be forbidden from runes, you could still make new rune types that contain stats instead of combat bonuses, which would fill the same role as taking the crests or doubloons that we have now. Since those replace runes. Essentially you’d be trading something like “Shouts heal” for something like “+5% boon duration” or “+X Power”.

But now that I look at it, maybe 3 slots wouldn’t be enough. 6 slots would probably be better. That in addition to runes that contain stats instead of combat bonuses should still offer enough space to obtain desired numbers. Though I guess you would still end up losing a bit of that Min/Max freedom with all the available slots that we have for stats now. I personally just think it would make switching between builds more simple by reducing clutter while at the same time trying to open up more options with runes, which would undoubtedly need to be redone completely.

I don’t think they would be able to make the crests give variable amount based on the slots they’re in though. Even if it were possible, it could be confusing. They would probably just have to be static amounts based on the combinations we already have, where 6 crests is about equal to a set of armor, trinkets, and runes. The stats could still be 3 or 4 stat combos though, that shouldn’t need to change from current armor.

And lastly, I don’t really see it affecting crafting all that much. You would just craft crests separate from armor, which would require their own costs. Armor would mostly remain unchanged I imagine. You would still be crafting your armor to upgrade the quality, which would require their own amount of materials based on the piece. If anything, the only real difference is crafting would be way more consistent in price. As an example, instead of paying much different amounts for a berserker chest vs. a magi chest, they would be roughly the same because it would only be based on material cost to upgrade the chest piece to the next quality level rather than the stat type.

Like I said, this would require a lot of work to actually make it happen. It would need to be fleshed out more. And it steps on the toes of a handful of systems that are already in place, so it’s likely not even possible because so much would need to be changed. But if it were possible, I think it would be a really nice change, even if you lose a bit of Min/Max potential.

So when they announced legendary armor and how you could freely swap stats and runes, it got me thinking. What if that was just the standard way it worked for everyone? Kind of like how it is in PvP.

I understand this will probably never happen, as it would nullify a few systems that are already in place, plus it would require quite a lot of work. But an interesting thought at least.

The idea is that you remove all stats from armor/weapons, trinkets, and runes and then put all the different stat combos onto crests instead. Like how PvP amulets are. But instead of a single amulet, you would have multiple crest slots so you could still mix stats as you wish. And since crests already exist in game as an almost entirely unused item, it would bring a new use for them. I don’t know where the number balance lies on this to make it roughly equal to what it is currently though.

Armor/weapons would no longer have stats like power, toughness etc. attached to them except for the base defense stat. And with increased armor rarity you gain better crest slots for better rarity crests. This still gives meaning to increasing armor rarities, but for the most part makes armor purely cosmetic. So you wouldn’t need to have different versions of all the different skins in the game for every stat set, you would just need the crafting system to increase rarity.

Runes would also no longer have stat bonuses, they would just have their combat set bonuses. These would all need to be reworked to have proper bonuses obviously.

Trinkets would instead be used to add up your total agony resistance instead of sharing it with armor. However this would pretty much erase any need for different rarities or even different sets. You would just need a single set which was used to equip AR on.

And lastly, adding two slots for food so that you can map them to a hot key.

The goal behind this would be to simplify switching between builds. Instead of carrying around multiple sets of armor/weapons, taking up all of your bag space, you would only need to carry around the stacks of necessary crests and runes.

Additionally, this makes a lot of runes more desirable by removing stats from them. You’re no longer forced into taking stats you don’t care for just to gain certain combat bonuses. At the same time you can take the stats you do care for through crests.

I know that kind of takes away the QoL feeling of stat swapping from legendary items. But they would still have their unique animations and better crest slots, so I don’t really think they would become irrelevant.

I made a quick little picture so you could get an idea of what it might look like. What do you think? Would it work? Or do you prefer it the way it is now?

Ben K.6238:

I think this idea has merit but does need an answer to the reset night lord rush which is guaranteed to be a problem every reset.

No, knocking out the server for the match isn’t going to be viable, but you can treat it like a football goal. The field resets but the score has changed.

I’d certainly play that, but it is vulnerable to the same population issues as the existing WvW so I’m not sure it’s solved much yet.

Yeah that’s true, like I said it was just basic idea of what it could be. It would obviously need to be worked out how to deal with the whole time issue. I just think there is way more potential for WvW. I know the way it works now might satisfy a lot of people. But for me, it’s just not very involved and doesn’t encourage small groups or even solo play.

Sure you can roam around scoring kills, but the people doing that are essentially just trying to work their PvP skills outside of the actual PvP mode. They’re not there so much to actually get their server to win. So I think there is room to improve on that and give people who actually enjoy that type of play a reason to do so. Eliminating enemy players or destroying camps actually has an impact.

Odokuro.5049:

But WvW is like a larger more complex Stronghold. You kill guards, you break gates, you kill more guards, you kill the lord, and capture the point.

It is. But the way it is now, it’s literally just running in circles flipping buildings. I’m saying it should be more involved, work to get those building built and make them mean something. And give the match some kind of end game. Killing lords in towers now is basically the same as what I’m saying, but it should have more meaning than just “Oh we lost the tower, guess we have to come back in a few minutes to take it back.”

Sviel.7493:

This sounds less like a battle between players and more like a competition to PvE harder than the other server. It would also be wrecked by coverage gaps.

That said, I don’t want to brush off your feelings of not having any impact. It’s certainly true that a single body in a zerg is just another foot to trample with. Smaller groups (~20) can benefit from strong individual members, but it goes haywire after that.

Personally, I never run with a zerg anymore. We may meet up for a common goal, but I try to stay on the opposite side of the map to ensure that we have eyes everywhere. It’s very easy for me to see the impact I have because things don’t flip when I call them out or drive off enemies.

I think the RTS side of WvW is there to be had, but you’ll have to leave the zerg to find it.

Well isn’t that what WvW is? A mixture of PvE and PvP? The majority of the game mode is killing NPC’s until the zergs run into eachother which. I just think there is room to make it more engaging, that isn’t just running in circles continuously flipping building over and over.

And to your other point, there are ways for smaller groups to do things, true. But that’s also partly an issue. The fact that a group of 6-10 people can easily take a tower alone shows those towers aren’t very secure.

Taking towers should be a well planned event that should require slightly more than a roaming party. While something running resources, scouting/patrolling areas and defending buildings from the enemy team should be something more fit for smaller parties.

Dawdler.8521:

sgeisi.5981:

Killing an enemy lord would knock that borderlands out of the match

So uh… a server just rush the lord on reset, then you got 7 days of 200 man queues to EB?

No, it would not be that simple. Obviously. That’s why Righteous Indignation exists in the game, to control when you can and can’t attack. If they had it at reset for the first 24h or however long, you would have no reason to rush over to other borderlands except to take resources.

If you’ve ever played Age of Empires, something you could do was scout out near the enemy base for their resources nodes and deplete those ones first so the enemy team had to go further to find more.

Way back when WvW was first announced I imagined it being more of an RTS style game mode. Like Age of Empires. It didn’t really turn out to be that at all though, it’s more just a zerg fest, run in circles and flip camps/towers as fast as you can just to have them get flipped back over to the other team, rinse and repeat. Which I’m sure it works for a lot of people, but it really just isn’t fun to me. I feel like I have no impact on anything, I’m just another dot in the blob.

So yesterday I started to wonder, would it work for WvW if it was more like Stronghold. The foundation to make something like this work is already in the game. And even though it may be too far gone to overhaul WvW to work this way, I thought it was an interesting idea anyway.
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So what if it was essentially a week long Stronghold PvP match (or whatever length of time works). At the start of the match everyone has their borderlands which is your castle/lord room that starts from almost nothing but a basic camp site or whatever. It starts at level 0. From there, the players are the starting workers and they need to rush out into the maps to find resources like food, wood, stone, and metal which need to be returned back to your base. This already exists in game with gathering tools.

As you obtain resources you can start upgrading your borderlands, adding new buildings and troops to make your borderlands stronger. This could work on a passive pre-determined system, or a majority voting system to decide which upgrades you want to go for. Maybe you want to add a blacksmith to get cannons built on your walls, or maybe you want to add an archery training area to produce archers that will patrol the area.

Upgrading your borderlands to have camps will allow you to get supplies faster by having closer locations to drop supplies off at, while the other skritt and ogre type camps can give you other bonuses like extra defenses, tunneling systems to travel through, or scavengers that will collect resources for you. But you have to maintain those relationships to have access to them by sharing your resources with them.

The main goal it to build up a strong base to protect your lord. But you also need to protect your other buildings because if they get destroyed by the enemy they need to be rebuilt which will cost resources. And those building are necessary for keeping your borderlands strong.

Killing an enemy lord would knock that borderlands out of the match, and obviously the last one standing is the winner. If knocking a team out of a match isn’t something that sounds like a good idea, maybe you just gain some extra War Score and then the lord respawns with RI so he can’t be killed again for X amount of time.

Which bring me to the next way to win. As you start to obtain upgrades, kill enemy players and or sabotage enemy buildings, you gain War Score. This is pretty much the same thing it is now, just an overall score of everything you’ve done. But you can also use this score to go for an economic win and avoid having to kill an enemy lord, which is essentially the more defensive style but generally takes more effort because you need to obtain more upgrades to earn more score. This score also acts as the tie breaker in a situation where no enemy lord has been killed.

Anyway, that’s the gist of it. Build a strong borderlands, attempt to break into the enemy castle and kill their lord. Just like Stronghold, but on a larger scale.

I feel like this is what WvW should have always been. What does everyone else think?