Guild Wars 2

chemiclord.3978:

Will that placate both sides of their player base?

i think that on one hand, casuals feel betrayed by the “misinterpreted manifesto” (as many of you think), and on the other, real pro-core-nolife players feel that it’s too much grind for a “non mandatory” equipment (not according mho).
both of them seem to be unsatisfied.

all this posts mean that a lot of people still love this game.
but don’t know what % will play in a few months. but i fear not so much.
i hope not so much. because only a massive desertion may rise anet attention.
of course not our little flame wars on the forum, ignored by mods and devs.

@tobias: never intended to insult nobody here. and..“seriously” i can’t find a single line where i insulted anybody. maybe rude or gruff is a proper definition. sorry if you felt insulted by anything.
really really hope that what we write has an influence on the sancta sanctorum, but reason says there is no way of changing the way things go. it’s just a time for bitterness.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne,

There was something in between exotics and legendaries.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

People just weren’t satisfied with purely cosmetic progression.

i loved that skins T.T i worked for it. really enjoyed it. because it was a “free choice”.
the feeling that doing it or just ignoring that event/skin/etc doesn’t give any little impact on combat.

Thedenofsin.7340:

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content……..

However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

true…part of it.
still, the “dominate WvW or be best in fractals” part is, for me and many others, a “game content”.

VOLKON.1290:

They addressed a need some people have and did so brilliantly.

well, did so brilliant that people who asked for a treadmill feel that ascended are too much grind for nothing, and people who asked for horizontaly-only progression feel betrayed because of a new BiS.
yeah. really a brilliant move

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Why is this thread still going on? They already confirmed, it’s not happening!

because any confirmation from anet has IMHO a….questionable trustworthiness.

Behellagh.1468:

mergi.1407:

An accountant, a game dev and a manifesto are shipwrecked on an island.

The manifesto goes “GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill;”

The accountant coughs and at the same time mumbles under his breath “Gem Shop!”

The game dev points to a ship on the horizon and say “Look! We are saved here comes the Titanic!”

Gem Shop isn’t a “trap”, it’s an income model. There was a time when nearly all MMOs were monthly subscriptions. So if not subscription or cash shop what do you suggest? Tip jar?

everyone agrees that a mmo game, as provides new content and servers up, needs money.
ok with pets, minis, powerups, skins and other funny stuff. there’s no real impact on the gameplay.
however, earning because the game frustrates the casual player, forcing them to buy gold and slots, is despicable.

about manifesto: i’m sure it’s online ALSO because it’s still valid.
simply, anet preferred to “ignore” it because of money. that’s economy

and many players are going to “ignore” gw2 because it’s no longer what they wanted to play to. that’s economy as well.
The customer is king.

Vayne.8563:

If you look at the number of times in the “advertising” words like vertical progression were mentioned, you’d find that the game was advertised on dynamic events, personal story, and active combat.

The other stuff was side bar stuff that if it was important to an individual they focused on it to the exclusion of all else. But it wasn’t what the game was advertised on.

side stuff? no grind and no vertical progression?
uhm. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
to me, it seems a main feature they advertised.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet's_MMO_Manifesto_trailer

totally disagree with you Vayne.
it’s not players fault to stick to anet’s word.
it’s anet’s, as they revealed unreliable.

if anet really wants horizontal progress, please remove gear treadmill. remove ascended (or leave it just as skins).
grinding should be only cosmetic. it was your manifesto: respect the pact and your customers.

only then, horizontal growth of character would be possible.
increase maps. create bigger or longer events and quests.
new achievements. new dynamics (not just kill x or gather y.)
encourage group playing and not just zerg or autotarget.
create mounts or vehicles. new weapon classes.
there so much to try

but don t turn to grind and treadmill just as any other nerdy mmo.
it would be an easy way for a short time…and then only carrot on a stick…and finally lots of ragequits.
we re a different kind of players.

mergi.1407:

Judging by the manifesto be thankful Anet do not make pharmaceuticals.

“we found the eternal life elixir”.
and after the first deaths: ask the devs…

well, i hope that, after this bad experience, they’ll try at least to explain what they’re going to do with the game (a new manifesto? a real one)…don’t think i’ll spend any more money or time without knowing what direction it’s taking gw2.
ascended last tier? (and a decent way to acquire them…or better just improve exotics stats to be on a par with ascended) maybe i’llreinstall it.
a patch with new items and even a 90th level?
ultimate ragequit

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I can’t go back to wow neither to gw2 because they’re both “mindless walkthrough to unlock everything”. Or any other mmo.

This is what MMORGP is about: grind, grind and I forgot to mention of course GRIND !

You’re right, that’s exactly the reason.
And gw2 nothing different.

the possible solution?
there’s only one: make ascended much much easier/quick to acquire..and in the future stop gating content behind timesinks/grind/gear/exp.
let people play…and show skill in combat.
if it’s my first login or 1500hrs, should be the same.
make something HARDER and make it require timing/coordination/etc…

THIS would make gw2 really different than other titles.
this would reflect the reason many of us bought gw2 instead of any other mmo.

but obviously it won’t happen.

MrH.2591:

There’s a good Reddit post about this here: http://www.reddit.com/r/guildwars2/comments/3q0d0e/_/

They’ve definitely moved away from the casual friendly philosophy with HoT and that’s a shame, it’s what I and I assume many others found so appealing when compared to other MMOs. I played WoW like a job for 5.5 years and I didn’t want that again, but I missed the genre and GW2 was perfect but not so much any more. Even the story is gated behind masteries.

I’m sure that, when they’ll realize that if people wanted to play another wow clone, wow is still online… and players will just come back to it, so HoT will end losing both gw veterans AND wow-ers, we’ll see a manifesto 2.0 and another 180degrees change of direction.

And I won’t buy HoT or play gw2 until that moment

Mireles Lore.5942:

So what your saying is yes, because ascended armor is not easy to get… by your definition makes it a gear treadmill.
……………………
you cant always have everything here and now.

what i’m saying is exactly what you read. i think it’s sufficiently self-explanatory xD
i’m not just saying “yes”.

ok. some of you is satisfied with this kind of things.
some others don’t.
the fact there was a clear manifesto remains.
true:(for now) there’s no need to change tier X equip every 3months.
still there’s a need to grind to get ascended equipment.
in contrast with the reasons progs gave us to buy their product.
if i knew it from the beginning, i wouldn’t have bought it
(sorry, i’m not english, i’m sure grammar is bad)

Stormcrow.7513:

Its physically impossible for them to development content at a rate to keep everyone perpetually entertained.

of course it’s hard to publish new content every few weeks.
they should have thought it before boasting about they could overcome grinding and treadmill in a single hit.
everybody knows that the easy way is to apply just minor patches and put new stats to new items. they knew it and sold it to people who believed in the scream of no grind.

burnout? maybe it is it.
but i think here is not (only) the problem that people are simply bored from endgame.
it’s the opposite, at least for me: i used to play eagerly gw2. i like living story.
i’d better like minor changes in longer times to little things like city clothes and map little changes… than a brand new ascended equip tier.

i like zergs too.
nobody asks you about your gear-dps-etc.
it’s “democratic”

this post has become pure semantics
with someone trying to justify anet decisions at any cost….others just getting angry about ascended…

as anet introduced it, and made it so hard to acquire, it’s obvious that an advantage had to exist. if not, why bother to create it and not only skins?
some say that it’s not worth grinding so many hours for a little gain.
but still there’s a progress. period.

it’s a waste of time convincing fanboys about it.
they’ll go on and on saying “not mandatory”. “don’t make difference” “only for fractals”
we’re speaking different languages.

manifesto is dead. and anet will do anything will find economically convenient.
the well-known grind and well-known gear progression (because some purists could argue about the meaning of treadmill. the idea behind is the same.)

if don’t like that, the only solution is…another game. maybe not mmo.

but:
to Anet: please change manifesto, or create a new one. and apologize for it.

dear god…please it’s enough about court, promise, illegal, false advertis. …etc

-some of us, such as…me, saw in the manifesto a promise and then now feel betrayed.
-some of you don’t. good for you, of course.

the actual point is: although it was promises or not, does manifesto still apply to the future?
imho, the answer is not.
there will be again gear progression? yes, it could happen.
grind? here it is

so…the only thing to do is: (for “haters”)
ask anet to stop the progression. and also grinding and the mandatory crafting way to get ascended.

and also if devs don t give a kitten to what we write here, i’ll continue to express my opinion: that gw2 has become something i don’t like, and would came back to game if some of these things change.
if you agree, support who has the same ideas

krall and someone else like the game as is it now?
write on the forum that you like it as it is and you could leave the game if it goes backwards.
that’s all.
stop trying to prove wrong others’ preferences just to give authority to what you like in the game.

i think it’s burnout too. 3k hours is definitely too much for nearly everything

nonetheless, the post is quite interesting.
i share many of these thoughts, although played less than a tenth of that time xD

but, IMHO, gw2 greatest issue is the grinding they introduced. it’s not what they promised. that’s all.
and they didn’t try to justify it to angry players.
i could stand bugs, lag, poor storyline…everything.
but the no grinding manifesto is the very reason i bought this game.
this “high treason” drives me crazy. no excuses.
farewell gw2…

1- grind is grind. and if it has any impact on charact. performance, it becomes necessary. nobody likes to be underequipped, also “only” 5-10perc. stats.

manifesto said clearly no grind. end.

however, just to answer:
2- a skilled player in exotic vs skilled in ascended would have different result.
3- you need it if doing fractals. and it’s very useful in wvw.

i think that everybody who likes grinding and treadmill should just say: "well, i like it. "
because for anet there are no excuses, what everybody links from manifesto is quite easy to understand.

“it’s sad that the Entitled players try to justify their complaints over their own misunderstandings of how things are.”
i don0t see any misunderstandings in quoting something. there no contextualization. the meaning is simply what they wrote.

it’s true anet must meet expectations to investors, not to players.
nonetheless, once i know that every single thing they say there is also a minimum risk to be contradicted earlier or later, anet trust is definitely gone.
and also many player go away together with trust.

there are two ways:
-the painful one is play thousands hours, sell mats greens and exo and grind events-bosses like there’s no tomorrow
-the other painful one is gem store.
-and the darkside painful one is gold sellers (that I hope nobody here encourages.)

anyways, pain is the common factor

PopeUrban.2578:

GW2 basically already future proofed against the “hardcore doomsday” scenario be ensuring that when they release content, the vast majority of it is accessible to the widest portion of the player base.

exactly. vast majority and widest portion is not 100% users.
thats the reason of all this flames and whines.

GW2 was born as the no raid no grind no BiS game.
It was sold with this specs, to people like me who desired to do open world events, living story, cosmetic grind.

To me and to this people, the implementation of FOTM AR and ascended had already been a kick in the teeth. So much that many of I knew quitted immediately, while others continued to login and enjoy the other contents, that are enough for a while.

However, now everything about raids, gear requirements to do it sound again like a betrayal. I don’t care if it’s 5% of the total contents of the expansion, still there it is.
Don’t care if anet was forced to do it to keep logged that part of players who require hardcore endgame content and a long, slow progression towards better performance.
It’s something some of us can’t stand at all.

I understand that devs must cover a huge range of users’ desires, but they made unsatisfied exactly those players they sold the game to at the very beginning.

I know: “it was 3years ago” “things change” “they found that people got bored of no progression after few weeks” “you can just skip raids or ascended” “probably you can close a raid naked if you’re very skilled” “there is enough other content to play many hours”.

I don’t care if someone thinks that “casuals don’t deserve endgame” “casuals shoudn’t worry about endgame because even if properly geared, they certaily would lack skills” (I’m not sure of that, indeed. maybe that a “pro” just fears it, that without that shiny weapon, their skill is exactly the same of that dirty noob?) “casuals would whine also if properly geared they’re melted by raid boss” (maybe, but i prefer to blame myself knowing that it’s my fault, and not my gear’s)

Simply, don’t want to feel behind anyone because of gear. Don’t want to work towards a long term objective, if that objective represents a gate to anything.
I chose this game and not any other game because of it.

The bad, bad, bad thing is that is exactly that part they now exclude from endgame who they had addressed with their launch advertising.

If GW2 had been like this from the beginning, me and many other filthy casuals would never have been here whining about what had been promised to them and would have skipped it as any other MMO I skipped in the past, knowing time and grind they need to be played properly.
And yes, gw2 is a bit different, but not enough.
(too tough for me to arrange this thought in words, i apologize for my grammar, I’m not english.)

Umut.5471:

ascended crafting is so easy for a normal, regular player. if you are extremely casual, then you can go for exotics. they don’t even make noticable difference for that gold.

aaaaand.
no. it’s false.
ascended is not EASY. maybe it’s easy for you, if your threshold for casual player lies at 1000-1200h….and/or gemstore.

lordkrall.7241:

But if people only listen to a single video and then ignore all those articles and stuff clarifying things during the YEARS between Manifesto release and game release it IS the players fault.

i didn’t find any other article about gw2 designing guidelines.

and…i think that a direct anet post in the thread or an official new thread could be very interesting.
as “manifesto is not valid because it’s too old”, i’d like to know what they think.
not their explicits projects. just what they think NOW about grind and so on.
i’m afraid i already know what they want to do…and i’m afraid also they won’t say a single word about it, before it’s too late for player to oppose.