Guild Wars 2

Bagel.4598:

AKGeo.6048:

50% of the time weapons pre-patch is bogus.

I was talking about pre-patch. I’ve done maybe 4 runs post-patch, and it feels exactly like pre-patch, in that much more often than not, I get a crappy ring or nothing at all. 6 runs post-patch is not enough to claim that drop rate has changed. Methinks you were expecting the drop rates to be drastically increased. You’re expectedly disappointed.

Ok, 3 months is bogus.
If 30 is the old 50 as they claimed drop rates should be better yes.
Across the board players are reporting worse drops so no, I should have and did expect better.
Out of those 6 runs I received no ring, no weapon, no box.
So in reality I get less karma now and 1 gold more for 45+mins extra work than what I could’ve got elswhere.

3 months is not bogus. I also said that I got two other weapons in the meantime, but I was actively trying for that particular weapon for 3 months. So, you can think once a month with 6 runs per day with a chance of a weapon drop. Granted, these are the two lower chance tiers I’m talking about.

Yes, drops may be worse in general, but your claim of 50% drop rate is ridiculously overblown. 6 runs post-patch without anything more than a pristine relic and some empyrial shards is not enough to complain about.

50% of the time weapons pre-patch is bogus. What you’re saying is that you’ve only done around 40 runs pre-patch to get those 20 weapons. Well, friend, I’ve done quite a bit more than that. About 7 times that in fact, and I have:
2x shields
2x scepters
greatsword
hammer
mace
spear
speargun
axe
shortbow
Staff
Rifle
Warhorn

7+ times your total, half your weapons.

I was talking about pre-patch. I’ve done maybe 4 runs post-patch, and it feels exactly like pre-patch, in that much more often than not, I get a crappy ring or nothing at all. 6 runs post-patch is not enough to claim that drop rate has changed. Methinks you were expecting the drop rates to be drastically increased. You’re expectedly disappointed.

She was a part of it, likely warned the Inquest that the scope of their experimentation was a bad idea, but stayed on board anyway hoping for the best.

The inquest blew up the reactor.

Took me 3 months of trying to get my fractal mace. Three characters doing 28 and 30 dailies. In the meantime I got TWO other weapon drops. Speargun and a shield.

6 30+ dailies isn’t squat.

So the question is should you stop at 19 stacks, or 20 without attacking after that?

Dogger.1867:

Dragus.1853:

Max you’re the type of person I hope I never have to put up with in game. It does seem pretty lame that anet can’t just put in the box mechanic which should be easily modified from a different version, but you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

No, he’s not. A lot of people returned to fractals specifically for skins and to try and obtain this container. It is like working a job and complaining why your paycheck was never sent out.

That’s their choice. They returned to fractals because they thought weapon skins would be falling from the sky and they’d have a full set in a week…I think that’s what you’re describing.

I’d much rather those people not play fractals.

Havana.8625:

AKGeo.6048:

And if you can run all four of those paths in the time it takes you to do one dredge fractal, I don’t want to run fractals with you.

I could say something nasty back, but I won’t. There’s enough of that on these forums. I will say that if those 4 paths sound time consuming to you then I’d like to run them with you and show you how to speedclear them . They are super fast and give 1.26g each! I’d rather teach than have to avoid running something with someone.

I’ll admit, I’m one of those dredge avoiders you speak of. It’s really faster to start over most times than it is to do dredge. I honestly would like to run fractals with you cause I’d like to see how you run through dredge (though I don’t believe it’s as fast as you think) and if any of the other fractals seem long or difficult, I think I can make them seem not that way.

First off…I don’t like speed clearing dungeons. To me, dungeons are a way to relaxingly play some slightly more challenging content with my guildies. We know them, they’re predictable, and we can allocate specific amounts of time to doing what we do. And I DESPISE skipping dungeon trash. I’ve bailed on pugs because they insisted on skipping as much as they possibly could. If you want to speed clear, advertise it, and I won’t join.

Secondly, I don’t have a single issue with any of the fractals seeming long or difficult. Not a one.

voidwater.2064:

Another point:

If the game starts out with the player defeating Cthulhu, the players should not be forced to fight the Joker and his minions for almost a year.

The sense of scale/enormity is disrupted. Either make the villain more epic, or move the story along faster.

I can understand this point, and especially the latter portion.

But you can’t expect Anet to constantly ramp up the scale of the enemies without having a period of, for lack of a better word, lull in the action.

That’s also assuming that Scarlet doesn’t actually possess the abilities to be as much of a threat to the world as an elder dragon, just in a different way, and these abilities have yet to manifest.

So I guess the solution here is not to retcon scarlet, but to give us a big push in the story so we can actually get things moving a little bit. I guess I can make that concession.

But to say that she’s a worthless enemy without knowing the full scope of her threat?

voidwater.2064:

Draco.2806:

AKGeo.6048:

Scarlet’s only advantage is surprise and numbers.

Yes, and four impossible degrees, being a genius, a prodigy, a superhero, a living talk, having a dozen armies at her disposal because she’ll kick their kitten if they don’t obey because she’s so scary and powerful. So her only strength, then, is being God.

I like how AKGeo ignores this point, describing some of the character’s worst qualities.

If I am to fight God, I do not want God to be some clown that constantly spews annoying nonsense. I do not want to see God do petty and childish things like boil Faren in a cauldron. That sort of lame god belongs in a farce or children’s cartoon. I want to fight a mighty being of great majesty.

If Scarlet is not God, then the writers make her far too powerful and talented. Her backstory is awkward. Prodigy at everything? Unlikely. Makes me go o_O. Leading three armies of disparate, wildly xenophobic, very violent races/factions? She has no charisma, gravitas, or even an imposing aura. She is a silly clown that says dumb things, not a drop of leadership material in her character. Unlikely, unless this is a children’s cartoon. Her abilities and social position are qualities of a Mary Sue otherwise. Her role in the story feels unnatural, forced and awkward.

The story has so far consisted of Scarlet trolling Tyria with the minion flavor of the week. The villain’s maturity is on the level of a bad Youtube commenter. It feels like a Super Sentai show, without the awesome giant robots. Minimal exposition and details, no complex character/plot relationships.

It doesn’t matter what they might have planned, so far the storytelling has just been bad. I will judge the future when it arrives.

You seriously think an evil genius who got the drop on everyone by flying under the radar with previously poorly-understood races, all of whom are enemies, enough to create alliances that nobody thought were ever possible, is even close to God, you’ve got a problem.

They’re still in the buildup phase. Have you done the Aetherpath? Probably not, considering most players refuse to do content in this game if it has anything at all to do with Scarlet Briar. If you did, you’d have a few small insights into Scarlet’s general plans, where you and Destiny’s Edge come in, etc. The new fractal gives us insight into the origin of her insanity. I’m sure if there’s anything missing, Anet will fill us in.

I’m also pretty sure that constantly blasting them on the story based on…what? The fact that you don’t get your closure 3 weeks after a villain is introduced? Is going to encourage Anet to try any harder on giving you any quality content. Most of you kittenes are giving the impression that no matter what they give us, you’re going to hate it all the same. Pathetic.

Havana.8625:

Cliffside is no harder than the other fractals and doesn’t need any changes in my opinion. I defend my use of “clearly” in my post. Maybe it’s not clear to everyone but it’s clear to me that Anet didn’t intentionally design one fractal to be four times as long as the others. I don’t remember how dredge runs at lower levels, but I ran a 48 every day for a long time, and dredge is the only thing that makes fractals long and painful. When it doesn’t come up runs are smooth and fast.

Also, loot is no justification. In the time of one dredge fractal completion you can complete HotW1, CoF1, SE1&3 and then sit down and count your money for 15 minutes. The amount you make from dredge is insignificant compared to the time it takes.

Then when you’re done with those dungeons, what next? Is there something else you could be doing while that’s going on?

Runs are smooth and fast compared to dredge BECAUSE prior to the patch, it was pretty simple for groups to actually avoid dredge altogether, and people actually left to avoid doing it. Yes, because it’s long. But it’s also longER because most groups, since they never really play it in the first place, don’t know how.

And if you can run all four of those paths in the time it takes you to do one dredge fractal, I don’t want to run fractals with you.

You can take that all the way down to around 15, which IMO is the maximum amount anyone would, should or COULD attain in a reasonable time frame. Because at the levels where requiring each of your three infused items to have 12-15AR plus 5 on every other piece, you’re probably not going to be surviving much anyway.

People who want +40 to be easily attainable are the ones who don’t want to put in the effort of fully kitting their equipment to ascended and spreading that same AR around.

Protoavis.9107:

AKGeo.6048:

RoRo.8270:

AKGeo.6048:

I’ve been doing dredge since the start of fractals. I’m guessing you guys just got into it. Learning the tricks is always necessary for challenging content such as this one. proper team synergy and utility skills are required. You can’t just barge into it and keyboard-mash your way through, you need to be smart about it. Anet doesn’t need to nerf something that a knowledgeable team can skate through with little trouble. The playerbase needs to become more knowledgeable.

There is nothing challenging about dredge. The issue is the time to beat it is long and you can’t do much especially when move trickle out of the car slowly for 8-12mins

Here’s a suggestion: kill the boss WITH his adds in front of the car. Too hard? Try a level 20.

You keep coming out with all these suggestions and times but never any tactics or relevant knowledge

So you came to a QQ thread looking for tips?

Figure it out for yourself.

Havana.8625:

I never said it was challenging, just four times as long as any of the other fractals. This clearly wasn’t intended when fractals were being designed. I hope Anet fixes the issue soon.

Clearly? “Clearly”? I fail to see where it’s “clear” that this was unintended. Especially since loot drops from this particular fractal are so much higher than in other comparable fractals, such as cliffside.

Honestly, I expected more people to be complaining about cliffside’s insane armor ignoring damage per attack from the chanters at anything over level 28, and endless vulnerability stacking added on top of it. at least in dredge you don’t NEED to stack and break aggro in order to progress.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

54 million gold for a +40 if they were1 copper each,

wow
many gold
much grind
such progression
amaze

Think of the scale that you’re talking about here. +40 for one infusion. That means you gave up two +39’s. So you HAD +78, now you have +40. Along with the 40 you already had from versatiles. So instead of going to fractal level 110, now you’re stuck at level 70. Genius.

Going beyond a +10 is just stupid, especially not knowing if trinkets, amulets, and weapons/armor will be able to be upgraded in the future to allow further +5’s or higher. So figuring out the cost of exorbitantly high AR infusions is pretty much on par with attempting to count grains of sand on a beach while planning how to put them all back together again.

RoRo.8270:

AKGeo.6048:

I’ve been doing dredge since the start of fractals. I’m guessing you guys just got into it. Learning the tricks is always necessary for challenging content such as this one. proper team synergy and utility skills are required. You can’t just barge into it and keyboard-mash your way through, you need to be smart about it. Anet doesn’t need to nerf something that a knowledgeable team can skate through with little trouble. The playerbase needs to become more knowledgeable.

There is nothing challenging about dredge. The issue is the time to beat it is long and you can’t do much especially when move trickle out of the car slowly for 8-12mins

Here’s a suggestion: kill the boss WITH his adds in front of the car. Too hard? Try a level 20.

Max Gladius.6930:

AKGeo.6048

BLAH BLAH BLAH

“No body is arguing the need for a plan, your plan is just stupid and wont work!”

You comment on “I got 50 bags” no one is comparing the Dredge Fractal to Farming, we are saying “by design” it SUCKS!

Actually yes, people are comparing dredge fractal in terms of time spent vs. rewards earned. By design it’s just about right. Dredge have always been a swarming race. Having large amounts of dredge swarming out of the ground at specific moments is indeed the mechanic. They’re mostly ranged, so reflects work on them. They can’t see through stealth, which doesn’t really make sense when it comes to what they are, so that works as well.

The fractal is designed just fine. It’s people who can’t do anything but charge ahead and swing their 100blades that have the problems. People at high level fractals don’t go “awe kitten , dredge”, they go “sweet, dredge!” because of the large amounts of loot drops that come from it.

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.

That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.

Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.

I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.

I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.

And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.

Please quote me where I said that I dislike Scarlet because of the story apart from her involvement in it, and then I might consider taking you seriously. Because I don’t like debating against a strawman argument.

The fact that the story is about her means you dislike the story, because you dislike her.

This isn’t exactly a stretch.

The stretch is that you are taking my saying that a poor character is ruining a story as me saying that the story is bad for reasons other than the character it is based around.

I don’t even know why I didn’t stop responding to you when I originally said I would, because you’re completely illogical and impossible to argue with.

Ironic.

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.

That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.

Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.

I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.

I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.

And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.

Please quote me where I said that I dislike Scarlet because of the story apart from her involvement in it, and then I might consider taking you seriously. Because I don’t like debating against a strawman argument.

The fact that the story is about her means you dislike the story, because you dislike her.

This isn’t exactly a stretch.

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.

That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.

Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.

I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.

I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.

And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.

That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.

Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.

I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Panteri.4073:

Carighan.6758:

Panteri.4073:

I’ve put that set over my Phoenix armor. They better get me my old armor back if the new skin is that bad.

You get a gem refund, as confirmed by the post.

I know that I get a gem refund, but will my old armor be refunded as well? That costed 800 gems for me too. And according to the posts here they reskinned their t3 with this flamekissed armor set. So what if they wont refund old armor, those people will have to pay 119 again for t3?

1. Get refund.
2. Buy Splitters.
3. ?
4. Profit!

He got T3. Rare.
He put it on Exotics.
He re-skinned his T3-skinned exotics with the “upgraded” gem store T3-look.
Reskinned upgraded gem store T3 is going away to a skin that is not at all resembling T3.
He can’t get back his original T3 skins.

Loss. Of 120g. Even with a refund of the gem store skin. Anet should have gone with the lesser of all evils and just settled for allowing those who already bought the skin to keep their skins as-is, maybe with the caveat that it be on a human character.

JMar.3254:

AKGeo.6048:

Did I say pug? Did I say pro? Did I say no problems? In fact, I did account for numerous mistakes and hangups. The times I listed were actually my best times at those specific segments. It’s rare to get a perfect run in, but it averages out to around 30-40 minutes…50 for a pug. Though I do like how you knocked it down to 20 minutes AND pugs.

50 minutes is pretty ridiculous for 1/4 of a dungeon

50 heavy T6 bags, especially ones with the highest probability of a lodestone, is pretty darn good for a full dungeon. Plus the 30s guaranteed from the end chest, possibility of rares and exotics even higher throughout, etc etc etc.

And the fact that the other three could end up taking 10 minutes each, so your arbitrary 50 minutes times 4 implication is inherently flawed.

Arc DLad.2194:

new to fractals -enter fractals level 1 – 30. get 5 +1 infusions on each level run , so 150 +1 AR. get infused ring drops and versitile in fusions +40 – 55ar.
so if you don’t meet the criteria to enter the high level fractals, you really nottrying and just looking for a shortcut.

To clarify this post: 150 +1 = 75 +2, 37 +3, 18 +4, 9 +5, 4 +6, 2 +7 or one +8.

So ideally you’ll have a pair of +7s and the leftover +5 from two steps prior. And some left over at the end. So +19. Add that into the 15 from the versatiles on those three pieces, plus 15 more from trinkets and amulet, +10 from weapons, that’s 59 AR.

Max Gladius.6930:

AKGeo.6048:

Max Gladius.6930:

AKGeo.6048:

Actually, if you were to read the posts above mine, you’d see that the people complaining about it in this thread are complaining about the difficulty, and that difficulty stems from the large numbers of mobs and the intricate mechanics required to progress (relative to other fractals, such as Battleground or underwater). They find it HARD to get past the dredge blocking the door. I find it easy with the right tools. Then they find it hard to kill the champion boss. I find it easy if you know where to stand. And if you want to speed up that fight, then you should figure out how to fight the boss in the middle of the “clown car” segment so you knock down both bars at once. As intended. Then they find it hard to kill the final boss. I find it easy if you have the right timing.

I can complete the dredge fractal at 40+ in a half hour, and come away with 40-50 heavy miner’s bags for my trouble. No, I’m not a special snowflake. Many more can do the same things. Those are the people who possess the capacity to learn and adapt their playstyle to the objectives they face.

Raising the BULL POOP FLAG!!!

I have 247 Prestines, and 88 Shards of Mists that say you are talking out your BUM about 30 mins lvl 40+ Dredge….

Running 20s and 30s on a bunch of characters doesn’t exactly prove anything. But hey, I’ll bite.

3-5 minutes to open the first door. 5 minutes to knock down the big door. 5-10 minutes to kill Rabsovich and his mobs. 5 minutes for a DPS party to kill the final boss. Taking into account less than optimal team buildup, mistakes, lag…it’s not at all unreasonable to do it in 30 minutes.

But your relics and shards don’t really mean much to me. This is after buying and upgrading about 10-15 rings over the last year.

Post a video of your pug team doing just this…..

Also, how on earth, being a “pro” as you are, would you need to upgrade any rings" I upgraded 2 of my 95+… you claim 10-15… Well I bought 4 magic find rings… oh oh and and ….

NOONE CARES!
I was not saying I was better than you, I was stating you are full of kittens stating 30 mins is no problem…
awaiting video of the pug team you had with 20 minute Dredge run

Did I say pug? Did I say pro? Did I say no problems? In fact, I did account for numerous mistakes and hangups. The times I listed were actually my best times at those specific segments. It’s rare to get a perfect run in, but it averages out to around 30-40 minutes…50 for a pug. Though I do like how you knocked it down to 20 minutes AND pugs.

And I sold my rings after I started getting full bank tabs of them, and I didn’t feel like grinding a million dailies for the specific ones I wanted for the builds I was trying out.

So I bought the ones I needed and upgraded them as necessary.

Not that I need to prove anything to someone as emotionally unbalanced as you seem to be.

Max Gladius.6930:

AKGeo.6048:

Dogger.1867:

I had a staff skin drop at 42 today. I was very upset to see that the fractal container promise was not delivered on.

They never stated a fractal level that it would happen on, and they never guaranteed that at that level every fractal weapon drop would be a container. So it’s not that they didn’t deliver on a promise… they simply never made the promise you think they did.

Did you really just say that? I mean really did those words come from your keyboard?

What Dev Team Member have you not give a kitten to today? Either of them???

You should probably settle down and get a check on that emotional outpouring you’re so fond of.

It was already said that there was no hard level stated for the introduction of fractal weapon skins in containers, only that the fractal weapons dropped would be skins instead of weapons requiring a transmutation.

So no, you were NOT promised anything except this update to happen at some time at some higher level fractal. It could be when they raise the cap from 50 to whatever. It could be when they introduce ascended armor. But nothing they said promised you a fractal weapon container in this update or at 1-50 level fractals.

Max Gladius.6930:

AKGeo.6048:

Actually, if you were to read the posts above mine, you’d see that the people complaining about it in this thread are complaining about the difficulty, and that difficulty stems from the large numbers of mobs and the intricate mechanics required to progress (relative to other fractals, such as Battleground or underwater). They find it HARD to get past the dredge blocking the door. I find it easy with the right tools. Then they find it hard to kill the champion boss. I find it easy if you know where to stand. And if you want to speed up that fight, then you should figure out how to fight the boss in the middle of the “clown car” segment so you knock down both bars at once. As intended. Then they find it hard to kill the final boss. I find it easy if you have the right timing.

I can complete the dredge fractal at 40+ in a half hour, and come away with 40-50 heavy miner’s bags for my trouble. No, I’m not a special snowflake. Many more can do the same things. Those are the people who possess the capacity to learn and adapt their playstyle to the objectives they face.

Raising the BULL POOP FLAG!!!

I have 247 Prestines, and 88 Shards of Mists that say you are talking out your BUM about 30 mins lvl 40+ Dredge….

Running 20s and 30s on a bunch of characters doesn’t exactly prove anything. But hey, I’ll bite.

3-5 minutes to open the first door. 5 minutes to knock down the big door. 5-10 minutes to kill Rabsovich and his mobs. 5 minutes for a DPS party to kill the final boss. Taking into account less than optimal team buildup, mistakes, lag…it’s not at all unreasonable to do it in 30 minutes.

But your relics and shards don’t really mean much to me. This is after buying and upgrading about 10-15 rings over the last year.

Because we needed a 9283749826th post saying this.

aimb.4065:

I did one lvl 7 and one lvl 12 and i got only 1 daily chest. Again on a different day i did a lvl 9 and a lvl 12 and i received only one daily chest. From what i understand i should have gotten 2 chests at both occasions. Is this a bug or i have understood something wrong ?

What’s your personal fractal level?

Draco.2806:

A characteristic many see as attractive. Bad example.

Escaped without a trace of sweat or injury after single-handedly man-handling a huge zerg of epic heroes.

Actually this here is the root of problem.

You can’t tell players how to feel. Just because you make out your plot to be as if the player was “caught by surprise”, doesn’t mean he was. In fact, no one was. Scarlet is a predictable disappointment. Her existence is nothing more than annoyance.

And you shouldn’t extrapolate your views on others, either. This is where objectivity comes in.

As a writer, you have to learn to recognize when you like a bad thing despite its flaws, or why you hate a good thing because you can’t help it.

If you can’t do that, you end up writing horrible shlock and gasping in horror as people justifiably pile on to hate it.

“Oh no, no, no – but see, there’s a reason my character should be loved! Here, have more reasons!”

You don’t just try to justify failure. You fix it.

You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over. What might start out slow, or flawed, to some might end up being part of a bigger picture later on where its true self shines. Who knows until it’s over?

Batkitten crazy might be seen as appealing, but it’s far from perfect. Some people might see a scatophile as appealing, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a character flaw by all natural rules.

Nobody in GW2 is an epic hero. That’s the point I think some people are missing about GW2’s story, even when it’s presented front and center at just about every turn: TEAMWORK is key. When you go in solo, that’s when you fail. When your team falls apart, the mission falls apart. Nobody is, kitten eloquently put to me in another thread on here, a “special snowflake”. All characters can fail. Scarlet’s only advantage is surprise and numbers.

Oh, and I solo’d Scarlet on my thief without breaking any more of a sweat.

The idea of being surprised by Scarlet isn’t that you’re surprised that Scarlet was behind it, but it’s what you’re being surprised WITH. While it may at times be fundamentally predictable (“who’s going to team up this time?”, nobody could have predicted before the previews that the Krait and the Nightmare Court would team up. Same with flame legion and dredge. The fact that Scarlet can orchestrate such alliances alone is evidence to her abilities. The fact that they are so fundamentally flawed that a handful of “epic heroes” can put a stop to it means that she’s not perfect at all…that they’re simply failed experiments. She can’t be a Mary Sue if she’s not perfect at what she does.

I’m not extrapolating my views. I’m simply using my real-world experiences to apply a label to the majority of video game players as short-sighted fools who need things spelled out for them, and I am giving Anet the benefit of the doubt that they’re building something that bucks that trend, and forces players to either think about it, or fall behind.

If I’m wrong, then so be it.

Draco.2806:

I have a bad feeling that the writers expected her to be a recurring, never-ending villain because, gosh, how could anyone NOT adore their amazingly perfect super-brainiac Mary Sue?.. Surely people will want to see more and more of her till the end of time…

Perfect? She’s absolutely batty! And as demonstrated at Queen’s Jubilee, she’s far from unstoppable in combat. Just because what she has planned is unexpected and catches players by surprise, and she has the presence of mind to have an escape plan, doesn’t mean she’s flawless or omnipotent in any way. Sometimes you have a villain such as Moriarty (remember that guy? super genius, hand in every pot, hardly revealed at all for the first few DECADES of his existence…arguably one of the greatest villains in all of literature?) who just seems to be everywhere at once and always one step ahead of the protagonist. This is how I see Scarlet.

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

The richness of her character is seen in the speculation of why she’s doing what she’s doing. Then again, I’m the sort of intellectual person who doesn’t need things spelled out for me every step of the way and repeated 5 times an hour.

Aaaaaaaand now you’re attempting to insult my intelligence because of a difference in opinion. This debate is now over.

I just call it how I see it. There’s a reason why most hollywood blockbusters are the intellectually-challenged summer shoot-em-ups. There’s a reason why movies such as Step Brothers and the Hangover are at the top of the comedy popularity ladder. There’s a reason why independent films with high critical acclaim are typically understated at the box office. This reason is that the majority of the audience lacks the attention span or mental capacity to actually think while watching a movie.

The same goes for games. “Character richness” is now defined by how much of their story is told to you up front, not by how much is concealed and revealed later on.

Risingashes.8694:

AKGeo.6048:

I’ve been doing dredge since the start of fractals. I’m guessing you guys just got into it. Learning the tricks is always necessary for challenging content such as this one. proper team synergy and utility skills are required. You can’t just barge into it and keyboard-mash your way through, you need to be smart about it. Anet doesn’t need to nerf something that a knowledgeable team can skate through with little trouble. The playerbase needs to become more knowledgeable.

You’re not a special snowflake, you’re not just so much better than everyone else.

We know how to do it, it just takes twice as long as every other fractal and is not challenging.

It isn’t long because it’s hard, it’s just long.

Actually, if you were to read the posts above mine, you’d see that the people complaining about it in this thread are complaining about the difficulty, and that difficulty stems from the large numbers of mobs and the intricate mechanics required to progress (relative to other fractals, such as Battleground or underwater). They find it HARD to get past the dredge blocking the door. I find it easy with the right tools. Then they find it hard to kill the champion boss. I find it easy if you know where to stand. And if you want to speed up that fight, then you should figure out how to fight the boss in the middle of the “clown car” segment so you knock down both bars at once. As intended. Then they find it hard to kill the final boss. I find it easy if you have the right timing.

I can complete the dredge fractal at 40+ in a half hour, and come away with 40-50 heavy miner’s bags for my trouble. No, I’m not a special snowflake. Many more can do the same things. Those are the people who possess the capacity to learn and adapt their playstyle to the objectives they face.

Black Box.9312:

There’s a reason why saturday morning cartoons are directed toward an audience of children. That type of simplistic writing simply doesn’t appeal to a more mature audience. As for the ‘richness of her character’, where are you seeing such richness? All I see in Scarlet is ‘Hi, I’m bad because it’s fun and I can do anything and everything’. You’re not looking very much into the details, which is fine for you I guess, but not everyone is going to settle for so little depth in a character and a story.

Also, we’re not crying out for a constant revolving door of new villains. We just don’t like that the ONLY one we have isn’t believable as a credible threat as Anet’s writers are trying to portray her as. We’re not bothered by the fact that she has her fingers in everything; we’re bothered by the fact that she just doesn’t fit the role of someone with that kind of leverage in the story as the character she’s been written to be. If they’re going to make one person be behind everything up to this point, make it someone who actually seems like they are capable of being behind everything.

And considering the class of player I see most of the time in GW2, saturday morning cartoons are spot on. And considering I’ve given her a little more credit than saturday morning cartoons….I’ve actually put her on a pedestal along with those seasonal threats in those prime time dramas, such as Dexter’s Ice Truck Killer or Trinity. If you watched Dexter at all, you’ll see that the build-up for those characters was also rather slow and methodical, and even less was revealed about them at the start than Scarlet.

The richness of her character is seen in the speculation of why she’s doing what she’s doing. Then again, I’m the sort of intellectual person who doesn’t need things spelled out for me every step of the way and repeated 5 times an hour. If she does something, I want to know why just like you do, but I actually enjoy trying to piece things together and coming up with my own conclusions. If Anet’s story differs in the end, so be it. As long as it makes sense. And since we haven’t reached the end yet, none of us can pass judgment on it to that effect. It’s the same as the hate that Trahearne gets, which IMO is unfounded. People say he stole the credit. Well, I didn’t see the entirety of Fort Trinity saluting Trahearne running along side me as I entered. In fact, he wasn’t there. I was the center of the story the whole time. I know it, Trahearne knew it, and so did everyone else. Only a few lines throughout the story actually put Trahearne ahead of me, and those were far outshadowed.

I don’t see “hi I’m bad because it’s fun and I can do everything and anything.” I’m seeing a bunch of fingers of a single story where this villain has set up a multi-pronged assault on the world. I might also look at it and see where she’s performing ever-more-elaborate experiments with dragon energies which will finally culminate in a rather epic battle, which might even lead us directly into the next elder dragon conflict looming on the horizon. This fractal update gave us a glimpse into the origins of Scarlet’s story, her mindset, and the circumstances leading her to be an archetypical “Mad Scientist” character. And we all should know that Mad Scientists don’t necessarily need to reveal their entire plot to the audience at the outset of the story. I, for one, like secrets revealed slowly and gradually. Where you see a lack of depth, I see a dark pool of possibilities being illuminated slowly as we descend. Try to take things on a little more than face value, and you might be pleasantly surprised.

I believe her backstory makes her more than capable of being the mastermind behind everything. One does not need to be a fire-breathing hulk of a demigod in order to single-handedly orchestrate a series of unfortunate events. I can see where that can be a problem for some GW1 fans, being as the lynchpin of all of the bad goings-on in that story was a God. But this living story isn’t exactly save-the-world-from-ultimate-destruction levels, either.

I’ve been doing dredge since the start of fractals. I’m guessing you guys just got into it. Learning the tricks is always necessary for challenging content such as this one. proper team synergy and utility skills are required. You can’t just barge into it and keyboard-mash your way through, you need to be smart about it. Anet doesn’t need to nerf something that a knowledgeable team can skate through with little trouble. The playerbase needs to become more knowledgeable.

I’m guessing that he currently only has rings. Upgrading the rings gives you four slots for AR, two can have the +5 infusions you get from the golem, two need to have the chest-dropped agony resist infusions, which you need to either buy from the TP (5g for 5AR, each), or craft-upgrade with artificer. The details are in the patch notes on that front.

I strongly suggest getting additional equipment to put agony resistance into in the meantime, such as a backpiece and amulet. If you do guild missions, you can get ascended earrings for +5 each as well. Finally, crafting ascended weapons can get you another +10 for a set, either two slots on a two-hander or one slot for each one-handed weapon. Two-handers are cheaper to craft, as it costs the same for one of those as for a one-handed weapon, which you need two of.

I’d still like to see the source for this scale. Because if that’s the case, then Agony has been scaled UP in higher fractals as opposed to DOWN in lower levels. So where does that discrepancy lie? 30? If I did a 30 before the update, I could survive just fine with 35AR. 40 meant I needed 45AR. Is that increased to 50 or 55 now?

Black Box.9312:

AKGeo.6048:

Draco.2806:

Think about it: when the height of what you can do with your villains is for them to be bland and forgettable, and any character you try to give them makes them outright hated, what does it say?

It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job. It might be popular nowadays to give antihero characters that the audience like more than the protagonists, but does that mean every villain needs to be likeable?

Again, it isn’t the dislike itself that’s the problem, it’s that it’s for all the wrong reasons. We don’t hate her because she’s evil, we hate her because she’s an awfully written one-dimensional character that is portrayed as being such a powerful figure that acts like the annoying class clown and never does anything that actually feels consequential. Oh, we stopped her latest evil scheme? That’s okay, because it wasn’t actually relevant to her plans and was just her playing around, turning all of the world’s armies and factions into her puppets simply because she can.

The fact is that many of us feel like the current story that’s been written for us is horribly weak because the only link between all of these otherwise unrelated events is this flimsy excuse of an arch-villain that feels about as imposing as a chihuahua in broad daylight.

And how do you know she’s as powerful as you make her out to be? Because she controls Aetherblade pirates? Because she controls clockwork creatures which probably do all of her enforcing for her? She’s INSANE. The richness of her character is what makes her insane, and this latest installment of her story might give us some insight into that process.

If we could dispose of every villain during the first event we see him/her in, every new villain that shows up simply adds to the neverending chain of inconsequential baddies. Scarlet’s important because she’s got her fingers in so much of the living story…it adds scope to her reach and increases the buildup to the inevitable climax, which IS COMING.

The “Scarlet Did It” thing going around the forums lately is, in my eyes, more of a boon to her character than a detriment. It turns the whole living story idea into an ongoing struggle that can’t just be resolved in a day, just to repeat it with a new face next week.

I’d hate it if we had a revolving door of baddies every 2 weeks, personally. The current idea of it feels more like a good drama television series with continuity from one week to the next rather than a single 2 hour movie, or a tv comedy with little to no continuity. And just because some people want Harry Potter rather than Dexter, doesn’t mean it’s better, and definitely doesn’t make Dexter equal to Scooby Doo.

There needs to be a buildup to the climax. And I’m fine with the buildup they’re giving us. You might be able to argue that Scarlet is more akin to Inspector Gadget’s Dr. Claw than the Trinity killer, but as far as I’m concerned, I had just as much fun watching Inspector Gadget as I did watching Dexter. If not more.

eekzie.5640:

AKGeo.6048:

And who the hell needs a +15 agony infusion at level 50, when you can get 40AR with weapon, two rings, two earrings, backpiece and amulet not even infused? And 55AR quite easily with only 160 +1 infusions? Not to mention those who already had their 55AR total prior to the patch and grandfathered +5 infusions in their infused rings. Those guys can farm up to level 50 until they raise the cap and odds are they’ll have ascended armor by then, which adds another potential 30 AGONY RESISTANCE for 75 relics per piece.

You guys are making mountains out of molehills, here. You don’t need to get maximum AR right off the bat, especially when minimum required AR currently can be had stupid easy.

Short attention spans…I keep saying it. Instantaneous gratification is not a worthwhile trait to have.

And with Level 50 needing around 65 – 70 AR it’s actually making a lot of sense how it currently works.

3x +10 AR infusion will give you 70 AR. And it’s quite affordable in it’s current state.

Who says you need 70AR in a level 50? That makes no sense, you should be able to survive in a level 50 with 55AR. Source on this?

Dogger.1867:

I had a staff skin drop at 42 today. I was very upset to see that the fractal container promise was not delivered on.

They never stated a fractal level that it would happen on, and they never guaranteed that at that level every fractal weapon drop would be a container. So it’s not that they didn’t deliver on a promise… they simply never made the promise you think they did.

eekzie.5640:

AKGeo.6048:

Why would doing a level 20 without AR before the change be any easier than the same thing after the change, especially when Agony scaling has been softened a little bit pre-30? And you still don’t have to deal with instabilities?

And mob damage has been reduced across the board?

I don’t get some people. Play the game the same way you did before, and see for yourself if the changes made it better or worse. Don’t get your opinions of the game off of a website with jaded and angry kids bashing every change made because it makes them have to relearn some aspect of the game all over again, screwing up their daily grind routine.

It’s harder (if not impossible) to dodge the agony in some of the new fractals.
Previously you could pretty much avoid getting hit by it all the way up to the maw.
Now you can’t. So yes, it used to be easier with that perspective.

Impossible? There isn’t a single non-boss fractal where it’s impossible to dodge or avoid the agony attack aside from the 30+ instabilities which automatically apply it. Please, tell me which of the three new fractals it’s impossible to avoid the agony.

All I know is that now I’m feeling a little gipped by selling off my dozens of infused ring drops because I ran out of room in my bank slots, and had no characters at the time to use them on. I could always just buy another ring and upgrade it with my mists essence materials if I wanted to change my build. Now I need to pay 5g for a +5 after buying said ring and upgrading it. Oh well…it’s still super easy to gain AR by playing fractals.

I’m still wondering where these figures for cost of thermocatalytic reagents came from…you don’t use a full 14s stack of 10 for one upgrade. It’s one reagent..1.4s per upgrade.

Eekzie, you’re forgetting to take into account that you still need that 250 ecto to upgrade the backpiece. So it’s 75g + 51g to get 55AR. EDIT: I get what you’re saying with the +7 and +8 infusion on the rings to make up for the backpiece’s ecto requirement.

But you’re also assuming that you’re buying every single +1 infusion, that the +1 infusions will stay at 25 silver each (which they obviously won’t considering they’ve dropped 10s in ONE DAY), and that you won’t end up getting +2 or higher infusions from fractal chests as you play it.

I have zero remorse for someone who has done no fractals at all since they were introduced, or who have the skill levels necessary for a level 50 (where that 55AR is actually necessary) without actually collecting or crafting +5 inherent infused rings and backpieces on their characters already.

As for brand new players, they need to work their way up to level 50. That’s a minimum of 200 fractal chests. A minimum of 200 +1 infusions. 40 +1 infusions makes two +5’s. 10x +5’s, 5 +6’s, or 2 7’s and one 6. You’re already quite a bit higher potentially than those of us who worked our way up to 55AR and much higher level fractals than the current level 50 cap, doing the dungeon for a year.

So veteran fractalers got a boost by grandfathering in that +5 infusion, but newer fractalers get a boost by not having wasted time accumulating these infusions.

I’d say that the veteran players have a total leg-up on the newer players when it comes to available agony resistance (that total cost has to be multiplied by the number of characters one wants to be able to take along on a high level run), but that’s fine. That’s what Veteran tends to do. I’d hate it if after a year of playing fractals I have to start at the same level as a brand new player. Perks for loyalty.

Draco.2806:

AKGeo.6048:

It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job.

Uh, no.

Scarlet isn’t a bad character, she’s a bad character.

When people say they hate Scarlet, what they really mean is that they hate whoever was in charge of coming up with this garbage. This isn’t hate directed at the character, but at the game creators. Just as it was with Trahearne (who isn’t even meant to be a villain).

Some people just like to hate anything that comes along in a game where they’ve already made up their minds that it wasn’t what they were expecting based on a bunch of community speculation.

I’m willing to bet that a good majority of Scarlet haters wouldn’t hate her if the game itself had been as big and as convoluted a mess as what the forums were making it out to be before it was even released.

Because that’s what they wanted.

They hate the game, so they hate whatever the game provides, regardless of how much they were crying about wanting EXACTLY THAT only months before.

Tell me: if you were to improve Scarlet’s story as we’ve seen it so far, how would you do it?

Why would doing a level 20 without AR before the change be any easier than the same thing after the change, especially when Agony scaling has been softened a little bit pre-30? And you still don’t have to deal with instabilities?

And mob damage has been reduced across the board?

I don’t get some people. Play the game the same way you did before, and see for yourself if the changes made it better or worse. Don’t get your opinions of the game off of a website with jaded and angry kids bashing every change made because it makes them have to relearn some aspect of the game all over again, screwing up their daily grind routine.

People who want to go to the top of the leaderboards are the ones who will have to pay out the expenditures required. You can’t have everything you want for free, you know.

kiwituatara.6053:

AKGeo.6048:

Excalibur.9748:

it kinda seems to me like fractal is an end-game gold sink.

How so?

Do you expect to wipe enough in a single fractal shard to damage your entire armor set 3 times? If not, then the single +1 AR infusion you get from that chest at the minimum will more than make up for the cost of whatever armor you get damaged throughout the run.

If anything, Fractals just gave its players a massive boost in earning potential from non-fractal players who wish to jump in the fray by buying their agony resistance directly.

It is a gold sink actually.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony_Resistance
+13 agony infusions will cost you 61g on Thermocatalytic Reagents alone.
+15 agony infusions will cost you 735g on Thermocatalytic Reagents alone.

+15 agony infusions will require 32768x +1 agony infusions

And who the hell needs a +15 agony infusion at level 50, when you can get 40AR with weapon, two rings, two earrings, backpiece and amulet not even infused? And 55AR quite easily with only 160 +1 infusions? Not to mention those who already had their 55AR total prior to the patch and grandfathered +5 infusions in their infused rings. Those guys can farm up to level 50 until they raise the cap and odds are they’ll have ascended armor by then, which adds another potential 30 AGONY RESISTANCE for 75 relics per piece.

You guys are making mountains out of molehills, here. You don’t need to get maximum AR right off the bat, especially when minimum required AR currently can be had stupid easy.

Short attention spans…I keep saying it. Instantaneous gratification is not a worthwhile trait to have.

Faux.1937:

Ive ran over 200+ fractals and I dont even have a half the skins, I have multi characters in the 20’s and 30’s and my main fractal character is 49 and Ive done about 30-40 level 40+

I truly feel they should be skins and not weapons.

Im ok with it being at level 10 now, b.c we can only have 1 chance to get that weapon a day now, no more doing multi daily runs for a chance.

this, every day. Since dailies are account bound now, you can’t just run 8 alts through level 28, 38 and 48 to maximize your chances of a skin. You get 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 if you made it that far. (41 if you didn’t). Hard-fast 5 chances per day per account as opposed to 3*(number of characters at 40+ personal level), which on my account would have been thief 20+ and 30+, mesmer 20, 30 and 40+, guardian 20,. 30 and 40+, warrior 20+ every single day if I decided to grind it out. It’s also easy because sometimes you were able to jump into groups with someone who DC’d or left the group partway or even most of the way through, making for a practically free daily.

They tried to get it to stop by
1: giving us a set selection of fractals that only happen as the first one
2: giving us a meta achievement category for each of the fractals, including the old ones, to encourage “playing it live” otherwise you wouldn’t get those achievements at all if you rolled for the easy ones every time.

Either way, pugs will be pugs. Go with a group of people you know who also want to run it truly random, since it doesn’t even matter anymore. Rolling swamp as first was simply there to minimize the chances of getting the three longest fractals in a row. Now you’re guaranteed a long fractal, and a medium fractal, along with your short fractal. So going for swamp simply minimizes your risk of having the longest of the short ones first. You can still get dredge, or you can get aetherblade retreat which can be quite fast on its own.

klesk.1790:

Ever since Fractals came out it created problems and a lot of players left this game because of fractals.

Everything related with fractals…. it always creates problems.

How many players play level 30~50 fractals? probably 0.0005% of all gw2 community.

When will Anet realize ppl dont like fractals…….

My conclusion is Fractals must be gone forever…Fractals will never be gw2 it never was and it never will be past and future~ period.It must be gone……

The best contents of this game was “The Tower of Nightmares”….it was by far the best MMORPG contents ive ever played. that is wat i call GW2.

So, .0005% of active players play high level fractals, and all of a sudden it’s the be-all end-all of the game, enough to drive players away for good?

Seriously? So I guess all the remaining players supplying the economy with items, materials and gold in amounts required to stabilize prices on a regular basis aren’t actually PLAYING the rest of the game, right?

If there’s a problem with the game driving players away, it’s not fractals. Especially considering it’s gotten one major update in A YEAR.

Astralporing.1957:

AKGeo.6048:

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Is that quote correct though?
Today I did a lvl 20 fractal run and a lvl 14 one, yet only the first one gave me a daily chest reward. How come?

1-10
11-20
21-30
31-40
41-50

That’s why.

I still want to know for sure if fractal weapons come from level 10 dailies or not.

level 10? most likely not (because it is the same daily as level 1, after all).
They do come from 11+ daily, though. A person in my group got a fractal shortbow on level 11 today.

Well remember a post about a dev saying that fractal weapons will be available from level 10 and up.

This isn’t completely without precedent…level 10 is still the first level you see agony, and this goes for Max Gladius’s comment. Agony increases on the highest level of a tier. Before this change, 10 was the only instance of this happening. Now all the levels act the same. So it makes more sense now than it used to, and I distinctly recall saying that it would make more sense if it were the way it is NOW.

Level 50 fractals were never meant for the casual player to complete without significant effort.

Level 5 fractals on the other hand, are.

Perspective.

You can currently get 40 agony resistance without having to farm for the secondary AR infusions. Which you get pretty easily on their own. By the time you get enough fractals under your belt where you’d need more than 40AR, you’ll have enough +1’s to craft the remainder of what you lack, and then some. In fact, by the time you get to personal rank 10 where you first see agony at all, you’ll have at the very minimum 40 +1 infusions, which are good for two +5’s already.

If a casual wishes to play at a higher level, they’d better be prepared to put in the effort required to earn that spot.