Guild Wars 2

Jack Daniels.5270:

I don’t think win/lose is as important as the feeling of the game. Matchmaking should leave you a feeling that you almost won this one, if only would have done a little better, not a feeling of wow we are getting destroyed, where is my team why is nobody doing something. True, there are good games but the bad ones outnumber them heavily.

I’d say that in ruby and diamond, about 60% of my matches have been within 50-100 points, 10% by 10-20 points, and the remaining 30% by 250 or more. Blowouts have only occurred when there are DC’s in my games.

The further I progress the more I’ve felt like players know what they’re doing and the matches are actually competitive on a skill level. I find players swap classes more to counter comps, rotate, and know when to take secondary objectives to provide an advantage.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

It is a better system toward that goal, true, but it has important issues to address. If it really seek to be a ladder it should, IMHO, change a few things:

1) You can always loose pips. No more safe guards as it give too much traction to grinders to climb higher than they are at that point in the pvp process. This leads to problem once you reach ruby where grinders are paired with low mmr legit ruby who would otherwise still climb but are now kittened.

2) Stop attributing individual rating based on team results unless teams are stable. It would also be very important to reach a far better balance in builds too because as it is a build is way too important in success and it really do not make you skillful to play meta. If all builds were equivalent, or all much closer in viability because getting more of one thing would equally sacrifice another, it would not be as much an issue.

3) Do not pair new players with experienced players no matter their MMR. It is as dumb as using #of deaths to decide if someone is bad or good. A new player has 0 death and I have a kitten load of them. My deaths are not a sign of me being bad. It’s a sign of me having experienced a lot of learning opportunities. I’m a better player because of them and because I more than likely played riskier builds than most in competition.

My 2 cents…

1) – I partially agree. Though unfortunately they have already promised that any player can work towards the legendary backpiece. Changing safety areas in Amber/Emerald/Sapphire will only cause a huge uproar from the player base demanding the backpiece. This would have to wait until year 2 period.

2) – Though I do not know much about code and or coding a complex system for PvP, there is likely no accurate way to do this in a team based game, especially when the game modes are 5v5.

3) – MMR should have been reset for all players, MMR should start from a lower number and work upwards. A new player should never be give the assumed MMR of an average player, this hurts veteran players at this MMR even though the new players MMR is more volatile.

The big thing to look at is that, while we are a single player and this is a team based competition, most considerations apply first and foremost to balancing the system for a team rather than a single player. It is my honest opinion that the developers have done their best to reach a middle grounds for everyone as they’ve moved forward with the league system.

StickerHappy.8052:

@OP

Care to explain this?

- Low tier ruby vs high tier sapphire (within 15 pips)
- Second week of the season so placement is volatile and discrepancies may or may not be high in matchups still
- Why shouldn’t a full team of Ruby players beat a full team of sapphire players?
- Did any of the players on the opposing team just give up and sit in base

Sorry if this disappoints you, but the system is working as it was explained to us.

Urejt.5648:

i see many primordial legends in my ruby team so sth must be up.

They could be there for several reasons…

- Started late in the season
- Don’t play much
- Only logging for daily ach towards backpiece
- Hunting for class win achs towards backpiece
- Got carried due to amber shopping/system abuse
- Abused stronghold early last season

Honestly, the Primordial Legend title from last season doesn’t mean nearly as much as it should.

Galandil.9641:

I’m not making “assumptions”. I just read and understood what has been stated by Anet in this blog post:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/

If you want to continue to discuss the argument, please first read the blog post and understand it. There’re no assumptions here, the problem regarding match making is explained perfectly there. If you fail to understand it, it’s your problem, not mine.

Ironic you can’t make an argument without linking exactly what I’ve explained to players in multiple threads so far, but I’ll spell it out just for you. And here’s a bonus, I won’t even look at the link!

- Players get matched in a team based on their MMR being close to teammates
- Teams then get matched based on a Pip range of +/- 15 (match-ups can cross divisions, and will also be based upon the highest ranked member in a party)
- Team A has higher MMR in an amber game than Team B
- Team A wins the amber game due to having better players regardless of the margin between the teams
- Team A progresses until out of Team B’s pip range
- Team A will never again play Team B unless they return to the same +/- 15 pip range
- This process is repeated for the same team and all other teams
- As the season progresses, the amount of allotted time will allow the system to best spread out players based on skill within that time restriction
- This is how a competitive ladder works; mind you this a TEAM game, having solo Q or being solely mechanically inclined does not mean everything, or entitle you to free progress.

Not too hard was it?

This system is infinitely better at determining player skill than season 1 was, however there are two things that could be improved upon: preseason placement and resetting all player MMR (while starting at a low vaule working up rather than starting at the middle).

Galandil.9641:

AegisFLCL.7623:

It’s a competitive ladder.

Your team is grouped by your MMR, which you share closely with your teammates. Enemy teams are based on pip range and have nothing to do with your MMR directly. Better players have a higher chance of winning, and subsequently should have a better MMR. As the season progresses players will be fleshed out by skill far more accurately than S1, and the ladder as a whole is a better representation of skill.

Stop ignoring the logic behind the system if you want to argue why or why not a competitive game ladder does or doesn’t work.

p.s. +1 to Branny

The one ignoring logic it’s you. Stop being so obtuse by switching cause and effect.

Stop making assumptions that the system is: luck based, rng, purposely stacking, doing anything in its’ power to keep you or any of these other players from the progress you’re entitled to.

When you or anyone else makes these statements based on assumption, they are ones ignoring logic and fact. Not a single user has provided player wide data supporting their claim that MM is “broken”. I see plenty of good solo Q players in legendary and diamond, and I’ve seen plenty of bad “primordial legend players” stuck in sapphire and ruby.

Galandil.9641:

brannigan.9831:

Yes, its totally fair to have all the good players on one side if we want league placement to be meaningful.

This is one of the most stupid argument I’ve ever read. A good player is good because he/she rises to the top without a match maker who favours him by stacking the games.

If he/she can’t “carry” an averaged MMR team, then he/she’s not that good. At least, that’s the “good” players argument.

And yet, they whined and protested during S1 for being teamed with lower than average players, but in S2 everything’s magically good, cause they don’t have to carry and/or lose games due to a stacking algorithm.

You’re at Trump-level logic, truly.

It’s a competitive ladder.

Your team is grouped by your MMR, which you share closely with your teammates. Enemy teams are based on pip range and have nothing to do with your MMR directly. Better players have a higher chance of winning, and subsequently should have a better MMR. As the season progresses players will be fleshed out by skill far more accurately than S1, and the ladder as a whole is a better representation of skill.

Stop ignoring the logic behind the system if you want to argue why or why not a competitive game ladder does or doesn’t work.

p.s. +1 to Branny

danizmax.4329:

The the original poster: Can you go 50 soloq games just so you can see how fun it is? Thanks!

I definitely don’t deserve to be Legendary or Diamond, but then I again I also don’t deserve to be matched with/against players that run in small circles looking up. The matchmaking system IS broken and its programmers ARE clueless.

As for Quoted post. I second everything you said and it is probably a post that sums up the whole forum front page of the PVP section.

My first 55 (went 45/55 for wins) games this season were exclusively solo Q. I think I ended up somewhere in the last tier of sapphire, I cannot remember specifically. Longest win streak was 9. I’ve only had a single loss streak of 3. Some days I will occasionally go +1/-1 for 4-5 games, I then either take a break or eventually will rack up a winstreak.

I’ve duo’d since hitting ruby with my close friend and we’re now in diamond. Matches are both harder (more balanced in terms of skill) and last longer; some matches I’ve had against 5 man teams will run the timer out before either team scores high enough. The majority of my losses are to solo or duo Q enemy teams. I’ve maintained a rough w/l ratio of 75% so far. I play 5-10 games every other or every 3rd day.

I still believe the majority of people posting on the forums are stuck due to personal reasons. This system is a million times better at determining skill in correlation to rank than S1 ever had a hope to.

Cyanon.1928:

Oh yes they are, every time I post something they dont like, My post get deleted with the excuse that (potentially inflamatory post) lol

I posted a suggestion to the pvp players to stop buying from the gem store until ANET starts solving the core problems of the pvp system and it was deleted by mods in less than 24h when it reached hundreds of views ……

They do read… they are just pretending that their arrogant silence is better than proper communication with the player base.

Most post that get removed are handled more by indirect moderators than devs. If it’s something nasty or painting them in a bad light, don’t expect any of the ideas from that thread/post to get anywhere near the ear’s of a dev.

Jourdelune.7456:

It’s what happen in a system where GRIND is better than SKILL.

Anyone can GRIND to Legendary. They just need more time than the others.

Tell that to the people moaning about being stuck in Emerald and Sapphire, I dare you. There are plenty of people who that no matter how many games they will play, won’t get out of ruby period.

Who doesn’t love the age of the interwebs and entitlement, ahhhh so glorious.

shagwell.1349:

It should never happen that a group queues against solo players in the first place. Not 2-3 people and not full groups. group and solo queue should always be fully separated.

Roughly 75% of the time I’m queued against premades larger than 3 I’ve won. I’m sorry but without knowing player base size, demanding that we get solo Q would likely be detrimental to the system.

Player’s that would like to group in 2 or 3 would have horrendous wait times, and the system would likely not be able to find suitable match-ups within the pip range further increasing wait time or pip/skill discrepancies.

The evidence provided in this thread very poorly supports the OP’s stance, as matches were close, OP appears to be progressing at a very steady rate despite “bad MM”, and according to everyone grouping/premades are the way to farm an easy legendary badge…

Though I do not have the data to give anyone as concrete evidence, the reason we don’t have Solo Q is more than likely due to what I’ve mentioned and that it would be detrimental to the health and population of PvP.

Exedore.6320:

AegisFLCL.7623:

So lemme get this straight.

According to some threads Emerald is cursed.

According to others Sapphire is cursed.

Now Ruby is cursed?

Yup! As players break out of the “curse” they move up to the next division and it starts again. You’ll see the same complaint for Diamond in a week or so too.

This is my guess at what is happening, especially in Ruby:
The mediocre players who get boosted or get lucky move up a division. However, they’ll lose more than win and end up at the bottom. When other players who are progressing enter that division, the player pool within a few pips of them has a disproportionate number of these mediocre players. They end up being chosen for as teammates and drag you down, making it hard to get out of that first division. Once you get through the second division or so, it’s smooth sailing until you go up a tier and the process begins again.

Sounds to me like the system is appropriately spreading players the more time progresses.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Putting ppl new to the game or new to pvp, asking how to target putting with someone like me (not pro but experienced though) doesnt make any sense.

I literally had ppl who didnt know how to target ppl or didnt see the point in doing so. THIS HAPPENS IN kittenING RUBY

This game is making me rage so much just because Anet lets randoms/new pvp’ers with exp players. This is so kittened up I believe Anet matchmaking dev is just a sadastic human being.

Well that’s what happens when ANET wants to dangle a Legendary carrot in front of the PvE players locked behind PvP combat. Only other comments on improvements would be a preason ladder to assign and spread players out, and a complete MMR reset.

In any competitive ladder you will always have cases in which matches will be lopsided in lower divisions/ranks.

So lemme get this straight.

According to some threads Emerald is cursed.

According to others Sapphire is cursed.

Now Ruby is cursed?

I see plenty of people progressing, better yet in my PvP lobby last night there were more Diamond players hanging around than Ruby players; most likely due to our longer queue times.

I had a lot closer matches throughout Ruby, Diamond matches are even closer. Average game time went from about 8 mins to 10-11 minutes. I believe the system is more accurately spreading out players by skill than we think, but without data from Anet no one can truly say and it’s all subjective.

ghoust.8591:

1.Yes.
Some play better some average.
Do you play many classes and what are they?
2.No, Q i E using for some skills instead for rotating, somehow I prefer to stand in place because i got carrots on the legs.
Do you rotate and how?
If you’d be so kind, so explained to everyone, thank you in advance.
3.Yes i defend my players if they move and help me and defend them if they can survive longer than 2 seconds.
Do you defend your players? If your answer is yes, please tell me how you defend players from DH traps into which persistently jump and how to defend squishy class of 2/3 Reaper who have stability while your players are trying to fight against them in the point?
4.Yes i change traits, rune and sigils before the match on the basis of the opposing team.
Do you changing and how you change on the class basis in to opposing team?
5.Yes i am raging and do not waste time that could be could be used to return because there is no return, they spend my time. Yes i writing on chat, because when i write in chat they still do not know what they’re doing, what you think how would be if i dont write(with hope next match when i get them in team they will be better) .

Would you rage if your players left you to bleed out under his legs, or players who do not know how to count, or on players who put their points ahead of team points, or toys that are attacking the beast when their help is badly needed in order to cap point, or at least remain neutral and at the same time beast kill them?
5.No i dont have nothing against.
Those people are from flesh and blood and can be beaten (many of them not communicate on ts).
Do you register alone or with friends?
6.There are three reasons why anyone would defend MM which of the three you:
- Programmer on false account
- You are sponsored by the Gw2
- You’re just an average player who is aware of it and wants to have as long is posible a winning sequence that has now because if MM bicome normal again you will be farmed of the better players and you will start lose what will not be fun for you like this is

1) I play Thief, Druid, Necro and Rev (hardly play the last two, mostly because I play better as a thief regardless).

2) Rotating isn’t always an exact method. First pay attention to your map, kitten how much mobility they have as a team, do not throw yourself to the body count at mid when you can help far/home for a quick kill if you have good mobility. Regroup more often than not, retreat/pay attention to your teammates positioning. Generally the idea is to break up the enemy team as much as possible creating more favorable matches when they may have a comp that flat out counters you.

3) Heal, CC chasers, put up a reflect in front of them, pop aoe boons if you can (prot aegis). You can’t really do anything about people dying to traps aside from trying to calmly tell them to pay attention to positioning. In ruby/diamond so far I’ve noticed almost no one dies to a DH, at the very least almost everyone can avoid traps unless stomping.

4) Yes. If available being invuls and prot utility skills against direct dmg. If going against a high condi team, run generosity sigil, bring as much condi removal as you can, run a class that can aoe condi cleanse etc. And when you can’t do this on a class, that class is likely not the best choice for the match-up so swap to another class; multi-classing is the best!

Some examples. If im on druid against direct damage teams I’ll take SoS, sometimes Guard, trait for Stealth and super speed on cele form to kite/ re-position, make sure to blast in smokescale field to peel for myself, save gap closers/knockbacks after important skills like engi hammer 3, UA and phase traversal, steal/infiltrators strike.

Against condi, ill run shout runes, swap out SoS for a glyph run the glyph heal/condi removal trait and lingering light for blinds/more healing. Don’t move when you have high stacks of agony in a 1v1, cancel autos/attacking with high stacks of confusion, make sure to cleanse poison before I heal (can’t always avoid this), dodge clones on mesmers, and again just kite as best I can. Don’t worry about giving up the point for 30 secs if it means you can win the fight and recap the point.

5) I only communicate at the beginning of the match in terms of typing; I greet my teammates, try and come up with a loose strategy on what we should split/run in terms of traits and go from there. Throughout the match I will draw on the map as necessary and ping often.

6) I’m not a programmer, I’m not sponsored, and I’m an above average player. I don’t blame anything on luck or the system. I lose, have loss streaks, but I progress. I take breaks when I need to, adjust my builds when I see an issue, or adjust my play style when I’m tilting or playing poorly.

A general comment, I saw one of users complaining in another thread about MM again and they didnt have a single stunbreak on their bar and useless signets on their druid. I have more and more faith that the system is better when people like this are the ones complaining they’re stuck in “MMR hell”.

Kayberz.5346:

Another note
To the players saying “my current league position doesnt reflect where i should be” ok….no duh. We are only like a 3rd of the way through the season. If you hit a brick wall, STOP PLAYING. Why are you people trying to rush so fast?
If you really believe in this “bad mmr spiral” then why are you DELIBERATELY throwing yourselves into it when your on a losing streak? Every time i start getting bad matches over and over i STOP. No point queueing into the same bad matchups, and theres no point rushing directly to your final standing in the league only to have hour long queues when all your trying to do is your daily matches.
Ill say it again, all i see is entitlement and a want for instant gratification

+1

Probably another thing that should’ve been mentioned, stop queuing past the 4th loss. Bad matchups, you’re frustrated and not playing well, not focused, lots of stuff goes into it. I always take a break if I get a few bad matches in a row.

Your team lost, therefor you lose a pip, the logic behind that is perfect.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Have you read what I’ve said? I ask because your reply here is as if I’ve said nothing.

What I’ve said directly correlates and explains why players may be experiencing such bad loss streaks.

antichecker.1675:

AegisFLCL.7623:

gloflop.3510:

snip

I would consider myself as an average player. My current rank does not reflect my abilities!

What is your current rank/tier? If you’re sapphire t3-4, and you state you are an average player, you’re right in the middle of the ladder.

I’m not directing this at you, but so many players are expecting handouts based on how they placed in the previous season; THAT IS AN AWFUL representation of your skill. Players we’re randomly awarded, even 3 pips for losses? How is that even the slightest means of accurate progression. Ranking from the previous season means squat, especially when 50% of the “primordial legend” titled players I see cannot play to save their lives.

You must be blind to the actuall problem or maybe you just ignore it on purpose, because you enjoy to get free wins at the start of the season. Nobody here ever complained that he didn’t reach high tiers, most ppl complained that they lose every game in 100 matches. And myself included. I started out 0 – 20 so I stoped soloq. Played in a team and all of a sudden I win most games and going towars saphire. How is it possible if I am that bad? The problem is that the matchmaking system is plain kittened, not matching teams of equal strengths. Why even have an mmr if you dont use it. MMR was never designed just to match a team of same strength. It has it’s origins in chess to rank players AGAINST each other and depending on the difference how much each one can win or lose. Now I know that team games are a more complex issue than 1 vs 1 games. I even go that far to acuse GW2 to match stronger teams against weaker ones on purpose, so the better ones can advance faster, in thinking that the weak ones will even it out when the strong ones are out of reach. This will just not work out and will only lead to people stop playing.
And this is the reason why the current system is broken and really bad compared to any other game with a ranked team competitive part.

People like you refuse to see how the system this season is supposed to work; we do need some form of preseason though.

The Season lasts approximately 2 months, and we are currently in the 2nd week which is barely a third of the way through. A team with higher MMR will get matched against a team with lower MMR NO MATTER WHAT. Eventually the team with higher MMR will move clear of the other team/players pip range and will no longer be matched against one another. The longer the season goes on the more spread out players will be, and lower tier/rank players will eventually progress to their approximate skill level.

I’ve had two blow-out matches throughout my 20 or so ruby games. As I’ve progressed, every game has gotten harder/closer even if it’s solo vs premade, games remain close. Game’s I lose or that other’s lose are almost always due to the reason’s in my original post. While the majority blame the system, few try to change how they play and or make constructive feedback.

This is a competitive ladder, do not expect handouts. And I apologize if player’s are only here for the backpack, but that has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with the players.

Unless specifically stated otherwise, we have no clue what is or is not being looked at. The same goes for any solution that may already be in the works or planning that is being done. Whether you think it has to do with communication or not, they are connected, and therefor relevant.

velmeister.4187:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Unless the backpiece, or future rewards, are only rewarded to top players, the system will remain.

I proposed that in season 1 and was flamed because ANET wants to make PvP popular and increase participation. If that’s the case, and rightfully so, then ANET needs to think about starting a pre-season and add a barrier to league entry.

I think at a minimum people should be r80 to participate in a league. This will give impetus to lot of people to prepare and play instead of roll and play.

+1

Ranked needs some form of preseason desperately.

You have to be incredibly skilled and know a good deal about all classes/pvp to exceed as a warrior right now; warrior can only really be helpful when you’re in a fully coordinated team, however most classes will still outperform warrior.

As for necro and scrapper, both excel in the current meta.

Necro is fantastic at mid for team fights with heavy aoe pressure, and can tank a considerable amount of punishment when you have a support druid/tempest with you.

Scrapper is a great all around point defender and assaulter for 1v1, 1v2, and occasionally 1v3 depending on everyone’s skill.

For both necro and scrapper you can start with builds at the following link:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

While you will need to swap traits/runes/sigils for every fight depending on comps this is a great place to start if you haven’t already.

I’d also recommend learning at least 2 classes to the same level of proficiency, and stress picking 3 to be best. Go with support (tesmpest/druid), bruiser (scrapper/druid), and high mobility assaulter (rev/mesmer).

Learn the important tells to dodge/interrupt if you haven’t already. Make sure you communicate with your team at the beginning of the match. Learn to select targets or follow focus targets. Peel for teammates. Do your best to rotate out of bad match-ups (experience and play time will help best with this).

Feel free to ask for more specifics, but I definitely don’t have all the answers.

Mogar.9216:

A lot of people, me included have hit a wall and can’t improve. We are stuck with 20-30% win rate or worse at our div/tier.
So lets say your match making is perfect, that means we are stuck because our mmr is too low for the div/tier we are in. The first 3 divs you can’t lose tiers. That means once you are in a tier where you shouldn’t be you are stuck more or less forever because you’ll be always on the losing side of matches due to lower than avg mmr, with no wins and no chance to improve your mmr.
Let us lose tiers drop down to where we belong and get into 50/50 win loss range and a chance to improve our mmr and move back up again.

Won’t happen. This goes against their core philosophy of that every player, no matter what skill, would be able to create the legendary back piece through shear grinding. Unless the backpiece, or future rewards, are only rewarded to top players, the system will remain.

Cyanon.1928:

I’ll start by saying that ANET developers need to actually play the game so they can see by themselves what are the problems.

They have more data than we ever will without even first playing the game.

I admit communication is poor lately, but doesn’t mean they’re not doing anything. This game is unfortunately larger than just sPVP, and it seems devs as far as resources are concerned, are far and few in between as of late.

gloflop.3510:

snip

I would consider myself as an average player. My current rank does not reflect my abilities!

What is your current rank/tier? If you’re sapphire t3-4, and you state you are an average player, you’re right in the middle of the ladder.

I’m not directing this at you, but so many players are expecting handouts based on how they placed in the previous season; THAT IS AN AWFUL representation of your skill. Players we’re randomly awarded, even 3 pips for losses? How is that even the slightest means of accurate progression. Ranking from the previous season means squat, especially when 50% of the “primordial legend” titled players I see cannot play to save their lives.

What class are you playing?

velmeister.4187:

AegisFLCL.7623:

First off this is a serious post!

In the end, I believe a lot of these reasons are why so many players are stuck where they are. Yes there may be a small handful of players stuck due to unfortunate events, but just because you’re a skilled 1v1 player, it doesn’t mean a thing if you can’t support your team and make an attempt to actively do all of the things I’ve mentioned above.

I actually agree to most of what you have said. But, I also believe the system is flawed. You can use this kind of system in a qualifying season to create a bracket of players and to weed out the bad by giving them chance to improve by playing unranked during a league season with some benefits to progress towards their achievements in their own pace.

In an ideal world, a world where theory-crafting is the law, it’s a great system on paper. My achievements are my own. If I am bothered with who else is also achieving other than me, I need to set my priorities straight. This system has alienated a LOT of people from sPvP. There are a lot of people that I personally know who will not even try playing this game mode again. To some, that’s good news. To ANET, is that really good news?

I somewhat agree with the bolded statement. This system is remarkably better than the one that existed for S1 however, we need a preseason placement ladder which will award and spread the players out at the beginning of the season for more consistently competitive matches.

To most of the other people posting here, the majority of you all are still complaining, not being constructive, and likely refusing to try some of the things mentioned.

Concerning solo/duo vs premades so far, my experience throughout ruby is that I have a higher w/l ratio against the premade teams because most of them are subpar players carried by voice com and comps. Most premade matches are actually far more interesting and competitive than solo/duo q match-ups. I will say that bonus pip compensation for wins/losses against full 5 man premades may or may not deserve some looking at by devs.

This is a TEAM game, no matter how much you believe or are the better player, it unfortunately won’t always make the difference, we need to accept that.

First off this is a serious post and I’m not trying to belittle anyone or tell them they’re trash. I’ve seen all the threads over the past two weeks and I think the issue is a little less prominent than you believe it to be, namely because it’s the same 30 or 40 people posting/creating new threads over and over.

The small portion of data that Salamander collected was actually pretty useful too. 50% of players reported being in the 50th percentile area of the ladder, which sounds accurate…

To get to the point though, for those players wanting to improve there are definitely some questions I want to stress that you ask yourself:

- Do you multi class?

If you do not, or cannot efficiently, grinding through leagues with one class is not going to work. Period!

As I’ve progressed through Ruby this season, I’ve noticed that almost every match is won due to swapping to counter a team comp. If we are not bringing the right tools to the job, why should we expect to win.

- Do you/can you rotate?

Again, if you cannot rotate, you will always lose to a premade because of coordination. Premades are 100% beatable, you must first bring the proper classes, traits, utilities, and rotate to be able to counter them.

I’ve played against multiple 5/4man premades as well as a few ESL teams and won due to the reasons above; heck they’ve been super stressful and or annoying due to some wicked strong team comps, but it is very possible. My win rate remains around 70% for this season (62% in ranked over all time).

- Do you peel?

Quite simple, teammates will often get pressured, rather than trying to focus someone take the time to peel for that player it can pay off big time when the enemy team no longer has a single offensive cd.

- Do you swap traits/runes/sigils?

Again this is very similar to the first question, but will often be a key reason as to why you will lose if you don’t. Normally most teams will have coordinated teams as of late, put their focus into heavy flat damage + cc, or heavy aoe/condis + cc. Most classes have a way to alleviate both types of pressure through trait, rune, and sigil combinations. If you refuse to take the time to make adjustments it’s going to hurt your play as well as your teammates.

- Do you rage at players and waste time/possible comebacks by typing half the match?

Simply don’t do it, it’d be wasting everyone’s time. Sure we don’t always get the best teammates but there is really no point that will come of berating other players.

- Do you complain about premades and then don’t put in the effort to queue with one or two more players?

Solo Q isn’t coming back, at the very least in this season. Please put some time and effort into befriending a good teammate or enemy you may see in a game. It really isn’t that hard and as everyone likes to mention, it automatically makes you win games (100% not true). Create a post looking for teammates, be proactive!

In the end, I believe a lot of these reasons are why so many players are stuck where they are. Yes there may be a small handful of players stuck due to unfortunate events, but just because you’re a skilled 1v1 player, it doesn’t mean a thing if you can’t support your team and make an attempt to actively do all of the things I’ve mentioned above.

So far all of my matches in ruby, against 4 to 5 man premades as well, have all been won due to rotations on our part. There is nothing wrong with someone pushing far; it’s often better than giving them free 5 points every time you re-spawn only to get slaughtered mid.

Congrats! Wish I had had more time to play last season, stuck on the daily participation.

Power.2957:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Oh, I should have done the timegated dailies earlier then. :p

Yea the timegated dailies are cancer. Kicking myself for not paying them any attention for like the first 2 weeks and some random days last season -_-

P.S. did anyone actually read that guy’s essay a few posts up?

He’s being quite the sour lemon in everyone’s threads…

Novuake.2691:

AegisFLCL.7623:

You’re within the 15 pip range, both teams have a group of 4, the point difference is less than 50, and overall it looks like a close match.

This is really a poor example of wanting to have Solo Q, and sort of proves that the new system is providing better match-ups regardless of partied match-ups. There is more to how the system works than selfishly wanting solo Q, and it seems Evan is making an honest effort to find a middle grounds.

In terms of the matching system, this is honestly the only part of what Anet is currently doing that I’ll defend. Most everything else, not so much…

Its not a poor example if its unfun for that one poor soul on each side trying not to get kittened by the enemy team, OBVIOUSLY its balanced matchup, but FUN is the point, and that FUN is being ruined by 4 man premade.

I wouldn’t go telling yourself that FUN is the object of ranked queue. Generally people are in the mindset to win above everything else, so players may yell at others in chat. Some players may refuse to listen and do what they think is best. Some players may refuse to switch off a class they find FUN, and because you can’t counter the enemy comp effectively now you aren’t having FUN.

Does any of that sound FUN?

Ranked is about winning first and foremost. And losing doesn’t make PvP not fun, you yourself just admitted it was a fair match-up. On the flip side I’ve had obnoxiously hard matches, won, and absolutely hated it. FUN is more a side effect, and winning the object.

Entirely subjective I guess. I’ve had fun as a solo Q’er against full premades. Even as duo Q match against an ESL team we played the other night. It was easily the most fun I’ve ever had.

Finally a good thread that isn’t complaining about match-making.

What I’ve noticed as I progressed further into sapphire and now that I’m halfway through ruby, is that more and more players run condi builds, and without good coordination or players making sacrifices to counter it, it’s impossible to outlive.

I’m honestly surprised more people don’t run condi mesmer, confusion and chill are 110% out of control still.

You’re within the 15 pip range, both teams have a group of 4, the point difference is less than 50, and overall it looks like a close match.

This is really a poor example of wanting to have Solo Q, and sort of proves that the new system is providing better match-ups regardless of partied match-ups. There is more to how the system works than selfishly wanting solo Q, and it seems Evan is making an honest effort to find a middle grounds.

In terms of the matching system, this is honestly the only part of what Anet is currently doing that I’ll defend. Most everything else, not so much…

Thiefz.3695:

Sardath.8524:

Kayberz.5346:

Most of the people complaining about the matchmaking seem to want everone to have their own personal reward track to legendary. The arguments like “the pros should have to face other pros from the start” or “good players shouldnt be farming win streaks at the expense of bad players” are just bullkitten.
The system isnt pairing rubys against ambers, its matching you with people in the same division, if your losing consistently in low divisions, im sorry, but your not as good as you think you are.
What do you expect? For the system to match bad players against other bad players in their own seperate “baddie mmr” matchmaking all the way to legendary while ACTUAL good players instead have to face ACTUAL good players to get to legendary?
The league divisions does not scale according to your PERSONAL mmr, its the same for everyone. The players in each respective division will be there because they won against the players in the previous divisions, its not like anet is just giving “pros” free pips when they queue, the people still have to PLAY the match and WIN, and they do, against players in their same division.
If your still struggling to get out of amber/emerald at this point, its not just “bad matchmaking luck” its probably you.

This guy gets it.

Incorrect. New players are given an average rated MMR so if you are Average you will be matched with new players. So matchmaking is throwing average players and new players together on a team (because they share the same MMR) and then getting placed against teams that are +/- 15 pips. So, the issue at the moment is that the average team MMR is not actually pairing people with the same MMR as explained by Evan. So the expectation that you, as an average MMR player, will be matched with like minded or experienced PvP’ers is not true. So the expectations that people are being matched with like minded pvp’ers is mistaken. Now, all those average people have to adapt to a lower team rating than they were used to. I would say that it’s a valid complaint. Now that average players have a handicap, you add on that you are facing worse or better opponents is further different than unranked or season one matchmaking and it makes for more salt.

What I have been reading across all these forum posts is that people with higher and top MMR don’t see that the issues they have last season of carrying lower tiered players to legend is impacting average players this season. If you didn’t like having to carry lower MMR people last season then you should have some sympathy for average players this season who have to do the same thing.

There’s one issue you’re overlooking. Let’s say that the best case scenario is that everyone’s MMR had been reset at the start of season 2. We would still have this SAME exact scenario of players with different skill levels being matched on the same team, whether or not the ladder would balance out quicker is possibly the only difference.

A solution I was thinking about while driving home from work would be to essentially enforce a 1v1 Q for preason. Every player starts at the same MMR. You lose a match and your MMR goes down, you now get matched against a player who just lost and vice versa if you win. It essentially acts as a tournament style placement system. It could be out of 10 or 20 matches. At the end of these “placement” matches you will be placed on teams that exactly match your w/l ratio from preason season (+/- 1 game to likely ensure queue times become an issue).

This will solve the aging debate on who is actually responsible for your lost match. The issue with any competitive team game is that it will never be based on your skill alone, and as a collective, any algorithms are not nearly effective or accurate enough to single out and reward only your skill level.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Oh grouping 5 years old and matching them against 60 years old is an accurate representation of the skills/ intelligence of those two group because you cant have a dumb 60 years. And also the 5 years will be so thrilled getting stomped by 80 40 25 and 18 years old.

I am afraid you are suffering from a case of amnesia since all you are doing is avoiding my question/answers and jumping to others. You have yet to respond my first question. And I’ll rest my case, there is no need to argue against someone who is suffering from one sidedNess or Cleary refuse to see the bigger picture.

When you start a season in which players of all skill levels will be matched against one another, good players will be matched against bad players, this is exactly the example I gave you. As the season progresses the ladder will flush out and players will settle into their skill level. There’s really not much else to it, you’re simply complaining and arguing to complain and argue.

Fivedawgs.4267:

What are those confounding factors?? And I know corrolation don’t also prove causation but still.

Using your example again, since this is life. You have at least or 5 section, so it’s not black and white. So what are the chance of 5 years old against adolescent or young adult or adult or mid forties??? Are you seeing the picture I am painting? ? One side is always favored against another. And as life goes on, the 5 year old might ended accomplishing NOTHING , since life in this case is only two month long.

And you just called the MM system IRRELEVANT, so the system on which the entirely league is build is IRRELEVANT? ?

Well, there is nothing to be said.

Stop being thick headed and take some time to comprehend what I posted. Every conclusion you came to after ignoring to read most of what I posted is wrong; your desire to argue seems to outweigh making sense of what I posted.

No.

I’ve seen and personally had comeback wins from scenarios like this, while rare it does happen. A big issue however is a player who just decides to AFK because they don’t think it’s worth playing the match. Simply put that is nothing but poor sportsmanship and attitude, and currently ANET does nothing to punish this sort of behavior.

What we need before aggressive changes such as this, is a working report system for AFK players that ANET will actually punish said reported players through. There is zero moderation in game and it shows.

Fivedawgs.4267:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Seyiwaji.4082:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Have you read this thread?? What else are you looking for?? It’s written in black and white below, they group player with similar MMR together and match them against other player with MMR different from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first

So you can get 9 vs 5 or 5 vs 9, or 5 vs 5 instead of getting 5 vs 5 all the time, which lol,Dota or any competitive gane out there has.

LIE may be you should read again

This means that you’ll generally get paired with and against players in your division that are of similar skill levels.

And how do you get pair with player with and against players in your divison that are similar level skills when everyone start in amber? Enlighten me.

To dumb it down for you, how will Anet be able to make 5 vs 5 when everyone 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 Starr in the same division, and 5 are group together with 5 and match against X???
I’ll wait.

Edit: in order to avoid this back and forth you do release that throughout the league you have a 10% chance of having a 5 vs 5, right??

Without knowing the mmr of all the players in the game you have no way to figure out the percent chance to win. Better players will account for more influence on the match whereas worse players will likely be a detriment. You cannot flat out say a single player accounts for 10% because skill levels are different. Stop digging yourself further into a whole you cannot factually argue out of.

So, do you agree with me then? You said “Better player account more influence on the match whereas worse players will be a detriment”. Eh I AGREEE, and since MMR doesn’t always equate to skills, using your own words, you d agree with me that a goo player with a kittenty MMR, has a 75% chance of losing his game since the system will always match him with other low MMR players.

It’s true I don’t know the MMR range of every players, but my point still stand; few are those who get 5 vs 5 games. I mean how hard is it to get?? And as the time goes by? A Low MMR player will get out of amber/ emerald only to get farm by the people above him,why?? Because the system will group folks above him, due to their MMR, and match those folks against him. And guess who will be this low player teammates? ?

Any system which matches folks against X is faulty, that’s the take home point here.

No I’m not agreeing or supporting what you said. I’m simply pointing out how you can not apply blanket statistics when there are too many unknown factors and then try and weasel it through as a fact to support your agenda.

Teams are made based on similar MMR, while the two teams MMR may differ from one to the next, that fact is irrelevant as the system is designed for more skilled players (higher MMR) to progress through ranks faster. You, myself, and no one else has not a clue what their actual MMR is, therefor you cannot use MMR to argue anything but the teammates you have on your team.

Let’s put it this way…

Let’s play Life. Team 1 is full of 5 year olds, low MMR players, or in this case players with very little life experience. Team 2 is full of 80 year olds, high MMR players, or in this case players with a lot of life experience. They play a match consisting of how to get through school, work at a job, pay taxes, handle relationships, and so on.

It is quite obvious that team 2 will be more successful and therefor win, advancing on in the ladder. Team 2 has now scored 16 pips and team 1 has 0, these two teams will never face each other again unless the pip differential drops to 15 or below. As a result team 1 now has a better chance of playing a team closer to their MMR level. This process will repeat until player skill has been distributed throughout the ladder as it should…

I do not see what is so hard to understand about how the new system works. It is far more accurate at determining a distribution of players based on skill than the first season system was. I do have two comments however, the first being that the pip differential should be less than 15, maybe 10 or 8 when matching teams, and also that we need a placement system at the beginning of the season.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Seyiwaji.4082:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Have you read this thread?? What else are you looking for?? It’s written in black and white below, they group player with similar MMR together and match them against other player with MMR different from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first

So you can get 9 vs 5 or 5 vs 9, or 5 vs 5 instead of getting 5 vs 5 all the time, which lol,Dota or any competitive gane out there has.

LIE may be you should read again

This means that you’ll generally get paired with and against players in your division that are of similar skill levels.

And how do you get pair with player with and against players in your divison that are similar level skills when everyone start in amber? Enlighten me.

To dumb it down for you, how will Anet be able to make 5 vs 5 when everyone 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 Starr in the same division, and 5 are group together with 5 and match against X???
I’ll wait.

Edit: in order to avoid this back and forth you do release that throughout the league you have a 10% chance of having a 5 vs 5, right??

Without knowing the mmr of all the players in the game you have no way to figure out the percent chance to win. Better players will account for more influence on the match whereas worse players will likely be a detriment. You cannot flat out say a single player accounts for 10% because skill levels are different. Stop digging yourself further into a whole you cannot factually argue out of.

Fivedawgs.4267:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Anyone on either side of this argument is simply speculating. We have only a statement as to how match making was “supposed” to work for this season, and not a single concrete fact or data actually proving something (that isn’t simply user testimony).

There are two major problems I see:

- Many player’s were carried, abused group queue, or abused Stronghold comps to progress to a rank/tier in which they don’t belong in (I’ve seen some god awful “primordial legend players” in my ruby games). This essentially can create the illusion that player’s on average think they’re much better than they truly are.

- The second issue is that there is no form of placement matching or system. This is mandatory for a healthy pvp population, both low end and high. Players hate to be farmed, and generally I’ve seen most above average players bored out of their mind farming blowout games.

I completely understand why player’s are unhappy, but since hitting ruby games are progressively getting both harder and much more enjoyable to play; my ruby games this season are tougher than games I had in diamond and legendary in S1. I really do believe this system functions better, but due to the two issues above a lot of players are unhappy.

It is also sad to see so many complaint threads about match making, and only seeing one thread on occasion asking for help on how to improve. I think a lot of players should stop and think about what may be causing these losing streaks rather than coming to the forums and generally posting non cohesive complaints about match making with no collective data to prove a thing.

Have you read this thread?? What else are you looking for?? It’s written in black and white below, they group player with similar MMR together and match them against other player with MMR different from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first

So you can get 9 vs 5 or 5 vs 9, or 5 vs 5 instead of getting 5 vs 5 all the time, which lol,Dota or any competitive gane out there has.

Anet stated the S2 system was designed for better player’s to progress quicker. It has been 6 days, not everyone has 8 hours a day to play, and not all of the top players will have progressed out of low ranks/tiers.

At the same time you try to make an example out of the maybe 20-30 threads in the PvP section complaining about match making, as if it somehow represents the entire PvP player base. Mind you at the very least I can assume there are 5000-10000 players who have attempted PvP, you do the math on the percent that those 20-30 (maybe 100 reports when including the fact that people are posting in other players threads) out of 5000 or 10000 players. That doesn’t even break 2% (100/5000 best case) of the total population with such a low assumption on player base size!!!! 2%!

Not a single person but Anet has enough data to say whether or not the current system is working better. That’s not to say it doesn’t have it’s faults; which in my opinion the biggest offender here is not having a form of placement matching similar to League.

Unless Anet decides to come forward and give us that data, everything is speculation. 100 players complaining means nothing in the grand scheme, sorry but it is true.

A good tempest can survive a 1v2 whekittenmilar skill levels, but honestly nothing can survive a 1v3 without having to run. A lot of players refuse to focus targets, chain cc, or swap to pressure which can create the illusion that some classes are more tanky then they really are.

The better and more balanced your matches get, the more it will seem that everyone is more “bunky”, when I believe it’s more due to player skill matching out.

The one thing to note, scrappers are WAY to tanky for the damage they put out; still need defenses to be nerfed

Anyone on either side of this argument is simply speculating. We have only a statement as to how match making was “supposed” to work for this season, and not a single concrete fact or data actually proving something (that isn’t simply user testimony).

There are two major problems I see:

- Many player’s were carried, abused group queue, or abused Stronghold comps to progress to a rank/tier in which they don’t belong in (I’ve seen some god awful “primordial legend players” in my ruby games). This essentially can create the illusion that player’s on average think they’re much better than they truly are.

- The second issue is that there is no form of placement matching or system. This is mandatory for a healthy pvp population, both low end and high. Players hate to be farmed, and generally I’ve seen most above average players bored out of their mind farming blowout games.

I completely understand why player’s are unhappy, but since hitting ruby games are progressively getting both harder and much more enjoyable to play; my ruby games this season are tougher than games I had in diamond and legendary in S1. I really do believe this system functions better, but due to the two issues above a lot of players are unhappy.

It is also sad to see so many complaint threads about match making, and only seeing one thread on occasion asking for help on how to improve. I think a lot of players should stop and think about what may be causing these losing streaks rather than coming to the forums and generally posting non cohesive complaints about match making with no collective data to prove a thing.

Esonver.8470:

AegisFLCL.7623:

…

The problem is that Anet is so desperate to kitten up the Solo Q player so much that they made a rule that doesn’t even change a flying kitten thing about that solo Q problem.
Literally nothing.

I solo and duo Q, and while openers in matches normally go to the premades, a lot of them end up zerging and eventually get out rotated. I’ve had more losses against non partied teams than I have against partied teams.

In emerald and amber I steamrolled, in sapphire my games became a lot closer, and halfway through ruby I’ve had some fantastic matches that are 3-4 point differences. The system is working better than season 1, the issue is there are no form of placement matches and this is going to devastate the low end pvp population; it is ZERO fun to be farmed!

Esonver.8470:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Uh, you guys did incredibly well against them. I don’t see the issue…

Hello, OP is in red team.

I can see that, 67 points is hardly a huge point discrepancy; against a grouped team at that. I’ve had several wins that were 500+ to 0. The game was likely close, he’s just complaining about being matched against a group when it’s been stated this is possible for 1v4.

I legit just played an ESL team and we went the full 15 mins with a score of 347 to 254, and managed to win. I really don’t see the issue here…

Most exciting match I’ve ever played, and easily one of the best pvp experiences I’ve had.

Uh, you guys did incredibly well against them. I don’t see the issue…

Regen, boon access, and hammer skills still need to be toned down on scrapper that’s the biggest issue I see.

Spend some time working on rotations and map awareness, while there are a lot of blowout matches in amber/emerald still, a lot of it is due to poor rotations from what I’ve seen.

Do you adjust your traits/sigils/runes at the beginning of matches? This is also incredibly helpful. Please get into the habit of doing so if you don’t already as this can easily curb weaknesses to flat dmg or condis, etc etc…

Do you actively swap classes when your comp/enemy comp calls for it? Almost all of my losses have been from people who refuse to switch off of necro when we have 3/4 and they’re playing into double scrapper/tons of cc. I tell them they’re going to get chained mid and insta gibbed, and I look at my map and what do you know, they’re all down within seconds of the match starting. Being able to multi class 2-3 classes well is VERY helpful.

Identify your weaknesses, and spend some time thinking about how you can play better or avoid making the same mistakes. Good luck!

I’m currently swapping out between Thief and Druid, just about to hit ruby, and I’ve actually noticed it’s much easier to carry on Thief than my druid atm (77% w/l ratio so far). While it’s still a problem that you’re forced into being a +1 hit and run, thief is SO valuable when your team has pressure and you choose to play it against the right comps.

I think too many Thief players are too impatient when it comes to the play style. Don’t blow CD’s so quickly, bait dodges, and swap the proper traits when comps call for it.

I know it’ll probably get a bit worse once I get into late ruby and diamond, but that’s because anet just doesn’t want to take scrapper defense down to where it should be. I think Thief is actually pretty useful in the right hands. Will comment again later down the road.

It’s not about being confusing, that’s just the excuse being made for the very small amount of resources they have in the studio. It’s quite obvious with how poor community response is on both ends, and the fact there are so few and also poor balance change decisions being made.

TLDR, not enough designers, too many internal projects —→ stressful design studio. I doubt I could spend a minute or two in there even if I were entirely dedicated to the game.

Goddess Lexy.7148:

Ray Patrick.7843:

Hey all – I’ve checked everyone in this thread and they should be unstuck. I will monitor this thread and other threads throughout the day. Please post if you are stuck.

Thanks,
Ray

Please help! I’m not stuck in a match, but I have the pvp Map Selection stuck on my screen!

Same issue, stuck with the map selection screen and cannot enter a match or queue again.

Same bug, cant select a pvp map, leave queue anything…

Relogged, exited the game, restarted my pc and im still stuck with the selection for maps window.