Guild Wars 2

UndeadRufus.6832:

Soulwatcher.2604:

Undead if you want to see a dead f2p game look no further then D3! Like I said just because a game is free doesn’t mean people will keep playing;

You said games start to die in a month without catering to a list of nebulously-defined demands. I asked what you base this on, and you gave the “example” of SWTOR (which we can dismiss for my stated reasons).

You said to look at the level 1-70 areas to see the ghost town GW2 is becoming. I replied that I have spent nearly all of my in-game time in those areas, and I don’t observe any such thing.

So now you’re invoking D3? Really?

I never said people would play a game just because it’s free. Nobody here has said that, as far as I can recall. Why do you find it necessary to continue countering a position that no one has actually taken?

Actually, D3 is the perfect example of the fate a game has when the developers decide to invoke how its playerbase should play the game.

Not only was the drop rates crap on their own, but the developers decided that they wanted their playerbase to kill the rare/elite packs instead of bosses in order to get decent loot. Packs that had random affixes and were insanely hard,oftenly one shotting people.

Then the playerbase abandoned the game. A lot of the playerbase. And they never returned, even when they reduced the difficulty of these packs.

See the pattern? Some mistakes are better fixed back, otherwise they are not reversed easily, if at all.

thieves and mesmers* even, kitten popping up only 1/4 of the time.

I’ve played everything but a greatsword build by the way.

Hammer has too low range and the self-roots are plain kitten
Mace/Board and Sword/Board work ok-ish, nothing extrordinary though. Good and reliable cc for a few seconds with the right utility skills though, I give it that.
Greatsword is the current cookie cutter, but all it takes is avoiding the bull’s charge or a stun breaker and it becomes a flop.

By the way, since every class has weaknesses, please point out the weaknesses of warriors and mesmers when facing a warrior. In fact, point out their weaknesses when facing anything.

lagrangeify.5641:

Nope, not guilty as charged, I’m probably a lowest common denominator gamer, someone who just gets on with it, and if I dislike something enough I just move on.

What gets on my wick is every single counter-argument on both sides of an argument being reduced to name calling. But that’s MMO forums for you, why have a debate when you can just pull at the hair of your opponent instead?

Maybe it’s just my age and a little wisdom that’s gathered on this old rolling stone, but I realised a while ago that when MMOs are run like a democracy it becomes an exercise in polishing a kitten I choose instead to work with what I’m given. Some things are worth having a debate about, ANet’s decision to employ DR in an effort to combat bots that literally sit in a single area for hours on end seems reasonable to me, especially considering that it’s so easy for a non-bot like me to entirely circumvent with some good old fashioned circulating around the maps.

Far be it for me to suggest some of you try a different approach when you’d evidently prefer to keep chucking fuel on the fire and cause a conflagration. Carry on.

So, because you don’t have the urge to complain ,everyone who does obviously is a tosser kid, right?

First of all, the DR system is not something that was dictated upon the playerbase and the playerbase has every right to reach to something they don’t like.

Working with what you are given? Sure, sounds fun, unless the game decides to eventually give you nothing in return for your work, which is exactly what the diminishing returns do.

If you don’t want bots, then have a dedicated team on banning bot accounts. The DR system is like bombing an entire skyskrapper in order to dispose of a few select people that are inside.

What’s going on with being unable to view the replies of a thread every couple replies anyway…once again I click the thread and nothing than the title shows up…does anyone know if there is a fix to it?

Doing a survey wouldn’t be bad if you list things that you are actually able of doing.

Like giving options pretty much, it’s simple, something like:

“Ok, we plan on working on these 3 things in the future and have them implemented sooner or later. We want the playerbase to vote which one they find most important so that we put our focus on that first.”

Sounds simple enough.

lagrangeify.5641:

“Trust me on this once the damage has been done and a player quits 99% of the time they are not coming back!”

Oh I don’t know, WoW’s chock full of resolute quitters, I’ve met plenty of them.

Seriously though, why does it matter to you that people out there don’t agree with your sentiment that the mechanic is horrible? I’ve always been curious about that, it’s a very odd way of looking at things. So they don’t care about it as much as you do. Why pull out that old, tattered, terribly tired pejorative “fan boy”?

Oh yeah, tribalism.

Your question goes both ways: Why do you defend a mechanism that doesn’t affect you in any way?

If you enjoy doing various things and the diminishing returns do not affect you, then what is your problem against someone who actually wants to do that? And why do you have to go as far as assuming they are wow fanboys as well and calling them “wowtards”?

Oh yea, elitism…

We don’t dictate your play, why do you feel the urge of dictating ours?

muthax.4720:

So now that this festering pool of nonsense and whine has turned into a “no, I am right, you are wrong” and “wow is teh best”, I suppose it can be closed or moved to a offtopic subforum… sen the level of ‘dialog’ the wowtards are capable of

I’d like you to point out the exact point where I mentioned like that.

If anything, the only one here who seems to be on a tantrum is you…

I’m asking you a simple thing: Can you place an actual solid argument that proves what you are saying? Do you know what a solid argument means? Let me explain this to you, it’s the exact opposite of saying that I have no clue of what I’m talking about and trying to lower the value of my own arguments. That’s just cheap talk and sorry, but I’ve seen enough of it over the years to not be touched by it.

Simple as that, give me an actual argument why someone who wants to dedicate a little extra time for the day in order to acquire something shouldn’t be able to do it.

Menelik.8634:

Paul.4081:

Lani.1429:

Haha bragging about bad rewards? Learn to use Magic find, newcomer.

I heard magic find was tested by people having very high magic find and it was found to be almost useless.

I have full pirate gear and I got 3 times the number of rares than the person I was partied with farming at Orr for about 2 hours.

Ye…do you know how chances work?

@muthax, using the word “wowtard” just proves your bias towards other people and pretty much shows that you are completely blind. Thanks for letting me know so early so I didn’t have to waste any more time trying to get some sense into you.

Noone tried to dictate your game, that’s exactly why we ask that you don’t try to dictate ours.

@Alice, sorry, but I can’t even bother to replying to your nonsense right now. Your entire post is trying to devalue my own instead of trying to bring up actual facts to counter-argue mine. If you think that’s going to lure me into anything, then sorry, but I’m beyond that point of low-level arguments.

Ye,my post is badly written at some points, but it’s has also been written quite late at night and is also quite long, so really, going through editing it now is more of a drag than a necessity. It’s quite obvious that you can get the main points of it either way anyway, since you seem so inclined on trying to devalue them, which means that it doesn’t need a fix that badly either.

@ Lyonell, the few seconds of invurnability that a shield gives does not count as “tanking”.

I would expand on why each of the weapons you mentioned are not good compared to a greatsword build which is not good either (since it only works against people who don’t know how to avoid bull’s charge), but I’m having more important threads to expand on now.

If you like your warrior that much, I respect that, it’s your choise and that’s not for me to refuse or decide. Just don’t come complaining in a year about how weak warriors are compared to other classes when close to everyone gets to know their weaknesses.

muthax.4720:

Apos.5184:

DusK.3849:

Apos.5184:

the original Guild Wars never became big

Four million copies sold and a higher population than WoW just before the release of MoP apparently means it “never became big” now.

Which part of original guild wars didn’t you get?

Any by the way, with 4 million copies sold, then it obviously didn’t have a higher population that WoW. Unless each copy is shared by 2-3 players.

WoW never had at its peak more than 3-4 millions in the West, the rest was asian (mostly chinese) ands they pay in a completely different way. Anyway, if you want to grind and farm there are plenty games out there that cater to those inclinations, GW2, like GW before, doesn’t. So… go play with the other kids? Just leave this game in peace.

Ye, this is what the blind believers of every other dead-by-now MMO said.

If I leave, who will you buy materials/items from?
If I leave, who will you sell materials/items to?
If I leave, who will you stumble upon and do an event?
If I leave, who will join your guild so that it expands?
If I leave, who will you play with on WvW?
If I leave, who will play against on Wvw?

Replace I with the playerbase that is unhappy and you get the picture. Either you like it or not, in order to play an MMO, you need to have a big playerbase.

In order to have a big playerbase you have to have a variety of rewards that will satisfy multiple types of players.

See where this is going?

Oh,and by the way, the players who farm a bit more do not ruin the economy. If you say that, then you have no clue over what does.

Some farm in order to craft their own gear quickly.
Some farm to pile up gold.
Some farm because they enjoy leveling through crafting.

Do you know that I sell absolutely everything I can on the TP, even though it might be just a few copper above the vendor price and I’m practically losing a couple copper due to the listing price? Does that ruin the economy? I’d earn the same amount of money pretty much,but no, I prefer that someone else gets to use that material/item instead, even if it means that I have to take a trip to the TP office to get the income.

Does that ruin the economy as well? Obviously it should, since everything I sell is things I farmed for.

You are in no place to dictate what fun is to another player. This is an MMO. An MMO that doesn’t offer a variety of potential reward routes, but instead punishes the player by the illusion of personal gain is not on a good track.

And why do I say illusion? I’ve already established that. Losing 20% of a huge playerbase is still more money earned than losing 10% of a medium one. But hey, who’s counting, right?

DusK.3849:

Apos.5184:

the original Guild Wars never became big

Four million copies sold and a higher population than WoW just before the release of MoP apparently means it “never became big” now.

Which part of original guild wars didn’t you get?

Any by the way, with 4 million copies sold, then it obviously didn’t have a higher population that WoW. Unless each copy is shared by 2-3 players.

DusK.3849:

Alright, let’s go into some hypotheticals. Let’s say the DR system was removed entirely, and some sort of bonus system like the one I described earlier was put in its place. Now farmers are getting nowhere near as much experience, gold, karma, and items compared to players who are moving about and varying their activities, but are still getting what they got before the DR system went into place.

How long do you think it would be before the Gen Disc boards are flooded with self-entitled farmers going on about how the increased benefits from varied content are “unfair to people trying to farm”?

Because make no mistake, it would happen. See the whole issue isn’t with this DR system isn’t about punishing “the entire player base,” because it doesn’t. I remain unaffected. Many, or dare I say, possibly most players remain unaffected. The only people affected are time-rich players who insist that their low-risk/low-effort activities should be met with high reward. And those affected by the bugs in the system right now, but we’re not talking about them.

These people, even under the circumstances given in my first paragraph, would be back here on the forums, demanding higher rewards for their farming to match those who aren’t. I guarantee it, because that’s how people who want handouts work.

Your statements are nothing than hypothesis as well.

People enjoy being rewarded from what they do and yes, people will complain when they are not rewarded proportionally to the time they invest.

Saying that people will complain about why other people are rewarded more is foolish. Most of the people will just start doing what rewards them more instead. Because this is what they play for, for getting something out of the time they invest.

Sorry, but unless the difference is enormous, I haven’t seen a normal person complain about why he isn’t rewarded enough,as long as giving some extra time will get him there eventually. The problem is that the current system forces a stop on that extra time and that’s something that noone likes.

UndeadRufus.6832:

It’s dictatorial and quickly ensures the demise of a game shortly thereafter.

That must be why the original Guild Wars up and died.

Oh, wait….

Might have something to do with why the original Guild Wars never became big despite having some good ideas behind it.

DusK.3849:

Yeah, I know what the graph looks like; just like any other MMO post-release. What a twist!

But seriously, this:

The “good, then those who enjoy the game will get to enjoy it more” argument is hollow. This is an MMO, you need a big playerbase and that means that you have to please different kinds of people.

I find hilarious. GW2’s Metacritic user score hasn’t moved from it’s 8.3 spot since release. This might be a hard idea for you to grasp, but there are far more people enjoying the game at any given moment than there are people so frustrated with the game that they feel the need to come onto the forum and post pages about how “terrible” it is, or how it’s “dying”.

Crazy, I know. But whatcha gonna do?

No,not really, because some of us actually have the patience to wait for arenanet to do their move before we go to metacritic and give a bad score.

This is what D3 players said, this is what SWTOR players said,this is what AION players said, this is what AOC players said and this is what Tera players said. It’s the same blind faith into the developers every time and every time the ending is that a big part of the playerbase is lost and the game loses value as a whole as well.

Are we stupid for warning arenanet about it? Guess we are, guess we should just wait for the one developer that won’t do this mistake. If Arenanet chooses securing income by burdening the player, then obviously they are not the company we wait for.

DusK.3849:

Gauradan.8361:

DusK.3849:

Probably shrug their shoulders and watch a disappointed minority make hardly any dent in the overall player population when they leave.

You’re throwing that argument around as if it were a fact. Are you privy to some secret statistics from inside ArenaNet?

Not really, but unless you really think there are more than 30k whiners on this forum, the gameplay statistics from Xfire are enough.

http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2

You said it yourself. Bask before the gameplay statistics you used as an argument.

DusK.3849:

Gauradan.8361:

Oh ArenaNet’s deciding that I should only have 30 minutes long play sessions? Well, how about if I and other like-minded players decide that we should have 0 minutes long play sessions? What will they do then?

Probably shrug their shoulders and watch a disappointed minority make hardly any dent in the overall player population when they leave.

Yep, that’s what D3 players think to this day. they are still oblivious that their beloved game still has a user voted score of 3.4 and has lost an astonishing over 70% of its playerbase. To them, that 70% was the “minority” as well.

I bet that SWTOR players still thinks that their game rocks as well, it doesn’t change the fact that its struggling economically.

The “good, then those who enjoy the game will get to enjoy it more” argument is hollow. This is an MMO, you need a big playerbase and that means that you have to please different kinds of people.

Ye well, warriors wear heavy armor and has the least survivability,so I don’t see why armor is making much of a deal right now.

If everyone has the same amount of armor, then everyone also has to have the same amount of escape mechanisms, same amount of cc and same amount of avoidance.

See the problem?

+1 to Ronin.

Seriously, most of the playerbase complaining are players who have been playing MMOs for years and years. From as low kitten years,to as high as 10+, saying that we are just a bunch of whiny kids is ludicrous.

All of us have seen these things happen before. We don’t complain,we just point towards the conclusion that the past attempts to something like this has shown. Punishing the player is a cheap way of making sure that you won’t lose income, sure, but then you will get punished back by the player itself.

Actually, I’m having a tough time as well on getting to explain to my friends, who bought the game because I tried it first and fascinated with, about the diminishing returns…for now I’m just letting them enjoy the leveling experience…

They.9516:

/clap
ignore dusk, he likes to think he’s the president of tyria and dictates what others opinions are.

I don’t ignore anyone. Everyone has the right to express what he has to say. Only thing I ask is actual arguments.

Phrases like “forums are not an indication of the community thoughts” or "stop anything relevant to that are not argument and won’t prove anything.

Unless arenanet posts numbers of the average amount of players playing ever since the diminishing returns got widely known, then noone has solid ground saying that all the people who complain are wrong. Like I said before, you can never stop having complaining threads in your forums as a company, it’s when they pop up one after another that you should start worrying and this is what actually happens.

That being said, Dusk has actually linked one of his own threads where he proposes something which is actually good as well. Whether he understands our own reasoning or just has more faith in arenanet, that’s his opinion and is acceptable, as long as he is able to discuss over different opinions as well.

DusK.3849:

Apos.5184:

If I want to invest the proper time to farm something, then nothing should extend that time requirement.

It should if it would yield you more reward than actually going out and doing something in different places of the game world instead of sitting in one spot being useless.

Think of that area you’re trying to farm as a giant resource node. It’s gonna dry up. Deal with it, and move on to the next.

Ye, about that, it would be nice if different areas yielded the rewards that I need.

If I need potent venom sacks, then no, I won’t go in areas where tiny ones drop.

Since they have made sure that different areas equal to different scale of rewards, then no, diminishing returns are a punishment,not a feature.

You are also missing the main point. You can’t eradicate bots completely. Anyone who thinks they can is a fool. By the time they find the account botting, it has earned more than enough income to fuel another one going if this one gets banned. You can only stall them, not stop them. (not saying that they shouldn’t stall them, but they shouldn’t stall the average player on his/her game either)

On the other hand,there is something that they can do and that’s offersing services that others can’t offer.

DusK.3849:

He’s prolly just mad he can’t grub anymore, prolly.

But seriously, low-risk/low-effort, high-reward activity like farming should never be rewarded more than playing the game normally, and really, that’s the only kind of stuff the anti-farm code punishes right now. ANet’s the first company to get it right. /applaud

Obviously you didn’t read all of my post if you say something like that. Do you have that reply ready to be copy pasted or what?

I never grubbed in Orr and neither have I bothered exploiting anything. If you like using that as an excuse to de-value someone’s opinion, be my guest, my dignity remains clear.

If I want to invest the proper time to farm something, then nothing should extend that time requirement. If my “fun” for the day is crafting this and that, then I should be able to do just that, by giving the required time into the game. If your fun is doing the same thing within a week, that’s your own game and it’s neither better or worse, nor more fun in any way.

Also,I could swear I was on the suggestion forums when I was creating this…

Ye, because if I want 48 bloods to make gear with +power, I obviously should kill for poison sacks and fangs instead,because that’s the right way of playing?

If I want to craft something, then I’m entitled to work towards that. If my “fun” for today means getting those 6 pieces of +power gear, then that’s what I want and should be able to do and noone is in place to say otherwise what is “fun” for me.

Exploiters and bots are a whole other issue altogether and let’s face it. This measure barely did anything against them.

and ppl need to stop rushing to get gear cuz the game is not goin away anytime soon and u have to remember u dont pay monthly for it so u can leave and come back to it.

My life, my time, my investment. If I want those pieces of gear today and I am willing to give the required time, then there shouldn’t be anything that stalls me from doing it. If you want to spend a week instead, that’s your own game and your own pace, respectable just as much but neither better or worse in terms of “this is how the game should be played”.

Zsymon.8457:

I guess Apos, that everyone else must be wrong, and you must be the only player in the game that knows how bad the warrior really is?

Sure,don’t mind me, just do some pvp and see for yourself how much of a gap there is when you get to play against someone who is actually good.

Warriors wear heavy armor, yet they drop dead within seconds. A well played elementalist has enough escapes and other mechanisms to survive for ages. Same goes for mesmers, thiefs ,guardians and to some lesser degree, necromancers.

Warriors have close to zero damage if you know what to avoid and/or cc them at the right time. Sure,a greatsword warrior will shred someone to pieces if he lands his bull’s charge and the target has zero stun breakers. IF is the keyword here.

Warriors have no versatility. Greatsword is the only viable weapon currently and even that falls flat against good opponents who know what to do.

To summarise, warriors are bad. Or maybe they aren’t bad, maybe they are just fine and balanced and everything else has just too many good skills, but that doesn’t change how extremelly the class is outshined in everything by almost every other class, except maybe one or two classes who have their own problems going.

You are a company,we know and understand that. We might not like it,but we do know it. We know that your main goal is having an income. Sure,some of your developers might be getting some ethical satisfaction out of their job, but the general strife is towars money.

So that gets us where? To the draconian diminishing returns that you have instituted upon everyone in order to counter bots who partially ruin your income.

I’m not sure what kind of economy advisors you have, but basic maths and logic say that losing 20% of a huge pie is less than losing 10% of a small pie.

Don’t act like you know everything on how to counter bots. Most of your players has been into this genre for more than 7-10 years and we all know one fact. That you can’t eradicate bots.

You want to earn an income? Then give your players an actual reason to give you money and stop punishing them. Instead of taking care of how to lose a smaller amount of your pie, why don’t you invest that time on making the pie bigger instead?

So here are some tips that will help you increase that pie and,trust me, that people will actually respect on your behalf. And that respect will also make them more prone on opening their wallets to you.

First of all, let’s start with basics. You want this game to survive out of micro-transactions. Right? Well, let’s pay a little attention to the name of the formula. It’s micro-transactions. That means small. And there is nothing small to having 10 euros as the lowest amount of gem purchase available.

So let’s start with this:

a) Introduce the options of buying gems with 2,5 and 5 euros.

Now that this is established, why don’t you give people something extra and actually useful to spend that money on. Not everyone is fascinated by walking around like a chef ya know, but you know, I’m willing to put my hand in fire that a big part of your playerbase has got some of the details wrong on their character creation. Small details, like making the head too big, like picking just a tone brigther colour or picking the wrong glow colour on a sylvari. Or are even unsatisfied with being male or female and want to change.

I’m also willing to bet that a large part of those players are willing to give you and you alone money in order to be able to fix those minor or major details. Not the gold sellers or anyone else, they are willing to give you money for a feature that you do not yet provide them.

So let’s get to:

b) Give us buyable features that are actually widely requested,like
1) Character re-customization
2) Male/Female change
3) Do a survey on your forums what else people want. This is what you have them for, to get feedback.

Yet you keep punishing them for something they are not responsible.

Exploiting dungeons, exploiting the grubs in Orr, exploiting whatever is a despicable act. But when someone commits a crime, you do not punish the whole city that said person lives in,you punish that person and that person alone.

This is a wake up call and I hope you get it. Start working on giving the players a reason to buy stuff off you instead of punishing them because a few people are taking some of your income away.

Unless you don’t want to keep your pie of money going, it’s already shrinking and I’m sure you have noticed. Don’t you think that this is what you should focus on? You can’t eradicate pests, so stop trying to save the rotten food they eat, try serving more fresh food to everyone instead.

And they also have to introduce lower payment rates as well. 10 euros being the minimum is too much. Even LoL, who was among the first to prove that the micro-transaction system works had 5 as it’s lowest and recently even introduced a 2.5 euro payment option.

They are called micro-transactions for a reason.

Nah, they just need to find a way to make the game reward changing areas.

We can’t do much if we are being forced to be in Orr in order to get the end game level items.

Proper loot scaling in lower areas and proper rewards for being there would motivate some of us to do it “their way”.

I mean,really, even increasing the reward for the daily tasks would motivate people to do something extra.

Moreover,they should focus on earning a revenue from things that people would actually buy. Not how to avoid losing revenue,but how to earn more.

Seriously, we don’t even have the option to buy a 1-use re-customization of ourcharacter, but they say that they are being hurt by gold sellers? I mean,seriously, just ask around how many level 80s are disatisfied with just a minor detail of their character, yet they don’t have the courage to do the leveling all over again, then you’ll see how much real revenue they are missing by focusing too much on this.

You can’t stop the bots, they will always find a way around. If they focus on them, then they’ve lost the game. They should focus on providing features that the gold sellers can’t.

Errr…warriors are bad…

I don’t know where you see that “versatility” you are talking about when they have only one viable build in PvP in order to be able to do anything other than run around and shout.

Seriously, play an elementalist, then tell me how versatile and effective a warrior is compared to that…

I don’t think that all the humanoids share the same DR. They are on different meters on the achievement tab, so they must be treated as different types.

The biggest problem is with Orr, which is the last area of the game and the one with the highest drop rates. Absolutely everything there is considered a risen and thus the DR kick in extremelly fast and do not reset,since there is no variety on what you kill.

For example,if you do the main events of Orr, like doing all the pre-chains and then retaking a temple, you might as well give up with the area as well,since you won’t be picking up anything more from there.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

I am sorry , but ur problem is with the DR in karma , exp or gold ?
If it is with the karma+exp (account bount) u can ask the company to remove the DR from those and keep it to the <<gold part>>

It’s with enemy types. If you kill the same thing over and over again, then they will drop absolutely nothing eventually.

So if you want to farm bloods in order to make items with +power, good luck, especially since drops are type bound as well. Same goes with poison sacks,etc.

“Hey,I need 48 poison sacks to create all 6 items with the stats I need and they only drop from spiders, but if I farm spiders alone then they won’t drop anything in the end.”

You get the idea.

This system also works for ores, trees, etc, eventually they won’t respawn for you.

DusK.3849:

Nobody’s pretending bots are a good thing.

But nobody in their right mind would call farming fun, or the opposition to it “bad game design.”

Farming is not fun. Getting what we worked for is fun. When we are being stripped away of that option, then we are being stripped away of some of the fun as well.

Seriously,if I want to get my warrior’s proffessions to 400, then I shouldn’t have to change zones every so often. I want to stay in one kitten place and farm the mobs that give the items I need. If I want mithril and poison sacks, then I should be able to farm mithril and poison sacks.

DusK.3849:

Apos

The forum community is a sample of the overall community, within an error margin, but not much away from the real deal.

Saying that whoever doesn’t post on the forums is happy is equally biased and foolish.

Having one QQ thread per day means nothing. When your forums are flooded with those, then you do have some problems going on.

Stop being blind if you don’t mind. It’s easy to try to prove something wrong by devaluing it. Why don’t you try counter-arguing those “whiners” instead? Some of them have some solid arguments. Can you negate them without saying that “their opinion doesn’t matter”?

Wrong again. Most of a game’s community enjoying a game are doing just that; enjoying the game. The others will most likely be here insisting that, because the game doesn’t match up to what they consider fun (which, more often than not, is composed of ideas that are mutually exclusive to what most of the game’s community are having fun with in-game), that somehow the game’s broken or bad. Therefore, the whiner:praiser ratio is going to be significantly higher on the forum.

Don’t believe me? Go to any map in the game, even Orr, and ask everyone if they’re enjoying the game. The difference between their words and the general feel of the forums is night and day.

As for your last part, I agree with ArenaNet: farming is low-risk/low-effort, high reward. If you’re getting more from farming that players would get playing the game normally, something’s not right. I don’t agree with their methodology in some cases, but I do agree with the new dungeon system of 60 tokens per new chain clear/20 per repeated chain clear, because it eliminates players trying to loophole the system and get more rewards from the game than those of us who are just playing the game.

These farmers are asking for a handout. Kudos to ANet for going the other way with it.

Not true, a satisfied forum community can exist and is quite noticeable as well when it exists. Instead of seeing 5 threads complaining about the same problem, you’d be seeing 1 or 2. Then there would be tons of threads about aspects of the game.

E.g. When a class is happy with their current state, they don’t have 3/5 threads being about how bad the class is. Instead they have 1/5 and the other 4 are discussions on the class, be it mechanics, builds or even stupid questions, but not whining nevertheless.

I agree with you that the dungeon system is a bit more fair now and yes,the CoF runs were absolutely ridiculous. I’m one of the players that enjoys doing something legitimately, but that also means that when I want to farm for crafting, then that’s exactly what I want to do.

This is what we are talking about, the DR on loot and collectables. This is not a rant about how they fixed exploits like dungeon farming,etc. This is something welcome and was a step forward. Why? Because the fix was towards rewarding those who do the dungeon correctly more compared to those who try to exploit it.

What about normal farming though? The treatment there is a plain and ridiculous punishment for something that we are not responsible for. Nothing more,nothing less.

DusK.3849:

Apos.5184:

The amount of threads of people disatisfied with the DR system and the supportive replies are enough a proof.

A forum community is not representative of the game’s community as a whole. Therefore, the whining threads are proof of nothing other than a select few’s insistence on complaining rampantly.

The forum community is a sample of the overall community, within an error margin, but not much away from the real deal.

Saying that whoever doesn’t post on the forums is happy is equally biased and foolish.

Having one QQ thread per day means nothing. When your forums are flooded with those, then you do have some problems going on.

Stop being blind if you don’t mind. It’s easy to try to prove something wrong by devaluing it. Why don’t you try counter-arguing those “whiners” instead? Some of them have some solid arguments. Can you negate them without saying that “their opinion doesn’t matter”?

Enoch.1058:

Until you can prove that the number of players dissatisfied with the DR significantly impacts ANet’s bottom line, you have NO argument.

The amount of threads of people disatisfied with the DR system and the supportive replies are enough a proof.

If you want to diminish the value of those replies, then that doesn’t mean that it’s less of a proof. It only means that you are in denial and refuse to accept an opinion that is against the game, even though it might be good willed.

Dixa.6017:

the fact that peole want 100+ gold for some exotics tells you there is already starting to be far too much gold in the economy due to the rampant botting and not just some clever individuals.

No,it tells me that those people are wasting too much time and money (traveling costs) thanks to the diminishing returns of farming, which in return increases the price of their products as well.

Oh,and since not everyone is willing to cope with this stupid mechanic, people are quitting. And since people are quitting, less people are buying gems, something that can be seen through the increase of the gem price from 25-30 to 35-45.

You think that people quit the game because they encounter a bug every now and then? Think again,because a bug is the least concern of everyone, the majority knows that these will get fixed sooner or later.

Sorry,but when the developers focus on a system like this instead of implementing crucial features like being able to join SPvP with a group, then the customers have every right to complain.

Unless arenanet can prove us that the bots were cutting their earnings by at least 20-25%,then they are inexcusable. Losing 25% of a huge playerbase is much better than losing 10% of a mediocre playerbase and unless they start picking up the important tasks and show that dedication to everyone, then the playerbase will shrink more and more.

Seriously, these diminishing returns is something that competes with Blizzard’s greed. It’s something someone would expect from Activision. And seriously, being compared to Activision is bad and arenanet should wake up.

Ye,it would also be nice if people could actually touch you in order to burst down that little health pool.

You have 20 base skills and 5 skills that can be cleanses, shields, invurnabilities,etc.

If you don’t use them properly, it’s learn to play issues.

My elementalist with 14K health has 5 times the survivability of my warrior. She can also kite 4-6 people without much problems. The warrior can’t survive 2-3.

And that’s while I’m also being able to give our every possible condition, do dmg and also heal my team for tons.

If that doesn’t tell you anything…

Nope,I’m fine, still kicking and playing.

The diminishing returns in everything is somewhat disturbing and is one of the few things I’d like to see changed and the most important at that.

Hidon.4680:

I don’t know why I can’t seem to get the quote functionality working.

@Apos

I didn’t state anywhere that people shouldn’t be compensated proportionately for their time investment in farming. As a matter of fact, both of my posts are in agreement with you….

My point was that it doesn’t matter whether farming is made easier or more difficult because those with more time to farm will always have a leg up on those with less time to farm, as it is with nearly every activity.

That I agree with and sorry if I misunderstood your point.

I can understand the reasoning behind the diminishing returns they instituded, but it hurts the player more than what it hurts the bots…I just hope they find another way to get rid of them.

Hidon.4680:

In regards to making farming easier or more difficult, I don’t think it would change anything. The most important limiting factor in the GW2 economy is player time, so if you can’t play much, you will always be at a disadvantage to those that can play much more (despite the anti-farming code). I think it’s more important that casual players always have multiple methods of gaining entry into the economy.

You are aware that this is exactly what killed WoW, right?

If you invest more time into something, then it’s absolutely normal that you will earn more and that you should earn more.

I won’t be jealous of someone with a legendary, he earned it, it might take me 4-5++ months to get my hands on one, but that doesn’t mean that we both deserved it at the same time.

In the other hand, hey, I was busy getting my university degree, so what’s the fuss about? I chose to focus on that and I get rewarded for that instead.

Equal rewards for unequal investment destroys MMORPGs and it should stop.

Not if you keep going with the warrior, they are extremely gimmicky and situational.

Change now that it’s early.

By the way, shamans didn’t have it THAT bad. They only had a bad period of PvE healing in cataclysm,but they were the absolute best PvP healers, don’t excaggerate, it’s not like you had a druid (like I did) who got to be the worst PvE healers the last tier and the worst PvP healers for the whole expansion. (unless you were playing elemental or enhancement, in which case, I take back my words ^^)

But ye, I know that feeling.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I get it. This is a troll thread.

Move along, nothing to see here.

OK, see you in one year when you will be crying about the status of warriors then.

Enjoy the class, remember, you chose it to stay weak, have fun when everyone starts realizing and exposing these weaknesses.

Ye,I was excited with all the good stuff of this patch, now I’m certain that all our bugs are solved!

And to be precise, it’s not like we have the hardest bugs to fix as well, most of them involve around bonuses not being given correctly, lol.

They are not annoyances, they buy time, and doing that is much more valuable than getting back up for 15 seconds.

Ye,in 1v1 you will kill a thief, that’s not new, most likely a mesmer as well (although the mesmer actually has a chance to get back up as well if auto targetting finishes off an illusion), but not in a team fight.

In a teamfight, they will buy enough time and get a good enough position for their allies to ressurect them. Not for 15 seconds, but normally and permanently.

And this is unaffected by the number of people. Give a thief 10 people trying to finish him off and he will still be able to buy some time for his team. A warrior can’t hold one, leave alone two.

And no,you can’t vengeance when someone is starting to finish you off immediately. The vengeance cooldown is bigger than 2 finishing animations AND the hammer knock-down,so whoever says that they get back up and finish off duels are either bluntantly lying or were playing against players who don’t know crap about what to do against a warrior and delayed their finishing.

ThatTallGuyX.3058:

Did you try depositing your collectibles…. there is an option to deposit all your collectibles in a storage bin which can be accessed at all of the crafting stations. You can do this directly from your bag by clicking on the gear and clicking deposit all collectibles. You can also be anywhere in the world to do this since it’s directly from your bag…so no porting is necessary

Now…that was helpful!

Risen Acolytes have a beyond ridiculous aggro range in my opinion.

Risen Farmers/Fishers could use some tweaking as well. Having a knock-back/knockdown and also a 2 second knockdown makes it ridiculous when aggroing even 2 of them.

Those are the only things that I find a bit exaggerated. Everything else might be easy or hard sometimes, but nothing that can’t be overcome.

That’s because you assume that everyone plays the way you do.

I don’t have inventory problems when I go for a typical mithril farm, WvW, looking for events or whatever.

But I do have problems with inventory when I do my map exploration and I end up having to hoarde 2-3 different tiers of venom sacks, blood, etc, which I want to bank in order to increase the proffessions of an alt in the future.

And no,I won’t pay 1.5-2 silver in order to go to the nearest heart vendor and sell trash that will go for 50-60 copper.