The first ability (rock throw) should just explode heads on contact and perform insta-kills. That’s the only way the Warrior’s downed abilities will be balanced.
What took you so long to give that reply? I was starting to wonder how is it possible for this community to lack your type of guy. You should have been 3d-5th under normal circumstances. Caught a cold or what?
+10% damage against burning targets is a near useless trait and should be changed.
That’s not true from a PvE stand point, where the main target will have all of the possible conditions on it 24/7, it’s practically a 10% damage increase.
The downside is that dual shot plainly sucks. Longbow warriors could use a couple tweaks and we will make awesome and unique archers who fill a different niche compared to the rangers. (we already do, but we are gimmicky at that)
From a PvP stand point, it is bad,unless they increase the burning debuff time of our skills.
I hope that these tweaks happen, because the longbow skills are much more appealing to me in theory than the ranger ones. In practice though, they lack the right numbers.
Because by having to go back every time my bags are full of junk will cause me to lose more silver than what I’ll learn when taking into account WP costs.
On top of that,I lose track of where is what and where new pick ups will go for a fast salvage.
Moreover,it’s not about selling,it’s the exact opposite, I want to have space for the things that I actually want.
Press V on bull’s Charge → Profit.
Even though some people might be bothering with picking and selling the trash items, I’m fairly certain that there’s a big amount of people who find them an annoyance,having to pick them every time so that they don’t stay on the corpse and stop you from looting multiple bodies that are stack on each other.
So,give us two options, each of them will be a subsequent tick below auto-looting.
When we click on autoloot, give us the option to activate “ignore trash”, which will leave the trash items on the corpses.
When that option is ticked,give us an extra option of “pick and destroy”, which will automatically destroy any trash picked up. This is in order to avoid the frustration of having to pick everything in big events.
I laughed so hard at this thread. Stability ensures death against 5 of 8 professions making things largely equal across the board. Hammer knockdown also means you must be double stomped or risk vengeance.
Vengeance is good depending on your build, if you can bang out a lot of damage in the brief period it is up, you can easily kill 1 or more people in pvp with it. And if you traited vengeance and can kill people fast, well then, more power to you. Often you were gonna die anyway, so you might as well make people burn cool downs.
Because everyone will allow you to bash their face when you vengeance,right?
Sorry,playing against noobs does not equal having a good skill set, I’ve told that numerous times already.
Name a class that can’t outsustain,kite or do both against a warrior. Apart from engineers because I haven’t played much with or against them to be sure about them.
And no, saying “hurr durr,I tear them apart with my GS build while in vengeance” doesn’t count either. Everyone with a brain will render your GS build useless,be it in vengeance or not.
Most of the other classes have enough utility to reach a revive. Warrior will either die, or die a little later.
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Would also like to see longbow range to be 1200 by default and not require a whole slot for the reach extend.
…or at least merge the longbow range and the +10% longbow dmg against burning target into one single trait.
I personally wouldn’t go for condition damage with axes, that’s not their main focus even when having the according trait.
If you want to go like that in WvWvW though…well, power+vitality+toughness seems to be the only way to go, because if you really want to go melee against zergs,then you’d better have the survivability to back up that courage.
Ye,and all of them have twice the escape mechanics of a warrior and are ranged on top of that. Not to mention that they are equally (if not more) tanky, despite the fact that we wear heavy armor. (which is made out of tissue paper as it seems)
Sounds legit, right?
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3 out of 5 skills require the warrior to stop moving while wielding a hammer. If you can’t avoid them,you will pay the price.
Learn to play issues really.
In a 1v1, if you down your opponent, unless your terrible, you will always finish them regardless, doesn’t matter what class you are vs what class you are facing. Everyone that is down needs some help to stall to get back up.
Go roll your guardian since you think their aoe knockback/knockdown is so good. I have yet to see that save a guardian from getting getting finished in a 1v1 but hey, maybe you will be the first.
And how often do you 1v1?
So you find it fair that a thief,mesmer,guardian,etc can keep a whole bunch of people occupied in order to not risk a revive, but warrior being unable to save himself in any possible scenario other than being ignored is ok.
And you also enjoy having to use a trait slot in order for your vengeance to stop being a chance. Right? While at the same time all the other classes use that valuable trait slots for bonuses that will help them while they are alive.
Oh,and by the way, if you vengeance and they bother attacking you again, then it’s their fault for dying. Almost every class has the ability to kite/hide from you until you die,so no, you won’t kill them if they are smart and don’t think that bashing their skills is the way to go.
Suit yourself I say. This happens in every MMO, people think that their class is fine,then 1 year later they start qq-ing about how the developers have done nothing about how bad the class is now that everyone has learned how vurnerable they are.
Keep your downed skills and your GS build then. I’ll be rerolling and laughing at warriors like you.
The reasons why the warrior’s downed skill suck has already been thoroughly explained by Redundancy.7325 better than what I could ever bother explaining.
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It’s AoE damage can easilly be compared to a ranger’s, it’s nice that we have been given the option to go that way and be the typical castle archer. Nevertheless, it would be even better if we didn’t require a trait in order to bring its range to 1200 and also if dual shot did just a little more amount of damage,because right now it does close to nothing compared to how slow the projectiles are and easy to avoid.
As to thieves, when they go invisible smash auto attack. I use axe, axe and its auto attack is an aoe so if they get in front of you they will get hit out of cloak. As to downed skills, warriors are much better then elementalist. Eles have only have immobilize and by the time it starts the enemy is on you finishing you off, most of the time my ele has no chance at rallying or using mist form. Warrior can KD one guy and then a lot of the time use vengeance. If you have the quickness trait on 25% enemy health and it hasn’t proced yet then you can down them and double speed finish them within that 4 seconds.
Ye,nice and rosy about the elementalists, my mistake on that part.
As for thieves, once again you do the same as the above who replied. You give a 1v1 scenario for an example. I’m not talking about duels that don’t exist in the game. A thief is easily ressurected when invisible for example. Yes, I’m aware that the thief is still there and that he does get hit, but that doesn’t make it any less useful,especially when it goes to interrupt at least 2 finishings when combined with his 2nd skill. And not only that, but if the thief teleports wisely, he will get to interrupt a 3d as well by gaining enough time to teleport again.
But please tell how you vengeance after being knocked down.
a) If it’s 2 people finishing you off,you are dead.
b) If it’s 1 person, the cooldown before vengeance is available is bigger than 2 finishing animations and the KD time. That’s if the other guy starts the first finishing within 2-3 seconds of you being down,which is a lot of time actually.
So the only way to vengeance is:
a) Be ignored, which doesn’t make the skill any more usefull, it just makes the opponents bad.
b) Have your team use quite a big amount of cc on the person finishing you off. If it’s more than 1-2 people, well, good luck once again.
If vengeance had like 3-5 seconds less cooldown, then yes, it would be usable in 1v1 situations. Right now it’s usable if you are playing against someone who doesn’t know how vurnerable warriors are when downed,which is completely irrelevant to how good the skill set is.
Either that or extend the 2nd skill to knock down the target and mini-stun everyone around him for 0.2 seconds,so that we can at least prolong the finishing animations on everyone, which is something that close to every other class is capable of doing.
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You’ve convinced yourself Warrior downed abilities are bad, so we’re done here. If I wanted to have a conversation like this, I’d speak to my wall.
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to achieve with this thread, but good luck.
Ye,because obviously you are rational and haven’t convinced yourself that everything is fine,yet the only example you could give was counter-argued,thus you come up with this form of reply.
You don’t want to have a conversation? Sure,that means that you can’t argument without the use of specific scenarios that happen once every 10-15 matches on which your teammates help you use your vengeance and also help you to get that avenging kill.
I’ll make these 2 questions again:
a) How often are the downed skill of the other classes useful and serve their purpose?
b) Which other class has to use a trait slot in order for a downed skill, which you won’t use every time as well, to end up being good?
Ignorance is bliss they say. If the developers listen to you and everyone else who thinks that they are fine with gimmicky skills, then suit yourself. My purpose is to make the class that I play actually useful,if that doesn’t happen, then I’m ok with re-rolling after I get my 100% map completion. Then I’ll just laugh each time I see a warrior struggling and trying to figure out why he can’t kill people who know how to dodge a stun with their GS build.
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I can’t believe this argument is happening so poorly. Guardians have an AoE knockdown, then people run back in and finish them anyway. Their 3rd ability is only useful in rezzing yourself when you’re downed alone, which is a situation that hardly ever matters.
If a team delays your Defeat (for spawn timer reasons, yes it happens, no not in pubs because those games are just herds of cats), as a warrior, you can pop up and delay a point cap further. You can cause more harassment. Deal more damage. It’s actually a very good ability.
If two people are stomping you, then congratulations, you were in a losing situation anyway, especially if no one is there to help keep them off of you.
If you could knock everyone on the map down with your #2, it still wouldn’t save you from being defeated, and you’d probably still complain about the #3. I don’t see anything wrong with Warrior downed abilities. If you can’t see the value in Vengeance, it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
Guardians have an AoE pushback and knockdown. You can see the value of a warrior standing right up,but you can’t see the value of that in a teamfight?
And you give an example of a warrior being in a 2v1 situation in order to justify what? You don’t need to be in a 2v1 situation,as soon as 2 people start finishing,you are dead and that’s it.
And no, having your team waste cc so that you manage to vengeance is not justifiable either, especially when the rest of the classes just create enough gap for their teammates to get them up completely, not just for 15 seconds.
Ye, it’s useful, that doesn’t mean that it is good enough to be able to be compared to what other classes have.
boy, you just started this game or what?
Thieves can be killed before they go stealth , easily, even if they go stealth you can kill them inside it (as long as you hit where they stealthed).
Mesmers are super easy to kill, after they become invisible they have a red arrow on their head pointing towards the real mesmer and not the illusion ,they die before using their 3rd skill.Vengeance gives you 5 seconds of invulnerability and stability, it is the reason why warrior can beat most classes 1v1. Because if you dont beat em w/ ur hp then when you get downed you can easily do 10-20% of their hp and if u down them as well its over for them. If a warrior doesnt get finished within 2 seconds after he got downed, he will use vengeance (provided that he knocks you down as well). It is the best downed skill and has saved me and even my team so many times in spvp
i still remember how once we had a 3v3 at some point in a tournament, and all our enemies were downed but so were we. Guess why we won. I used vengeance and finished 1 so my team got rallied.
Ye,that’s if they are downed. If you use vengeance,that means they are not downed. And they have lots of cc and invisibility while they are alive, enough to outlive your vengeance. This goes for both thieves and mesmers.
Wow, vengeance was useful once and that makes it a good skill.
Ye,and I have killed a player by throwing rocks at him, obviously it’s one of the best skills in game.
Sorry,but being useful on one specific scenario does not equal being useful in general.
If the enemy team allows you to use vengeance,then obviously you don’t play against good teams. All it takes is 2 people finishing you off, not that hard now,is it?
And by the way,I love how you focus on vengeance, completely ignoring my argument over the hammer KD.
Not to mention that you keep bringing up the improved vengeance trait. OK, here’s one question for you then: Which other class has to use a trait slot in order for his downed skills to be useful?
Are you that type of guy that doesn’t want his class fixed because that way he thinks that he is a better player than others? If so,please let me know already. I’ve seen your kind oftenly in my time playing MMOs and I’ve got to understand by now that no argument goes over this type of guy’s skull.
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Longbow with the traits and everything. Skills are mostly shouts in order to buff up and “shake off” the other people that are on top of the walls.
If I go in melee in big zergs I’ll just die,so might as well bombarm the gate area with some awesome AoE. The damage output on rams is really high as well.
The only weakness to vengeance is the delay until you can use it. But it makes sense, if you could use it immediately it would be far too OP. Just because you don’t understand or acknowledge that it has strengths, doesn’t mean its a bad skill. The sheer fact that everyone else so far has disagreed with you must mean something (well probably not to you, since you seem very stubborn).
No point in arguing anymore though. Reroll a different class if it bothers you so much.
In Nazi Germany everyone agreed with Hitler’s reasoning. That means that it was correct?
See what I did there?
Vengeance is not good,but not bad either. Surely not excellent. The problem is that you will absolutely never get to use it against a team that knows what they are doing.
Please remind me how often do thiefs and mesmers use their 3d skills? Ah yeah…every single time they are downed…
There is something called being able to argument. Just because I can do it against someone who does not agree with me doesn’t mean that I am stubborn. It just means that I can reply.
I can kill everyone for 15 seconds lol. You don’t even need to kill them, just hit someones thats dying . You can also drop a person for less than 15 sec with the right build
So,you are saying that you have a skill that works only when there is someone downed already and if he dies as well,when other classes have skills that work on every situation, but you are ok with it.
Your reasoning sounds solid. *hey guys,I got a skill that works well every 2nd blue moon,but I’m fine with it"
Ye,seems a legit.
Oh,and by the way,even if revenge was actually as good as you make it to be,guess what,you have to survive first to use it. And with a single target knock-down,you won’t. Like you said, if you play with skilled players,I doubt that only one of them will try to finish you off, am I right? So then what are you going to do? Apart from choose who to annoy by not allowing him to do the finishing blow.
If you say that well coordinated teams have no problems,then won’t exactly 2 members of the opposite coordinated team try to finish you off?
And here we go again with playing against dummies.
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you kidding me? warrior has vengeance, best skill ever. You can get the sweet vengeance trait and it is totally game changing
warrior downed skills are top tier unlike the class itself lol, the single target KD may be a bit weak but veng + sweet veng makes up for it
Please tell me which class will you kill within the 15 seconds. Apart from a ranger or a necromancer and I still have doubts about the former.
Will you kill a mesmer?
Will you kill a thief?
Will you kill a guardian?
Will you kill an elementalist?
The thief and mesmer can buy 5-7 seconds only when they are downed,let alone when they are alive.
Game changing,sure, when you play against dummies. Or against an engineer I guess. And I’m fairly certain I’ve seen an absolute zero of them so far in spvp.
Looking at every other class they have forms of prolonging their deaths by A LOT. And I’m not even talking about mesmers and thiefs here, who are the most ridiculous examples, but also guardians and elementalists are miles ahead when it comes to being able to annoy the enemy when downed.
And what do we have? A single-target knock down and a revive that will also kill us eventually. (not to mention that is bugged and you will also sometimes spawn on a waypoint and die again) And it’s also bad in itself,since almost everyone is able to kite/cc us until we are dead.
Why is our second downed skill so bad? Why single target? You gave guardians an AoE push back but you thought that an AoE knock down was too much for the balance?
To me it seems like warriors were the last to have their downed skills designed and you were out of ideas, then gave us this terribad knockdown in order to be able to brag about originality and skills not being the same between classes.
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Longbow is absolutely awesome and is my main toy in WvW. The damage it does in rams is just awesome.
I’d be really happy if they fixed Dual Shot to do a respectable amount of damage so that it stops being a wait for arcing shot to cooldown though…no need to buff the damage it does to rams, but seriously,hitting players for 200 to 500 at best(with both shots,not each) is a bit dissapointing.
Not to mention that it’s bugged and if you have the longbow traits,it will still not auto-attack when focusing someone between 900-1200 range.
I really like how warrior has skills that could make him/her a viable archer,but there’s still work to be done.
a) Using the hammer F1 burst while rooted (most likely when immobilized in general,happened to me when rooted by a ranger though) will result in being stuck in place and unable to move.
It can be solved by using the burst skill again when the root ends or by switching to a sword and leaping, but a bug nevertheless.
b) Longbow Dual Shot won’t be auto cast when focusing a target that is between 900-1200 range, even if you have the necessary longbow trait to extend its reach to that point.
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I personally went for longbow and got the tactics traits about it as well and I’m quite happy with the results.
The damage can’t be compared with rangers’ because we got much different playstyles and I think our AoE damage is far superior,not to mention that arcing arrow and combustive shot do tons of damage to rams,something that rangers can’t do. On the other hand,we don’t have the burst damage rangers have.
The only downside is that Dual Shot is currently bugged a little and it won’t auto attack when the target is above 900 range,even though it has 1200 range with the correct trait. I hope this gets fixed soon.