Guild Wars 2

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Actually when you buy a battle chest you get separate serial codes for each game. I can take my free core game and throw it to a friend or make a second account. In this case I buy this bundle and if I already have the core game then that part of the bundle just disappears.

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

That’s new, since evem Anet used the word bundle and then said “you can’t unbundle”.
Also, the game is free? It was on the shop for 40 euros last week. It drops faster than your credibility when you make such statements.

Oh who said “bundle”? I think they made an error by saying that. This is the problem with everyone using popular words, its inaccurate. My description of the situation is correct.

But you aren’t talking about what Anet actually stated, so your description is correct but the reality descripted is non-existant.

I’m describing reality, the person you say used the word “bundle” was incorrect (because its clearly not a bundle as the core game is not included, there is a gift of the core game for those who don’t attach their bought copy of HoT to a core game though).

So you are admitting that anet is making 2 different bundles with 2 different values based on who is purchasing them?
Since one of them has a gift included and the other one doesn’t?
And the gift does hold value otherwise anet would give it away for free to everyone?

joneb.5679:

LoL what I wrote is fact. It’s not opinion. I did not say the original game is available otherwise than with the HoT. I said its bundled with it free of charge as Anet have stated the price of Hot includes the original for free. That is fact. Also its fact that no matter the price, the bundle is more favourable to new customers and it is a bundle no matter what. There is no question that the base game is required. That changes nothing of the cost and value to new and current players.

It’s becoming apparent you are not capable of making sense of this. The analogy you use of restaurants giving free sample is evidence of that. Free samples are never full meals in my experiwnce. they are a very tiny portion as an example of the food on offer. Maybe you are thinking of a voucher for the first visit.

Im not getting involved in your endless illogical debate. I already made it clear we are owed nothing from Anet and that they are free to not do anything for current customers. I also said its business but I’m the kind of person who believes in human decency and decency over business would mean Anet would give better value on the new HoT expansion only for current customers.

Okay enjoy what ever you are intending to do with this thread.

Decency, credibility and affection are also main factors when you monetize on aesthetic content. If a subscription games loses credibility, they still retain the full value of their subscription, as long as players don’t completely quit the game.
When a f2p game with cash shop model loses credibility everyone starts purchasing less.

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Actually when you buy a battle chest you get separate serial codes for each game. I can take my free core game and throw it to a friend or make a second account. In this case I buy this bundle and if I already have the core game then that part of the bundle just disappears.

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

That’s new, since evem Anet used the word bundle and then said “you can’t unbundle”.
Also, the game is free? It was on the shop for 40 euros last week. It drops faster than your credibility when you make such statements.

Oh who said “bundle”? I think they made an error by saying that. This is the problem with everyone using popular words, its inaccurate. My description of the situation is correct.

But you aren’t talking about what Anet actually stated, so your description is correct but the reality descripted is non-existant.

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

except it is :^) Since they removed the core game from the shop and all.
You can deny it, but facts are facts regardless of your approvation.

Or , you know, you can try to convince all the other medias that they are also wrong. Go on, there is a thread in the first page with the list of sites discussing the situation.

What other media? The ones that agree that giving new players the core game with purchase of the expansion is a smart idea and that all the other companies out there do pretty much the same thing yet people dont kitten and complain to them?

How can something also be an opinion and fact? The fact is your buying HoT for $50.

Oh, so that’s your problem, you’re in denial
Good to know.

What denial where? Massively said basically quit complaining, I paid 100 dollars for skyrim and now its 5 dollars but you dont see us kittening. It just seems like you guys are so salty because you want something for free and arent getting it.

Sure, you paid 100 dollars , what , 4 years ago?
And now it still costs , what? 20? And you have to pay it or wait for sales, otherwise it’s 20. Not “free with Dawnguard”. Not, “free with dragonborn”.

I’ll quote;
“That said, ArenaNet probably should have thrown its loyalists a bone to engender a fresh round of goodwill and soften them up for that $50 price point. That’s a standard way to keep existing customers happy and virally promoting their games. Hey, I know! How about a free character slot so we can roll up a Revenant? Yeah! Great idea, internet!”
[—-]
“Is this a fair debate for the MMO community to have? Sure. But do it reasonably and rationally. If you’re using the words “*entitled*” or “slap in the face” or “ boycott ,” you’re doing it wrong.”
[—-]
“This is one of the bigger screw-ups in a long history of big ones for ANet, but it won’t be the last, no matter how much Reddit rages”

They could of made it free if they wanted too. Its their game, if they want to give it away for free thats their choice. GW2 was released 3 years ago, if they make it cost 5 bucks or free it shouldnt matter to a veteran player. The only people it should matter to is the people who paid for the game recently and now have to pay again for the expansion thus losing money.

Little math lesson:
5 is greater than 1 . 5 times greater.
10 is greater than 1. 10 Times greater.
1 is greater than zero. Infinite times greater.
If core game was free, it’s worth would be zero. if they include it in HoT, they give it away for free, as if the added value was zero.
By offering this deal only to new players, they are reducing the number greater than zero that makes up the value of the core game to zero.
Unless you are Big Boss at the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4, you can’t reduce 1 back to zero.

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Actually when you buy a battle chest you get separate serial codes for each game. I can take my free core game and throw it to a friend or make a second account. In this case I buy this bundle and if I already have the core game then that part of the bundle just disappears.

Umh, that’s not how it worked for me. But I purchased through the blizzard store. Anyway, I had nothing, so I purchased the battle chest at a 50% sale (7.5 Euros) and then purchased WoW at 45 Euros. Which were actually 58 since it included a month of free time.

Coulter.2315:

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Actually when you buy a battle chest you get separate serial codes for each game. I can take my free core game and throw it to a friend or make a second account. In this case I buy this bundle and if I already have the core game then that part of the bundle just disappears.

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

That’s new, since evem Anet used the word bundle and then said “you can’t unbundle”.
Also, the game is free? It was on the shop for 40 euros last week. It drops faster than your credibility when you make such statements.

Jongi.7612:

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

so player A pays $50 gets core +HoT
Player B already owning core pays $50 and only gets HoT

Tell me more how that’s not bait and switch xD- I enjoy

especially when “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” is on the buy page

It’s not bait and switch. It’s an incentive for new players to buy HoT. They could have also offered the core game on a reduced price but apparently they felt generous and gave it for free if you’re a new player.

or they could have had a reduced HoT deal for existing players with the current price package for new players ( this is where the rage is stemming)

Its not bait and switch? so you have access to play on the second core game purchased through this promotion?

Again, stop thinking about what other people get. It’s none of your business if Bob gets a better deal because he’s a new player. All you have to ask yourself is “is HoT worth 50$ for ME”. That is something only you can decide and the answer should not be influenced if some other guy gets a free core game/character slot/mini/unicorn/whatever and you don’t.

You’ll be happier if you adopt this kind of non-envious thinking. Trust me.

You’re not purchasing a second core game. You are purchasing HoT. If you are a new player you get the core game for free.

again “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” from the buy page

I get that you don’t mind throwing ma’s money away without care – why should you you didn’t have to work for it, As for me When i purchase something i going to make sure i get what i paid for. If im paying for a new core game then im going to make sure i can use that new core game.

Why does this matter to you anyways? seriously worst case scenario they lower the price either refunding you back the difference or offering something else to make up the difference… you still benefit either way. So before telling me the value of a dollar ( which is pretty clear since your paying more for less) take a page out of your own autobiography because it’s "none of your business " what another player is getting. right?

And theres a strawman. I make my own money thanks. And your not paying for the core game again. Its been explained and explained and explained and its just not getting through.

It’s not getting through because it’s false. It’s just Anet wording it that way, but the game is no longer in the shop, and last time it was it costed 40 euros. 20 or 10 during sales.

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

except it is :^) Since they removed the core game from the shop and all.
You can deny it, but facts are facts regardless of your approvation.

Or , you know, you can try to convince all the other medias that they are also wrong. Go on, there is a thread in the first page with the list of sites discussing the situation.

What other media? The ones that agree that giving new players the core game with purchase of the expansion is a smart idea and that all the other companies out there do pretty much the same thing yet people dont kitten and complain to them?

How can something also be an opinion and fact? The fact is your buying HoT for $50.

Oh, so that’s your problem, you’re in denial
Good to know.

What denial where? Massively said basically quit complaining, I paid 100 dollars for skyrim and now its 5 dollars but you dont see us kittening. It just seems like you guys are so salty because you want something for free and arent getting it.

Sure, you paid 100 dollars , what , 4 years ago?
And now it still costs , what? 15? And you have to pay it or wait for sales, otherwise it’s 15. Not “free with Dawnguard”. Not, “free with dragonborn”. You pay 15 bucks and then, if you want, you also buy the DLC.

I’ll quote;
“That said, ArenaNet probably should have thrown its loyalists a bone to engender a fresh round of goodwill and soften them up for that $50 price point. That’s a standard way to keep existing customers happy and virally promoting their games. Hey, I know! How about a free character slot so we can roll up a Revenant? Yeah! Great idea, internet!”
[—-]
“Is this a fair debate for the MMO community to have? Sure. But do it reasonably and rationally. If you’re using the words “*entitled*” or “slap in the face” or “ boycott ,” you’re doing it wrong.”
[—-]
“This is one of the bigger screw-ups in a long history of big ones for ANet, but it won’t be the last, no matter how much Reddit rages”

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

except it is :^) Since they removed the core game from the shop and all.
You can deny it, but facts are facts regardless of your approvation.

Or , you know, you can try to convince all the other medias that they are also wrong. Go on, there is a thread in the first page with the list of sites discussing the situation.

What other media? The ones that agree that giving new players the core game with purchase of the expansion is a smart idea and that all the other companies out there do pretty much the same thing yet people dont kitten and complain to them?

How can something also be an opinion and fact? The fact is your buying HoT for $50.

Oh, so that’s your problem, you’re in denial
Good to know.

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Jongi.7612:

Lyger.5429:

I think we need to stop replying to posts like these cause they clearly don’t see where others are coming from and just keep defending Arena and their purchase.

I see where people are coming from. And its wrong. Its not even an opinion at this point, they are saying “this certain thing is happening” when it really isnt.

except it is :^) Since they removed the core game from the shop and all.
You can deny it, but facts are facts regardless of your approvation.

Or , you know, you can try to convince all the other medias that they are also wrong. Go on, there is a thread in the first page with the list of sites discussing the situation.

I think so far they are pretty much the same. They all agree that changing the faq overnight is shady and that not giving veterans something else in place of the core game they already have is lousy.

Both things are perfectly legal but they are a marketing disaster and they suggest NC Soft or Arena Net to reconsider to control damage on the long run.

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

You paid for GW2 and the core game that you already purchased for 70$ 3 years ago. Really, it’s written on the page, it’s hard not to notice it.

Unless, you for it, then you activate it, and then Arena Net eats up your second core game.
Which has value. But it’s taken from you.
If you decide to upgrade an account you lose value.
Because of that , at the end of the day, you bought less than a new player for the same price. It’s that simple.

So it’s back to the whole value argument? That’s not what Solori was talking about. The fact still stands: if you purchase HoT for 50% you get the core game for free (so you can access HoT in the first place) if you don’t already own it.

I don’t care if a new player gets a better deal than I do. He’s a new player, let him have the better deal.

Well, if you don’t care about other players getting the equivalent of (at the very least) 10 euros(minimum price that Gw2 ever reached at the store)= 800 gems= 150 gold for free just because they are new players, even if they are paying the same price, it doesn’t mean that everyone else doesn’t.
Your acceptance of an unfair treatment shouldn’t be applied to everybody.

Have you protested other games that have done this like WoW? Or Skyrim where the game was 100 dollars and now its like 5 or what about skins in other games or even this one, did you complain that someone got a skin for 50% and you didnt? If you didnt do it there then why are you doing it here?

I hoped you said that :*
WOW: The expansions cost 45 Euros. You have the base game? Fine. You don’t? 15 euros for all previous expansions. 7.5 if the battle chest is on sale.
Skyrim: had 2 major dlc and one minor dlc. None of them are standalone and all of them require the base game which is not given away for free. I paid Skyrim with the full DLC 10 euros, but those who had the base game would have paid only 5. The value of the game dropped, not vanished.
Skins in other games like LOL: well, maybe if you actually played LoL you would knew that riot games refunds skins purchased in the last 2 weeks if they go on sale unannounced, but they don’t refund if they already announced the schedule for that given month.

So, in all of your examples, the producer/developers consider that older players should still get a fair deal when compared to new players, and while the value of their investment dropped over time due to aging, it didn’t vanish.

Do you see that 15 dollars for all expansions isnt equal to the 250 if you bought each one? And we arent talking about if you bought a skin 2 weeks ago and then it went on sale, we are talking about buying it at launch and 3 years later it going on sale. Its no different whan what ANet is doing.

250 over what, 8 years? 9?
BTW, LoL is totally free to play, never had to purchase rune pages or champions with money, my investments were purely cosmetics.

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

You paid for GW2 and the core game that you already purchased for 70$ 3 years ago. Really, it’s written on the page, it’s hard not to notice it.

Unless, you for it, then you activate it, and then Arena Net eats up your second core game.
Which has value. But it’s taken from you.
If you decide to upgrade an account you lose value.
Because of that , at the end of the day, you bought less than a new player for the same price. It’s that simple.

So it’s back to the whole value argument? That’s not what Solori was talking about. The fact still stands: if you purchase HoT for 50% you get the core game for free (so you can access HoT in the first place) if you don’t already own it.

I don’t care if a new player gets a better deal than I do. He’s a new player, let him have the better deal.

Well, if you don’t care about other players getting the equivalent of (at the very least) 10 euros(minimum price that Gw2 ever reached at the store)= 800 gems= 150 gold for free just because they are new players, even if they are paying the same price, it doesn’t mean that everyone else doesn’t.

Of course not. You’re entitled to your envy.

Jongi.7612:

Then I want to see you on the WoW forums saying that all the WoW expansions should be the price they were on release, protesting agaisnt steam for having sales and anything of the sort. ANet are doing the exact same things the other companies did regarding previous games and expansions or even older games. The scenario is no different.

Exactly. Arenanet offers you to access HoT for 50$ no matter if you already own the game or not. That’s what you pay for and that is what you get. You just happen to be in luck if you’re a new player but again…you missed out for three years.

And you’re entitled to your masochism.
Read the reply to Jongi regarding the WoW example.

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

You paid for GW2 and the core game that you already purchased for 70$ 3 years ago. Really, it’s written on the page, it’s hard not to notice it.

Unless, you for it, then you activate it, and then Arena Net eats up your second core game.
Which has value. But it’s taken from you.
If you decide to upgrade an account you lose value.
Because of that , at the end of the day, you bought less than a new player for the same price. It’s that simple.

So it’s back to the whole value argument? That’s not what Solori was talking about. The fact still stands: if you purchase HoT for 50% you get the core game for free (so you can access HoT in the first place) if you don’t already own it.

I don’t care if a new player gets a better deal than I do. He’s a new player, let him have the better deal.

Well, if you don’t care about other players getting the equivalent of (at the very least) 10 euros(minimum price that Gw2 ever reached at the store)= 800 gems= 150 gold for free just because they are new players, even if they are paying the same price, it doesn’t mean that everyone else doesn’t.
Your acceptance of an unfair treatment shouldn’t be applied to everybody.

Have you protested other games that have done this like WoW? Or Skyrim where the game was 100 dollars and now its like 5 or what about skins in other games or even this one, did you complain that someone got a skin for 50% and you didnt? If you didnt do it there then why are you doing it here?

I hoped you said that :*
WOW: The expansions cost 45 Euros. You have the base game? Fine. You don’t? 15 euros for all previous expansions. 7.5 if the battle chest is on sale.
Skyrim: had 2 major dlc and one minor dlc. None of them are standalone and all of them require the base game which is not given away for free. I paid Skyrim with the full DLC 10 euros, but those who had the base game would have paid only 5. The value of the game dropped, not vanished.
Skins in other games like LOL: well, maybe if you actually played LoL you would knew that riot games refunds skins purchased in the last 2 weeks if they go on sale unannounced, but they don’t refund if they already announced the schedule for that given month.

So, in all of your examples, the producer/developers consider that older players should still get a fair deal when compared to new players, and while the value of their investment dropped over time due to aging, it didn’t vanish.

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

Why is is relevant what you have or had from 3 years ago.

RIGHT NOW.

When you go to the buy page, what does it say for standard?

A simple thing called reading goes a long way.
But to reiterate.
It doesn’t matter if you bought the game 3 years ago or 2.
This bundle RIGHT NOW
says (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
That means you are buying HoT and Gw2 Core.

It doesn’t say ANYWHERE ON THE FAQ OR BUY PAGE
You don’t get the core if you have one already.

So yes. YOU ARE buying a bundle when you buy HoT.

If English is not your first language please say so and I will use google translate to try and make this clearer.

Its relevant because you… you know… played the game. If you didnt play the game but still bought it 3 years ago, thats your fault.

It’s not really relevant because you played the game… after purchasing it.
You didn’t play it for free.
There is a market, there are competitos, Anet created a business model for his product and people adhered to it. It’s not like Anet gave everyone the game for free: the game had a value and now they are arbitrarily changing it as it fits their marketing scheme, even if it screws older players.

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

You paid for GW2 and the core game that you already purchased for 70$ 3 years ago. Really, it’s written on the page, it’s hard not to notice it.

Unless, you for it, then you activate it, and then Arena Net eats up your second core game.
Which has value. But it’s taken from you.
If you decide to upgrade an account you lose value.
Because of that , at the end of the day, you bought less than a new player for the same price. It’s that simple.

So it’s back to the whole value argument? That’s not what Solori was talking about. The fact still stands: if you purchase HoT for 50% you get the core game for free (so you can access HoT in the first place) if you don’t already own it.

I don’t care if a new player gets a better deal than I do. He’s a new player, let him have the better deal.

Well, if you don’t care about other players getting the equivalent of (at the very least) 10 euros(minimum price that Gw2 ever reached at the store)= 800 gems= 150 gold for free just because they are new players, even if they are paying the same price, it doesn’t mean that everyone else doesn’t.
Your acceptance of an unfair treatment shouldn’t be applied to everybody.

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

You paid for GW2 and the core game that you already purchased for 70$ 3 years ago. Really, it’s written on the page, it’s hard not to notice it.

Unless, you for it, then you activate it, and then Arena Net eats up your second core game.
Which has value. But it’s taken from you.
If you decide to upgrade an account you lose value.
Because of that , at the end of the day, you bought less than a new player for the same price. It’s that simple.

except you are, because there are additional costs with accounts that you can’t ignore. If there weren’t they’d give out free keys for core game to old players.

Except we are not children, thus we aren’t getting stuff for free. And it’s not about forks, which are good only to eat pasta, is about a core game that offers many hours of gameplay with or without the expansion. And that thus can’t just “vanish into thin air” when purchased by someone who already owns the game. OR be forced to abandon his old account to move in the new one.

Jongi.7612:

Arkblue.6129:

I don’t think you can really play the “entitlement” card here since even many MMO sites are reporting the news and are also highlighting how vets are receiving a worse deal for the pre-purchase, suggesting Anet to sweeten the dail and make the 2 options equal.

Explain how they are getting a worse deal. Did you forget that the Vets got to play for 3 years, they got free level 20 character boosts and so on? Did these MMO sites report on that or are they just looking at it as “new players get something vet players dont so then its unfair”?

Why don’t you explain how they are getting a good deal to pc gamer, pc nation, eurogamer and so on?

I don’t think you can really play the “entitlement” card here since even many MMO sites are reporting the news and are also highlighting how vets are receiving a worse deal for the pre-purchase, suggesting Anet to sweeten the dail and make the 2 options equal.

“You didn’t pay for LS!”
Well, who did? Who would?
If we compare living story to other games, it amounts to something like , IDK, a quest chain? Ok, maybe many quest chain.
Thing is, quest chain are included usually in the base product. It’s just that GW2 had a different approach with hearts and so on.

But it also lacked other things, living story was meant to replace things as raid, raid tiers, and raid tiers, which also include story progression-
Example: Wrath of the Lich King did costs +/- as HoT, but it had 4 raid tiers (Naxx, Ulduar, ToCr, ICC) , and with each tier they added new quests,thing to do, and continued the quest chain for the legendary axe, Shadowmourne. Yeah, WoW had a subscription fee, but what I mean is that GW2 didn’t use the subscription model not out of generosity, but because they didn’t want to compete on a business model that required a steady output of PvE and PvP content.

Well, to be honest even the game press is starting to align with customers, or at least they understand their point of view and they deem it legit.
http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-players-rightly-upset-by-heart-of-thorns-pre-purchase-scheme/

Well, even most f2p offer the same kind of service that HoT refuses to include in a 50$ expansion (extra character slot).

Aerlen.5326:

I can see it now. They add in an 800 gem loyalty bonus for players who already own the core game. Some people don’t spend it to buy a character slot and continue complaining they deserve one anyhow.

I’ll get the popcorn…

Actually, adding a character slot would be better. They still give something that some players could not want, but, seriously, in all bundles there is something that players could not want. However, they eliminate any value gap between the new player purchase-old player purchase of the expansion. Thus people wouldn’t call the deal unfair to older players anymore.

So why you compare them? You can’t. So don’t. Otherwise you must admit that people pay more for other games expansion because they want more. And that’s fair.
Different models for different people.

However is the gw2 playerbase that is kittened now, not the WoW playerbase.
And yeah, they are kittened, just look at Reddit. I can’t fathom the number of lost sales due to this marketing blunder.

Don’t compare WoW expansion with Heart of Thorns, please… it’s just… please don’t.
I don’t care in the difference in content since we don’t pay sub fees on GW2, but call me when HoT gets 3 raid tiers. Maybe 4.
Oh, and 8 new dungeons.

yanipheonu.5798:

Largest flaw in this whole theory: it’s not an equivalent value. It doesn’t cost Anet ten dollars to give a new player an account. It just costs whatever it does to activate the account and keep them on them on the servers.

The $50 will go to the same places it usually does: development time, advertisement, the usual business. GW2 vanilla does not cost 20 percent of HoT’s budget. That’s absurd.

This in all likelyhood costs very little for Anet at this point, and as such, even if GW2 vanilla was not included with the expansion, we would not see much if any impact on the final price.

This expansion would cost the same, with or without new players getting a GW2 account.

And seriously, if the worst thing they do is favour new players a bit, you really gotta see how bad it gets in the really scummy MMOs out there. This ain’t a mobile cash grab, this is just people getting worked up over nothing.

Hell, I wish more companies let new players the vanilla game for buying the expansion.

I’ll explain why it’s not that simple. I understant that new players should be attracted somehow, but this shouldn’t happen at the expenses of older customers.

When this kind of thing went down with other services, such as phone line contracts, cable contracts, it spawned the “boomerang” effect. Which meant, customer lost any loyalty with the service provider.

“Well, I could stay here and pay more for the same service that new users are getting cheaper OR I could switch to another similar provider that offers me more for that same price.”
It happened a lot in the past, because of that companies started to cater more to their longtime customers.