Guild Wars 2

Harper.4173:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Zerk Meta is dying….
Sinister will take it place except vs condition resisting foes or objects.

Except conditions will get nerfed in the next update. Things melt so fast it’s practically a certainty condi will be nerfed

I don’t think they will be nerfed to the point they will be no longer relevant. As long as condition can stacks, you are still going to have an hard time if you don’t cleanse those 10 burning stacks on you.
Sure, they might wanna balance how available they are and the damage they do. But overall, don’t expect them to return to pre-patch.

Afya.5842:

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

Problem is in requirements:

Direct damage build needs 3 dmg stats to max dmg – ie Zerker equip – thus forcing you to be glass cannon.
Condition build needs only 1 dmg stat to shine allowing you to be incredibly tanky in Dire set.

3 stats: condition damage, precision, condition duration

Also defense against power dmg is quite straightforward – mitigation + dodge.
But defense against condition damage requires cleanse, which some classes have bad access too and some has to do big compromises in their builds to have some. Also as lot of conditions is spammable, so cleanse can be quite impotent sometime.

some classes also have limited access to mitigation/vigor.

As for mitigation, aegis vigor buffs, some classes are better than others at handling conditions for their team.
Like a Mesmer with the Temporal Enchanter trait.

phys.7689:

Arkblue.6129:

phys.7689:

Arkblue.6129:

Unlike direct damage, Condition Damage can be cleansed and transferred. Also, the Resistance boon could become more available in the future reducing the effectiveness of Conditions.

While we are discussing this, I think that no build should always be the top dps regardless of content.
Assassin’s and Zerker’s should come close in terms of DPS, but I don’t see why Rampager or Sinister shouldn’t be there competing in the same range of viability.

I think Dire is really effective 1v1, but even there, if you can cleanse conditions, a Dire build deals almost no direct damage.

Condi cleanse isnt a magical solution.

Many cleans cure a random condition
Many cleanses cure only a few conditions at a time
Many cleanses require you to take specific specialization
Many condi cleanses use up a utility slot.

Right now condi ramps up to fast and can be re applied to easily for condi cleanse to be the answer for many jobs.

Condi was already extremely good in pvp and wvw. It definately didnt need multiple buffs.

Even most condition builds require multiple trait lines to work efficiently, otherwise you don’t have enough sources of Conditions to keep the Condition Damage up.

Almost every dps build requires multi traits, thats not unique to condi builds.

Exactly, so “traiting for condition removal” is not a good argument since, you know, condition damage are meant to work well if you don’t have condi removal.

Bear in mind, CD is too strong now, but some of those arguments are moot points.

phys.7689:

Arkblue.6129:

Unlike direct damage, Condition Damage can be cleansed and transferred. Also, the Resistance boon could become more available in the future reducing the effectiveness of Conditions.

While we are discussing this, I think that no build should always be the top dps regardless of content.
Assassin’s and Zerker’s should come close in terms of DPS, but I don’t see why Rampager or Sinister shouldn’t be there competing in the same range of viability.

I think Dire is really effective 1v1, but even there, if you can cleanse conditions, a Dire build deals almost no direct damage.

Condi cleanse isnt a magical solution.

Many cleans cure a random condition
Many cleanses cure only a few conditions at a time
Many cleanses require you to take specific specialization
Many condi cleanses use up a utility slot.

Right now condi ramps up to fast and can be re applied to easily for condi cleanse to be the answer for many jobs.

Condi was already extremely good in pvp and wvw. It definately didnt need multiple buffs.

Even most condition builds require multiple trait lines to work efficiently, otherwise you don’t have enough sources of Conditions to keep the Condition Damage up.

Unlike direct damage, Condition Damage can be cleansed and transferred. Also, the Resistance boon could become more available in the future reducing the effectiveness of Conditions.

While we are discussing this, I think that no build should always be the top dps regardless of content.
Assassin’s and Zerker’s should come close in terms of DPS, but I don’t see why Rampager or Sinister shouldn’t be there competing in the same range of viability.

I think Dire is really effective 1v1, but even there, if you can cleanse conditions, a Dire build deals almost no direct damage.

They could differentiate it from poison with different scaling: i.e= bleeding more flat damage and less scaling while Burning has more scaling but less flat damage. Ot they add a new mechanic like “more damage when standing still or not casting”

We all agree that the current state of the game is a huge mess. While a lot of people are obviously pointing that out to conditions as the main culprits (and to an extent, they are right), I’d also add that most professions damage went up regardless of condition damage. For example, even in 1v1 Mesmers can now get 25 stacks of Might in a matter of seconds with Spatial Surge and Domination Traits. Basically, I think the first culprit is a massive power creep across all professions.

Currently Burning is really strong, but that comes from the fact that the last patch solved 2 frequent issues with this damaging condition: Burning damage now stacks, making abilities like Guardian’s Virtue of Justice much stronger in every game mode, and stacking it has turned from a short term Damage over Time, to a really short term damage over time. Overall I think Burning will really need a nerf either in damage, Condition Damage Scaling, but I’d refrain to nerf durations: when you nerf the durations but keep the damage intact, you reduce the damage but you have a condition damage that is still strong and has a low reaction time. Basically you would overlap the condition gameplay with the burst gameplay, and that’s not really a wise choice for gameplay and clarity.

Of course, with flat damage going up and condition damage stacking, World Bosses are now really easy (although I can’t say they were hard to begin with). While some bosses will certainly need some health increase, I wouldn’t mind if you added a little complexity to them. Not talking about new abilities to make the Fire Elemental a new Tequatls, but perhaps you could add some few interesting mechanics?
Bosses that periodically cleanse condition gaining boons (and then need boon stripping), reflects, blocks, bosses that switch between states of damage immunity or condition immunity. Also, It wouldn’t be that made if, with the health increase, you made some world bosses vulnerable to crit again, since it’s really sad to fight a world boss with just one third of your armor stats. First it was a necessity since otherwise no one would play anything other than zerker, but if you increase their health and make them a little more durable, people would still pick condition damage, especially now that is actually fun. Addind depth to world bosses is something that will keep the game fresh as, even after HoT will drop, many people would still run them either while levelling or for quick farm.

TL;DR:

1. Regardless of condition damage, there has been a huge increase in the damage sources across the game.
2. Burning might be too strong, but nerf it where it counts and don’t overlap condition damage with burst.
3. World Bosses need more health and/or new mechanics to keep up in relevancy. Then it might be possible to find a balance between Zerkers and other stat combinations.

Just my 2 cents, would be nice to gather more feedback in a fresh topic since the other one opened by JonPeters has already a discussion running.

Shifu.4321:

Random Wax Orc.7695:

-28% damage on an Elite range skill that reduces its dps to lower than auto-attacking with a rifle or using an already nerfed grenade kit is not a buff. It it were a buff, then please give that -28% damage buff to every other classes’ ranged skills in the next 24 hours.

Tuesday’s patch convinced me that the expansion was a good buy. Twenty four hours later, this nerf update took that all back. I am sick of everything fun to play getting ruined by people complaining that they aren’t automatically winning against a class they don’t like.

Even with the nerf, mortar still does more than rifle.

And it’s AoE.
And it has a 1/2 second cast time compared to Rifle’s 3/4 seconds.

Explain like I’m 5: Why can’t they just increase the health of world bosses, or add them more immunity abilities like aegis or resistance, and also fine-tune the PvP damage of conditions like they did with Confusion?

They could also introduce a diminishing return on the damage from too many stacks of condition.

Thanks, whoever did this either at ArenaNet or NC Soft.

Enrif.7359:

ImLegion.4018:

Points proven wrong on every game and still not giving up.
Its just not true what you all started.

wrong i’m still right on WoW.

2 of 3 classes i was wrong for LotRO, i admit that.

Everqeust, right.

You would be right if GW2 offered nine character slot for every new account.

BrooksP.4318:

Arkblue.6129:

It does. he said that other games, even with subscription, didn’t give away character slots for new classes and that was a lie.

Also, the character slot is just the equivalent of how much was worth gw2 core game at its lowest buying price.

From what I read he said they didn’t ALWAYS give out slots, which is true even for subs. Again a moot point in comparing.

GW2 holds no value now, comparing its lowest pre-expansion price to post is false. Especially since vanilla GW2 isn’t going to be vanilla, it will be HoT:GW2 since they are incorporating aspects of HoT into it. Not to mention all the events, skins, LS1 that people who bought vanilla got that new players don’t.

Except they won’t change dungeons, and most of the new content is HoT only.

Anyway, he did that WoW and LOTRO didn’t add character slots, when they did, so what he said is false. I could also mention f2p games like Vindictus that also added slots for new characters added.

BrooksP.4318:

Arkblue.6129:

It does: WoW had 1 character slot for each class available. When they added another class, they also added a slot.
GW2 starts with 5 slots for 8 classes and doesn’t add another slot for the ninth class.

It doesn’t. WoW was a sub, different models different standards. WoW also didn’t allow you to buy slots with ingame money. GW2 is designed to where if you want all classes active you have to purchase extra slots. This was implied on design as well as expansions. They could have, and should have, gave only 3 slots per copy, but it seems they did a middle ground by doing 1 for each race.

Love it or hate how Anet does business, but it should be expected from a B2P w/no P2W or massive paywalls.

It does. he said that other games, even with subscription, didn’t give away character slots for new classes and that was a lie.

Also, the character slot is just the equivalent of how much was worth gw2 core game at its lowest buying price.

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

Enrif.7359:

ImLegion.4018:

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

WoW has 50 character slots, ten per server, raised to eleven with the addition of the monk class. Also, you can create one character per class.

Where do you get your sources?

still, my statement is true, they didn’t added a new slot for the first new class. How many Slots are avaible is irrelevant for this statement. As i could say GW2 allow for 64 Slots.

because it wasn’t needed, since you already had the chance of creating one character per class, and it had also had dual talents and build templates so you could play a single class two ways.

And it is kitten relevant is you only get 5 slots initally. 59 slots are 590 euros in GW2, on WoW you get 50
for free, which means you get the equivalent of what gw2 sells for 450 euros.
Oh, and the possibility of having characters on different servers.

nope, not for free, for 15€ a monath. after 3 years = 540€. WoW is in its 10th year now so this means if you played from the very beginning you payed 1800 (36€ per Characerslot)for your 50 Slots + every expansion if you always buyed when they released.

But with that €15,— you don’t have a cashshop, where you can buy armor skins for € 10,— or buy bankslots for € 10,— or buy finishers and other stuff for a great sum of money. Yes as a GW2 you aren’t forced to use real money, you can use ingame gold.

But for the most casual players it will take long time to get something with ingame gold. When you calculate the stuff which people buy in item shop the costs of a sub for a WoW, is WoW cheaper and where you get more stuff to use.

you can buy mounts and pets, and even some cosmetic armor in WoW

---

true i made a mistake on the LotRO one. Its long ago since i played it, and i could only remember that you can buy the classes by itself without any Slots to it. Yet the Beorninger Class doesent seem to add a Slot, only if you buy it in a Bundle.

For the WoW example its true what i said, with the inclusion of the Death Knight they didn’t added slots. Also for the different added Race they didn’t. Only once the 11the class came.

And if you spent 10€ a month on the gamestore the last three years, you would have acces to more then enough characterslots(36). that you chosed to not do so, is not ANet’s fault. its their buisness model to live from the gemstore purchases.

Yet my statement stays, are there so many Expanson that added classes and slots at the same time? If so, you can name some for sure.

Again?
They didn’t add slots because it would be overabundant. it’s like if GW2 came out with nine characters slots for 8 professions.

All the expansions you said didn’t have character slots, actually had character slots. If you say that Death Knight didn’t come out with a character slot you are lying by omission since the game already had one character slot extra that almost no one used since leveling a single class twice in WoW is really, really rare.
Only for races they didn’t add slots because, you know, race is only aesthetics.
And yes, wow is adding aesthetic content now, but guess, what, WoW is now free to play for veteran players since they can purchase their subscription with gold if they want to.

still i didnt lied, i said they didnt added a slot, and thats what they done. that there were already slots for 10 classes doesn’t makes me a liar.

It does: WoW had 1 character slot for each class available. When they added another class, they also added a slot.
GW2 starts with 5 slots for 8 classes and doesn’t add another slot for the ninth class.

Henry.5713:

Honestly, I am a bit surprised how much this seems to bother people.

Some games gave you free slots, some didn’t. Don’t forget, the payment system is rather unique in the MMO world. You get off cheap in some regards but have to pay more in others. The game delivers great value for your money still.

It would been a gesture of goodwill towards their customers to be sure. There is no rule that says new characters come with an extra slot however.

Goodwill is what keep games running tbh :S Especially when they don’t actually need to invest money to play. Games like LoL or Dota2 or GW2 monetize on how much their players enjoy their content, since they don’t actually need to pay to play the game past the initial purchase.

Enrif.7359:

ImLegion.4018:

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

WoW has 50 character slots, ten per server, raised to eleven with the addition of the monk class. Also, you can create one character per class.

Where do you get your sources?

still, my statement is true, they didn’t added a new slot for the first new class. How many Slots are avaible is irrelevant for this statement. As i could say GW2 allow for 64 Slots.

because it wasn’t needed, since you already had the chance of creating one character per class, and it had also had dual talents and build templates so you could play a single class two ways.

And it is kitten relevant is you only get 5 slots initally. 59 slots are 590 euros in GW2, on WoW you get 50
for free, which means you get the equivalent of what gw2 sells for 450 euros.
Oh, and the possibility of having characters on different servers.

nope, not for free, for 15€ a monath. after 3 years = 540€. WoW is in its 10th year now so this means if you played from the very beginning you payed 1800 (36€ per Characerslot)for your 50 Slots + every expansion if you always buyed when they released.

But with that €15,— you don’t have a cashshop, where you can buy armor skins for € 10,— or buy bankslots for € 10,— or buy finishers and other stuff for a great sum of money. Yes as a GW2 you aren’t forced to use real money, you can use ingame gold.

But for the most casual players it will take long time to get something with ingame gold. When you calculate the stuff which people buy in item shop the costs of a sub for a WoW, is WoW cheaper and where you get more stuff to use.

you can buy mounts and pets, and even some cosmetic armor in WoW

---

true i made a mistake on the LotRO one. Its long ago since i played it, and i could only remember that you can buy the classes by itself without any Slots to it. Yet the Beorninger Class doesent seem to add a Slot, only if you buy it in a Bundle.

For the WoW example its true what i said, with the inclusion of the Death Knight they didn’t added slots. Also for the different added Race they didn’t. Only once the 11the class came.

And if you spent 10€ a month on the gamestore the last three years, you would have acces to more then enough characterslots(36). that you chosed to not do so, is not ANet’s fault. its their buisness model to live from the gemstore purchases.

Yet my statement stays, are there so many Expanson that added classes and slots at the same time? If so, you can name some for sure.

Again?
They didn’t add slots because it would be overabundant. it’s like if GW2 came out with nine characters slots for 8 professions.

All the expansions you said didn’t have character slots, actually had character slots. If you say that Death Knight didn’t come out with a character slot you are lying by omission since the game already had one character slot extra that almost no one used since leveling a single class twice in WoW is really, really rare.
Only for races they didn’t add slots because, you know, race is only aesthetics.
And yes, wow is adding aesthetic content now, but guess, what, WoW is now free to play for veteran players since they can purchase their subscription with gold if they want to.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Not to put a further damper on your thread… but you say LOTRO added 3 classes, yet you somehow you think you can lie and tell us that not every expansion that added a class also added a character slot for that class… which seems odd since we are all capable of using google…

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/LOTRO_Store_Mines_of_Moria

So, basically he didn’t get a single fact straight?

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

WoW has 50 character slots, ten per server, raised to eleven with the addition of the monk class. Also, you can create one character per class.

Where do you get your sources?

still, my statement is true, they didn’t added a new slot for the first new class. How many Slots are avaible is irrelevant for this statement. As i could say GW2 allow for 64 Slots.

because it wasn’t needed, since you already had the chance of creating one character per class, and it had also had dual talents and build templates so you could play a single class two ways.

And it is kitten relevant is you only get 5 slots initally. 59 slots are 590 euros in GW2, on WoW you get 50
for free, which means you get the equivalent of what gw2 sells for 450 euros.
Oh, and the possibility of having characters on different servers.

nope, not for free, for 15€ a monath. after 3 years = 540€. WoW is in its 10th year now so this means if you played from the very beginning you payed 1800 (36€ per Characerslot)for your 50 Slots + every expansion if you always buyed when they released.

because that’s another business model. Still, they did give out free slots for the eleventh class, so your argument doesn’t hold any water.

Enrif.7359:

Arkblue.6129:

WoW has 50 character slots, ten per server, raised to eleven with the addition of the monk class. Also, you can create one character per class.

Where do you get your sources?

still, my statement is true, they didn’t added a new slot for the first new class. How many Slots are avaible is irrelevant for this statement. As i could say GW2 allow for 64 Slots.

because it wasn’t needed, since you already had the chance of creating one character per class, and it had also had dual talents and build templates so you could play a single class two ways.

And it is kitten relevant is you only get 5 slots initally. 59 slots are 590 euros in GW2, on WoW you get 50 for free, which means you get the equivalent of what gw2 sells for 450 euros.
Oh, and the possibility of having characters on different servers.

WoW has 50 character slots, ten per server, raised to eleven with the addition of the monk class. Also, you can create one character per class.

Where do you get your sources?

Entenkommando.5208:

Arkblue.6129:

Entenkommando.5208:

Arkblue.6129:

Entenkommando.5208:

And if you get a character slot everyone who purchased the core game with it for free complains about getting treated worse again…
And if everyone gets one you’d still cry about the core game.

How are they treated worse? You’re talking nonsense.
They are getting a core game whose value was set at a nominal 40 euros, 20 or 10 during sales.

Just admit you want to nitpick.

They have been promised to get it for free.
So if you get a gift they are treated worse.

They are treated equal, they consider it worse because before that they were treated better.
Jeez.

You can’t do it that way.
They said you get the game for free and the expansion is 50$.
So if you get something like a character slot people would be kittened again because now it’s them who have to pay extra for that.

You have to handle it like A-Net said it. Not like they meant it. (Just like the FAQ problem)

They are getting 5 character slots. Not one.
The game is given for them for free, but it isn’t actually free, otherwise it wouldn’t be a gift, just something everyone has.
It’s like, idk, “purchase this thing from me and I’ll give you Realm of the Mad God, Tera, Aion, and many other f2p titles”.

So , if they complained because, while getting things for free, other players also got something of the same value, wouldn’t then they be the ENTITLED ones?

Entenkommando.5208:

Arkblue.6129:

Entenkommando.5208:

And if you get a character slot everyone who purchased the core game with it for free complains about getting treated worse again…
And if everyone gets one you’d still cry about the core game.

How are they treated worse? You’re talking nonsense.
They are getting a core game whose value was set at a nominal 40 euros, 20 or 10 during sales.

Just admit you want to nitpick.

They have been promised to get it for free.
So if you get a gift they are treated worse.

They are treated equal, they consider it worse because before that they were treated better.
Jeez.

OLD Player:" treat me as you treat new players".
NEW Player:“Don’t , I want to be treated better”.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand which one of them is actually….wait for it…ENTITLED.

Entenkommando.5208:

And if you get a character slot everyone who purchased the core game with it for free complains about getting treated worse again…
And if everyone gets one you’d still cry about the core game.

How are they treated worse? You’re talking nonsense.
They are getting a core game whose value was set at a nominal 40 euros, 20 or 10 during sales.

Just admit you want to nitpick.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ugh, its just a promotional gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s no different than black friday sales where the first ‘x’ number of customers get ‘y’ where ‘y’ is an additional discount or a free item or what have you. In this particular instance the promotion is simply ‘get the core game free if you don’t current have an account.’ Would you people honestly be placated if they substituted a character slot for those that already have an account? I’m sure some of you would, but I guarantee there would be others that wouldn’t. It becomes a lose-lose scenario for anet.

Nah, if they put in a character slot no one could complain.
GW2 at its minimum costed 10 euros.
A character slot is the rough equivalent of 10 euros (with gems).

It would be fair.

selan.8354:

Yargesh.4965:

My veteran eyes think it is a really good thing that the base game is free to those joining now.
My veteran eyes have seen a lot of cool things in game over the years, no regrets.
My veteran eyes watched as my veteran hands typed my veteran credit card number.

and u are posting this because…? u wanna start a fight with everyone here or flame the OP? cause that is the only reason

He has the right to voice his opinion.
As we all have.
Many other players already expressed theirs, and that treating new customers better than old customers is a poor marketing decision.

This wouldn’t be a problem, unless Anet is dead serious in selling 2M subscription at full price.
In that case, I feel sorry for them, because I’m quite sure this little faux pas will affect HoT prepurchase in the short term, the HoT purchase in the long term, and even gem sales.

Vayne.8563:

meeflak.9714:

Vayne.8563:

Except they they’ve been selling that game for $10 multiple times already, so OP, how did you feel that thousands of people (probably more) bought it for $10?

As I said, my concerns are not new players getting the game for cheap, or in this case, free. My concern is arena net catering to new players while leaving the veterans out. I support bringing in new players. I don’t support leaving your loyall customers in the dark

I’m sorry but what you’re saying is every time a company drops a price on something for someone, they should give you something else. Presumably, your reward for the game is playing. You bought the game to play. What did we get? Log in rewards. We’ve been logging in longer.

Games drop in price all the time. Other companies don’t automatically give something to vets when they drop the price for new people. And you know, it would be nice if Anet did give me something for being the support I am, but you know, thousands of hours of fun is what I got for my money.

I think that the way the request is phrased makes it sound like everyone else is doing something different. In reality, MMO players are often paying more to get in early. In every single MMO I can think of this is true. The early you’re in, the more you pay but you also have more time with the game.

Would it have been nice to get something. Sure. Is it something wrong that a company is reducing the price on something, even to 0 to try to get more customers.

It’s pretty much business as usual. Just be happy you weren’t play ESO since launch or SWToR since launch, or even WoW since launch, or Lotro or DDO, because those guys got screwed in a much larger way.

1 is infinite times greater than 0.
The price of games drop to a fraction of their original value, different than zero.
when you reduce that value to zero, and Anet did, then you should reward those who purchased the game before you reduced that to zero.
Who does this?
TESO.
Wildstar.
Aion.
And many others.

I’ll repeat.
1 is infinite times greater than 0
even if I paid the game 20 euros and just 1 month later there was another sale at 10 euro, I wasn’t mad.
but 20 is just two times greater than 10, not infinite.

Anet has divided by zero, now the consequences are for everyone to see.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Arkblue.6129:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’ve seen WoW do they exact same kitten.

Except the battle chest costs 15 euros, and 15 euros is greater than zero , so , no, WoW doesn’t devalue your previously purchased content as much.

When I started playing WoW, I purchased BC and the base game for $50. It wasn’t 50$ for BC and then however much extra for the base game. $50. Period. Since the BC expansion was 50…how much does that make the base game? 0. How is that not the same thing?

As for WoW not devaluing your previously content “as much” just lofl. Sure…upping your gear level and raising your level cap and making the previous content worthless isn’t devaluing your previous purchase at all.

Not really, dungeons are still playable, only thing that isn’t accessible any longer are previous raids. Altough they are working on it with timewalker. I can’t remember one time where they didn’t put the expansion at the same price with or without core game. When I purchased WoD it was necessary to purchase the battle chest, unless you already had mop.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’ve seen WoW do they exact same kitten.

Except the battle chest costs 15 euros, and 15 euros is greater than zero , so , no, WoW doesn’t devalue your previously purchased content as much.
Arena net devalues 45 to zero over 3 years.
WoW devalues 45 to 15.

Julie Yann.5379:

The devs, forum staff, customer support staff and all the other good people working at Anet don;t deserve this. The kittenheads that came up with this pricing scheme and those responsible for the shady business practices deserve every bit of it.

^This. While the developers don’t deserve the backlash, it’s evident that the marketing and pricing scheme was ll-thought and is an absolute mess for everyone under every aspect.

Since you mentioned fallout 4. Imagine if, with the preorder of fallout 4, you got fallout 3 for free. Of course players who never had played Fallout 3 would get a great deal.
Players who already have fallout 3 would be able to gift that key to a friend.

Instead, Anet chose this convoluted scheme that just generates an unfair return for older players and made them an horrible advertising just at the peak of the expansion hype.

ElectricGoat.8253:

See here’s thing you bought it at full price when it came out. You can’t expect anet to bend over just for you cause you bought it early. You crazy. YOU bought it early so YOU deal with the consequences.

Ex: You buy a car, its an ok car. Goes places. SKip a few months and theres a sale on the car. OH NOEZ you can’t get the sale because you already bought it and you needed a car.

That is the same exact thing here. Welcome to being an Adult.

Except we are complaining about cars. We are complaining about how when you purchase a new car they give 2 cars to new customers and 1 cars to who already owns one for the same price.

Furious.2867:

Ravenmoon.5318:

OP have you considered the possibility that this is precisely why you don’t own a game studio? Or a supermarket. Or anything that deals with customers directly. Oh snap.

Also lack of intelligence is not a disease <O>

I don’t own a game studio because I’d hate to have customers like you.

No, probably because you would close the day after you realized saying “you’re not happy, don’t buy it” costed your game studio several millions of income.
especially when the issue is legit and you are already hovering on the edge of false advertising.

Tirien.1326:

These people live in a dreamworld. They have little to no idea how the real world works.
I wish they were right, man i would love it, infact, today i’m gonna call the store that sold me my current computer around 4 years ago, and ask if i can get my money back.

It costed me around 2k -2,5k and is on sale today for 1k – 1,2k, not only that but you get more for that price, a mouse & keyboard and a decent sound system (Better than i have now).
Which means, these noobs that go in and buy that today will get a better price than me?! Even tho i shop there frequently!

Seriously, don’t they hear themselves?

That example doesn’t fly.
When I go to the computer shops asking for building a better device, they of course charge me the same wether or not I have a pc.

Point is, I do have a pc.
And it might be 4 years old, but is still running. I could probably sell it at one tenth of it’s original value, since, while it’s quite old and perhaps cannot run the latest technology, it’s still good for anything else and 4 year old games.

Otherwise, i can just use it as backup.

Which is something isn’t happening with this expansion, here the outrage.

Furious.2867:

I’ve read people complain about supporting the game for 3 years and how it’s unfair for them to buy again. That logic is so flawed because it dismissed all the content they’ve enjoyed that new buyers will never experience.

So, what you are currently trying to say is that new players won’t be able to access the core game maps, events, dungeons, and WvW maps?
Whoa, what a scam for new players :^)

Windsagio.1340:

Ricky.4706:

to make your argument stand, you have to show me an un-expanded version of guildwars 2 on their site that i can purchase.

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

To put it another way, if it’s not “fairness” (which is inherently an entitlement argument), what is the reason so many people are upset?

Well, yeah, if you put it that way, everyone is entitled to fairness :v

papry.8096:

Arkblue.6129:

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.

Since when putting the core game in the only expansion is totally equivalent to putting the previous expansion in the core game when the next expansion hit ?
There must be something that I miss.

Even then Blizzard gave to the people that owned the previous expansion something.
So yeah Anet is really doing it well.

PS: I missed a part of the discussion; oh straylight again.
Doing it’s “dodgy style argument”.

because otherwise the price would inevitably rise up.
let’s say 45 euros per expansion+ 60 euros base game at release would be something close to 285 euros.
Plus, the vanilla game is not 3 years old like GW2 vanilla, is ten years old.
And the first expansion is 8 years old.
And so on: of course it makes more sense to add previous expansion in a single package.

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

If you separate the game into core and expansion: core value is zero. expansion is 50$
If you see it as one big game that is being updated by HoT: 50$

So the game is free? I will be able to open free accounts when HoT drops? I don’t think so.

No, it’s not free. It’s 50$ in both scenarios I listed.

Thus you are acknoledging that Anet is selling 2 different products at the same price.
You did say “both scenarios”.
And you also said that the value is different, since you said that the Core Game is not free.

No, I simply offered two different scenarios to accomodate the person who asked the question. Personally, I see the game as one big game with a core-part and and HoT-part. The core-part being a free bonus if you purchase HoT.

To answer the question again “what is the worth of Guild Wars 2”. It’s 50$. That’s how much you have to pay to play Guild Wars 2 with all its features once HoT releases.

But last week was 40 euros. Sometimes even 10. now they say HoT is 50. And HoT+Gw2 is 50. So gw2 is zero? If not zero, how much?

GW2 (core plus HoT) is not zero. It’s 0$+50$.

You suck at math.
Sorry, you can’t have it your way, it’s either zero or 50.

That’s why I said IF you see the game as two seperate parts (core + expansion) it’s 0$+50$. Otherwise it’s just 50$. The old content just becomes significantly less valuable once HoT hits and thus is given away for free if you purchas HoT (or GW2 2.0 however you want to call it)

So it’s zero when HoT is out?
Then it should be given out for free.
Or it’s not zero, and veterans should get something of the same value so that both packages have the same value.

It is given for free. New players get it for free if they purchase HoT. The value of HoT is $50. If you already own the core game then you can safely ignore that since you already enjoyed it for years.

Again, what is your problem exactly? Everyone pays 50$ and everyone gets HoT.

Alas, if you say that gw2 as it stands has zero value, then they should really consider how bad they devaluate their product over time.

Even skyrim is still worth 15 euros.

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

If you separate the game into core and expansion: core value is zero. expansion is 50$
If you see it as one big game that is being updated by HoT: 50$

So the game is free? I will be able to open free accounts when HoT drops? I don’t think so.

No, it’s not free. It’s 50$ in both scenarios I listed.

Thus you are acknoledging that Anet is selling 2 different products at the same price.
You did say “both scenarios”.
And you also said that the value is different, since you said that the Core Game is not free.

No, I simply offered two different scenarios to accomodate the person who asked the question. Personally, I see the game as one big game with a core-part and and HoT-part. The core-part being a free bonus if you purchase HoT.

To answer the question again “what is the worth of Guild Wars 2”. It’s 50$. That’s how much you have to pay to play Guild Wars 2 with all its features once HoT releases.

But last week was 40 euros. Sometimes even 10. now they say HoT is 50. And HoT+Gw2 is 50. So gw2 is zero? If not zero, how much?

GW2 (core plus HoT) is not zero. It’s 0$+50$.

You suck at math.
Sorry, you can’t have it your way, it’s either zero or 50.

That’s why I said IF you see the game as two seperate parts (core + expansion) it’s 0$+50$. Otherwise it’s just 50$. The old content just becomes significantly less valuable once HoT hits and thus is given away for free if you purchas HoT (or GW2 2.0 however you want to call it)

So it’s zero when HoT is out?
Then it should be given out for free.
Or it’s not zero, and veterans should get something of the same value so that both packages have the same value.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Lets solve this once and for all.

I as a customer do not feel the current deal is fair and want to change it, which is what some of the player-base is currently trying to do.

OP’s opinion on this is irrelevant to this, A-nets opinion is irrelevant to this , all that matters is that I feel it is as such and as a customer / potential customer it is perfectly within my prerogative to attempt to negotiate a better deal.

Feels are not important. Facts are.
And facts are: the value of HoT is function of who purchases it. This is not fair. This creates a gap in the return for old or incoming customers.

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

If you separate the game into core and expansion: core value is zero. expansion is 50$
If you see it as one big game that is being updated by HoT: 50$

So the game is free? I will be able to open free accounts when HoT drops? I don’t think so.

No, it’s not free. It’s 50$ in both scenarios I listed.

Thus you are acknoledging that Anet is selling 2 different products at the same price.
You did say “both scenarios”.
And you also said that the value is different, since you said that the Core Game is not free.

No, I simply offered two different scenarios to accomodate the person who asked the question. Personally, I see the game as one big game with a core-part and and HoT-part. The core-part being a free bonus if you purchase HoT.

To answer the question again “what is the worth of Guild Wars 2”. It’s 50$. That’s how much you have to pay to play Guild Wars 2 with all its features once HoT releases.

But last week was 40 euros. Sometimes even 10. now they say HoT is 50. And HoT+Gw2 is 50. So gw2 is zero? If not zero, how much?

GW2 (core plus HoT) is not zero. It’s 0$+50$.

You suck at math.
Sorry, you can’t have it your way, it’s either zero or 50.

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

If you separate the game into core and expansion: core value is zero. expansion is 50$
If you see it as one big game that is being updated by HoT: 50$

So the game is free? I will be able to open free accounts when HoT drops? I don’t think so.

No, it’s not free. It’s 50$ in both scenarios I listed.

Thus you are acknoledging that Anet is selling 2 different products at the same price.
You did say “both scenarios”.
And you also said that the value is different, since you said that the Core Game is not free.

No, I simply offered two different scenarios to accomodate the person who asked the question. Personally, I see the game as one big game with a core-part and and HoT-part. The core-part being a free bonus if you purchase HoT.

To answer the question again “what is the worth of Guild Wars 2”. It’s 50$. That’s how much you have to pay to play Guild Wars 2 with all its features once HoT releases.

But last week was 40 euros. Sometimes even 10. now they say HoT is 50. And HoT+Gw2 is 50. So gw2 is zero? If not zero, how much?

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

If you separate the game into core and expansion: core value is zero. expansion is 50$
If you see it as one big game that is being updated by HoT: 50$

So the game is free? I will be able to open free accounts when HoT drops? I don’t think so.

No, it’s not free. It’s 50$ in both scenarios I listed.

Thus you are acknoledging that Anet is selling 2 different products at the same price.
You did say “both scenarios”.
And you also said that the value is different, since you said that the Core Game is not free.

Jongi.7612:

stof.9341:

Jongi.7612:

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

Just, please XD There is no such thing as a free lunch. Opportunity costs etc… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Do you really have no notion of economy at all? :’(

What about the good old saying, “time is money” ?

If i want to pick up some dirt and give it to someone, no one paid for it. Its a gift, from the ground. Lets say I paid someone to create a game, its going to be free to play with a shop like league of legends. I pay the guy out of my own pocket and give everyone I can the game for free. That is called marketing and getting your name out because the store can make up the difference. When you increase your customer base you increase your income, or you fall. This is just marketing, they are saying “Come play our game, if your new dont worry, just purchase the expansion and enjoy the world with your fellow players” is a good choice.

Yes I paid for the making of the game, blah blah blah, but its no different than them wanting more people to play.

So GW2 is dirt on the ground?

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Actually when you buy a battle chest you get separate serial codes for each game. I can take my free core game and throw it to a friend or make a second account. In this case I buy this bundle and if I already have the core game then that part of the bundle just disappears.

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

That’s new, since evem Anet used the word bundle and then said “you can’t unbundle”.
Also, the game is free? It was on the shop for 40 euros last week. It drops faster than your credibility when you make such statements.

Oh who said “bundle”? I think they made an error by saying that. This is the problem with everyone using popular words, its inaccurate. My description of the situation is correct.

But you aren’t talking about what Anet actually stated, so your description is correct but the reality descripted is non-existant.

I’m describing reality, the person you say used the word “bundle” was incorrect (because its clearly not a bundle as the core game is not included, there is a gift of the core game for those who don’t attach their bought copy of HoT to a core game though).

So you are admitting that anet is making 2 different bundles with 2 different values based on who is purchasing them?
Since one of them has a gift included and the other one doesn’t?
And the gift does hold value otherwise anet would give it away for free to everyone?

I’m saying exactly this :

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

and what is the value of that gift?

Its the thought that counts (or generates rage depending on who you ask xD).

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

So just to check you’re about to try and use the “they got something so I want something too” attack?

Its a gift for new players, show some grace and be pleased for them and the fresh life added to the game.

Apparently you can’t answer this without acknowleding that they are giving something away that has value. and thus the HoT package has a different value based on who purchases.

Straylight.7529:

Arkblue.6129:

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

If you separate the game into core and expansion: core value is zero. expansion is 50$
If you see it as one big game that is being updated by HoT: 50$

So the game is free? I will be able to open free accounts when HoT drops? I don’t think so.

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jongi.7612:

Maugetarr.6823:

Look, I’m fine with the price if I could automatically play all the content on my current account if I buy the expansion. The thing is is that I either have to buy a character slot or delete one of my characters if I want to try out the revenant, which is part of HoT content. Alternatively, if I decide to not attach HoT to my account, I could get 5 more character slots to play the revenant and bank tabs, easily worth over $50 through the gem store. The “free” game still has value to veterans which is a major sticking point. If I got a free character slot in the expansion, I probably would have ordered it already.

In fact, marketing missed out on a way to sell themed bundles. If they had gone and done basic (1 char slot), adventurer (char slot + bank tab + other stuff advertised), and explorer (char slot + bank tab + crafting material expansion + other stuff advertised), selling it as a way nice convenience bundle and marketing it as you stocking out to explore all the new facets of the game, I probably would have picked up the top bundle instantly. $50 + revenant fees makes me hesitant.

You dont have to dish out money for that character slot though. You can buy it with gold so its free. The only thing you would have invested in it is time, not money.

My time is worth a monetary amount actually. If I’m forced into repetitive tasks I don’t necessarily want to do in order to use part of the game already I paid for, the time used to collect gold for that specific purpose could be given a real world monetary amount.

Just because the revenant is going to be released doesnt mean you have to play it. Its your choice to play it, and if time is money then you better pay up for that character spot. You didnt get all the space to play every class in the first place, why should this be any different? You paid for those classes right? So why not say we should actually have 9 character slots instead of 5, or in your case 6?

Just because guild wars 2 was released it doesn’t mean you have to buy it. Plenty of other games, some of them even totally f2p like Wildstar.
guess what, your marketing and sale policy is what makes you sink or float.
And this kind of marketing generates more loss than revenue since it spawns dissatisfaction: you are forced to put efforts to access something you purchased sacrificing resources (time OR money, both important) regardless of the fact you are paying for them.

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Actually when you buy a battle chest you get separate serial codes for each game. I can take my free core game and throw it to a friend or make a second account. In this case I buy this bundle and if I already have the core game then that part of the bundle just disappears.

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

That’s new, since evem Anet used the word bundle and then said “you can’t unbundle”.
Also, the game is free? It was on the shop for 40 euros last week. It drops faster than your credibility when you make such statements.

Oh who said “bundle”? I think they made an error by saying that. This is the problem with everyone using popular words, its inaccurate. My description of the situation is correct.

But you aren’t talking about what Anet actually stated, so your description is correct but the reality descripted is non-existant.

I’m describing reality, the person you say used the word “bundle” was incorrect (because its clearly not a bundle as the core game is not included, there is a gift of the core game for those who don’t attach their bought copy of HoT to a core game though).

So you are admitting that anet is making 2 different bundles with 2 different values based on who is purchasing them?
Since one of them has a gift included and the other one doesn’t?
And the gift does hold value otherwise anet would give it away for free to everyone?

I’m saying exactly this :

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

and what is the value of that gift?

Its the thought that counts (or generates rage depending on who you ask xD).

You won’t weasel your way out of this. What is the worth of Guild Wars 2?

Jongi.7612:

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

This whole thread isnt proof enough? What about all the other forums? What proof are you looking for exactly? The only thing that is really apparent is that you guys are salty because you see someone is getting core game files when they purchase HoT.

actually, we aren’t salty. It’s just that you are too delusional to acknowledge that the value of those core game files and the right to play them is worth more than zero.

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Arkblue.6129:

Coulter.2315:

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

ReaverKane.7598:

I liked massively’s article, but i think he missed a point. People aren’t kittened about the “sale” of the original game. No one complained about the 10€ sales (that i’m aware).
The issue is 2 people buy the same thing, one gets 90€ value out of it, another gets 45€.
This added to the already overpriced expansion is adding insult to injury, and THAT’S why people are outraged.
Its not the fact that they’re giving the core game away, its that they’re giving it ONLY to new costumers, old ones may not apply.

When WoW puts the expansions in the battle chest, no one bats an eyelid.
The expansions that was priced at 45 Euros get dropped in a bundle that costs 10-15 euros. No problem at all.
There is devaluation connected to aging of the product and it being replaced with a new expansion.
What players have issues is when you totally remove the value of things previously purchased. 40 is 4 times greater than 10. 1 is infinitely greater than zero. Reducing one back to zero is something you can’t afford. Unless your name is Big Boss and it’s the ending of Metal Gear Solid 4.

Actually when you buy a battle chest you get separate serial codes for each game. I can take my free core game and throw it to a friend or make a second account. In this case I buy this bundle and if I already have the core game then that part of the bundle just disappears.

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

That’s new, since evem Anet used the word bundle and then said “you can’t unbundle”.
Also, the game is free? It was on the shop for 40 euros last week. It drops faster than your credibility when you make such statements.

Oh who said “bundle”? I think they made an error by saying that. This is the problem with everyone using popular words, its inaccurate. My description of the situation is correct.

But you aren’t talking about what Anet actually stated, so your description is correct but the reality descripted is non-existant.

I’m describing reality, the person you say used the word “bundle” was incorrect (because its clearly not a bundle as the core game is not included, there is a gift of the core game for those who don’t attach their bought copy of HoT to a core game though).

So you are admitting that anet is making 2 different bundles with 2 different values based on who is purchasing them?
Since one of them has a gift included and the other one doesn’t?
And the gift does hold value otherwise anet would give it away for free to everyone?

I’m saying exactly this :

They are not selling a bundle. They are selling HoT. If you buy HoT as a new player you are gifted with GW2 Core. Its a gift to new players, not a bundle.

and what is the value of that gift?

Jongi.7612:

joneb.5679:

LoL what I wrote is fact. It’s not opinion. I did not say the original game is available otherwise than with the HoT. I said its bundled with it free of charge as Anet have stated the price of Hot includes the original for free. That is fact. Also its fact that no matter the price, the bundle is more favourable to new customers and it is a bundle no matter what. There is no question that the base game is required. That changes nothing of the cost and value to new and current players.

It’s becoming apparent you are not capable of making sense of this. The analogy you use of restaurants giving free sample is evidence of that. Free samples are never full meals in my experiwnce. they are a very tiny portion as an example of the food on offer. Maybe you are thinking of a voucher for the first visit.

Im not getting involved in your endless illogical debate. I already made it clear we are owed nothing from Anet and that they are free to not do anything for current customers. I also said its business but I’m the kind of person who believes in human decency and decency over business would mean Anet would give better value on the new HoT expansion only for current customers.

Okay enjoy what ever you are intending to do with this thread.

So why not raise cain with Blizzard, or Steam. Things lose value over time and also when something new comes out.

because one is greater than zero, and Blizzard and steam don’t just gift things to newcomers creating packages with different values for new and older players.
When I purchase a new expansion, I pay it less because I had the previous one: not the full price, but I do retain something based on the fact that part of the product I’m purchasing is already mine.