I wouldn’t like to see d/d 3 getting reworked as the Deathblossom can add a nice juke/evade at cost of initiative but i found that regardless of the low damage, by managing to apply bleeds even as a power/crit build, it puts extra pressure on my target.
I don’t know why but i get the feeling that people using the argument of “initiative waste” for a skill really don’t realize that because by having 15 points into critical strikes you have “Opportunist” which really, for a fast hitting crit build, will regain you initiative back quick as long as you can stay on your target. If your still having trouble managing initative by using skills such as deathblossom, heartseaker i would suggest running it in par with Infiltrator’s Signet to add that extra ini regen.
What i would consider a wasted initiative is when you use a skill that is dodged or doesnt connect. Much like i find spamming #2 to be a waste of initiative and a death sentence to any thief that tries to HS me to death as all i have to do is evade, Deathblossom, evade, see when he stops and counter strike him with.
In conjunction to deathblossom, using p/p as your secondary weapon set with sigil of earth on 1 pistol, can really stack up bleeds on your target only for that extra pressure with no effort. Using conditions on a Power/crit build isnt really wasted since the damage is still fairly decent (but remember, its not your main damage source).
When i think dps, i think constant damage pressure. Regardless of damage source, as long as i can apply some damage on my opponent which could preasure him into making mistakes i have the advantage, since they rely on cooldowns, and i only need to manage critting for the initiative regen :P
I actually do use infiltrator signet in my regular build, I also use the Signet Use trait for extra ini on demand. True there are certain situations where Death Blossom is in fact useful, like when you are immobilized and need to dodge something like Mesmer flurry or as you were saying HS spam. Thing is in those situations, afterwards, even with the extra ini regen and popping signets, I usually find myself pretty low on ini. Cloak and Dagger is a staple and using 4 ini can really be a detriment. Still though, it’s all about situational awareness with thief and using it at the wrong time should be punished. I do agree that it does provide decent pressure and utility while also providing a whirl finisher which is neat although I guess I’m just not that good at using the whirl very well just yet. I guess I just feel it is a good move, but doesn’t feel like it synergizes well with the set, and would like to see some improvement to the move itself. I don’t necessarily think the move is bad, just that it doesn’t feel like it fits, but I guess that personal. But that’s why I posted this. Wanna hear what other people think. I do appreciate your input. Looking forward to further feedback. =D
alot of tooltips are incorrect. have you looked at Shadow’s Embrace trait lately? =P Try testing things before you jump to conclusions.
Once again I’m not looking to blatantly insult people and their opinions, I just want to know what you think. If you disagree that’s fine, of course, it would simply be more beneficial if you give constructive reasoning behind why you disagree rather than just insulting or assuming stupidity/ignorance. This is coming from someone who loves the d/d set and just wants to see it get some love, seeing as most consider it trash in comparison to other sets for a slew of reasons.
#1 Thief D/D combo skill #2 Charges instead of Chance on Crit #3 Dueling
#4 Normalize Reveal #5 Stomp Rework
(edited by Arkitech.9158)
I agree that we need a clear separation between Condition and Power weapon sets.
GW2 is already limited enough with its skill-selection we don’t need further reduction from poor synergy.
But it’s difficult to draw a clear line when there are so many weapon combinations.
Although I agree, I’d rather see constructive feedback/suggestions rather than just talking things down.
a separation between single target/aoe would also be nice.
1: single target direct damage / small poison part
2: single target direct damage / gap closer
3: 3 targets condition / evade
4: 4 targets direct damage / cripple
5: single target direct damage / stealthto me 3 and 4 should be reworked to better fit in a single target burst weapon set.
maybe
3: single target direct damage / 1/4s evade + 3s protection
4: single target direct damage / immobilize – no more bounce.
I like the idea of single target imob on dancing dagger but the 4 hit 100% projectile finisher is really nice. Using it in a dark field with 2+ targets yields a lot of heals and damage.
D/D is a hybrid damage set which workes great. The fact that 3 and 4 are finisher moves allows you to apply other conditions than bleeds (if you know what a combo field is).
Above posts are a good example for not understanding the actual strengsths of the D/D set and all the suggestions just a call for simplifications and would lead to D/D becoming a one trick pony.
Personally I am against all those suggestions.
True it is a hybrid set and using combo finisher effectively is very important and I can see using both 3 and 4 with teammates combo fields being effective. Using d/d with rampagers would probably work in this situation while sacrificing a lot of survivability. Although making an effective d/d hybrid combo build seems like it would be really ineffective in most situations honestly, I see what you are going for. I really would like to see one. I still feel that the d/d set lacks synergy with itself. Once again I’m not looking to point fingers or talk people down, just looking for suggestions. If you have a solid build that uses all of d/d effectively I would love to see it. I also feel that d/d in it’s current state can only be a “one trick pony” because of its lack of synergy with itself. you can either use only 1,2,5 with direct damage or 3,4 with conditions which is rather limiting. Adding synergy with itself would allow for more situation awareness and the proper use of said weapon skills would make the set more flexible. The opposite of a “one trick pony”. Instead of having just one or 2 moves to use at the right time, you could have 5, is kind of the point I’m trying to make.
#1 Thief D/D combo skill #2 Charges instead of Chance on Crit #3 Dueling
#4 Normalize Reveal #5 Stomp Rework
(edited by Arkitech.9158)
Alternatively having death blossom just be single target and not bleed would work. Lowering the initiative cost to make it usable in a rotation. Or even making it just a dodge that jumps over your opponent in the same manner but doing no damage with a second part that’s like stabbing with both dagger, similar to the Double Stab ability suggested above. Dodge costing little initiative (1-3) but stab costing quite a bit(3-5).
I understand that most of these options remove the whirl finisher from thief weapon skill sets. I’m not sure that that is very detrimental, though, seeing as the skill isn’t very usable anyways and whirl finisher in d/d doesn’t give the kit very much.
#1 Thief D/D combo skill #2 Charges instead of Chance on Crit #3 Dueling
#4 Normalize Reveal #5 Stomp Rework
(edited by Arkitech.9158)
Hey I have been thinking about d/d combo move a bit and wanted to make a forum post about it. Pretty sure it won’t get much attention but still wanna get it out there, see what people think about it.
Pretty much I feel like the entire d/d set for Thief screams single target direct damage burst but when you use the set you pretty much only use 1,2, and 5. 4 is pretty good in the right situations. But the 3 is hardly useful for any direct damage build, and a d/d condition build ONLY uses 3 and nothing more, further more its a trash build (no offence if you use that build it’s just kinda silly, everyone who has played thief has tried it so don’t feel bad). This feels kinda wrong. The dodge weapon skill is nice but the initiative cost makes it hardly usable.
So anyways I was thinking that a rework (since they have been into that lately, and we have brought up reworks in the past) seems warranted. I had a few ideas for what might work as a d/d combo move but I wanna see what you think.
Tow Stab – Pull yourself to your target stabbing them when you arrive. Short range like 400-600 or something. Kind of like the spear 4 maybe even with how it cc’s yourself for a second or so. Adding cripple would probably be redundant with dagger 4. cost 3-5.
Tactical Retreat or Shadow Retreat/Sinister Strike – Maybe a 2 part move where you dodge backwards, second move being a stab that transfers condition. Sorta something like s/d 3 but with its own flare. Also keeping a weapon dodge on d/d would be nice. A condi transfer weapon skill would be neat on thief and would add nice utility to d/d while keeping the ability to have a condition type build with d/d sort of. Cost 2-3 for first part, 2-3 for second.
Double Stab – Stab your opponent with both daggers. Does similar damage that backstab does from the front (facestab) while not in stealth while being able to do same damage as backstab from stealth from any direction. So you could face stab someone with Double Stab from stealth and do the same damage as backstab, but at the cost of initiative. d/d is well known for it having superior damage to d/p but having less utility. This would reinforce that. cost 4-6
Had some other ideas but they seemed to have slipped my mind. Those are the ones I liked the best though. Just want your thoughts, although I’m sure the chances of something like this happening is slim, I really think the d/d combo ability could use some love. look forward to hearing your opinions.
#1 Thief D/D combo skill #2 Charges instead of Chance on Crit #3 Dueling
#4 Normalize Reveal #5 Stomp Rework
(edited by Arkitech.9158)
Retreat Shot(replaces body shot): Fire a powerful explosive at the ground burning surrounding foes and leaping backwards. 4-5 initiative. 3 sec burn. Blast or Leap combo finisher. short leap backwards possibly also an evade (but prolly not)
additionally add vulnerability to unload. p/p un-viable problem solved.
#1 Thief D/D combo skill #2 Charges instead of Chance on Crit #3 Dueling
#4 Normalize Reveal #5 Stomp Rework
(edited by Arkitech.9158)
It would also strengthen the current p/d condition meta by giving them a 4th condition. giving thief burning would be amazing. This along with nerfing conditions across the board would be perfect for all classes in my opinion as the current strength of conditions is ridiculous.
I like the idea, although I’m sure it’s not gunna happen. Another suggestion I want to add is adding vulnerability to unload along with the short range blast replacement for bodyshot.
I tested 2 sigils of paralyzation that do +15% stun duration each. It had no effect on basilisk venom or tripwire’s knockdown. I would expect your sigil to have no effect with BV. So the only thing it would work on as far as I can tell is sword’s daze and the offhand pistol’s daze (though that wont last enough for you to hit seeing as it’s only 1/4 second long).
If I remember right Basilisk Venom was in its own class, not a stun. Then they gave you a way to breakout of it but it’s still not a “stun” class its a “Basilisk Venom” class.
This is kind of what I thought would be the case. I was being hopeful but it seems to be true. How unfortunate. It woulda been a cool option. =P
Well seeing as Sigil of Impact is neither a stun breaker nor does it have to do with stacking I am still not sure. I’ve done some testing and the benefit is minimal anyways so I would most likely use Sigil of Force regardless but I would still like to know. If it does work the damage boost isn’t much. Although that small boost can make or break things, who knows.
no one have any insight on this?
Sigil of Impact does not exist in sPvP. nevermind the “testing it” bit.
So Sigil of Impact increases damage to stunned foes by 10%. Normally I have Sigil of Bloodlust on but when I get the full 25 stacks I want to switch for optimal performance. I was thinking Force would be the best option, just add on a bit more damage since I already have an on crit sigil in my main hand (Blood). But as I was looking for sigil’s to put into my offhand dagger when I have 25 stacks, I stumble uppon Sigil of Impact and remember reading somewhere that “Basilisk Venom can be broken by stun breakers”. Now, I know that its not a “stun” exactly but its own debuff “stone”, however, does it benefit from the bonuses of Sigil of Impact? If not it makes sense but I could totally see it being more viable than Sigil of Force for someone who uses Basilisk Venom like myself. I will actually try to test this with steady weapons.