Guild Wars 2

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4ZwV0-N5V-Fd0;9;4OT;0E28-17B;43;0Lwl35;1udbTudbTt-FvF6o0S;1VhVlWqXv214752kVJV2q;5F2Cok2Cw;9;9;9;9;7VR-6Q

max damage 1 shot wonder backstab thief build.
grand total of 63% bonus damage if all circumstances are met.
5% dagger damage from dagger training.
10% if they have a condition (steal poisons and weakens)
3% from cloak and dagger causes vuln
10% if you have more than 6 ini which is guaranteed with 15 in trickery.
5% if you are behind them.
5% from force sigil.
15% from assassins signet.
10% from scholar.
3816 attack, 118% crit damage.
20 stacks of might.
4516 attack with might
Doing all the math, on a target with 3000 armor the max damage you can do with a single backstab (and only backstab) is ~12,317. this is not accounting for cloak and dagger, mug, air sigil, poison, and the preceding heart seekers.
with your armor (2830) the max damage on the backstab would be ~13,057
Basi for stun.
this combo can be pulled off from 2400 range with sword 2, infil signet, and steal so you can do it from beyond where people would see it coming in the blink of an eye. the downside being that it is a one shot wonder build. your burst has a 45 sec cd but will 1 shot anyone if you land it.
I run this build for fun sometimes. The funny thing, with ascended armor and precision food you can get another 20% damage bonus with executioner and 100% crit chance without hidden killer. I haven’t messed around with it yet as the math is a bit daunting, but you may be able to achieve a higher max damage back stab.
Mind you this is all with exotic armor and weapons. The caps get higher with ascended armor and weapons…

Any questions?

Also, the regen on stealth is less useful since you have so many sources of regen and it doesn’t go if you already have regen, which will be most the time. Making it a waste of a trait. I suggest condi removal on stealth instead, since this build is rather lacking in condi removal. Double d/d might be nice for the Geomancy but alternatively you could run p/d or SB. Lastly, no burst condi removal. Forge is strong but a Rune with condi removal would be better seeing as you are going for a bunker approach here. Something like Lyssa or Water. Both synergize well with Withdraw and even Signet of Malice.

Run Lyssa runes, full condi cleanse + stab so you can go ham without worrying about getting interrupted. 30 in shadow arts for condi removal and heals in stealth. Hide in Shadows removes all damaging condi’s besides torment (don’t let it get interrupted though, use it in stealth). Sword 2 is a good emergency condi clear, so is Shadow Return on Shadow Step. Carry a weapon with Generosity Sigil on it for fighting condi classes. Also, fancy bug, if you interrupt someone with Basilisk Venom (and only Basilisk Venom) that has Perplexity Runes on, it puts 5 stacks of confuse on them and uses their condi damage to determine the damage. This is a bug that will be fixed most likely but in the mean time its hilarious. =] It pairs really well with Generosity, I love putting 5 stacks of confuse and torment on a Mesmer with one Steal Cloak and Dagger Backstab combo. xD Signet of Agility is an option as well.

In order from most to least valuable:
Lyssa Runes
30 in Shadow Arts
Hide in Shadows
Generosity Sigil
Shadow Step
Sword Main Hand
Signet of Agility

In short, with how strong condi’s are atm it is always good to have some reliable condi cleanse in your build. I run all of the above (besides Shadow Step or Signet of Agility), using Basilisk with Lyssa right after I get Signet of Spited has saved my kitten on many occasions. Being able to cleanse consistent conditions in stealth while having a few burst cleanses is usually all you need. Pair it with 30 in Trickery for control or 30 in Critical strikes for damage and you are golden.

My only hope here is the fact that they reverted 4 sec reveal back to 3 sec in wvw back in the day. Honestly the fact that its still 4 sec in spvp blows my mind and is single handedly the reason I don’t play spvp as much as I would like to. It probably also is one of the major reasons the “Jumper Build” got so popular. “oh, well stealth is really kitten in this game mode, what other defenses do thieves have? oh right, mobility, blinds, dodging, lets do that” -Most thieves. “Aw hell naw” -ANET.

Kande.1930:

Travelers. Frees up a utility slot for me so i don’t have to run that blasted signet of shadows.

signet of shadows active will save your kitten in a pinch though

Or, ya know, keep it instant but unusable while stunned. Maybe even not usable while stomping and takes priority canceling queued skills like jumper said. Think I’m gunna start complaining about mesmer using staff retreat + blink to stomp, see if that gets a cast time. Not that it needs one, just curious if that’s what it actually takes. How bout instead of listening to massive complaining from people who don’t play a class, you ask people who are level headed and play the class with respect what they think. Also, thank you Kensuda for making this terrible suggestion. Guardian main totally has the right to say what needs to change on a thief.

Lyssa. Always Lyssa. Traveler or perplexity if Condi thief. But Lyssa is always a solid choice.

It’s hardly cheating. You shouldn’t chase a warrior alone regardless.

Tonics aren’t town cloths….. I was watching that and honestly laughed my kitten off that you over extended like that and got completely out played. Cry more. xD Glass thief got stun locked and dropped cause he got thirsty, big surprise.
BTW watched you burn all your stun breakers out running your buddies to catch up to Sanny. Prolly why you died bud.

negerleif.2106:

Scrambles.2604:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

here ya go—

basically “you can already duel in a round-about way via sPvP, but we would like to add open world dueling at some point”

edit its at 14:11 i don’t think the timestamp worked

hehe the funny thing about this is that im MrNubfish :P

Haha that’s neat, I actually haven’t seen that interview thanks.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Arkitech.9158:

I understand where you are coming from, although many places would make very neat dueling areas. In fact there would more than likely end up being designated area that people go to duel. Like in the middle of Divinitys Reach or at the Lions Arch fountain. I get it, but I would really enjoy being able to duel my friends outside of sPvP with my gear I worked for. I happen to know many people whom I consider very good players and they mostly play in WvW and would like to duel without the constraints of sPvP such as 4 sec reveal, traits being different, etc. The rules are different with PvE armor and runes and being able to practice that against my friends as apposed to randoms I don’t know would be amazing. Especially when randoms are rarely as good as the people I know and play with on my home server. We have actually had people change servers for a week so we could all duel each other before.

And that is where a designated area that only allowed dueling would come in. Say where the Pavilion is in Divinity’s Reach. When I discuss a designated or instanced area for dueling I mean being able to use PvE gear and rules. There you and your friends could have fun practicing and testing builds. I think having it in an environment such as that would appease those that want to PvE duel and those that don’t want to see it spilled out into populated areas. They could even incorporate it into the LFG tool if people wanted pick up matches when their friends were not around or to duel a specific profession. “LFD L80 Memser” Maybe that would be me.

Now that sounds like a solid suggestion. Seems effective while dealing with the major problems. I would still appreciate open world dueling much more but understand why something like this would be implemented instead. I still really dislike that the fact that people are generally disrespectful seems to be the main reason people don’t want this.

I understand where you are coming from, although many places would make very neat dueling areas. In fact there would more than likely end up being designated area that people go to duel. Like in the middle of Divinitys Reach or at the Lions Arch fountain. I get it, but I would really enjoy being able to duel my friends outside of sPvP with my gear I worked for. I happen to know many people whom I consider very good players and they mostly play in WvW and would like to duel without the constraints of sPvP such as 4 sec reveal, traits being different, etc. The rules are different with PvE armor and runes and being able to practice that against my friends as apposed to randoms I don’t know would be amazing. Especially when randoms are rarely as good as the people I know and play with on my home server. We have actually had people change servers for a week so we could all duel each other before.

Hence forth I would like to ask that no one post the argument “This will just make people spam ‘duel me brah’” or other similar arguments as this has already been addressed. A solution would be simple and in fact is already in the game. The problem is also addressed in the OP. In fact, there are so many easy ways to solve such a silly problem, I really don’t understand how anyone could possibly consider it a problem in the first place. Otherwise constructive arguments on whether you would or would not like to see something like this in game would still be greatly appreciated.

uknortherner.2670:

Arkitech.9158:

negerleif.2106:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

You can find all of the arguments for and against your idea on page 3 suggestions

the only argument people use against this is " its will only be “duel me brah, you scared”

thats not a very solid argument IMO

while there are ALOT of good arguments on why to implement a duel feature.

it’s also relatively easy to block someone…

The block function in this game is about as useful and as effective as a locked door in the middle of an open field. Blocking people will not stop them spamming emotes, bunny-hopping like an attention-starved child around you because you refuse to acknowledge their duel requests and nor will it stop them starting new threads every other day on this tedious topic that the majority of GW2 players could not give a dolyak’s behind about.

It really isn’t very hard to ignore people man, I had no idea this topic was so vehemently unwanted. From my understanding everyone I know would appreciate such an option. It really isn’t hard to waypoint, move, ignore, whatever. If someone is really irritating you, that’s just part of who they are. It will happen regardless of this feature existing or not. I don’t see where your argument is coming from. Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean you are “the majority of GW2 players”. As I said I know many people who would enjoy something like this. In fact, until posting this thread, I had never met a single person who doesn’t want something like this. Nor have I heard a single argument against such a feature. So, in my experience, the majority of GW2 players would very much like having something like this in game.

negerleif.2106:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

You can find all of the arguments for and against your idea on page 3 suggestions

the only argument people use against this is " its will only be “duel me brah, you scared”

thats not a very solid argument IMO

while there are ALOT of good arguments on why to implement a duel feature.

it’s also relatively easy to block someone…

bloodletting wolf.2837:

You can find all of the arguments for and against your idea on page 3 suggestions

The OP isn’t very descriptive or constructive.

It’s called a “Bank”.

So I have been wanting this kind of system to be implemented for a while. It’s a pretty basic concept, I would pretty much like to be able to challenge anyone, anytime, to a one on one duel. Now I understand that the game isn’t balance around 1v1 but rather team coordination, regardless people will always 1v1 in WvW or sPvP. I also understand their are work arounds. You can go into sPvP and join a dueling room or fight people from opposing servers in WvW. I do feel that there are too many work arounds in this game, but that’s a topic for another day. Dueling is a great way to practice your skill and ability to deal with particular builds and classes.

The Rules:
1: By default no one would be able to challenge you to a duel. In order to be challenged to a duel you would first have to turn this option on. This is to prevent people from annoying/griefing with constant duel requests, also turning this option on and off should be very simple. Preferably not require you to go into the options window. Also, ignoring someone would obviously not allow them to challenge you to a duel, as well as blocking anything they say from your chat etc.

2: You should be able to duel anyone, anywhere. This means PvE, WvW, sPvP lobby, be they friend or foe. I can understand this being a bit iffy. Many people have different preferences when it comes to gear and food and buffs and what not, and that should be left up to the players who challenge each other. Also being able to pass the time with duels in the sPvP lobby while waiting on a queue would be neat.

3: The flag. When a duel is started a flag should go down between the two players. If either participant move a certain range from the flag (say, 2000 range or so) they essentially forfeit.

4: Winning and losing. When a character reaches 1 health, they should kneel, be unable to preform actions or move, and immediately be put out of combat becoming invulnerable and lose all conditions until they reach 100% health. The winner should cheer and still be able to move, but still affected by the invulnerability, condition clear, and combat drop until at 100% health. There should also be a cooldown so you cannot duel again for a period of time after a duel concludes. A short period though, something like 5-30 sec tops.

How it might work:
It would most likely work differently for different areas. I’m gunna mainly focus on a place where both friends and foes exist. That is WvW. So, two people have dueling turned on and want to fight, one challenges, the other accepts. There is a countdown and both become enemies, to everyone. Now this seems weird but the main thing is that its doable. Now this does a few things.
A) It makes the fight easier to observe. The flag makes the fact that they are dueling obvious, but both people being enemies for all makes viewing health and targeting to see things like conditions and boons easier. Also makes you unable to see stealthed characters from a third person perspective.
B) If someone decides to interrupt the duel, both participants can kill that person. Also because of the invuln period that happens when you “die”, the person interrupting would still have to essentially kill you twice. Further discouraging people from interrupting.
Alternatively you can use the two unused color’s in WvW, make them allies to the three used colors in WvW and enemies to each other so the duel cannot be interrupted. This also makes things like 2v2, 3v3 etc. possible.

You should be able to challenge people on apposing teams along with allies.

Rewards:
Since you aren’t killing anyone thus not getting drops there should be some sort of reward system. I talked about how you would have to have dueling turned on in order to be challenged to a duel. Well whether it’s on of off should be obvious by just targeting someone. I think it would be really cool if you could have a portrait border like mobs do if dueling is turned on. An achievement related to this border as well. For instance, when you first turn dueling on you would have a bronze portrait border. If you win five duels you gain the first tier of the achievement and gain a silver portrait border. 25 duels gives you a gold border and another tier. At 100 duel wins you would get a portrait border something like champion mobs get, golden with cross swords. Last would be a legendary portrait border for 500 wins. Maybe make the full achievement worth 50-100 points total. All these number can be tweaked of course, just think it would be a really neat addition.

That’s about all I can remember about the idea so far. Will add any other intricacies I think up. Any other input, ideas, or discussion, support would be greatly appreciated as i would like to hear others opinions on the matter, whether you disagree with such a thing being added or would love to see it in game.

Ricochet is awesome. i have had 1 shot bounce 5 times before. Also, any pistol shot bounces. So immobilize, shadow shot from D/P, headshot, every pistol shot. I have bounced between 4-5 people blinding them and hitting them with shadow shot for the lawls a few times. Ricochet is a wonderfully fun trait, and 50% is HUGE. You know it used to be 15%? That was trash.

Free For All Deathmatch would be pretty neat. It could really be done on any map. Can be up to 25 players or something (that might be a bit much unless the map were HUGE). Any amount of players can join at any time and it would still be even. For instance, no “4v5 LAME” moments. just 2-25 people all trying to kill each other. Might not be the best idea but I could see it being pretty fun.

I understand almost all the thief changes that are coming, I even understand this one. A little…. But seriously swording in, starting stomp, returning, infi signet or steal to finish is one of THE MOST rewarding things I have mastered on my thief. I have practiced this maneuver relentlessly and its hands down one of my favorite things to do on thief. I’m so disappointing that this change is killing something I have worked so kitten getting good at. Setting up the perfect situation to get this stomp is not easy, having the cooldown ready at the end of a kill does not happen often. It is NOT broken or stupidly powerful, its just effective. I really hope this one change doesn’t go through. I love this stomp and am gunna miss it a lot.

Also, yay now we have another cast time weapon skill to randomly get interrupted and perplexed. Wonderful. Now I have to never use sword return while healing to avoid an incoming stun/interrupt. Now I have to break a habit that has taken a lot of practice to get good at.

Just like how I took a 2 month break for 4 sec reveal ruining the flow of my favorite weapon set, this will ruin the flow of so many things a thief does. And for the love of D/D please bring 3 sec reveal back to sPvP. its one of the main things that hinders the weapon set from being a viable choice as apposed to D/P. D/P has a 4 sec flow, D/D has a 3 sec flow. 4 sec reveal=no flow=supremely difficult to use is sPvP. Especially when you play sPvP and WvW and PvE like me and have to get used to the flow in WvW and then go to sPvP and get IMMUNE CnD’s over and over. Hate it so much. Nothing in this game makes me more angry than 4 sec reveal. The main reason I do not play sPvP as much as I would like to is 4 sec reveal.

Okay I have been thinking about this a lot and am really concerned. Overall I REALLY like the Thief changes that are coming. They are great ideas and bring some builds that have been very annoying in line with others that have seen little play in a way that I feel will work very well. I understand what you were thinking with all of these changes and have to agree, for the most part.

My concern lies in the cast time on Infiltrator Return. Now, I get that S/D thieves are really strong right now and practically impossible to lock down, I get that the vigor nerf is a must. In fact, most feel the reason the build is so strong is the vigor up time coupled with the endurance return from Feline Grace and the “get out of jail free” sword return. The thing is, I have been running S/D as an off weapon for a long time now. I use it to do really amazing things that I am very proud of. One of my favorite is Infiltrator strike, start stomp, return, Infiltrators Signet/Steal right at the end. Its a Shadow Step stomp on an excellently short CD and is really satisfying to pull off. Another is starting my heal then returning to avoid any interrupts that might be coming my way. I use s/d purely for its utility. The occasional boon steal with an unblockable attack, the shadow return for some subterfuge or perfect stomps. The clutch daze for that perfect res/stomp denial.

As I said, overall I really enjoy the Thief changes that are coming and in fact look forward to it. Personally I am very disappointed that sword return is taking such a large hit once again. I feel like it has been nerfed a lot in the past and taking it another step further is a bit much. Please reconsider this one change, maybe even do something else to the ability to bring it in line. I would just really like to not see this changed to not being instant cast anymore as it contributes to a lot of very fun and satisfying moments.

I have to say though, I’m really liking how you are not only evening it out so that all the weapon sets are on more of an even footing, but making trait choices an actual choice depending on your build/playstyle. I also like that this doesn’t “pigeon hole” us into certain builds. We will have more diversity overall which is nice.

I have minor gripes about other changes but most of those are honestly understandable. The trickery changes are a bit annoying for the glass cannon novelty build, taking away some of that crazy power stacking potential. It makes sense though, some people just find that stuff crazy hard to deal with. It’s understandable to make Thieves choose and not be able to stack that much stacks on stacks on stacks. Also the buff to Assassins Reward is cool, I like to use it with the “Jumper” build in sPvP even though its not the best trait. Not sure if the buff will be enough to make it worthy of grandmaster tier, though. Its essentially Zealous Blade on Guardian except without the damage boost and we all know that wasn’t worth the grandmaster tier, even after the buff. Even now, in the master tier, it’s hardy used. Just a thought.

I main thief and overall like the thief changes. A bit worried about the Signet Use nerf as it’s the main source of ini regen in my build, but the buff to passive ini regen should make up for it. We will see, though. This will also make choosing between Infusion Of Shadows and Patience an actual choice rather than having infusion be a must have while still making d/p a viable set and eliminating passive perma stealth builds. Feel like these are good changes overall. All the other class changes seem legitimately good steps as well.

No one else feels that less RNG would be good for the game? Perhaps you have a different suggestion that would help eliminate RNG? This was one of the best things I could think up that involves active awareness and includes being subject to counter play. Your suggestions/support would be much appreciated.

The Lost Witch.7601:

A few things that came to mind when I read through this thread:

• Death Blossom is capable of stacking over 20 bleeds on it’s own. That is enough incentive for people to play D/D as a condition weapon. It may not be the strongest way to play this weapon, it is certainly possible. (Personally I like to stack 20 bleeds on monsters in PvE and then run away to heal up while my bleeds do all the work from there)

• Plenty of players like this skill and love their condi-thief. If the skill gets changed to do something else entirely… many of these thieves will not only lose their pet build, but also have outrageously expensive condition gear that is now much less useful or even useless. (Ascended trinkets/daggers even)

• Does the D/D set need anything else in particular? Is the weaponset currently not viable?

Basically: what is the cost of changing this skill to have better synergy with the power approach?

The point is it feels wrong to make a build all around a single move. I understand people have builds that work this way, but hardly any Thief that takes themselves seriously actually runs it. Maybe for fun, maybe for lol’s, but realistically it just makes for a miss matched weapon set. Ask any Thief and D/P is more viable in every manner. D/D does more damage and takes less ini but has much less utility and is much harder to use. I feel like the best part about D/D is the high risk high reward. Death Blossom offers no reward at the cost of a lot of ini. I don’t mind keeping Death Blossom’s current mechanic, it just needs some work either way. Just trying to get some attention on it.

my main issue is that the effect goes away if you shadowstep or stealth. i would like for this effect to not just disappear randomly cause I love it. =/

the tooltip says every 10 sec instead of 3. tested it and its still 3. would be nice to have this fixed as I receive questions about it a lot.

A friend of mine suggested an ability something like Katarina’s shunpo from LoL. Like a shadow step behind your opponent at the cost of ini. Seems a bit much but just another idea.

just run 3-4 signet burst thief yourself. come back when you still think it’s OP. problem solved.

I see you throwing around the word “moot” a lot. I hope you know that “moot” means debatable. So a moot point is a point that is up for debate.

spoj.9672:

Yes I know that. But there are very few sigils which work with builds with low crit chance. Thats my point. Some charge based sigils which build charges on regular hits would be better imo. Would give non crit builds more viable sigil options.

Oh, I see what you mean. Like add a new Sigil type that builds charges on hit as well. Yeah that would be neat I agree.

spoj.9672:

Most of the sigils currently involve crit procs. If I were to implement a charge type sigil I would do it so it gave options to low crit chance builds. There arent enough sigils for low precision builds imo. Not really an issue in pve seeing as you want dmg which involves crit. But when I was testing out various bunkerish builds in the mists I struggled to find sigils that fit. If I could take a crit chance sigil and have it work without crits I would be happy.

It’s limited that way for a reason. On crit sigil’s are meant to be exclusive to builds with crit chance. It’s a method of separating them for balance reasons I believe.

Nretep.2564:

bumping your own thread is against the ToS

thanks for the heads up.

Oniyui.8279:

I think it would be too easy to exploit by lining it up to intentionally burst. The game’s bursty enough as it is.

That would be a good thing though, and it would still be hard to do, and would be counterable. If you ever played LoL Master Yi has something like this called Double Strike, Annie has something like it also which stuns. Regardless of how it might be abused I haven’t seen anyone who would prefer RNG to this system. It would be a reliable game mechanic that would actually take skill to use properly, not luck.

And P/D has always been the best choice for condi Thief.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Some-thoughts-on-D-D-Dual-Skill-Death-Blossom/
I already made a post related to this that has been going for a while. =]

Seras.5702:

Revert Pistol #2 functionality to pre-Oct 15. Then swap Death Blossom’s functionality with Pistol #2. Adjust initiative costs for balance. Viola! You now have vulnerability stacking on D/D (power builds) and you have an aoe bleed/evade on pistol (condition builds).

I think the addition of immobilize on pistol is really nice and makes 2 actually usable where it used to be completely useless/waste of initiative. It was a good change. Also pistol already has the ability to bleed so it would be a weird addition. It can even AoE bleed with ricochet trait. Although adding more vuln to D/D would make sense I agree, even though it already has vuln on CnD, adding it to a move you can only use ever 3(4 in sPvP) would be neat. But I assume its there for a reason.

infantrydiv.1620:

Arkitech.9158:

infantrydiv.1620:

How about putting a grandmaster trait in Deadly Arts that gave dagger autoattacks a chance to proc either torment or bleeding?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Charges-instead-of-Chance-on-Crit-Hit/

is how I feel about that.

well, perhaps it could add stack of torment to the second skill in the dagger chain, and 1 stack of torment to the third. that would make it so that people wanting to use dagger for condi application would have to try and stick on a target maybe synergizing with dagger #4

Not to sound harsh, but that would be entirely ridiculous. The set is 4/5 abilities that support a power build and 1 that supports condi anyways. The whole point I’m really trying to make here is D/D isn’t a condi set, but Death Blossom is a condi move. It would be nice if they either made Death blossom a viable tool in a power kit or change it to a move that would work in a power kit. If they can do so while also bolstering it for condi builds that would be nice as well. Such as for Pope who swears up and down that its viable. I still feel its lacking as a move in both departments, though. Although he is honestly the first Thief i have ever heard of who seriously considers D/D condi a viable build. I know every Thief has tried it, and dismissed it. Except Pope I guess.

Sesundar.3501:

Arkitech.9158:

infantrydiv.1620:

How about putting a grandmaster trait in Deadly Arts that gave dagger autoattacks a chance to proc either torment or bleeding?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Charges-instead-of-Chance-on-Crit-Hit/

is how I feel about that.

What of “Every X hits”? For example, for one of the trait, gain 1 initiative every 10th Crit. It would’ve have your idea implemented and works for traits too.

@OP, if you compare d/d 3 with other dual skills, it seems really balanced. D/d 3 can hit multiple targets, grants dodges, does roughly the same damages as any other dual skills with the exception of s/p. But I’m not justifying that d/d 3 is good as it is. I do think that all dual skills needs a rework of some sort

It is mentioned in the thread. The charges thing would be better as it would allow you to know when it would happen, same concept just with a way to see where it is. It would also allow for counter play.

also you should post things related to that thread in that thread and not here, thanks. =]

Yeah I agree that the idea of the skill itself is good, just right now its a bit lacking. Back when it costed 3 initiative it worked well in a rotation for both condi and power. Now it seems it got nerfed in 3 different ways and is almost unusable in power builds and moderately useful in condi. But as Pope has stated, it still has its uses in team scenarios when using combo fields and having condi classes in your comp. I still feel its unfortunate if you get caught alone your only option with that build is to run, or at least it seems that way.

infantrydiv.1620:

How about putting a grandmaster trait in Deadly Arts that gave dagger autoattacks a chance to proc either torment or bleeding?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Charges-instead-of-Chance-on-Crit-Hit/

is how I feel about that.

@Pope Urban
That actually sounds like a really interesting build. Seeing as the game is balanced around team play and not 1v1 it makes a lot of sense. Too bad Mad King Runes aren’t in sPvP but still it’s definitely a cool build, I’ll have to try it out. I agree that simply tweaking the move itself to work well for both build types would probably be good for everyone who likes the weapon set. With that said I still feel that something really should be done to “fix” the ability as it is fundamentally flawed at the moment in my opinion.

Nretep.2564:

The idea is quite good; never thought of this myself.
But it’s hard to combine with the cooldown. My mesmers GS causes three autoattacks (hits) per second. Ignoring, that I can still do damage by other means, with a high critchance (>66%), it means 2 critical hits per second.
And I somewhat think that the current system doesn’t allow cooldowns before counters.

But I also think that it’s possible to implement (with a bit effort), like “cannot gain any counters for 2s after it triggered”.
So, +1 from me, less rng.

An easy way to make the cooldown visible is make it so you can get charges while it’s on cooldown and the charge itself will have a cooldown timer on it. Sort of like how your abilities grey out when on cd and the timer goes around to make it visible again. Maybe even like the current Boon timers, with the white outline that goes around, when the outline is gone it’s ready to go. Alternatively it could be as you said and you wouldn’t be able to get charges for several seconds after expending a proc.

Alex.9567:

in favour, however its not new, there all ready is a superior sigil of sanctuary that works off charges. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_sigil_of_sanctuary

As was said, this is not relevant in any way. As you can see the thread is in the case of on crit/hitting/getting hit and not on kill.

The Sixteenth.2561:

I love you. Especially your idea, one of those that makes you wonder “why didn’t I though of it earlier?”.

Aw, thanks. =D
Actually had this in my head for a while just figured I should post it somewhere so other people can express their opinion.

I just want to propose the idea of Charges instead of Chance on crit/hitting/getting hit Runes, Sigils, and Traits.

What I mean by this is instead of having something just be a chance, have it build charges. For instance, say you have something like Sigil of Blood – 30% Chance on Critical: Steal Health (This effect cannot trigger more than once every 2 seconds) and instead make it Sigil of Blood – Gain a charge when you Critical, at 2 charges, your next attacks Steals Health (This effect cannot trigger more than once every 2 seconds). This charge would be visible buff on your character unique to the Sigil itself.

For Runes like Superior Rune of the Nightmare – 5% chance to cause Fear when hit. (Cooldown: 90s) it would be Superior Rune of the Nightmare – Gain a charge when hit, at 19 stack the next time you are hit, Fear your attacker. (Cooldown: 90s). The charge would be a visible buff on the character, maybe even only when fully charged, unique to the Rune itself.

This seems like a simple enough premise and would help to eliminate RNG from many situations while also allowing counter play to such Runes/Sigils to be possible. Like dodging the Blood proc or prepping Stability for the fear proc. The consistency of such procs would still be relatively the same but more reliable. The same changes to traits of the same nature would be nice as well. I could imagine having multiple on hit/crit procs ready to go and hitting someone with all at once being awesome and satisfying. The charges should also be expended if an attack that would have hit doesn’t hit because of something like blind, block, invul, etc.

Just a though.

Man I just typed so much stuff.

PopeUrban.2578:

SNIP

I have talked about this before and tried just about every incarnation of the build, with Venoms with Caltrops, with different stat set ups, with different traits, with different secondary weapons. A condi set with D/D is literally just “spam 3, regen ini, spam 3 more, maybe stealth and run” and most your ini regen will get you closer to your opponent (like Infiltrators Signet with Signet Use or Steal with Kleptomaniac). Which even if you could consider that a viable strategy, the damage is minimal at best. It’s never a threat even in a team fight. Back when condi wasn’t even a meta and people ran minimal condi cleanse you couldn’t stack much bleed on anyone with sense at all even with all bleed duration runes. These days condi cleanse is a must in every build, and I don’t mean passive 3 condi’s every 10 sec like what used to be acceptable, I mean actively being able to burst cleanse in an AoE. You think those bleeds would do ANYTHING to ANY comp that has any sense at all? This is coming from the Thief that has theory crafted the Thief profession in every possible way you could imagine, and some you haven’t. I’m not someone who’s new to Thief, I have over 2k hours on the class. Honestly I’m sure most thieves who are proud of their class have done the same. In fact I’m sure you have as well. Don’t get me wrong, as I have said pretty much every thief has tried it. It’s kinda fun just as it’s usually fun to try something new.

P/D can condi burst as hard as Necro when done right except its single target instead of AoE. A much more viable option either way. I have never seen D/D condi burst. Show me and I will be impressed, intrigued, and astounded.

I REALLY love when people assume that someone has no experience just because. I’m trying to be as civil as possible here and understand there are some people who enjoy the general idea behind the original death blossom. If so, just say so. You don’t need to do it while being insulting or assuming people are lesser than your almighty benevolence.

I do however agree that the current D/D set excluding Death Blossom is a great kit for direct damage. I love the set, I always have. But as I have stated before, blowing initiative on Death Blossom may save you from that one burst when you are immobilized, but directly afterwards you better have something to get out like Shadow Refuge or Shadow Step or you are boned. The rarity of such a perfect situation begs for a move that fits the whole set more cohesively. Something that gives that utility while also contributing to the set as a whole, not a standalone move that can only be used effectively in a build that is overall flawed.

I do enjoy your comments on how the ability is simply flawed and just needs to be tweaked to be useful once again. This is a very good suggestion that could have been presented in a much more constructive manner. No one responds well to aggression, thus why I try to avoid it so much. The last bit of your reply is full of insight that I agree with completely, as I used to zerg dive with Death Blossom and Malice back in the day. Fun times. Having variety on a set with a class based on ini instead of cooldowns makes sense but one move vs four seems a bit stacked. Then conditions got too strong, Death Blossom got it’s evade broken around the same time. Lethal combo for a once fun to use move. Worst part, even after breaking it they made it cost more ini, which was a huge bummer.

Keyce.8137:

I don’t have much to say against Death Blossom, but I while reading through this I suddenly had the crazy idea to swap DB with Unload for the P/P build, with some minor variations.

D/D’s version of Unload would be several dagger strikes in a row for flat damage (think of a warrior’s 100 Blades but less overall damage to account for the fact you can cast it while moving around a target).

P/P’s version of Death Blossom would have the same animation/evasion as the D/D skill, but its attack ranged would be about equal to the range of the auto attack. As well, it would shoot up to three targets three times each (unless something gets in the way), but come with a higher initiative cost to prevent it from being used as a core skill and spammed. Physical Projectile finisher makes more logical sense for this skill, but since you’re still spinning around, whirl isn’t too much of a stretch.

Both of these have already been suggested, and I agree it would be an awesome switch that would most likely work really well to synergize both sets with themselves.

Dee Jay.2460:

I would personally like to see something that allows D/D to go toe to toe with more melees, like Black Powder currently does as well as providing some much needed AoE/Cleave damage.

First I was thinking – Anticipating Strike – Stand ready and should your enemy attack, you evade his strike him below his armor causing X damage and adding 5 stacks of Vulnerability. It also turns an active boon into a condition for 6 seconds.

So kind of like those Mesmer counter-moves. It would be a fairly new skill for the Thief skill-set but it lacks real AoE. So maybe a copy of Diablo 3’s “7-sided strike” would be cooler.

7-sided strike – lash out at your foe 7 times in a blurred frenzy. Each attack hits a target within 300 range for X. The thief is invulnerable during the 3 second animation.

Problem is, it would be very similar to Pistol Whip in a number of ways….but the same could be said about Death Blossom. The attack would also be quite potent against single targets, which might not be exactly what D/D needs.

I love both idea’s. I actually was thinking about something like the 7-side strike the other day. Kinda like Feora’s ult in LoL. would be pretty neat.

Diak Atoli.2085:

First off, I must admit that I like the current dual skill. Weapon sets should be focused, but every skill needs a reason to be used. Another vanilla direct damage skill would be pointless. Besides, variety is the spice of life, right?

With that in mind, however, I present several alternatives!

• Death’s Passage – Distract your opponent with an offhand strike, then whirl around your target and stabbing them in the back. (Like a BAMF. Imagine that skritt!)
  1/4 Second, 5 Initiative
  - First Strike Damage: 201 (1.2)
  - Second Strike Damage: 544 (2.14)
  - Blind: 1/2 Seconds
  - Finisher: Whirl

• Assassin’s Escape – Stab your target in the shoulders, flipping over them and double kicking to launch both you and your target apart. (Parkour, anyone?)
  _5 Initiative
  - Damage (2x): 501 (1.5)
  - Kick Damage: 188 (1.0)
  - Knockback: 600
  - Finisher: Leap

Take these as you will. I, at least, had fun coming up with them.

Haha very creative to say the least. Like them both. I like variety and as you can see by most of these suggestions, no one would want another “vanilla” direct damage move either. =P Just kinda feel “spam 3” should never be a build design, or even a viable strategy in the least bit.
On a side note, adding a CC to ANY of thieves weapon skills would be way too easy to abuse so keep that in mind.

Shadow Frenzy – Strike your target with 5 lighting quick attacks while evading. The last hit does bonus damage and transfers a condition to your foe. This would sort of be like most multi hit moves except it would move you forward/towards your target at around 0.75(75%) movement speed while evading like mesmer Blurred frenzy. Further more it would be single target. Could maybe even combine it with Daendur.2357 idea where you can charge it and does more damage the longer you charge it. The first 4 attacks would do about the same damage as Double Strike, the last hit doing damage around the same as Wild Strike. the condi transfer on the last hit would be rather hard to land, would most likely require a steal or some sort of shadow step right before to land on someone who knows its coming, which would be neat.

Daendur.2357:

d/d 3:
Charge a powerful attack with both daggers.
The more time you charge it the more damage you deal.
Take root at your place while charging.
2 ini/s

Damage will be calculated on the amount of initiative spent and will significantly increase with it

A sort of Churning Earth

That sounds really cool! Love the idea. Still waiting on thief rifle where the stealth shot uses all ini and does more damage the more ini it uses. =P

Seras.5702:

As a condition thief, I love Death Blossom. I can evade, reposition, and spread bleed on multiple foes in 1 skill. And the dagger auto dishes poison on its 3rd chain skill. But those skills don’t gel with HS and even CnD because BS will hit like a feather as a condition spec. If you could combine the condition skills from D/D & P/D into 1 set I’d be so happy.

I love the retreat/torment of P/D#3, its auto attack bleeds, and its stealth skill stacks bleeds. If you could somehow put DB on P/D I’d be so happy. And make the auto chain bleed>bleed>poison. And then make dagger’s auto 3rd chain dish weakness or vuln instead of poison. And then make the D/D #3 a power-based attack.

Replace pistol#2 with a pistol version of Death Blossom, whereby the thief leaps over the target (just like in DB) and fires a scattergun type spread at up to 3 targets & bleed (just like DB). Lose none of the functionality but just make it a pistol skill. Then we won’t need an immob because we’d have 2 movement skills (#2 & #3).

Yes I totally agree. Death Blossom fits really well into a condition set but unfortunately the whole d/d set is all schizophrenic. It wants to be everything but making a build that uses everything is just, I guess, beyond my reach. I have tried and failed to make some sort of hybrid build with it and just ended up going back to power. Tried a condi build and p/d is just better for it. Uses less ini for more condi and more survivability.

I was actually talking to a friend about something just like this today. What he proposed is change the d/d 3 to something like one of the above suggestions (our favorite is the condi transfer/evade 2 part move) and move the whirl finisher to the p/p set. make Unload a Devil May Cry style whirling thing just like Death Blossom but instead of with daggers, it would be while rapid firing the pistols. So like combining Unload and Death Blossom, keeping the evade even. A lot of people seem to complain about Unload spammers anyways. I really liked the suggestion, sounds really awesome. If you ever equip d/d and p/p at the same time, try using Unload then switching weapons, or maybe use Death Blossom then switch. Either way you have to use the move and switch at almost the exact same time and on your screen it looks sorta like what I’m talking bout here that would be cool.

On a side note, I by no means expect any of this to ever actually happen. I just really enjoy thinking about what might be cool in this game and talking about what you guys think about it. Viable? Silly? Down right awesome? What do you think?