Guild Wars 2

Handin.4032:

Mesmers in large group play I think now have some of the worst build flexibility. This is mostly because they’re told to keep at least 3/4 utilites that are either Veil, portal, nullfield and their elite is either TW/MI. I’ve started playing my engineer more recently mostly because doing mesmer like that got boring…

People need to learn that mesmers != veil/portalbots! It is very boring play for us to just be veilbots when we have so much more! (I’ve seen a person berate a mantra mesmer because they didn’t have veil slotted for not being a group player…)

I feel you

Out of the my only 3 level 80’s, the Mesmer was the first I leveled after launch. I quit playing the Mesmer in late September of 2012 because I knew the profession was pigeonholed into the Veil/Portal/Null Field support bot role (which is super boring). Good luck with your Engineer. I bet its a lot funner to play ATM.

Hammer/Shout Guardians (majority of the frontline)
Staff Elementalists (fields)
Staff/Well Necromancers (AoE DPS and CC)
Banner/Shout Warriors (Rezzing)
Mesmer for Veil and Portal.

So where do the other professions fit in this meta?

Is this meta healthy for the game as a whole?

Chopps.5047:

Roll a mesmer to enjoy wvw! Ahahahaha I’m dying laughing over here. Aw my ribs hurt, stop! STOP! Ahaha

LOL! Mesmer? Enjoy? WvW? Thats a joke right? I am sorry but I played a Mesmer at launch to 80 and 3 weeks later started playing a Ranger and never looked back.

Zerging in WvW is all about builds. Guardians are pigeonholed into Shouts and Hammer all the time, staff Elementalists for fields and staff Necromancers for marks and wells. Without that no zerg is going to make it far. Mesmer only contribute veil, portal and a zerg only needs 2 or 3 and Warriors are just basically there for banner rezzing and shout condition remove just like the guardian. The 3 medium armor professions just feel out of place because Guardians and Elementalists provide all the support a large group needs ATM.

WvW right now is still at a primitive state that zerging guilds are starting to use more field/blast combos more; therefore, a group of Guardians and Elementalists are going to be desired first because of Guardians having a blast on a 4sec CD and Elementalists having the right fields the group needs but don’t think for one sec that Rangers don’t bring anything to the table. Stability from “Stand your Ground” is soft countered by cripple, immobilize and slow which Rangers provide all of them. Also, we have a great water field and other tools that help the group out.

http://www.anook.com/topic/1763

The link above is a draft of the builds I have been working with since the last couple of patches. I only use the longbow when I have to switch from zerging to roaming but you need to play the Ranger in a zerg as a bunker/melee/CC and not as a glass cannon range.

The video above is from a guildie but you see me there a lot (I am the female human with the Dragon helm and Holographic wings). I am the only Ranger that runs with the guild because I focus on team support and CC more then damage. If you want easy loot bags, play the guardian. I rather help wipe two large zergs then getting loot bags by spamming 1 on my staff. Learn when to use muddy terrain, spike trap and entangle and you will see results.

@ OP, I recently leveled a guardian to 80 and after a few days I came to the same conclusion. A few weeks later, I realized that guardian has to be the easiest/most boring profession in the game to play.

I have spent months playing a Ranger in zerg warfare and I have learned that the ranger is only as good as the players playing them.

After reading this thread and many others, 2 important utility skills are never or hardly mentioned:

Muddy Terrain and Spike Trap.

ATM, the current meta relies on Guardians spamming “Stand our Ground” of AoE stability that there other core professions rely on. There are 3 counters to stability:

Immobilize, Cripple and Slow.

Yes, with all of the condition removal a player may think its pointless buts its not. Learning how to use Spike Trap, Muddy Terrain and Entangle will help your group slow down/CC other support zergers lagging behind the guardian/warrior melee train so your group can pick these players off.

Rangers are a good zerging profession and a more well rounded compare to others. I have a blog on anook that I have posted a few builds I have been working with recently.

This is a major problem with the Ranger class. I don’t mind having the pet with us all the time but there are many situations that the pets are just useless.

For example:

In the current state of WvW, if you are not solo roaming or doing small teams, chances are you are with the zerg. The pets have very low survivability during fights with 20 + players fighting against each other with AoE spamming all over the place. Because the response time on our pet’s F2 abilities are still very slow and the leash ranges is terrible, there is no point to have the pets out until our group starting culling the enemy numbers some.

If they want us to have the pet out all the time, that is fine, but not to give use compensation for our pets death. The pets are ok in small engagements but in large engagements such as WvW, World Bosses, Champion bosses, and so on, the pets are just a decoration or a buff at best.

We should be able to use our F2 skills all the time or give us a new F-key skill on pets deaths.

Also, if our pets are kept on passive, when the Ranger uses the pets F2 skill, the ability should be cast by the Ranger until the Ranger commands the pet to attack a target. The reason I would like this is because if you have the pet on passive and use its F2 on the move, chances are the pet is 400-900 range behind you and the pet will stop to cast the ability missing the Ranger most of the time (Spirits unbound have this same issue). And having the pet on passive or guard in WvW, chances are the pet is going to be CC while the Ranger is bobbing and weaving around the massive AoE on the ground.

Sorry for the wall of text but this is an issue I have with the pet.

This post just remembers me of this video someone posted on the Ranger forums a fellow days ago.

I don’t PvE much because I am in a WvW focused guild but if ANet ever introduces raids or more large scale battles, us Rangers are going to have a hard time keeping our DPS up if they don’t figure out a way to keep our pets alive during these large scale encounters.

In Zerg vs Zerg, our pets are going to die fast in any engagement that has 20+ enemies. I don’t know if pet evasion when we dodge roll is going to be enough. My issue is the lack our F2 ability after our pets are die. Us Rangers are good at staying alive but our poor pets we can never use them or their F2.

Last night I did some SPvP hotjoins before I went to sleep and the pet is fine in smaller engagements but the second I run with a zerg of 20+ in WvW, I can only think about the Ranger’s survival and the pet is a little more useful than a mini-pet. I just hope ANet see this issue that we lost access to our F2 abilities all the time during these large battles which is disappointing because our pets have some cool abilities.

I have to say that ANet has been doing a great job on improving the Ranger since launch, but one thing still bothers me and that is our F2 abilities.

I can’t speak for PvE and in Spvp but in WvW (which is what I do the most), the pets and their F2 abilities are just meaningless. Because my pet(s) are dead before I can blink, us Rangers can only rely on builds that only benefit the Ranger and never have access to the pets F2 abilities or have trouble execute them properly vs large numbers. The ranger gets penalized for dead pets because we lose 30%+ of our damage, we have to wait 60 secs for each pet to revive and have no access to our F2 abilities. This is really unfair and a major issue that holds us Rangers back.

I had an idea last night about fixing this issue (& I bet 800 other players came up with this idea too or better ones ^_-):

If the pet is on passive or dead the Ranger should be able to still use their pets F2 abilities through the Ranger. Meaning: If I have a River Drake out and if it‘s on passive or dead, the Ranger will cast the Drake’s Lightening breath F2 ability. Yes, some F2 skills might need to be tweaked such as the jaguar’s Stalk F2 but we should be able to use these skills regardless of the pet being dead.

There might be better options to fixing the F2 abilities but this is a major issue and I know I am not alone about this.

Thank you.

OMG Anet you are the best!!

Chopps.5047:

I can defeat enemies regularly with the following builds in wvw:

• Bleed/condi
• trap
• valkyrie / precise strike 12k + mauls or 9k first longbow auto
• Berserker with signet of beastmaster
• regen / bunker in wilderness survival / nature magic
• regen / bunker in wilderness survival / marks
• regen / bunker in nature magic / beastmastery
• regen / binker in wilderness surival / beastmastery
• magi / companion’s might build
• Longbow / sun spirit / sharpening stone long distance condi
• celestial (coming soon)

Ranger is awesome in GvG as Ward will be showing you all soon (is there a schedule for matches)? I have at least half a dozen ‘plays’ involving ranger and I’ve been working closely with some of their team mates.

Ranger is synonymous with harassment. To ranger is to throw nature’s wrath upon the enemy, laughing at their futile resistance to Nature’s Erosion.

Ranger’s are a soft counter to current GvG meta. Just to many egos and Betty Crocker cutter cookies builds ATM.

I will give this a shot.

I play a Ranger in Zerg vs Zerg all the time. Creating a spec for a Ranger for zerg combat is very situational at times. I tend to run builds that cater to the situations I am in.

Ranger zerg builds should be more power base because of all of the condition removal, if the Ranger focuses on condition damage its going to get removed quickly because of all of the minus condition duration foods and Superior Runes of Melandru’s most front line are stacking.

Rangers need health. 20k should be a minimum.

Toughness depending if you want to be more mid-line or back line.
Back line is more for glassier range builds that don’t want to be near the front line
Mid-line is more for tanker builds that are going to move back and forth from front-line to back line. If you choose to be more mid-line: 2.8k-3.k Armor is a good number to be around.

I tend to play more of a mid-line ranger. I like having the ability to fight up close and switch to range at the drop of a hat.

Healing Spring and Bonfire are our only reliable source of combo fields. Traps are to situational to rely on as combo fields.

We need a weapon base blast finisher. I use drakes a lot in zerg combat but the blast is to RNG and we all know that pet survival in zerg engagements is very minimal.

Know your tools
Skills like: Muddy Terrain, Spike Trap, Frost Trap, Entangle, Whirling Defense, Power Stab on Greatsword 1, Barrage, canines skills, porcine skills, drake skills and even the Frost and Stone Spirits can all be useful when fighting the zergs.

Armor is up to the Ranger. I use P/V/T armor with Melandru’s. I switch my trinkets around if I need more damage I tend us a mix of caviler, valkyrie, and berserker or I use full P/V/T trinkets with exquisite ruby orbs if I need the defense will minimal lost of damage.

Builds is up to your play style. I like to CCing zergs a much as possible so I look at the tools I am offered and by trail and error see which ones are working for me or not.

I don’t GvG because of the elitism of other players telling other what works or not when basically the two groups GvGing are all the same professions and builds.

Sorry to here that Chopps You have been a great help to people in the Ranger community. It makes me upset from time to time that we are the scapegoat to others poor play. I haven’t PvE much since Christmas but in WvW I have played every spec from GS Marksman to Regen BM and I have to tell you, the forums don’t reflect the potential the Ranger has.

I remember back in beta a year ago, I was psyched to play a Mesmer in PvP until I started fighting against Rangers. I decided during the last beta weekend to play a Ranger a bit. Wow, I really loved the weapon mechanics to the class; although, I have to me the worst pet micro manager ever. After launch I leveled my Mesmer to 80 and got bored of it quickly so I decided to level my Ranger next. It was so much fun. The tears I saw on the forums was a mystery to me because I really enjoyed the profession. I leveled a guardian recently to help my guild out in WvW and I have to say that the Guardian is GW2 on easy mode. One spec can do it all, plus in WvW all you have to do is spam 1 on staff and survive and loot bags rain down. That is sad IMHO. I can only play the Guardian in WvW for an hour or 2 before I am bored to tears and I just want to go back the the ranger because IMHO that is where the fun is.

Thanks again Chopps for your helpfulness and good luck to ya!

Chopps.5047:

“No block skill”

Greatsword has counterattack block, offhand axe has reflect—shows how little you know about ranger, OP. Ranger is a high skill ceiling class in dungeons. I have 2000 hours and 7000 achievent points. What irks me is people like you (noobs) saying ranger sucks in dungeons. You perpetuate a uselss myth. Look at yourself. Maybe you are the one who sucks. Be kitten yourself; stop blaming it on the devs. All I see is baseless QQ:

1) Spirits health has been buffed by 25% once and then by 60% AND THEN they buffed them further by combining two spirit traits and making it one adept trait. Spirits are fixed in terms of living long enough for buffs. I use them in FOTM 48 on krait, mobs in Ascalon city, and anywhere else there isn’t massive aoe (I switch to signets during AoE heavy parts). You can argue for better spirits like Jin does but you can’t sit here and tell me they instantly die all the time. That’s bollocks.

2) “80% spells in pets” not even close dude, wayyyy off

3) COMPLAINING ABOUT RANGER HEALING???? Are you serious? Ranger has the best heals in the game dude! What the hell???

4) WvW no escape – I outrun entire zergs with greatsword, shared anguish, empathic bond, and healing spring as well as soft landing, if I want. Ranger is likely the most sliperry of all classes, again everyone agrees with this and it shows your lack of knowledge.

TL:DR
New player dies a lot and blames it on the devs. Nothing to see here, move allng

Couldn’t have said this better. Rangers have a learning cliff compare to Warriors and Guardians.

I like Axe/Axe for WvW. The off hand is not easy to use and can be situational but the main hand is great if you spec into Horned Axe with a good amount of Power/Crit/Crit Damage. The offhand in zerg warfare is a hit or miss. Path of Scars is good to use if your fighting in chokes to pull enemies into your groups AOE and Whirling Defense is an underrated ability IMO. WD is great for finishing off stacks of downed player and defending siege or allies against projectiles. I have been running Axe/Axe with a GS or LB and it have been a ton of fun.

I was thinking of a support build for WvW and I am only at the theory crafting/testing stage myself but this is a rough build I came up with.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-F;4wEVx-d2JDF-0;9k29;2JJT;239-06-30B;14JH0;2UytbUytb20FQk5J7;2VPVUWZXdYj3p_2uVIF310;5W6TsW6T;9;9;9;9;85k3H

Also, have a weapon with Super Sigil of Restoration to stack more healing. This build is for DPS and support/control.

Sorry I haven’t tested it yet but it was a similar direction you are going in.

Manekk.6981:

You’d get more out of celestial trinkets and full knight armor, it’ll be roughly the same stats you have now it’ll be about 150 less power but would still be alot more damage with 20% higher critchance and about 55% critdamage.

all around stats wise yeah, but I have to work with would I got ATM and I rather have the damage over stats like condition and healing.

Cempa.5619:

That’s my point, why use regen sigil at all.

If you are talking about Signet of the Wild, I use it for stability and damage. I can care less about the regen. My build is a Power/Bunker centered around the marksmanship grandmaster trait: Signets of the Beastmaster which allows the ranger to gain the effects from the signets just as our pets does.

People that play BM bunkers only use Signet of the Wild for the passive regen and never use the activate effect.

Understand?

My build is very tanky for a power build. I only go down the NM tree for Natures Protection and the extra 1000 health, the regen is pretty useless.

1. Barrage CD lowered to 20/25 second base
2. A Blast Finisher on one of the Rangers weapons
3. Fix pet’s AI and allow Rangers to choose the one of the 4 abilities on a pet as the F2.

I used this video to illustrate how I feel sometimes playing the Ranger. At 3: 40 in the video this is exacting how I feel when it comes to Rangers in WvW and in PvE.

The rapper is the Rangers and the 40 oz is the pet.

here is the build I am running ATM: 30/0/30/10/0

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|1.1g.hy|3.1g.h2|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|1p.61.2v.e14.3t.e16.1p.61.1g.67.1c.67|u14b.0.u1ab.a6.0|0.0|4i.4x.4p.4r.54|e

I will be tweaking it a bit and will have a P/V/T version soon.

Wastrelz.8235:

The question somewhat misses the point, because the best zergs are balanced with different classes. If a zerg has 10 Necro’s already, for example, the addition of one more will not have much impact. But if they have only 1 Mezmer and you brought a second one, that could be invaluable.

AydenStar.4216:

If you wanted to zerg ATM the top 5 profession are the ones with the synergy.

The bottom 3 are the black sheep’s of the zerg. They are missing abilities that would make them necessary in the zerg.

Yes, the synergy is the important thing. However, the other three classes are not useless in a zerg by any means; just not individually necessary, perhaps.

Even that is somewhat debatable, however. For example, if you realize the value of having a good scout, you may appreciate how much a thief who’s good at it can benefit a zerg. Not much appreciated, perhaps, but can be a matter of life and death for the entire zerg, perhaps making 1 Thief, at times, THE most valuable class of all.

Any profession can scout. True, thieves my do it better then other classes but should that be his/her only role in WvW? Rangers are good a soloing camps, is that their purpose in WvW? If so, I want my money back….

On my Ranger, like to this build:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|1.1g.hy|3.1g.h2|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|1p.61.2v.e14.3t.e16.1p.61.1g.67.1c.67|u14b.0.k1a.f6.5|0.0|4i.4x.4p.4r.54|e

Good defensive CDs, CC with Muddy Terrain and Entangle, Healing Spring, good amount of armor and good damage with GS and LB.

In the video the first build is a trap, the rest are all in the build I mention above

Killsmith.8169:

I don’t see why maul couldn’t have a blast finisher. Guardian’s hammer puts down a light field with the auto attack and has a blast finisher on the #2 skill. You can use that blast finisher with a light field every 4 3/4 seconds.

The water field blast finisher isn’t as strong as you would think. My group once toyed with spamming the banner’s blast finisher inside of healing spring for extra healing. The results weren’t impressive.

In groups I don’t see a problem with it, but in Spvp this can be abused to stay alive when you have 2 leap finishers, 3 blast finishers from Mauls on one weapon within the 15 seconds Healing Spring is up. That is why I think it would be a bit OP.

Also, the healing from a blast finisher is based on the profession doing the blast. A full cleric gear profession will heal more with a blast than any profession without or less healing gear on.

As a community, we need to let ANet know that not having a weapon base blast finisher is one of the tools that is holding us back as a profession. We shouldn’t rely on a RNG blast from the Drakes to achieve this. When you look at this list of blast finishers:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blast_finisher

we are the only profession that:
a) has no blast finisher on a weapon or utility skill.
b) has to rely on one pet line for a vital teaming ability we have no control over and is not available when the pet is dead

This is an ability Rangers should have a convenient access to just like the other 7 profession.

Atherakhia.4086:

Guardian
Mesmer
Elementalist
Warrior
Necomancer
Engineer
Ranger
Thief

That is how I’d rank classes from most useful to least useful to a zerg. The top 6 classes can change a little bit depending on who you ask. the bottom 2 won’t as neither has any real utility or worth to large group combat other than their singular field or singular blast finisher.

This is the order of usefulness I feel each class has in WvW:
Guardian
Elementalist
Necomancer
Warrior
Mesmer
————————
Thief
Engineer
Ranger

If you wanted to zerg ATM the top 5 profession are the ones with the synergy.

The bottom 3 are the black sheep’s of the zerg. They are missing abilities that would make them necessary in the zerg.

After watching this video, I was like: well this guy must play a Ranger.

I think we are at a point in this game where professions are going to be dissected for their usefulness and other professions will be situational or not needed. I would like that not to happen when everyone plays a profession they prefer to play.

The Ranger has to be one of the most interesting professions to play once you start playing another profession. The Ranger was the second profession I leveled to 80 out of my 3 level 80s and have played the profession the most with over 700 hours of gameplay. I love playing the Ranger. Except for my half brain dead or literally dead pet, the ranger is a fun profession regardless. But what holds the Ranger back is our pet. Beside it be arguably 30% to 40% of our damage, the primitive AI, lack of evasion mechanic, no AoE damage mitigation, relying on our pet’s survival for our F2 ability and the pet’s F2 abilities being lack-luster compare to its RNG abilities put the Ranger in a category I would call Situational Limbo: not great at everything and not need by anyone.

I am a WvW PvPer. I focus a lot of my time in WvW and I think the Ranger needs some love IMHO. I support a lot of the changes from the last patch. They did one important thing that a lot have us ignored but it was a great change was: the Nature’s Voice trait. They made an unused skill tree useful. It’s not the greatest of changes but it a step in the right direction. Rangers lack a defined support role in both WvW and PvE. The addition of Nature’s Voice has opened the door half way for Ranger’s usefulness in a group situation. The next two steps I think Anet needs to take are:

1. Adding Blast Finishers to 1 or 2 of the Rangers current weapons
2. More Boon Sharing

1. Blast Finishers are badly needed on the Ranger. Projectile finishers are ok but not enough, Swoop finishers only affected the Ranger and the Ranger’s Whirl finisher is a 5 sec channeled standing still. People can argue that Rangers have the best water field in the game but that field is one of our core healing skills putting us in: Situational Limbo. I have few choices when to us Healing Spring: a) heal myself, b) place it to heal my group or c) us it to remove conditions. If I make the wrong choice, I am dead or my group is dead. Having a Blast Finisher on: 1. Hilt Bash 2. Call of Nature 3. Barrage would be the proper weapon skills to put them on without introducing a new blunt weapon. The cool downs to these weapons are from 20 to 35 seconds so the Rangers could only use it once per Healing Spring. I have love to see Maul get a Blast Finisher but with Healing Spring lasting 15 seconds, it’s just too OP and would be abused.

2. More Boon Sharing is another thing holding the Ranger back. Yes we have access to Call of Nature and now with the new Nature’s Voice trait we can spam perma Regen/Swiftness but we should have some of our utility skills to help with boon sharing. For example:
Ranger’s Signet. Our signets could have two ways of sharing boons: a) Beastmaster’s Might: Activating a signet grants 3 stacks of might to the Ranger and allies (15 seconds) b) Signet of the Beastmaster: Active effects of signets also affect you and your allies. My version of Signets of the Beastmaster boon sharing has to be watered down because sharing stability and increase damage to a group would make the Ranger needed for the one skill only. I would be happy with one or the other but you see where I am getting at.

Finally, I need to talk about my experience with the pet. The pets I have a hate, love, hate you relationship. Playing WvW mostly, the only time I see the pet is before a battle and after the battle when it’s revived itself. If you watch any of my WvW videos I ignore the pet almost completely (except in small fights). The reason I do this is: if I focus on saving my pet, I die and that is not good with the rally mechanic but if I focus on myself the pet dies but I live on. So in WvW zerg fighting, I become this low damage dealing class with no support abilities, no F key skills like every other profession has and become a situational utility (or situational limbo). Even with these disadvantages I still love play a Ranger!

Because the pet is such a liability to a Ranger, we need tools to support our pets and our allies. Many professions in this game can place fields and blast them and share boons with allies, remove conditions from allies with other utility skills, crowd control and does better damage all in one build. The Ranger on the other hand is stuck in Situational Limbo relying on the pet heavily, we only focus on builds to do only one role mediocrely; whereas, most of the other professions can do 2 or 3 roles in one build. My issue with the Ranger at the moment is more about giving us tools to help our allies (including the pet) survival. This would open the door for a more dynamic Ranger play in groups and in general.
Thank you.
P.S. The reason I brought this up is because of the evolving Meta in WvW and a discussion I had yesterday on the WvW Forums:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Did-WvW-recreate-the-Trinity

It is time Rangers are given this skill on 1 or 2 of their main weapons.

Best weapon skills to get the Blast Finisher IMHO:

1. Hilt Bash
2. Call of the Wild
3. Barrage
4. Maul

Tail Swipe is too RNG to control. Except for Bonfire and Healing Spring the Ranger’s combo fields are RNG from pets or situational Fire and Frost traps are set off. Every profession has a reliable Blast Finisher; puppies, some can have 3 or 4 blast finishers in one build.

Straegen.2938:

I do not believe the trinity is in GW2 at least not in the traditional sense. I think GW2 got it right with Support, Damage and Utility categories. Even with those categories defined, most builds fall into multiple categories.

I think Anet got it right with the support, damage and utility but they gave Guardians easy access to a blast finisher with Hammer 2 and Light/Fire fields and condition removal with shouts. Warriors have easy access to blast finisher in Warhorn 5, Banner rez, and condition removal with shouts. Elementalist have easy access to most fields via staff, and Necromancers easy DPS/CC with staff and Dark fields from wells. Mesmer’s on the other hand just support the zerg with portal and veil.

Thieves, Engineer and Rangers are stick in situational limbo. The 5 professions mentioned above can pretty much fill 2 of these roles with one build; where as, the 3 medium profession don’t even come close.

Boulderbolg.3460:

Actually, havoc squads as small as a duo or trio also can utilize the basterdized version of the holy trinity in this game. As a 5 man, lately we almost never run without a couple of heal/support builds. Doing so really improves our ability to take on more numbers than we normally can.

I like the fields/finishers in this game but its apparent that Blast finishers>Whirl and Projectile finishers. Sooner or later players will require professions with blast finishers/professions with the best access to certain combo fields. As the game stands now, only 5 profession synergy well; where as, the medium armor professions are stuck in situational limbo.

Finally a valid discussion on this forum.

lioka qiao.8734:

WvW did bring back the trinity. Anet only hid it, they didn’t remove it.

I want a good fight so I’ll tell you how to form it:
Tanks: bunker specs. These stack PVT and Cleric and build to strip conditions and sustain heals. Tanks specs should carry ample wards and snares so they can keep the enemy around them.

DPS: These are zerker and full condition damage specs. DPS carries damage and doesn’t stack PVT. They don’t go full zerker either but have a little bit of tankiness. DPS comes in ranged and melee forms. The ranged DPS is responsible for snaring and AOEing the enemy front line. The melee dps is responsible for destroying anything that attacks the ranged DPS and for hunting down enemy healers/soft targets. DPSers should carry ample disruption and use it to maximum effect.

Healers: Healer specs specialize in clearing conditions and healing. Healer specs carry some DPS too. Healers come in ranged and melee. Ranged Healers stay in the back line and are responsible for dropping water fields on the front line and generally healing them. They can drop CCs and snares too. Anything that helps them mitigate damage should be used. Melee healers are there to keep the dps backline safe. They will keep the DPS clear of conditions so that the DPS can do what they do best (damage).

The puzzle is figuring out how to put this all together and I’ll leave that up to you. BTW, trinity should be possible in sPvP and to an extent in pve too.

This is correct. The key is how players but all these pieces together. What I am worried about is certain professions provide the best field/blast combos or DPS/utility more efficiently than the others. We are starting to see key profession stacking for 25+ zerg warfare which excludes other professions/builds to havoc squads/roaming/scouting/reroll/respec. The key profession builds are highly rewarded for having the better field/blast combo synergy or DPS/utility; where as, other professions become more of a liability due to the lack of synergy they provide in a large group.

LOL, I haven’t used the bow since the patch because I am still testing builds with the new Nature’s Voice trait but once or twice I tried finishing off down players using the pet swap.

rchu.8945:

AydenStar.4216:

Chopps.5047:

D&D shortbow is 600 inches
D&D longbow is 1200 inches
GW2 is heavily influenced by that game. Just a thought. Maybe you should be glad it’s not 600 range?
Still…
Shortbow is almost as powerful as sword, pierces, and stacks insane might on pet with companion’s might and berserker now with the huge buff to companions might. Arguably, in dungeons and wvw, shortbow just got a lot better. In pvp it is a nerf because people were pressuring points from 1200 inches with a psuedo-melee weapon. Come on, that’s not too strong? Everyone and their mom used shortbow until yesterday because of it’s ridiculous range. It should have been nerfed a long time ago.

Btw warrior is awful at range. Ranger is much stronger. Source: I have character slots for every profession and test them in the mists.

WOW! I was just about to open the D&D players hand book for this info. Thank you Chopps.

To the players that are upset about the SB change. I am sorry but this change was a long time coming and it is not the end of the world. I really think many of our fellow Rangers have been over reacting and have not tried to deal with these balance changes.

This quote from the OP:
“The Ranger is a RANGED character class – the clue is in the title.”

Sadly, you haven’t experienced playing a Ranger classes in D&D table top/computer games based on D&D and its a petty. I see the SB change as a LP2 moment and some people just can’t handle it

it’s actually a learn 2 read moment for you can you check this out:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

“Unparalleled archers” and “capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.” I assume “bows” shouldn’t limit to just long bows, correct?

SB is fine at 900 range. What is not fine is longbow and shortbow having the same range as a base. It makes no sense. It is not a learn 2 read moment when you give me a generic game description to justify SB having a 1200 base range.

Chopps.5047:

D&D shortbow is 600 inches
D&D longbow is 1200 inches
GW2 is heavily influenced by that game. Just a thought. Maybe you should be glad it’s not 600 range?
Still…
Shortbow is almost as powerful as sword, pierces, and stacks insane might on pet with companion’s might and berserker now with the huge buff to companions might. Arguably, in dungeons and wvw, shortbow just got a lot better. In pvp it is a nerf because people were pressuring points from 1200 inches with a psuedo-melee weapon. Come on, that’s not too strong? Everyone and their mom used shortbow until yesterday because of it’s ridiculous range. It should have been nerfed a long time ago.

Btw warrior is awful at range. Ranger is much stronger. Source: I have character slots for every profession and test them in the mists.

WOW! I was just about to open the D&D players hand book for this info. Thank you Chopps.

To the players that are upset about the SB change. I am sorry but this change was a long time coming and it is not the end of the world. I really think many of our fellow Rangers have been over reacting and have not tried to deal with these balance changes.

This quote from the OP:
“The Ranger is a RANGED character class – the clue is in the title.”

Sadly, you haven’t experienced playing a Ranger classes in D&D table top/computer games based on D&D and its a petty. I see the SB change as a LP2 moment and some people just can’t handle it

Ryan.8367:

You already got close to perma regen long before this horrible trait was put into place. It’s kittening useless, you’re gonna lose so much damage getting 10seconds more of regen by going 30 deep into NM. It’s not even worth it really, and shouts are terrible as it is. Nothing but more fodder for trolly bunker specs that won’t be able to kill kitten in 1on1s.

I want more offensive based specs to arise, yet these trash rangers wanna be able to get more regen / protection so they can eat more kitten and not dodge important things effectively.

This new trait opens a way for Rangers to be more support base in group play which was badly needed for them.

I was thinking of the same build last night. Different utility skills for WvW but same build. It going to be interesting how this new build plays out.

I love playing a Ranger! Here’s to the future.

I think this post proves how out of touch you and your guild’s leadership are in WvW. Because your guild chooses to isolate themselves from the rest of the SoR WvW community, you folks had no idea what was going on during the week we were up against a rank 4 (TC) and 7 (SoS) servers. It sadness me to see Sinister Swarm turn into this troll guild in the eyes of the SoR WvW community do to two or three bad apples The shenanigans Employee pulls with the supply on any boarderland or running around farming materials with his commander badge on (or possible botting) has done nothing but make him a troll in the eyes of the entire SoR WvW community and is unfair to his fellow guildies because overall they are good people and shouldn’t be judged his actions.

After Sinister Swarm lost its competent WvW leaders, the guild spiral downward hard and instead of replacing or training new competent commanders, your guild leadership chooses PvE officers as replacements with no WvW experience and also pushed out the other members how were ready to take over. (/shrug) It has been over a half of year since Employee and Greshmael have taken over WvW for the Swarm and ATM, their guild can hardly field 10 players and has a bad reputation because of Employee’s achievement farming.

I think Indo, TW and the rest of the SoR WvW community has done a great job making WvW the environment for all SoR guilds and players who choose to be part of the community or NOT.

I only blame the Swarm’s bad choice of WvW leadership resulting in them having a bad reputation for months now.

@ OP:
I’ll bite at this post…

In zerg warfare, players need to take the ‘Range’ out of the Ranger and think of themselves as an evasive melee range class with limited long range options. Most of the ranger’s damage mitigation comes from the protection buff from Companion’s Defense, the evasion from the Greatsword 1 skill and block from GS 4 skill. Specing into Signets of the Beastmaster and use Signet of Stone (6 sec damage immunity) and Signet of the Wild (Stability) as defensive cool downs allow the ranger to stay in the front line with the hammer train when needed. That is why I made a Muddy Terrian/Entangle build for Ranger zerging: 30/0/20/20/0 (http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|1.1c.hy|7.1c.h6.f.1c.hy|1c.b1h.1c.b1h.1c.71h.1c.71h.1c.71g.1c.71g|1c.68.1c.68.1c.68.1c.68.1c.68.1c.68|u14b.0.k17.k63.0|0.0|4i.4x.4p.4r.54|e) . It’s not a loot bag machine build but it provides the support skills needed to help the zerg out as a whole and with full P/V/T (Soldier/Invaders) or a mix of P/V/T or Clerics gear, the ranger is hard to kill in general.

Sometimes I take 5 points out of Nature’s Magic and put them in Beast Mastery for Zephyr’s Speed if I am roaming and/or using the longbow. Also, I switch my gear around (30/0/20/15/5) (http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|1.1g.hy|3.1g.h2|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7|1p.61.2v.e14.3t.e16.1p.61.1g.67.1c.67|u14b.0.k1a.f6.5|0.0|4i.4x.4p.4r.54|e) so I can switch from zerging to roaming/small teams without having to respec (but that is my playstyle) but if I was in a zerg fighting 2 other large zergs, I would switch the gear setup to P/V/T or P/V/T and Clerics so I can increase my survivability.

Also, I play a hybrid Condition (Rabid) & P/V/T Trap spec as well: 0/30/20/20/0 (http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|7.1h.hy.f.1h.h1k|1.1c.hy|1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719|1c.67.1c.67.1c.67.1c.67.1c.67.1c.67|0.u28b.k17.k65.0|0.0|4i.52.51.53.54|e). This spec has a different style because of the lack of stability and damage immunity but it’s great to finish off fallen enemies, Combo fields (Bonfire, Frost Trap, and Healing Spring), CC (Spike/Frost Trap) and front line DPS. This spec is a better loot bag machine but the ranger loses a bit of survivability. With this spec, Entangle becomes harder to use because there is no stability to get the ranger into those nice pockets of stacked players to use it on but if the ranger has a shout guardian with them providing that needed stability from “Stand your Ground” wow the havoc you can cause to the enemy’s backline

Pets:
In a zerg they are almost useless. I run Wolf and Drakehound for their CCs but I keep them on passive all the time unless I am roaming or in small teams. I use the pets more for Zephyr’s Speed when I need faster Barrages, rapid fire and finishing off downed players.

In conclusion, rangers are good in the zerg but its just harder to play because of the synergy the 4 classes I mention above have with less rewards when it comes to loot bags and WXP. For many players, this play style might not be fun but it provides the support that a large group can work with. When the zerging meta starts to change, I think commander will start to see the uses of the 3 medium armor classes for they do provide tools needed in any zerg but their skills just don’t synergy well with the current meta ATM.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

AydenStar.4216:

TW trolling the ranger forums again. Please stop. We all know that rangers don’t have a place in your guilds meta strategies. Why bring a ranger when an ele/guardian/warrior/nerco can do it better. :’(

who/what is that TW?
and what You are talking about?
PS. in 1v1 with my ranger those “ele/guardian/warrior/necro” is dying… (unless necro is minion master…)
my guild’s “guid meta strategy” have wery good place for rangers….
(maybe because leader’s main is ranger)

What I am talking about is in large group (zerging) in WvW. This has nothing to do with 1v1 because in that regard, rangers do very well. What I am talking about is rangers place in a 25+ group fighting groups of equal size.

ATM, all zerg groups are made up with are Warrior/Guardian hammer train and DPS/CC/Fields from nercos and elementalist. Mesmer are only useful for veil and portals when needed. The mediums armor class (thieves/rangers/engineers) have no place in a lot of guilds zerging strategy because:

A. they are mainly too squishy to stay with the front line (except the ranger IMHO) and don’t provide much in the back line either.

B. The synergy that comes out of the Warrior/Guardian/Elementalist/Necromancers is easy for commander to use when it comes to fields, blast finishers and CC.

C. Most commanders don’t see any benefits to bring (Ranger/Thieves/Engineer) and become the scapegoat when things are going bad for a group.

My opinion: Rangers are one the best bunker professions in the game. If spec and played right the ranger can stay with the front line and provide fire (bonfire)/water (healing spring) fields when needed. and CC from muddy terrian and entangle. It would take me hours of explaining the benefits a ranger can bring to a zerg but its not loot bag machine like nercos or guardians.

TW trolling the ranger forums again. Please stop. We all know that rangers don’t have a place in your guilds meta strategies. Why bring a ranger when an ele/guardian/warrior/nerco can do it better. :’(

TBH, I think skilled Spvp players are a different caliber than skilled WvW players because S/Tpvp focus on strategies to counter other team make-up in a 5v5 situation; whereas, WvW players skill revolve around the commander/s own strategies, the tier the players are on and the amount of enemies they will encounter. IMHO, Spvp has a stale meta game pigeonholing players into cookie cutter builds for most of the conquest maps (which is fine). Also, Spvp is a great place to practice 1v1 or 1v2/3 skills but the strategies in spvp is just simple objectives, forcing the 1v2s or Rock/Paper/Scissor 1v1s on control points. WvW on the other hand offers more varies of paths for players to choose from, with their own strategies: Roaming (1-4 players), Havoc or tactic groups (5-15 players), small zerg (20-35 players) and large zerg (35+ players). These four roles in WvW can be dissecting into many different strategies that work with the players involved. I mainly do WvW, but that doesn’t mean I always want to fight in small/large zerg battles. When I am not with my guild in WvW, I roaming the borderlands most of the time fighting however I want. I theory craft and test builds that work in WvW as a whole. I am trying to prefect both my grouping and soloing skills which could be done in WvW. Also, I am not the only one that plays WvW exclusively with the same philosophy.

I think skilled Spvp players will excel at roaming and havoc teams and feel lost in zerg combat at first. Zerg combat focuses on position, AoE skills (damage, CC, Support, healing, etc) and tactical strategies (on a very micro level); whereas, spvp is more of an arena atmosphere focused more on individual skill and team composition/synergy. I think a zerg of all s/tPvper would last a day before they all rage quit do to inflated egos (but that is my option).

Furthermore, comparing Spvpers to WvWers skill is like comparing basketball players skills (spvper) to football players skills (WvWer).

This is all I am getting from this post:

Tetsuo= roamers/small groups
Vs
The Tank=large groups/zergs

jubskie.3152:

Otherwise, we can agree to disagree :P I’ve run bunker builds and it’s really not my style for WvW. I only use that in tPvP.

Absolutely!
You wrote great guide on 5/0/5 in general. I mainly focus on WvW builds and I just have some problems making this spec work for me.

I am not for “large scale arenas GvGs” at all. It would be fun at first than after a while it will become tedious to organize. In general, GvG that are perform in WvW take a long period of time to organize before fighting. All it is: a 20v20 death match based on team composition.

True GvGs take place everyday in WvW. The problem is one day a guild is larger than the other and vice-versa so players get their feelings hurt and what to fight them in a 20v20 death match.

It would be nice if Anet made a custom arena that can house a 25v25 arena so these guilds that want to death match each other have the platform to do it rather than place a whole WvW map hostage until these players get their jollies off.

osif.8673:

I don’t think anyone is talking about breaking up the zergs completely. As you can see in Devon’s quote, if the zerg is skilled then yes, they should be able to roll over a smaller group. It looks like ANet is trying to make GW2’s WvW a more skill based platform than number based. As it currently is, there’s hardly any skill involved in the mindless zerg, and yet it is still the most effective way (other than running an organized zerg) to play.

I am for this because in Tier 1 NA the mindless zerg of 60+ know better not to fight skilled WvW guilds fielding 30+ or even guild zergs vs guild zergs of equal size.

Estus.1726:

Raf.1078:

Here is what I’m reading in this thread:

My group of leet hyper skilled players cannot compete against a zerg of lesser skilled players. Therefore, ANet must tilt the game towards our type of playstyle because….

Well, this is where you guys are losing it. Cause I’ve yet to read single decent reason for tuning the game to small group play over large group play. More people zerg than play small groups.

The zerg is tkittenense of wvw. Zergs can carry more suppy for siege…can drain supply camps to deny the enemy and speed build siege on the spot for the conquest of keeps & towers.

Not to say that there isn’t a place for small group play…but not at the expense of other forms of play.

I agree. it boggles my mind that people in this thread actually wants to discourage large scale group battles in a MMORPG. What do people want? If more than 20 people are in a certain radius of each other they randomly start to drop dead?

SPVP seems to be what ANET had in mind for small groups. WvWvW IMO was designed for three massive armies to go toe to toe with each other.

WvW is a massive battlefield where players can participate in whatever way they want but my problem is when players from one form of pvp want to change the game so their style of game play has an edge. Spvp with most other arena style pvp in MMOs gets old and boring very quickly if you are running around the same maps with Rock/Paper/Scissors group make-ups.

WvW is a completely different beast to Spvp. I can roam around and kill other roamer all day long but that gets boring after a will and I rather just do spvp/Obsidian Sanctuary if i m in the mood for those small scale fights. WvW gives me and others the option to be part of a large force, scout/roaming, join smaller groups, skirmish in the jumping puzzles, level lowbies or even farm. WvW is not a balance area just like war its a 24 hr a day massive player battlefield and not a 24 hr a day battle-arena.