Guild Wars 2

In regards to Stability:

Guardian stacking in WvW has become even worst because of Stand your Ground (SyG) and Idomitable Courage (IC). Even with timed boon stripping, there will always be a Guardian that has SyG or IC up because its only a 24(SyG)/45(IC) sec CD not including that most professions keep a pocket Stability skill handy just in case the Guardian’s stability doesn’t get on them. Also, coordinated zergs are very mobile and will avoid the fields or just run right over them.

In regards to condition removal:

Plagueform spamming is the efficient way to chills on an enemy zerg to slow them down because there is only a ICD to the skill during Plagueform (not including that Plagueform grants the necro stability). Other professions that have frost, crippling and immobilize can’t spam it nearly as much as a necro in Plagueform; therefore, making other profession’s soft CC useless because someone in the opposing team will just get it removed in less then a second from the groups massive condition removal, their passive condition removal, or the short condition duration brought to you be Lemongrass Poultry Soup+Superior Runes of Melandru.

Just to let you all know, I am mainly talking about are two schools of Crowd Control: Hard and Soft Crowd Controls.

Hard CCs are usually Stuns, Knockdown, Fears or anything that Stability is immune from once active

vs

Soft CCs such as Cripples, Frost Slows, Immobilize or anything that effect a player with a Stability buff on.

Miiro.3124:

I enjoy my ranger. I guess the shoe doesn’t fit all..

I enjoy the Ranger too but I don’t enjoy bugs, broke pet mechanics, poorly designed F2 functionality, poorly designed targeting system, pets lagging behind and dying because the are on the bottom of the list for group buff and haven’t been compensated. No F key anything function once your pet is dead. These are serious issues I feel Anet has ignore for a year. If any profession need some love, we need it the most.

Given the current pvp environment either spam AoEs (tpvp), or stability and condition removal spamming with Lemongrass poultry soup and Superior Runes of Melandru (WvW). Is it time to buff Crowd Control effects to improve direct damage builds in tpvp and to slow down the Guardian pain trains that basically make their groups immuned to CCs in WvW?

Stand your Ground, Lemongrass poultry soup, Super Runes of Melandru, Super Runes of the Soldier, and so on. Good for WvW? Do they need to be nerfed? Or do crowd control conditions need a buff?

1. Improve targeting system

Kas,

I know the Ranger profession in and out. I have cheerleadered how good this profession has been for months. When this game came out 1 year ago I spent the first month as a Mesmer and switched to the Ranger and never looked back. I know Rangers are ok in PvE but for me the PvE content is a joke and sometimes the player quality as well. In spvp/tpvp, the whole condition meta and lack of different maps styles just turns me off.

In WvW, the last place of fun in this game now the current hardcore meta is only Guardians, Elementalists, Warriors, Necromancers and Mesmers. There is no place for this profession in the eyes of the community because of lackluster and redundancy the Ranger skills have compared to the other professions above and yes our pet mechanic are worthless in that environment. What happens when Anet start to adding larger group oriented PvE content? Guild leaders will start analyzing each professions contributions to the group, and they will come to the same conclusions the WvW community has.

mistsim.2748:

this is a bug. at least MT affecting only 3 targets, couldnt care about other stuff really. but out of all the profs OP in wvw, ure gonna punish the gimpest prof with the least aoe damage and least utility in the game?

Yup, its our pets being so over power in WvW. My Moa took out a entire zerg with one peck from his beck.

Anyway,
/bumping

The current state of the Ranger is sad. It has no place in this game IMHO. You don’t need them for dungeons, you don’t need them in WvW. In Spvp you have only Spirits, a laughing stock because of how easy it is to play with all of the passive abilities and RNG abilities the spirits do once they die. Soon players will learn how do deal with them and we ll have nothing again. It is time for Anet to have a serious discussion about this profession before GW2 player base completely shun the profession as useless.

This is getting to the point where I want to stop supporting this game with my money if there are no concrete improvements with this profession in the near future. I am sick of being seen by other players in this game as 3 class profession because of the lack of caring I feel the ANet dev’s towards this class. Anet designs a profession around pets but the pets are more useless then helpful. Its been over a year now and there has only been minor to little improvements to the pet mechanic. I feel Anet rather focus on balancing this game around only Guardians, Elementalists, Warrriors and Necromancers and basically have left us to rot in the land of mediocrity and soon will be just a laughing stock of this game because the Ranger’s pet mechanic is just awful.

Read the boards!! Rangers are not happy!!!

Fix our F2 abilities and pet mechanics.
Fix the current bugs to our weapons, pets and utility skills
Where is this trait overhaul this profession desperately needs
Add more tooltips to skills abilities so we don’t get the wrong idea

This lack of communication is getting to the point that if you plan on surprising us with a profession overhaul stay something. Give us some hope that you understand the issues with this profession and that there are measures being take to improve the Ranger. It is going to a point I rather not play this game and I am looking to others when I have been a loyal support of this game since head start.

Thank you

Hax.8701:

I really like the idea of pressing f2 where your mouse is. This has nothing to do with WvW but yesterday I was playing PvP and needed to fear a thief constantly going into stealth. My wolf would NOT howl for the life of him because he targeted the thief and ran to get near him before howling, then the thief went back into stealth so the wolf was confused and would never howl. In order to howl correctly I would need to take my target off the thief, press f2, then try to tab target back to him while he has Thieves Guild out. It’s a frustrating process and ground targeting f2 skills would be the most amazing thing and make f2 skills more viable and worth it.

Yes, not having ground targeting is exactly what is wrong with the current F2 functionality for all of the pets that have AoE abilities. This has to be the easiest way to improve the F2 ATM and I can’t believe ANet being around the bush about this. Our pets are our core mechanic but at the same time the poor functionality is holding the profession back IMHO.

One of the most rational fixes to the F2 abilities is to introduce AoE cursors to the following pet F2 abilities:

All Canine F2 abilities
All Bear F2 abilities
All Moa F2 abilities
Carrion and Whiptail Devourer F2 abilities
Reef, Ice, Marsh, Salamander Drake F2 abilities
Jungles Stalker F2 ability

Rangers need to have more control of these abilities so they can cast their group boons, Crowd Controls, Damage AoE and fields to the PROPER LOCATION AND NOT HAVE TO GUESS OR PRAY! (the AoE cursor should work just like Guard but the pet will return to the Ranger after the skill goes off/attack when commanded by the Ranger)

After that, all pets need a form of passive stabiliy/condition removal/Speed increase (sprint) mechanic that will allow the pet to get to that targeted area promtly to cast thier F2 (traited or baseline)

Lower the cast times on most pet F2.

Large/Flashy pet name plates so we know where the pet is among the clutter of nameplates

Voice emote from the Ranger when the pet is getting low on health (25-30% health)

Fixing the targeting system in this game is a most.

Funny thing is, they will nerf spirits but not fix the targeting system that would make fighting Spirit Rangers easier and improve the use of our pet’s F2 skills.

Dasboba.1652:

There would have to be a total rework of many game mechanics for something like this, and I can’t see that happening.

Honestly, the Guardian mechanics such as “Stand your Ground” and Massive condi removal, 4 sec blast finisher, dodge healing, support skills like this need to be distributed to the other professions equally or buff mechanics that counter stability, field blasting and condition removal spamming.

Zerg busting meta involve the following Professions

20 man group

8 Hammer/Staff(or Greatsword) Guardians
2 or 3 shouts (Superior Rune of the Soldier)
Main traits: Pure of Voice, Indomitable Courage, Absolute Resolution, Selfless Daring
Purpose: 2 Stabilities to group players, main might booner, Main water field blaster and healer (by rolling), Main condition cleanser (Shouts, virtues, light field finishers), minor crowd control, additional group DPS (with retaliation).

5 Staff Elementalists
Water, Fire, Static Field
Main Traits: Evasive Arcana, Cleansing Water, Blasting Staff
Purpose: Main Field provider, Crowd Control (Static and Earth skills), cleansing with water fields and dodging, secondary AoE DPS

3 Hammer/Sword/Warhorn Warriors
2 shouts (Superior Rune of the Soldier)
Main Traits: Inspiring Banner
Purpose: Main rezzer with Battle Standard, Secondary shout condition cleanser, minor booner (Fury), secondary field blaster, minor crowd control, DPS

3 Staff/Plague Form Necromancers
Dark fields (wells)
Main Traits: ? (don’t play this Profession)
Purpose: Main AoE DPS (condition spammer but builds and gear are all power base) , secondary Crowd Control (2 Marks and Plagueform) Damage mitigation with Dark Field blasts

1 Mesmer
Veil, Null field, portal
Main Traits: Glamour Mastery
Purpose: Veil or Portal group

No Rangers, no Engineers or no Thieves because they don’t contribute to the cause. Its sad but true.

GvG is just a side show. It has only gain in popularity do to the lack of effort Anet has put into pvp in this game. Look at Bollaball. People would rather play a soccer match in WvW than play WvW itself. GvG started because smaller guilds wanted to shoot the fair one with larger guilds.

I helped wipe groups twice our sized with a Ranger trap builds before most NA guilds started to embrace the GvG meta.

Where is the direction going?

From a WvW prospective, I don’t see the zerg meta changing anytime soon. All the current professions need a revamp/overhaul in order to strive in the current meta. Basically, all a zerg of (20+) needs is : Guardians, Warriors, and Elementalists for everything: Healing, Condition remove, blaster finish, provide all fields, massive boons generation, crowd control and Battle resurrection. Even though professions like Mesmers and Necros have a nitch in some group metas, they are not fully required to optimize a group of 20 or 40 players. Let’s not talk about the zerging roles of Rangers, Engineers and Thieves (They have no role because Guardians, Warriors and Elementalists do it better) This is making me loath WvW to the point I don’t want to play because its Hammer Guardian or be ridiculed for not helping the group optimize itself.

Even with the return of the borderland buffs through the introduction of the 5 capture points; does Anet think hardcore guilds are going break their current meta without changes to the professions itself? Right now the current WvW meta is stale, boring, skills, lifeless, elitist and just awful Look at GvG. It’s an awful abuse of profession support mechanics vs a group abusing the same support mechanics. I really hope Anet has this in mind when they start overhauling the current professions.

SPvp
I really wanted to see spvp and tpvp strive but do to the mediocre balance changes and no new game modes, spvp/tpvp has turned into a AoE spam/passive ability kitten parade. I feel the meta only benefits the players that will only play optimized profession builds rather than skill.

The reason I need to post this is because I am extremely frustrated by the lack of communication seen by Anet in the last few months. I am starting to lose confidences that Anet has a handle on the current issues that plague this game ATM.

Full trap builds work in zerg vs zerg when you have support around you. I would never go full traps unless I had guardians next to me. Yet if you want to test yourself, run a full trap build with not stun breaks. (Its not that easy) and you have to rely on your GS and passive traits in order to survive.

My main trap build is like this: (do tweak it a lot gear wise)

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-F;4wEky-d2cEF-0;9;49TJ9-3;037A59-5;3_-F8W;16TsW6TsWTNlW0-NW90;1XVaWfXk2r3x_9g0Q-6k0Agk1Ag;9;9;9;9;9;54-6p

No full traps. I have little issue with this build other than relying on guardians for SyG

GvG IMHO are a sideshow and a joke. Hammer trains/Staff Elementalists have dominated the WvW meta for a year now and frankly I am tired of it. I don’t have a soft spot for GvG because it optimizes the flawed support mechanics ANet gave exclusively to Guardians, Warriors and Elementalists.

With that said, this game desperately needs variety in WvW in order to survive. Running a Hammer/Shout Guardian everyday brings me one step closer to reinstalling WoW or Rift.

mistsim.2748:

-65% condi duration + unlimited condi clears in an organized zerg ball > traps (or anything the ranger has to offer)

the reason i go with only muddy terrain and entangle is that they have the longest lasting immobilizes, and this way you can spec into survivability instead of traps. dog f2 + MT + entangle follow up by wolf f2 = 3 long immobilizes and aoe fear. you dont need anything more.

and u cant tell me youre diving all the way to the backline with no survivability utilities equipped.

and yes, the MT bug right now is killing my build.

The best way to learn how to zerg is not to rely one Superior Runes of Melandru, Lemongrass poultry soup and stability. Learning how to maneuver around and through the enemy zergs is without aid from the above is very important. Zergs/players rely heavily on these passive abilities through food buffs, runes and traits to pain-train around.

One of the only ways to fight these pain-trains in the current meta is a combination of both hard and soft CC, condition spamming and timed damage spikes once the enemy zerg are in a bad position or rallied in a bad position. If I ran a trap spec, I tend to use RoA over entangle. Yet if I am running with a shout guardians (which is never an issue) I just rely on SyG for stability and use entangle to stop retreats or timed with 2 other Rangers in the back lines that fall behind the zerg. (it does happen)

Even with -65 condi duration doesn’t mean they back-line or going to move freely through a spam of coordinated soft CC into hard CC. With this issue of Muddy Terrain, I just feel traps have more to offer vs the zergs ATM until they fix it.

mistsim.2748:

incorrect, rangers cant bunker more than 2-3 competent players. once ure past this threshold, the regen ranger crumples.

As a trap ranger I still go full P/V/T or Sentinel (if I could afford it) can take some good damage without regen. The signet zerg build we showcase are more forgiving because of the 48 sec stability and 64 sec damage immunity; whereas, Traps need to be play more cautiously. Traps are more about timing, positioning and the Ranger’s knowledge of survival mechanics.

mistsim.2748:

traps are not essential, theyre terrible. the only decent one is spike trap for its utility, and it only gives a 1s immobilize. frost trap chills, which is just a soft CC. it does nothing to stop a zerg. entangle and muddy terrain are basically better versions of this. if you spec for trap bombing, u have no survivability and u cant zerg dive. u have to throw them from 600 range which is virtually melee range and u have to waste 30 points speccing into them. MT is spammable every 20s, and u can do it from 900 range. and my build has on-demand stability.

as i said, my build isnt small times. i min/maxed it for zerg play. there are tons of small group roaming builds out there. i also explained in the guide how exactly to utilize Entangle. the only problem right now is muddy terrain isnt affecting 5 targets as it’s supposed to, and it’s driving me nuts.

I understand the whole Muddy Terrain issue is forcing me not to play the signet build because 3 max targets on Muddy Terrain is appalling. Quite honestly, I am thinking of switching muddy terrain for Frost trap or Spike trap until Anet fixes or confirms that muddy terrain only affects 3 players.

Yet, I think traps are very good in zerg warfare if you understand enemy zerg movements. Even with the 600 throwing range, once the Ranger avoids the head of a zerg ball, the back-line tends to be exposed and that is the moment CC traps can be most effective. One of the best ways to learn how to fight a zerg is not to rely one stability from your skills but to leech off Guardians SyG or learn how to dodge the head of the zerg. In my trap builds, I tend to stay with a guardian to get SyG to move through the enemy zergs or use RaO if I feel that I am not getting SyG enough.

CRrabbit.1284:

Yes, rangers can do these.
However, an Engi/Necro or even a mesmer can do the same or even better with much safer/more efficient ways.

Engineers tend to be unwelcome to the current WvW open field meta yet Rangers are one of the best bunker professions in this game and will out live Necromancers, Mesmers, Elementalists in the frontlines if played and built right.

Boomstin.3460:

No condition will stick to any organized groups much longer than a second or 2, everything will get cleansed way faster than anyone can apply them, or worse yet converted to boons. So you are actually hurting your own chances and buffing your enemy.
Sure traps can be somewhat effective to tag some mindless zerglings on eb and they sure are quite handy in small scale warfare.
I like that you try to find positive sides from the current situation but please stop spreading misinformation. It’s not helping anyone.

LOL misinformation. Traps have been good vs organized and mindless zergs. All necro’s do is spam marks and wells in power builds and use the CC condition to them. Frost trap and Spike Trap and Muddy Terrain are great CCs and they stay on the ground for some time and if they are placed right, you are going to start picking off players that can’t provide stability or cleansing on there own. 1 Trap ranger vs an organized zerg is not going to get noticed but when was the last time you seen a group of trap rangers in a zerg. Quite honestly condition removal and stability tend to run dry during a zerg fight and that is the opportunity to start focusing on this soft CCing.

Although I would like to be part of the meta that is standard in our WvW community but thinking outside of the box is hard when players can’t see past the meta they created.

Trap builds are very effective. If a group of 5 Trap Rangers telegraph their traps properly, they can really slow down the support line (backline) for your main zerg to finish them off. Without a backline, the enemy zerg will lose its healing, AoE DPS and hand CCs and will most likely wipe or retreat.

I laugh at the current zerging meta because its just 20 players keeping your commander alive spamming AoE by Ele’s and Necros or praying your melee train kills something. This simplistic meta will end but I hope the new one will involve Rangers more.

I am a WvWer mainly and I think 20v20 GvG is a sideshow and the current meta is a joke. The current GvG meta can be emulated in 10v10 easily:

Current 20 vs 20 GvG meta:

10 frontline:

6/7 Guardians (Cleansing, buffing, blast healing)
3/4 Warriors (War Banner, some buffing and blast healing)

Backline:

4/5 Elementalists (Water/Fire field passive cleansing with traited water fields, CC)
4/5 Necromancers (AoE spamming,some CC, plague form)
1 Mesmer (veil, nuff field, portal if group is acting risky)
1 (wildcard) Sniper, D/D Elementalist for aura and blasts or 1 of the other prefered profession

Remove the Wildcard Profession, keep the Mesmer and divide the cookie cutter professions by 2 and there you have it a 10v10 version of GvG.

I respect that guilds want an even 20v20 deathmatch rather than testing their guilds skills vs 2 or 3 times their number but these GvG detrails the follow to WvW and just kitten off a lot of players in the end. I never played GW1 but 20v20 GvG is just like Wow Arenas IMHO.

mistsim.2748:

added the frontliner immobilize bomber build above have a look.

I see a lot of hidden potential in that build. I tried coming up with a BM immobilize trap version but I haven’t fully tested it yet.

mistsim.2748:

It’s a hybrid prof and it really needs to be seen that way.

This is how I always seen this profession and the reason I love it.

mistsim.2748:

Pvt/sent seems to fit well with gs and immobilize bombing. But your contribution becomes kinda meh due to low dps and minimal hard cc. If you could spam more aoe vuln with the gs it would give the ranger a LEGIT frontline role.

In your video its just you doing the aoe vuln now just imagine 3 or 4 Rangers timing WD at the same time to a CCed zerg ball.

Kasama.8941:

At this point, it doesn’t matter what ArenaNet does with the Ranger, people will just keep saying it’s a bad profession.

I agree, until we can prove ourselves at least….

Chopps.5047:

Just look at everything we deal with: everything is undervalued until they (every other profession’s main’s) can claim it’s OP and nerf us to “our place as huntards”.

We need to stop letting others in the community push us around. Start standing up for your profession. If your friend is truly the best ranger around, then he or she should know enough to defend the profession. It’s time to stand up for rangers; to learn how to properly play them. To see the strengths instead of the weaknesses.

I agree a 100%.

The word OPTIMAL needs to be change to EASY and soon everyone will understand the current WvW and GvG meta.

Its optimal to play a shout Guardain
to
Its easy to play a shout Guardian

The GvG meta that is spilling into the WvW meta is stale and boring.

(Optimal or Easy) 20 man GvG meta

Frontliners 10
6 Guardians (Shouts, Consercration, Hammer 2, It does everything)
4 Warriors (Shouts, Warbanner, Hammer F1)

Backliners 10
4 Nercomancers (Marks)
4/5 Elemenalists (Fields)
1 Mesmer (veil and null field)
1 (Wildcard) Sniper, Additional Guardian. Necro, D/D Elementalist

Simplistic, stale and boring. That is optimal in my book or basically easy.

+1 thread

I run this similar build in Tier 1 vs 60+ JQ and BG mega-blobs all the time and it is so much fun.

I explained this build from my anook blog a month ago: http://www.anook.com/topic/1763

and I have been running the Signet of the Beastmaster build before the signet revamp.

In the current meta where stacking Guardians, Necros, and Elementalist is the norm, Ranger have great potential with proper trait and pet revamps.

Mistsim, this is a great thread, you explain the build a lot better that I can.

The second they buff entangle to be harder to escape from, will be the day every profession complains about it all at once. The only thing I can see Anet doing is reducing the CD by 30 to 45 seconds or increasing the Immobilize by a second and fixing current bugs.

Castaliea.3156:

AydenStar.4216:

-snipper for length-

In conclusion, I do support changes to our pet/F2 function to make them more practical to use in zerging and a realistic overhaul to our traits, but I don’t want the play style to change much. I feel Rangers are in a good spot compared to other professions that still need love as well. I just want players to understand that Rangers can be a difficult profession to play in WvW zerging which is why I feel there is a lot of negativity towards the profession as a whole. Rangers have to work a little harder to get things done; whereas, other professions have it a lot easier with the same or more reward but in the end.

(Also note for Humans: Reaper of Grenth can be amazing if you’re looking for an alternative to Entangle)

But to get to the point…
As much as I like this post as a fellow Ranger you ignored our profession mechanic when talking about what you can bring for a group. How does that look to everyone else? Not good. It just isn’t suited for large group play like that. We no doubt have some handy soft CC utility skills but that’s only a small portion of what any other profession can bring.
We really don’t have a good selection of weapons for large battles. GS is okay but even that is just #1/2 spam. Axe and Sword both aren’t exactly the ideal form of a weapon when running through a blob either yet we have some awesome Off-Hand weapon skills that almost force us into using them. In addition to this we don’t really bring a unique profession mechanic to the fight as you said. So yes, it works and can be effective but that’s no reason to settle for mediocrity. There is a lot we can improve on. We shouldn’t just sit there and settle for 2 sources of Immobilize on long cool downs and an elite.

This is the only time I am going to respond to you, the Ranger profession mechanics are not the only class with this issue. Thieves and Engineers don’t have this dominate profession mechanics to bring to the group as well yet Ranger are in a better place then them. We have good abilities we bring to the table but yes they are lackluster compared to others. Anet is not going to change the Ranger over night and crying about it on the forums everyday is not going to make them do it faster. I am Sorry

mistsim.2748:

Entangle is however more effective when not used as an opener, but after the enemy has spent all endurance and blown defensive CD’s.

This.

I love playing a Ranger in WvW and have for a long time. I have an 80 Mesmer and Guardian and I would choose the Ranger any day of the week before those 2 professions. The Ranger’s pets and F-function keys are an issue in zergs but it hasn’t stopped me from enjoying the profession. I run with one of the best tier 1 guilds on SoR and I have not had a problem fitting in as a back-up water field and Crowd Controller. The Ranger might not be the best at anything but they do bring a lot of unnoticed utilities to both small and large groups. Muddy Terrain, Entangle and Spike trap are the best group crowd control abilities to counter stability stacking, also the Ranger is one of the top 3 bunkering professions in the game (I think # 2 before Guardians), our pets die quickly, but they do provide group buffs and utility to the group if micro managed properly, increase the groups damage with Spotter (+7% crit) trait and Frost Spirits aura (10% damage if you want to be a walking buff) and Rangers can easily go from zerging to Havoc to Roaming/Scouting with not major changing of traits or switch of their weapons.

One of the biggest problems I encounter with the Ranger is the learning curve in WvW. It’s easy to run a spirit build in Tpvp and pew-pew to victory but in zerg warfare on a tier 1 competitive level, it is a different story. Building the Ranger for that environment wasn’t an easy task for me and not a play style for everyone (especially the Legolas wannabes). In zergs, Rangers only make good bunkers because their shortbow and longbow skills are mainly for single target damage and have no piercing attacks without 20 points in Marksman making the bows lackluster in zergs compared to weapons such as: the Greatsword, main and off Axe, Warhorn and even the Torch. The longbow might have Barrage but for a 30/25 sec CD with only ok AoE damage and a decent cripple, I think the Axe is a better choose because the axe is a better mobile AoE weapon with Ricochet. Casting Barrage on your longbow can cost the Ranger dearly if the Ranger channels the skill at the wrong time. Ranger’s whirling defense is so underrated because it’s a 5 second reflection skill on a 25/20 second CD which is great to counter projectiles especially from Omega Siege Gollums. Also it’s a whirl finisher which is good to use while stacking with your group during a battle because it’s protecting players from enemy projectiles and shooting off bolts with healing, cleansing or condition buffing depending of the field.

When I started playing a Ranger in WvW zerging around November 2012, I used a hybrid P/V/T-Condition armor/trinket Trap builds which work well when used on back-line professions and on downed state players but didn’t work well with front-line professions because of the constant condition removal. Then I switched to a more CC based trap build with Spike Trap, Muddy Terrain and Entangle with the GS and Axe/Warhorn and realized the Ranger’s nitch. This soon got over shadowed by the Elementalist’s Static Field but once groups realized that stability was the best counter to it, Statics fields aren’t as strong was they were in the past yet Muddy Terrain is a good combination to use with Static Fields or other CCs as well. Using your Healing Spring as a group water field is tricky. We rely on Healing Spring as our main healing skills so it becomes situational but if you are a good zergling and stay with the group all the time, you should never have to use it on yourself but there are times you just have too.

In conclusion, I do support changes to our pet/F2 function to make them more practical to use in zerging and a realistic overhaul to our traits, but I don’t want the play style to change much. I feel Rangers are in a good spot compared to other professions that still need love as well. I just want players to understand that Rangers can be a difficult profession to play in WvW zerging which is why I feel there is a lot of negativity towards the profession as a whole. Rangers have to work a little harder to get things done; whereas, other professions have it a lot easier with the same or more reward but in the end.

As a zerging Ranger, we are more viable than players think and very underestimate with what we do bring to a group. Our major problem comes from two professions: Guardian and Elementalists. Because these two professions bring all you need to a group, it makes our support look lackluster in comparison which it isn’t.

One thing I never see from enemy zergs is the use of Muddy Terrian, Entange and Spike Trap, These skills if done by more them 1 Ranger (at less 3 Rangers) in a coordinated effort with the other profession’s CC is just the icing on the cake to wiping large groups. The builds I run can be found on my Anook blog (signature below) and they work great.

IMHO, the best way to improve Rangers in group/zergs is by overhauling our current traits and allow some passives such as Companions Defense, Furious Grip, Beastmater’s Might or even Nature Healing or Signets of the Beastmaster to affect the players around them.

Also, I think weapons like the Greatsword needs a blast finisher. I am for removing the leap finisher on Swoop in exchange for a blast finisher on Maul. By switching the effects of these skills will allow Rangers to blast a little less often as a Guardian’s Hammer 2 but at the same time not abuse finishing on Healing Spring if we still had leap finisher on Swoop.

Chopps I absolutely agree. The biggest problems with our pets is we have no idea what is killing them off. Sadly, being a micromanaging profession, we are not given the tools to keep tabs on our pets debuffs.

Also, if this a quality of life thread, we should also have visible timers of our pets AI abilities. I am for introducing a F3 function for our pets secondary abilities but if that doesn’t happen, I think having timers of the pet’s AI abilities would help as well.

Tricare.2946:

Guardians have shouts that give buffs, we can too with traits. Regen and swiftness, permanently. Not nearly as strong, but still there. You can’t compare how classes work, guardians have stuff that we don’t have, but we have stuff they don’t.

Edit: oh and I forgot, making maul a blast finisher wouldn’t do anything to help team support really. If you are being a team player, you would have warhorn on, which is a blast finisher and awesome boons. And, if you’re using warhorn your weapon swap shouldn’t be to GS because that’s just a kittenty weapon anyways.

Nature’s Voice was a band-aid ANet put to fix a broken leg IMO. I have tried Guard spamming with Nature’s Voice and its not work. Perma Regen and Swiftness is nothing special. All professions can provide these buffs themselves and don’t need the Ranger for this. The funny thing is, the only good use of Guard spamming with Nature’s Voice is to moving a dolyak from the supply camp into a keep better than any other class can.

I compared spirits to Guardian shouts because comparing Ranger shouts to Guardian shouts is similar to comparing apples to oranges. Ranger are so lackluster in the eyes of players because most of our support is inward and not outward towards the group. Also, another reason why I compare Ranger’s to Guardians is because Guardians are always super stacked(WvW)/needed in most game modes compared to the other professions.

Tricare.2946:

AydenStar.4216:

Spirits bro that’s your passive support

LOL, I know Spirits are the FoTM in sPvP but when I talk about passive I mean through traits.

Think about this:

A Ranger spirit uses one utility slot for one passive abilities when players hit an enemy, has a unreliable active ability on 20 seconds to 60 second CD with a long cast animation and can be killed.
vs
Guardian shout: one utility slot, gives the players around them more them one buff, removes conditions, brakes stuns (two of them) and are on CD from 25 seconds to 60 seconds.

Prysin.8542:

Rangers has 1(2*) AOE heal, 2(3*) AOE regen, and a leap + blast finisher-in-one weapon combo. Giving them an instant 2.6k extra healing.

*Applied by pets

we have crowd control through pets, weapons (LB, SB, GS, Spear) and Elite.

We have passive traits that only work for ourselves, but gives us massive healing.

We have even MORE condition removal then guardians, if you bother to spec for it.

Those are a lot of our inward abilities that only effect us and our pet. The Guardian skills I list above are all team oriented.

This Guardian video above is the standard WvW zerg build. In the begin of the video, he basically goes over the gambit of the support the Guardian dishes out. I have a Guardian for this reason as well.

I love WvW on my Ranger but we need more team oriented tools and group oriented passive support.

Edit: the person’s video above also has Ranger videos as well.

@ Chopps

Guardians might not have a water field bit do Rangers have:
2 or possible 3 AoE heals, a Crowd Control and give there group 12 stacks of might all in one weapon?

or

Have many passive traits that heal the players around them?

or

Endless condition removal?

I can keep going but I ll stop here

Honestly, the Ranger as it stands brings nothing to the table and that is my concern.

Healing Spring is a situational healing; you use it to heal yourself, you could screw the group, but if u use it to heal your group you might screw yourself. Compare to the 2 Elementalists staff water fields HS is just an OK and not reliable in groups.

If you are using Longbow and GS in a group situation what do the 2 weapons bring to the table in a group?

Trap fields are situational and unreliable to count as solid combo fields and the Ranger has to stand in the field to get if off.

Like i said in my last post I would trade swoop on GS 3 for a Blast on Maul would be a reasonably switch to test. Swoop leap finisher only heals yourself which is kinda selfish. We need some that stands out nothing: most of our group abilities are lackluster and not worth it.

Edit: I’m typing this on a bus and it hit a bump and I hit post :’(

Raven.9603:

AydenStar.4216:

At this moment in time, I am unsure the direction ANet has for the Ranger in the upcoming patches but I would like to express my views of introducing a Blast Finisher on Maul.

im all for making maul a blast finisher, but I think your appeal is largely groundless. the only way you are going to see rangers welcome in hardcore wvw zergs is by nerfing other classes or changing spirit functionality.

hardcore wvw is composed of “Save Yourself” stacking through guardians, might stacking in an ele’s fire field, then running through the other blob like a bunch of trained seals with down syndrome. stop, stack, blast, balance this ball on your nose, repeat until your commander begrudgingly approves of the performance and attributes the success to his “leadership.” congratulations, you’re a red guard now.

rangers having another blast finisher doesn’t make them more needed, because the blasters are already in the zerg. rangers can just drop the spring and shut up for all the commander cares.

inevitable wow comparison: the only way wow was ever able to achieve balanced raid compositions was by making buffs class and spec specific. wvw is the raiding environment of GW2 (eat it carebears), yet 1 class brings everything but combos and veil.

if ranger spirits were changed to auras that radiated from the ranger (and likewise, the on demand effects did also), that would give the ranger far more of a place in hardcore wvw than a maul finisher.

Trust me, I am upset that ANet gave all the utility and team synergy too Guardians and Elementalists. It makes WvW so one side. I feel adding the Blast Finisher on Maul could help the profession have more of a purpose in group play and have player debate either to bring a Guardian or a Ranger.

I have argued for Ranger’s Spirits to be a radius buff coming directly from the Ranger but they likely hood of that is propably 0.

I understand adding a Blast Finisher to Maul with the leap finisher on Swoop would be a bit OP but I would trade the leap finisher on Swoop for a Blast Finisher on Maul any day of the week.

My issue with the Ranger is the lack of team synergy out of spvp. Rangers can live without the leap finisher on Swoop, need the Blast Finisher on Maul to be more of a team player.

Adding more damage to the GS could help the profession out in the short term but if ANet finally overhaul the pets and F2 mechanics, the GS will be OP for sure.

Also, trading the leap finisher on Swoop for a Blast Finisher on Maul would give us a way to heal our pets outside of BM traits or our healing skills.

Whirling Axe does not block projectiles. That is probably the reason why its stationary.

“To move, or not to move.” That is the question I have for this thread.

I was wondering how people feel about Barrage and Whirling Defense being stationary abilities.

From a WvW zerging point of view, the longbow is a terrible weapon in the open field because the only AoE (Barrage) is a 2 1/2 second stationary/channeled ability that does not come close to the damage potential of other profession’s stationary/channeled abilities and also puts the Ranger in harms way most of the time when casting this ability.

Whirling Defense on the other hand might be a bit OP if Ranger’s were able to run around with this skill yet it could open a door to a new meta that could give Ranger’s a unique nitch in WvW zerg strategizing if used properly?

What do you all thing?

Leuca.5732:

Blast finisher on Maul would give too much synergy with Healing Spring and other fields, even if its recharge was increased. They would have to adjust Swoop and Crippling throw, which would probably end up nerfing GS damage in the long run, and it already does pathetic damage comparatively. What GS needs is a revamp on basic fluidity and speed, with possible additions to pet synergy and perhaps a tad more damage.

I understand that a Blast Finisher on Maul would increase the synergy of the Healing Spring water field but Elementalists already have this healing synergy.

If they made Maul a Blast Finisher, it is common sense to nerf Healing Spring’s water field to 10 or 12 secs or increase the CD of Maul by 2 to 4 seconds

Cripple throw is just a joke for healing because its a projectile finisher which only gives regen and we have tons of that.

Swoop is a gamble and situational. If you have a target locked in the water field, you could potentially get 2 leap finishers off but if you lose your target or have no target, you are going to swoop out of the water field and it will take a few seconds to get back into it resulting in less finishers done to the water field.

I am for Anet to give a Blast Finisher on Maul and if that means nerfing Healing Spring and/or increasing the CD on Maul, I am for that because we desperately need a team oriented skill on the GS and a Blast Finisher on Maul is just perfect for that.

At this moment in time, I am unsure the direction ANet has for the Ranger in the upcoming patches but I would like to express my views of introducing a Blast Finisher on Maul.

As a hardcare WvWer, Rangers tend not to have a spot in most hardcore guild Metas because of the lack of team support they provide compared to other profession. Although I have been debuting to these egotistical commanders everyday about what Ranger bring to the group, they do have a point because many of the Ranger skills and traits are more inward towards the Ranger and it’s pets rather than to the other players around the Ranger.

I have spent months theory crafting Ranger WvW builds that focus on team support and there are only a few builds that work well but these builds are not game breaking compared to the skills and traits Guardians and Elementalists bring as team support. 8 months of hardcore WvWing on a Ranger, the Greatsword has been my main weapon. With all the great additions and revamps ANet has made to this weapon has helped out a lot but adding the Blast Finisher on Maul would make this weapon complete. I can care less about damage but having a Blast Finisher on Maul will end the debates about Ranger’s viability in group play. By having this tool on the Ranger, it will be an excellent addition to the other team oriented skills the Rangers has and allow this profession to be welcomed into the WvW hardcore team meta. Futhermore, this will help but not end the super stacking of Guardians as a core zerging meta which plagues WvW at the moment.

Finally, by having a Blast Finisher on Maul, could improve the survivability of our pets which is another issue for another day

A lot of us in the Ranger community have been waiting patiently for ANet to start improving our pet’s AI, survivability, cast time reductions on F2 skills, compensation skill(s) after pet’s death, cleaving attacks and pet revival time reduction, so on.

The pet is our profession’s gimmick which works against us more than benefits us. Every other professions F-key skills work fine but the Ranger has to wait for the pet to get in range—then wait for the pet to cast the ability and by then I have swooped or ran away because that F2 skill told 10 years to cast. Futhermore, we have no F2 skills when the pet dies. Our pets are a joke. A seasoned players will focus our pets first because of the HUGE advantage they will have after that.

Also, this game is all about AoE in PvE, s&tPvP and WvW and not introducing a pet mechanic to evade, reduce damage from AoE or non-trait health regen is hurting us badly as well.

In tpvp we have one broken build which will be fixed first I bet but in WvW and in PvE the profession is seen as a joke because of the lack of effort towards fixing our professions main mechanic.

Redneck.4765:

Have mainly been zerging but that gets kinda old after awhile so occasionally help smaller groups defend towers. I have plenty of damage with the build but figured with the high toughness it wouldn’t feel just as squishy as when wearing full zerker. Oh and for weapons have been running s/axe and then switching between longbow or shortbow depending on the situation.

For huge zergs that are made up with 40 players plus, I use this spec most of the time:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-F;4wEVx-e2kDF-0;9F3I;1TJJ;036A38-56;5_VH8-NV06TsW6TsWGokKN435-V_u7XVaWfXk2r3x_97WAN-5V8;0V5P;1kc1;9;9;9;9;9-4k3T

I use the signet for defensive purposes mainly. Signet of Stone is great when you are in a bad situation you need to get out of. Signet of the Wild is for stability when you need it.

Also, Greatsword 1 evade, Swoop and Counter Attack are great defensive tool to use as well.

Redneck.4765:

Running a 20/30/20 build with full knights gear other then jewels which are mix of valk, sitting at a bit over 3k toughness and still drop like a rock in anybody gets near me and yes theres dodging and doing what I can to get away but still doesn’t seem to do much good. Is this normal for the amount of toughness? I mean I know medium armor ain’t going to tank a zerg but 1v1 figured could hold off being stomped.

I am not sure if you are talking about Roaming or Zerging?

TBH, power builds are ok for roaming but not as good as Regen BM builds.

For Zerging: I would switch your armor to Soldiers and invest in Super Runes of Melandru. In Zergs having around 20k+ health will help with your survivability.

The build below is something I would run solo with a zerg but I use axe/axe over longbow most of the time

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-F;4wEky-d2NEF-0;9k3G;1JTJ;007-39709;5L-F8;26TsW6TsWGoF-1-55;3XVaWfXk2r3x_97WAN-5V8;0V5P;1kc1;9;9;9;9;9-4k3f