Guild Wars 2

We’ve had hundreds of years of hetereosexual pairings prominently featured in literature, and decades of the same featured in radio, film and television. The fact that we have a few(!) gay and lesbian pairings in this game should be a source of praise, not complaint.

Even if the homosexual pairings are getting a bit more attention than the heterosexual ones, I don’t see what the big deal is. Let gay people have their time in the spotlight for once. Love is love wherever it can be found.

Whatever it is, it isn’t going to save this train wreck of a story, no matter how flashy or impressive it looks.

I’ll just be glad when Scarlet is gone and this awful plot has come to an end.

Vol.7601:

I think every player should be reading patch notes. There is simply no way to fit every single detail in game without cluttering or confusing.

They could fit in the details. All it would take is a few NPC’s, better audio cues, or map icons that explained things. There are dozens of ways they could do it, but they simply choose not to. And since they are choosing not to, perhaps the content they release should be simpler or easier to understand. It shouldn’t be the players’ responsibility to pick up the slack for the developers’ negligence in design.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: They ought to be paying Dulfy and those other sites for explaining their game for them.

Icealen.3802:

When you see a zerg in Guild Wars, it truly is impressive to watch and experience. It’s like one second you’re fighting single monsters by yourself and suddenly this HUGE wave of people come (and I mean HUGE) and help you kill what you were trying to kill by yourself and basically destroy everything in their path. It’s like one huge giant ant army killing everything in its path.

I love it! It’s glorious! Unstoppable! I feel mighty!

It definitely makes me feel part of the group in accomplishing something.

I feel exactly the opposite. A zerg rolls in and suddenly I feel like a faceless number among hundreds. My contribution becomes diluted and meaningless. I don’t even have to use different skills or tactics of any kind, I just have to spam #1.

Naevius.3185:

A noble, self-sacrificing death, mano-a-mano with a dragon.

Forever immortalized in a huge statue in New Lion’s Arch, with the words ‘Never Forget!’

The people of Lion’s Arch would have to be braindead to do this. Keep in mind that while Scarlet has been supposedly controlled by this thing the whole time, she’s also enjoyed the killing and maiming and the havoc she’s caused. She’s no hero.

Immortalizing and honoring her would be an insult to everyone she’s killed.

Just confirmed this. The Lionguard Havens’ NPC’s are acting like everything is hunky dory in Lion’s Arch. Apparently nobody got around to telling them.

I attached a screen.

chemiclord.3978:

GW2 is about open world content, not instanced, and that was a decision they made very quickly upon release.

If that was entirely true, why would they bother putting in personal story instances? Or dungeon instances? Living Story instances? sPVP? Activities? There’s been plenty of instanced content and it works well. Not everything is open world and that is a good thing.

I’m not against them having open world content in their releases from time to time, but the OP has a point – pretty much all of their releases since the summer have favored open world (zerg-required) content. Casual players, small groups and people with low-end pc’s are being left out.

It’s from the horrible frames per second you get when running with a large zerg in an area that is not properly optimized.

My PC usually runs the game between 60-90 FPS, but fighting in Lion’s Arch gives me 18 FPS if I’m lucky. This really shouldn’t be.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

The issue I have is that there is very little left of the original game for continuity’s sake, and it seems that the game is no longer about the player on an individual level…

To be fair, the game IS set two hundred years after the first game. A lot of stuff can happen in-between. The way the game was at launch seemed to fit the lore just fine.

With that said, though, I do agree with your sentiments about how the Living Story is ruining the game. I would be fine with them destroying Lion’s Arch if it was part of a story that made sense, but unfortunately that’s not what we got…

I also agree that the game is just becoming a big zerg fest (think: Tequatl, wurm, marionette, mad king’s labyrinth 2.0, tower of nightmares, clockwork chaos, and now escape from L.A.). When was the last time they added content that was friendly to casual players or small groups? Twilight Assault? That was nearly five months ago… The new way of doing things seems to be open world zergs, where you become a faceless number in a swarm of 100+ people while you spam your first skill. It’s really not satisfying.

Vol.7601:

You are playing the wrong genre if you don’t like grind. Go play an RTS or FPS…

This game wasn’t this grindy at launch. Arenanet already proved that MMO’s do not have to be grindy to be fun. It was the Living Story that changed the paradigm.

Yes, there were grindy bits in the base game (for example, collecting tokens for dungeon armor) but these elements were not time-limited and you could work at them at your own pace. In contrast, two weeks or even a month to grind 250 heirlooms is simply not sufficient.

A bit of grind is expected in MMO’s but this is just ridiculous.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Go forth and collect, friends! That means we can get 36 heirlooms a day for 14 days, which is 504 heirlooms… Just enough for both potions. Don’t miss a day! (Or do some LA events to make up for those you miss)

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again – Casual players and people with busy lives are being screwed.

Unbelievable. They just keep amping the grind factor to the point where this game is like playing a second job.

Which is why I’m choosing not to participate. A mediocre reward is not worth the headache.

Ox See Sox.3687:

OK, its a Zerg Fest, OK, its a grind event fest, OK, lots of overflows, OK lots of bugs.

BUT THIS IS AWESOME!!!!

Grindy zergfests with overflow problems and lots of bugs (not to mention dealing with horrible FPS in the events despite having a powerful PC) equals not fun for me.

But to each their own.

Maybe if Abaddon came back, he could rival Scarlet’s power… Maybe.

I mean, Scarlet has pretty much surpassed the Elder Dragons power-wise already…

ChaosKirin.1328:

Where I see a character with potential and meaning – after all, the idea is that this character has come out of nowhere because she’s essentially a dragon’s puppet – everyone else sees a Sue. I don’t understand.

Scarlet is the foreshadowing you’re all looking for. Scarlet is the beginning of the story. She is not the big Bad Guy. She is the precursor for what many people believe is a dragon.

And that’s why you haven’t heard of her before in lore. She is essentially nothing but a blip in the big picture. And that is why she is well-written. She’ll die in obscurity, having heralded the coming of an Elder Dragon. I don’t care who. Primordus. Mordremoth. Whichever.

Not every first chapter has to start with a whisper. And if you look at the story and everything pertaining to it, you will see that this was all clearly planned from the start.

All of this is speculation. We still have no definite answer as to whether it’s a dragon or not.

In fact, it’s probably not a dragon, seeing as how Arenanet stated that “one in every ten thousand people who have guessed what it is have got it right”. Seeing as how EVERYBODY thinks it’s a dragon, it’s probably not a dragon.

As to why Scarlet remains a badly written character, well… I already ranted about that earlier in the thread (and provided examples), so I will decline to do so here. The fact that she’s foreshadowing for something larger is irrelevant.

lordkrall.7241:

PeterThomas.7243:

If this is true, then she should have been a part of the lore at launch. Like I said, a creature with her intelligence and capabilities would become a Tyrian celebrity, or at least a legend among the scholars at Rata Sum.

That does of course depend.
One could defend the lack of recognition simply with the fact that the Asura are ashamed that they are being over-shined by a salad. Asura does seem to have issues with other races being better than them at some things after all.

Sure, but that doesn’t explain why we didn’t hear about her from folks at the Black Citadel or at Hoelbrak. Somehow Scarlet kept the lid on all of these groups of people? Not even one person mentioned her at any time? Come on.

Keep in mind it would’ve actually benefitted the Living Story (and the lore in general) to make mention of Scarlet before unveiling her as a villain. It’s a device used in storytelling called foreshadowing and is generally considered a good thing to help viewers connect present events to past ones.

So what’s the more likely scenario: We hadn’t heard about her at all because she’s just really, really good at keeping herself unnoticed across all cultures and institutions, or the writers simply didn’t think things through?

Occam’s Razor, my friend.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Yeah I agree. I imagine they will change it all, so we shouldnt worry. They have a whole team of people whose job it is to pre-empt issues like this.

I worry because the Tower of Nightmares – which changed Kessex Hills forever – had some problems with integration.

A few examples: Remember how the Battle of Fort Salma raged on despite the fact that both sides were breathing toxic fumes, which both sides seemed not to notice? Yeah, that. Also, how the centaurs wouldn’t fight the Toxic Alliance or even notice they were there? That too.

The inconsistencies that popped up around that chapter could be contained because they were localized to one area in one zone. This time, Lion’s Arch’s absence will affect many zones in many places for many reasons.

Darkoray.4570:

… really how many are there to change. Call it a dozen?They can just change those hearts to reflect the changes in LA. So the previous heart mission goal is complete and a new heart is placed for a new mission.

I have a feeling it’s more than a dozen. It’s not just the text they need to change, either. The tasks you perform to complete those hearts involve keeping the roads clear so that trade can continue to flow to Lion’s Arch. Will they change how those hearts work entirely? It seems like a lot of precision work for a four-month development cycle…

If they actually go all the way and make new events and hearts to accomodate Lion’s Arch’s destruction, I guess I can’t complain, I just have a feeling that’s not what we’re going to get.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Technically all heart quests in game occur before Zhaitan’s death while the living story occurs the year after (going on the official timeline)… So they could leave all heart dialogue since it is essentially not rendered incorrect by the living story – it’s just happening at a different time.

Right, but new players won’t know that. And established players who haven’t gotten around to map completion will find a lot of contradictions in what they’re reading/experiencing when they do decide to get it done.

An important point was raised here and I felt it deserved its own thread.

What will happen to NPC dialogue and heart mail throughout the other zones that reference Lion’s Arch as a fully functioning (and intact) city?

Quoting the original post:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

There is so much chat and flavor text alluding to LA and trade throughout the game. The entire premise of the Havens and LionGuard out in the world zones is entirely connected to LA and trade route protection.

Hearts, Flavor text, dialog.. just a ton of in game information and lore connected to LA as it is now. If they leave all of that unchanged.. and given their track record they will, then we will have, again, NPCs and institutions blissfully unaware of LA destruction, living in the past, and what should be a world shaking event becomes simply a disconnected zone makeover like Kessex.

If they are going to present this as half-done, it shouldn’t have been done at all… I pity the future new players who listen to NPCs, read flavor text, read the hearts, and wonder why so much effort is being made to move trade to a City that no longer exists, and why NPCs keep acting as if nothing happened.

This user also posted an image as an example (attached).

So I guess my question is, will the devs actually take a scalpel and modify all references to Lion’s Arch throughout the game world and change them? Or are new players just going to be disappointed when they travel to the great city of Lion’s Arch only to find it’s in ruins (thereby contradicting what NPC’s in the game world have told them).

For that matter, what will happen to all the Lionguard havens? Will they all shut down, seeing as how trade routes will no longer be possible? What about all the dynamic events connected to Lion’s Arch? There are quite a few events involving defending caravans heading to Lion’s Arch, etc. Will they be removed, or will the NPC’s involved act oblivious to the fact that they’re heading toward a monster-infested ruin?

I’m a bit concerned. The integration of the Living Story into the base game hasn’t been great so far, and if the same attention to detail is exercised here there will be contradictions popping up all over the game world.

B, but only because Scarlet is the one responsible.

If Lion’s Arch’s demise was part of a well-written plot or caused by an Elder Dragon or something, that would be one thing… But having to be reminded of Scarlet and this horrendous plot for months or even years to come is nothing short of humiliating.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

There is so much chat and flavor text alluding to LA and trade throughout the game. The entire premise of the Havens and LionGuard out in the world zones is entirely connected to LA and trade route protection.

Holy crap, I hadn’t even thought of this. Are they seriously going to overhaul all NPC dialogue to compensate for this? Or just pretend it’s not an issue, like how they ignored the fact that the centaurs never noticed the Toxic Alliance were wrecking their land and countless other immersion-breakers…

This point deserves its own thread. I’ll see if any are made, and if not, I’ll make one myself.

EDIT: Done. The thread is here.

lordkrall.7241:

But there is a rather major issue there: She became Scarlet before GW2 in-game timeline even starts, rather long before even (she become Scarlet around 1321AE, GW2 Personal Story starts in 1325AE and the Living Story in 1326AE with the current year being 1327AE), so HOW would we be able to meet her before that?

If this is true, then she should have been a part of the lore at launch. Like I said, a creature with her intelligence and capabilities would become a Tyrian celebrity, or at least a legend among the scholars at Rata Sum.

The Wizard’s Tower was a complete mystery throughout all of Guild Wars 1. Remaining a complete mystery throughout Guild Wars 2 won’t hurt.

Seriously though, I do wish they’d finally explain it, or make a dungeon out of it, or something. I just hope to god they don’t wreck the experience by lumping it into a mediocre living story chapter.

goldenwing.8473:

ANet has said repeatedly that this is THEIR game. They have total control over the vision, the direction, the content, etcetera.

The players can accept what the developers are doing, tolerate it, or walk away.

You are, of course correct.

It just makes me sad.

The level of quality that the game offered at launch compared to what the Living Story offers us now are like night and day. I only keep playing because there’s still enough repeatable core content that interests me (for now).

Pirlipat.2479:

I think the main problem with Scarlett is that she has no significant weaknesses. She is mad but that is not a weakness but a strength in the stories context…

And she’s only insane because an evil entity is manipulating her, so it’s not even her fault. So even though she “enjoys” being cruel and sadistic, she’s also simultaneously a victim. Contradictions like this in character design typically leave viewers scratching their heads…

Pirlipat.2479:

That beeing said I never minded Scalett beeing so one dimensional but now they are going to destroy my favorite hub and it just feels deliberately. I wish I could be angry at Scarlett but the only way I personally can see her is that she is a poor actor who does what’s written in the storybook while she is lacking a really immersive dimension. Even if we manage to beat her in the end I think it will just feel like “Ok, this time I let you win…”

^ This. The destruction of Lion’s Arch is the first time that I wish the players had more control over the direction of the Living Story. So far, the only direct control we have had was when we voted for Ellen or Evon, and that was really an inconsequential choice in a lot of ways.

It really does feel like Arenanet is taking us for a ride, destroying things we love about the game and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Berethor.6142:

This makes no sense at all, those two phrases don’t even belong in the same sentence, "has stretched limits of believability " , “for a fantasy game where we have magic and monsters”

Its MAGIC, it doesn’t always make sense that’s why we call it magic and not science.

Astralporing pretty much summed up what I mean:

Astralporing.1957:

…even a fantasy setting and fantasy story need to be internally consistent.

Based on what the game has provided us to be true so far, Scarlet and the living story are breaking all of those rules in highly noticeable ways.

It would be like if Anakin Skywalker got angry and made a planet explode with his mind. In Star Wars we know that the force is powerful, but that would be a bit over the top. That kind of crap only happens in Dragon Ball, where beings of such power are established to exist (not that I’m defending the feasibility of what goes on in Dragon Ball mind you, but it’s just an example).

Feothyr.6072:

I got the perfect answer to all of your questions: magic!

I mean – seriously. It’s a fantasy game …

Okay, fine. Anything can happen for any reason and nothing means anything, because it’s magic. Sure, fine, you can use that as an argument, but it’s not going to redeem the bad writing. It just feels like an excuse.

How are we supposed to become invested in the story if every chapter is just a pie in the sky that doesn’t mean anything and makes no sense?

Matthew Oswald.3082:

The cinematics that you see in the personal story where 2 characters talk to each other on a stage-like environment have been…retired.

That’s unfortunate. I have really loved all of the personal story cut scenes, despite the fact that they might not be “perfect”. The pretty concept art in the backgrounds and character animations were a breath of fresh air.

To be honest, I never noticed any of the problems you listed (sometimes I saw discrepancies between the written dialogue and spoken, but that’s all). I always thought the cut scenes were a vast improvement over the way the first game handled cinematics.

I hope whatever tools you develop in their stead are just as impressive.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

PeterThomas.7243:

The chances of being able to go back to Cantha are very slim. The devs and community have already talked about this at length.

Actually I don’t think chances are slim at all. A lot of the devs have repeatedly expressed interest in going back to Cantha.

Yes, the devs want to, but NCsoft won’t let them. For now, at least.

mjhungness.8059:

PeterThomas, I believe I’m seeing your point, having re-read your posts. I’m guessing that, in answer to what I believe you are saying is a poorly integrated Living Story, it was just too big, too much, to integrate every aspect of the existing world with the new content. I’m talking about mob AI, existing quests, the ‘atmospere’ of the surroundings. It’s a valid complaint but that’s a daunting task.

It wouldn’t be a daunting task if they gave themselves enough time to properly develop the content, instead of sticking to this 2-week release treadmill. I know the development teams supposedly have 4 months before they release, but they’ve been quoted as saying they barely have enough time to release the content, let alone test it – and that’s not a good thing.

If we had proper expansion material that was implemented on a larger scale we wouldn’t have these problems. And the content could be more engaging, more immersive and more integrated.

mjhungness.8059:

The worst thing that could happen, from an ANet marketing standpoint, is to lure new players (and accounts!) into a world that has changed completely from what it was at launch – to bring them into an ongoing story in which they’ve lost the opportunity to experience older content. Again, creating a constently engaging, fair, cohesive world with every patch is daunting.

Actually the worst that can happen is the alienation new and casual players, which I’ve seen firsthand. The Toxic Offshoot events in Queensdale, for example, were absolutely impossible for level 10 players to complete even in a small group. Why? Because those events are not designed for level 10’s, they’re designed for level 80’s who are revisiting the area. But new players don’t know that. I’ve seen new players get very confused and frustrated at the sudden spike in difficulty, not to mention the fact that the Toxic Offshoots don’t correspond to any story element they’ve encountered so far (like, “where the hell did THESE things come from?”). And of course they may have missed all the previous content that explains their origin, and because that content is temporary, they have no hope of EVER experiencing the full story. It breaks immersion, breaks the story, gives preferential treatment to hardcore players and it’s just plain sloppy.

darkace.8925:

ChaosKirin.1328:

And I bet if a good portion of the people mentally rewrote her character as male, they would have no problem with her.

I did re-imagine her as a male. You know what she looked like? Dr. Klaw. “I’ll get you next time, Gadget!” Congratulations, you just solidified Scarlet as a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Saturday morning cartoon villains are NOT well-written characters.

LOL… Well put.

ChaosKirin.1328:

Okay, that sounds like a decent character. So what about Scarlet is radically different so that she’s a bad character?

The difference is that you really have to stretch believability in order to swallow everything related to Scarlet, whether it be her actions or backstory.

A few examples:

- Why do her dredge, flame legion, krait and nightmare court armies seem to pledge complete and undying loyalty to her? Aren’t there any internal power struggles? Betrayals? No? Why not? They have been bullied, pushed around, manipulated, lied to or led into slaughter. Why aren’t any of them upset and why aren’t any of them fighting back?

- Some of the alliances don’t make any sense in the first place. The Nightmare Court have absolutely no reason to ally with Scarlet, let alone the Krait, or at least none that’s been explained in any detail. The Krait allying with Scarlet sort of made sense because Scarlet promised them a prophet, but now that Scarlet has failed to deliver their prophet to them (due to the players killing it), why are they still blindly following her?

- As far as has been revealed to us, the Aetherblades are only allied with Scarlet because she “threatened to kill them”. In exchange, they have pledged their undying loyalty and their entire fleet of airships to her, not to mention allowing her to use them in any way she wishes, even if it results in them getting wholesale slaughtered. Really? Does this make sense? She apparently had the Aetherblades wrapped around her finger even before she acquired her army clockwork soldiers, so what means did she have at her disposal to threaten to kill them all? And if she had some means of killing them all, that would be a pretty powerful weapon. Why would she need clockwork soldiers or a mega-toxin in the first place? Furthermore, now that she can manifest UFO-style portals in the air that drop giant robots out of the sky, why does she even need the Aetherblades or their ships anymore? Why doesn’t she just drop one marionette on Lion’s Arch and be done with it?

- The fact that she’s a Sylvari that has graduated from all of the colleges at Rata Sum (which is apparently a feat that not even a single Asura has accomplished) is preposterous. The Asura are insular, racist, and supremacist. The only explanation we’ve been given so far as to why they let her do this was that “they were studying her”. Really? A race of super geniuses would grant a self-serving outsider access to their race’s best-kept secrets just so they could study her? And after the fact they let her get away? Why? Why make an exception for her? It doesn’t make sense.

- The fact that she traipsed around the globe and studied with willing teachers at the Black Citadel is equally preposterous. The Charr are just as wary of outsiders as the Asura are. Studying at Hoelbrak is a bit more feasible, but really… What are the chances of anybody studying at Rata Sum, The Black Citadel, Hoelbrak and with the Inquest all within a short time? She’s not a firstborn, so she’s in her early twenties. The Wiki says she stayed in the grove for eight years, so that only gives her about twelve years to earn these degrees, which seems implausible on its own. Then she ends up passing Statics and Dynamics within a single year. Really? If that’s the case, she’d be a freaking celebrity; the Einstein of Tyria, if you will. But we didn’t hear ANYTHING about her before she appeared suddenly at the Queen’s Jubilee. Why not?

- Logistics: Where did the Krait and Nightmare court acquire the lumber to build the Tower of Nightmares? If there’s a legitimate answer, why didn’t anybody notice the forests were disappearing en masse? Where did she get the raw materials for the marionette? Who mined them? Who assembled it? If she assembled it all on her own, that means she has godlike powers that no other character in the entire game has had aside from the Six Gods themselves, and is preposterous. If her allies assembled it, wouldn’t that take a long time? And after all that work, why would they test it in an unpopulated area instead of unleashing it on Scarlet’s true target (Lion’s Arch)?

- The Durmand Priory, who are specialists at acquiring knowledge, failed to notice that Scarlet had a secret lair right under their feet. Seriously?

It comes down to the fact that there are too many leaps of faith required to take the character seriously. When people refer to her as a “Mary Sue”, what they mean is she’s a character with no flaws and seemingly limitless power just for the sake of having it. She’s super powerful, super intelligent, super witty, super sexy, and does not appear to have any flaws other than this gnawing entity that is manipulating her – but of course, that’s not her fault.

I could go on and on, but unfortunately the character limit for these posts is 5000 and I don’t feel like spamming this thread any more than I already have on this subject.

ChaosKirin.1328:

Why did Varesh make sense compared to Scarlet? You’re going to have to fill me in here, as I’m not familiar with the character.

Varesh was the heiress to one of the Elonian countries (Kourna) and therefore had its armies and resources at her command. She was the descendent of one of the greatest heroes in Elonian history, Turai Ossa, and commanded great loyalty and respect from her subjects as a result.

She became tempted by the power Abaddon could offer her and realizes she could rule all of Elona instead of just Kourna with Abaddon’s help. At first, due to her lineage and reputation, her advisors and subjects follow along with her.

It became soon apparent that Varesh is calling upon Abaddon to swell her armies with demons to give her an edge against the other nations. In doing so, she begins to lose support from her closest followers, but the rest of the nation follows along out of submission and fear. Also, allying herself with Abaddon has basically cost her soul, and she slowly began to transform into a Margonite.

As I recall, Varesh regrets her actions toward the end, but by then it’s too late and Abaddon has complete control of her. The players, along with Varesh’s advisors who have abandoned her, are forced to kill her in an attempt to stop Abaddon from breaking through into reality.

Her motivations for why she wanted to ally with Abaddon were never fully explained, but you got the sense that she just wanted more power, just like how some people in real life do. However, her ability to command armies, tap into ancient religious powers, and wield tremendous political power all made sense (i.e., due to her wealth, money, power and privileged birthright). Everything she did in the story made sense and did not require huge leaps of faith in order to accept. Most importantly, she was a flawed character with weaknesses as well as strengths.

Overall she was an effective villain – intimidating, independent, power-hungry, and female. So there you go.

Varesh was not the best written character in the world, but she was written by Arenanet and she was pretty freaking good. Thus, Arenanet has no excuse why they can’t pull off the same level of quality for Scarlet.

The chances of being able to go back to Cantha are very slim. The devs and community have already talked about this at length.

Check out this gigantic thread about it.

It’s more realistic to ask for an Elonian campaign, which I’d be down for.

ChaosKirin.1328:

I get this feeling that if Scarlet were male, no one would have a problem with her at all.

I mean, she’s the equivalent to many other male characters that have stormed across canons in the past. The Joker is mentioned in that massively article. She is like the Reavers in Firefly – at first, no reason is given for their existence, but people are terrified of them nevertheless. She’s Crais from Farscape. John Locke from LOST. Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII. Magneto from the X-Men.

And I bet if a good portion of the people mentally rewrote her character as male, they would have no problem with her.

No. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a female villain if she’s written well.

For example, Varesh Ossa in Guild Wars: Nightfall was a very effective villain. Speaking of which, there are parallels between her and Scarlet: Varesh was being manipulated by a dark evil entity (Abaddon), she was a very selfish and self-serving person and she had great armies and resources at her command. Yet, her character was believable and made sense, whereas Scarlet does not.

To save time (again) I’m going to link the Massively article that sums up most of what is wrong with Scarlet’s writing and backstory.

I like strong female characters whether they are villains or not. The problem is that Scarlet simply isn’t one. Yet she’s the star of the show at the moment.

(P.S., I actually don’t think any of the villains you cited in your post are particularly strong or well written either. The fact that they’re male does not let them off the hook.)

mjhungness.8059:

I guess I was referring to the game being a living, changing world, regardless which mechanism is used, Living Story, Dynamic Event, etc. … it beats doing the same old tired quests over and over again…

They could still accomplish this if they decided to regularly release PERMANENT new content with stories and scenarios that make sense.

Berethor.6142:

… if you had done the quest they put up for this event and you actually listened to the “information” that has been collected by the detective you work with you would have noticed by now they are making scarlet out to be the GW2 version of Moriarty from Sherlock, I love that show and absolutely love the idea of them putting that type of character in an MMO for me to fight.

I stated in my original post that I have, in fact, played “A study in Scarlet” and reviewed all the information contained therein, and I still find the story to be ridiculous.

Partly this is because Scarlet’s foundations as a character were flawed in the first place (to save time, I’m just going to link that Massively article again), and partly it’s because most of what Scarlet’s been up to has stretched the limits of believability even for a fantasy game where we have magic and monsters.

lordkrall.7241:

I still keep wondering why this is a problem, but the fact that the Pact seems to have more or less unlimited resources doesn’t seem to be an issue at all

Yes, but the pact didn’t make a gigantic 200 foot tall robot appear out of nowhere, nor a gigantic wooden tower in the middle of Viathan Lake (seriously, the disappearance of most of Kryta’s forests to build that thing would have been noticeable to SOMEONE).

mjhungness.8059:

… But the game was sold as being a living world, so be it.

I don’t know if you can really say that. The Living Story was added to the game well after launch and completely contradicts the developer’s design manifesto. The game we were sold at launch is not the game we have now.

The only references to a “living, breathing world” at launch refered to the dynamic event system, which works just fine.

In contrast, the Living Story doesn’t feel living at all. It feels completely separate from the core content; the integration, if any, is poor (for example, the centaurs not noticing that the toxic alliance were all over their land, the Order of Whispers not noticing a giant metal probe in front of their headquarters).

The Living Story does evolve and change, granted. But it leaves the rest of the game in the dust. Simply messing up Lion’s Arch or Kessex Hills isn’t enough to make the living story feel integrated, nor does it add value. It feels like a cheesy sticker hastily pasted over a beautiful work of art.

Zelkovan.2630:

I still dislike the Scarlet storyline in general but I’ve been coming to like it more due to the higher amounts of storytelling. I just wish they had done that from the start.

I’ve honestly been fine with the additional storytelling. Marjory, Braham, Rox, Kasmeer and Taimi are all great characters who bring well-written dialogue to the table. I do hope they keep them around and continue to develop them.

Unfortunately the foundation of the story is entirely based upon Scarlet’s preposterous story arc, and their contributions to the lore are cheapened as a result.

Gabby.3205:

I want this.
I want to see the world changing, and I don’t care if the changes are made by Scarlet, Abaddon or Lord Faren.

I’d be down for Lord Faren changing the world. Unlike Scarlet, he’s well written, his character makes sense and he doesn’t break the lore. He’s annoying, sure, but that’s part of his charm.

This isn’t the first thread addressing this major problem in Scarlet’s story.

Since the story is coming to a close soon though, hopefully it will be the last.

Arenanet has stated that the conclusion to this story will “change the face of Tyria forever”.

I imagine this means that Lion’s Arch will become permanently messed up somehow, like Kessex Hills is now, or if not, some permanent cosmetic change on the same scale.

So I guess my question is, do we really want this? To be reminded of Scarlet for the rest of time? She is, hands down, the worst written villain in Guild Wars history (even worse than Shiro, which is astonishing). To have her influence permanently change the game world would cheapen the otherwise excellent content we enjoy in the non-living story elements of the game.

Scarlet and this entire story arc are better left forgotten, not immortalized. If Arenanet insists on continuing with this living story format, they should start from scratch instead of building upon what’s already been established this past year.

drkn.3429:

What we see in-game is what you described. But in the universum as it is, i suppose there are dozens of trained Lionsguard, the orders keep an eye on any threats to big towns, the asura gate system would allow the race capitals to reinforce LA – its existence helps maintain the status quo and is important to everyone, especially Jennah.

Still, what I said stands – All she’d need to do is drop one marionette out of the sky… Bam, done.

drkn.3429:

I’m actually surprised Scarlett seemingly hasn’t tried to hijack the asura gate system…

Marjory, Kasmeer and Vorpp actually imply that Scarlet may do this to assault the city. It seems to me that if she exploited that path with even ONE of her crazy armies (let’s say, her clockwork horrors alone) she could take the city in short order, so why does she need all this extra stuff?

lordkrall.7241:

They also have direct access to all the capitals of the major races, which means that they could get rather big groups of reinforcements quite fast (unless the gates were destroyed before or just as the attack started.)

They are also aware that Scarlet might very well be planning to attack LA. So it is unlikely that it would be an easy target.

Marjory strongly implies that Lion’s Arch is pretty much undefended and completely unprepared for a major attack and that the captain’s council are all strongly against bolstering the city’s defenses in any way.

Even so, if all of LA’s allies rushed to help, still one marionette could wipe them all out.

After all, even if all of the greatest adventurers are assembled at once (the players) they only have about a 10% chance of beating one.

lordkrall.7241:

But then again. Why assume Lions Arch is the actual target?

It seems like it isn’t, and yet the story strongly implies that Scarlet was worried about making sure she could take Lion’s Arch swiftly and easily. She even went so far as to try and insert her own councillor onto the captain’s council (Mai Trin).

If she doesn’t care about killing people and has godlike powers to destroy anything she chooses, why would she even bother with cloak and dagger like this? Does not make sense.

As I said in my original post, they’ll have a hell of a time wrapping this up.

(This post is about “A study in Scarlet”. If you haven’t played it yet or don’t want it spoiled, don’t expand the next section.)

NinjaChris.9340:

Imo, the problem lies with the boss spawning way too often. Let him spawn every 2 hours for the first week, but after that reduce it to 3 times a week, and later even to once a week.

That would require consistent spawn times, e.g. Friday 17:30 GMT. With the ability to guest to other timezones (should something come up) but only getting one try at the boss.

And I suppose the people who have to work around that time will just never get the chance. Riiight… That works for everybody. >.>

Furthermore, how in the hell would people be able to organize themselves, even if they could absolutely keep that time slot free? The map only supports 120 people or some such, and as it stands, you’re likely to get bumped to overflow when an organized guild is making an attempt. So let’s say 5-10 guilds all show up to do it, you’ll inevitably get 10-20 overflow servers full of people who don’t know each other all running around without guidance.

And even if they do manage to get their kitten together and make an honest attempt, they still might fail anyway, and then they have to wait another week.

lordkrall.7241:

Getting metrics on how many people enjoy content would be rather impossible, seeing as it would always be a biased result (while metrics show an unbiased, absolute, result).

But they could get SOME information, even if it was inaccurate to a degree. People were presented with a poll after completing personal story chapters during the beta. They were asked how much you liked each chapter on a scale of 1-5. The code to implement something similar for the Living Story is therefore already made and could be used with little additional development time.

That would at least give them some idea of how much people enjoyed it, right?

Hmm, more bad press for the Living Story. Not entirely surprised.

I agree with a lot of what was said in the article. Most of the writer’s criticisms are obvious to all but the most hardcore of players.

I don’t agree with everything, though. For example, I do not believe that:

“sPvP is skeletal in its implementation with balance all over the place, WvW maps are too small and encourage zerging (still), dungeons awful…”

The problem with WvW, dungeons, sPvP and other sectors of the game is that they aren’t getting enough development. We need more maps and game modes for sPVP. We need more dungeons. But of course, the majority of development is being dumped into Living Story instead, which is throwaway content.

The game needs content that enriches the game and adds longevity, bottom line.

Xalugami.2096:

I just wanted to say that I’m impressed at how successful the Living World team was at accomplishing their goal with Scarlet thus far. From what I remember, the initial goal with our “personal rival” was to make a character that the players hated, like deeply hated, and felt the need to rise up against her…

Most likely this was the ironic way of achieving this (rather than an actually fleshed out and solid villain), but it still makes me smile how it got the job done. I do believe everyone here is excited to see her story put to an end; which is exactly what the goal was.

Nope. It’s been said in this thread already, but the reason she’s hated is because she breaks the lore, has a flimsy backstory, her motivations make no sense, and every action she takes seems infeasible even for a supremely overpowered entity such as herself (to save time, I’m just going to link the article Massively wrote on this subject).

I don’t hate the character; I hate that she’s poorly written. There’s a difference. And it doesn’t make me want to fight her harder, it makes me want to not participate in the Living Story at all (which I am no longer doing).

I actually liked her character design; she had a lot of potential. They just squandered it.

ExAstris.8527:

phys.7689:

Its not the love angle, its kasmeer coming off as a fairly whiny self absorbed annoyance. I took his teddy bear weep weep cry cry blah blah. Maybe Im just a cynical street rat who cant relate to her priviledged lifestyle.

Also its kinda like, why is she whining about that now, we got a crazy scarlet dragons bandits and she s crying because she became poor.

Or…or it’s because it happens to be her father’s birthday. He’s dead. She’s remembering her father. On his birthday. It makes her sad. People are sometimes sad. Marjory asks why and what happened. Kasmeer answers. Shares a little about herself with the person she’s in a relationship with. I know. Unfathomable.

^ This. Pretty sure it wasn’t about the money.

I have also been enjoying the story bits in the past few updates. Aside from Scarlet, the Living Story characters are all really well written.

Chrispy.5641:

I liked the story instance, but the conversation between marjory and kasmeer came off as…I don’t know. I didn’t care for it very much.

Ah, they’re in love. Give ’em a break.

Elesh.6192:

I’m sorry, but OP is just spoiled with the new generation of achievement-hoarding games, forgetting even that an “Achivement” by definition was supposed to be a feat to begin with. The release’s mechanics are really easy to learn and understand (Second try was sufficient to figure out what did what, without visiting any outside sites or sources.)

It’s a bit different when the achievements are time-gated. Only have two weeks or a month to figure it out changes the situation entirely.

Some players may not have the time to spend during that time period to get all the achievements done, even if they wanted to.

lordkrall.7241:

Back in the days before the internet (or at least before it was not widespread) people still managed to complete games (which were often much harder than todays games for that matter) without having someone tell them exactly what to do.

I remember those days. And in those days, games were packed with manuals that explained how to play it.

Morrigan.2809:

PeterThomas.7243:

It would probably help if there was some way (in-game) to figure out what the hell we’re supposed to do in each lane. New players would therefore be fully equipped with the information they need to succeed before trying it.

sure that would be great.
however Anet did state somewhere that they want players to self educate or some such- so that means that someone has to figure out the mechanics through trial and error and spread the word.

Yup, I know Anet stated that. And it’s stupid.

There’s a reason games are packed with manuals that let you know how to play them, or why most games have a tutorial, or tutorial content seeded throughout the game. That’s because players tend to like to know how to play a game before they play it. Otherwise they will fail miserably and feel cheated (sound familiar? A lot of people on this forum are feeling this way).

There is absolutely no reason why the players should be kept in the dark about what to expect. I don’t want to have to rely on jerky commanders who are insulting me every 60 seconds in order to play the game. Arenanet is effectively passing the buck onto their players.

All they had to do was have a single NPC, an asuran researcher or something, give a vague rundown of what to do. But we got nothing.