If you plan on playing your necro in PvP for the most part it would be recommended to create an asura, since necros have lackluster escape options and access to rezz signets, they tend to get focused pretty hard by everything organized and not beeing a giant helps to some extent.
On the other hand, if you enjoy the norn animations and visuals if would say just go with it.
I am not quite sure what you guys want to tell me. That i can’t compare ele and necro healing values because protective boons like Protection and vigor make eles healing values actually higher would be my guess.
If that is the case ok but even it is not true, that eles heal for more than necros. Eles just heal more effective in regards to their total hp and their dmg mitigation capabilites.
Apart from that DS is to some extent comparable to the invulnerability skills from other classes and that is by design. Since you start a match with 0 LF you need to pay opportunity cost to build it up and this could mean using your auto attack after some initial burst attempt to even get to the 10% LF barrier to enter DS.
@Relair Most of the healing is direct healing from signet of the locust (1s cast), heal skill (~1s cast) and Life siphon (dagger2 channel) which is not affected by entering DS. This alone accumulates to 20k. The rest comes mostly from regen, so obviously some of it will be lost in DS but not everything.
And why can’t i compare those two things? If you got a weapon that has a lifestealing(healing skill on it) and a trait line for life leeching which is also pushing your healing, why can’t i take a look at other classes that do healing right and try to see if the values are right? From my point of view the values are right, just on the wrong skills, which are just too hard to use succesfully…
(edited by Bellamy.9860)
DriV, while i would agree wholheartedly on your comment the situation CHIPS describes is just pretty strange. If it was a 1v1 encounter he could have probably prepared for the next time and bring a stunbreak, if it seriously happened in a zerg he should’ve pretty much ignored the thief and let his zergmates rezz him.
If it works exactly like the trait, it does no direct damage at all.
In regards to poisons damage component see flumeks post.
If he got you Doom down through his opening there is only mark stacking on top of you and biding your time till doom is up again.
I would suggest trying to dodge/blind the skullfear but this seems out of the question since he couples it with stealth.
If you meet a good thief who uses his cooldowns it is not such a cakewalk vs thieves like some peeps on this subforum make it seem.
Depending on your build you got some to zero chance vs thief with cds up (carrion/condi/well is pretty much dead).
Edit: oh its wvw? then just take spectral walk for this occasion
(edited by Bellamy.9860)
I don’t want to jump on the ele hate bandwagon, i want to take a look at a working tanky dps setup, offering great sustain and want to compare this sustain to a necro specc which should in my opinion offer similar healing capabilities. I am ok with necros limited access to boons and also with our horrible mobility.
Also i don’t want to dip into minions. They offer something like 80 healing per hit if traited and got the typical minion downsides.
The parameter: We got a simulated 1v1 combat encounter over 30 seconds. In this timeframe there exists no overheal and skills won’t be dodged. Both contestants use a valkyrie amulett with zerker gem 30 points into their vit/healing trait line, no sigils, no runes and got 30% boon duration from somewhere.
Starting with the ele:
Getting hit by some initial burst using one of 3 stunbreaks applying 12s regen for a total amount of 2436 healing, switching to water applying another 6s regen for 1218 healing, soothing mist stays for estimated 5s healing for 109*5= 545. Initial water attune (cleansing wave trait) following a cleansing wave and water trident heals for 1886+1886+2032=5804.
In a 30 sec battle you can pretty much guarantee 20 casts from the ele (they are more likely to do above 30) healing for 20*260=5200.
A second switch to water at the end applies another cleansing wave on switch + casting water trident equals another 3918. We ignore the additional healing through water attune and the applied regen, because battle is pretty much over.
So this is very bad math, we don’t state when things are done, the number of casts in this timeframe is way too low and we do not add the 260 healing per cast from signet to things like attuning to water and casting trident and cleansing wave and we ignore the passive healing from regen and soothing mists at the end.
But nonetheless this is a pretty doable scenario and also one that probably heals for more in an actual combat encounter.
What do we get in the end is a whooping 19121 healing.
Now lets move on to the necro:
We take Bloodthirst, Vampiric Rituals and Deathly Invigoration as traits and use 2 wells plus signet of locusts.
Start with the heal and using it ONCE while affected by 3 conditions: 5824+3*783=8173.
Our wells heal us for 10*(42+38)=800; signet of the locust heals for 1528 on activation 38 fom vampiric. Through with the utilities, move on to weapon skills
In this timeframe we can cast 3 life siphons for (33338)*9*3= 10017. Yep, that is the number from life siphon.
We also get to exit Deathshroud 3 times healing us for another 3*455=1365, also we get regen from focus offhand. 2 casts stacking max duration each equals 12s regen per cast. This applies 2*12*203=4872 healing. Then we consider atleast 10 hits with dagger autoattack: 10*38=380.
Sums up to 27173. Thats 42% percent more than the ele could do!
So what do we learn from that?
Passive heal from vampiric, vampiric Rituals and to some extend signet of the locust is close to useless.
Life siphon heals for a crapload over time but needs line of sight/ can be dodged/ interrupted and outdamaged too easily with its 3,5 second cast time.
If you want a maximized vampiric experience you should go for 15-20 points into blood magic and grab bloodthirst and vampiric(15pt minor).
What would i suggest: reduce immob duration on Dark Pact to 1,5 – 2 seconds and bring its cd close to Life siphon, reduce life siphon channel duration to 2-2,5 seconds while maintaining its 9 attacks then necro while be fine atleast in theoretical 1v1 skirmishes.
Also i inteded to do a more thought out version first but this got too much wall of text too quickly, so if anything is unclear feel free to ask.
EDITed in this afterthought:
1) Life siphon heals dont scale well: With 0 additional power and healing power you heal for 202 per pulse. If you could get bloodthirst without getting the healing power from the traitline you would be at 303 healing per pulse. Vampiric plus bloodthirst adds another 38 healing per pulse.
2) To buff Vampiric Life siphon needs to be reworked (it needs it anyways imo) because the heal you can get out of it is pretty impressing, but also to succeptible to everything closely resembling an enemy player.
3) Life siphon does no damage. Change it!
(edited by Bellamy.9860)
Spectral grasp just got thrown back at you via reflecting skills, that is all.
And to answer you question: The enemy used a projectile reflect. Projectiles from friendlies aren’t effected by reflection from friendlies.
Just tested it in the mists and the 25% buff should apply in combat.
If you want to verify it for yourself i suggest doing the following:
Attack a golem or npc in the mists, walk a bit and activate signet of the locust. By doing so the passive movement speed buff will go on cooldown.
You should notice a significant decrease in movement speed.
Apart from that i heard that signet passives tend to bug out if you get out of deathshroud since the january patch(which also brought in the delay on utility skills after exiting DS) but i could not confirm this for myself
The game handles most attacks as either melee or projectile. On the melee end of things this leads to wells and i think sceptre auto attack triggering effects like the stun from an enemy shielded by lightning aura.
I am not sure but i think i read somewhere on the forum that corrupt boon has a spectral grasp like projectile component. So it could be body blocked by clones/minions/pets/other players or just miss because of (slight) height differences or a pebble on the projectiles path.
The biggest problem with your numbers is that you need to hit so many requirements to even get there. Specific off hand weapon, 100% crit, heavy traiting, stationary targets, specific utilities. If all of those are met you get a 550~ dps and hps increase for around 5 secs, then it goes down to around 400 and after 5 more secs you are sitting at 300 and while your numbers for multiple targets sound good it just adds 4 more stationary targets who dont just instantly gib you to your list of requirements.
The biggest problem i got with vampiric necros is that i take a look at the common spvp ele builds and see their sustain and compair it with ours. While i seriously don’t want to bring the ele hate into this thread i cannot understand why our self healing capabilites through leeching are not somewhere close to their level and especially why Life siphon (dagger2) is so gimped with its ridicously long channel time and line of sight on activation requirement ( i am ok with needing line of sight while channeling, which is there in spvp not pve and wvw, but going instantly on cd if line of sight is somehow cancelled while its inital and terribly delayed casting sequence happens is just utterly wrong).
While i agree on the part with vampiric runes not maximizing the purpose of your build i still find them pretty decent. 2k burst lifeleech per encounter and the mistform while under 10% has its uses, atleast in wvw and pve.
If you want to maximize lifesteals you should also take a look at vampirism runes. They give another ~980 when you are struck (15sec cd) and a 2nd lifesteal when using your heal. Doing bad math and assuming you use Consume conditions, thats another 104 points per second leeched.
The biggest problem i have with vampiric builds is the necessity of omnom and sigil of blood. Every class has access to those and can perform pretty much on an equal level in terms of lifestealing, so its not anything fancy or necro specific which it should be imho.
Curses
Weakening shroud: This is pretty much the only useful option (and a good one too) on your way to fury on DS.
Banshees Wail over Spectral Attunement: I prefer the 5 sec cd reduction on the warhorn skills over 6 secs on your pull since the daze is more reliable to land and aoe.
It would also be possible to go 15 curses and put the 5 points in either blood for 500hp and regen or better Soul Reaping for increased life force gain and 5% crit dmg.
Death Magic
Greater Marks is necessary if you play with a staff, it makes marks pretty easy to land and more effective in aoe situations. Putrid marks teamfight capabilites also get increased thanks to the larger circle.
50% health increase to minions is necessary for the flesh golem to work. If you don’t have it he gets aoe cleaved so easy while with it he survives some fights.
This trait does close to nothing for bone minions since you either start a fight with pulling someone into you and letting them explode or summoning them to let them explode.
Deadly Strength (minor) i quickly wanted to mention this minor trait since it gives you an additional 90 power.
Death Nova (build2): i like the poison field a lot. If someone stays in both fields for their whole duration(3secs each) they just got poisoned for about 24 secs. Also since putrid explosion is one of your opening moves it reduces the effectiveness of their following heal.
So thats it from my side. Give this build a try and tell me what you think or just look over it and give me some feedback. Thanks for your attention.
TL:DR
Pull stuff with Spectral grasp followed by Dark Pact and melt their faces with Putrid explosion and dagger auto
The Build (same Link as Build 2)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBIhZakRravUTZjePBI94ZqnGSxuSHp44lB;TsAA0CnoKyUkoIbRuikFt+YMysAA
(edited by Bellamy.9860)
Hi
i just want to get some opinions in on my daggermancer minionbuild and present the thoughts involved so if you just want to see the build skip to the TL:DR section.
Since i like the melee aspect of the necro but found it kind of difficult to maintain pressure on other classes (if you get bursted you got to go defensive and can’t put out enough pressure with dagger autos to keep them from just finishing you) i took a look at some utilites.
I started out with some of the more obvious choices like BiP, wells or even spectral skills and while the damage increase from BiP and the direct damage from Well of Suffering are really nice, they come with the downside of beeing easily avoided, suceptible to kiting and overall they are more on the DoT side of things. Wells take 5 secs to deliver their dmg and BiP is a percentual dmg increase.
Spectral skills on the other side serve a more defensive purpose, protection on Spectral Wall and Spectral Armor, increased Life force on Spec Armor and Spec Walk and while the kiting possibilities through Walk are really fancy, thats pretty much all there is to it. The stun breaker aspects of those skills would be a welcome addition if their cd’s wouldn’t be so horrible and the skill effects would be more useful.
So what i wanted was some necro build with a more bursty feeling to it coupled with enough survivability to deal with the glass cannons roaming pvp land.
Utility wise i settled with Spectral grasp, bone minions and signet of locust for movement/healing. The heal of choice is obviously Consume Conditions and Flesh golem as elite.
For weapons i use dagger(rage)/warhorn(force) and staff(energy), a valk amulett with a zerker gem and lyssa runes.
While Spectral grasp is still kinda hard to hit it just synergizes really well with Dark Pact (dagger 3) and putrid explosion coupled with dagger autos. In a 2 sec window you can expect around 8k damage and some nice follow up stuff like flesh golem charge/ wail of doom.
The stronge side of this build is a crapload of hard cc (3sec immob, 2 sec area daze, pull, 2 sec line knockdown, 1sec area fear, 1 sec single target fear) while delivering some serious pain coupled with decent survivability.
Lyssa runes and Flesh golem summon/charge grants much needed stability and allows you to deal with team fights and cc heavy speccs.
Death shroud grants fury and retal and functions as either a furybuff for dagger autos, nice longish range damage tool (if over 50%), or your “oh kitten, better fear that pesky thief/warri/ele that is whooping my kitten #8221;-button.
Since bone minions are more or less "shatter"fodder their survivability is not an issue.
So, i got two versions which fulfill my needs. The first one got 30 in spite for the 20% dmg under 50, the second one(which i like more) gives a poison field on minion down.
This works with jagged horrors and putrid Explosion.
Version one 30 spite
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBIhZakRravUTZjePBIz4Zqhesr0OHf4YA;TsAA0CnoKyUkoIbRuikFt+YMysAA
Version two 30 death Magic
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBIhZakRravUTZjePBI94ZqnGSxuSHp44lB;TsAA0CnoKyUkoIbRuikFt+YMysAA
About the Traits:
Spite
Retal on Death shroud: is kind of a filler but has it upsides, like the obvious one that you enter DS when you get bursted so it is ok but in no way necessary.
30% minion damage: More dmg on Putrid Explosion, more damage on Flesh golem charge and autos, profit.
Close to Death(build1): This one looks so nice on paper but the necro is not a thief. Also it does not increase minion damage including putrid explosion which is why i decided to take it out.
(edited by Bellamy.9860)