Guild Wars 2

TyPin.9860:

I’m having enough of this. Guys, before you throw your impressions and feelings of the phrase “big-game hunting” around, please research the term. It is more than fitting for a dragon hunter… it is a necessity even…

Dragon hunting is fine for a big game hunter.

guardians are not big game hunters.

Even Jon said they were supposed to be more like witchhunters.

No, dragons are not this game’s version of witches. They can’t both be game and witches. And no, dragons aren’t evil. They’re basically elemental forces and part of the cycle of the land.

Ryuu.5608:

Necro’s new spec for today, “Reaper”, so.. I wonder where is this specialization excuse to go so out of theme with Guardian.. Mesmers get a shield and ability to manipulate time, Necros get a sword and it’s all about fear, terror like a “classic horror movie”.

And Guardians get a crocodile dundee thematic spec..

I am very happy for Necros. They got a great video and what appears to be some awesome skins and a theme that fits their class PERFECTLY! +

Alas, that makes the Guardian spec all the more lack luster. Did they put all their effort into these other specs? I know necros needed love but did that necessitate neglecting the guardian spec and piecemilling together the most generic of the generic?

dietzero.3514:

AikunFelcis.7258:

Mesmer and Necromancer got really cool & fitting specialization’s name (Chronomancer and Reaper) reflected in skill/gameplay/theme as it seems. “Dragonhunter” totally fails at this, unfortunately.

Because those two are Robert, while the Guardian is Karl.

Thieves are in trouble…

Wow. >_> Well, all hail Robert and let’s hope Karl McLain learns a bit from him….

Go look at how great the necro introduction was- video, description, gear and traits were all cohesive and the video was in character and so polished.

Guardians got rippppped off.

Gilgalas.7860:

So many replies, so much time spend arguing endlessly in vain, restating again and again the same things. Wow, some people around this forum obviously have time to lose.

Let us just state the obvious: should Anet change the name, there would be another plethora of posts: “I don’t like this new name, use this other one instead. Even dragon hunter was actually better”. So why should Anet even bother to change it ?

People aren’t complaining about Chronomancer or Druid or Revnant….

Genesis.8572:

Conclusion: Only three of the twelve traits directly references hunting (H’s Determination, H’s Fortification, and Big Game H), and two kinda allude to dragons (Soaring Devastation, Big Game H).

Soaring Devastation refers to the wings becoming a damage leap instead of a heal leap… And the wings are Dwayna wings, not dragon wings so you can knock that off the list.

Then, on top of that, the “Big Game Hunter” undermines what Jon said when he was all “ooooh, no, you’re not /that sort of hunter./ You’re witch hunters, obviously!” Nah, man- being a game hunter is in the trait line. You can’t trick us! :<

I’m repeating myself at this point but what the posters above said is true. Dragonhunters aren’t “themed” properly. Giving us a questionable elite (dragon vs dragon ammirite) and gear skins that are pretty generic/reminiscent of dragon-bash does not make us a “dragon themed class.” In fact, it seems like a last ditch effort to cobble together some semblance of theme that leaves me thinking “why bother?” I’d have been over-the-moon with more shoulders in line with the starter shoulders and an ethereal looking bow.

(Go look at Wings of Dwayna and Chaos Bow… Guardians have been snatching those up. Why? Because THAT’S the sort of gear they want. Not this dragon-mumbo-jumbo that looks more warrior and ranger style.)

No, you’re saying that somehow these two sentences- “Sadly, I like that even better than Dragonhunter. Seriously.”- are contemptuous and lacking of civility.

Out of everyone in this thread, you’re trying way too hard to be offended and pick fights. From here on out, I’m just going to ignore the “input” you have and get back on topic….

I’d like to reiterate again that the community has been both respectful and helpful for the most part. They don’t just say “I hate the name”- they give valid reasons and creative alternatives. They aren’t senselessly criticizing.

I hope that Anet takes a long look into what has been put forward. If it is too late for a class name-change at this point, I am sure they will still have found great insight from these threads and the community’s reaction in general.

Nike.2631:

Alice.5360:

If you think people in opposition to the name are being unrealistically mean/rude/disrespectful, then you are being overly sensitive.

That is comedy gold coming from you.

Alice.5360:

Jinn Kazuma.2163:

Calling the spec “Hammerlock” would have been a better option if they want to stick with the big game hunter route.

Sadly, I like that even better than Dragonhunter. Seriously.

Believe me, I’m a master of snide. It doesn’t take all caps or deathreats to spell out CONTEMPT in all caps .

Why do you feel the need to be offended on the belhalf of the Devs?

I said irritated. When I’m offended, I don’t post, I just report it and move on.

No offense but you’re seeing things where there’s nothing- I do actually like Hammerlock better. Is having an opinion “contemptuous” now?

Nike.2631:

I’ll be more fascinated to see how many of them contributing to this discord are ever invited back. Some certainly, but not all I bet.

Don’t be ridiculous- if they only invite the most glowing of reviewers to their sessions then no one will take the reviews seriously. These media-folk only gave their opinion. That’s what they’re supposed to do. If they didn’t give their opinion, they’d not be trust worthy and thus be of no use to Anet as a means of free promotion.

Nike.2631:

You did read that dragonhunters – plural – are an outgrowth of the circumstances of the age and not just lunkhead’s personal mommy issues, yes?

It’s still PVE motives forced onto every guardian that wants to pick up a bow, be it for PVP or WVW or what-have you.

Nike.2631:

A fair portion of my irritation comes down to respect. The ArenaNet designers don’t do what I’d prefer at every turn, but they’ve sure as hell earned the right to take their chances. If they wanted to call the Necromancer Elite “Gooseberry Muffin” my eyebrows would go up, but I still wouldn’t have foam dripping from my mouth when I asked them “hey, whasuup with that?” And push your cheek into their outstretched hand and call it being slapped in the face if you want, but the further explanation they gave for the Dragonhunter name not only made sense to me, but was largely reiterating what I’d already gleaned from the blog.

If you think people in opposition to the name are being unrealistically mean/rude/disrespectful, then you are being overly sensitive. No one has slung rude names or screamed in all caps or the like. Why do you feel the need to be offended on the belhalf of the Devs? This is their job, they are adults, they don’t need your… “intervention.”

In comparison to this civil discussion of renaming, consider that changes to a class in SWTOR recently led to a developer and their family being doxxed and threatened. THAT is the sort of behavior you should be condemning, not opinionated posts that are remaining within the designated thread.

AikunFelcis.7258:

origin.1496:

I don’t feel like reading through pages of arguments. I read someone’s facebook post about a possible “why” to it being called a Dragonhunter, and figure I’d re-post.

“I believe the Dragon Hunter is going to have a story reference behind it
specifically involving Braham and Eir
Braham will become specialized as a Dragon Hunter after a scenario occurs and he will be taking up Eir’s bow when he does it

the Specifics of the Scenario are not listed because I’d rather people think for themselves plus I don’t want to spoil anything if I happen to be right about what I think is coming

but that being said I think Braham will wield Eirs bow and declare himself a Dragonhunter effectively creating/naming the Guardian specialization…"

Maybe Braham will have a reason to call himself a Dragonhunter, but we won’t.

THIS.

Don’t force an NPC’s motives onto the player character. We hated playing as Treherne’s shadow in the player story and we’re going to hate being Braham’s mum-avenger.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Is Arenanet supposed to cater to the whims of media folk?

Community feedback and “media folk” tend to be bellwethers on the direction a game is headed. When many voices are saying “yo, we’re long time supporters of this game but hey, this thing you’re doing sucks”, companies need to take note. Sure, it might be too late to undo what has been done but these people, and the community at large, having such a bad reaction to a name will make Anet think twice in the future.

People enjoy feeling like a game or company they’re invested in is invested in them, too. Listening and making room for player suggestions goes a long way towards the “player first” experience.

Again, I don’t think there is a point of no return in regards to the name. It’s such a generic label that EVEN if there is voice recordings, they can leave it as is. A person calling my guardian a dragonhunter in a PVE cutsceen is fine… the same way them referring to a Mesmer or an engineer as a dragonhunter would be fine, too. We are, after all, hunting dragons as part of Pact operations.

So yeah, let them call us dragonhunters in voiceovers since it’s fine as a PVE title. Just don’t make us BE a class called dragonhunters.

Cross-posting this…

Harbinger.
Warden.
Warder.
Seeker.
Sentinel.
Arbiter.
Sentry.
Justicar.
Protector.
Templar.
Gallant.
Arclight.
Keeper.
Liberator.
Watcher.
Omen.
Diviner.
Crusader.
Templar.
Inquisitor.
Farlight.

I’m calling it as I see it- The reason we got the name Dragonhunter insead of any of the above was because it’s a poor attempt to give the class a skin-theme where no theme was needed. It’s difficult to come up with skins for a “Warder” or an “Arbiter” or a “Harbinger” so they said “kitten it, dragon theme it.” They then executed this with lackluster bow/glove skins and one (JUST ONE) dragon “themed” skill, Dragon’s Maw, which could’ve just as easily been named “Glint’s Something or Other” or “Devouring Justice” or blahblahblah.

Harbinger.
Warden.
Warder.
Seeker.
Sentinel.
Arbiter.
Sentry.
Justicar.
Protector.
Templar.
Gallant.
Arclight.
Keeper.
Liberator.
Watcher.
Omen.
Diviner.
Crusader.
Templar.
Inquisitor.
Farlight.

I’m calling it as I see it- The reason we got the name Dragonhunter insead of any of the above was because it’s a poor attempt to give the class a skin-theme where no theme was needed. It’s difficult to come up with skins for a “Warder” or an “Arbiter” or a “Harbinger” so they said “kitten it, dragon theme it.” They then executed this with lackluster bow/glove skins and one (JUST ONE) dragon “themed” skill, Dragon’s Maw, which could’ve just as easily been named “Glint’s Something or Other” or “Devouring Justice” or blahblahblah.

Mar.4839:

So the Dragonhunter is the same way, a fanatical hunter that believes in eradicating all things to do with dragons. Y

But I don’t want my guardian to be a “fanatical hunter that believes in eradicating all dragons.” As someone said in another thread, giving a class name “explicit story motivations” is constricting. It forces the PVE story down everyone’s throats- RPers, WVWers, PVPers and even plain old players that just don’t get caught up in the story.

Mordeus.1234:

That’s a good breakdown on how this “high concept” is really limiting to how we choose to play our characters. The very thing that drew me to this game was that it had enough freedom to play or craft your characters to whatever you wanted. I’ve spent a fair amount of time picking out personal story choices, armor skins, etc… for my characters that give way more depth than this “high concept” could.

It’s going to take a rather tortured justification for why my Guardian would become a Dragonhunter and what they’d do once they become one. While I have no problem adapting my Mesmer to the Chronomancer spec because that gives me creative freedom in how I choose to use the new time magic. As far as I know there were no explicit story motivations placed on the Chronomancer?

Perfect phrasing. “Explicit story motivations” is exactly why I am so anti this specialization name. (Well, that, and it’s just as lame as lame can be.)

Ryuu.5608:

Sentinel sounds great to me, but then again, its a personal choice, should we could suggest a name I’d go for that one tho..

We can only hope for ANet to reconsider a name change for a more fitting one.. we can only hope

Considering their stance is “if you don’t like the name dragon hunter, you’re dumb”, a change seems unlikely. But still, it’d be nice to see the community having an impact on the direction of the game.

Jelle.2807:

Gilburt.9146:

I don’t understand why specializations are anything more than a fighting style. A Chronomancer is merely a mage that manipulates time, they don’t by definition have to have any particular goals or ambitions. Why does my guardian, when he chooses to specialize in combat with traps and a longbow, all of a sudden have to adopt new background and ideology that I don’t identify him with?

This right here is important. It’s the reason why

The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions […]* We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept.

Is not such a good idea.

Players get invested in their character and their story is. Picking a name that is not generic enough beyond the playstyle of that specialization will shoehorn their character into a background they did not initially chose. I think big game hunter is very far from what a guardian player chose.

Was also not such a good idea.*

What? Who wouldn’t want to play as these dashing lads? https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

Red Jay.2516:

Alice.5360:

What is everyone’s opinion on Harbinger as the name?

Harbinger of what? Of our extinction? Of our salvation through destruction? Is he beyond our comprehension? Will he assume direct control? How many robotic tentacles will he have?

Questions, questions.

Harbinger of whatever you choose. Harbinger of death to your foes, justice to your allies. Harbinger is basically a cooler, more war-like herald.

Mordeus.1234:

Only problem with the name Harbinger is that it is what the sylvari Malyck was called by the Nightmare Court. It’s possible that the Harbinger plot is going to continue in HoT.

Dragon hunters is what everyone calls the whole pact but that didn’t stop Anet ;D ;D

http://i.imgur.com/sI1SbOl.jpg

What is everyone’s opinion on Harbinger as the name?

If these guards are going to be heavy hitting long-distance openers, Harbinger is the perfect name for that. It also overlaps some of what Anet wanted “hunter” to mean, such as seeking out or heading in advance to lay traps.

Saiyan.1704:

Alice.5360:

Saiyan.1704:

Alice.5360:

Dragon hunter is not this game’s version of Witch-hunter and here’s why:

Witch-hunters are subtle, sly and solo hunters that seek to ferret out witches hidden among seemingly innocent populations. Witches look human and act human and are generally unlimited in number. Witch-hunters are also often portrayed as religious zealouts, acting to protect an ideology and not civilians.

Dragonhunters will never have a way to fit this trope within the Guild Wars setting. For starters, being a solo hunter is directly opposite of the backline support play style this new class has. As for he world itself, dragons are limited in number and there is no real need to “discover them.” Their minions are obvious and not mingling around as civilians. (They’re large remember? That’s why dragon hunters are "big prey hunters lol.) Finally, there’s no religious zealotry.

PS: Here is what a big game hunter is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

Is that what we want Dragonhunter to be?

Big Game Hunter is exactly what they are portraying Dragonhunter as being. Just not as comical as the picture you posted. At this point, the name is being blown way out of proportion.

Do you have another name that better fits the Big Game Hunter rendition?

They’re trying to portray both a big game hunter AND a witch hunter in one go and it’s just not working. Witch hunter makes me think of Van Hellsing. Big Game Hunter makes me think of the villain from Disney’s Tarzan.

I think they need to scrap the entire “hunter” idea and go with something refined. I was behind arbiter but other names have popped up that fit the ticket. Arclight/Archlight was a very strong contender that references the new found range. Other great names were Harbinger and Sentinel and Warder and Bastion and Stalwart and Valkyr and Seeker.

Actually, I quite like Harbinger.

“I’m a Harbinger”
“I’m a Dragonhunter”

Yea, Harbinger sounds better and a lot less argumentative.

If these guards are going to be heavy hitting openers, Harbinger is the perfect name. It also overlaps some of what Anet wanted “hunter” to mean, such as seeking out or heading in advance to lay traps.

Saulot.7259:

….Yes whoosh. I said “I feelI feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them” as in several of the posts on this and other threads there were many references to laziness, unoriginal or stupid which are not constructive and tiresome to read. Making statements for why you do not like the name make perfect sense.

Maybe I made a mistake by calling out one person, his post was just the bottom one and I was agreeing with his statement of how/why he was bringing up his concerns.

So please take a breath and continue using this thread for it’s purpose instead of looking for a fight with someone who is agreeing with you.

Sorry, I reacted very poorly.

Saulot.7259:

Alice.5360:

Saulot.7259:

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

What does “eating up their content” have to do with anything? We are giving feedback and not attacking the devs personally. We don’t have to take everything they give us joyfully though. It is their job, afterall, to make content that is consumed and enjoyed, not just accepted with disdain. You understand this is their job, right? It’s not like we’re criticizing free work done by a street artist for our amusement.

Whoosh.

Nothing “wooshed”. You just didn’t have a very good point. :P Pointing out reasons (lore, aesthetic, archetype mismatch, etc.) we don’t like the name IS feedback, even if you want to pretend it’s useless criticism. We aren’t just sitting around saying “we hate it it sucks change it.” We’re offering explanations of why it’s a bad fit for the class and offering many alternatives.

JNetRocks.3652:

Thanks for posting, Jon. Appreciate the discussion.

My biggest issue with the name is that it implies you are the most and mostly effective against one thing (dragons). Well, what if I’m fighting cows? Or quaggan? Or I’m in SPvP fighting other players? Do I lose some effectiveness? Are other classes not just as capable of fighting dragons as a dragonhunter? Will the dragonhunter have a DPS buff against dragons and dragon minions?

It’s just so specifically tied to just one aspect of the PVE story and to what the class is intended to ‘kill’.

Chronomancer = what mesmers ARE (time controllers, works in any situation)
Druid = what rangers ARE (nature healing shaman types, works in any situation)
Tempest = ? (seems to be what they ARE – weathery storm themed casters)
Dragonhunter = who guardians FIGHT (only works in dragon theme situations)

Anyway… There have been a million brilliant suggestions for creative, lore-appropriate, themeatically nuanced name changes. Honestly just take out the dragon part. Coupla renames and some new bow/gauntlet skins and you’re in business. I would seriously pay your artists myself.

They can use the gloves and bow as a reward for the next dragonbash/festival. At the risk of sounding mean, these class “skins” are not even cool- the Dragon’s Jade bow was a dragon bow done right. Chronomancer got kitten shoulders (easier to fit unique shoulders into an armor set) and a clockshield. Druids get an imposing tree looking staff! Dragonhunters get gloves that don’t match anything and a meh bow that looks better on hunters or warriors.

Slyfer.6478:

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

I hope this higher concept comes to fruition when the expansion releases because currently, for me personally, it’s falling under generic fantasy. I can count on both of my hands in a minute the MMO’s and RPG’s that dwell around a ‘Dragon Knight’, ‘Dragon Priest’, ‘Dragon Hunter’, ‘Dragonborne’ concept – as of right now it comes off as a trope but i hope it will make sense once the expansion comes out and hopefully justifies the name crosses fingers.

For me it’s falling under “lazy fantasy.” :P

Saulot.7259:

I feel like there is a big difference between offering feedback to the development team and outright insulting them while you are still spending time eating up the content that they generated.

A whole lot of option B is going down and it completely dismisses their work.

I am not referring to you Leo G.

What does “eating up their content” have to do with anything? We are giving feedback and not attacking the devs personally. We don’t have to take everything they give us joyfully though. It is their job, afterall, to make content that is consumed and enjoyed, not just accepted with disdain. You understand this is their job, right? It’s not like we’re criticizing free work done by a street artist for our amusement.

Jinn Kazuma.2163:

Calling the spec “Hammerlock” would have been a better option if they want to stick with the big game hunter route.

Sadly, I like that even better than Dragonhunter. Seriously.

MiniEquine.6014:

jbwoodward.4791:

GW2, please take the hint. My vote is for Arbiter. I voted for Arbiter on Reddit, I will vote for it on GW2 Forums and I will forever refer to the “Dragon Hunter” as an Arbiter and encourage the community to do the same. Please don’t make new specialization names so specific. Thank you in advance for a great game, I cannot wait to try the new Arbiter Elite Specialization

This has been brought up too many times to count, but Arbiter literally doesn’t fit what this specialization does. There are better names for it, maybe, but Arbiter is not one of them.

I think they need to scrap the entire “hunter” idea and go with something refined. I was behind arbiter but other names have popped up that fit the ticket. Arclight/Archlight was a very strong contender. So were Harbinger, Sentinel, Warder, Bastion, Stalwart ,Valkyr and Seeker.

Leo G.4501:

The basis of their choice in name was to swap witch with dragon, basically making the dragons corruption the thing that’s evil and needs weeding out. That concept doesn’t work. Dragons are suppose to be forces of nature. Even if they are evil, there is no parallel between fighting heretics and defending your lives from apocalyptic disaster. Not only that but no hunting is necessary. The dragons and it’s minions are hardly hiding. This is a war that had no covert angles for a hunter to stalk.

Also, regarding big game, and hunting, the last thing being paralleled, witch hunts were more like trials or torture not literally picking people off with guns or bows. The only thing left is the big game thing. It makes no sense a Guardian would seek to do this. Purify corruption perhaps but that isn’t big game where you’re pulling down these targets because they’re big (ie their hides). All in all the connections are very loose and other options would be better.

Anet, I implore you to just make up a name that isn’t a word like the French Draconnier, and make the meaning and context for it you desire rather than attempt to go for a lofty conceptual name from existing words.

Hehehehe, “lofty conceptual name.” When that phrase is applied to “dragonhunter” it feels like such a sarcastic dig. I love it.

So very hipster of them to pretend “dragonhunter” is anything other than a desperate attempt at a poorly executed theme.

AND YES: right there with you. Dragons aren’t innately ‘evil’ and the “varying shades of morality” is one of the things that made the GW universe so awesome. Dragons are /destructive/ to the world, sure, but as evident by Glint, calling all dragons “evil demons” is ridiculous. And look at the Pale Tree! Should dragon hunters train their hunting scopes on her, too? She’s dragon-adjacent so let’s purge her I guess…. /s

Saiyan.1704:

Alice.5360:

Dragon hunter is not this game’s version of Witch-hunter and here’s why:

Witch-hunters are subtle, sly and solo hunters that seek to ferret out witches hidden among seemingly innocent populations. Witches look human and act human and are generally unlimited in number. Witch-hunters are also often portrayed as religious zealouts, acting to protect an ideology and not civilians.

Dragonhunters will never have a way to fit this trope within the Guild Wars setting. For starters, being a solo hunter is directly opposite of the backline support play style this new class has. As for he world itself, dragons are limited in number and there is no real need to “discover them.” Their minions are obvious and not mingling around as civilians. (They’re large remember? That’s why dragon hunters are "big prey hunters lol.) Finally, there’s no religious zealotry.

PS: Here is what a big game hunter is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

Is that what we want Dragonhunter to be?

Big Game Hunter is exactly what they are portraying Dragonhunter as being. Just not as comical as the picture you posted. At this point, the name is being blown way out of proportion.

Do you have another name that better fits the Big Game Hunter rendition?

They’re trying to portray both a big game hunter AND a witch hunter in one go and it’s just not working. Witch hunter makes me think of Van Hellsing. Big Game Hunter makes me think of the villain from Disney’s Tarzan.

I think they need to scrap the entire “hunter” idea and go with something refined. I was behind arbiter but other names have popped up that fit the ticket. Arclight/Archlight was a very strong contender that references the new found range. Other great names were Harbinger and Sentinel and Warder and Bastion and Stalwart and Valkyr and Seeker.

I posted this imagined rework of the Dragonhunter announcement to prove how easy a name change rectifies bows and traps with the guardian paradigm.

…

…

…

Meet the Arbiter: Guardian’s Elite Specialization

Welcome, friends. I’m Alice, and today we’ll be talking about the guardian’s new elite specialization: the arbiter—a virtuous defender that specializes in ranged combat and back-line support.

Staying true to the base class, these wielders of light have mobilized in the war against the dragons, ready to bring justice to their foes and solace to their allies! With an emphasis on range and mobility, we feel the arbiter brings a style of play previously lacking from the guardian.

…

thisstuffaboutvirtuesandbowswasfine

…

Supremacy through Insight

Favor in battle can often be determined by foresight and preparation, and arbiters will be able to manifest light-based magical traps that will activate when an enemy runs over them. By carefully setting the stage with a variety of new traps, the arbiter can direct the flow of battle from a distance. Judgment is passed when foes advance over the traps, bringing devastating conditions to the unworthy. Tread carefully, enemies of Tyria…or face the verdict of the arbiter and their elite Glint’s Revelation.

Advancing Forward

Guardians will find that the new elite specialization gives them access to some conditions and functionality normally reserved for professions of a more physical nature. They’ll gain a bit of innate mobility, while the ability to cripple or bleed enemies will become an option through their elite specialization traits. One of their elite specialization traits is Rending Light, which will enable all varieties of traps to bleed enemies. Whether taking on the masses or a single enemy, the arbiter is a force to be reckoned with.

Sharpen your justice. Dust off your resolve. Brace your courage. Guardians—the arbiter approaches. See you on the battlefield.

I must be as relentless as justice itself.

Disclaimer: A name change, a skill name change, and a bit of rewording is all it takes to bring the new elite in line with current guardian expectations. I don’t care if they change the name to arbiter. All I want is a name change that puts the “guardian” back in the guardian’s elite specialization. Replace arbiter with Harbinger or Warder or any of the others and change the bit about judgment to fit the name-flavour to get an idea for how those names would sound.

Craywulf.5793:

No offense intended, but Jon Peter’s explanation did not convince me one iota. I am not seeing any legitimacy in his explanation. In fact his answer only compounded the rationality of such generic name. There’s absolutely no sophistication or “high concept”. This was clearly a bad choice whether Jon wants to admit it or not.

Honestly I think the Paragon name would’ve been the safest choice. It might have even appeased older GW1 fans.

i think his justification was actually pretty patronizing/borderline insulting. It was basically “if you don’t like it, it’s because you don’t get it because it’s too complex for you.” Ick.

Someone tossed out Arclight a while back. I was solidly in the arbiter camp but I think Arclight/Archlight works very well considering the bow….

Dragon hunter is not this game’s version of Witch-hunter and here’s why:

Witch-hunters are subtle, sly and solo hunters that seek to ferret out witches hidden among seemingly innocent populations. Witches look human and act human and are generally unlimited in number. Witch-hunters are also often portrayed as religious zealouts, acting to protect an ideology and not civilians.

Dragonhunters will never have a way to fit this trope within the Guild Wars setting. For starters, being a solo hunter is directly opposite of the backline support play style this new class has. As for he world itself, dragons are limited in number and there is no real need to “discover them.” Their minions are obvious and not mingling around as civilians. (They’re large remember? That’s why dragon hunters are "big prey hunters lol.) Finally, there’s no religious zealotry.

PS: Here is what a big game hunter is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

Is that what we want Dragonhunter to be?

Srolo.5208:

Arnath.2319:

Srolo.5208:

Harvest.2506:

Srolo.5208:

Snip.

I said I would rather have Witch Hunter if they want to go that route with Hunter, someone on the HOT post is suggesting DivineHunter now which is something I would also be alright with.

What childish Mindset are you talking about? If you are using other games as a comparision those with dragon in their class names are related in some way to dragons. We know its a unified force of multi talented people fighting the dragons, and their spawn. But there is no clear rivalry that designates a guardian with longbow as the clear hunter of dragons that is better at it than the over classes.

It actually Cheapens the value to say this Guardian is specializing as a Dragon Hunter, when you have a clear Chronomancer, Druid, and Tempest. Now you’ve probably never studied language or history to my extent, but you shouldn’t need to in order to see that calling this Dragonhunter sounds like a 2nd rate pedestrian in comparison.

I’ll say it again because I’m sure people are just going to skim through it…A holy warrior SPECIALIZING in hunting the Dragons and their minions. The other classes don’t have SPECIALIZATIONS named things like that because the other classes aren’t SPECIALIZING in hunting and killing the Dragons and their minions from a lore standpoint. The “Holy Warriors” e.g. Guardians are. There’s a difference between fighting and killing something out of necessity, and actively wanting to. .

So where is my 10% damage buff when fighting dragons?
Where in our skills or traits do we get an advantage over every other profession in fighting dragons?
That is the ONLY way the name “Dragon Hunter” will work, if we are going to specialise in hunting down and killing these dragons then lore wise and gameplay wise we need a distinct advantage over every other profession.

Try reading my post again then get back to me. I’ve already answered everything you’ve just typed out there. Thanks for showing you’re either trying to selectively use things to further your own opinion/agenda or you don’t care enough to read somebody’s entire post. If it’s the latter then you’ve completely discredited yourself and I’ll refrain from even acknowledging yours in the future.

Why should my pve/spvp Guardian be forced to “specialize” into some spec named after a PVE threat?

And again, no- nothing about the new spec makes the guardian feel like it is “specialized in killing dragons” other than the name. That’s in. The skills all reference hunting prey, not dragons.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

Christ that is terrible reasoning. “Other generic names”. What could be more generic than “Dragonhunter”? And there is NOTHING subtle or nuanced about “Dragonhunter.”

There is absolutely nothing about this name that evokes imagery of witch-hunters and the fact they have to come out and defend the name proves it’s a terrible name. Additionally, the description of “big game hunter” doesn’t mesh with witch hunting either!

On top of this, it’s insulting that he defends the name by pretending it’s somehow hard to grasp… as if it’s a mature concept that escapes us. NO, no it’s not Mr. Peters. There is nothing “high concept” about this…. and there’s nothing highbrow about the name or difficult to get. In fact, it’s quite “lowbrow” that you’re going with the generic “dragons r evil” route. Previously, the lore held that dragons were akin to forces of nature; part of the natural cycle of magic in Tyria. Would we have Tornadohunters? Earthquakehunters?

You are dumbing down the lore and ruining the Guardian archtype by pigeonholing it into the current PVE story in one fell swoop.

Do the right thing and change the name.

Nike.2631:

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

Christ that is terrible reasoning. “Other generic names”. What could be more generic than “Dragonhunter”? And there is NOTHING subtle or nuanced about “Dragonhunter.”

There is absolutely nothing about this name that evokes imagery of witch-hunters and the fact they have to come out and defend the name proves it’s a terrible name. Additionally, the description of “big game hunter” doesn’t mesh with witch hunting either!

On top of this, it’s insulting that he defends the name by pretending it’s somehow hard to grasp… as if it’s a mature concept that escapes us. NO, no it’s not Mr. Peters. There is nothing “high concept” about this…. and there’s nothing highbrow about the name or difficult to get. In fact, it’s quite “lowbrow” that you’re going with the generic “dragons r evil” route. Previously, the lore held that dragons were akin to forces of nature; part of the natural cycle of magic in Tyria. Would we have Tornadohunters? Earthquakehunters?

Also, the dragon cycle is as old as time itself in Tyria. If dragon hunters were going to exist, they would already.

“The Elder Dragons are ancient, powerful beings of unknown origins. They keep the magic balanced by consuming it and drawing it into themselves; though indications show that this isn’t their goal or intention, but rather a side-effect of how they function. Every several thousand years (roughly 10,000 years according to the Durmand Priory), the dragons wake and consume everything in the world, thereby reducing the world to a low level of magic, before going back to sleep. Then the magic they have consumed bleeds out into the world, harmless unlike when they’re awake, only for the dragons to eventually awaken once more and the cycle to begin again.

Their most recent awakening had major effects on the races of Tyria, in many cases forcing them from their homelands and cutting them off from the rest of the world. Though each of the individual races has tried to deal with the threat largest to themselves, they remain on a defensive. To this end, three multi-racial orders have individually taken it upon themselves to find a solution to the dragons.

Ancient jotun stelae indicate that throughout prehistory, the Elder Dragons have gone through cycles of awakening, destruction, and hibernation, each time ending an era of life in Tyria and bringing forth a new one. As contact with other continents has been severed, it is not known whether or not the Elder Dragons are unique to the continent of Tyria. However, the records surviving from the previous cycle mention only six dragons. "

Dragons aren’t covertly hiding like witches. Witch hunting was hard because they looked like normal people and there were many of them. Dragons? They’re limited in number and pretty apparent. Plus, they told us we are big game hunters, not… covert investigator things.

Also, dragons aren’t evil. They just /are./ They absorb magic, wake, and retire. They’re more like forces of nature than evil.

And backline? Well, that’s how they framed the class, not me. It’s even in the release notes. :P

I absolutely still agree the name and theme don’t work. At all.

Dragons aren’t like witches so all these comparisons to witch hunters are silly.

Dragonhunters are back line support, not hunters tracking prey.

We are all dragon hunters.

We get a themed bow gloves and terribly animated elite. That is the only tie in to dragons. The armor and bow can be unequipped. The dragon elite can stay but be renamed. Whatever, doesn’t bother me.

Both the dragon and the hunting part of the name could be easily changed or a new name could be found. There are tons of great suggestions floating around.

“Big game hunter” =/= “witch hunter” either so them back peddling and saying that was an inspiration is just… wrong. Big game hunter = men with high vis vests and rifles killing for sport.

Dragonhunters are no better at hunting dragons than others. Bows and traps do not make a hunter or rangers would be called hunters.

People already confuse rangers with hunters.

Finally, and I can not stress this enough, forcing us to become Dragonhunters because of Braham’s vow to avenge his mum is treading down the same path of mistakes the personal story did. Let us carve our own path. By all means, let the poor sod teach us but don’t make us all go off to hunt dragons by name because he has a gripe with them. PVP and WVWs will never see a single dragon, let alone hunt one.

Any name other than Dragonhunter honestly.

We’re not big game hunters.

This is a big game hunter: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2013/05/big-game-cameron.jpg

Shiki.7148:

anduriell.6280:

Disappointing very disappointing. The skills are meh another one with traps that are proven within the other classes that have no real use.
I would like the spec for the guardian to had been something like taking the class a knot further in its own design the same as chronomancer (that’s why we think is great, is taking the mesmer skills and lore a little further).

With the guard they simply took a warrior class and cramped inside the guardian. Instead having more skills about direct effects with light and divinity (aren’t we guards after all?) we get the traps (WTF?) because we know the guard is prone to traps and sthealth. Is within its lore and we all know that [/oh the irony]

Or… you could shut up until you actually know how the skills work after todays ready-up? It is not like they explained any skills besides the heal-trap, and even that one was rather vague.

Let’s get off the topic of traps until we see how it plays out. for now, continue pitchforking over the uninspired name. As Ten Ton Hammer put it:

“My issue with this is that the term itself is what all heroes of Tyria are currently doing. We’re all hunting dragons in an effort to protect the world and yet a guardian and all subsequent guardians now share this highly specific and slightly unimaginative title. It would be like calling the necromancer specialization Vinehunter because one killed Marjory’s sister.”

RabbitUp.8294:

Alice.5360:

RabbitUp.8294:

Ojyh.9842:

Arbiter sounds better and actually makes sense for this spec while keeping the link with the Guardian.

I’ve never seen a judge or a referee wielding a bow and laying down traps.

Everything is open to change. I smashed this together in just a few mins. I’d be lying if a bit of inspiration didn’t come from here: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Archadian_Judges

But hey, change the name to sentinel. Traps are the sharp-eyed way a Guardian wards off foes from afar. … etc. etc.

If Anet picks a better name, a better theme will present itself than “I KILL DRAGONS”

Do you want a thematically fitting name? Seeker

I’m fine with that: “Seeker of Truth and Justice” etc etc. Fits the theme. Replace Arbiter with seeker in my starting post, reword a few bits about judgment and bam. Meet the Seeker.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Is there ever a time that anyone will see the name?

Party? Icon. PvP? Icon. WvW? Icon. PvP? Icon.

Much ado about nothing.

The name sets the tempo. Call us dragonhunters now and down the line we’ll stray even father from the origin idea of the guardian. I agree the name rarely presents itself in-game but the poor naming places the specialization on a path of deviation and disappointment. I don’t want my Guardian to be limited to basically being a nondescript, lackluster ranger with skills that don’t harken back to our core.

RabbitUp.8294:

Ojyh.9842:

Arbiter sounds better and actually makes sense for this spec while keeping the link with the Guardian.

I’ve never seen a judge or a referee wielding a bow and laying down traps.

Everything is open to change. I smashed this together in just a few mins. I’d be lying if a bit of inspiration didn’t come from here: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Archadian_Judges

But hey, change the name to sentinel. Traps are the sharp-eyed way a Guardian wards off foes from afar. … etc. etc.

If Anet picks a better name, a better theme will present itself than “I KILL DRAGONS”

WGuardian.1028:

Mordeus.1234:

…..
- Mesmers have some time magic therefore they expand upon it with the Chronomancer.
- Rangers have some nature magic therefore they expand upon it with the Druid.
- Elementalists have some weather based magic therefore they expand upon it with the Tempest.

It’s a bit awkward to say that Guardians protect by killing monsters which can be considered hunting therefore they expand upon it by becoming Dragonhunters, also Dragons are things they can hunt. It just doesn’t have the clarity of the other specializations.

This quote is from other thread.

For me the only good reason why Guardian’s name don’t follow this pattern is lore (about Braham taking Eir’s bow and hunting dragons to revenge). And it’s good enough reason and if other proffesions will get something like that in future then i support the new Dragonhunter but it’s still out of the line with other names (“Hold The LIne”). Need to see what Anet have to say in Ready-up today.

But if it’s not why not call it Arclight (as Archer with light powers that he use while shooting and to lay traps [name of hero from other game]) or name can reflect inner power of guardians: Judgment or Retribution (both of wich will fully support the lore part about Braham and will be more suitable for guardians and still don’t go against traps).

Arclight… now that’s a cool name!!!!