Guild Wars 2

^ Yes, what you said. I know LB ranger has the rep of being a one button class and I guess that is true on face value- it did have one heavy hitting attack. On a deeper level, though, that one button was pretty complex: were you in the right position to get combos? Were you able to do something to buff you prior to hitting it? Were you as max range as you could be or as elevated as possible? Was your pet in position? Which target was the best to hit? Were you watching the battlefield so you knew they couldn’t dodgeroll or a theif wasn’t about to sneak in and interrupt your one-hit-wonder?

*That one button press had a lot of setup behind it- it was a high-stake game where we put all of our chips in. *

Some people might not have enjoyed the playstyle but, for me, it was fantastic. I know my presence on an SPVP map made a difference and it was when I was going all Legolas-mode that I felt the most ranger-y. I didn’t just use the bow, I /was/ the bow. ;P

Anyway, drifting back on topic, as Anduriell said, RF was not any more op than spin-to-win or backstab. It was just a moderate high damage spell that had plenty of counters. Other classes were (and are) better at pve and pvp dmg output so it’s not like they instituted the nerfs to bring us into line with other classes’ dmg-per-buttonpress.

LughLongArm.5460:

Yesterday I watched a streaming ranger on twitch, I think his name was skullforce(he also posts alot on the forum). He was using power build with LB/GS and did an amazing work.

Thanks for the tip! Most of the streams I stopped by were people having fun with the healing bug (heh) or trying out the trap changes so I didn’t know if any had returned to LB shenanigans. I’ll def go watch and take note.

Chokolata.1870:

I am using LB with sword/axe or GS with full on defensive traits.

LB sigils of fire and air, sword/axe or GS with battle and energy

Oakheart, shared anguish, wilderness knowledge, instinctual reaction, evasive purity, protective ward, GftE, wilting strike or GS mastery, zephyr speed. Wolf and spider. Works great. Marauder amulet, runes of the traveler

How is your TTK compared to other classes? Are you finding yourself effed if you miss stacking the buffs from petswap? I was thinking that the whole spec might be finely tuned to needing pet-swap buffs but that seems counter inventive sometimes because like, if my spider is in position for a takedown, I don’t want to swap him out for my secondary wolf who then has to lop over to the target.

anduriell.6280:

But still you can use LB and a melee weapon of your choice.
I don’t see why you shouldn’t use LB having in mind that could output a decent amount of damage (decent is not great thou).
And also you can use it to catch up with those that like to run away when the things get hairy. Ranger does not have any teleport/blink, and our swoop (GS) is only 900 units.
That LB could give you that couple of shots to down’em for good.

With condi-necros pumping out high and fast debuffs and thieves being able to kill within the span of a GCD, the bow- and the builds needed to make bows decent instead of mediocre- offers no real draw. There’s many drawbacks to running LB and no real benefit. “You can hit from a bit further away than any other class” means hardly anything when that damage is lowered and baseline stats are higher than previously. That extra range might have bought us 2-3k burst damage before, now it gets us 1k.

Now I might just be a bit sore, but it seems like they took ranger from 3 viable builds- trapper, condi, powerbow- to two. Condi and traps were already pretty decent (I have three rangers, one of each spec) but LB was the most unique and fun for my style of play and it’s sad to see that longbows, which currently only are used by two classes, are on the out. The melee playstyle of rangers now is no different than any other mid-to-short range class.

Queen Jennah’s dress is not pictured (I know you said it wasn’t a complete list) but Ithink it deserves mentioning! There is a new NPC in LA wearing it but in different colors. It’s lovely.

Kodama.6453:

But the weapon has to be balanced around its range because it is an unique advantage it provides to rangers only.

I get that it is a unique advantage but I think that the unique advantage is lost in the current state of the game. Having 300 extra range means very little when our damage is decreased significantly and other classes are going from full-glass to condi-bunker. It’s also very VERY rare that any competent opponent will stand at max range for us o that range advantage is fleeting while the nerf is permanently crippling.

I’d rather have the previous dmg modifiers and nerfed range.

nacario.9417:

We also have to factor in that everyone has more survivability now, that would also worl against the dmg potential somehow. Lb was always a fragile wep to begin with; pew pew rangers were never any good solo node defenders, and now its worse. Give it some time tho to see how everything else pans out, if its the same in a month id say reroll or change wep build

Thank you for such the kind feedback. I was expecting people to be all “lol lern2play power-n00b”. Instead, you gave me some great insight while keeping my expectations reasonable.

I do hope they make bows a bit better- make flanking and maybe even elevation give us larger bonuses perhaps.. or make our aoe better or… well, something that both ups the damage and moves it beyond the 1-button-smash. Longbow Ranger was a beautiful and unique playstyle (long-range divebomb harasser) and it’d be a great loss for the game if it becomes utterly nonviable.

nacario.9417:

One factor imo is that everyone elses dmg output has gone up, so that the moment of oppurtunity is smaller. Having that ranged advantaged is therefore no longer much benefit.

Yeah, time-to-kill is insanely low at the moment. It was in a good spot before and now it’s one team or the other spending most of their time dead. :\

This is a shame. My legendary is the bow but, because of its lack of classes and my distaste for playing hambow, spvp ranger was the only time I really got to use it. :\

Instead of making LB less viable, I wish they had diversified the damage. It was irritating to be laughed at as being a 1-button-spec but, instead of fixing that, anet seems to have just nerfed it to bits.

With the changes to damage output, the increased range of LB no longer seems to justify its inclusion in power based play. Am I overlooking something? I’m running traits as close to the original power-bow build as I can to test it out and am having a hell of a time killing condi builds and countering thieves. Prior to the patch I could get some great duels in with both and never felt OP or underpowered… the duel came down to who had the better rotation and reactions.

EDIT: I know that ranger =/= ranged specialist but I always associated the Longbow with being the iconic weapon of the class, especially considering only Warriors and Rangers can use it.

I can not post pics of them because they might get removed, buyt a guy on redit datamind a beautiful shield, a torch and the skins for the Reaper GS. In addition to those items and the shield we’ve seen Chronomancers get and the tree staff druids get, Dragonhunters got shafted with the tacky dragon bow and lambchop-eque glove. Go look at the other advanced classes swag and you’ll see the difference in care.

Wayward Muse.6825:

Some cities have an “old town” section that are medieval, colonial or whatever time period was around when the city was founded. Lion’s Arch could also have an “old town” section with crafting and vendors that is one can gain to entry with a pass bought in the gem store. It could be kind of like that section in Divinity’s Reach that requires a pass to enter.

This wouldn’t interfere with the timeline, as it’s not uncommon for cities to have an old section of town, and people who like the look of Lion’s Arch before it was destroyed can visit a tiny part of it.

That would be a really lovely compromise and a creative solution!

Mosharn.8357:

The new Lions arch feels a bit too spacious. It feels really empty at certain places but over all I do like the art style of this along with the older gw2 art style.

The lack of a lion fountain in the plaza is really sad. It’s so empty and lifeless.

As a bonus consideration- the fact that they still have old LA present in the LS gives me hope that this suggestion isn’t beyond reach. The data is there, just let us enter it with our toons!

Ayrilana.1396:

Alice.5360:

Ayrilana.1396:

Didn’t they change the personal story instances to now use the older maps?

As mentioned in the PS part of my OP, Old LA is featured in personal stories did but personal stories are not repeatable so my toons can not return. Even if they could, however, the instances set in old LA are not the same as the city. As you probably know from your quests, the “map” is just a small fragment of the whole, not explorable and lacking interaction.

If that ends up being the best they can offer, I’d take it. It’s not an ideal solution but I can’t complain.

Yeah. I made a suggestion to allow players to replay those story steps like we can for all of LS season 2. I figured after that then someone could suggest that they extend the story area in the LA instance to include the whole map.

Ayrilana.1396:

Didn’t they change the personal story instances to now use the older maps?

As mentioned in the PS part of my OP, Old LA is featured in personal stories did but personal stories are not repeatable so my toons can not return. Even if they could, however, the instances set in old LA are not the same as the city. As you probably know from your quests, the “map” is just a small fragment of the whole, not explorable and lacking interaction.

Taxidriver.2043:

they should bring the old one back as 2nd overflow

Now that WOULD be confusing. People trying to just go to new LA and ending up in old LA instead of New LA Overflow would be like “wut?”

But thank you, I forgot what overflow was called. I was calling it “shards.” Oops.

People are concerned that splitting the population between a New and Old LA would make it feel empty but remember, we already have multiple overflows. Even if just one Overflow was replaced by Old LA (which you could only enter if you chose to), there’d not be a change to how populated the game feels.

Donari.5237:

I’m fine with not having access to the old version any more but have no deep feelings one way or the other. I’m responding to one part, though: the DR and Airship passes don’t split the player base because when you’re in one of those you’re still in the surrounding zone’s map chat. Since maps are big enough you can’t directly see everyone anyway, the fact that someone’s in one of those doesn’t impact your participating in discussion with them, and they can hop out reasonably fast if there are map events to deal with.

:) Then perhaps they could have a shared map chat between the two instances?

Even if not, remember that LA is often split into various shards already. There’s no difference between 4 versions of LA and 3 of LA and one of Old LA.

Great reply, Crimson Clouds.4853 and thanks for your insights! They were all very well thought out. Here are my responses:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Here are some reasons why I don’t think old LA should be accessible:

-Results in splitting the community, many will buy the pass and regularly disappear off to a different version of LA. New LA instances will be less populated.

So do the Airship’s Pass and the Terrace Pass. Also, remember that the population is already split between shards very frequently. There’s no difference between 4 versions of Lion’s Arch and 3 of Lion’s Arch and one of Old Lion’s Arch.

-Doesn’t make sense lore-wise. The only tech I can think of that would allow this would be Fractal Technology, but I don’t think this extends further than that lab.

The entrance can technically be in Dessa’s lab the same way the entrance to the Airship is technically Gendaran fields.

-Similarly, I don’t think A-net want to confuse timeline more than they can avoid. It affects the overall “feel” of the game.

They’ve already botched that terribly. I stopped playing for while when the story was in the middle of Frost and Flame. When I came back, nothing made sense. I didn’t even attempt to do any living world events until I could purchase the entirity of Season Two. I was put out when I did, however, because “who the hell are these people and where is Destiny’s Edge? QQ” i don’t think Old LA would be any more confusing than the Uncatagorized Fractal or the ones with Scarlett.

-Building on this, devs have made a point in adding large, meaningful, permanent changes to the world to improve immersion and empathy for the cause. Adding the ability to access old LA could undermine the response achieved from rebuilding it. If there is anything similar to this in the future, a large response would be “I don’t really care, we still will be able to access the previous version anyway…”

Too much change and no one cares about the world either. As mentioned above, I don’t give a rat’s kitten about Rox or Braham because I didn’t have Season One to grow to know them.

I DO agree that loss can be a way of making people care more but after Season One people are fatigued. So many experiences and items that have been permanently removed that their loss feels more like a gimmick than anything… like Arenanet is making it all “HEY THIS MIGHT LEAVE AT ANY MOMENT SO YOU HAVE TO LOG IN NOW.”

I don’t think they’d keep Old LA inaccessible because of qualms about wanting us to ‘experience the now’. Rather, I think they justify event and item removals using that ‘live in the moment’ mantra while, in reality, they are just creating an artificial scarcity and the rat race that coincides. They do it with the BLTC… why wouldn’t you believe they do it in other aspects of their games?

-I’m not sure how technically possible this would be. Currently, everything is placed on the map somewhere. Where would the old LA be stored?

Far off the viewable edge, the same way the fractal maps are stored.

-Considering that it would be another very large map to maintain, it could be costly for them. Bugs will happen on such a map, just like everywhere else. Is it worth their while?

It’s no different than adding another zone. They are maintaining Rata Sum and DR and all that just fine. It’s actually BETTER than adding another zone because the whole area has been QAed. It was in live for two years and the bugs have already been fixed. It;s not like it’s a brand new battleground map with potential game-breaking exploits.

Suggestion Overview

Don’t get me wrong, the new Lion’s Arch is nice, but it’s too clean; I miss gritty, pirate-built LA. Luckily, the game-world has the amazing, inexplicable Mist and players can access fragments of the past… Using this mechanic, it’s no a far leap to present the old Lion’s Arch as existing in a stabilized mist pocket and the pass as a certificate that declares us fit for travel. It’d operate like the Airship or Royal Terrace pass but take us to an instance of Old LA, complete with vendors and the rest.

It seems implementation of this is straightforward and is basically adding back in a zone that is already built and quality tested and known to be a real crowd-pleaser. I think the beautiful work of old LA, and all the seasonal decorations for Halloween and Wintersday, deserve to be showcased, even if behind a gemstore paywall.

Demographics interested in purchasing these passes:

- People that enjoy exclusive zones.

- People that collect items and have the other two passes.

- People that skipped the other two passes because they didn’t seem to provide enough bang for the buck.

- Old players that miss the city. (Pow! Right in the nostalgia!)

- New players that never got to see splendid Old LA.

- RPers, who were told years ago that devs were looking into ways to allow access to empty instances for RP, would buy this pass even if they had never bought the prior passes because a city offers an RP backdrop that a condensed and convenient banking/trading/selling/Mysticforging area does not.

- Socialites that live the entirety of their social life in game and want a change of venue.

- Lore buffs that want all the lore.

Precedent:

A few might thing it is bad form to sell to us what was once free but consider: Arenanet repackaged and sold us Living Story Season 2. Initially, this content was provided for free before expiring and become pay-to-play. There was no significant backlash from the community. In fact, people are often clamoring for Season One to be released in a similar manner. It seems the community understands that this is a game but also a business and offers a fair exchange: we give the devs money if the devs give us what we want.

Voices of opposition:

Some people will never be happy and believe they are getting the short end of the stick. They will say that PVP or PVE needs focus more than fluff. To those detractors I reassure them that this is not a pressing suggestion; just something that I’d like to see implemented long-term… and quite likely by a different set of people than the ones working on balance or PVE mechanics.

Others will believe there is no market for the item but let me remind them of the true name of GuildWars— FashionWars. (:P) This game is about looks and experiences much more than it is about utility; a “pass to the past” might not make you kill faster or look cooler but so what? People pay to go on vacations IRL and those serve no purpose other than a change of scenery.

—
PS: Yes, I know we can visit a sepia-colored version of LA in our personal stories but personal story instances are not the same as the real deal. They’re segments, lacking the soul and decorations of LA… and, unless they changed it, personal story is not repayable.

If you think Dragonhunters got a fair shake, look at these images:

Dragon hunter: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/f4d76Glamor-1.jpg

Druid: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/179625/Druid_shoulders.jpg

Reaper: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/bc1afGlamor-1.jpg

Chronomancer: http://totallygamergirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_chronmancer_02.jpg

Druid, Reaper, Chronomancer all capture the essence of the class and provide stylistically complementary weapon and gear pieces. The teams that developed them had a clear image they wanted to represent.

Dragonhunter, on the other hand, is sold as a big-game-hunter, given a bow that is back line support, kitted-out in two laughably dull dragon-pieces, and then spun by the community managers as a zealous “witch hunter”. It’s all over the place!

Anyway, with the images of Braham and Eir’s bow, it’s quite clear Anet is making us dragonhunters because Braham is a guardian and he has a bone to pick with Mordermoth. It’s fine if they want Kasmeer and Majory and Rytlock to be the “exemplars” of other classes but not every class needs to follow they Destiny Edge counterpart. It’s bad, contrived storytelling and it is trying to shoehorn a popular class into a role that doesn’t fit it.

PS: One final image to leave you all with.
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-guardian-elite-specialization-teaser.jpg

The image above is what hyped everyone: it’s an image of a specialized guardian, nothing more or less. No dragon theme.

(And as a tiny grievance, the colors are even right in the teaser image whereas dragonhunter was revealed in shades of… copper?)

Kury.8210:

Think we can get a “savant” class?

Doesn’t really matter what game. I’ve always disliked classes solely defined by what they killed. I’m fine with an order named after what they kill, particularly if the game is entirely about getting rid of that particular foe. However, it makes little sense if they’re regularly killing beasties not in their résumé. Makes even less sense if the name belongs to one of many classes all striving to eradicate this one particular type of nasty.

I can live with a name or two I dislike. Not gonna stop me from enjoying a good gripe though.

-insert man beating horse-
-insert horse eating beats-
-insert dragon in band with horse bone drumsticks-

Too true. Most people aren’t on about the hutner part of the name.We don’t seem to like it but it’s whatever. It’s the highly specific DRAGONhunter “go get your big game” class theme that’s wretched.

Since I’m already whinging, I’s insult to injury that this crap name robs us of a cool weapon (druid staff, necro gs, chrono shield) and armor(chronomancer shoulder, necro hood). All we get is a “dragon” bow which is out dragon-ed any day of the week by the Jade Dragon bow and a glove that looks like a muppet. They’re basically dragonbash rejects.

Rytlok is the first Revenant and the Revs follow in his footsteps.
Marjory is the first reaper and the Necros learn from her.
Whatshername is the first Chronomancer and the Mesmers learn from her.

The “primary” of each class sets the tone and it’s pretty clear Braham is the Dragonhunter primary. The unfortunate thing is that dragonhunting is SO specific, especially when paired with the fact the developers really stressed the “big game hunter!” aspect of the class (it’s even in the traitline several times) that there’s no other way to interpret the class name: Braham is hunting down the dragon the whole advanced class is pinned to do that, too.

It wouldn’t be so bad except that this theme is so very clearly tacked on at the last second. None of the actual LB or trap skills have anything to do with hunting dragons and the class is no better AT hunting dragons. Dragon’s Maw, the elite, can kinda squeak by as “ok… that’s dragon themed I guess” but why are we hunting dragons with a dragon skinned elite that could’ve easily been graphically skinned as ANYTHING else.

It is confirmed that Braham picls up Eir’s bow and becomes the Dragonhunter. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a7rfu/i_guess_we_were_right_about_braham_becoming_a/

This alone is enough reason to change the class name. i don’t want an NPC’s motives forced on my player toon!

Arrk.4102:

It’s not Dragon Hunter, it’s Dragonhunter.
And if renaming won’t change anything why complain about it?

And that lack of space makes it all the worse somehow. Dragon hunter is bad. Dragonhunter is worse.

I can’t believe they locked and deleted lots of posts from the prior threads about the bad Dragonhunter name

(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Liked-the-ready-up-name-still-doesn-t-fit/page/12#post5085338)

There’s tons of good suggestions in there.

Archlight is a nice one but my vote is honestly “anything other than what we got.”

Obtena.7952:

Finally, I think if people didn’t have such a fixation on what THEY think a Guardian should be and look at how the tools are coming together, we would be seeing suggestions for names like “Predator”, or “Stalker”, or “Trapper”. Yes, these names suck because I just thought of them on the spot but they are WAY more closely aligned to the idea that Anet has for the elite spec than any other name I have seen yet. People want to force their own ideas of what a Guardian is and they are doing it by protesting the name.

The thing is, the players are the audience of an MMO. The game has to, to some degree, cater to them or it looses their attention. It is important that the idea of the guardian is true to what the players desire, not just allowing Anet to get what Anet wants.

See Anet, this isn’t jut blowing over. It’s a bad name and time to “adjust” isn’t making us any less angsty over it.

The fact we have over 30 pages combined discussing the name and a dev response trying to justify it proves Dragonhunter is a bad name.

It looks like a hand puppet in the style of a dragon Lampchops….

Obtena.7952:

I’m willing (and I bet Anet is as well) to have a reasonable discussion about name changes if the reasoning isn’t nonsensical. Do you consider thematic inconsistencies based on a short video and a press released a sensible reason to undo and redo work? I don’t. I don’t think people should move on … if they can stop hammering such a weak argument for name change. So far, it’s all I’ve seen.

I get it, the name isn’t particularly cool or inspiring and the best people can think of to justify changing it is nitpicking a few teasers.

It’s not just the release blurb and video. “Big Game Hunter” ‘s in the trait line itself! And dragons aren’t even referenced at all!

To paraphrase Genesis.8572:
Only three of the twelve traits directly references hunting (Hunter’s Determination, Hunter’s Fortification, and Big Game Hunter), and only one kinda alludes to dragons- Big Game Hunter.
“This specialization lacks a clear, unifying sense of thematic focus and cohesion as demonstrated in their trait names, particularly when compared to the chronomancer. Most of the trait names do not evoke dragon-hunting or dragons, but generic guardian names.”

Black Box.9312:

I think the reason why people are so insistent on the name being changed over any gripes about the spec itself is because the mechanics are more likely to be set in stone than just a simple set of text.

This.

We know we can’t undo traps and bows and, in fact, a large majority of us are excited about bows and ok with traps.

It’s the name and the massive deviation from the guardian archetype that we loathe. It is a massive step in the wrong direction and if we don’t speak now, Anet will likely take further steps in the wrong direction. We didn’t want lore where dragons were strictly evil. We didn’t want lore where we’re pigeonholed into following the NPCs’ choices and morality. We didn’t want a specialization that is so limited in scope from the very core.

We wanted mature, refined, thematically appropriate specializations that fit into the ambiguous morality of the shifting world.

MiniEquine.6014:

purecontact.1680:

Rhiannon.1726:

Sentinel, Warder (and Keeper would fit here, too): My dictionary gives me the same translation like guardian (-> Wächter). So these are just different words for the same thing -> a person who guards something.

FYI : Sentinel should be taken as “Border Guard”.

Which is why it’s one of the better options than anything else people have suggested so far. Border Guards are out on their own, usually need the extra range weapons because of the distance from things they are, and they need to have similar skills to that of a hunter. It would make sense with the traps because of their defensive nature too.

and we are pushing into new territory so they are literally on the border between home and Mordy.

TyPin.9860:

So in short:
Dragonhunters wanna protect their people by dogmatizing dragons as forces of evil, which needs to be extinguished (evocative of witch hunters, who dogmatized certain people as evil witches).

Ooooh, so they’re forcing NPC motives and outlooks onto my character.

How is that any better?

Ojyh.9842:

You can’t say [merged] if it is not actually merged by a moderator.

Reaper is good. Nothing to say about that. A bit bit generic maybe, but whatever… It works.

I was poking fun but I edited it for you. Wasn’t impersonating a mod, just parodying the Dragonhunter thread.

RabbitUp.8294:

Alice.5360:

But he did follow the dictionary. “receive (something, especially something beneficial) as a consequence of one’s own or another’s actions.”

Necro is reapin’ up the points in PVP and reapin’ up the life force and reapin’ up the loot and reapin’ up the souls stylistically via the skills making it a grimreaper.

Are we going to play this game?

Hunter
1. a person who hunts game or other wild animals for food or in sport.
2. a person who searches for or seeks something:

Here, take definition #2. You search for loot, and seek answers and knowledge and meaning in your life.

We both know Necros are called Reapers because of the Grim Reaper, it’s pointless to argue otherwise. Dictionaries are not infallible, nor are their definitions absolute.

But only in relation to dragons. soooo…. Dragon: another term for flying lizard.

We seek for loot and knowledge as long as it comes from a flying lizard. That is all we seek and we are fanatical in this pursuit.

/s

My problem is that Dragonhunter is limiting. Reaper is not. But if you were to take away the portion of the name that is limiting- dragon- we’re left with hunter. Can you call a guardian with holy skills and virtues and traps a hunter? A ranger having a longbow and traps didn’t make it a hunter.

Ranged weapon and traps that are placed at the users feet. GG.

I’m quting this from the other thread:

Genesis.8572:

Let’s compare the Chronomancer trait names with the Dragonhunter trait names to show more of what I am talking about the thematic cohesion of the elite specializations.

Chronomancer: We should expect a lot of time-motifs, and that’s what we find.

• Minor Traits: Time Splitter, Flow of Time, Time Marches On
• Adept Traits: Time Catches Up, Delayed Reactions, All’s Well That Ends Well
• Master Traits: Illusionary Reversion, Improved Alacrity, Danger Time
• Grandmaster Traits: Lost Time, Chrontophantasma, Seize the Moment

Conclusion: The chronomancer trait names are clearly tied in with the specializations’ time motif. Some puns and common phrases. It’s evocative about being a time mage.

Dragonhunter: We should expect either dragon or hunting motifs, but it is mostly generic guardian-sounding names.

• Minor Traits: Virtuous Action, Defender’s Dogma, Pure of Sight
  - Is there anything here that would suggest “dragonhunter”?

• Adept Traits: Piercing Light, Zealot’s Aggression, Soaring Devastation
  - I will say that Soaring Devastation is probably one of the best trait names for the DH. I want more trait names like that, if this is going to be a DH. But the other two come across more like typical guardian trait names.

• Master Traits: Hunter’s Determination, Bulwark, Dulled Senses
  - Hunter’s D does pass, but it’s also uninspiring. Maybe renaming it with greater emphasis on the ‘draconic’ aspect? Bulwark is fairly generic guardian as well, and Dulled Senses does not feel appropriately named for what it does.

• Grandmaster Traits: Hunter’s Fortification, Heavy Light, Big Game Hunter
  - Two more ‘hunting’ names, but one’s a repeat of the Hunter’s ____, and the other is the “big game hunter” mantra repeated on the first preview post. Again, I would make these more draconically-linked. For example, renaming “Hunter’s Fortification” to “Draconic Resilience” or “Protective Scales of Justice.” I would also connect “Big Game Hunter” more overtly with “Spear of Justice” (e.g. “Justice’s Wrath”) or dragon-hunting (e.g. “Strike the Weak Spot”).

Conclusion: Only three of the twelve traits directly references hunting (H’s Determination, H’s Fortification, and Big Game H), and two kinda allude to dragons (Soaring Devastation, Big Game H). This specialization lacks a clear, unifying sense of thematic focus and cohesion as demonstrated in their trait names, particularly when compared to the chronomancer. Most of the trait names do not evoke dragon-hunting or dragons, but generic guardian names. I think it needs to move more towards these draconic and hunting aspects to make it a more cohesive and sellable ‘dragonhunter’ package.

And as I added on…

Soaring Devastation refers to the wings becoming a damage leap instead of a heal leap… And the wings are Dwayna wings, not dragon wings so you can knock that off the list.

Then, on top of that, the “Big Game Hunter” undermines what Jon said when he was all “ooooh, no, you’re not /that sort of hunter./ You’re witch hunters, obviously!” Nah, man- being a game hunter is in the trait line. You can’t trick us! :<

RabbitUp.8294:

Which is my point. You can’t get technical and follow the dictionary on one class, and give a free pass to another.

It’s the fantasy genre, definitions are fluid.

But he did follow the dictionary. “receive (something, especially something beneficial) as a consequence of one’s own or another’s actions.”

Necro is reapin’ up the points in PVP and reapin’ up the life force and reapin’ up the loot and reapin’ up the souls stylistically via the skills making it a grimreaper.

And reaps their life-force via mad dps.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Sorin.4310:

Yes I can’t wait to hunt down bubbles with my longbow and ground targeted traps as a dragon hunter….

You think we ever get to fight other dragons than Mordremoth and Zhaitan?
That is a bit optimistic.

We will be going after Mordy for two years at least at this rate.

Totbot.4583:

Alice.5360:

Look at the creativity in naming the other classes.

How is Reaper and Ranger/Druid creative? They are even more generic RPG sounding than Dragonhunter.

You can argue they sound cool, but they’re hardly creative.

Sorry, I guess I meant “they leave room for creativity.”

What’s a druid do? A bit of healing. A bit of earth magic. Spirits and earthy stuff.

What’s a reaper do? Kicks kitten and takes name and is pretty much death itself.

What’s a dragonhunter do? Hunts dragons. Jut like the reapers and the druids of the Pact but allegedly it is their one and only calling.

Look at the kick kitten great sword necros get, the awesome intricate shield for chronomancers, the tree staff and intricate as heck shoulders for druids.

Now look at our Dragon themed bow.

Look at Necro’s theme fitting hood. And chronomancer’s lovely shoulders.

Now look at our Dragon-Bash leftover gauntlets.

Look at the care put into the presentation video for NEcro…

Look at the creativity in naming the other classes.

Yep.

Here is the druid image- neat shoulders and neat staff right on theme: https://nerdybookahs.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/gw2_heart-of-thorns_ranger_druid_044.jpg

Here is the chronomancer. Can’t really see the shoulders but isn’t that an intricate shield?: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/6d5e2Glamor.jpg

Here’s the reaperwith the sword from the concept art ANd a theme fitting hood: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/940e1Rise.jpg

Here is the dragonhunter image- the bow is so similar to other skins and the Jade serpent bow out does it by a mile. And that glove? It looks like a muppet on our hand. Like a Lambchops dragon thing….
https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/f4d76Glamor-1.jpg

cocowoushi.7150:

27 pages omg…
I don’t mind Dragon Hunter, but I do like Warden better.

We do toooooo, hence the 27 pages on this thread and the 10+ on the other thread and the THOUSANDS of views and the support from social gaming sites and well-regarded GW2 streamers/

BACK ON TOPIC OF HOW AWSESOME REAPER IS:

That sword! It’s the same one from the concept art! So jelly~~~~ That hood too. <3!

Like the hood is what a reaper would wear. :o And the skills MATCH the aim of the specialization. Like, the necro becomes a reaper.

lordkrall.7241:

Which is exactly what the Guardian is all about.

No. No it’s not.

And even if it /were/, why should they get a name so blatantly “what it’s all about”? Why isn’t Druid actually called “Jungle-learned” then?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Reaper is pretty generic. I would have liked Wraith better. But at least it is not as “high concept” (contain your laughter please) as the Dragon Hunter.

This really is the sort of name you get when you accept the very first suggestion that someone in the office shouts.

Project lead: “I would like to open the discussion for the name of the new necromancer specialization….”
Random dev: “REAPER!!!”
Project lead: “Alright, reaper it is! Lets go with that!”

Good thing he shouted that out over the whispered “Vinehunter” suggestion.

lordkrall.7241:

So… how is Reaper any less generic than the Dragonhunter, which people raged like mad about being so generic?

Raeper is full of possibilities.

Dragonhunter is not.

Reaper fits the genre of the class.

Dragonhunter does not.

Reaper is not two words mashed together.

Dragonhunter is.

It’s amazing.

Well done.

Great video too.

RabbitUp.8294:

@Mordeus
High concept doesn’t mean complicated or sophisticated. That’s the misunderstanding that spawned most of the rage. High concept is a general, overarching idea, based on which the rest of a story is developed through top-down design.

Since you mentioned Jurassic Park, the high concept there was “dinosaur theme park”, or “cloning dinosaurs”. The production staff decomposed that idea, like what would cloning dinosaurs mean for our society, would we reduce these fearsome predators into zoo animals, then they worked in the little details, the “low concept”, like character interaction.

For chronomancer, the conception was probably based on a power concept (time control), an existing skill (Time Warp), an unreleased class (GW1’s chronomancer), or even all at the same time. Then came the wells, the shield (which resembles a clock), and the name.

According to what Jon Peters said, Dragonhunter was high concept in the sense that they wanted a reason for guardian to fight at range, and had the idea of the dragonhunter faction in lore, so they explored how guardians would involve themselves with that faction. From the concept of the dragonhunting guardian spawned the kit they would use.

Warriors might have a simple concept, but because it’s so simply, they don’t give you much to work with. What’s warrior’s trademark, mastery of non-magic weapons? In which case, how would the elite Warrior feel different enough when wielding a dagger, for example? Additionally what part of their kits leave room for further expansion, do they need more support options, more selfish options?

Black Box.9312:

A “big game hunter” gives the impression of hunting for pure sport

All real-life hunters do that, regardless of the size of the game they specialize in. The concept of the witch hunter is already in violation of that definition.

Alas, there is no dragon hunter faction and, if they happen to make one, that’s still forcing PVE-story and NPC choices onto the player character.

Additionally, though what you wrote out was well considered and well written, the fact you had to do it at all shows how bad the name and concept are.