Guild Wars 2

Somoe.3621:

1. Necro’s “only have two good power scaling attacks” but also have access to every Condition in the game, which they excel at applying (especially to multiple targets).

2. Necromancers do in fact have instant gap closers; Dark Path, Necrotic Traversal (potentially), and Spectral Walk (potentially).

1. Burning would like to have a word with you. You know, the highest damage per application condition in the game? Also, I can name at least 3 classes that can stack damaging conditions better than Necros, meaning “excel” is a bit strong of a word here. I think you meant that Necros are “average” at applying.

2. Neither Dark Path nor Necrotic Traversal are instant; both have a cast time. Spectral Walk is hardly a gap closer, unless your opponent is bad enough to run exactly where the long green trail of death starts.

I’ll agree some of the thoughts in the OP are exaggerated, but it does not help to exaggerate your counter arguments either.

OP: Please add to your list that approximately 50% of our utilities and elites cannot be used underwater (wells & minions). It’s a pretty major design shortcoming, IMO, that going underwater can nullify entire trait builds.

EDIT: on second thought, don’t add it to the OP. it would be our luck that ANet would read this thread and come away with the conclusion of, “Necros want more underwater fixes.”

Reasons I dislike Re-animator:

- Minor trait: Increases aggro radius for 20 seconds upon killing a mob. Would you take this trait?

- Jagged Horrors still get hit by PvE mechanics at the detriment of the team: electric stairs in Asura fractal, Jade Maw beams

- Allows bouncing attacks to hit me multiple times, due to bouncing off of JH

- It’s a minor trait that has absolutely zero impact on single target encounters (e.g. many bosses).

- It forces use of minions in any build that wants to trait for increased toughness, boon duration, improved staff skills, protection from wells, etc. Note that Necros are not a pet class by definition. Minions are an option, but not part of the class mechanic, like Mesmers or Rangers. I believe this was ANet’s justification for no control over minions during pre-release.

IMO, if this trait were replaced with a blank space, I would be happier with it than I am today.

I recently got my Mesmer alt up to level 35, and have been running a few AC exp paths with a (very) basic shatter build. After a couple of runs, I started thinking about what builds are viable to fulfill different roles with the Mesmer.

I’ve seen a couple posted in these forums:

Shatter dps: I’m currently running a very basic framework of the Shatter Cat build. IMO, this type of build brings very good single target dps with some minimal support (e.g. Chaos Storm)

Mantra Healing: I’ve also read about some mantra healing builds that focus on ranged dps while providing AoE heals. An interesting support role, though it would appear to lack application of supportl boons (e.g. Protection).

What other builds or roles can the Mesmer fill in dungeons?

Thanks for all of the replies so far, and keep them coming. I have a bit more time to post now, so I’ll try to touch on some of the key notes from multiple posts here.

First, my Mesmer is currently 13. I played around with GS a bit more last night, and I suppose it is OK, though still not one of my favorite main hands. I can see how it would be a useful AoE source in DEs though. I also want to try out more with the Scepter and a shatter build, but it seems this would not be very viable without traits.

Which brings me to some other posts. A couple of people had said that the Mesmer does not feel complete until level 80, mostly due to trait setups. I thought this might be why the Mesmer feels a bit unfinished at lower levels. I never had that feeling on my Necro (main), because, frankly, Necro traits are not very game-changing. With my Necro, I felt mostly whole at level 30, based on weapons and utilities alone, while traits were there to grant minor bonuses while leveling. I get the impression that traits are far more build defining on the Mesmer, meaning you need to be a high level to specialize.

My Mesmer is a Norn instead of Charr, but giant Norn clones with butterflies are still pretty awesome…

Lastly, I really find the in-combat mobility entertaining, especially coming from the Necro. I am also glad to hear that Mesmers can effectively go glass-cannon zerker gear, as that is something I am looking for in an alt as well.

I have multiple alts in the teens and twenties, and I am trying to determine which one I want to start playing up to 80 with a few of my friends. At first, I thought I wouldn’t like the Mesmer, but it has somewhat surprised me in terms of fun-factor.

However, I am still at a loss as to whether I want to continue the character. At times, it is enjoyable being such a chaotic force on the battlefield. At other times, I feel incredibly limited by only having 4 main-hand selections, of which I have not been a huge fan of GS or Scepter to date.

I am hoping some of this changes when you can start making deeper builds via traits. If you play Mesmer, why do you like the class? What can I look forward to if I move up in level towards 80?

I can’t get onboard with only temporarily disabling this trait. IMO, it should be moved to a major trait, and the minor should be replaced with something that benefits all types of builds.

Please quit forcing anybody who wants the trait for their staff, toughness, or boon duration to take minion skills. Some of us do not want to play minion Necros.

Basic idea for replacement minor: Gain 1 Toughness for every 2% life force you have.

alanis.6094:

Can’t think of a logical reason that a 4-Well support build wouldn’t get the Well protection talent.

Primarily because I would have to spec in and out of it anytime I decided to run Arah. Though it would be a great talent, I’ll probably avoid Death Magic until Reanimator stops sucking so hard (or ANet allows me to disable it).

Goal:
I have primarily been playing dungeons with RL friends playing 2 Thieves and an Engineer, while I have been playing a Conditionmancer build. I would like to change up my build to create a playstyle that will allow me to soak up melee damage and provide a lot of PBAoE support.

Known so far:
Gear:
I intend to use Staff and Dagger/Focus/Warhorn. Warhorn seems like the weapon of choice for trash and AoE encounters, while Focus seems superior for single target encounters, but but this is a game time decision. Gear will be a mixture of Knight’s & Soldier’s stats.

Utilities:
Well of Blood
Well of Suffering
Well of Darkness
Well of Power (as default – rotated based on encounter)

Traits:
What I really don’t know, though, is how I want my traits setup, or which traits will perform well for this role. I know that I want 30 points in Blood, and Ritual Mastery (Well CD reduction) is necessary. This leaves me two major trait selections from Blood.

I have also not decided how to split the remaining 40 traits. I am most leaning towards a 30/10 or 10/30 split between Spite and Soul Reaping. 30 Spite would lean more towards damage, including Close to Death. Whereas 30 Soul Reaping would include Near to Death (DS CD reduction), for interaction with Spiteful Spirit and Deathly Invigoration. This combo should create a streaming source of group healing and self-retaliation for increased damage if I am also taking hits.

Spite build|
SR build|

Questions:
- Has anyone played a similar build / role to this successfully as a Necro.?
- What two majors should I pick up in Blood?
- Is the combination of Near to Death with effects that occur on entering DS worth the trade off of extra damage from Spite?
- Other suggestions?

Hello Arena Net,

Here is my feedback on the patch:

I am happy to see that the trait points I have invested into improving my profession’s core mechanic (Death Shroud), now work properly. However, I was disappointed that more profession related bug fixes were not implemented, specifically for Necro, and almost universally hated traits / mechanics (e.g. Re-animator) were not touched in the slightest.

I appreciate that you are working on generating new content rapidly. However, I prefer functional content over new content. I feel that there has been a mismanagement of resources on the project, when it comes to the balance between new development and sustaining. Additionally, I feel there has been a mismanagement of the customer’s expectations for fixing broken content.

I really like your concept for the Fractals of the Mists. I think an evolving and scaling dungeon sounds really entertaining, and I expect that I will enjoy it. I have yet to try it for reasons I will discuss below. I also think whoever named it has a good sense of humor, giving it the acronym FotM.

However, all of this is overshadowed by the release of Ascended gear. After seeing some of the Ascended gear, I am distraught that this is the path you have taken. I am extremely disappointed that you felt the need to introduce vertical progression after only 2 months, when you have marketed the game on horizontal progression for years. Horizontal gear progression was one of the primary reasons I purchased your title, as I have absolutely zero desire to play a vertical progression game.

Mostly, I am worried. Worried that this once-great game will devolve into a gear treadmill. You tell me that you can appease the vertical progression crowd while not feeling like a treadmill, but I am not comforted.

I had been hyping this game to my friends at every chance I had. I told them GW2 was the best game available for my casual, time-limited, child-rearing brethren. “Leave that pointless gear grinding behind,” I would tell them over Ventrilo. Three were ready to quit D3 and migrate to GW2 after the free trial weekend. I have now told them that I can no longer fully endorse this game for our play time.

I believe that I am your target customer for a cash-shop revenue model. I have a fair-sized discretionary budget and very little discretionary time. I have no problem spending money for conveniences, bank tabs, skins etc., if it makes my available play time more enjoyable. However, I do not have time to engage in long gear grinds to be on par with other players. This, single-handedly, kills my enjoyment for a game. I will not be putting any additional money into GW2 in the near future.

That said, I am not going to rage-quit and uninstall. I will take a break and monitor the situation. When I get the motivation to log-in and play, I will see if my Necro still feels fun. I will check out the FotM and try to acquire some Ascended gear. If it does not feel like an overbearing grind (which, I assume, it will if it truly bridges the enormous gap between Exotic and Legendary), I will continue to play. And if I am having fun, I will resume spending money and selling the title to my friends.

I do not think a game can successfully cater to vertical progression without feeling like a treadmill, but I would be happy to be proved wrong.

Hunterdan.4921:

I came across a thought I posted in another thread. But some of you fellas seem to be rather busy here, so I wanted to run this by you as well. Aside from the ragers, many of you are excellent conversationalists. So, here we go!

I think many of us saw the image of the ring posted, and assumed there would also be a power ring, and a precision ring, a healing ring, etc. But what if there isn’t?
What if the ring shown, was the only ring? It’s stats base lined for running dungeons? Putting everyone on a plateau that they can design pve dungeons around. Modifying variable being your infusion, and whatever weapons you happen to take along. Sure, I could equip my higher DPS ring, but agony would down me. Again, now I am at a plateau that they can design the dungeon around.

Thoughts?

This is about my biggest hope at the moment. Perhaps ANet has decided to limit the stats on Ascended gear such that it has lower or equal combat efficiency as Exotics. For example, if the item has a higher item budget, but all of that additional item budget is spent on Magic Find, Exotics with all combat related stats would still be useful.

However, there is one major problem here, Legendary weapons. If Legendaries are bumped up in power, and all Ascended items are non-optimal for combat, does that mean I need to farm a Legendary to have optimal combat stats?

No thank you. IMO, ANet should keep everything about the patch, except make Ascended gear statistically equal to Exotic.

Crater.1625:

Change #1, alone, would basically save the game for me (I would probably continue to lobby for a different Infusion system, but honestly at this point the only thing that really, really matters is nipping the power creep in the bud. Busting down unnecessary grind can come later.

I realize this is the case for many people, and would probably be the only change they could make in such short order. However, I think it would be beneficial to have an opt out option for Agony (and the better rewards) added down the line.

Sion.1653:

I’m sorry to be that guy.

But they won’t implement this compromise, so why bother getting hopes up?

It’s likely they will not. However, as I recall, Legendaries were originally going to have better stats than Exotics, and ANet reverted that decision back in Beta. It is quite possible they are, at least, considering the option.

Q: If Arena Net implemented the following two changes for the upcoming patch and Ascended Gear, would you find it a sufficient compromise regarding static power level versus gear progression?

1. Make Ascended base stats equal to those of Exotics.
2. Make a toggle for whether Agony (and the subsequent loot bonus) affects your group. This could be a party vote, similar to exp. paths today.

These two changes make excellent compromises for both the crowd that does not want stat inflation and the crowd that wants gear progression.

Anti stat inflation: Ascended gear remains equal in power to current Exotics. New dungeon content is available with Agony turned off to allow for casual runs with limited loot-potential (read: current dungeon reward level). All content is available to this group without invalidating previous gearing efforts or introducing power creep through stats.

Gear progression: Ascended gear grows in power (for dungeons) through infusions, providing continued gear progression. More difficult dungeons (as far as Agony inflates difficulty) provide better loot rewards. This group gets a progressive, and potentially competitive, PvE mode.

IMO, ANet can make 90% of the people in this thread happy with two relatively simple changes:

1. Make Ascended base stats equal to those of Exotics.
2. Make a toggle for whether Agony (and the subsequent loot bonuses) affects your group. This could be a party vote, similar to exp. paths today.

These two changes make excellent compromises for both the crowd that does not want stat inflation and the crowd that wants gear progression.

Anti stat inflation: Ascended gear remains equal in power to current Exotics. New dungeon content is available with Agony turned off to allow for casual runs with limited loot-potential (read: current dungeon reward level). All content is available to this group without invalidating previous gearing efforts or introducing power creep through stats.

Gear progression: Ascended gear grows in power (for dungeons) through infusions, providing continued gear progression. More difficult dungeons (as far as Agony inflates difficulty) provide better loot rewards. This group gets a progressive, and potentially competitive, PvE mode.

Short and sweet: I bought this game under the pretenses that one could acquire max stat gear (Exotics) from a variety of different sources, including dungeons, crafting, WvW, karma; and that once one had max stat gear, one would remain at the power plateau regardless of future time investment.

Now, it appears that both of these pretenses are incorrect. ANet is introducing gear tiers, which have only been confirmed to be available via dungeons (Ascended rings).

If the new dungeon limited tiers are only usable in said dungeons, I might be OK with it. However, it will be a major disappointment if this gear affects world PvE or WvW. Yes, perhaps a big enough disappointment for me to quit altogether.

On a side note: does anyone else find it humorous that the new dungeon introducing gear tiers has the acronym FotM?

@Jon Peters:
Please also consider that this trait is currently a huge detriment to your team in any Arah explorable path, due to the Risen Grub mechanic in the Giganticus Lupicious encounter.

I would take absolutely zero benefit from this minor trait over the current benefit just so I can run Arah with my build of choice.

I want to trait 20 points into Death Magic, I really do. I want two of the major traits that buff the staff skills; I want the bonus toughness; I even want the increased boon duration. I even don’t really care that the minor traits do not help my build (conditionmancer) in the slightest. However, there is one major problem with the Death Magic traitline I cannot overcome …

Putting 5 or more trait points into Death Magic will create an active benefit for your opponents in dungeons (mainly Arah), PvP or WvW.

The first time I ran Arah, I was traited 20 points into Death Magic. Upon encountering the Giganticus Lupicus, my Jagged Horrors attacked the boss, allowing not one, but two risen grubs to spawn immediately at the boss’ feet. This, of course, gave our friendly Giganticus multiple buffs to power and armor for my guild and I to deal with in phases 2 and 3. Needless to say, no one in the run was very happy.

Immediately after the run, my guild mates (RL friends for several years) asked me to respec out of Death Magic. In fact, they did not need to ask, as I would never knowingly run Arah in a spec that will decrease the odds of our success (and this boss exists in every single path of Arah). From now on, I cannot run any traits in the DM traitline, or else I will have to respec prior to all Arah runs.

Additionally, Jagged Horrors are just generally annoying in dungeons. They have a nasty habit of running around and agroing mobs that were not previously in combat. Again, something that tends to frustrate myself and friends.

And in PvP / WvW, your enemies can rally off of Jagged Horrors. Consider, for a moment, that my enemies can rally off of a minion that I have no control over spawning, and that constantly degenerates health to make it an incredibly easy kill. Traiting into DM in a PvP environment is a benefit to your opponents.

If it were an option, I would actually opt out of this trait, taking nothing in its place, just so I could continue to use the Death Magic line. Please, fellow Necros, discuss:

- How would you fix Reanimator (5 point DM minor)?
- If Anet created a way to opt out of this trait (temporarily, until they can fix the issues above), would you choose to opt out?