Guild Wars 2

Agreed. The material costs for these event weapons is off the charts. It is currently far, far cheaper to buy The Crossing for 200G on the TP than to purchase the required materials.

RedCobra.7693:

I started in Feb on Gw2 and have been a huge fan of the jumping puzzles, all year i have been told that the clocktower was the hardest, i struggled a little on the not so secret city but when i did it i was told “just you wait for the clocktower xD” now i was super excited to get on it, however within 10minutes, i had completed it, is this seriously the super difficult achievement that people complained about, WHEN is anet going to release a reward for skilled content, theyre not against prestigious items as mr sparkles proves this, so why cant they release a jumping puzzle that takes skill,

This message is for Josh foreman: If youre going to try and create a jp that takes skill please please please add randomness too it that way skill is needed not routine

Not to sound rude :C just hope for something difficult
Red

Considering you beat it within 10 minutes (or probably 5-6 runs with the timer), I have to ask whether you watched a guide before attempting the puzzle?

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. I also assumed that the first LS meta would last for four weeks, as had every other first LS meta of the month previous.

In the end, I won’t lose any sleep over the ugly back piece that I missed, but more communication regarding the end dates of temporary content is definitely needed. Something like the daily and monthly timers would be much appreciated.

Just tried in LA, but no credit given. Tried with another key already in inventory, then a second time with no keys in my inventory. No luck.

Sadly, I do not take much solace in the interview text. In particular, I am concerned in the statement that he “hopes” no future tiers are needed.

Here’s how I interpret it: Currently ANet feels that the time needed to acquire ascended gear is sufficient for player retention purposes. However, it sounds like ANet still believes that increasing gear stats is a viable method to retain players, if player retention starts to go south.

If there’s one thing I know about the general MMO community, it’s that people always want to chase a larger carrot. How long will it be until these players reach full ascended and start clamoring for their newer carrot? How long will Living Story and horizontal progression retain these players?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

BondageBill.4021:

Purchase an item that costs laurels and a boatload of karma (provides time gating and level of effort based on how much karma is needed). Throw in mystic forge with 3 other ascended mats (requires current ascended mat farming). Receive ascended weapon.

I could probably think of something even better if I spent more than 30 seconds at it.

Have you seen the threads complaining about the ‘Mystic Toilet’ ? I wasn’t even going to broach that subject, since there would likely be RNG involved in it. That’s a scary can of worms to poke at.

I suppose I should have added no RNG. Instead, there should be static recipes for specific weapons. For example, the item you buy could define the weapon type (like sPvP weapon tokens), then you get to choose the stats upon creation. There are lots of weapons that have fixed recipes in the MF (just not precursors)

Purchase an item that costs laurels and a boatload of karma (provides time gating and level of effort based on how much karma is needed). Throw in mystic forge with 3 other ascended mats (requires current ascended mat farming). Receive ascended weapon.

I could probably think of something even better if I spent more than 30 seconds at it.

+1 for Toobz’s post above.
It’s great that ANet has finally included ascended gear in crafting.
It is not great that crafting is the only method of reliably acquiring this gear (i.e. not RNG)
When will we get multiple avenues to acquire gear across multiple play styles?

Agreed with the OP. I currently plan on crafting ascended armor and hopefully the rest of my trinkets someday, but I have no desire to level 3 additional crafts just to make 4 new weapons for my main.

Would really appreciate multiple avenues to acquire gear. You know, play the way you want to play and all that. I thought ANet learned this lesson back with the FotM release

Would you mind transcribing the exact quote: question and answer? Can’t watch the video ATM.

@OP:

I dislike ascended gear. That said, I agree with you that it is, theoretically, possible to create a system wherein vertical progression exists but is limited to such a rate that everyone who plays the game reasonably often does not fall behind the power curve. However, Anet has not succeeded in this goal.

The key aspect to a casual vertical progression would be the ability to continually progress based on tasks that the casual player will complete during a normal play cycle. IMO, laurels tied to dailies and monthlies were a good design decision in this direction. For the most part, everyone can complete the daily in a reasonable time period regardless of the specific activity they are engaged in for that session (and activities that cannot complete the daily should have been included to cover the rest of the game).

However, each of ANet’s other ascended acquisition methods relates to a specific gameplay type, where you cannot reasonably expect someone to complete it unless they are focused in that task specifically: FotM, Guild Missions, Crafting. IMO, this is bad design, because it creates the feeling that the player must engage in specific activities to chase gear instead of playing he content that each player believes is fun.

Ascended gear should never have been used as a carrot to get people to try specific content that ANet was attempting to promote.

Instead, ascended gear should be available via all playstyles. And don’t try to say that is currently the case; I don’t consider 40 laurels and 50 ectos per earring to be reasonable when you need 2 per spec per character.

It appears weapons are headed in his direction as well. Where crafting was optional before, now you will need to level 3 crafts to maintain max stat gear. Prior to last Tuesday, there was no expectation for a majority of players to complete this task.

I’m pretty excited about SAB. I missed it the first time around, so I’m looking forward to checking out all the hype.

I am also anticipating detailed release notes on the ascended weapons. Once again, it’s time to decide whether I’m going to jump off this treadmill once and for all. At least I can say Anet hasn’t killed the game for me yet, and I hope that remains true next week.

silvermember.8941:

A lot f people seem to think the few percentage of people that are mad somehow represent the majority of opinions. Somehow people seem to associate the less than 5% of players that on average visit game forums for the majority of players.

Arenanet had 1 year to decide if the gear was a good idea and since they are going along with it, it must be beneficial for them.

I’m sorry, but I cannot resist pointing out the irony in this post. Your argument, if I understand it correctly, is that because Anet is moving forward with this design after having 1 year to refine it, it must be a good design decision.

Yet your signature states:

Theoretically, the concept of the elementalist is sound, too bad this isn’t physics.

Given that Ele was one of the first two professions announced, how long did Anet have to refine the profession? Do you agree with all of their design decisions? When you disagree with the Ele design, where do you go to voice your opinion?

Hjorje.9453:

I probably should have stated that better. Since we have known that we are getting ascended items for everything (armor and weapons) since November, I have been working towards that completionist point. I have an end goal for my lvl 80s, and that is to have each of them in there main setup fully ascended, then it will be finished, not finished each time they introduce the next item. That is my goal, no one else’s (others probably have the same goal). I haven’t been told that is what I have to do, it is what I want to do.

Now if ANET goes and adds another tier of gear after ascended, then I will be in the same boat as a lot of players in this thread. I gave ANET the benefit of the doubt when they stated that ascended was supposed to be in there at launch but it didn’t make it. So I am “assuming” this is it and would have been it from the beginning. Now ANET messed up and they should have let us know there was one more tier from the beginning and they just hadn’t time to finish getting it ready before launch instead of just throwing it on us.

If ANET would have been up front about it from the beginning, would more of you have a different idea about ascended? I just took them on their word this time and have played that way since.

I can respect your position. The problem, for me, is that I see no reason to believe that ascended will be the final tier. I also do not believe ascended gear and vertical progression were planned from the beginning at all.

1. Anet spent 5 years saying that the game would launch when it was ready. Three months after launch they turned around and stated ascended gear was planned to be in the game, but they didn’t have time to implement it. Obviously, one of those two statements is false.

2. Additionally, there was never any mention of things such as fractals, agony or ascended gear pre-launch or in the original game at launch. If these things were truly planned before launch, wouldn’t we have at least heard about them?

3. Also, each release of new ascended gear has been accompanied by a new feature and means of acquisition. This does not seem like something that was thoroughly planned in advance, but something that was conceived in short order and tacked onto other features (e.g. added to the daily overhaul when players complained about how dailies were worthless, added to Guild Missions when players complained that guilds were worthless) in order to increase their value.

4. To the best of my knowledge, Anet has never said that ascended will be the final tier. In fact, to the best of my recollection, when directly asked during a reddit AMA in November (iirc?), an Anet rep said that they currently had no plans to go beyond ascended but they could not rule out any future possibilities. Coupled with the consistent message that they do not want to release a new tier every 3-6 months, I can only infer that they are leaving the door wide open for future tiers.

To your final question, if Anet had been upfront about ascended gear from pre-launch, I would certainly have a different opinion on it. Unfortunately, it appears to me that they are using it as a band-aid fix to keep people interested in chasing stats.

That’s why I post against ascended gear when they release new pieces to the set. I have no desire to continually chase stats. I really, really like this game, and I don’t want to see it ruined, for me, by a gear treadmill (no matter how slow moving). For me, the fastest thing Anet can do to make me quit this game is make me feel like I’m playing for the sake of earning gear instead of playing for the sake of having fun.

Hjorje.9453:

I myself and almost everyone I play with enjoy the ascended items. They are not hard to get and we getting them you feel like you have accomplished getting that character finished. I am not a hardcore player, I don’t do fractals over level 29. I have 3 80s fully geared in ascended without even trying really hard.

Emphasis mine.

It’s funny because I remember getting my main finished back in October when I finalized my first Exotic set with decent skins.

Then November came along, and I was given the opportunity to finish him again with a pair of shiny rings.

Then in February, I finished my main yet again with a fancy new amulet.

In March, I was given the chance to finish him yet again with a couple of earrings.

Next Tuesday, I can start finishing my main a fifth time with some weapons.

How long before I have to finish my main yet again with a set of armor?

It seems that somewhere, someone has lost the definition of finish. The sad part about it all is that I only ever wanted really cool skins to be released. I have never truly finished any of my characters in terms of aesthetics, and probably never will.

How long before the next tier of gear rolls around and we can start the finishing cycle anew?

Sardonia.8196:

The question I have is, what will be the cost of one piece of ascended gear? First you must level to 500? I have a feeling that is going to be quite costly. Secondly then you must make the T7 mats which probably will not be cheap.
I would love to know the cost. My guess 50-100 gold a piece. who knows.

Furthermore, what if you never leveled the three weapon related crafts to begin with? Add the cost for 0-400 of three crafts to your calculations (I hear artificer is relatively cheap, but weapon smithing is pretty expensive?).

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Also, I remember a dev saying ascended was the final tier and the mistake they made was not having it at launch, as it bridges the gap between exotic and legendary.

Source? My recollection was that the dev said they have no plans to go beyond ascended at this time, but that he also could not rule out further gear tiers in the future. Additionally, Anet is often quoted as stating that they do not want to introduce new gear tiers every 3 to 6 months, instead of taking a hard line stance against future gear tiers. Even this article continues to use vague terminology.

Regarding the living story releases, I have mostly enjoyed the current release schedule and content. I agree it is an impressive feat for Anet and GW2

Klawlyt.6507:

Yaki.9563:

I’m glad they are releasing Ascended gear. This game isn’t compelling enough to play just for the sake of playing. An MMO without progression is laughable.

Here’s what you’re missing. They already made a game like that. It’s called Every Other MMORPG On The Market. And guess what? That game has never been able to hold my attention. EOMMORPGotM has sold well because lots of folks like that style of play, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But a huge part of Guild Wars 2’s marketing was to people who were burned out by playing EOMMORPGotM. I log in and run off to WvW and revel in the fact that I can play in a massivley multiplayer online space and not have to worry about running on the gear treadmill. Part of why I don’t like leveling alts is because I have to start looking at gear again instead of just vendoring it.

As soon as a game starts feeling like a job, I stop. I have a job for that purpose, except it gives me actual money. I am not alone in this sentiment, and GW2 was supposed to be a little paradise for those with similar mindsets to mine. We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.

“Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not grinding to the fun reward.”

I cannot quote this post enough. I’ve played several other Online RPGs, MMO and other, and the one thing that drives me away from a game fastest is the feeling that I am playing to farm gear instead of playing for fun.

Ascended is slowly moving me in this direction. At least with the laurel system, I am working towards ascended in tandem with my normal gameplay via dailies and monthlies. If all ascended weapons are pushed into crafting, of which I never had any intent of leveling the weapon related disciplines, this effort no longer parallels my normal gameplay for fun.

You want to improve ascended gear while retaining higher stats? Make sure it is available via all gameplay types without hurting people that want multiple gear sets.

According to Looking Ahead: Guild Wars 2 in 2013: “Ascended weapons and armor will remain account-bound like other ascended gear.”

I hope this is not the case for crafted ascended gear, or I hope there are other methods for acquiring the weapons than discussed in the SAB2 preview, because I really do not want to level up all 3 weapon related crafts just to keep my main in top-stat gear.

codingCaptor.9428:

An exotic Neck item Plus jewel provides +115 main stat. Similarly, an Exotic one handed weapon plus Orb provides +110 main stat. Thus, we can assume that Ascended 1 handed weapons will have stats approximately in line with Ascended neck items.

Currently, Ascended neck items have +23 total stat points (11 main and 6 off) difference between exotic neck items. That means, with this update, a berserker character will obtain +22 power, and +12 precision over what he had before. (and probably around 2% crit damage)

Zerkers builds with around 3000 power (with full might/bloodthirst stacks) will get around 2-3% more damage from this once they switch to ascended weapons.

On the super crazy lightning hammer Ele that crits for 10k damage per swing, that’s about 300 more damage. (maybe less, I’m being generous)

This does not account for the theoretical increase to weapon damage that we may see with Ascended weapons.

Does this matter? I don’t know, but that is the change we are probably looking at.

Emphasis is mine. I believe this is the biggest concern about ascended weapons. An increase in weapon damage would have a multiplicative effect with power, precision, and crit damage, and may provide a much larger impact on total damage than the stat boost alone.

Not to mention, a weapon damage increase would further push zerker stats to the pinnacle of gearing, since it would benefit power based damage far more than condition damage or defensive stats.

Will there be ascended weapons available outside of crafting?

I would really appreciate further clarification to the question above. According to the SAB release page, there is no mention of acquiring ascended weapons outside of the crafting disciplines.

This mentality seems very contradictory to the game’s core tenet of accommodating multiple play styles. While I approve of the ability to craft ascended gear, I think they need be available via other methods as well. As an example, my main currently uses a Scepter, Dagger, Axe, Focus (PvE) and Warhorn (WvW). In order to craft one of each of the above weapons, I would need to max out 3 different disciplines, a very cumbersome process. I have extremely little inclination to grind out 3 crafting disciplines just to maintain status quo with my current power level (w.r.t. WvW).

After the initial backlash over limiting Ascended rings to FotM, I would have expected all future ascended gear to have multiple acquisition options. IMO, weapons should be available for current account-bound currencies, most likely Laurels as they also have a time gated component to their acquisition.

From the Looking Ahead: Guild Wars 2 in 2013 article, we learned the following:

These [ascended] weapons and armor will also be able to be found as rare drops from locations in the world. Ascended weapons and armor will remain account-bound like other ascended gear.

Will this be the only method of acquiring ascended weapons outside of crafting? Are our options truly limited to emptying the coffers to level up multiple crafting disciplines or grinding rare drops from specific locations in the world and praying for RNG to give us the correct stat distribution?

Spent 20ish tickets learning this fight last night on my Necro without beating it. Switched to my Mesmer tonight and killed her on my first try.

Necros could really use Vigor; it made this fight surprisingly easy. Also, this fight just reconfirmed how much the DS overflow nerf hurts. Every other class has at least one way to eat one of her AoEs without dying.

Sometimes it’s good to have multiple 80s

I run a 30/25/0/0/15 hybrid build where my gear is Carrion / Rabid (keeping a decent balance between the two), and all my upgrades are Ruby Orbs. It’s pretty effective and was a lot easier to put together than Rampager’s / Celestial since I already had all of the gear for condition builds.

It’s a really good build in open world PvE and WvW. You get enough condition damage, AoE conditions and Epidemic to manage groups, and maintain enough burst for handling single target engagements. Kind of the Necro jack-of-all-trades. I don’t know what Nemesis runs, but I use Scepter/Dagger and Axe/Focus.

In my experience, it’s not as good as a full zerker build for dungeons though (due to condition stacking).

Hiya – With the upcoming SoloQ patch, I am looking to get back into tPvP. For whatever reason, Engy has always been my preferred class in PvP, so I am looking to find out which roles the Engy is currently filling well.

I assume HGH condition spam grenadier is still doing well, albeit slightly overshadowed by Necros now. Are Engy bunkers doing well these days? If so, can any link me a good bunker build or a site that has good Engy info?

Unfortunately the forum search feature still appears broken, so I’m not able to dig up much info presently.

Mammoth.1975:

The thing that bothers me is the outsourcing of development to the forums. When players whine, sorry, provide constructive balance feedback, and get results, they’ll never stop. If it’s easier to get changes reverted or reduced than it is to adapt to those changes, how is the metagame supposed to ever evolve?

It also means there’s no benefit to presenting honest and truly unbiased feedback, because if you just scream louder you’re more likely to be heard (see: 3 TP players posting separate nerf necro threads, sorry, constructive meta discussion threads). Letting the players design the game is always a recipe for fail. Now it’s just a matter of picking a side and trying to cheer louder so you can shout the other team down on the forums.

As for losing 2 seconds on dhuumfire, I couldn’t give a kitten. It was too strong when players refused to adapt, nerfing it just means they don’t have to anymore.

I just want to take a moment to parrot this sentiment. The fact that the development team had to ask for example footage of teams with Necros versus several other comps before determining whether a hotfix was warranted strongly implies that they do not have adequate data to balance appropriately.

Furthermore, the fact that they instated this hotfix after getting several biased 5 – 10 second clips posted in that thread reinforces the notion that they are balancing to the loudest party instead of forcing people to adapt to the new meta.

For the record, I’m not trying to single out Allie here. That would just be shooting the messenger.

Allie Murdock.8152:

<snip>

Which brings something else to mind. The sPvP forums are specifically to discuss sPvP changes, or things that affect sPvP. If you would like to discuss PvE, please use the appropriate sub-forums.

JonathanSharp.7094:

1:30 am…long day at the show.

THe reason I quickly jump into the sPvP forums is because that’s usually the best place to talk overall game balance.

It’s honestly just easier for me to look at that 1 forum, and then the WvW base forum, and get a sense for those 2 game types. For PvE, there are many layers of balance, from story steps, to dungeons, to fractals, to events, to new content for the living world, etc.

For the class forums, it’s just looking at 8 individual forums, which, when you’re on trips like this with a slow wi-fi connect, is just much harder and slower.

It’s not that we don’t love PvE, or balance for PvE, it’s literally just easier for me (personally) to check 1 sub forum, rather than 8, when I have limited time and a “meh” wi-fi.
<snip>

An ironic juxtaposition of ANet quotes. Perhaps there should be a single forum for game balance that is inclusive of all game modes. Until there is, or until there is an even distribution of developer feedback among all forums, it will always appear that this game is being balanced for PvP at the expense of PvE / WvW.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Kravick.4906:

Be honest. Is that burst really any different than what thieves can do to people?

Yeah, it was. Thief duels usually come down to who jumps whom and who’s able to stack their damage better. This Necro used her Deathshroud to block my burst regardless of who engaged and then bursted me down so hard I had to blow pretty much everything to escape.

Now, I’m not saying the spec was OP per se. If I decided to leave the fight, there wasn’t a whole lot she could do to stop me from leaving. But running away was pretty much the only counterplay it had.

My point is just it makes a lot more sense to me now why this spec seems OP. It’s really hard to see how to play against something like this. My build even has pretty good condi clear and recovery, but it wasn’t fast enough. If I were an sPvP player I’d probably switch to Runes of Lyssa and save my Basilisk Venom for it, but them’s expensive for PvE.

So let me get this straight. First, the Necro did not kill you. You decided to engage, got countered, but successfully escaped before dying.

Second, you acknowledge that the Necro cannot stop you from escaping the fight. In other words, the Necro cannot kill your Thief unless you over commit.

Third, you mention that running away is the only counterplay available when you are specifically playing on a hit-and-run themed class. Combine this with the fact that the Necro cannot kill you, and you will find the solution. Engage the Necro repeatedly in order to burn fear CDs and drain life force. Eventually, you will gain the favorable engagement and kill said Necro.

And yet you can still see how this is perceived as OP for the Necro? Pretty sad predicament for the supposed “attrition class,” eh?

Fungalfoot.7213:

Oh, I don’t disagree. If they’re going to take shots at our condition pressure they better be prepared to give something substantial in return. I’m sure most competitive necromancers wouldn’t mind taking a hit there if it meant getting an actual escape in return because right now the biggest issue we’re facing as a class is how easy it is to assist train us.

Here’s the thing: I don’t think having a slow immobile class that is a damage powerhouse is bad for the game. In fact, it adds variety.

Think about how many classes in this game are fast, mobile, bursting roamers: pretty much any viable damage class (expect HGH Engy). If you are not a roamer, then you are likely a bunker. IMO, the game could use more roles as long as they result in balanced gameplay.

A class that is slow, immobile, easy to CC and dominates team fights if not dealt with? I still think it could help the meta.

(Completely off topic, every time I type meta today, it first comes out as meat. I must be hungry…)

flow.6043:

BondageBill.4021:

flow.6043:

On a side note: why would a power necro pick Dhuumfire instead of Close to Death?

….

Burning with 1000 condition damage will tick for 578 damage. Assuming an 80% duration increase, burning has a duration of 7.2 seconds; in other words, Dhuumfire has an approximate 70% up-time. This would provide an average of 400 DPS over the course of a fight (578 * 0.7).
…

This means that I would need to be doing an average of 4k direct damage DPS in order for CtD to offset Dhuumfire. That output would likely require a zerker power build (which I also run, but there are several pros and cons between the two builds).

In case you didn’t read the very quote you posted from me: power necro… is what I wrote.
So let me crunch some numbers for you this time:
A power build will just have +30% from Spite and 0 condition damage (unless you got some points in Curses). That means Dhuumfire does 5×328=1640 damage every 10 seconds under optimal conditions. So yeah, a power necro will definitely be better off taking Close to Death instead.

BondageBill.4021:

Our current inability to survive any sort of CC train makes me doubt the OP-ness.

That’s an entirely different problem, a very real one at that, but it has nothing to do with the condi pressure that Dhuumfire added to the necros arsenal.

I already wrote this in a different thread, I believe Dhuumfire should do ~2 stacks of torment instead of burning.

First quote:
True, a zerker necro will always want CtD. I was just pointing out that other Necro “power” builds will invest 30 into Spite, benefit from both the power and duration, and prefer Dhuumfire over CtD.

I noted in another post that I believe the only issue (if there really is one), is the pairing of Dhuumfire and Terror. Personally, I would love it if they just moved Dhuumfire and Terror to Curses GM (mmm, Axe training, CtD & Dhuumfire). Of course, that would likely result in a different OP build.

RE Torment vs. Burning on Dhuumfire:
This solution might work, and would also address the perceived coverage problem. However, ICD, duration and proc rate would need to be adjusted significantly.

Fungalfoot.7213:

BondageBill.4021:

Our current inability to survive any sort of CC train makes me doubt the OP-ness.

You’re absolutely right, our survivability is currently underpowered. Necromancers along with warriors will always be targeted first due to how easy we are to bring down. We don’t have stealth, we don’t have evade, we don’t have block. We’re practically defenseless out there. It’s bad.

But our condition pressure is also currently overpowered.

I think it’s very silly to call a class as a whole either OP or UP. It can be both and often is.

There is truth to your last statement for sure. I think the difficulty for the devs revolves around their vision of the Necro.

They don’t want Necros to have CC immunity (Stability / Invulnerability)
They don’t want Necros to have escapes (Blinks, Stealth)
They don’t want Necros to have mobility (Vigor, Charges, Blinks)

Without these things, Necros are forced to engage until someone dies. Unfortunately, there are only two things left the devs can give Necros so that we have a fighting chance: raw damage and crowd control.

Thus you end up where we are today. For Necro to stand a chance, they need strong CC and burst, which is classified as OP. ANet will need to bend on their aforementioned vision of the Necro if they want this dynamic to shift (not that I think it necessarily needs to).

Pendragon.8735:

+1 To the title.

Nerfing terror would only be a partial nerf to 30/30 builds, while being a major nerf to any traditional condi build that doesn’t not go spite, almost forcing you back into burning to get burst back and condition coverage back up.

Which would be counter productive to what their intention is, which is to make Necro more survivable.

I agree with this also. ANet is in a tricky position here:

If they nerf Terror such that Terror + Dhuumfire is an acceptable level of condition burst, then all condition Necros will be pigeon-holed into 30/30/x. This is obviously bad for the class.

OTOH, if they overly nerf or remove Dhuumfire, they will destroy the hybrid builds that rely on both direct and condition damage.

I think the real issue is finding a way to make Terror and Dhuumfire exclusive. Perhaps move them both to GM Curses trait line?

flow.6043:

Yendorion.2381:

Actually, Do NOT touch anything! With not even the time for the Meta to adapt and talking already of nerfing, what sheer nonsense!

It’s certainly not nonsense. It’s been a week, “the meta” doesn’t need that long to adept to new builds.

Blaine, I’m with you on this.

On this topic, I disagree entirely. A week is practically no-time in the metagame. In a scenario where one class gets buffed from a non-viable to a balanced state, this is how the meta would normally progress:

1. Many people start playing buffed class
2. Pro teams adjust composition to add one (or more) of the buffed class to exploit new buffs. New team strategies are developed around buffed class
3. New compositions / strategies are explored to counter strategy developed in step 3
4. Meta has shifted to include multiple compositions / strategies that can play against the weaknesses of other meta compositions. Hopefully, over time, multiple viable comps are developed that can play out in a rock/paper/scissors/lizard/Spock fashion.

Currently, it appears we are at step 2. However, there appears to be little incentive for teams to progress to step 3 in GW2, as they can all just reroll the new “OP” comp in an instant (but that is another discussion entirely).

Now, I am not trying to say that Necros are balanced in their current state. I just think it is too early for anyone to know whether Necros are currently OP or just viable. Our current inability to survive any sort of CC train makes me doubt the OP-ness.

Blake.2973:

Well, i would like Dhuumfire not be nerfed because of terror !

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Dhuumfire fulfills the role of establishing a PvE / WvW viable power / condition hybrid. Necros have been given a third build to play around with (full DD, full CD, hybrid) and a nerf to Dhuumfire would set it back quite a ways.

flow.6043:

On a side note: why would a power necro pick Dhuumfire instead of Close to Death?

To throw some numbers at you pertaining to a hybrid build:

Close to Death provides an approximate 10% DD damage boost averaged over the course of a fight.

Burning with 1000 condition damage will tick for 578 damage. Assuming an 80% duration increase, burning has a duration of 7.2 seconds; in other words, Dhuumfire has an approximate 70% up-time. This would provide an average of 400 DPS over the course of a fight (578 * 0.7).

Note: Both of these values come from my hybrid build. Also, I realize that I am simplifying the up-time calculation on burning. I am assuming the extra ticks provided by the partial second in my burn duration offset the time required to crit after Dhuumfire’s cooldown expires.

This means that I would need to be doing an average of 4k direct damage DPS in order for CtD to offset Dhuumfire. That output would likely require a zerker power build (which I also run, but there are several pros and cons between the two builds).

Thanks for the input, Xom. For WvW, I think I should be OK with this toughness. My current zerker / cavalier build runs about 100 toughness higher, but only has base vitality. I’m pretty good at paying attention to my positioning.

Any thoughts on the kill stacking sigil? I had been leaning towards Perception, since crit would affect both direct damage and bleed / burn proc rates (albeit a very minor affect on burn). However, it sounds like you value precision less than other stats. Would you lean towards Bloodlust?

I am working on a hybrid Scepter/Dagger and Axe/Focus build for PvE and WvW, leveraging Dhuumfire and Target the Weak. I would like some advise / criticism regarding my current stat distribution, as copied below:

Power: 1865
Crit Chance: 50%
Crit Damage: 50% (not including base 50%)
Condition Damage: 1018
Condition Duration: 80% (including 40% food)

Toughness: 1154
Vitality: 1154

This is about as well around balanced as I could get to, while maintaining healthy stats in each category. Does this look good for a hybrid setup, or should I favor one stat over another?

Also, which on-kill stacking rune sigil (Bloodlust, Perception, Corruption) would work best within this build concept?

After yesterday’s patch, I decided to revitalize my hybrid direct damage / condition damage build for some testing, and I found this setup most enjoyable. However, I feel as if my build is far from optimized, so I wanted to start a theory crafting discussion on how to get the most bang for the buck out of a hybrid build. Without further ado, my current setup (primarily PvE):

30/25/0/0/15 Build
Note: Move Axe Training down to the Master tier, and add Dhuumfire for the GM Spite trait.

Now, here are what I see as the debatable points for build optimization:

Traits:
I went 25 into Curses for Target the Weak and 15 in SR for Last Gasp. Imo, the GM traits in Curses are not super special for this build, unless Lingering Curse also affect burning procs caused by your scepter. Has anyone tested this?

Conversely, Last Gasp is a pretty major survivability boost, and the extra 5% crit damage does not hurt in a build that is already lacking crit damage.

Utilities:
Epidemic, Blood is Power, and a stun-breaker (Spectral Walk or Spectral Armor).

I have been thinking about swapping out BiP for Signet of Spite though (and grabbing the associated Signet Mastery trait. The passive power boost and active 3 stacks of might would not be quite as good as popping BiP immediately after an Epidemic, but it is looking hard to pass up 18 seconds of weakness and 5 stack vulnerability (+80% condition duration).

Stat Preferences (Sigil and Oil):
In my current setup, I favored Precision over Condition Damage or Power for boosting via sigil stacks and maintenance buffs. My rationale for this choice was that Precision is the only stat that boosts both direct damage and condition damage (via additional condition procs).

However, it seems that stacking condition damage with a Tuning Crystal and Sigil of Corruption may have a better pay off here. It would result in a gain of about 360 condition damage, at the cost of 18% crit chance (67% reduced to 49%). Thoughts?

Runes:
I currently have three Lyssa runes for the Precision and 10% condition duration. This boosts me to 80% duration on all conditions (30% Spite, 40% food, 10% runes) and 100% duration on bleeds (Hemophilia). Other three runes are undecided, but I would probably use something with the main stat of condition damage. Unfortunately, there is no condition damage +15% burn duration rune to pick up here.

Sigils:
Other than Perception for Precision stacking, I have one Sigil of Earth in each weapon set. Seems pretty standard for my goals. Are there other options that are worth consideration here?

Elite:
Meh, any elite works here. I mostly use Plague for dealing with really annoying trash packs in dungeons or errant pulls of far too many mobs. Plus, the long stability is handy for running.

What are your thoughts on optimizing the hybrid DD/CD build? What adjustments would you make to the above to get maximum performance out of this playstyle?

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Build: 19878
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Same

Build: 19878
Error Code: 58:11:5:512

I have to agree with the OP. IMO, GW2 would have been better if the max level was 30, and all post-Lion’s Arch zones were designed to be played at max level. This would have created an innate incentive for players to spread out across the world, instead of bunching up in Orr and Frostgorge until ANet had to push them out.

Of course this cannot be changed now, but I am sure ANet is always evaluating how to make GW2 as good as possible. Honestly, maintaining the level cap at 80 should be on the table, as it would simultaneously help assuage the anti-gear grind crowd and increase the density of high-level zones in the world (which would be a good thing IMO).

I’m sure someone is ready to quote ANet stating that they would “absolutely” raise the level cap, but ANet has shown that they are willing to reevaluate and adjust their previous design direction. IMO, raising the level cap would be a big detriment given the current state of the game.

IndigoSundown.5419:

BondageBill.4021:

Everyone who is complaining about “grinding” laurels or concerned about losing dailies and taking longer to get the amulet should sit down and reflect on the following question:

How will obtaining an Ascended amulet improve my in-game experience?

Ascended gear was put in to be a goal. It should not seem strange that when a company adds an incentive to a game, people want it — that’s why developers create incentives in the first place. Needing the stats is irrelevant.

And yes, I read the rest of your post. What you did not take into consideration is the power of want.

Oh, I completely understand the power of want. Truth be told, I will likely be purchasing my Ascended amulet on day 20 as well (unless I CBA to do 5 dungeons by then). However, I also enjoy the game and was logging in almost daily pre-laurels. For me, the power of want means I might play a few extra nights and I adjust my play style to add in some underwater kills and crafting.

On the other hand, it seems that several people in this thread have surpassed the power of want and submitted to the power of compulsion. As soon as someone is submitting to multiple hours of “grindy” and otherwise un-fun gameplay just to see some new shiny pixels, that person should consider whether the time investment for the reward is really worth it (IMO, it is not as discussed above).

exocet.6308:

The new patch brought the laurel system as we know. With it the new ascended amulet. By a rough calculation it would take 20 days to obtain that single item.

What bothers me is that it requires an uninterrupted 1h per day (time for daily + time for monthly roughly divided across the 20 days) x 20 days streak. I am fully aware that the developers have more ways to obtain items planned out for us in the future. But is this a good start?

Everyone who is complaining about “grinding” laurels or concerned about losing dailies and taking longer to get the amulet should sit down and reflect on the following question:

How will obtaining an Ascended amulet improve my in-game experience?

In my experience, the Ascended gear, in the limited quantities currently available, has little impact on gameplay. Let us take a look at the various game types:

Open PvE & Exp. dungeons – Currently, all open world PvE and explorable dungeons can be completed reasonably in a full set of Rare gear (probably Masterwork, but I haven’t tried some of the harder paths in greens). If you acquired an Ascended amulet today, would it be the difference between life and death during the Grenth event? Or when fighting Lupicious? Probably not. The best an Ascended amulet will achieve is expediting content you can already complete.

Fractals – The current AR cap is 25 or 30? Based on the rule of thumb of 1 AR per 2 FotM levels, you would need to be at FotM 50+ before you need this amulet. For those at FotM 50+, I suppose I can understand the complaints about grinding. However, and lets be honest here, if you are this high in fractals, you probably do not mind a bit of a grind anyway.

WvW – Many people will make the case that Ascended gear is required in WvW. Unfortunately, they are wrong. WvW is not balanced around 1v1 confrontations, where the extra stats would have the largest impact, but around large scale sieges. Would you wearing an Ascended amulet cause that failed SM siege to have completed successfully? Not at all. Individual stats have a small impact on the large scale battles, when compared to things like siege deployment, positioning, and discrepancies in army size.

Some will argue that it would make a huge difference if one team had all Ascended and the other all Exotic. This may be true, but it is a statistically invalid argument. It is a safe statistical assumption that multiple servers (especially when divided into ranked tiers) will have similar distributions of Ascended gear.

Lastly, people will say they need Ascended to remain competitive in 1v1s. I do not argue that the extra stats would benefit you in a 1v1 situation. However, you can still be very effective in 1v1s even in Rare gear (again, personal experience), to the point of winning a majority of encounters. Furthermore, WvW was never intended to be balanced around small encounters; if you are seeking fair and balanced PvP, sPvP is the appropriate place to look.

So what is my point in all of these ramblings (aka TL;DR inc)? ANet instituted a system where you will gradually earn your way to Ascended gear while playing the game naturally (or mostly naturally, kitten underwater kills). If you do not enjoy the content that you must engage in to complete the dailies, earning an Ascended amulet will be unlikely to make you enjoy that content any more. If you are so focused on the gear grind that it is frustrating, you are likely creating a problem where none exists, and where the reward will not offset the frustration.

Essentially, they changed the paradigm from “if” I get Ascended to “when” I get Ascended. Good first step IMO.

@OP: The support role is very important in this game. Don’t believe the people that will tell you that the game is all about DPS and there is no use brining support.

However, you need to find a way to mix support and damage. On my support Necro, I build around using AoE damage spells to provide AoE Protection and healing to allies, along with other benefits such as boon stripping or condition cleansing.

For the Engineer, there is a trait that makes all of your bombs (bomb kit) heal. This is a great trait to blend support via constant AoE heals with damaging attacks. So, long story short, don’t try to run a 100% support build. GW2 is not designed to reward this behavior. Instead, try to find a healthy mix between support and offensive power

I have not once gone out of my way to get the Daily Healer achievement done. Here are the areas I seem to get it done the fastest, and without NPCs required:

WvW – find a keep assault or defense. Got 10 heals in about 5 mins last night defending SM

Fractals / dungeons – 1 fractal daily PuG met this requirement last time I went this route

Any large meta-event (dragons, temple events, Harathi shaman chain) – plenty of people get downed during the long boss events at the end of these chains

EDIT: come to think of it, last night I finished dodges, healer, kills and events without leaving the walls of SM. Yay for new dailies (except UW kills)

Good change IMO. Dungeons are better without the Rez-rushing crutch.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

MORE EDITS:
Jade Maw: I’m leaving the beam as it is for the moment on the jade maw. There’s arguments for both sides, but there is also intentional gameplay in using pets/turrets/minions that I’d rather rather not nuke, that I think is actually pretty clever

Hi Robert,

While I mostly agree with your assessment quoted above, I would ask you to keep in mind one exception. There is absolutely no intentional gameplay around the Reanimator trait and Jagged Horrors. Let me recap the options I have to not spawn Jagged Horrors:

1. Neuter my build by skipping key major Death traits
2. Stop attacking mobs when the JH recharge is complete

As you can imagine, neither of these options result in fun and rewarding gameplay. I understand it is probably outside of your area to redesign Reanimator, but I would ask that you design content with the consideration that I have no control over spawning this minion (and usually would prefer it did not spawn at all).

Thanks for your time in discussing these things on the forums with us !

As someone who was very concerned about the initial deployment of Ascended gear, I have to say that this update sounds very promising. I like the direction that ascended is headed per this announcement. Plus, dungeon improvements are well welcomed.

Particularly, the laurel system sounds like a good implementation of limiting the speed at which one can acquire gear without making that gear acquisition overly grindy. I like the theory that someone with only 30 to 60 minutes available per day can keep up with the gear curve.

I hope it plays out as well as the design philosophy sounds.

Simple answer here: Quit grinding and go do the things you want to do.

You didn’t mention why you are grinding or what you need, but there are probably better ways of acquiring whatever it is than mindlessly grinding Orr. ANet set out to discourage grinding from the beginning, and they have succeeded. However, if you play all aspects of the game in a balanced fashion, you will probably find that you eventually get everything you need.

As an example, I have 2 characters in full Exotics and partial Ascended, without feeling like I ever had to hit the grind train.

Of course, this method also requires a bit of patience. If you are chasing a legendary and must have it NOW, you will feel compulsed to grind.

@OP: Start by purchasing a full set of Rare power gear. I would recommend Knight’s or Berserker’s. Honestly, the difference between Rare and Exotic is not that significant, but you can purchase it and test the playstyle for about 10% of the price.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Oh, I’m not saying it’s anywhere close to perfect (or even really acceptable), just saying two of the issues people mention are no longer issues.

The issue about boss mechanics still remains an issue though. Sure they are fixing Lupicious and Alpha, but they have since added more PvE encounters where having this pet active can be detrimental (e.g. Jade Maw).

Until the content designers demonstrate that they can develop new content without causing the JH to hinder your team, this will continue to be an issue for Necros.