To bad you didnt find the first part interesting, the point was that people maybe should put some effort into playing the weapon a bit more before promoting to destroy it for the ones that actually put in the time and effort.
When you say “people” you infact mean “you” as some sort of model of the general opinion about the hammer.
Well YOU dont find it fun to have a long cast because it makes it more difficult to hit and more easy to interupt.
I find it superfun to have a long cast with some punch (as it is today) and synergy with my other skills. So “people” dont find it boring, just the ones that clearly state its boring, most of them want it changed because they cant hit with a slow skill like that but that is my prejudice.
I know how i play this, if there is more then one opponent and at least one teammate that is exact how i play it, that 3 skill combo is crazy nice so why wouldnt i do that. Ofc i use other skills and dodge but after that i restart the 3 skill combos.
I suggest that you should read on so you get a full grasp on what really happens if they reduce cast time, besides a straight dps nerf to the chain and a durationnerf to the symbol. Survivability on the weapon would drop. Once again people should put some effort into it before demanding changes without udnerstanding the overall consequence of their request.
This is one of the few, if not the only, weapon that allows for a shoutbased competitive guardian, well on par with the meditationbuilds we/i use in tournements. That would go out the window if the current synergy between skill 1 and 2 would disappear.
If people cant live with the cast time on the third step and based on that they stay away from the hammer im pretty certain that they dont like the weapon to begin with.
This is the weapon that demands most from the player and its also the most powerful one in the current iteration. I find it logical that the most powerfil one also is the hardest one to use.
As you said this isnt wow and dumbing down gameplay based on that one step in one skill is “boring” is actually more wow then promoting to keep synergies, maybe at a cost in funfactor for some players..
And yes there are rotations in this game as well, anyone used BB to set up WW on GS or a signet before ZD?
I havent said this is OP but it will be if they change casting times on the chainsskill and keep the current synergy with mighty blow.
I prefer the synergies with MB and traits then getting it ruined by shortend castingtime.
The casting time is justified since we are talking about at least 2k damage and areaprotection and retaliation.
Continue here!
2. Regarding burst. The hammer is supreme even in this area, if you check the damage numbers on the chain you will see that the third step hits like a truck (step 1 and 2 also hits harder the gs/1h) and if you trait the size om the symbol you will also hit with at least 2 hits from the symbol. Add in that MB is on a 5(4) sec cd, half of whirling wrath, and that the damage from it is well over 50% of WW.
Both WW and ZD are also very easy to avoid and almost demands a cc for full effect versus skilled players. MB is not that easy to avoid and is also very suited for a 100% crit on swap sigil and in the chain described below it would mean 75% chance to crit on 2*MB in a build with 50% crit rating.
Checkout a mighty blow combo (MB+CHAIN+MB takes 5 sec to perform) and while doing that it brings both protection and retal to the team. You can even dodge after the chain and use the leap to hit the last MB. Using a combination of chain+ZD or chain+WW takes about the same time, check out what combo that do most damage and especially versus skilled opponents.
Great suvivability. Altruistic healing is just crazy with the hammer due to the numbers of boons it spews out, then add in the aoe and crits from aoe. with feated vigorous precision. Just these two traits gives me inbetween 400-700 in hp on every chain+mb in a 2 on 2. Its beyond good, something that would be severely nerfed by shortend casting on the chain. If you want it all then add in empowering might for more firepower and heals.
Great CC, well three cc that all of them can be used in offense and defense. AoE root is great even though a bit more difficult to land then most other cc.
The same with banish, its slow and it single target and offensively you need to really use your imagination and use the terrain as roadblock, that is one great way to use it in offense.
Ring of warding, superpowerful and multiple cc in one, the ring is great even though it takes some planning to pull it off and the knockdown is just nasty.
Overall a very powerful weapon that actually deserves long casting times, stationary casting on cc, slow casting on banish and skillbased aim on the root.
If this was made easier or more convenient it would be so crazy OP or you need to break the greatness (ie skill 1 and skill 2) in the synergies within the weapon and with traits.
Please dont mix up personal taste with broken.
The hammer is great and it works wonders, dont break it for the ones that actually found out how to use it..
(edited by Brutaly.6257)
I see a,ot of folks in here that confuse broken with their personal preference when it comes to the hammer.
I must admit i myself did the same mistake regarding the hammer and how sluggish it felt and during beta and bwe i often supported suggestions that promoted a decreased castingtime on especially the chainskill.
I was firmly convinced that hammer/x was inferior to 1h sword/scepter and that the weapon was an inferior choice compared to pretty much anything out there so when i played tournements i played with secpter/sword, a setup i actually disliked but it just performed better..
After BWE3 Alarox posted som videos on guildwars2guru.com when he played hammerguardian and it looked completely different compared to when i made my feeble attempts and i decided that during bwe3 i would make an honest attempt to understand the hammer.
My view on how to play guardian changed after that and with the introduction of the leap on skill 2 its my main weapon, in pve and pvp. The only time i switch it out of my buildelse is when i need to kite and be mobile, ie explorermode in dungeons.
When the game launched i started off with the mace but as soon as i could i bought me a hammer and i used it in 200 tournements (positive win/loss), all storymodes and ofc leveling from level 2 to 80. Imo the most powerful weapon we have, the combination of best burst, supreme teambuffs, really nice cc and survivability makes this a weapon that just rules. I will try to explain these claims further down, bare with me.
So that is my background, the reason i write this is to give a better picture on where i come from and what effort i needed to put in order to have an understanding of the true greatness of the hammer.
1. Why shouldnt casting time on skill one be reduced?
Easy, grab 2h mastery and skill one and two are almost seemless and on every symbol you put up, you can finsih it with a blast from skill 2.
If you reduce the casting time on skill one with just a couple of tenths of a second the symbol will disapear before you have skill 2 off cd.
This would mean that you only perform one combofinisher every 2nd chain you perform instead of every chain. Shortening castingtime is a huge nerf, not a buff.
Well we can all agree on that the third step is very slow and not very sexy. If we cant shortening overall casteningtime, without breaking the synergies we have, then a solution might be that we redistribute time from the third step and to the second step, making the second step slower and the third step faster.
Well then you have to think about the consequences here, the fine thing with step 2 and 3 is, besides great dps, the fact that you can support your team. The fact is that even if you miss the third step today it will mean that you put down a symbol for your team and you finish the combo for retal on the team. The leap makes it possible to jump from teh symbol, addign retal to your team and bursting the opponent at the saem time.
If the casting time between step 1 and 2 would be increased, it would mean that the needed skill to set up the symbol would increase, the presteps would be harder to achieve.
So in conclusion:
LEAVE THE CHAIN UNTOUCHED, IT WORKS WONDERS AS IT IS AND HAS GREAT SYNERGIES WHICH MAKES US THE PROFESSION THAT CAN EXECUTE MOST COMBOS OF ALL IN BATTLE AND ALL WITH A TEAMWIDE EFFECT. PROTECTION AND RETAL ARE A MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN.
(edited by Brutaly.6257)
Make a fiery spirit weapon build and use a hammer and you are nearly unstoppable. The spirit weapons chase down kiters. They deal constant damage. The spirit hammer ability can stop someone long enough for you to catch them. Then you have the CC of the 2H hammer itself; allowing you to snare and trap opponents. Once they are in the ring with you, just blast away with the hammer smash, and spirit weapon attacks and they will drop down 75% health instantly. from there you just have to hit them a few more times with your combo or class abilities.
This isnt specific for hammer gameplay, its a spiritweapon thingy and can be done with all weaponsets since those are selfplaying pianos or more or less i win buttons.
The solution to ring of warding is easy, its called stability, something any selfrespecting pvpplayer should have in their skillset, if not you are asking for a cc-lock to death.
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The other build was the fiery retaliation build. No spirit weapons just 2 H Hammer and reflective dmg and fire. People basically kill themselves hitting you then pop in a few well placed hits from the hammer and its victory.I had huge doubts with hammer skills before, but when placed in builds that focus all of your damage in the abilities, the hammer just becomes an insane secondary damage CC item that delivers better than any other weapon.
Yepp, its a great weapon, if you just can hit with that third step in the chain. The combination of damage, control and support is just supernice and as such a versitile weapon it has to incorporate some skill which i do find that the animationstimes do, ofc besides having synergies between the chain and mighty blow ofc.
Brutaly.6257It was what the hammer needed, not guardian in general. The hammer is fine now, if i get faster animations on banish and the chain it will turn OP. Dps is really nice and cc is great. Im satisfied.
I love the small leap they added to Mighty Blow, it’s actually much more effective to land the MB damage against targets that tend to move a lot in PvP.
With that said, concerning the quote above, who cares if it would make it overpowered or not, this is just from a FUN factor standpoint,
I agree from a very shortsighted perspective, read further down and i will try to explain why reduced animationtime on step three actually is a nerf and not boost.
Brutaly.6257Brutaly.6257It was what the hammer needed, not guardian in general. The hammer is fine now, if i get faster animations on banish and the chain it will turn OP. Dps is really nice and cc is great. Im satisfied.
I’m by far not the only one that thinks the main chain feels too slow.
Well they/you havent played enough with it to understand the genious with the hammer. Read on and i will try to explain it.
Good, but not enough. The chain really needs to be sped up and the damage reworked to accommodate a faster attack animation. That or put the symbol on the 2nd chain hit.
Sorry, no. Its simple has to stay the same and a reduction to animationspeed or applying the symbol of the second step infact is a nerf.
Before they added the leap (or is it a blastfinisher???) i would have agreed but now hitting with mighty blow is much easier and that is crucial to the use of the hammer.
But that third attack X_X…still makes it hard to pick.
Its actually the third step that makes the hammer good.
Her it is:
If you use 2h mastery you get 4 sec cd on mighty blow and with that cd you can start a combofield with the third step every chain and finish it with every time with mighty blow even though its has to be applied right away. Do you see it?
Retaliation and protection on every chain and if traited, and geared for it, you will have infinite retal and protection on your team. This is beyond nice, not just from a boon perspective but also from a survivalperspective. If you add in altruistic healing, vigorous precision and empowering might we apply 4 boons about every second with the hammer, in a 300-600? radius. and every boon applies 70-76 heals.
With 3 teammates and one opponent in radius (more opponent means more chances to crit on aoe and more boons and heals) and 50% critchance it means about 400-700 heals every skill 1 and 2 rotation. Yeah you read it right, that is how good this is.
If you reduce animation time, even if you dont adjust the uptime on symbol of protection accordingly, it would mean that the cd would be to long on mighty blow so you wont be able to apply a finisher to every symbol you put down.
This would mean that if you have a faster animation you need to do either two full chains or 1,5 chains, missing out on one symbol, and 2 mighty blow, missing out on one finisher.
So you miss out on:
Retal
Protection
Burst
In combination with each other or one or the other exclusively.
Well you get the point, its not by chance that the animation on the chain is corresponding to the cd on traited mighty blow.
If you trait larger symbols and longer duration (duration wont make it possible to get two combofinishers, for that the chains has to be faster then the 1h sword chain) the loss of the extra finisher will be even more severe.
I hope this will actually make you see the hammerchain in a new light, its friggin great if you just learn to hit with it.
Hammer is by far the best support weapon we have, nothing else can apply protections and retaliation as effective as this weapon, there isnt a single weapon/skill in the game that even comes close to it.
And people that hasnt hardly used it, or even understood this, wants to nerf it because they dont understand how it works.
The leap was a massive buff to the above and made the weapon superstrong.
Once again i like my 4k hits and constant protection and retal on me and the team.
You guys want to give away either our burst or our capability to support just because you want it more convenient or less demanding.
Sorry, i cant support this at all.
Specc altruistic healing and empowering might, then you play hundred games with it and then say that this weapon is any way weak or not on par.
Its the best support weapon in the game and shortening animations times or add the symbol to step 2 is infact a nerf, even if you might have difficulties understanding it.
Sorry for broken or blunt english…..
(edited by Brutaly.6257)
And you, sir, haven’t figured out about this synergies are much better with other weapons. Did I say something about bad skills we have right now? No, I said about bad changes for it. And what with your ‘I want gapcloser for hammer’? If you want gapcloser with hammer why are you not a warrior? Gapclosers is not what guardian needs at all.
Well i played over 200 tournements so far and been thru beta so i think i have a grasp on what synergies there are. I was an addict to scepter/1h but i just removed the scepter, the hammer is superior and critting for 4k with mighty blow 50% of the times is just to good, and it just turned ranged.
Play warrior, what does that have to do with anything? Is there a contradiction in being a guardian playing with a hammer and lacking a gapcloser in the hammer? Should only warriors have gapclosers on hammers?
And yes it has to do with skill when people think banish and the chain are to slow. They are slow but when they hit they are very powerful. People need to check out the dps on the chain, really check it out and compare the executiontime with our other chains, i think they will be suprised.
It was what the hammer needed, not guardian in general. The hammer is fine now, if i get faster animations on banish and the chain it will turn OP. Dps is really nice and cc is great. Im satisfied.
then you havent figured it out, there are so many synergies in the traits with hammer thats its astounding.
Just check out what some critchance, altruistichealing and vigourus precision really do on an aoe mighty blow or the symbol.
I play with a berserker jewel and mighty blow rules now every 4 second, i hope you realise that mighty blow has the best dps of all skill we have and its aoe and 300 ranged now.
With traited symbols, size and duration, and 2h mastery this is really nasty and the more opponents you have the better it becomes.
As i said, it takes a bit more skill to hit with the chain, circle and banish but if you have that this is a menace to society.
You cant be for real when you say that leap is useless!!!
The trait is meh, i give you that, but my only concern with the hammer was lack of gapcloser and mighty blow being stationary. Both issues solved.
Excellent change to mighty blow, i love it, hammer is now valid as a primary weapon.
No need to add or change anything else on this weapon, the cast times are nice and powerful stuff like ring of warding and blow out should be either stationary when placed or long casting which require timing.
Great job
Edited by Moderator Reason: Staff call-outs
(edited by Moderator)