Guild Wars 2

It can actually be argued if the mantra is stronger, for personal use it is but as a support tool it has 6% of the area of effect compared to FmW.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Update on Elite Specializations:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stress-Test-and-Elite-Specializations

To bad we dont get the chance to give feed back on the changes you mention in that thread. I am dying to see instant tomes and 600 range on those mantras ;-)

But good to see the elites in the stress test.

Thanks for being an example to your colleagues on how to communicate with your customers.

Yes it did trigger heal effects in runes. But it was bugged, it triggered when you charged the mantra and you had to wait for the icd to trigger it when actually using the heal. It was the same with elite mantra and runes triggered by charged the elite.

Tested the elite with rune of the mad king and had to wait kitten really annoying but i forgot to post a report.

I also find it to be super strong and more of an amusement.

But it actually makes sense that if a single skill applies multiple stacks of stability in one application you should get more quickneess out of it. After all we have to assume that Anet has balanced skills thru their cd/impact ratio.

Given that SyG, imo, is the most powerful shout (impact/cd) it might actually be so that its not a bug but a balance issue. I wouldnt be suprised one bit if SyG is nerfed and Stalwart Speed remains untouched. I am not saying i want that but i wouldnt be surprised.

RabbitUp.8294:

Brutaly.6257:

And i am not so certain that SyG is bugged. The way it worked during preview is the exact same way AH works, every applikation of a stacking boon counts. Hallowed ground did the exact same thing as SyG, even though quickness didnt stack as it supposed to do when using multiple skills or repplications from the same skill.

Stalwart Speed, the trait that grants quickness with stability/aegis, has a 5s cooldown. Altruistic Healing has no cooldown.

Hallowed Ground, on the other hand, worked as intended.

And you dont have to trait shouts or use the runes. I had a Valor/virtues/Fb setup in wvw that was nice. And in the end i used only one mantra (remove condition) as utility skill and shelter/RF as heal/elite. I swapped the other mantras for Retreat and SyG and there was huge difference in impact. The advantage with AH is that you can actually tell when you are doing a good jobb at distributing boons to allies and shouts are way better then mantras for support.

Shouts are not new skills. We had them for 5 years and shout builds have proven to be mediocre. Of course, there was a huge difference when you swapped your skills, you were playing wvw with a mantra build, and mantras are garbage there. So, while shouts are better than mantras, we have other skills that are better than both.

SyG will be used anyway, but Retreat does nothing that useful, 1 stack of aegis on a 30s cooldown is nothing, and swiftness is completely superfluous. I’d much rather use WoR or Sanctuary, especially if I go Virtues.

My point was that AH is applied 5 times as well in one single spell. it might be so its the application of quickness that has an internal cd, not the application of a boon. There is a big difference between the two. Well we will see at release and can just speculate atm.

The hallowed ground example was a reference to AH function not FB. When i read my post again i realize it makes no sense in the context i wrote it.

My point with shouts is that they are better to use as support in FB compared with most mantras. If people run a Fb support build i bet my ass that at least one utility will be SyG no matter if its bugged or not, one will be Purging flames and hallowed ground might be an option even though i suspect Mantra of Lore (personal use) will be in there.

We can argue that shouts are bad or not (i think they need a buff) but in the current state of the guardian they are one of the best (even though mediocre) support tools we have and FB mantras in its current iteration wont change that.

And i think most support guardian that play FB will invest in honor since the best traits for aegis and healing power is in there and with FB Pure of Heart will be one of the best traits in the entire game, say hello “Retreat”, now we are talking about quickness and a nice small heal. Runes of the defender (symbolheal build) or trooper (shoutbuild) might also be interesting. Troopers also add tough/vit so you can have pretty nice condi damage thru armor and trinkets, with about 1200 in healing power and still be around 18k health.

So i have to disagree, there are tons of arguments that at least two shouts will be in a build that revolves around healing, aegis and quickness.

But again, we will see how things pan out and a 600 cone on mantras and i will definitely reconsider.

All consecrations are of interest in a FB build even though WoR has lost its luster due to almost all damage in wvw is aoe and when roaming its only purging flames that has its place and is so in condi builds only.

will elites be available??

RabbitUp.8294:

Brutaly.6257:

Might go with boon duration runes as well and use Retreat which also (if traited) gives quickness.

In its current iteration FB will use at least 2 shouts (Retreat and SyG) since they actually hit allies and also provide quickness. I believe most FB will invest in superior aria if going support and i also think trooper runes might be an option and use the condi removal mantra for personal use only.

Shout elite is also better compared to the mantra elite and also provide quickness in a much more reliable fashion.

Tbh i cant se any one using mantras as asupport tool in an affective fashion.

So support will go with 2-3 shouts one mantra for personal use and shelter as heal and renewed focus as elite.

When they fix SyG so that it grants 2s of quickness instead for 10, what’s the point in using shouts? You are dedicating 2 traits and a rune set to make them work, and the only thing that’s changed is they now each grant 2 seconds of quickness on a 24s cooldown, and provided that you don’t use them at the same time.

What’s going to happen is that quickness share will be a pve thing only, and wvw/pvp firebrand will just forget it exists, apart from personal use.

Well its not 2s quickness, it is 10 sec since shouts actually hit allies.

And i am not so certain that SyG is bugged. The way it worked during preview is the exact same way AH works, every applikation of a stacking boon counts. Hallowed ground did the exact same thing as SyG, even though quickness didnt stack as it supposed to do when using multiple skills or repplications from the same skill.

And you dont have to trait shouts or use the runes. I had a Valor/virtues/Fb setup in wvw that was nice. And in the end i used only one mantra (remove condition) as utility skill and shelter/RF as heal/elite. I swapped the other mantras for Retreat and SyG and there was huge difference in impact. The advantage with AH is that you can actually tell when you are doing a good jobb at distributing boons to allies and shouts are way better then mantras for support.

Also remember that the stacking of quickness was bugged during the pre view so quickness didnt stack the way it should have.

Sitting here and thinking back on the pre view and i cant recall if sigils worked when swapping to tomes or when swapping between tomes?

Or did sigil of fire trigger?

I just cant recall!

Any one?

Ragnarox.9601:

Brutaly.6257:

Why not add in 5 charges per Tome, if you use all of them the tome go on full cd. If not they recover charges over time and allow for instant swaping and no cd on swapping.

It would make tomes so much more interesting.

Every suggestion is better than we have now, but knowing anet there will be 5 sec cd reduction buff on all tomes, and 1% heal buff to f2 and dont forget some minor signet buff

Hope is the last thing that deserts me…. :-)

I just want to come back to my guardian, i just cant stop hoping…. But it is a bit gloomy atm.

Why not add in 5 charges per Tome, if you use all of them the tome go on full cd. If not they recover charges over time and allow for instant swaping and no cd on swapping.

It would make tomes so much more interesting.

Chorazin.4107:

Brutaly.6257:

Is there a single player in wvw that actually will run ministrel and why should you ever use ministrel on FB? It effectively renders F1 uselesss to.

For support, tempest Minstrels is pretty much meta for any comp GvG guild like [KEK] I mean in zergs you do whatever you want. Hell bring that Minion Master or Signet thief.

As for the Firebrand as i stated earlier due to how good the F1 tome is i could def see some Settlers/Apothecary creeping into templates.

But power DPS, probably not, if you want power DPS you would just choose DH. But i think for a burn build you would definitely look to FB.

As support id say you would take a FB over base Guard, I will definitely give it a try in a small havoc group environment.

I do think the F2 tome is poor and the F3 average due to the timer, I think 90 is a bit excessive. What is that traited, like 77seconds? and im not sure how many mantras will see play due to them being far too restrictive for support.

The issue is even with ministrel FB wont be healer meta so why even go down that lane.

Very few will use ministrel with FB and even less in GvG since its not competitive.

21k health pool, 3400 armor, maxed out condition damage and purging flames hitting for 10k while cleansing conditions and hallowed ground giving quickness to the team is superior to any wanna be healer that heals less than a DH.

The only reason to stack/have healing power in any guardian build is actually in honor, the only trait or skill worth investing healing power in is in honor, selfless daring. The rest is just a loss of effeciency.

Chorazin.4107:

Brutaly.6257:

while you give up the most important part in this game, damage.

Stability isnt worth spamming, stabiliy is situational so it is of very little interest from a balancing perspective if a FB can spam stab.

Spamming stab with ToC means you are effectively one player down.

From a WvW perspective your support classes are not there to do damage, they are there to provide support for the group. You certainly arnt going to be seeing big DPS numbers from a minstrel Firebrands staff autos lol.

DPS will come from your DPS specced classes, however the group is set up. Epi reapers CoR Rev’s etc.

A full healing/minstrel Tempest does virtually 0 damage, you are hardly a player down having one in your group.

Even though thief is my main now adays i dabble around with war/ele/mes in wvw and i play all of those as support.

Seriously, i dont give up damage on either of those when i play support.

I run banner/shout war in condi gear and it pretty much tears people to pieces.

The only thing i give up on my mes is that i use boon duration runes, which i also do when roaming. So basically i dont give up anything, its my prefered build.

On my ele i dont give up anything when playing support, infact playing wvw support with my ele makes me do more damage.

FB gives up 100% of its damage whn chosing to support no matter what gear you have. I havent seen a single profession in this game that has to do that.

Is there a single player in wvw that actually will run ministrel and why should you ever use ministrel on FB? It effectively renders F1 uselesss to.

Full traiblazers with boon duration runes, and Retreat/SyG and Purging flames/hallowed ground as utilities is probably the best support you can get out of this elite. Quickness and stability is what FB brings to the battle field.

Bring a banner/shout war in apothecary’s gear if you want a healer/condidealer. They have the health pool to use it, FB hasnt.

while you give up the most important part in this game, damage.

Stability isnt worth spamming, stabiliy is situational so it is of very little interest from a balancing perspective if a FB can spam stab.

Spamming stab with ToC means you are effectively one player down.

Might go with boon duration runes as well and use Retreat which also (if traited) gives quickness.

In its current iteration FB will use at least 2 shouts (Retreat and SyG) since they actually hit allies and also provide quickness. I believe most FB will invest in superior aria if going support and i also think trooper runes might be an option and use the condi removal mantra for personal use only.

Shout elite is also better compared to the mantra elite and also provide quickness in a much more reliable fashion.

Tbh i cant se any one using mantras as asupport tool in an affective fashion.

So support will go with 2-3 shouts one mantra for personal use and shelter as heal and renewed focus as elite.

Just make it a beam that pierces and hits multiple enemies and that heal allies in 180 from that beam

1200 range.

Lance of Resolve.

Dirame.8521:

Might be a nerf to Renewed Focus users but those guys need a nerf anyway.

Qft, that single skill and its relative strength is blocking build diversity

mazut.4296:

Brutaly.6257:

Btw, tome cd should start when you cast the tome. And the tome should be reset even if its active. Ie ToJ on kill.

No, because on top of the all standard effects and traits you also get 5 new skills per tome.

The issue is that the number of skills has no relevance at all, its the impact of those skills that matter.

A FB gives up all damage he has when using F2 or F3 and the support it gives isnt any better compared to a vanilla guardian or DH tbh due to having 0 dps while doing it.

It is basically swapping to second weapon (with cast time on the swap and long cast time on the skills) that has zero damage.

If tomes replaced utilities i would agree with you.

I flip the trader and my worst brain fart was when i misread some stuff in the wiki about ingredients in some runes. When i added up the cost for the ingredients i realized that the cost for the ingredients was just a fraction of the cost for the crafted rune on the trader.

Subsequently i bought everything i could find of a certain crafting material to craft runes and sell.

Imagine my surprise when i tried to craft the rune and i couldnt craft it.

that stunt costed me close to 3000 gold….

And this happend last week btw….

Btw, tome cd should start when you cast the tome. And the tome should be reset even if its active. Ie ToJ on kill.

RabbitUp.8294:

Having more mobility won’t make mantras any better in pve. Your group will still be forced to stack on top of one another, which just doesn’t happen in raids and fractals.

I know, that is the reason why i find that having access to 6 blinks in 6 seconds with the elite isnt unbalanced, that and poor survivability in a 5 mantra build.

And i disagree mobility at this level will make the mantras better, you can use 2 blinks to move and support your group at their position.

InsaneQR.7412:

has a sweet burst.

Tbh i actually think using sword 3# is a loss of dps compared to just using the auto, except in burn builds that trigger VoJ.

At least it was a while back but maybe anet buffed it and i just missed the release notes.

Adding a x distance 3*blink to mantras would solve so many innate guardian issues (mobility) and issues in FB (survivability) and it would also make the FB 100% more fun to play. Make the blink distance be determined by the number of mantras equipped. Why not 10per mantra. Making it max 500*3 distance.

Imagine repositioning while supporting.

If they at the same time made the elite mantra reset and recharge all mantras Renewed Focus would have a serious competitor as the elite to use.

If they did this i could actually live with a 300 cone on mantras because i had means to positioning myself.

And it would also give a disengage which is more needed then ever.

any good build is good with the sword.

Radiance/valor/virtues for both valkyrie power builds and dire burning builds. You just swap like 4 traits and armor/trinkets ofc. Sword/torch for burning and sword/focus for power builds.

Shield works better with scepter imo.

I expect they reduce casting on tomes and increase the range in the mantras.

But it might be wishful thinking.

Firebrand in wvw and pvp

To slow and clunky and the mantras isnt effective in a fb build. It actually more impact using shouts in a FB build.

Shelter and renewed focus are better heals then mantras.

The FB has really poor suvivability due to lack of bubbles and no mobility what so ever.

Make tomes instant
Make mantra cones be 90 degrees and 600 range
Make mantra elite reset and recharge all all mantras on final charge.
Make the healing mantra also heal allies
Revamp one of the offensive mantras and make it a 600 blink with three charges.

I had a guild when this game was launched that was named “BitterFittor” and that passed as well and that is a really profane expression in Swedish,. Its an English game, feel free to use any profanity you like as long as its not English.

I mainly do pvp and wvw (the only pve i do is actually getting the elites) but if i did pve only i can say that with the proper build i think Fb might be a beast in open world pve.

In pve you have time to plan skills and its predictable so cast times on tomes and to some extent the small cones on mantras can be handled.

Get some gold from the trader and buy a set of rampagers draconic (an entire armor cost less than 25 gold) and just fire away.

I thought it was very fun playing but with a to high skill cap in pvp and wvw but in pve it will be great fun with Tome of Justice refreshing on each kill.

For pvp and wvw they need to fix at least casting times and cones on mantras in order to be played as some sort of meta.

draxynnic.3719:

RabbitUp.8294:

Knighthonor.4061:

whats bad about the tombs? Was the best part of PoF that I was looking forward to.

Resolve has weak healing, Courage’s only defensive skill is some protection and +300 toughness, but more importantly, extremely long cooldowns (Tome of Resolve 45, Tome of Courage 90s).

Baseline, yes, but you need to look at how they interact with traits.

Loremaster cuts those recharges by a third – so it becomes 30 and 60, respectively, on the order of dragonhunter virtues.

Not gonna answer your whole post since the first few sentences make the rest irrelevant.

No the trait dont reduce the recharges on the tomes. It reduces the recharge on the skills in the tomes.

dusanyu.4057:

Wow, people still complaining about loot stick. Get over it, switch to longbow

Do you think longbow in any way is comparable to staff and used in the same scenarios and game modes?

I dont see the use for a staff on a DH build tbh just as i dont see any longbow ever to be used on a guardian.

will be the number one off hand with FB due to a usable cone attack with aegis.

i tested with both celestial and trailblazer with travaler runes in burn builds in wvw and pvp and i say trailblazers. 20 k health and over 3300 in toughness while almost maixing out condition damage.

Celestials might be nice if you go into honor and take advantage of the healing power or if you trait in zeal for might on the scepter. But if so we are taliing about power builds

I have both in ascended in heavy and i played my guardian a bit the last two weeks and i have to say a burn build with trailblazers is just one tough kitten to kill and can stack burns.

But if only one set is possible in the future as well i have to say celestial, it opens up more options and build diversity.

200 hps and heals every second in passive

Reduce cast time to 0,5 s

Reduce cool down

It would be in many support builds if this was implemented.

That would be nice add a 100% increase in passive resolve and 200% increase in active resolve.

Your change to VoC and the one i suggested would also solve a lot of the issues FB has in the healing/support area. implicitely i mean that your cahnge to VoC should also be made to ToC, a 20% cd-reduction is in order for both Guardian and FB to balance DH.

Guardian Mantra elite skill cant compete with renewed focus which resets the tomes.

Make the mantra elite reset all mantras and recharge them and the elite will be used.

Make the mantra heal (which is weak and personal) also heal allies in a 600 cone infront of the the guardian.

Make skill 2 on the tomes be a blast finisher, We have fields in the tome but no means to trigger them.

Remake one of the mantras so its a blink with three charges, 600 range. FB has to worst mobility of guard/DH and needs it to be able to position for support and since it also has the lowest survivability it also needs it to survive.

Make mantras cone be 600

Make staff 600 again.

Reduce cd on tomes dramatically and make them instant.

Or make the tomes work like kits and with shared pages the recover over time.

If the above isnt done the FB will have limited use in pvp and wvw.

I am all for having a cone in mantras but they have to increase the range. The area of effect in a 300 range cone is about 1/4 of a 600 cone.
A 90 degree cone with 300 range has approx an area of 700 square units
A 90 degree cone with 600 range has approx an area of 2800 square units
A 360 degree circle with 300 range has approx and area of 2800 square units.
A 360 degree circle with 600 range has approx an area of 11300 square units.
So even if function (instant self centered aoe with boons) is similar i think the skill level is very different and that is what sets Mantras apart.
In its current iteration i find Firebrand more effective to play with Shouts instead of Mantras and i think the numbers speak for them self. In a Mantra build SyG is mandatory even though the 5 stacks of stability is bugged with quickness.
The area of effect of the current mantras is 6% of the area of effect of a shout. If the cone is 90 degrees, i cant find any verification of that, and if its 60 degrees its 4%.
Hope i got the math correct.
Make the cone as shield #4 i would be satisfied.
This is the same issue with the nerf to guardian staff, seriously i doubt that anet has done the math here.
As Mantras work now they are for personal use only.
Food for thoughts.

mantras isnt a frontline support in design, its infact midrange. If its frontline support that is intended shouts are better, on a mantra build.

Mantras has to be the most selfish tools a guardian/memser can use in wvw/pvp in its current iteration.

Skuzz.6580:

All this comparing Mantra’s to shouts in terms of reach (cone vs radius) has to be getting old… They are 2 different type of skills, stop comparing them like that. Mantra effects can be applied more frequently and are generally stronger.

I agree, and much will with you that the range of the cone could do with a buff, but it should never ever become anywhere close to the radius of shouts (in their current power level).

no they are not stronger since the two main shouts we are talking about trigger quickness in a huge radius two are stun breakers and one clears the allies from condis. All of them can also remove two condis in a 600 radius per use if traited. The last one also gives protection which is a boon FB lacks. Add in 100% uptime on swiftness to that which FB has to blow the tomes to get.

Very few fb builds will be played with mantras at all, they are weak compared to other utilities.

Dont even compare the impact of shouts compared to mantras, it can even be argued that mantras are weaker then shouts even with 600 radius.

It isnt cone versus radius as you put it.

It is that the mantras with the small area of effect (6% of a shout) isnt worth using as a support tool other in a very stationary pve scenario.

I think they should be cones and the fact is that a 90 degree 600 range cone has the same area of effect as 360 degree 300 ranged spell.

Sure you get one more boon out over 2 seconds if you use them three times compared to a shout that gives two boons instant.

Does that warrant that a shout has 1661% larger area of effect?

SyG and Retreat are better to use in a mantra build then any mantra a FB has. Guaranteed 6 stacks of quickness in a 600 radius. This is the issue, why use mantras when shouts is better support in a FB build!

What we need to compare is the impact in the battlefield and if we do that comparison mantras are far behind shouts, even if we make the cone 1200 range and 90 degrees. If we made them that they would have the same area of effect as shouts but still with the restriction of a cone that needs to be positioned.

I am all for having a cone in mantras but they have to increase the range. The area of effect in a 300 range cone is about 1/4 of a 600 cone.

A 90 degree cone with 300 range has approx an area of 700 square units
A 90 degree cone with 600 range has approx an area of 2800 square units
A 360 degree circle with 300 range has approx and area of 2800 square units.
A 360 degree circle with 600 range has approx an area of 11300 square units.

So even if function (instant self centered aoe with boons) is similar i think the skill level is very different and that is what sets Mantras apart.

In its current iteration i find Firebrand more effective to play with Shouts instead of Mantras and i think the numbers speak for them self. In a Mantra build SyG is mandatory even though the 5 stacks of stability is bugged with quickness.

The area of effect of the current mantras is 6% of the area of effect of a shout. If the cone is 90 degrees, i cant find any verification of that, and if its 60 degrees its 4%.

Hope i got the math correct.

Make the cone as shield #4 i would be satisfied.

This is the same issue with the nerf to guardian staff, seriously i doubt that anet has done the math here.

As Mantras work now they are for personal use only.

Food for thoughts.

Aeolus.3615:

wich will make the DB rendered to useless if is beign targeted and trying to kite from anemies, all that support goes burned aways.

those….6% make me wonder i was being more useless to my group than i tough when i had to use some skill that were not helping the closest allies :\

Tbh the skill level to use mantras is absurd. But if you succeed (lots of variables that has to align) doing it properly the outcome can be hysterical.

I played an AH build with SyG and 4 mantras in pvp and i wish i had recorded it, i made some great come backs from almost zero health to almost full health pool.

At a couple of occasions me and and a friend was on point and got attacked by 3 or 4 attackers. Spamming aegis for like 5 seconds while they were buring their burst, popped mantras for regen, aegis and stability, popped ToJ for some insance aoe burn, popped ToR placed the water field, swapped to hammer and triggered it and swapped axe for some damage.

We were freaking standing there with full health and got 4 down in 10 seconds. This wasnt the norm though but i think it showed me the potential for firebrand at those few occasions. The issue is that the mantras is just to difficult to use in a dynamic environment. Everything have to allign for them to actually work.

I topped both damage and healing in most my games as well. The reason for that is that i very seldom actually used all my skills/pages in the tomes, in ToR i used max two skills (water field and skill one.)

Farzo.8410:

Brutaly.6257:

Also a route to go, would love it.

Make the axe auto 300 ranged, the symbol 900 ranged jump with symbol when landing and 600 range on skill 3.

Remove cd on tomes to compensate for one weapon only and global usage of pages.

Great, good to go…

Can’t remove cooldowns because of other traitlines that pop stuff when we activate profession F mechanics.

Need to have CD on them.

Ofc we can, just set internal cooldowns on those things that triggers on activation.

Or set the cooldown on swapping, lets say you can only swap every 5s. If the amount of retal/might/aegis/protection is to much just balance the duration/stacking in FB. Just like they actually have done in tome CD that are increased in fb compared to vanilla.

It a matter of will, not that it cant be done.

To be honest, I don’t agree with the idea of removing weapon swap for Firebrands, and there’s one simple reason for that. Not everyone who takes firebrands wants to build into or use tomes exclusively. Some might want to focus on more core builds but supported by Firebrand traits (for example, I can see quickness focused builds that focus less on tomes being a thing).

One thing we need in this game is more build options, not less, and pigeonholing players into using tomes more exclusively is not the way to go.

That being said, one viable alternative I could see being implemented is a trait that causes you to lose weapon swap, but greatly reduces tome cooldown. That way, those who want to focus more exclusively on tomes can do so, while those who don’t can keep their versatility and simply avoid said trait.

My personal opinion, however, is that tomes should simply get a cooldown reduction, without any sacrifices to accommodate it (nothing too severe, but enough to make Tome of Resolve and Courage more usable). As it is, you already sacrifice a lot simply by activating the tome because of their very focused skill sets (for example using tome of justice means losing access to defensive tools, etc, while using tome of courage of resolve means losing access to damage).

i agree with your post that it might be bad forcing people to skip swap.

I find your suggestion interesting that it can be done with a trait but the cd-reduction has to be rather big if its implemented so there can be some interesting cycles in the swapping.

RabbitUp.8294:

Brutaly.6257:

Also a route to go, would love it.

Make the axe auto 300 ranged, the symbol 900 ranged jump with symbol when landing and 600 range on skill 3.

Remove cd on tomes to compensate for one weapon only and global usage of pages.

Great, good to go…

My issue with the axe is the cast time on the symbol, I don’t think they need to change any skills.

A good place to add a short range teleport would be #3 on tome of resolve, Azure Sun, so that it’s always accessible for firebrand regardless of weapon and since it feels like a bland skill.

If we trade weapon swap i believe the axe has to be some what ranged for it to work with FB. Not the tomes but the mantras screams “mid ranged weapon”.

I would prefer the teleport on a mantra instead, 600 leap with three charges and that the mantra elite reset cd and recharged all mantras on the third charge. As it stands now all will go with RF as elite to recharge the tomes.

Adding in even more functionality (blick) in the tomes would even more force us to once again use RF.

Play the exact same build with vanilla and DH and its pretty sweet.

When i play vanilla i swap DH for zeal/virtues (depending on mood) and use sword/scepter. Played 5 games last night and topped damage and/or kills in all of them, even the two games i got steamrolled in.

Zeal/radiance/valor is just mean with scepter.

Valkyrie and radiance is pure love tbh.

Just make them like skill 4 on shield.

I had a similar suggestion adding a teleport to a mantra but this would do as well.

For the support to work properly in FB we need some sort of teleport for positioning.

Also a route to go, would love it.

Make the axe auto 300 ranged, the symbol 900 ranged jump with symbol when landing and 600 range on skill 3.

Remove cd on tomes to compensate for one weapon only and global usage of pages.

Great, good to go…

A mantra with 300 range and 360 degrees aoe has 25% area of a shout.

Seriously what is the problem. Range and cone have to have same practical impact as a shout.
90 degree and 600 range or 300 in 360 degree is an absolute requirement for the mantras to be used. And even with one of those setups they worse compared to shouts.

Aeolus.3615:

Brutaly.6257, doesn’t that sounds like a fusion of shouts and meditations in one skill?

I see why they gave cone to mantras, they dont want FB to be a frontliner, its to help players to find a god positions behind alies, even so for what i noticed the cone was to tigh, needs at least 140-160 upwards.

OR make shout works in a 140-160 arc cone and give the 360 from shouts to mantras as trade off,and then buff shoutsa bit more (to avoid making mantras and meditations the only way to play the game…. :])

Tbh its not the cone that i am having issues with, its the total area of effect.

I am all for having a cone but they have to increase the range. the area of effect in a 300 range cone is about 1/4 of a 600 cone.

Make the cone as shield #4 i would be satisfied.

A 90 degree cone with 300 range has approx an area of 700 square units

A 90 degree cone with 600 range has approx an area of 2800 square units

A 360 degree circle with 300 range has approx and area of 2800 square units.

A 360 degree circle with 600 range has approx an area of 11300 square units.

So even if function (instant self centered aoe with boons) is similar i think the skill level is very different and that is what sets Mantras apart.

In its current iteration i find FB more effective to play with Shouts instead of Mantras and i think the numbers speak for them self. In a Mantra build SyG is mandatory even though the 5 stacks of stability is bugged with quickness.

Hope i got the math correct.

EDIT the area of effect of the current mantras is 6% of the area of effect of a shout. If the cone is 90 degrees, i cant find any verification of that and if its 60 degrees its 4%.

Food for thoughts.

Increase passive VoR with 100%
Increase active VoR with 200%
Fix staff as a working weapon in all game modes. Just copy some of the water skills ele has and we are good to go.
Move the passive effect from the trait “loremaster” to “Absolute Resolution”
The above would address some of the core issues and when traiting for FB/DH this will enhance the FB/DH as well.
Loremaster is changed so it reduces skills cooldown with 33% AND the cooldown on the tomes with 30-50%. Keep the tome cd as they are but give us a mean to reduce the cd.
Make tomes instant casts. Keep the skills as they are. The option to reduce cd dramatically will make the tomes stronger. And if you want the even stronger just use RF as the elite skill.
We got combofields in all the tomes but no finishers. Easy solution is to add a blast finisher to skill 2 in all the tomes. Then it would be possible to have a water field up and by swapping tomes trigger it three times. Healing issue solved, great at stacking might even though some what lackluster in the light field but i can live with that.
This solves the entire issue we have with poor healing.

Make them all 360.

Make Mantra of truth a 600 ground targeted blink that applies swiftness. Remove the cover condis, its just for pvp and roaming in wvw. Adding this would be great for all game modes considering the meager range on mantras, even if they were 360.

Make Mantra of Libration also reset and recharge all mantras on the third charge. RF is the prefered elite in FB and making this change would make me skip RF for MoL.

Make Mantra of Solace also heal allies.

These 4 changes would improve the FB greatly in mobility but also increase the value of the weak third charges since you can recharge them.

Alteran.9510:

Brutaly.6257:

One of the mantras (damage ones) should be a 600 teleport that could be used three times and also adding swiftness to allies. Considering the limited range on mantras and tomes it neccessay to be able to move around, especially in wvw/pvp where its close to impossible to predict enemy movements and sometimes the allies as well.

This alone would solve so many issues with the FB in its current iteration.

If you take away the damage of the skill than it could be done. If not guardian gets a enormous pimped sword 2 blink.

Ofc no damage, i ment it a as a mobility skill hence the swiftness. Having damage as well would make it OP as you implicitely write.

I think it should be ground targeted btw. So it can be used effectively in a defensive way as well.

If the elite mantra also got added cd and that it resets and recharges all equipped mantras it would also be a good substitute for RF as elite skill and further improve mobility which FB lack.