Guild Wars 2

this would add a new playstyle to the Guardian. The back line AOE/support (condi removal/heal) guardian. It would also make us able to control areas in a decent way, something that anet wanted us to do but never delivered upon.

Make all the symbol traits (which is scattered all over the place) to also improve marks and there will be a clear synergy with existing weapons and traits.

Add a small aoe burst heal (1k) to one of the grandmaster traits in DH when placing a mark.

Add a master traits in DH that removes condis when inside a mark. One per tick, three ticks.

Say hello to the Zeal/Honor/DH guardian.
This would make me use DH/LB/Marks in at least wvw.

This requires a minimum of effort and would make a ton of difference.

Its really weird that they scattered the symbol traits the same way they did on the necro marks. I can understand it since a necro can equip tons of marks but a guardian never has access to more than 2 symbols which makes the investment in pure symbol builds just to great. The above would actually address that issue as well.

Even though OP comes on a bit to strong i can just agree.

LB/traps/DH isnt competitive in any kind of game mode.

There is only one reason to ever equip a LB and that is to get the aoe from skill 4 and 5 in wvw and even that isnt true. Staff with a burn build is a much better aoe weapon as burning is designed at the moment.

Some might find the LB to be fun but its not in any way or form competitive due to the relative strength of the other traitlines, valor, virtues, radiance and honor in particular.

Nike.2631:

Huh. Unstickied… without a fresh update from the designer.

Weird to unsticky their own feedback thread. Hmm.
At least we should get some sort of response to all the feedback and then they can lock it.

@Black Box
Sorry i cant see any answer so i assume its been moderated or you just removed it your self, either way you answered it now.

And they would do an equally good job with a change to our core abilities and other stuff would improve as well.

Sorry, its not realistic to think that they should add 2k heals to all our utilities, and add the appropriate traits, since this is the main reason people take MF, the rest is pure icing on the cake.

What i suggest would bring stuff closer to par with a minimum of changes. And if done properly AH/MF builds would be just as strong.

Promoting status quo in MF/Ah will never ever (at least not within the next three years based on anet track record) bring signets, traps, consecrations, shouts and spirit weapons on par.

People that keep on promoting the approach you are just slow down the process. But i think you are aware of that as well but if you think its the proper way ithen so be it.

Bezagron.7352:

Having this base increase of survivability would also indirectly help the Dragonhunter.

great post and i couldnt agree more.

The part i quoted is the reason why i think this matter is on topic.

Saiyan.1704:

Brutaly.6257:

Black Box.9312:

Brutaly.6257:

Black Box.9312:

Brutaly.6257:

Black Box.9312:

In order to make the class competitive without Valor, they’d have to go beyond undoing every healing/sustain nerf we’ve ever received,

All they have to do (an example) is to make passive resolve the same as warrior passive healing from their signet and buff the active to heal for 4k.

If they do that i wont ever again trait into valor for medis, even though i will use medi utilities in my builds when i go for burst builds.

There is nothing wrong with medis as utilities and they are pretty much in balance with both consecrations and shouts. Signets and SW are behind as we all know. Its having more or less 10k instant heals that makes them unbalanced with other lines and utilities.

Make them heal for 1k innate and let monks focus give you swiftness (instead of heals) for 15s when using a medi. That would help both roamers and burst builds greatly.

And this is on topic. I think asking for changes that makes DH in balance with valor or virtues is unrealistic due to the strength they have. Seriously i would need some sort of tactical nuke in DH-traits to ever use it in pvp or wvw, substituted for valor or virtues.

Its much more realistic to ask for one nerf (AH/MF) and one serious buff to innate capabilities. As you your self say Anet isnt known for buffing guardians so why ask for buffs to almost all utilities and all traitlines.

What do you think we have the best chance of achieving?

Adress the issue which is overall survivability due to long cd on heals and low health pool.

I don’t think you’re getting the point here. AH and MF are by no means overpowered to begin with.

No i think you are not getting the point.

Im not saying they are overpowered or even powerful.

I say as long as they are as relatively strong compared to the other utilities and traitlines they prevent build diversity.

If you reply to my posts please at least read them.

Straightforward question:
If virtue of resolve gave you 365 hps passive and 4k heals active and medis gave you 1k heals per use would you be more or less inclined to use other utilities and traitlines? Ofc you would be more inclined and that is actually my point. Not that medi or AH is overpowered.

If you nerf AH/MF, you remove our ability to be competitive running builds that use those traits. If you buff other traits/skills, you have still removed our ability to be competitive running builds that use those traits.

If you’re insisting that you’re not labeling them as OP, then what purpose would nerfing them serve? The best-case scenario would be that they’d just go out of fashion entirely, and then you will have accomplished nothing other than rotating the meta to the next 1-2 builds.

Just don’t cry for nerfs on something when it’s not overpowered. I really don’t see where there is difficulty in understanding this.

If for instance VoR was buffed and MF nerfed the absolute effectiveness of a medi guard compared to other professions would be kept intact.

BUT the relative effectiveness of the medi guard compared to our other utilities would be reduced.

I asked you a straightforward question, why not answer it as Arken did. If you do i believe that you get the point im trying to make.

This scenario reminds me of a AH Rabid build utilizing Zealous Scepter and Zealous Blade for heals.

You’ll gain more sustains throughout the fight but the moment you get bursted down, you wont have that medi burst heals to save you. It’s like this AH Rabid build, it wouldn’t work as well as you think it would.

Further more, once you use AR for condi clears, (usually early in the fight if you or your team gets condi bombed) you’ll no longet gain the passive heals. Kind of sounds counter productive to me.

The numbers are examples to illustrate something. Im sure if anet just gets a push in this direction they could figure it out.

But for the sake of the argument 1k heals on medis would make the guardian loose out on 5k . Imo 200 extra hps and 2+2k extra through VoR is pretty much imo. And it would open up bunker/condi guards.

For each 5s of fight the passive would fully compensate for the reduced heal on medis given the fight last 15 sec and you need all utility 3 medis. If you are used to cleanse with AR twice during that time you loose out on the passive but get two actives which heals you and the team for 8k, 4k being the addon on in my suggestion. I thin this would play out as an absolute buff to medi guardians but a relative nerf to medis.

Btw i use CoP and smite conditions on my burst guard prior to AR. AR being on long cd and i only get to use it twice (refresh thru elite) no matter how long the fight is. SC and sometimes CoP can be used twice. If played like that you would get much more out of the passive and also increased burst heal with back to back VoR.

The above would be further enhanced by traiting absolute resolution.

Imo this could actually inrease the burst healing in medis even though it requires a different rotation.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Short of that however they could somewhat copy the effects of monks focus into other traits in other trait lines.

The problem is that it requires both an adjustment in the traits and that it has to be tied to the utilities. If not the relative power of the medis would remain intact and nothing would actually change.

Black Box.9312:

Brutaly.6257:

Black Box.9312:

Brutaly.6257:

Black Box.9312:

In order to make the class competitive without Valor, they’d have to go beyond undoing every healing/sustain nerf we’ve ever received,

All they have to do (an example) is to make passive resolve the same as warrior passive healing from their signet and buff the active to heal for 4k.

If they do that i wont ever again trait into valor for medis, even though i will use medi utilities in my builds when i go for burst builds.

There is nothing wrong with medis as utilities and they are pretty much in balance with both consecrations and shouts. Signets and SW are behind as we all know. Its having more or less 10k instant heals that makes them unbalanced with other lines and utilities.

Make them heal for 1k innate and let monks focus give you swiftness (instead of heals) for 15s when using a medi. That would help both roamers and burst builds greatly.

And this is on topic. I think asking for changes that makes DH in balance with valor or virtues is unrealistic due to the strength they have. Seriously i would need some sort of tactical nuke in DH-traits to ever use it in pvp or wvw, substituted for valor or virtues.

Its much more realistic to ask for one nerf (AH/MF) and one serious buff to innate capabilities. As you your self say Anet isnt known for buffing guardians so why ask for buffs to almost all utilities and all traitlines.

What do you think we have the best chance of achieving?

Adress the issue which is overall survivability due to long cd on heals and low health pool.

I don’t think you’re getting the point here. AH and MF are by no means overpowered to begin with.

No i think you are not getting the point.

Im not saying they are overpowered or even powerful.

I say as long as they are as relatively strong compared to the other utilities and traitlines they prevent build diversity.

If you reply to my posts please at least read them.

Straightforward question:
If virtue of resolve gave you 365 hps passive and 4k heals active and medis gave you 1k heals per use would you be more or less inclined to use other utilities and traitlines? Ofc you would be more inclined and that is actually my point. Not that medi or AH is overpowered.

If you nerf AH/MF, you remove our ability to be competitive running builds that use those traits. If you buff other traits/skills, you have still removed our ability to be competitive running builds that use those traits.

If you’re insisting that you’re not labeling them as OP, then what purpose would nerfing them serve? The best-case scenario would be that they’d just go out of fashion entirely, and then you will have accomplished nothing other than rotating the meta to the next 1-2 builds.

Just don’t cry for nerfs on something when it’s not overpowered. I really don’t see where there is difficulty in understanding this.

If for instance VoR was buffed and MF nerfed the absolute effectiveness of a medi guard compared to other professions would be kept intact.

BUT the relative effectiveness of the medi guard compared to our other utilities would be reduced.

I asked you a straightforward question, why not answer it as Arken did. If you do i believe that you get the point im trying to make.

Arken.3725:

I’d absolutely consider giving up Monk’s Focus if that was the case .

You proved my point.

but the big problem is that the only reason why that works for Warrior is because of their large health pool and long-duration invuls. Guardian’s lack both of these to sustain in the same way.

Virtue of resolve was just an example to prove a point. Maybe the solution is a larger healthpool and stronger passive/active on VoR.
Regarding invuls i disagree, i play war/guard mainly and i find our blocks and blinds to be even more powerful, in pvp especially.

My DH build would be honor, virtues and DH. Increased symbol size for the win.

But maybe you need them, combine the stronger VoR with the weaker MF than. I know i wouldnt. I would have at least one signet in my burst build for sure.

The thing is that such a solution is way easier to advocate and implement than adding 2k heals on each and every utility and ofc as a grand master trait. Which is pretty much what people are saying, me included.

Black Box.9312:

Brutaly.6257:

Black Box.9312:

In order to make the class competitive without Valor, they’d have to go beyond undoing every healing/sustain nerf we’ve ever received,

All they have to do (an example) is to make passive resolve the same as warrior passive healing from their signet and buff the active to heal for 4k.

If they do that i wont ever again trait into valor for medis, even though i will use medi utilities in my builds when i go for burst builds.

There is nothing wrong with medis as utilities and they are pretty much in balance with both consecrations and shouts. Signets and SW are behind as we all know. Its having more or less 10k instant heals that makes them unbalanced with other lines and utilities.

Make them heal for 1k innate and let monks focus give you swiftness (instead of heals) for 15s when using a medi. That would help both roamers and burst builds greatly.

And this is on topic. I think asking for changes that makes DH in balance with valor or virtues is unrealistic due to the strength they have. Seriously i would need some sort of tactical nuke in DH-traits to ever use it in pvp or wvw, substituted for valor or virtues.

Its much more realistic to ask for one nerf (AH/MF) and one serious buff to innate capabilities. As you your self say Anet isnt known for buffing guardians so why ask for buffs to almost all utilities and all traitlines.

What do you think we have the best chance of achieving?

Adress the issue which is overall survivability due to long cd on heals and low health pool.

I don’t think you’re getting the point here. AH and MF are by no means overpowered to begin with.

No i think you are not getting the point.

Im not saying they are overpowered or even powerful.

I say as long as they are as relatively strong compared to the other utilities and traitlines they prevent build diversity.

If you reply to my posts please at least read them.

Straightforward question:
If virtue of resolve gave you 365 hps passive and 4k heals active and medis gave you 1k heals per use would you be more or less inclined to use other utilities and traitlines? Ofc you would be more inclined and that is actually my point. Not that medi or AH is overpowered.

Arken.3725:

@Brutaly

Essentially when you have nothing better to compare it to from the profession therein, it may seem OP because that’s all you have.

Read above, i dont think they are overpowered but i do think its essential to nerf them while buffing innate capabilities in order to improve build diversity.

Imo guardians has never been in a worse spot when it comes to build diversity. In pvp and wvw there is simply close to zero choices when it comes builds: One burn build, one burst build and one zerg build. All of them uses valor and virtues.

Hammer being one of the weapons that synergize best with AH, valor would be my choice.

Zeal, if thet moved all symbol traits into that line..

As it is now i pretty much make hammer pvp/wvw builds obsolete since it compete with one of the bestpvp/wvw traits we have.

And the trait is an absolute necessity if you want to play your hammer as an offensive tool.

Black Box.9312:

In order to make the class competitive without Valor, they’d have to go beyond undoing every healing/sustain nerf we’ve ever received,

All they have to do (an example) is to make passive resolve the same as warrior passive healing from their signet and buff the active to heal for 4k.

If they do that i wont ever again trait into valor for medis, even though i will use medi utilities in my builds when i go for burst builds.

There is nothing wrong with medis as utilities and they are pretty much in balance with both consecrations and shouts. Signets and SW are behind as we all know. Its having more or less 10k instant heals that makes them unbalanced with other lines and utilities.

Make them heal for 1k innate and let monks focus give you swiftness (instead of heals) for 15s when using a medi. That would help both roamers and burst builds greatly.

And this is on topic. I think asking for changes that makes DH in balance with valor or virtues is unrealistic due to the strength they have. Seriously i would need some sort of tactical nuke in DH-traits to ever use it in pvp or wvw, substituted for valor or virtues.

Its much more realistic to ask for one nerf (AH/MF) and one serious buff to innate capabilities. As you your self say Anet isnt known for buffing guardians so why ask for buffs to almost all utilities and all traitlines.

What do you think we have the best chance of achieving?

Adress the issue which is overall survivability due to long cd on heals and low health pool.

Obtena.7952:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Obtena.7952:

Brutaly is right and I’ve seen it time and again in all kinds of MMO’s. As long as Medi is THAT good, that’s all we gonna get and everything else is going to be balanced around that point, ensuring that any build where you don’t use Valor will be subpar in PVP. If you’re satisfied with that, keep denying it needs to be changed. If you’re not, you see why it’s a problem.

I can almost agree with you, but one problem is that Medi is not THAT good. It is just good, and that makes it a better offensive build than our other options.

Regardless of what level of good you want to put it at, it’s still our standard and everything is still balanced around it. Therefore …

This!!!

Medi/AH isnt that good.

The issue is that EVERY COMPETITIVE wvw and pvp build revolve around them.

This reduces build diversity and the fun in playing the profession.
Its easier to nerf one/two trait (monks focus/AH) and improve our healing (an example) skills than buffing ALL our utilities and still dont address the underlying issue.

I get it that some dont like their working builds to be messed up but if not, nothing will really change since Anet wont have the metrics or experience to properly understand whats really wrong with guardian.

It doesnt matter if:

We get faster casting on signets
Get to keep the passive on signet when on CD
Increase vit on spirit weapons
Increase size of Sanctuary,

All has been suggested but non of them would change the fact that medi/AH is mandatory in wvw and pvp. Not even if you combine them!!!

Nerf medi/ah and after that correct the real issue.

Black Box.9312:

Brutaly.6257:

And nerf meditations (-25%) and AH (-35) but let AH apply the heal to allies as well. This will open up for more builds where DH with traps can play a role.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

Nerfing effective builds in attempts to level them with ineffective builds just renders the whole class obsolete. This is a horrendous idea.

I totally agree. That is the exact point. That will show devs and players whats really wrong with the guardian and that its not in a good state.

And as i said in my previous post, its the fastest way to:
1 Balance traitlines and open up for more diversity
2 identifying and implementing innate capabilities to compensate.

This is how you effectively handle imbalances in business, you dont reinforce the weak stuff first, you balance the strong stuff and have a plan on how to fix the foundation when you got balance. Any other route just waste resources and work as patches.

x indigo x.6981:

Brutaly.6257:

And nerf meditations (-25%) and AH (-35) but let AH apply the heal to allies as well. This will open up for more builds where DH can play a role.
.

I COMPLETELY disagree with this approach. Meditatations are storng because they address EXACTLY the weakness of a guardian (mobility, low vitality, lack of condi clear on weapons, and general low percision)

The approach you’re suggesting to nerf good traits in order to make lesser traits have more play is very much the essence of wrong.

Well i disagree. The option is to buff all other traitlines to balance with valor. And they still wont adress the real issue. That guardian lack innate capabilities.

And its not a nerf to meditations as skills, its a nerf to the heal. One component that can be adressed byt for instance:
Larger healthpool
Increased passive regen from virtues
CD on self heals.

All the solutions above which fully could compensate for a nerf to medi/AH heals requires a minimum of changes.

To balance medi/AH with other traitlines requires all other traitlines to be buffed with survivability. And in order to do that it has to be done to alterations of the utility skills. If its not tied to utilities the relative imbalance will remain and medi/AH will be equally strong.

So the fastest way to open up for build diversity is to nerf medis and buff innate survivability. Its also the route that demands the least resources and time ti implement.

Cool stuff and som nice changes BUT:

Traps still dont fit your own goal with DH, increased ability to ranged combat. The traps being melee just dont fit with the theme of the LB or your own vision of the specialization.

Survivability lacks in the DH traitline which menas if you go DH you are more or less forced to use Valor (medi/AH) in pvp/wvw to get some survivability thru heals and condiclear. This leaves pretty much one traitline open and tbh virtues outshine both radiance and zeal. My point is that build diversity is just super low due to the innate strength of valor in particular. If you want people to play builds that arent gimmicks you need to adress the lack of condiclear and heals in DH.

The virtues still needs to be adressed, there is less point in traiting DH if you invested in virtues. Not that its redundant but DH effectively destroys whats good with the virtues, they are instant.

Keep them instant as they were but lower execution speed on dh virtues if you need to balance it. You said you wanted more back line support but in its current iteration you reduced it

Increase range on wings of resolve to at least 900. You clearly stated that you wanted to add some mobility to DH and the current range isnt that with the freeze when casting and the freeze when landing.

Thief got some interesting GM traits in their new elite specialization. They can choose what the dodge roll does. Implement the same on DH but with trap unique traits.

What about?
1. When you place a trap your allies loose 2 conditions and heal allies for x amount in a 600 radius. CD is reduced with 20%
2. Traps are instant casting. When you place a trap you apply condition x in a 300 radius and remove one condition on allies (stunbreaker). CD is reduced with 20%
3. Traps have 1200 range and CD is reduced with 20%

And nerf meditations (-25%) and AH (-35) but let AH apply the heal to allies as well. This will open up for more builds where DH with traps can play a role.

With poor survivability in DH and casting time on virtues it will never have a place in wvw and pvp other than a gimmick build.

Assic.2746:

This is sick guys! It pierces and deals hell of a lot dmg. It cannot be unblockable.

Ofc it can if the guardian is rooted while casting. Both terrain and dodging will prevent it from hitting.

And seriously, it doesnt do that much damage imo.

You can remove the guide i wrote.

Considering the state of the guardian and lack of build diversity for wvw and tpvp there is no need for build guides.

Unless something remarkable happens in HoT i wont update the guide.

Just replace hunter fortification (kittenty trait) with a trait that makes them ranged and give the caster a 1,5k aoe heal and they are good to go. Both ranged and sustain, fixed.

Been quiet so far but after letting BWE and dragon hunter to sink in i feel that its time to write some feedback.

I also read in the necro forum that other stuff than elite specializations also where under review, like their scepter and axe so i will adress other issues as well. DH isnt a stand alone traitline.

My feedback has its background in Tpvp and WvW mostly.

As you read thru this wall of text you will find that i added a lot of healing (self and party) but read to the end before you judge. Im trying to adress what i think is the main flaw with guardian. One or two traitlines being mandatory due to lack of survivability. Im looking at you, valor and virtues.

Karl McLain.5604:

While the changes listed are the ones you’ll be seeing in the next beta weekend, we haven’t stopped making changes as we work to improve the Dragonhunter specialization. Here’s a few more changes we’ve been playing with for the longbow.

Puncture Shot: Arrow velocity is slow! We’re looking at increasing it so that it’s less strafe-able. What we’ve got it at is ~66% increase, putting it at around Hip Shot (engineer rifle) velocity. We’re also looking at the base and bounce functionality.

True Shot: To make this ability more rewarding for stopping you in place, we’re looking at further increasing the damage.

Deflecting Shot: We’re looking at increasing the damage values of this ability, so that it has a bit more impact to it.

Symbol of Energy: It’s really hard to place this in a position on allies/enemies without them being gone by the time the arrow gets there. Upping the missile velocity by ~60% and allowing it to be fired behind you.

Thanks for your constructive feedback, everyone. I’ve got to head out for now. We’ll be back with more stuff, like traits, soon.

-Karl

Bow
Good changes besides Deflecting Shot. The thing/flaw with this skill isnt related to damage mainly, its the mechanics that makes it no fun and very luck based.

One way to go would be to make it channeled over lets say 3 seconds and during that time it blocks projectiles in a wider area while dealing damage in the same area. Since DH is about support at range (as i have understood it) a healing component would be nice. Let it also heal in the same area.

An even more appealing option would be to make Deflecting Shot a teleport with lets say 900 range. But hoping for this much needed addition might be a bit overoptimistic.

Cooldowns are nice in the bow with the exception of skill 5. Reduce it dramatically. Also reverse how it works, the fence has to be setup at the start of the skill. The number of times we put empty garden fences due to the order of effects is astounding. While garden fences are pretty thats not what the game is all about.

In a perfect world the auto should be a 3 step chain with each step applying a short lasting condition, cripple being one of them. The arrow shouldn’t be forced to bounce to apply cripple.

Virtues
Make virtues instant with DH, with no exception. In wvw and pvp anything but instant is a nerf to the original virtues. Increase the range on Wings of resolve. Make shield of courage to block ALL attacks.

Reduce CD on all virtues, 20/40/60 should be baseline

Traps
Make traps ranged and instantly placed. Not as baseline. Here you have Hunters fortification which is just awful that could be replaced with the new trait, “Master Hunter”, which allows for ranged traps and also have a self centered aoe heal, 1,5k.

Swap places on Dulled Senses and Virtuous Action. Seriously if you want to play bow you shouldn’t be forced top play with the new virtues. It reduces the fun and diversity. Several weapons can knockback so dulled senses isnt weapon specific and hence perfect as a mandatory minor trait.

Traits for DH
Heavy Light and Dulled Senses are two traits that m,ust be used together. This reduces diversity. The above suggested change to Dulled senses would solve this with minimal effort.

Hunter determination is a gimmick and non supportive. Change it so every time true shot is used allies in its path, 180 on each side of the trajectory, receives stability. Now we are talking back line support and a need for positioning.

Piercing light shouldn’t apply bleed, it should apply burns. Bleeds are for rangers and burns are thematically for guardian.

Merge Big Game hunter and Virtous Action and make the new virtues add 5% damage with no prerequisite.

Pure damage traits show a lack of imagination. Replace big game hunter with something fun that actually changes gameplay.

Vanilla weapons
Mace
Increase speed on step 3 in the chain, its clunky.

Shield
Just fix it, there is tons of feedback, just use it.

Focus
Excellent design and fun

Greatsword
Remove the root on the symbol

Hammer
Implement the same QoL changes that you added to warrior hammer. Its very difficult to understand why guardians didnt get the same changes when the animations were the exact same. With the tin foil hat on one might think that guardians deserve less of Quality of Life. :-)
Increase speed on step 3 in the chain and remove one tick on symbol of protection.

Staff
Remove the root on Empower

Sword
Remove the short root at the end of the animation on skill 2. In persue you dont actually blink to the opponent if he runs away from you but land just out of range due to the freeze.
Remove the root on #3

Scepter
What ever projectile speed you find good on the LB should be on scepter 1. They have the exact same issues and deserve the exact same solution.

Torch
The changes you brought in the new traits made this weapon really nice and powerful.

Vanilla Virtues
Decrease CD on all of them. 20/40/60 sound fair.
Increase the passive effect on virtue of resolve by a fair amount.

Vanilla Traits
Zeal
Move all symbol traits to Honor. We are talking about maximum 2 symbols in two different sets and in order to play a symbol build you need to invest in two different traitlines.
Zealous Scepter could add a projectile speed increase (if a change to baseline speed is over powered even though prefered) and should add a cool down reduction to scepter.
Zealous Blade should heal on all weapon attacks not just GS.

Radiance
Perfect inscriptions isnt strong enough to encourage signet builds. Add that the passive effect of the signet is maintained while the signet is on cool down AND 1,5k aoe heal when using a signet.

Valor
Make altruistic healing also heal allies in 600 radius. Atm its not on par with Monks Focus and it tries to offer the same thing, self healing. Making it a purely supportive trait would make it more balanced with Monks Focus.
Remove internal cd on might of the protector. It was fine before and it would be fine now.

Honor
Buff Selfless Daring. We loose out on 300 in healing with the new traitsystem so add 300 healing as baseline to Selfless Daring.
Condipressure just increases in this game. Make Pure of Voice remove 2 conditions (So its at least better than the trooper runes that everyone can have.) and add a 1k self centered aoe heal with the same radius as the shout.
Writ of Persistence. Increase baseline size on all the symbols, skills should work without traiting, and increase the healing dramatically from the trait. Anet has claimed the guardians is about area control and symbols could be such a tool if there were sustain in them.

Virtues
Move Glacial Heart to T2 Valor. Its fits better there (being one of the best AH weapons) and its also a huge nerf to hammer to let Glacial Heart compete with Supreme Justice and Absolute Resolution.
Battle Presence should allow for the passive effect of Virtue of resolve when is its on CD.

Why all the healing
The thing is that Valor in particular is to strong compared to the other lines when it comes to offering sustain. This makes meditations almost mandatory even though AH builds in some scenarios can compete. And both of these are found in valor.

Add to that that most of the condi removal and stun breakers are found in virtues. This leaves us that most if not all competitive tpvp and wvw build must contain these to full lines.

The solution isnt to nerf MF and AH but to add sustain in other lines, open up for more diversity in build. If the added survivability was added mainly to utility skills there wouldnt be any stacking of skills (limited number of utility skill) and even though all this healing was added the effective amount of healing wouldnt increase. Just diversity in how you could apply the healing.

I have excluded spirit weapons in this review since i have given up on them completely and also consecrations. The reason i excluded consecrations is that they are both offense and defense and i couldn’t come up with an easy fix. Consecrations are also in virtues and could fall under the increase of the passive resolve if it was buffed adequately.

An other solution would be to add 5k health and nerf AH and MF to the ground.

Spirit weapons should be like stances or just replace the weaponskills. pets and ai sucks.

Lets say you have your GS out and activate he spirit bow. Either this should (an example) reduce incoming damage from ranged abilities to you and 5 allies or
your skill bar should be changed to 5 new skills that are available to you during a limited time.

Most use meditations since they offer more mobility and burst. Monks focus as healing also allows you to trait for larger symbols which is pretty nice for symbol bombing.

Personally i find AH with pure of voice to still be valid in wvw and a great support tool.

If traiting pure of voice i would definitely go with trooper runes as well. The only non shout i use in a ah build is purging flames and from time to time hallowed ground.

So basically i trait ah, pure of voice and master of consecrations. Add smiters boon and strength in numbers from valor. Protective reviver and honorable staff from honor and absolute resultion/glacial heart (depending on using hammer) and indomitable courage or permeating wrath (great with staff 1).

And yes, pure of voice and trooper remove 2 conditions.

This set up is probably the most team/support centric setup you can use.

I would go for a mix of soliders and carrions or celestial. Burning on staff is just to good to pass up on from time to time.

90% i play hammer/staff in zergs with a AH setup.

Well just post them in here and if people find them useful they ask for a sticky. It worked before and im sure it will work now.

I plan on updating the hammer guide AFTER HoT is released or when we at get reliable info about if there are going to be any other changes to weapons and utilities in HoT.

But if you want it to go and just report it.

I have over 3k aoe burns from staff auto alone. Running ascended carrion, celestial weapons and smoldering/corruption and balthazar runes. Veggie pizza and master tuning crystal.

It seems the more targets the more often VoJ proc and the more aoe you get. I havent noticed this before.

Purging flames is really strong (12k burning unbuffed) and just to bad hallowed ground dont have burning. So close to being able to play a strong consecration build.

I run 6/6/0/0/6 in zergs and i can say i havent done this amount of damage in zerging no matter profession i played.

Topped the damage with 6k per tick and all looked like aoe. Purging flames, judges intervention and passive VoJ with permeating wrath.

Alexxander.8306:

Catseye.3164:

You still need the base game to play. That didn’t change. They are just giving it free if you prepurchase.

They didnt mention that on the FAQ they altered. I think a court would see it this way as well, omitting temporal details to deceive a customer is still false advertising afaik.

Intent???

Seriously, i have been trying to avoid posting regarding this topic but i just cant stop my self.

What people need to understand here is:

1. Guild wars 2 as a stand alone game doesnt “exist” anymore. If you check out the site you will find that its no longer on sale, or at least i cant find it.

2. The new stand alone game is called Guild Wars 2: Hearth of Thrones and is even a registered trade mark.

3. At the momont HoT isnt sold as a separate offer.

4. GW2: HoT is clearly bundled to attract new players to the game. They added HoT to GW2 in order to increase the value of their offering to new players.

5. There is no offer aimed at veterans atm so we shouldnt be worked up about the pricetag or that we dont get any extras. Why? Because we dont know! This offer isnt ment for us.

Its like having 4 kids and complaining about that there is no room for the stroller in the brand new convertible that Porsche launched and stating that as an existing customer its a rip off and you “deserve” a convertible that can accept the stroller in the trunk.

People need to grow up and make grown up decisions.
If you want the expansion and be part of the beta you buy it at full price with the risk of a new offer being made in the future that is aimed for the veterans.

If you dont want to pay full price for the bundle (you already have the game) because you dont think its worth it well dont friggin buy it and risk that you dont get beta access but with the upside that you might get a “veteran offer” later on.

Seriously the whole discussion that is going on here is just silly imo.

Instead of kittening about the present offer people should make polite requests so we get an offer that is targeted at veterans.

Anet: Its a great offer for newcomers but its not for me! Can you please look into the possibility to design an offer that is aimed at me as a veteran?

Thx in advance.

In pve your suggestion might fly but in pvp and wvw its a straight forward nerf both to the ability to support and to effective dps. The ranged symbol is a huge controbution to damage and forcing the opponent to move.

There are a bunch of stunts you can do with the ranged symbol that would be impossible to perform with a self centered symbol.

What the hammer need is:

Faster auto attack and timed with cd on mb so mb has a clear role in pve dps rotation.
Remove the light field from symbol
Make the auto deal aoe just as it does today and 1-2 sec protection in one pulse.
Make RoW a fire field and allow us to move while casting
Increase damage on banish and zealots embrace so the fil a place in pve rotation

Hammer auto dont need the symbol to be selfcentered, it would make the weapon just as bad as gs/mace symbols in wvw on particular.

been looking at the traits in hot and one thing that i have come up with is the combination of staff and bow.

The idea is that i use it as a defender of gates/walls and within 3-4 sec drop 3 symbols and one trap at the guys hitting the doors.

The Idea is to pop empower while at the wall and SoS swap to bow and use the aoe immobilize and the bowsymbol plus VoJ.

After that i jump down and trigger the SoP on fall damage and pop the trap.

I would have about 800 in regen with in these symbols and a constant flow of stability.

With cripple from sigils i would have 55% damage modifiers (4 modifiers). 65% while at >600 range.

In a mix of celestial, pow/pre/heal and clerics i think i would have about 1300 heal on dodge, 2100 power, 45% crit chance and about 18k in health.

When i get all symbols down and one trap In the area infront of the door the area will melt.

The remaining utilityskills has to be condiremovers of some sort. CoP and smite conditions comes to mind.

This build would/might also work in zergs i imagine.

What do you think?

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgIBvATYBpw~

This is directed at Anet, not the community.

The reason i ask is that some skills has gotten QoL changes in the past and similar skills on other weapons/professions haven’t.

What first and foremost springs to mind is ranger auto on sword, guardian third hit on auto on hammer, the blink on guardian sword and empower on guardian staff.

They all have issues like:
Awkward use in pvp on the ranger sword
Long casting time on guardian hammer auto
Mighty blow on guardian hammer actually not being a gap closer. Increased range and/or ground targeting would make it much more rewarding.
The freeze on the guardian blink which freezes the guardian in place when landing it, preventing to actually strike with the next skill if the opponent is moving away from you.
Being forced to be static when stacking might with guardian staff on the team which obviously moves while you standing there squatting.

Obviously there are more skills that needs polishing as well and these serve only as an example.

So Anet, will you also polish existing skills in HoT or have you guys moved on?

Good riddance. As a guardian/thief player those are a huge buff and close to mandatory and the obvious first choice.

That alone indicates that they are to strong.

Even though i as a player will be shafted (guardians relies heaviliy on them) i think its good that they are removed.

Koviko.3248:

Giganta.4890:

Why accommodate people who didn’t put in the time for it?

Why do you assume this is an “accommodation” and not “a necessary balance change”?

Giganta.4890:

and at the expense of something that’s already okay

According to who? You? ANet seems to disagree.

Giganta.4890:

and more importantly earned.

And even more importantly, makes it harder for those that haven’t yet earned it to earn it.

Giganta.4890:

Out of the available mastery’s it has the most incentive as it affects you the entire time vs siege usage.

Therefore, it’s TOO important in comparison to the rest of the options and needs to be rebalanced.

Giganta.4890:

If you want to put players such as newer ones on the same level as existing ones just make the cost cheaper.

This goes against your “earn it” statement.

Giganta.4890:

Forcing the idea of putting points into other/improved Mastery’s isn’t a good compromise for those in favor of using the two that are being removed.

The current system FORCES you to put points into these already. Getting rid of them doesn’t FORCE you to do anything. It’s the opposite.

Giganta.4890:

Where did all that hard work go?

Into every single other possible attribute.

Giganta.4890:

They put the time into it therefore they deserve it.

Deserve what?

Giganta.4890:

You don’t like grinding stacks? or especially when you have to respond quickly to another WvW map? […] You don’t like pve?

If players don’t like something, you think it should stay? You do realize this is a game, right?

Excellent reply by Koviko that pin points the issue with the stacks.

-make them ranged
- make them improve thru symbol traits (size, duration and heal in honor and damage in zeal)
-replace the hammer trait in DH with bow/trap trait for reduced cool down.

Now we got area denial thru staff, bow and traps.

This would also justify the spread of symbol traits to improve 2 skills on separate weapons.

Good to go.

Its the same issue with all symbols, they should give the full amount of boons when placed instead on pulses.

This would solve a lot of issues like:
Staff and the need/ability to stack swiftness when stationary but loose swiftness when just moving thru the symbol.

It would increase support capabilities for both mace and hammer while reducing the effect from AH which can be silly if you know what you are doing.

I agree with OP, thi should be fixed but not only for SoE but also for te rest of the symbols.

First damage pulse (not when placed) should give all the boons.

And all symbols should deal burning damage., not just SoE.

Bezagron.7352:

This is also something I’ve wished for. As you said a profession mechanic should have a major defining factor in a profession’s gameplay. How can a profession mechanic be a defining part of you gameplay if your luck to be able to use if once ever 60 seconds.

Also think of these skills at baseline:

Virtue of Justice – 30 sec cooldown

• Passive – Every 5th attack applies Burning for 1 sec.
• Active – You & allies (4) next attack applies Burning for 4 sec, radius 1200, lose the passive effect while on cooldown.

Virtue of Resolve – 60 sec cooldown

• Passive – Small passive heal to yourself every sec.
• Active – AoE small heal that heals yourself & 4 allies, radius 1200, lose the passive effect while on cooldown.

Virtue of Courage – 90 sec cooldown

• Passive – Grants the boon Aegis to yourself every 40 sec.
• Active – Grants Aegis to yourself & allies (4), 20 sec duration, radius 1200, lose the passive effect while on cooldown.

For the baseline power of these skills are these acceptable cooldowns? Would you take these if they were utility skills?

I’ve only every started to find Guardians virtues interesting and start to become worthwhile skills once you start to trait into them. Inspired Virtue feels like it should be part of the baseline skills at the minimum. Even then I would look at reducing the cooldowns to make them feel like a more defining part of your gameplay even without heavy traiting and think your baseline cooldown are about right before cooldown reduction traits.

Brutaly.6257:

20s on justice
30s on resolve
40 on courage

Now I’m like the 20 sec on VoJ and to note with VoJ burning is now going to stack & this will most likely mean reduce dmg for 1 stack of burning compared to now. You also have to hit with a attack to increase your attack count to trigger the passive burning.

Now there could be a skill power level problem when someone traits heavily into Virtues spec only or Virtues + Dragonhunter specs. But I would like Arenanet to remove some of that upper trait power level increase by traits and shift it into the baseline virtues and reduce the over cooldown of virtues for some more active virtue gameplay overall. Let Guardian’s use all of their profession mechanic just as frequently as the other professions.

Lastly VoC applying Aegis – Other then the massive protection to One Hit Mechanics I’ve found Aegis to be quite a weak boon in general gameplay due to only providing protection to only the next attack again you. I’ve always thought it should be a very short duration block. This would give is better gameplay coverage to very fast, channelled & pulsing attacks providing that massive burst damage protection still then just protection against One Hit KOs. Also I feel Blind should operate the same but with you applying it to your foes.

Excellent write up.

And i think you really point out that we (and anet) should be looking at the baseline of these skills and those are seriously bad.

Personally i done some theorycrafting and im considering a honor/valor/zeal symbol bombing staff/bow zerg build and tbh i wouldnt even bother using my virtues for something else than having some buttons to push. They add nothing to the game with such a build and that is just silly for a class mechanic.

It will be something mature like….hmmmmm

Ghost Slayer, abriviated GS, hence their choice of weapon.

Tarsius.3170:

Yup – I wasn’t implying that a Virtue recharge reduction change should hinge on just one trait line – I definitely think there should be a sizeable base-line reduction regardless.

Ok, we are on the same page, as always.

Tarsius.3170:

We’ll need to see what the final form of “Hunter’s Protection” might be too.

I hope their comment about reworking it actually meant they should add more useful effects to it.

Protection + a generous CD reduction + condition cleanse might make it worth taking above the other two

We often see eye to eye on stuff in this game but i dont think we should wait.

The issue is that with the introduction of HoT you will be forced to invest in an entire traitline to reap the benefits. Or at least thats how i understand it. Am i wrong here?

This means that you cant invest just one point in a line (hey inspired virtues) which actually makes the virtues do anything worth bragging about.

And its in this light virtues has to be balanced. What if a player invest in zeal/radiance/valor/honor and not in virtues/DH!!??

We might be the only profession that actually has to invest in traits to make our class unique mechanics to have any impact.In the old (current) system i could accept it since it was 1 point in inspired virtues to make them alright.

Its the baseline that is the issue, not the traits you can choose to improve the virtues.

lordkrall.7241:

But one also need to take the passive effect into account when using the active ability, thus lowering the cool-down might also require looking at and changing the passive values as well.

im a bit tired so it might be me but i dont understand your point here.

When we activate a virtue we sacrifice the passive to get the active. This also means the more often we use the active the less powerful the passive becomes.

And the passive are there to compensate for our low healthpool imo.

And tbh 84 in regen and random aegis is just weak in pvp and wvw.

Sidenote, also notice that anet added casting times to the virtues in HoT.

lordkrall.7241:

Isn’t part of the point that you are supposed to think about when to use them? Not just blindly use them as soon as you enter a fight and then be able to pop them again without thinking again soon after.

Absolutely!

But my point is that a 600 leap and a 130 radius shield isnt worth having 60s and 90s cd. The leap is actually not much better than 1h swords blink (10s cd) and since the shield doesn’t deflect aoe its worse then wall of reflection (32s cd), especially since consecrations will be ranged in HoT.

It isnt justified to have elite cool-downs on minor skills.

What would be justified?
Well i think:
20s on justice
30s on resolve
40 on courage

And they are still weak even though justice seems pretty nifty but that skill is o na moderate cd and there are plenty of traits to increase the frequence of use.

Compare with the Revenant with a 240 radius deflect, 6s duration and 12s cd.

Tarsius.3170:

This would help get us away from a “one use per fight” skill set

This pinpoints the problem perfectly. In pvp its not even one use per fight when it comes to resolve and courage. VoC and VoR is often on cd when you reach the next cap zone.

I understand it can be an issue balancing this for pve (aegis) but for wvw and pvp reduced cd wouldnt make virtues overpowered but it would be much more fun to actually have buttons to push.

Tarsius.3170:

I hope/assume we’ll see a 15% increase in our Virtue Recharge Rate during the trait base-stat rebalance.

Otherwise having to spec up to grandmaster minor in Virtues just to get 15% improvement will be rather poor.

Ideally I’d like to at least see our current +30% become baseline and then have the ability to spec heavily into virtues to further reduce CD

I read that half the stat lost from the traitlines would be given as baseline (15%) and the 15% would be given in the new traitline as a trait.

I think your suggestion that 30% (i would prefer 50%) would be about right for courage and resolve. The class specific mechanic should have big impact/frequent usage with no traiting needed. The extra 15% should only be icing on the cake.

I really liked the skills and the traps as well, guards were said to be great at area controllers and i think the traps actually make this happen.

I have no issues with the name other than its better suited as a title and less suited as a profession/specialization.

I also liked that Anet finally listened to the community and changed inner fire to trigger actively when hitting something instead of triggering when being hit on.

Would be really cool if inner fire had the same fury duration as internal cd. That would really make it worth investing in condition duration and being able to maintain three stacks of burning and never ending fury.

What i would like to see though is tht one of the end feats should add healing (like meditations) when placing a trap. This would further more open up build diversity in wvw and pvp. Not making meditations or AH mandatory. It would make it possible to invest in DH, zeal and radiance and go for a full blown bow and trap dps build

This isnt feedback on DH exclusively so instead of writing this in the feed back thread i will start a separate one.

I also posted this in the HoTsection. Why not head over there as well and give feedback.

This has been suggested before that the cd on courage and resolve are way to long. These are the unique profession defining mechanics and they should have short cool downs and not cool downs more suitable for elite skills. Class defining mechanics should be used frequently, other wise its the skills with the lowest cd that defines the profession.
In the light of the dragon hunter i think this is even more evident. A gapcloser (very minor heal) with 60s cd and a 3s? deflecting shield on 90s is cd just way to long.
Justice is fine as it is but 25-35s would be more suitable for a gapcloser and maybe 45-55s for the shield.
Instead of adding huge cool downs use casting time and duration to balance skills.

This isnt feedback on DH exclusively so instead of writing this in the feed back thread i will start a separate one.

This has been suggested before that the cd on courage and resolve are way to long. These are the unique profession defining mechanics and they should have short cool downs and not cool downs more suitable for elite skills. Class defining mechanics should be used frequently, other wise its the skills with the lowest cd that defines the profession.

In the light of the dragon hunter i think this is even more evident. A gapcloser (very minor heal) with 60s cd and a 3s? deflecting shield on 90s is cd just way to long.

Justice is fine as it is but 25-35s would be more suitable for a gapcloser and maybe 45-55s for the shield.

Instead of adding huge cool downs use casting time and duration to balance skills.

Give me dual pistols and turn me into “The bodyguard”. A good ranged single target weapon with exactly zero control and tons of condition damage and i will be a happy puppy.

Im hoping for something one handed and ranged. One handed opens up more options when it comes to builds and also allows for double wielding.

One handed also has some nice traits (15% crit chance)

We also need a good ranged option to deal with kiters which are a menace för guardian.

So it comes down to pistols for me.

So basically double wielding pistols and maybe access to one or two more conditions.

Short/long bow would be interesting as well.

Any other existing weapon than that would just be redundant imo.

Hopefully they adress what the profession lack with the new weapon/specialisation.

Add chill, bleed and burn to the sword chain. Make scepter 1 a chain and do the exact same thing.

Those weapons are also improved by radiance.

This would improve other stuff at the same time. Like soft cc.

Cure the disease instead treating the symptoms.

Power without precision is useless, power and precision without ferocity means low burst. Burst rules when it comes to all pvp formats. The trick is to get all three of them in there and with as much control as possible so you can burst on demand.

As a general rule 5 points in power equals to 6-7 points in precision. Its not as straight forward in reality but close enough.

With that said there is no straight answer if force is better. For raw damage yeah, but IMO you shouldt be looking just for top dps, you should look for a resonably controlable burst. More crit chance increases control.

Relentliss.2170:

Brutaly.6257:

I personally went celestial even though i know i can get better stats if i optimize and mix and match.

The reason for me to grab celestials is that by swapping the accessories (which i have pretty much every combination of) i can alter my toons playstyle.

Full zerker for roaming, might builds and burst.

Full pvt for frontline pusher

clerics for healway gameplay

and so on.

My second celestial gear was full keepers. Which btw is great in a healway build, combination of lots of healing, burst and crit is superfun in a 0/0/2/6/6.

Wont craft an other ascended for my war/guard.

I am generally on the commander and playing a front line pusher. The nice thing about PVT is the nice power/toughness/vitality balance, which provides plenty of survivability when combined with AH. AH basically makes up for not having very big healing power.

The big bonus to Celestial to me would be the increase to healing power and ferocity and the ability to play entirely different roles by just swapping accessories.

Meh I’m still confused. I recieved a wup-wup chest box the other day so maybe not having to craft a cele chest piece is a sign.

Added a pic of my guardian in celestial armor with hoelbrak runes with celestial trinkets and back and clerics ring and amulet and celestial weapons.. This is what i zerg with and also command from time to time. Its dual or triple shouts and one consecration. I swap out the celestial back and trinkets for pvt and/or berserkers from time to time.

You seriously dont need any more vitality. I have 22k health with minor bloodlust and after killing 5 npc. The issue imo isnt healthpool, its the ability to restore healthpool to come back in to the fight as fast as possible. The ability to fast come backs lack in pvt imo.

I personally went celestial even though i know i can get better stats if i optimize and mix and match.

The reason for me to grab celestials is that by swapping the accessories (which i have pretty much every combination of) i can alter my toons playstyle.

Full zerker for roaming, might builds and burst.

Full pvt for frontline pusher

clerics for healway gameplay

and so on.

My second celestial gear was full keepers. Which btw is great in a healway build, combination of lots of healing, burst and crit is superfun in a 0/0/2/6/6.

Wont craft an other ascended for my war/guard.

Ragnarox.9601:

Even playing in wvw with hammer feels good but GS gives waaaay better dmg.

Just saying so you can make an informed decision, GS doesnt give waaaay better damage. We are talking abolut less then 10% more, probably closer to 5%.

The faster pace of the chain and the big numbers of ww makes you feel that way.

The thing is that mb has lower casting and after cast and is on half the cd. Add to that that mb is much easier to hit with versus any skilled player and the real difference is even less. In pve its a bit different even though its much faster to get back into dps mode with the hammer since you can use mb on low cd to get back after dodging.

I played hammer since the game launch and i can honestly say that my effective dps with the hammer and traited symbols (larger) are just way above the gs. Way back than there were a few guys in these forums trolling about the huge difference in dps and unfortunately that seem to have stuck.

It was also suggested that hammer was to slow and sluggish to work in wvw zerging, roaming and pvp and most people believed that crap. What we see now is that hammer is one of the most popular weapons we have and i can tell you its not because it has low dps or is to slow. People have found the playstyle which is required and if you do that its the most versatile weapon we have.

So dont look at dps when chosing the legendary, chose the weapon you like playing with.

When it comes to fields in dungeons its a non issue in coordinated teams, for max dps you should swap weapons and its when gs is up on the guardian that firefields should be placed.

Hammer causes issues in less coordinated teams though.