Guild Wars 2

Wanze.8410:

There was no promotion, just a PSA that the finishers wont be available for directly via gems after 1 week.

They were all listed in the “Promotions” tab…

BrotherBelial.3094:

Firebaall.5127:

As a gem store finisher buyer myself…. This is crazy stupid.

“Hey you, random customer….screw you for paying $10/finisher”.

-Anet

This is the same as buying Guild Wars one day, and it going on sale the next. You had said finishers guaranteed. Other people have to pay the price set by other players on the TP, ot gamble on BLK’s. This is why I when I buy things from the gem store. I make sure I’m 100% happy, and it’s 100% worth the gem cost, otherwise I don’t put my hand in my pocket.

It’s a little shadier than that. Without the “Last Chance” sale, yes this would have been loosely analogous, but the way the finishers were advertised clearly implied that they were going to become difficult/impossible to acquire.

I didn’t buy any myself, but it’s impressive that ANet have managed to have something even shadier than the two year anniversary of the Infinite Continue Coin being useless this week.

Astralporing.1957:

Torady.3907:

And weekends will still be the popular slot where people will do missions since thats when most people are on.

There is a significant difference between doing the missions just after reset, and doing them just before reset. In the first case you have a week to catch up on merits if something goes wrong (people won’t show up, mission fails, or like it often happens lately rewards bug out) or catch up on commendations if you miss the mission day. In second case there’s no redo or catchup at all – if something goes wrong, you lose the rewards for that week.

Monday reset is really bad timing.

Agreed. And it isn’t the fault of the guilds. Just last week several guilds I know had a bug in Langmar Estate that stopped the mission being completable. Our guild rearranged that mission till later in the week because we had the option. Under the new system everyone would have missed there rewards despite getting to the final room.

aaaaaand… that’s two years that the Infinite Continue Coin has done nothing more than take up a bank tab.

To those who forward the “It’s coming back” excuse regarding refunds, two questions:

1) Is two years long enough for the requests for refunds to be justified in your mind?
2) Is there ANY length of time that ANet could hold on to customer money for a service they aren’t providing that you would have issue with?

At this point I’m struggling to see this as anything other than at best shocking treatment of customers, and at worst basically theft (not sure the exact legal term for taking money for something then not providing it). I realise that it isn’t that much money, but in terms of the principle of how to handle customer, that’s not really the point. They haven’t even apologised, as far as I’m aware.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Eirdyne.9843:

Can we have a refund for our Infinite Lives Coin since it’s been useless for years now?

They refuse to refund it because SAB is still in the game and maaaaaybe will be unlocked in the future.

In just under two weeks it’s been useless for two years. I know it’s a small cost in relative terms, but I’m surprised that this isn’t an issue that gets more discussion. ANet took real world money for a service they aren’t providing, haven’t apologised for it, have barely explained it, and refuse to refund it. It’s absolutely shocking customer service that would be totally unacceptable in any other industry.

I think the best we can hope for is a refund on the Infinite Continue Coin people paid real money for two years ago.

While its great that we finally got an answer on it, I do think that two years is WAY over the limit on how long they should have kept infinite continue coin money. A gem refund on an item that has been entirely useless for this long seems long past due. The “its coming back” excuse really doesn’t hold at this stage.

They took real money for a product they aren’t providing, and to my knowledge haven’t even apologised for the delay. In any other industry a refund, an apology, and possibly even some kind of compensation (before the “entitled” comments come, I’m not asking for that) would have been offered.

The problem wasn’t the lack of an expansion, it was that the LS content was temporary. Huge amounts of time and resources was put into developing content that isn’t in the game any more.

ANet have been riding on how awesome the base game was for three years. But this drought is seriously problematic, especially for small/medium guilds trying to keep the members who haven’t got bored and moved on together and interested.

azyume.6321:

12 months, 2500 posts, over 90k views since this thread started.

Soon on September 3rd will mark exactly 2 years since Super Adventure Box: Back to School was released. Just as well, on September 30th will mark 2 years since SAB was locked, making it inaccessible.

My Infinite Continue Coin has been dusting in the bank for all this time. How much longer it is acceptable to us wait to use an item sold on the gemstore which is now locked away and, by info from dev, will keep with that status for an unknown period?

Would be nice if this case was finally addressed by Anet.

I am sure none of us would be complaining about the infinite continue coin if was tagged as temporary use only during the season 2: Back to School, which wasn’t the case.

I think the big thing is that it’s just over a month until two years of ANet refusing to refund a completely useless item that people paid real world money for.

To be fair, while I didn’t notice or care about the event in the OP, being forced to do something that I really object to is pretty immersion breaking. Yes this isn’t a role playing game in that sense, but it IS a role playing game, and the characters are our avatars.

An example for me was giving away Taimi’s invention. Yes there are good reasons to do it, but in the moment I definitely wouldn’t have given it away, and it really took me out of the game experience.

lordkrall.7241:

So, here you have your comment about where SAB is:

Rinith’s reply is probably the closest description to the reality as of today where we stand with SAB. We’ve made a number of changes to the physics engine as a result of places like Silverwastes, Dry Top, and the expac that means we need to go back and re-work SAB to use all the new movement systems. It also needs a pretty solid rewards overhaul, and I know Josh would love to make some changes to world 2 before it returns.
We’re all focused on expansion – both the announced details, and the un-announced details and simply can’t peel anyone off a team to work on it right now without it effecting expac. The two SAB worlds we’ve seen will return as we’ve said before, but simply put our focus right now is on making the expansion amazing

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3bqhaf/infinite_continue_coin/csoszn5

Umm… what does he mean “needs a pretty solid rewards overhaul”??? SAB has the best reward system in the game!!! The balance between “luck/money/farming” for blues and then “skill/dedication” for greens and yellows (which are just different colours, not qualitatively better than blues) was fantastic!

Palador.2170:

That’s just it though. Some of the people making noise feel that the game is going the wrong way right now, and won’t stay in a good position if it continues.

Honestly, I think this isn’t really just about HoT. It’s about the sale on town clothes shortly before the Wardrobe system was announced. It’s about the changes to the gems/gold transfer, which they were never fully candid about, and never fully reverted. It’s about selling RNG in the gemstore, and a dozen other little things that have worn on people. There is a growing feeling that ANet is simply dishonest with the players. Now people feel like they’re being dishonest again, and they don’t want to let it slide.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe that’s not what’s happening. But if it is, then GW2 really isn’t in a good place, and staying quiet won’t fix it.

Don’t forget the Infinite Continue Coin. That gem store item they took real world money for which has been useless for more than a year and a half.

First off, yes, Arenanet employees are people too. It is absolutely wrong to harass, threaten or otherwise mistreat them. I in no way whatsoever defend that kind of action.

HOWEVER:

1) The “This is their art that they care about defence” sort of went out the window when they butchered the personal story into an incoherent mess. I’m sorry, but you wouldn’t see anyone, in any other medium, randomly rearranging the chapters or scenes in their “art”.

If the decision for such things came from on high, then I sympathise with the devs who had their hard work ruined. But then the problem with GW2 not being treated as a product that its makers care about is still stemming from the makers side, not the customer side. Give us a product that shows care and love, and it will be respected.

2) ANet have made themselves a faceless corporation through lack of communication. We’ve had TWO riots over SAB, and we still don’t know why it isn’t gone. That’s the beginning of a very long list of such issues. While again, it is absolutely not the fault of individual developers, and they absolutely don’t deserve mistreatment, the fact that ANet aren’t viewed as people is the direct result of company policy determining that they not be.

Remember when loads of people hated SAB world 2 and complained? And then there was communication from the dev on it about how upset he was and how he made changes to it and why the unpopular decisions were made? Remember how sympathetic people were and how that actually made people a lot less angry about world two and even trust that the difficulty wasn’t an intentional and manipulative way to sell the Infinite Continue Coin? Remember how ANet stamped on that dev’s behaviour in favour of a policy of absolute silence because they decided a few trolls meant that the entire player base needed to be treated like spoiled children rather than adult customers? That’s why we’re where we are.

This. I don’t care at all about the “free” copy of GW2, nor particularly about the price (though I think it is high, especially the jump from standard to deluxe in the UK).

What I do care about is feeling disrespected as a customer. Which after the traits fiasco, the ongoing issue of the Infinite Continue Coin, the lack of communication etc. etc. etc. this is kind of the log that buried the already broken camel in the sand.

Alexxander.8306:

Fraud is always news. The ICC is so specific to GW2 I wouldnt be able to explain it to someone that doesn’t play. Bait and switch is a timeless maneuver though. Anet went oldschool.

Really? “ANet sold unlimited access to repeated content, and then never (for over a year and a half and counting at least) repeated that content.”

It’s not difficult, and IMO is far more newsworthy than the current debacle. Much of a rip off as the packages are, at least customers know what they’re getting (unless they turn the Revenant class off altogether for a couple of years).

I think the lack of attention for the Infinite Continue Coin (which people paid money for and has been useless, without refunds, for more than a year and a half) bodes poorly for this.

The price is reasonable, and unless you’re actually part of the loyal fan base and had all of the little stuff build up (piles of Queen Jennahs, Frac leaderboard, content droughts, NPE, trait debacle, lack of communication etc.) then I’m not even sure the lack of a character slot will get attention.

This is a slap in the face of long time players, but if the ICC wasn’t (which is horse armour territory), I don’t think this is gonna be news.

I can’t believe they haven’t released SAB again yet. We’re in a content drought, and it’s a major issue for many players. If they want people handing them cash in advance, what on earth are they doing?

Merathkira.7041:

To make sure this doesn’t get completely lost, for those of you who are concerned that the players are not being listened to on the HoT pricing structure issue:

Hey all,
We understand that there are many opinions and suggestions about the game versions and the pre-purchase program. We will continue to read your thoughts and thank you for sharing them.
Edit to add: We will share your input with the team.

From this post by Gaile.

We have been heard and we are not being ignored.

Hope this puts a few minds at ease!

I’m sorry but, as the traits thread, the SAB thread, the communication threads etc. have shown, this means basically nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad Gaile posted it, as it means they’re at least reaching the bare minimum on customer service on this one, but don’t take it as more than that.

Mantheren.5428:

Hot pre-purchase sounds a little like the Infinite continue coin.

Buy this thing now. You’ll have access to something that is definitely coming, but at an undisclosed time in the future.

I might not be falling for that one again.

Pretty much this. The ICC has pretty much erased all of the “faith” that I might previously have put in ANet when making a blind purchase. They have shown that they are willing to take money for essentially nothing, with no refunds, so long as they didn’t “technically” say they were going to provide a service. Not gonna assume that HoT will be worth the value on the grounds that “otherwise they wouldn’t charge that”, which I previously would have.

nerevar.6247:

You have 5 free character slots that you got with the game. You also have the option to purchase more slots through in-game gold or Money and also the option to delete a character.

O, and I know that the expansion costs money. Not anywhere in my previous post did I say that the expansion is free. All I said is that they have continually updated the game since release for free and will continue you to do so. I just biased my post around why they shouldn’t be asking for more.

None of which is “free”, with the tenuous exception of the gold to gem transfer.

It isn’t “more” to ask that a key feature of the expansion by usable without having to pay extra.

nerevar.6247:

Please do tell how you would come to that conclusion. With that kind of reply, I’m not sure if you know what “free” means..

[/quote]

Simple, Heart of Thorns is not “free”. It is a paid expansion. One feature of that expansion is the introduction of a new class. This a feature that is only usable with an empty character slot. For many players, they have no such slot, and those who do are required to sacrifice one of their existing slots for the purpose.

In other words, one of the key paid features of HoT is not usable without either an additional purchase, or sacrificing already purchased content. Asking for that functionality, when you pay for the expansion, is not asking for “free” stuff. It’s asking to be able to use what you pay for.

But then, after the Infinite Continue Coin debacle I guess ANet don’t really care about whether or not customers can use the products they pay for, so long as they’ve paid.

nerevar.6247:

This is quite laughable. I love the amount of people who think they’re entitled to free stuff just because they’re veterans . The only greedy people here are people asking for free stuff. You’re still paying the price for the expansion as everyone else. If you own the core game already since launch, GREAT! You have enjoyed 3 years of free updates and support for the game while you probably have stacked hundreds of thousands of hours for game who only have to pay once for. Not only that but the free updates and support will continue you to come before and after the expansion. /Thread

You keep using that word “free”. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

I know some people think this was timed to cover the backlash against class changes, but seriously what the heck are they doing with the hype train?

The game hasn’t had content in a LONG time, people are still annoyed about things like SAB, the new changes have people unhappy… Why on earth would you pick the lowest point on the hype curve to release at a high price point (and with the added kick of no character slot)???

I think the bigger misstep in marketing was the lack of character slot. It’s basically a neon sign saying “We’re really greedy and will squeeze you for every penny we can!”

Not adding a character slot is pretty silly. Selling an expansion partly on the basis that there’s a new class, but making people pay extra to even use it?

It’s a pretty overt cash grab.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You misunderstand, that would all take at most a week. The positive posts would burn out within the first page after the statement, the negative posts and subsequent arguments would go on for a couple pages before business as usual.

Even assuming your prediction was accurate, it doesn’t justify ANet’s behaviour. They’re providing a bad customer service. Just because actually providing a good customer service might not please everyone, that doesn’t somehow alleviate them from that responsibility.

It would take ten minutes for someone who knows what is going on to post here letting us know. That would appease a large number of their customers, and in particular the ones who bought the infinite continue coin who are not receiving a service they paid money for. Even if it doesn’t solve every problem in the world, its common decency.

Palador.2170:

It would break the story for the festival to happen, but not for them to do something else with the zone. But that would take work, and I doubt they have the manpower to spare to revamp the zone right now.

The REAL problem is that events CAN’T happen right now. HoT is supposed to happen right after LS season 2 ended. There’s literally no time for events to happen between the two. So, the game’s on pause until HoT comes out, as far as such things go.

Last Halloween we put Prince Thorne back in the box for a second time. Wintersday was the same. That’s to say nothing of the mess that became of the personal story after the NPE…

The notion that we can’t have events because it would break the story, while nice in theory, fly in the face of ANet’s behaviour over the last year or so.

Yeah, the lack of content is a bit of a problem. There’s a notable drop off in regular play from guildies, which is an issue for smallish guilds.

The fact that SAB is just sitting there programmed with no explanation as to why it isn’t permanent (or at least on for a bit) is pretty saddening.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Does your weather rock specifically control the weather? Did your weather rock create the weather in the first place? Is the weather contingent on your weather rock? Because all of those things are true of the relationship between SAB and ANet. As such, when ANet says it will be back I would say it is far more meaningful than whatever your rock has to say on the subject of weather.

While I believe SAB is going to come back eventually (way later than acceptable, and long after many of the fans have left), we do get shouted at a lot on the forum for taking ANet’s word as gospel. I don’t see why that rule changes here, apart from the fact that if they’re clinging on to it as an excuse not to refund the Infinite Continue Coin.

insanemaniac.2456:

yeah, maybe i just shouldnt have any expectations.

Basically this. ANet are making it harder and harder to get any kind of hype or optimism for the game going.

lordkrall.7241:

Funny. People raged like mad that they were added to the BLC. Now ArenaNet apparently listened and removed them, and now that is wrong as well?

You know, if you actually took some time to understand why people were upset about things, then you wouldn’t need to ask stuff like this. You might also be able to stop spending your time on the forum attacking other people constantly.

lordkrall.7241:

I think it is rather naive to assume that people would be content with a post explaining why SAB was not active.

They would see the post, rage about how that is the worst reason ever and then go back to business as usual in this thread.

That’s unsurprising, as you seem determined to think the worst of players.

However, your assumption is founded on the idea that all players are unreasonable, which is false. Many players are reasonable, and if given a good explanation, will accept it (although many will remain angry at the year and a half it took to give). If it isn’t a good explanation, then W1 and W2 shouldn’t be closed.

Birman.1705:

Yep, I completely agree. Part of the reason why I don’t participate actively in this thread is because it feels like talking to a wall.
Staying quiet and not giving an answer the players deserve is not acceptable and I didn’t deny it anywhere. Just tried to approach one aspect of a much bigger problem. Hope it’s OK

Oh I get it, I wasn’t trying to argue against you. My issue is that it is often good to look at both sides of an argument, and it is very tempting to try to say something like you did in defending ANet’s behaviour. However, in this instance, their behaviour is not defensible. SAB being active may, or may not, have good reason. ANet’s treatment of their paying customers however simply is not okay. Even if one accepted the (ludicrous) premise that they couldn’t take fifteen minutes to explain why W1 and W2 are closed, they actually took that time to insert the SAB minis in a massive middle finger to fans.

Birman.1705:

There is, however, one thing I must say in Arena Net’s defense and it’s that they are most likely understaffed. Severely.

The problem with this is that while yes, they might be too understaffed to develop SAB, it would take one employee about fifteen minutes to come on here and explain why W1 and W2 aren’t active.

If there are reasons SAB can’t be turned back on, fine. No one expects the impossible, and SAB shouldn’t be at the top of ANet’s priority list. However common courtesy to paying customers should be . Not telling us why we don’t have access to a service we paid real money for is shocking behaviour. Inserting the minis into the BLCs the day before the anniversary took this to an entirely new level.

A delay is both defensible and even expected at times. Giving a middle finger to your customers after making them wait over a year and a half for content they paid for is inexcusable.

It’s weird. Another Tuesday goes by and I’m still surprised at no news. How is this treatment of customers getting a pass in a company that wants people to buy an expansion this year (maybe)?

Yeah, I was really disappointed the Tempest set was wind rather than water/wind. I’ve been holding out for something like Brotherhood from FFX for ages…

Gibson.4036:

Though, like most, I’m very wary that the fix will be as bad as what we have now.

Yeah, currently there are two options:

1) They haven’t started working on the system.

2) They have started working on the new system, but haven’t consulted the players.

I’m not sure which is worse…

Golem chess went too. They also took away most of the skills in the snow leopard transformation heart in Wayfarer.

I remember the first time I went to Metrica, I was amazed by all the little touches and possibilities. Like this game was a HUGE world to explore with loads to do. I feel bad for the people who start now and just walk out into pretty much the same thing they’ll see everywhere on every map.

1) The changes to the trait system. Then the year of not talking about or fixing it.

2) The communication policy. Basically every bad decision they make (traits, SAB, rearranging the personal story, hobosacks…) is made much, much worse by this. It also leads to a general atmosphere of disrespect and lack of loyalty. A friendly company that makes mistakes but talks to people about them is fine. A company that makes mistakes but treats its customers like children, not so much.

Guhracie.3419:

ProtoGunner.4953:

After a couple of weeks ppl complain there is nothing new in SAB. I think they want release it again if they have W3 finished. Which will take a while.

There’s nothing new in Lornar’s Pass, but it’s still in the game. There’s nothing new in the game right now- should we take the whole game down? There are vendors who have sold nothing new since launch: should they be removed? This is such a bad argument for not bringing SAB back.

How long is “a while?” Is it more than 6 months? More than a year? Two years? The continue coin was a commitment to the community that this content would be worked on, and last summer it was revealed that it hasn’t been. World 1 was released over 2 years ago. World 2 was released over a year and a half ago.

This^^

What kind of company operates on the notion that “If we provide good customer service, some people will still complain, so there’s no point”?

A year… I can’t believe they’ve actually left their game broken in a core area for a whole year…

Raises glass

doombreaker.3710:

Aaaand again no new content today.

Yeah, whatever conversations are happening behind the scenes, the public face of this is just embarrassing. How can they possibly think this is a good approach?

Xillllix.3485:

On the French forum they said it will not be out until after the expansion because they are busy working on HoT.

They avoid the question of repackaging the old content as usual, as if it could only come back with new content (world 3). Seems like it’s more a question of ideology than a real lack of resources. They can’t be that oblivious to the fact that the community is starving so bad for new content that it has lowered its expectations to the point of asking for the return of old stuff.

They probably expect the New Player Experience and low price to carry them to the expansion release date, at the cost of losing the more dedicated players.

If that’s the case then its so weird. They were so indifferent to continuity that we’ve put Bloody Prince Thorn back in the box two years running, and dealt with the exact same problems for Tixx twice in a row as well.

I just can’t understand the rationality behind a dead zone like this with pre-made content ready to go that people are desperate to play. If there is a rationale behind it, then why haven’t they taken ten minutes to explain it? Its like they learned nothing whatsoever from the communication riots last year.

Dibbin.9620:

Oh, so they did. My mistake.

It’s worth noting that that post was made six months ago, and it gave basically zero information beyond an “at some point” which they’ve used as an excuse not to refund the infinite continue coin.

No explanations have been given for the box being closed, no apologies, no time frames…

It’s like sitting in a restaurant where you’ve already paid for the meal. The starter comes, and then three hours later (after a lot of complaining) a waiter wanders up and says “The main course will come at some point.” then wanders off again without an explanation or apology.

cleabh.5308:

That’s what I’ve been doing. Since they put the minis in the chests, I haven’t bought any gems at all and I’m not planning to until SAB is back.

Same. I stopped buying gems last year because of the traits issue. Then started again after the HoT reveal. Now I’ve stopped again.

So, essentially, by not turning on W1 and W2 (or just taking ten minutes to explain why they won’t), ANet have undone all of the good will they earned with me after the entire HoT development and presentation.

Its like having kitten in your roof and hiring a builder. The builder turns up and he and his team start building a cathedral next door to sell to you. Sure, it’s a lovely cathedral, and I’m interested in buying it once its done, but I’d be far happier if you’d just take an hour to fix my roof in the meantime. Especially given there seems to be very little sunshine this season, and a roof would really help make the months until getting the cathedral a lot nicer.

sMihaly.1492:

3 comments from this, SAB thread will have more comments than the [Suggestions] Gemstore Items thread.

I hope this is meaningful.

Unfortunately, while it should, the traits threads indicate otherwise. ANet can keep their fingers in their ears for a VERY long time.

lordkrall.7241:

^ Why do people keep assuming that they are not releasing it just to annoy people? Maybe there are actual reasons for it? Such as bugs and such that needs to be fixed but being put on the very end of the queue due to being very low priority.

Because that would suggest that ANet value saving one employee the ten minutes it would take to explain that here than they do the satisfaction of hundreds (thousands?) of their paying customers.

As someone who isn’t a big fan of fractals, I really hope it stays. It means I can do one fractal run and get two bonus pristine relics for it. There are plenty of other ways to get the daily if you’re really against them.

Try submitting a ticket. If enough people complain, then maybe they’ll listen.

If it is actually going to be post-HoT then that’s going to be two years minimum that the coin has been useless. Taking people’s real money for a product then leaving it this long is insulting. It doesn’t matter if “technically” they only said it’s coming back, not when, you simply don’t treat paying customers like that (and the minis in the BLCs was practically mocking us).

Guhracie.3419:

Once again, we’re stuck without any centralized news source and receiving this news via another customer kind enough to translate for those of us who don’t speak the language in which it was posted. Does ANET have any kind of internal communication going on, or is everyone just kind of doing their own thing?

This whole situation is just revolting, and has been the final nail in the HoT coffin, for me.

It isn’t the final nail for me, but I think its the biggest. The minis going in the chests on the 31st was such an insult that I really don’t want to give ANet money. I will probably buy HoT, because I care about my guild so I’m staying. But I’m avoiding buying gems as much as I can.