Guild Wars 2

what can i say? you’re having troubles with something a large amount of people and literally all the serious pvp players are saying is mostly a gimmick. what do you want, praise? an apology?

if it makes you feel any better i am almost 100% sure if you actually tried to beat quickness builds you could do it. its just that you and others seem to be more willing to QQ on forums than put in that smaller amount of effort.

whether you or anyone else thinks i’m good or not does not matter the slightest to me because 1) there is no way to quantify it (although its pretty easy to tell if someone is BAD) and 2) once there is a way to quantify it such as a ranking or rating, it’ll sort itself out and I’m not at all worried

“SPECIALLY WHEN YOU CAN’T TOUCH THEM WHILE STEALTHED”

you can still beat on them when stealthed. you just dont see numbers.

the creeps and treb was brought up during beta discussion, and you have some points there, but in general its to prevent teams from camping hardcore once they get 2 points, which is very possible given that some classes excel at point holding to the point where they could hold against double numbers indefinitely.

trust me, it would be more frustrating to lose because you have 5 mesmers/guardians/engineers sitting at 2 points for 500 points and your entire team cant kill 3 of them given the down mechanics.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

That’s kind of funny as i never gave a list. How odd. Good thing you think you can read minds. That must be so nice to have.

Its very funny your list fails. CC does not kill you. Sorry but what game are you playing? Its the abilities used after you have been CC’ed. So you don’t use CC to stop damage, you use CC to… That’s right break CC. Now will you always take damage after getting CC’ed nope. Should you break CC if you know damage is not following. Again nope. But no one every said you should.

You are playing this game right? Because really i am not sure. Your arguments come down to attacking other posters, making things up, and putting words into other peoples mouths. Not sure what your trying to get at with all this.

are you kidding me?

you seriously cant follow this chain of logic?

here is what POTENTIALLY might happen:

1) get CC’d
2) get burst on because you are CC’d
3) die

now tell me, at what step should the smart gamer use his escape? at what point would you say, okay this is happening now, I should trinket and stop this step because it is critical.

hint: its 2, not 1. you’re doing it at 1. or maybe 3. but definitely not 2 because then you wouldn’t be here complaining you get caught with your pants down for 15k damage

This is just so sad. Because it does not work that way. That’s the problem and what this thread is about. I agree it should be on 2. But quickness means that you have to use it on 1. As the damage comes in to fast for you to wait for 2.

Well now that you understand what this thread is about. Perhaps it can move on.

no, it does not come too fast. you will take some damage of course, but if you have any sort of non-vegetable reflex, you should be able to get out before the full damage is done (and by the way damage just happens to be back loaded for things like heartseekers and hundred blades)

if you cant press one key in 3 seconds, what else can i say? most people got it, some people dont

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

That’s kind of funny as i never gave a list. How odd. Good thing you think you can read minds. That must be so nice to have.

Its very funny your list fails. CC does not kill you. Sorry but what game are you playing? Its the abilities used after you have been CC’ed. So you don’t use CC to stop damage, you use CC to… That’s right break CC. Now will you always take damage after getting CC’ed nope. Should you break CC if you know damage is not following. Again nope. But no one every said you should.

You are playing this game right? Because really i am not sure. Your arguments come down to attacking other posters, making things up, and putting words into other peoples mouths. Not sure what your trying to get at with all this.

are you kidding me?

you seriously cant follow this chain of logic?

here is what POTENTIALLY might happen:

1) get CC’d
2) get burst on because you are CC’d
3) die

now tell me, at what step should the smart gamer use his escape? at what point would you say, okay this is happening now, I should trinket and stop this step because it is critical.

hint: its 2, not 1. you’re doing it at 1. or maybe 3. but definitely not 2 because then you wouldn’t be here complaining you get caught with your pants down for 15k damage

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

LOL so you have a “friend” oh how nice. Next time perhaps you should play a Prof. Also I never said i played a Necro. Or that i have problems playing them. Perhaps you should learn to read? You stated that we should just use our Gap openers. I was pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the game or what abilities Prof have, as Necro’s don’t have one.

uh no, i said in general use gap generators, stun breakers, dodges as a list of things any particular class may be able to do. you in turn said LOL WUT ABOUT NECROS

i’m also not the one having problems with the most basic combos in the game, so I guess I must have no understanding of this game, you’re right. assuming the game you are talking about is being terrible at guild wars 2

Again your poor reading. Perhaps going back to school is in order? I again never said i had a problem playing a necro. So not sure why you keep making this up.

And of course your not having problems with necro’s you already have stated that you don’t play them. So its not like you understand them at all, you just have a lol “friend”. who does. Its like saying you have a cousin in Miami, or a relative is a cop. Means very little.

usually when someone counters an argument by saying “TRY PLAYING A NECRO” it means you as a necro have all this necro experience and thus you are qualified to talk about it. instead your logic is a poor as your guild wars 2 sPvP ability.

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

“Quickness is the only thing threatening in this game and worth dodging/cc breaking!”
“It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”
“But it’s balanced!”

Seems legit….

what you apparently think I wrote: “It’s the only thing me and my friends are scared of!”

what I actually wrote: “the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on”

okay your reading comprehension skills are about as good as your sPvP skills it seems. case closed.

I’m sorry. This game is too complicated for you and your squirrel friend. Asking you to use a skill to counter another skill is too complicated.

Its like you’re a hunter and you have to feed your starving family. You have 1 bullet. you go hunting. You shoot the first squirrel you see, instead of waiting for a buffalo. Your family starves and then you say buffalos are OP.

I really don’t know how else to explain to you guys how stupid your arguments are.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

LOL so you have a “friend” oh how nice. Next time perhaps you should play a Prof. Also I never said i played a Necro. Or that i have problems playing them. Perhaps you should learn to read? You stated that we should just use our Gap openers. I was pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the game or what abilities Prof have, as Necro’s don’t have one.

uh no, i said in general use gap generators, stun breakers, dodges as a list of things any particular class may be able to do. you in turn said LOL WUT ABOUT NECROS

i’m also not the one having problems with the most basic combos in the game, so I guess I must have no understanding of this game, you’re right. assuming the game you are talking about is being terrible at guild wars 2

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but if we are given CC removers it stands to reason that we should use them on CC. Now if we should not use them on CC that means that some CC is better than others in other words broken (i.e quickness).

And no i am not going to give a list. If any one of us did
a) you would just say “nope, you suck at pvp noob”
b) you for some reason think you know the game better than us and for some reason we need to have our thoughts run by you the “pro”, or they don’t count. I hate to break this to you but your not the expert you think you are.

So no, not going to play your game. Since multiple people have pointed out that your list only has quickness on it. Perhaps its you that should put up a list.

here’s my list
1) anything that can kill me or put me into a position I can’t recover. it does depend on the situation but eating 15k damage is always this list.

here’s your list
1) the first thing that CC’s me

anyone who cant identify which is the correct list of things you can use your trinkets on, is not ready to be commenting about sPvP or balance

and great logic there – “we were given a skill so we should use it”. uh no. no one said you had to use a skill at the first opportunity. there are things like timing and analyzing the situation that determine what you should do at any given point in time. i don’t even know how you guys can argue this, i’d feel downright stupid for trying to do so

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

lol next time try playing a necro. What gap generator? Necro’s have to use dodge to keep them away.

So many bad players think that just because the Prof they play is fine with it, it must be fine for everyone.

Sorry, my friends and I have between us tried every class and the last thing we are scared of is quickness regardless of what class we’re on. My necro friend got the necro tourney title a week after the game was released and he’s the point holder. He’s eaten his share of quickness builds. And honestly if anything is bursting you down as a necro I don’t even know what to say. It’s one of the tankier classes. Your spec and/or play must just be terrible.

So many bad players think that just because other bad players complain about something, it must be OP.

Its a shame there are no popular streams, because the threat glass cannon builds are to someone who isn’t below average is laughable.

i was not immediately good at something so i am not going to do it more because it is stupid

MAKES SENSE TO ME

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

list what you think is worth dodging? do you even know?

Well if we are going to go off your list. its Quickness. and that’s it.

Very short list.

so i take this to mean, no you have no list and as soon as you get any sort of CC on you, there goes the trinket

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

So again if we are hit with hard CC. Stun, The expectation is that the other team is doing this for a reason. In other words they are going to hit you hard. Or they are setting up a combo. And yes there are only a few things to use those CD’s on. The problem is that your saying we should only use them for Quickness. That is broken.

Abilities that break CC should be used to break, well CC. If you can’t use those CC breakers just because they might us Quickness on you, that is broken.

How do you know when a CC will be followed by a quickness or not? Hint from us that have played the game. You can’t.

I’m not saying ‘only on quickness’. i’m saying if you’re going up against a 100 blades warrior, and you’ve already blown your CC’s when he crippled you, and then you also dodged some auto attacks, and then you used your gap generator just because he was pretty close to you and you didnt like it, and then wow you have nothing now omfg 100 blades frenzy QQ…..whose fault is that? its not cuz of quickness

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Yeah, lemme just do a tourney real quick and not dodge and cc break anything at all except for quickness and see how well it works out….

Seriously?

list what you think is worth dodging? do you even know?

i agree with this. ressing and staking is such a critical part of tourney, and guardians are by a wide margin the best at doing so uninterrupted, that it really makes having one a big boon. to the point they’re pigeonholed almost into being the staker/resser

then again maybe this is the vision they have for guardian, as the protector class. but it does make it so you’d tend to pick a guardian over anything else if you didn’t have a guardian

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

So again your saying that you have to save your D cd just for quickness. That is op. If you have to build around and play around a single boon, that is op. All you have done is state how OP quickness is.

and its not ‘building around’ to prevent quickness. quickness is a 60 second cooldown. stun breakers are usually 30-60 second cooldowns. you can have multiple stun breakers, they can only have 1 quickness. you’re not building or playing around anything. all the advantage is on you, not them, unless you are stupid enough to waste your skills on meaningless CCs.

are you really arguing that you can take a defensive skill without expecting when to use it?

I mean seriously there is such a small list of things you need to dodge or use CDs on. like maybe 4 things are on that list in the entire game. if one these things possibly might happen because they have the right classes to do it on the other team, is it REALLY that much to ask to not blow all your crap at the first opportunity to do so

Awake.6017:

Dallas.2536:

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

That’s the point, in team fights people are going to be constantly using their defensive cd’s during matches. I’m not talking about someone getting 1v3’d, but more about even altercations. People aren’t going to have all of their cd’s up all of the time. That’s why insta gibs with quickness are effective at the moment. My team runs with a pistol whip thief, and I can’t tell you how many teams he’s come up to a fight in progress and gibbed people in 1 quickness pistol whip in a 1 second stun by himself.

I’m all for learning to dodge and cd management and blah blah blah, but in reality, just the simple fact that 1 person can do THAT much burst in 1-2 seconds makes it wrong. The burst is just ridiculous, regardless whether or not it can be avoided or how often it can be done.

I would question what are these CDs being used on? If they are ‘constantly being used’, and not on the pistol whip combo, I’d say they’re being used incorrectly. If indeed they’re under so much pressure that they’ve had to use their CDs, then its a matter of team pressure forcing them into that spot, in which case it doesnt really matter if quickness kills them or just continued beatdown from the other team.

the only way to settle this is to look at how someone plays. i would bet the QQers are the ones who blow all their CDs the first time they get CC’d even if eating the CC wouldn’t hurt them much, and then they get destroyed by something else because they’re totally open.

they need to finish implementing tourney spectating so people can point this stuff out

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

1) dont run around with 16k hp

2) dont blow your stability / stun breakers on the first cc you run into

3) be ready to dodge

4) teammates should be ready to peel

4) recognize that your attitude of asking for skills to be removed from a new game is a loser’s attitude. quickness is a skill that is meant to provide burst at a long CD and with vulnerabilities. it does what it is meant to do. it is not a GG button unless you are bad, period.

5) when you claim things like “this wasnt in gw1” realize i just listed 3 skills that are quickness and were in GW1 and I could name another 5 if I looked through the wiki

and the reason i dont respect you is like i said, 100% of the time someone goes super emo with “X is OP I’m quitting the game unless you remove it” the person is a baddie. i mean really why are you still here, at the rate anet patches PvP nothing is going to change for months.

LoL so we can’t use our stun breakers to break stuns? That’s your answer? So we should all just never dodge or us any D abilities because oh no some one might use quickness. Sorry if that is what your saying than quickness is broken.

so you get feared off the bat in a fight and you use your stun breaker?

if you are going to take a stun breaker, and you’re going to use it indiscriminately, whats the point? there is a very short list of things that would require dodging or using utility skills for. learn to use skills when they should be used, and not as soon as you have the opportunity to use them, otherwise you end up making stupid threads like this

Awake.6017:

You can fight back against quickness 1v1

You can’t fight back against quickness in team fights. It’s just not feasible to tell people to learn to dodge when you dodge a stun, and then immediately get stunned by someone else at the end of your roll, you pop a stun break/port/invuln/ect, adn then 3 seconds later when it ends a hasted quickness thief opens on you and kills you in 2 seconds.

You can’t dodge everything. You can do everything that you can to stay alive, but everyone here is limited to how much they can avoid. If you could avoid everything then no one would get hit by anything. Most classes that rely on quickness kills in the hands of good players will actively make sure that when they do burst, their opponent CAN’T avoid it.

Regardless, no class in the game should be taking anything from 100% to 10% in 1-2 seconds by themselves. Especially from hitting 1 button.

no class in the game is doing that alone. even the situation you described requires 2 people to coordinate on one person. 2v1, yeah the 1 guy should go down. and 2v1 if the 1 is specced to be a point holder, no crappy quickness burst is going to down him.

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

1) dont run around with 16k hp

2) dont blow your stability / stun breakers on the first cc you run into

3) be ready to dodge

4) teammates should be ready to peel

4) recognize that your attitude of asking for skills to be removed from a new game is a loser’s attitude. quickness is a skill that is meant to provide burst at a long CD and with vulnerabilities. it does what it is meant to do. it is not a GG button unless you are bad, period.

5) when you claim things like “this wasnt in gw1” realize i just listed 3 skills that are quickness and were in GW1 and I could name another 5 if I looked through the wiki

and the reason i dont respect you is like i said, 100% of the time someone goes super emo with “X is OP I’m quitting the game unless you remove it” the person is a baddie. i mean really why are you still here, at the rate anet patches PvP nothing is going to change for months.

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

Saereth.8306:

I trend to agree, the main issue for me is balance. PVP was much more balanced in GW1. As an elementalist, against coordinated teams in tournament play, life is miserable, you are most often taken down so fast, even with excellent skill usage, timing, dodging and defensives that you have very little impact on the game play other than support DPS when you’re able to fulfill that role with S/D.

On the other hand, I roll up a thief and won 3 tournaments in a row having never played the class before. Did quite well with mesmer and warrior I won every single 1v1 encounter and most certainly contributed to the wins.

The game obviously shouldnt be balanced for 1v1, but in GW1 each class had another class/build they would excel as countering, it doesnt feel like that is the case for elementalist and engineer, those two classes feel very week.

With full toughness/vit/power build sitting around 17k health and 2800 armor, the elementalist can still be burst down with HS spam faster than they can even call for help more times than not unless they have every CD at their disposal and even then it’s usually a VERY close fight which generally results in the ele running/kiting to team members. If you are build glass cannon you of course get instabursted.

In world v world the opposite is true, as an elementalist you’re able to wreck with AOE damage from behind your lines making the class extremely strong.

In hotjoin, there are enough players, and less skilled players that elementalist feels just right, it’s a good challenge but players arent good enough from what I’ve found to shut you down that hard, that often.

Tournament play is the big issue here for eles and engineers.

Anet put out balance patches quite frequently in GW1 to really help pvp be competitive and rewarding, I hope they can accomplish the same here. As an ele player all through beta and over 70 tournament matches since launch I’m at a point where I just find it better for my team to roll with one of the other classes until there are some changes, which is unfortunate as I love the playstyle and feel of that class.

17k health is too little, period. For playing against anything in sPvP. You cant blame the game for choosing to run around with 17k health, regardless how much armor you have. If you put on a knights amulet and swap out for whatever sigil you want, then you’ll have 22k+ and actually be able to take a burst.

Like you said its a different game in tourney than hotjoin or WvW. Just like in GW1, if you have a halls build, and you go into RA with it, its going to suck and vice versa. sPvP, unless you are willing to take the risk of getting blown up in 2 seconds you shouldnt be running with less than 22k HP and doing 10-20% less damage.

Spaghetti.3862:

I’d say farther than “if they want it to be an Esport.” If they still want people to care about sPvP at all, they need to add these features, or at least say something, and they need to do it soon.

I agree. At this point its more like if they want anyone who wants to mainly pvp to still play the game after a month.

I think if they were really hell bent on releasing Aug 28th, they should have just made it PvE only, and then put out a free expansion later introducing PvP once its actually able to hold the attention of players.

The first week of sPvP was pretty fun. The organized teams were mostly the only ones queueing and you’d get good games and Kyhlo was usually a challenge.

Now people have realized 8v8 is a worthless garbage format and they get more stuff from losing most of the time in 5v5, so more and more people are queuing tourney, completely diluting the competitive level. Now the whole 3 maps is likely to be a series of randoms of about the same skill level and its just a faceroll.

My level 80 friend says he is basically wrecking people in WvW because the scaling (or lack thereof it). So yeah I’m not really eager to jump in there with my level 2 guy and start taking 3k autoattacks haha.

there’s nothing wrong with WvW or people who like WvW but no one should look at a server’s WvW standing and take that as an indication of how good that server is at pvp. of course there is nothing else right now like leaderboards or tourney winner announcements, so I guess there’s really no way to tell.

these things are coming but the important question is when? its kind of like SWTOR taking 8 months to put out a rated system for PvP. who is going to play sPvP as it is now for 8 months? I’ve noticed that the competition level in tourney has dropped off already in the last week as more randoms start solo queuing. The only ‘competitive’ format we have right now is going to turn into random arenas pretty soon without matchmaking.

since BWE1 and now its been a good 4 months. there’s hardly been any sPvP update except for 2 maps and changing variables around on skills. based on this, I don’t think it is reasonable to expect things as big as an ELO system or monthly tournies to be implemented any time soon. It took over 2 weeks to even get chests to be given correctly upon tourney completion, so thats the kind of development speed we’re dealing with here.

from an esport perspective this game was totally not ready for release. right now sPvP just feel like a tacked on last minute feature of the game and not something that is supposed to be a focus

not to be pessimistic, but thats the reality of it from my perspective

Anlyon.8375:

See the quickness buff.
Stun
Burst
??
Take your free glory.

or you can do what he die

See the quickness buff.
Get owned.
Make a thread about how he’s quitting GW2 until they remove quickness.

That’s only 3 steps so I guess it won out.

definitely. there is no challenge in free tourney because most of the time you just get put up against random pugs on all three maps.

for esport there needs to be

1) competition – no competition right now, mostly just beating on pugs with the occasional challenging matchup against a similar organized team
2) prestige – no fame right now, no one can see your matches, no one knows what guilds win a lot, you go outside the mists and you just look like any other guy. at least add a server wide message “team X has just won a tourney” or “team X is dominating, winning 3 tourneys in a row” or something. add a ranking too for real.
3) variety – its really kind of boring playing the same 3 maps over and over, especially given point #1 about the level of competition. boring to play = even more boring to watch

Dreadspectre.3456:

We have a pro team? All I know is Anvil Rock get’s stomped on in WvWvW.

yah we suck at WvW but thats because all the pvpers are doing tourneys all day and have level 2’s outside of the mists lol

if you do a burning dps guardian the damage is pretty good. its not as bursty as a warrior can get with frenzy, but its pretty strong 1 v 1.

overall guardian is a better class in terms of versatility and tourney viability. warrior is great to stomp on noobs, but there is a steeper drop-off vs high end play.

anvil rock has the ‘pro’ team like team paradigm. using the word pro liberally b/c gw2 is not close to being esport level.

anyway, doesn’t really matter what server you’re on because you can queue cross server for spvp

when i 8v8 i put a pretty high emphasis on getting as much glory as i can, so even if someone is capping a point i’ll go there for 10 free points. i’ll also do things like do ranged attacked on guys who are downed already so i get free points from their deaths lol

8v8 to me is just testing builds, playing casual, farming some glory when your tourney team is not on, so i’m not going to expect people to play a team game

Sweeet.8127:

Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. The people defending Quickness either don’t play the game competitively, or have some pretty bad self-esteem issues – or they’re just bad and rely on Quickness as their saving grace.

generally speaking people like yourself who make statements along the lines of “X is OP and I’m quitting until they remove it” are the ones who are bad. just sayin. winners dont have attitudes like that

Dreadspectre.3456:

Dallas.2536:

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

Please stop acting like you don’t die and get blown up by the random Warrior or Theif popping up from behind you because you were busy dealing with their teammates in a team based game and get destroyed in a few seconds because of quickness.

I don’t rage quit. I just know a bad mechanic when I see one. There’s always those people who come onto the forums and are like “oh it’s for noobs only etc etc” yet there is plenty of evidence to the contrary if you do any tourneys at all.

Burst will always be king in PvP. Frankly, I’m amazed that Mesmers aren’t packing the AoE quickness elite more than they do.

Quickness adds nothing of value to this game. All it does is take TTK down way too low to have any sort of enjoyable fighting experience. Yeah, you can dodge it in a 1v1, I’m not talking about a 1v1. I’m talking about team environments. Someone drops 1 CC and your stability is on CD? Dead.

Games should not be like that.

i really don’t very often. i didn’t say never. i play tourney 80% of the time. 8v8 maybe there is a greater chance someone will blindside you, but 8v8 is not what anet is balancing around.

other than quickness burst, what do you need your dodges and defensive cds for? not a very long list of things. i dont spam them the first time I get feared or start taking some hits, so I rarely take quickness bursts to their full extent and those builds inevitably end up being big burst/not much outside of that, so can be dealt with afterwards

Xahz.8406:

Dallas.2536:

i thought it was wierd as well that immobilize isnt covered by stability when things like blind and daze are

Immobilize and Fear are conditions, not control. Not saying it makes sense of course

thats cool, but stability gets rid of fear :x

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

i am 25, but it doesn’t mean anything at all. anyone can grind pvp glory ‘rank’. they need an actual ranking which is a result of tourney win %.

i thought it was wierd as well that immobilize isnt covered by stability when things like blind and daze are

I don’t know what happened over the last couple weeks but now when I queue with my guild premade, we rarely play against guild groups anymore, even on Kyhlo. I don’t know if it’s because more people are joining solo, or less 5s are queuing.

The first couple weeks were great because you’d usually get some randoms the first match, then by the time you got to Kyhlo you knew you’d be in for a good fight against 5 organized people, but now its just pubstomp a lot of the time and I don’t really feel like I’m accomplishing anything through winning.

So I’d like a RA / TA type system. Maybe the tourney winners from the random queue can opt to stay together and be put in 5’ queue if they want, if there is a problem with population for the 5s queue.

hot join is not a good indicator of how good a build is and i hope they’re not balancing around the zergfest that is hotjoin

ShRNA.4376:

PvP Incentive is to have fun.
But the problem is that the current system is not fun in many aspects. Especially the hot joinable format, which is just a mindless zergfest with no incentive to win at all.
They should just bring back the Random arena format from GW1. It allows you to fight different foes every match, very fast paced, encourage team work from random people by rewarding consecutive wins. It was by far the best PvP format that I have played in any game. I can not understand why they abandoned it in GW2.

Just do tourneys. It’s in no way a guild vs guild tourney right now, I’d estimate 80% of teams are just solos or groups of at most 3 people joining.

This is very disappointing to me. There is no fun in stomping pubs with a 5 group, but I also want to play with my friends.

I pvp for fun, but the actual content available is quite lacking right now. I’m glory rank 25 so I’ve played a loooot of hotjoin and tourneys (500+ total games), but at this point I really don’t log in except for 1 or 2 tourneys with the guild every couple days.

I don’t want to have uber gear that no one else can compete with but right now the rewards are just so terrible compared to every single other mmo including GW1 that it’s a stark contrast and does make things feel pretty pointless.

I spend all my glory on boxes which open up to give the same crap I’ve gotten 100 times already, the level curve is exponential and is at a point where I need to pvp a full day to even get 1 level, and every 10 levels I get a new finisher that I can’t even use outside of the mists.

Plus there is no leaderboards, no bragging rights, and a lot of the good teams have already stopped playing because there is no way this is going eSport any time soon. It used to be the last round of a tourney you’d face off against a good guild team. The last two weeks I literally haven’t lost a single match, and the last round is usually a bunch of randoms that we steamroll, and then we get a gold box of crap we already have.