Guild Wars 2

signed

no matter what you’re wearing you look like an ugly apple or a smurf

just play the thoroughly unenjoyable 8v8 where everyone runs glass cannon builds

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

well phantaram from paradigm made my warrior look embarrassing last night on his ele lol

As damage, I think they are too gimmicky and thus too easily countered at high level competition, and if when they get real matchmaking implemented you won’t see many at high tier games, except maybe in a support or point holding role.

If they can make warrior less viable to faceroll baddies and average players, but more viable in higher tier games, that would be an improvement. It really shines right now versus average to bad players because it can kill them really fast, but any skilled player using any other class would attain the same results. It would just be less obvious because its over a longer period of time.

Plague made a good point about dps warriors not ‘doing’ as much as other classes. Traitwise its mostly getting things like 10% damage vs bleeding, 10% damage with a certain weapon, etc, which leads to a very stat-driven gimmicky build. And then to effectively deliver damage, the utility skills pretty much always need bulls rush and frenzy and stability, and if you swap any of those out you are asking for trouble.

If anyone played HoN, I would say warriors in a damage role are kind of like Deadwood. You can destroy everything up until 1650 or so, then the dropoff is dramatic and you never see him in competitive games.

So, it all makes sense now, you actually feel that the only way to be an effective damage dealing warrior is to run a frenzy build… No wonder you get so antsy when people request it be removed or toned down.

I’m not saying Warriors are fine without it, just that you have a major conflict of interest going on there buddy. Warriors definitely need a tweak, but Quickness is NOT the answer to their current situation, I’m sure even you can see that.

The very fact a build has to rely on an ability like Quickness, not only shows how broken Warriors are, but how powerful Quickness is. Both could do with a reasonable tweak.

no im accepting of the situation and am in the process of transitioning from warrior :P

frenzy destroys noobs. it always has and always will. drops off dramatically against higher tier players. I argue against people who want to remove frenzy because I don’t think the answer to bad play is to encourage it by removing things that cause it. it would be better for the bad players to get better, no?

aleiro.8521:

if you hit play now the system searches you a game with similarly ranked players, meaning players that have done pvp as much as you

if you hit play now you might end up on raid on the capricorn, which i would do anything to avoid.

its a stupid system and one of the many things which don’t make sense about 8v8. they put in this rudimentary matchmaking, then give people the option to go around it. indeed the ‘play now’ button is so small in that little corner that most people probably don’t even see it. and then you get into the actual theory that rank = skill, and past the first few levels where people are just totally new to it, that correlation should take a massive dive.

while you are at it I would like to obtain pvp rank 80 in 2 weeks please

Ahlen.7591:

Have you ever tried to be, or fought, a heavy CC warrior? They’re hell on earth to deal with in a small area or in a team fight.

I’ve run into a couple of nearly unkillable warriors myself.

like I said, the most viable tourney spec right now is as a point holder. and then some drop-off to a support role. and then way down the list is as a damage/roamer. and there are still other classes which can do the first two things better than warrior, so really if you’re a pro team there’s not good reason to take one!

well phantaram from paradigm made my warrior look embarrassing last night on his ele lol

As damage, I think they are too gimmicky and thus too easily countered at high level competition, and if when they get real matchmaking implemented you won’t see many at high tier games, except maybe in a support or point holding role.

If they can make warrior less viable to faceroll baddies and average players, but more viable in higher tier games, that would be an improvement. It really shines right now versus average to bad players because it can kill them really fast, but any skilled player using any other class would attain the same results. It would just be less obvious because its over a longer period of time.

Plague made a good point about dps warriors not ‘doing’ as much as other classes. Traitwise its mostly getting things like 10% damage vs bleeding, 10% damage with a certain weapon, etc, which leads to a very stat-driven gimmicky build. And then to effectively deliver damage, the utility skills pretty much always need bulls rush and frenzy and stability, and if you swap any of those out you are asking for trouble.

If anyone played HoN, I would say warriors in a damage role are kind of like Deadwood. You can destroy everything up until 1650 or so, then the dropoff is dramatic and you never see him in competitive games.

what exactly is being lost when you get rolled the first 20 matches by people who have played for weeks more than you? its a learning process. just suck it up. start with a basic build and go from there.

yeah its annoying as hell. otherwise i’ll bulls charge, knock the guy down, but he will be still too far away (he gets a mini teleport to just be outside of range) so 100 blades is wasted.

its just a latency issue as far as I can tell…not much you can do about it

yep. group stealth is by far the best one because it helps you rally/stomp, it can be used every team fight, and it syncs well with lyssa runes.

unfortunately all 3 of these points are 5v5 relevant, and i do believe this is a 8v8 topic

Suds.7235:

Dallas.2536:

good luck!

wat sucks about trying to do something like this is that without a rating system its really hard to figure out if people are your level or not!

It doesn’t take long to figure it out.

its still a big pain in thekitten say you are trying to get a random tourney team. instead of being able to say “x rated blah looking for tourney group, please be at least y rating” you have to just get 4 random people, fail a couple times before you realize okay this guy is just not getting it done, find a replacement, try again, etc etc

you are just better off solo queuing than asking for randoms really. a rating system would make all this a lot easier, thats all i’m sayin

lol what a bunch of sad sacks. i wouldn’t worry about this, farming glory has to be the biggest waste of time ever.

if you dont have downed state there is nothing to prevent silliness like 5 mesmer duelist/beserker spike team from destroying every other comp with ease. 321 spike comps are one thing they correctly didn’t bring over from gw1.

you guys are theorycrafting without realizing the consequences of what you ask for. whatever annoyance with downed state you feel, you’d feel 10x as much if you were playing against rit spike or some other cheesy GW1 comp

Sky.9347:

Dallas.2536:

Sky.9347:

Dallas.2536:

its worse with sPvP. you get no rewards except for some new skins which you cant take outside of sPvP, a finisher you cant take outside of sPvP, and a title that really no one cares about.

at least in WvW you can improve your character still :P

“no rewards” except these three different kind of rewards… ?

no tangible rewards. i can be the greatest pvper in the game, but as soon as i leave the mists i am back to being a scruffy looking level 2 charr with only a title to show for it.

The Mists and normal PvE zones are completely separate. You go to the mists and get instant access to everything you’ll need to be 100% on par with everyone else. Why should your earnings there have any impact on the normal world, when nothing you’ve done or not done in the normal world has any impact there?

because I want people to know I’m the best pvper ever! DUH

no, its just per type I think. in any case I tested this out and its an insignificant amount. like 1% per boon insignificant.

I was thinking this + lyssa runes, then when I used my elite signet I’d have like a dozen boons on me for 10 seconds, but even then the bonus damage was at most 10%.

good luck!

wat sucks about trying to do something like this is that without a rating system its really hard to figure out if people are your level or not!

Sky.9347:

Dallas.2536:

its worse with sPvP. you get no rewards except for some new skins which you cant take outside of sPvP, a finisher you cant take outside of sPvP, and a title that really no one cares about.

at least in WvW you can improve your character still :P

“no rewards” except these three different kind of rewards… ?

no tangible rewards. i can be the greatest pvper in the game, but as soon as i leave the mists i am back to being a scruffy looking level 2 charr with only a title to show for it.

BobTheJanitor.4936:

Two things that might help this. First, point out to players when they leave that they are not getting their accumulated glory for the match (since it doesn’t give it to you until the game is over… at least I’m pretty sure that’s how it works).

you’d think so as this would make a lot more sense, but no. some times i am missing 10 glory to buy a salvage kit or something so i’ll just join a 8v8, cap a point, and leave :P

also what is stupid is that when i join a game sometimes, if i see one side is winning by 200 points or something, i’ll just switch to the winning side if it was an even number of players before i joined. then the irony is that if someone on my original losing team leaves, the autobalance will likely put someone who actually contributed to the win on the losing team and I get a free win:P

Sol.3296:

Go play tPvP if you want perfect games. sPvP is simply for fast pvp games with randoms and is supposed to be easily accessible, which it currently is.

Sure, it’s annoying when I can a last minute auto-rebalance, but it happens once a session max and that isn’t enough to warrant changing the current system.

I do agree the ‘play now’ button needs to weigh up the amount of games with less than 10 players and start to prioritise them until they have 5v5, and then look to topping up the other games.

this is what i was going to say. go play tourney if you want balanced games. 8v8 is just a mess

its worse with sPvP. you get no rewards except for some new skins which you cant take outside of sPvP, a finisher you cant take outside of sPvP, and a title that really no one cares about.

at least in WvW you can improve your character still :P

if you want a WvW presence you should just join one of the big ol’ zerg guilds on yak’s bend. not many guilds are ‘serious’ about WvW which is almost by definition casual pvp

if you’re afk you dont actually get any points. the # of glory you get is whatever your score is, which only comes from capping/killing/supporting.

so really I haven’t seen a big problem with afkers or bots…maybe i am missing something?

when the pvp servers crash and all the map rotations are reset so all you can join is 200+ raid on the crapicorns, i go get a drink rather than join :X

the main problem is you cannot stake a guy underwater which is stupid. you also cant HIT them when they’re floating on the surface. in combination it takes way way too long to kill anybody.

well if this game ever goes do esports stuff it will 100% not be based on WvW. that being said sPvP right now is also pretty much random people since there is no rating or matchmaking system, so I wouldnt argue too hard that sPvP is for the hardcore pvpers.

what I think is that if you are good at tourneys you can probably bring your spec into a WvW game and contribute well. if you’re good at WvW it wont translate to winning tourneys to the same extent.

a good idea, but for the time being if you want to do something like add a [TOURNEY] prefix in the subject, maybe that would work. it is definitely worthwhile to separate 5v5 talk from 8v8 talk

RamzaBehoulve.5640:

You actually get more Glory in 8v8 by a fair margin if you manage to stack kills. It’s pretty much its only saving grace at the moment.

okay i will give you that. if you want to farm glory, you can do stuff like only play kyhlo and spam trebuchet shots into the zerg for 300 a map.

i was factoring bonus glory from reward chests, but you are right, if you really wanted to farm glory you could do it faster in 8v8.

Krustydog.1043:

I apologize for my comments. Years of trolling in WoW is a bad habit to break. Pretty much the game is good theres just a few balance issues was all I was trying to say. If you took that as whining my condolences. If they dont balance it I’ll just roll one of said classes. No big deal.

yes PLEASE roll these OP classes. not to troll you but once you play them in tourney you will see they are not as OP as you would think.

Anet has stated this format exists so that new players can ‘get a feel for the game’ and learn without being a drag on their teams but

1) who even cares if they win or lose in hotjoin? the only difference is like 50 glory and no one takes the format seriously
2) it a terrible misleading introduction to sPvP – all anyone ‘gets a feel’ for is zerging around while using gimmick glass cannon builds
3) the casuals want to play with their casual friends and they can’t do this without switching teams and they probably dont even know how to do this.
4) overloading a map with 60% more players than its supposed to play with is not fun. if you want to discourage and confuse new players, way to go.

Basically 8v8 is garbage. It satisfies nobody and it just creates an endless amount of misconceptions about balance while reducing teamplay instinct.

If you are a player who is trying to get a feel for PvP, play tourney. More and more people are catching onto this. It is much better and funner than 8v8 and on top of that its mostly random people anyway which is the real irony.

1) Get more glory
2) Get more loot
3) Maps actually feel like they’re properly spaced
4) Mostly pugs and 2/3 groups anyway. Yeah there will be organized 5 man that stomp pugs, but there aren’t as many as you would think.

i like how it is now. you dont have to be in a party to help someone out with a banner. or a conjured weapon if you’re an ele.

the numbers on regen for banners are misleading as it is over the lifetime of the banner. you’ll see something like 27k healing if you max healing, but in reality its about 200 hp a tick or something like that, which is pretty garbage when you’re taking real damage. also from what I experienced, they dont stack, so you cant just put down 4 banners and get 800hp a second regen…which actually would be pretty sweet

shouts are about 1k as generalbluebees said.

in any case you will never manage to outheal anything big hehe

this was definitely a stupid decision. their reasoning was that ‘we dont want a new player to cripple his team, so we will make it 8v8 so the effect is less’.

instead what happens is that pretty much 80% of players in 8v8 are new/casual players, and then they get spammed down by gimmick builds and QQ on forums because they think that’s what tourney PvP is like. and the most important thing they overlooked is that NO ONE CARES IF YOU WIN OR LOSE IN 8v8 ANYWAY.

8v8 is a garbage format only useful for testing build ideas. even if I’m solo, I queue for tourney instead because

1) you get more glory, even if you rarely win
2) you get more loot when you do win
2) people are less stupid and the maps actually have correct sizing for the number of players
3) you rarely go up against 5 man teams anyway, and many of them aren’t that great

more and more people are just queuing for tourney solo or in smaller than 5 groups now that they realize tourney > 8v8 for everything

THE PVP TIER LIST

good players
———————————————
average players
———————————————
bad players who get destroyed by quickness and qq on forums

Ahlen.7591:

You can’t argue from the perspective that people should always have their CC breaks available, because they won’t be. So it shouldn’t be an automatic victory if they do not have them.

first, its not an automatic victory unless they are running around with 14k hp and cant absorb a burst.

also why dont they have their CC breaks available? if its because they’ve been forced to use them to save themselves from others, and then they get jumped by another guy, then they were outnumbered so too bad for them because losing to superior numbers is the way things work. if on the other hand they don’t have them because they wasted them on CC’s that wouldn’t have done anything to them anyway, then too bad, they used them poorly. most CC breakers have lower CDs than the 1 minute CD of quickness skills, so unless they are being misused they should be up in a 1 on 1.

this right here would solve 75% of thief/warrior QQ

Skolops.2604:

evilapprentice.6379:

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

You are -exactly- the person this post is referencing. You don’t bring any empirical evidence, just vague notions and complaints. No examples, no explanations, just “Waah, thieves hit too hard.”
If a thief is hitting you that hard, he’s glass cannon, or you are – there are ways to counter; Learn them, or get used to the feeling that every spec/class that beats you is OP.

This is not accurate. I have builds for both Ranger and Warrior which are not glass cannons by any means but can down a person in seconds if I can get a stun or immobilize off on them.

The only thing I’d agree with you on is that this is not a thief specific problem. It’s a greater issue with the way several overall game mechanics interact:

1) Heavy hitting attacks designed with dodge/evade in mind
2) Large supply of CCs across all/most classes
3) Low supply of CC breaks per class
4) Team play where several players can chain CCs on an individual

1) dodge should not be used liberally. if you’re dodging twice at the start of every fight and evading some useless autoattacks, and then you get blown up by evisercate…kinda on you right?
2) same as #1. if someone uses their CC breakers the first time they get slowed, or on meaningless fears, and then they dont have it up for when they really need it…its their own fault.
3) each class has at least 3 utility CC breaks, and they ALL have shorter CD than quickness burst skills
4) several players vs 1 player. who should win?

Gentso.1852:

CC breakers are usually always down in sPvP. And regardless, the damage thieves do is too high. You just can’t justify insane damage for any class by saying you should break stun.

CC breakers all have significantly lower cooldowns than quickness skills which generate the burst. to be caught often means you were either fighting multiple people, in which case the point is irrelevant, or you’re wasting them on the first meaningless cripple/fear which hits you, and then when the real threat comes along you have nothing.

Its like going hunting to feed your starving family and you have only 1 bullet, and you shoot the first squirrel you see, and then you cant kill any buffalo because you’re out of bullets, and then your family starves, and then you blame buffalo for being OP.

one point i took away from this is that you feel melee needs to be nerfed in general and more specifically the burst aspect. i feel this is dangerous ground because if you take away burst from the melee, they are effectively useless due to kiting. if I am melee, against competent players I will only be able to hit them for a little while before they peel off of me. outside of this time, my damage is pretty much 0. so if during this time I am unable to do enough damage to make up for doing 0 damage at other times, then melee becomes fodder.

melee is all about setup. there always tends to be a lot of QQ from crappy players who only see the burst without ever understanding the setup. you can call me biased since i do primarily play melee characters, but in my opinion if you are a ranged guy, and you have used all your snare breakers, and you get CC’d next to a melee guy for 3-4 seconds, you SHOULD expect to die or be badly hurt.

whats the difference if they just change the order though?

and no one wants capricorn so thats out for sure!

its not even possible to play gw2 competitively right now, so kind of hard to support this

WHENEVER I DIE SOMETHING IS OP

do you have a single tourney win yet, or did you just play some 8v8 and now you are the pvp knowledge master and know all about balancing?

hauskamies.9683:

The free tournament description explicitly tells that if you join as a partial roster, it matches you up against partial rosters. Problem solved, yes?

it either doesn’t do this, or it tries for a bit then if it cant it’ll throw you against a premade.

i know this because every day we are destroying random pugs much more than we are playing against 5 mans, and it gets really boring.

matchmaking needs a lot of work, its not fun for anyone to have 2 teams of different levels playing against each other

1) the skill is called hundred blades. would have hoped over your 80 levels as a warrior you would at least know the name of the skill you want to nerf

2) i’d like to see what moves you are doing which is killing someone in 1 second. because that means you are killing something in 2 seconds without quickness. please tell me what is your combo that does 20k damage in 2 second so i can start using it as well

3) what experience are you basing this on? do you have any tourney wins or did you just get owned in 8v8 and decided to come here crying for nerf

you need downed. otherwise what happens is you get teams doing things like 5 mesmer, and they just call 321spike and boom someone’s dead. with downed you have to play as a team more, instead of just calling out spikes on skype.

trust me, anyone who played gw1 seriously in halls or TA will attest to this.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Dallas.2536:

oh by the way what you said here?

“And really takeing 50% more damage for 4 sec is nothing. Just use it when you know your not getting focused. Its so short of a time that the other team does not have the ability to react and use that 50% to their advantage.”

i have found out the problem. you have the reflexes of a rock. anet does not balance around rocks.

Ah so you have no arguments and are back to attack fellow posters. I will take this as a no. Again for the reading impaired.

until your hit with someone using quickness there is very little indication that they have it on. So that takes time off of that. Than you have to say in “you fill in what you use” to tell other members what is going on. You have to tell them who and what. Next your team has to react to this information. Again all this takes time. Than your team has to wait for their current actions to finish (or get out of it). Again takes time. All of witch means that the window of time you have to take advantage of that weakness gets smaller and smaller.

It is very hard, who am i kidding, impossible to take any thing you say seriously when you make statements like this.

Oh I get it, you just run bots in your spvp games.

do you really think people are like that on voice comms? clearly you have not ever played a game of tournament in a organized setting.

person a: HELLO SIR I AM BEING ATTACKED I BELIEVE HE IS USING QUICKNESS. I WOULD LIKE ASSISTANCE PLEASE

person b: UNDERSTOOD I WILL ASSIST.

person a: ALAS I HAVE PASSED.

person b: OH NO :’(

here’s what really happens:

person a: lol this guy frenzied.

person a: and he’s dead

person b: what akitten lol

i will literally cancel my account if you can stream your tournament history from in-game and you have even 10 wins. TEN WINS. this is how confident I am that you have no clue what is going on

oh by the way what you said here?

“And really takeing 50% more damage for 4 sec is nothing. Just use it when you know your not getting focused. Its so short of a time that the other team does not have the ability to react and use that 50% to their advantage.”

i have found out the problem. you have the reflexes of a rock. anet does not balance around rocks.

ps. I know you have no point. now you’re saying oh its not from a single player? i mean really?

1) that just makes it more important to avoid. like you know, everyone’s been telling you? doesnt matter if 8 people hit you at once, if you dodge you dodge.
2) i didn’t know when 2 people gang up to kill someone, the proper response is to nerf a skill that one of the people is using. you know, instead of accepting that it was 1v2 and if you didnt dodge you’re taking a lot of damage

anyway i’m going home now. if you want to prove your amazing point you can play whatever quickness build you want, and if you can kill me once in 15 minutes i’ll concede you absolutely know what you are talking about. I wont even go tank builds, I’ll just have a couple trinkets and my heal. only thing is its going up on youtube after.

okay, so you were unable to come up with a combination of skills that can do your ridiculous claim of 20k damage in 4 seconds. because it doesn’t exist. my point is proven, you know not of which you speak, thank you.

im not sure its possible to have a productive conversation with you when you make claims like “killing someone in 1-2 sec”

please tell me what skills can do 20k damage in 2-4 seconds normally. because that is basically what you are saying – doing these skills, but with quickness, will be 1-2 seconds.

demonstrative.9176:

Wouldn’t say this thread is a negative/frustration thread. It’s turning into one perhaps. Most people here just want some reassurance or some semblance of a timeline or show of progress.

well i guess i was more negative than I had to be when I said this is not anywhere close to competitive sPvP ready, but really that is the state of the game. at a minimum GW2 needs a rating/matchmaking system so that people can play people of their skill level. that’s pretty much the definition of fair competition, and without it people of all skill levels will be put off long-term by continuously getting theirkitten kicked/handing other people theirkitten

on a positive note, i think the game is quite balanced for release, and they do have the talent there to make a great pvp game based on their work in gw1, so they just need to identify that this is an area the game is lacking in and do something about it.

they said they were redesigning it

part of the description rallied nearby allies if you killed something while it was active. which made no sense as this action would rally nearby allies regardless of if you used IWAY or not, so basically for a longkitten cooldown it did very little.

edit: already pointed out was this