Guild Wars 2

Shanks.2907:

I’ve appreciated being able to turn other boosters into magic find through the vendor though, as I too had a bank tab full of them.

I had no idea we could convert boosters. Its amazing how much stuff I still learn about this game while reading the forum.

It seems I’m in good company. I’ve only used one of the free ones and the rest are just sitting in my bank. The one I used was a crafting booster to get weaponsmithing from 400 to 450 as cheaply as possible.

shion.2084:

As each dungeon has it’s own “looking for” would you be happy if they just had a pvp group sub-category?

Are you referring to the Looking for forum or the in game LFG tool? It sounds to me like the OP is referring to the forum section and you are referring to the in-game tool.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

At the time they told us that they wanted the Mystic Toilet to return “a greater range of items”, which is devspeak for “more junk that you didn’t actually want”.

[Sarcasm] Oh, good. I used to worry the Mystic Toilet was tossing out too many upgrades in exchange for worthless junk. Glad to see they fixed that! [/sarcasm]

Iyeru.5240:

Make Champion Events rotate through champions that are less killed in the world of Tyria (Such as the Champ Krait Witches)

Ooh! That gives me another idea. How about:

- Defeat insert one of the various kills required to unlock grandmaster traits

That could help players get their unlocks accomplished.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Mashing the one key in downed state even though Bandage is a channeled skill and you only need to push it once.

I knew it was channeled, but for some reason it never occurred to me to stop mashing it anyway. Duh!

I see a few common issues raised in regard to the new PvE dailies. The old PvE and the new PvP and WvW dailies were/are mostly things that just happen naturally while playing, whereas the new PvE dailies are not. The change from Daily Gatherer / Dodger / Kills / Reviver / Condition Applier to what we have now is too drastic to be anything other than intentional, so I’m going to assume Anet deliberately decided to remove that for PvE.

I think the other issues could be addressed, and in my opinion even improve the PvE dailies and make them useful. We’ve all read the complaints, seen the zone event zergfest, had the daily world boss be something that isn’t scheduled again for another hour and a half, and shook our heads at the thought of a level 19-29 fractal being a reasonable daily task. The justification offered by many players is that dailies should encourage us to leave our comfort zones, get out of ruts, and experience other aspects of the game. Assuming we aren’t going to get the old style options back, maybe we should embrace the idea of using the PvE dailies to encourage varied gameplay and suggest useful options for doing things that might actually be worth doing.

Of the current ones, I think region specific gathering and mystic forging work okay for easy and all level inclusive options. Everyone can get to Lions Arch and throw some random stuff in the forge, and at least region specific gathering gives low levels an incentive to travel to other regions where there are additional level appropriate zones. Additionally, the any fractal daily makes a decent harder option that encourages people to try something worthwhile but which they might not otherwise do.

Perhaps we can suggest some alternatives for the rest that might be worth doing without just asking to go back to things that require no effort. Perhaps things like:

- Complete any world boss
- Complete any dungeon path
- Gather badges / open chests / complete events in the Silverwastes
- Do things in Orr that open temples so people can buy karma gear
- Craft something that gives you crafting XP

I’m sure players can come up with other/better suggestions, but perhaps this is a more promising route toward obtaining better PvE options for us than simply complaining that the current ones are too specific and or don’t happen naturally anymore.

Neural.1824:

I’d have to say the top of my list when I was new was combo fields.

Kraljevo.2801:

Crafting, WvW, Orr temples and their mechanics, inventory management (I didn’t know you could deposit all the materials

Ha,ha, ha… noobs!

(Makes sticky note to remind self to research combo field mechanics and Orr temples.)

mtpelion.4562:

DavidH.7380:

The new ones fail miserably at that too…

…Personally, I can’t help but get the impression that the PvE dailies were intentionally designed to push people to fractals, the PvP dailies, or the WvW dailies, rather than to provide PvE options of a similar nature.

You start out claiming that they fail at their goal, then end up concluding that they are doing exactly what you claim they fail to do.

Maybe I wasn’t clear. I was trying to claim:

1) that the PvP and WvW dailies don’t push those players to do anything they wouldn’t normally do.

2) Most of the PvE dailies that do push players to do things they wouldn’t normally do are just pushing pointless nonsense timewaster activities rather than experiencing other types of PvE game play. Viewing a low level vista, gathering lumber in a zone, etc. aren’t like “complete a fractal”, “complete a dungeon path”, “defeat a world boss”, “complete X in dry top”, “complete X in the silverwastes” etc. that would actually push players to try new PvE stuff.

The only way “the dailies are supposed to push players to try/play different things” works is if you really just mean pushing only PvE players to try PvP/WvW to avoid intentionally crappy PvE options.

Anyandrell.6238:

As much as I don’t like to have a “double fractal” in the dailies, I can say one thing about the “regular” fractal.

Every time it was in the dailies, I just did a PUG, advertised in LFG saying “lvl 1 for dailies, new to Fractals welcome”. I had the party filled within seconds. Only one time one person dropped before going through the full set of 4, because they had some RL stuff they had to attend to. For the rest, everybody stayed on and we did finish the round of 4 fairly fast, even with newbies to the fractals world, even with people who otherwise hate fractals.

Why? Because I didn’t mind it NOT being a speed run. I saw it as an opportunity to have fun. I explained what was going on, what was supposed to be done, everybody in the party had a great time, and now every time there’s a fractal daily, I have people who were in my “party for fractal newbies” whispering me about going again.

Try to do that. It’s worth it.

As for the map-specific events, I will refrain from commenting on it as I might get another forum suspension, lol

I love this, and I’ll look for these groups next time I fractal daily comes around.

Thaddeus.4891:

Behellagh.1468:

Problem with fractals is the teaming requirement. Dungeons are also PvE and we don’t get them as PvE dailies so why is it okay with Fractals?.

GW2 is a MMO right? I think that the first M stand for Multiplayer right? Just checking.

Yes, but it is Massively Multiplayer, which is why 5 man groups really ought to join a zerg….

noteru.3284:

1. Should i keep these tomes of knowledge for higher levels or should i use them now as 22 level elementalist. I currently have 3 of tomes.

Do you think you will ever want a second character? Personally, I don’t see a great benefit to speed leveling a first character since everything is new and you can learn strategy, damage mitigation, dodging, healing, weapon skills, explore new maps, PvP, WvW, etc along the way, and there isn’t some magic part of the game where everyone is that you don’t get to see until 80.

It won’t hurt anything either way, but if you ever make a second character you might wish you had saved them to to skip past stuff you’ve already done on your first character and get right to farming a new set of level 80 gear and weapons.

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

mtpelion.4562:

The point of dailies is to incentivize you to do things you would not otherwise do. The old dailies failed miserably at doing that since they were basically automatic, that’s why they were changed.

Since there were a number of different versions of dailies since launch, and considering the way the last system worked, can anyone link a statement by Anet on the above point? I’ve seen this assertion made many times by players, but never by Anet.

The new ones fail miserably at that too, unless by that they really mean incentivising PvE players to avoid the PvE dailies in favor of the PvP or WvW ones unless they want to get stuck running around doing stupid crap there is no reason to do or jump through hoops designed to make the PvE dailies unnecessarily inconvenient.

How do the PvP dailies focus on getting PvP players to do things they would not otherwise do? Capture a point, defend a point, earn 50 rank, earn a track reward, and kill 3 players are all things that happen naturally and almost unavoidably just from playing PvP. The only thing that would require you to ever even think about the PvP dailies are the “Win a match as a profession” ones. Basically, the PvP dailies are pretty much how the old PvE dailies were.

The WvW ones are a little more varied, which makes sense given that the WvW maps are a bit more varied, but still just the normal stuff you’d do anyway just following a normal zerg.

On the PvE side, what possible reason is there to incentivize level 80s to zerg events on a specific map, collect a specific resource on a specific map, or view a vista on a specific map? I can see an incentive to try a fractal, but how can you justify limiting it to levels that need ascended gear with agony resistance? Exotic crafter? A specific boss on a two hour schedule? How is there anything even remotely similar to this in the PvP or WvW dailies?

Personally, I can’t help but get the impression that the PvE dailies were intentionally designed to push people to fractals, the PvP dailies, or the WvW dailies, rather than to provide PvE options of a similar nature.

Belzebu.3912:

DavidH.7380:

Belzebu.3912:

words

Well, kinda. The PvP ones are often easier to do than the PvE ones, but then you feel like a sellout that is sending the message that pushing people toward PvP is okay and/or that you actually enjoy it.

Maybe they should add a “PvPing under duress” flag that could be set to clearly indicate you hare having no fun, hate doing it, and hate Anet for pushing you to do it, but suffering through it only for the rewards?

I wrote that because OP is saying that he can’t complete his dailies, and I pointed how even not liking PvP at all you can do most of them.

Also there are the practice mode in pvp where players doesn’t expect anything from each other, there are even some custom arenas made specifically for dailies, this is pretty much the “PvPing under duress” flag haha.

I used to not enjoy pvp at all, then I started to do it just for the dailies and now I end playing in pvp pretty much 50% of the time I’m in game, so encourage people to at least try pvp is always a good thing.

I’m not quite there. Having tried the PvP dailies out of frustration with the PvE ones, the daily custom arenas make it ridiculously easy, and I get showered with tomes, crafting mats, etc. at the same time. I usually get all 3 dailies completed in a single round.

Then I get batted around like a rag doll by a pair of LB rangers, think that looks fun and start flirting with the idea of taking my parked 80 ranger and setting it up for PvP since I’m not doing anything else with it, and realize I’m getting dangerously close to actually considering trying to PvP! Someday I may actually try it…

I can answer some of that for you.

1. Minis are just for show/fun/vanity.

2. Not that I am aware of, though you can try the Looking for forum in the Community Corner section. Chat in Lions Arch will often have guild recruitment messages, you can ask in chat in Lions Arch or any other major city, etc. Shouldn’t be hard to find a home if people know you are interested.

3. Don’t play Ele so I’ll leave that for others.

4. Kind of. As far as I know, magic find applies to a specific character while luck applies to all characters on the account.

5. No potions that I know of, though Elementalists may have other healing skills or traits I don’t know about since I don’t play one.

While I understand the desire to do so, my experience has been that leveling crafting to make your own gear is a guaranteed way to stay poor for a very long time on your first character.

Crafting shines at higher levels where there are “once per day” material refinements and very expensive gear that can only be self-crafted. For almost everything else, you either lose money every time you make something or just break even compared to selling the raw materials and buying what you wanted.

My advice? Get your first set of gear from dungeons, world bosses, the orr temple vendors, the silverwastes, world vs world badges, laurels, etc. Sell everything you don’t use for gold and buy whatever you still need to get. Selling 4-5 miscellaneous yellow rares on the TP will get you a gold. 4 to 8 gold will buy you most basic exotics. Once you are fully geared up in exotics, then start plowing money into leveling crafting so you can make ascended gear and also exotics for any future characters you make.

Ojimaru.8970:

If you really want to gear for “survivability”, then I’d always recommend prioritising Toughness over Vitality any day. Higher Toughness increases the efficiency of your heals (active and passive), whereas Vitality only increases your health pool marginally.

Also, if you’re still unsure about armour sets, remember that you can always give each stat combination a try by buying Masterwork or Rare qualities before investing into Exotics.

Good point. Knight → Berserker seems to be the armor path for the warrior, which seems like the one I’ll probably try first.

Belzebu.3912:

Refuse to do pvp dailies is some code of honor or something?

I don’t understand why so many players refuse to do it, those are incredible easy:
Daily PvP Capture: go to an empty arena and walk to a point to capture, there done.
Daily PvP Rank Points: enter an unranked match, you can just walk forward and press 1 if you want, in the end after your team lost you’ll get 500 rank points, you just need 50 for the achieve.
Daily PvP Reward Earner: do the previous one until you get a reward, I think if you do 0 points in every match you will complete this in 2~3 matches.

Resuming, you can be almost a vegetable and sill do the PvP dailies, and at least 1 of those dailies will be available every day.

Well, kinda. The PvP ones are often easier to do than the PvE ones, but then you feel like a sellout that is sending the message that pushing people toward PvP is okay and/or that you actually enjoy it.

Maybe they should add a “PvPing under duress” flag that could be set to clearly indicate you hare having no fun, hate doing it, and hate Anet for pushing you to do it, but suffering through it only for the rewards?

aerial.7021:

DavidH.7380:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

Wasn’t that generally considered to be the whole point of ascended? Give the people who really wanted one a long, slow, stat based grind through ascended, AR, and fractals to chase, while making the payoff at the end minor enough for everyone who doesn’t want the grind to shrug their shoulders and ignore the hamster wheel?

I dare you, I double dare you, show me a forum page where these people are that wanted this, and almost guarantee you, you won’t find it.

(disclaimer: must be a significant amount of the population to require an addition of said ascended armor)

As the punctuation indicates, it was a question, not a statement. The ascended stuff all happened before my time, and that is the argument I’ve seen most often provided to defend it, which is why I asked the question.

I think it probably made more sense when people were “discovering” the discoveries while “learning” to crafting items.

We’ve forgotten the whole learning aspect of, “Okay, so if you combine a small handle, a mace head, and an insignia to make a mace, then I bet if I put a hilt, a blade, and an insignia together I could make a sword.” Building smaller components and then assembling them in patterns probably made more discoveries possible and made discovering the logic behind the patterns easier.

Now we just follow some crafting guide that says, “Make 84 steel ingots, 23 wooden planks, 4 small hilts, 3 large shafts, etc.”

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It is a shame it’s the only reliable way to acquire yourself some Ascended armor and weapons. Understandable to me, but a shame, because it’s just not interesting enough to want to do. I’ll say outright what a lot of people here want me to say: It’s a grind. A very slow, somewhat expensive grind with a very arguably unnecessary payoff at the end.

Wasn’t that generally considered to be the whole point of ascended? Give the people who really wanted one a long, slow, stat based grind through ascended, AR, and fractals to chase, while making the payoff at the end minor enough for everyone who doesn’t want the grind to shrug their shoulders and ignore the hamster wheel?

PistolWhip.2697:

You make a mistake here, as I am not advocating the addition of something due to personal want, but more so due to the foreseeable benefits of the community as a whole ingame, upon which I have openly asked and been searching for a mechanical nonbiased reason as to why such an arena should not be included. So far every reply comes to “I don’t want it” or “Isn’t whats already in, enough?”

So where you bring personal opinion and pretend its okay to stifle what is a good chance would benefit the whole community and help PvP become far more accessible for those too intimidated, I bring facts and mechanical discussions on the possible pro’s and cons.

I hope this clarifies the inexplicable confusion you seem to be labouring under, that your personal opinion based arguments and my objectively measured ones are even near the same spectrum.

I wish you the best with your sensitivity to other’s perceived afflictions. o/

Gosh, its almost like some players believe PvP is good and a benefit that should be grown to improve the game for the majority, while other players believe PvP is bad and a toxic liability that should be kept isolated and quarantined to prevent it from further polluting the game for the majority.

Honestly, I think a lot of the problem is that whenever any kind of PvP mode exists, Anet tries to incentivize people to play it. The surest way to guarantee that no incentives like POIs required for map completion, daily tasks, holiday events, etc. get tied to new PvP options is to not have any new PvP options added in the first place.

Obtena.7952:

Then truly, Devata’s problem isn’t one that GW2 can solve, at least not to his significant satisfaction. This game is established with a population that plays because of those mechanics, not in spite of them.

That is why I commented earlier that the RNG thread had some interesting ideas that might mesh well with his. Tokens and gold currently give players a way to measure partial progress and serve to make things suitably challenging to obtain without subjecting players to the frustration of RNG whimsy.

IMHO, doing this without either making things trivially easy to obtain or returning to traditional grinds requires a smarter RNG system that isn’t purely random.

Okay, I’ve been doing a fair bit of reading and researching looking for options that balance damage, survival, and simplicity to play. I think I may have found base templates suitable to copy or modify for both the warrior and guardian. Most recommendations seem to lean in favor staying with berzerker stats for weapons and accessories and using knights armor and/or runes to buff up toughness and vitality as needed.

Pure Greatsword Warrior
“The rotations in this build are pretty simple: Hundred Blades -> Rush (if it is off cooldown) -> Whirlwind Attack -> autoattack chain until Hundred Blades is back up. Interrupting Hundred Blades is a large DPS loss, so use your judgement and don’t start a Hundred Blades when you anticipate needing to dodge half a second after.”

Solo/DPS: Same as the Standard Build, but takes 2 points in Arms instead of picking up Empower Allies.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNBhYDbkpjKP77w2DORD8DImDMox5Rr2kqJA-TxRBABXt/o8DPdDacEAA4iAk3DAgS1fMTJooAiI-e

Pure Hammer Guardan
Based off the Fractal Hammer guardian build. “Try not to interrupt the auto attack chain. The whole point of this build is the symbol from the 3rd hit of hammer autoattack. Using other weapon abilities will result in a dps loss, so use them only for their utility effects. When appropriately traited, staying on hammer isn’t abysmal DPS. With Writ of Persistence Writ of Persistence , using only hammer auto attack is about 90-97% of the DPS of a proper GreatswordS+Hammer rotation with the same build.”

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Fractal_Hammer

I don’t know if knights armor with soldier runes or runes of the trooper would add enough vitality to make this work or not, but it seems like the most promising dungeon guardian build variant for what I need.

Obtena.7952:

OK, but like I said, Anet’s intent isn’t to have many different things fall on us like rain; so whatever you are proposing to HOW you get stuff, it’s not going to be ‘less things’ than we have to do now to get loot which doesn’t change the level of ‘grind’ people are complaining about having to do. Frankly, other than the conceptual difference between getting gold and getting ‘stuff’, you’re not actually proposing anything different than what already exists in the game; we already have choice to doing content that still leads to the reward standard of gold.

Really your hang up here isn’t grind or even how we get stuff, it’s the types of reward we get. Simply not the same thing. Direct rewards is not a solution for grinding, Removing grinding doesn’t lead to direct rewards.

Pretty much, yes.

Devata’s main problem is how much stuff is either a sellable rare drop from a large part of the world or vendor purchased with tokens. That pushes players toward farming for tokens or gold to exchange for the items rather than farming the items directly from an activity, area, or type of mob. For him, farming tokens and gold, which generally doesn’t meet Anet’s definition of grind, feels more grindy than farming specific mobs directly for drops, which generally does meet Anet’s definition of a grind. Thus, to him, the implementation of Anet’s “no grind philosophy” feels like an even worse “meta grind” of endlessly farming gold or tokens for purchases.

Azrael.4960:

Warriors are very forgiving because of two things. A big HP pool and healing signet. Although the other healing skills offer better burst heals, the constant tick of heals from healsig make it the heal skill of choice for sustained fighting.

Warriors are very good all rounders, your “jack of all trades” as it were.
If you want to start out in a more support oriented role, you can go with shout / cleanse, which involves investment into the Tactics line.

What I really want is to not end up dead on the floor 1/3 of the way through every fight because I missed a dodge, and then I was watching to see when my healing skill would come off cooldown, so I didn’t see the tell for the next big attack in time to realize I needed to swap weapons and use skill #4 to mitigate it.

Something along the lines of “autoattack, move out of red circles, monitor health & use #6 when low, watch the boss for tells and either dodge or use #4 to mitigate, use #2 when it comes off cooldown, and finally use #9 in an emergency if you get in trouble” is more my speed, but I have real trouble finding information and advice that doesn’t assume you are way past that point skill wise and much more actively in control of all your options. Obviously I would add more skills to my repertoire once that became more instinctive and less demanding to keep up with, but starting as simple as possible and staying alive is the first step.

Devata.6589:

DavidH.7380:

In fairness, I think there is a bit of a point in those arguments that you are dismissing a little too readily. There is “necessary to see/play all the content/story in the game” grind, and that does make a fair bit of difference in how optional it is, though not in any way that is related to your personal issues with grind.

The problem is that it’s a personal preference. That is only important ‘if’ you want to do that. Many people here trying to downplay the grind also say.. You only need to do it ‘if’ you want those cosmetics. Well those so called ‘necessary things’ you only need to do / get if you want to do that content.

From a players ‘fun’ perspective it’s exactly the same. As much as some people hate it to get locked out of some content, so much other people hate it that working towards cosmetics can only done by grinding. And then there is of course the question of content. Is hunting down items not content? Is playing with looks of your character not content?

It is, but sometimes it looks like you are getting drug into fighting an argument that isn’t really yours. Grind arguments are often associated with Ascended gear and legendaries and such, and those are often defended with the not needed argument, and those prior debates are bound to bleed over into any thread titled “no-grind philosophy”. But that isn’t your battle, so rather than trying to argue against it I thought it might be easier to just acknowledge the merits of the argument in general and then go around it as not relevant to you , personally, and your specific proposals.

Devata.6589:

DavidH.7380:

I’ll grant you there is a fair bit of that, but can you meet me part way too? What if there were cool minis and skins that were exactly the way you describe, but also enough minis and skins collections that were obtainable by completing content and or reasonable amounts of farming that you could keep yourself entertained hunting down those. Would that be an acceptable trade-off?

That was already a part of how I explained I would design the reward system. I talked about that multiple times in this thread. Here is a full explanation (same is also placed in this thread but could not find it so the link is to another thread). https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/RNG-as-a-concept-Discuss/page/18#post4758907 so that is not someting I ever said I would be against. Some farming is fine as long as it’s a doable farm and it’s a mix of things instead of basically only have the grind option available.

Yeah, sorry to make you reiterate that. I knew that, but sometimes what I post in response to you is really more trying to direct conversation in the direction of what I think you are really trying to talk about instead of all the side arguments.

Devata.6589:

DavidH.7380:

If it was clear to people that you aren’t trying to argue that grind should be eliminated, but rather that you want so see added ways to obtain stuff directly from existing content, then you might find people less inclined to instinctively oppose your ideas. I find people tend to be fairly accommodating of other play styles as long as they don’t see the requests as damaging to other’s play and rewards.

I also made clear multiple times that grinding would still be an option for most rewards out there. I think that most of those trying to defend Anet here or try to downplay the grind complain many people have simply feel there baby is getting spoken badly of so will defend it.

Well, again, it seems a lot of historical “grind battles” get pulled into your thread and ascribed to you as guilty by association with the “anti-grind” crowd. This was more of a, “hey, look, if we put down the pitchforks and axe handles and try to find out where we agree, I think Devata is actually fine with the grinds that are being defended as long as he has non-grind stuff too.” statement.

Underneath it all, I don’t think you are really even anti-grind in general. It seems you mostly just want to have a decent amount of collectible cosmetic rewards to chase that are directly obtainable from clearly defined activities (without intermediary currencies), most of which have a small associated grind, while some have a moderate grind and a few even have a large grind. That doesn’t seem unreasonable, it wouldn’t necessarily require eliminating any of the existing gold and currency grinds, and the non-cosmetic grinds like ascended and legendary and such you don’t care about at all, so it seems like there is an awful lot of unnecessary argument going on over things you aren’t even proposing.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the warrior as an option. When I research I see lots of references to warriors having great passive survivability while guardians require active defence, but then I see lots of references to warriors swapping weapons, using shouts, dropping banners, etc which make me wonder if there might be a lot more total skill juggling on the warrior making it easier to just learn defense on the guardian.

This seems to be referenced frequently as a good warrior starter setup.
http://intothemists.com/guides/2609-dps_dungeon_build_for_new_lvl_80_warriors_training_wheel_guide_before_you_go_full_zerker

Slalom.3174:

look at these two options:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_GS_Sword/Focus
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Fractal_Hammer

Good luck!

Looking over those two, Fractal Hammer seems more doable given the following excerpts:

→ Try not to interrupt the auto attack chain of both weapons unless necessary. Interrupting the auto attack chain will result in a dps loss. The whole point of this build is the symbol from the 3rd hit of hammer autoattack.

→ Using other weapon abilities will result in a dps loss, use them only for their utility effects.

→ When appropriately traited, staying on hammer isn’t abysmal DPS. With Writ of Persistence Writ of Persistence , using only hammer auto attack is about 90-97% of the DPS of a proper GreatswordS+Hammer rotation with the same build.

Unless I’m misreading this, it sounds like falling back on traited Hammer autoattack for damage and concentrating mostly on damage mitigation for my active skill usage might be a viable learning strategy with this build.

Okay, I went searching for Guardian beginner dungeon information and found some stuff on dulfy that might be worth looking at in addition to what I assume would be Greatsword / Scepter Focus.

Greatsword/Sword Focus
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8dlsApQotCxXI8DRR8Ql7Y8iW/BtwGUVAgDA-ThRBABXt/o8DPdP5dRAA4JFQp6PmpEUQAlD-e

A variation of the core build for players that need some extra vigor to help with dodging. You still have access to instant condition removal and longer Consecrations. It’s suited for players that are still learning dodging, boss animations and are playing a lot of Fractals, Arah or other dungeons they don’t have enough experience with.

In Radiance we add another point to get Right-Hand Strength (XI). This will increase the crit-chance with one-handed weapons by 15%. It will not increase your crit-chance in the Hero’s Panel, it only affects one-handed weapons attacks.

In Honor we add one point just to get the Vigorous Precision trait – gain 5 seconds of Vigor (6,25sec with 5 points in Virtues) whenever you deliver a critical hit (with a 10 second cooldown).

Hammer/Greatsword
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJASRlsApQotCxXI8DRR8gk1Yb/8quAY+cLA-ThRBABXt/o8DPdN5dJAA4JFQp6PmpEUQAlD-e

This build is targeted at less experienced Guardian players or those who don’t really want to work hard to get smooth runs. This build sacrificed DPS for the utility of the hammer.

In Zeal we add one point to get Symbolic Exposure to get Vulnerability on symbols. The hammer offers permanent Symbol of Protection so this is one of the traits you want to have if your party is not stacking a lot of Vulnerability.

In Radiance we keep Blind Exposure (VI) as we are still using a greatsword rotation. However, we change Powerful Blades (X) to Radiant Fire (VII). This change is made because we do not gain anything from increasing Sword/Spear damage and there is really nothing else to take. We increase burning duration to keep our Radiant Power and Fiery Wrath (zeal II) damage modifiers up as the hammer autoattack is much slower.

In Honor we add 4 points. If we take the hammer for protection, let’s make most of it – if you don’t want protection just go back to a greatsword/sword focus build. Take Superior Aria (II) to lower the cooldown on Shouts and Writ of Persistence (VII) to permanently maintain Protection from Symbol of Protection – the last attack in the hammer autoattack chain. It is important to remember that if you play with hammer you really want to keep autoattacking and, if you need to use other skills, finish your autoattack chain first.

In Virtues we keep the 2 points in case you want to take Master of Consecrations (VI) or Unscathed Contender (I).

Do either of these look like a good starting point for learning? Also, I understand that Warriors have a larger base health pool. I assume the tradeoff is that it is harder to defend the larger health pool on a Warrior than it is to protect the smaller health pool on a Guardian?

Ayrilana.1396:

Do you have all four pieces or just the one labeled 4/4?

Oh, I see what you are getting at. There isn’t a 4 on the top right corner of the inventory slot, so that isn’t a stack of 4 map pieces. That is one map piece, and it is piece #4 out of 4 total pieces. Makes sense.

Raptorcheese.7053:

Or do I have to dance around a dragon shrine with a sombrero and a ley line stone to make it work?

Obviously you’re new to the game. Everyone knows sombreros are only for Tuesdays. Today is Monday, so you should be wearing an eyepatch instead.

sorudo.9054:

3. after a sure amount of times X item not dropping, the drop is guaranteed for the next Y amount.

to explain this, precursors are extremely rare so they could drop 1:1.000.000 exotics, when it still doesn’t drop within the lines, it will drop within the next 500 exotic drops.
something more simple like a black lion key could have a drop scale of 1:40.000 black lion chests, if it still doesn’t drop within the lines it will drop within the next 50 black lion chests.

so in the end, the rarity is still there but after a while the game will take over the drop rate to a much more aggressive degree.

disclaimer: all drop rate examples are not a suggestion, it’s only to point out how the system works

Yeah, I thought a declining odds system would be neat. If the odds start at 1:1000 then each time you do something that COULD drop the item but doesn’t, they subtract one from your odds for the next roll. Next loot is 1:999 chance, then 1:998 chance, then 1:997 etc. Once you get a drop the odds reset back to the original 1:1000 and start declining again until you get the next one.

That way the system retains the RNG characteristics of the possibility for lucky drops and the anticipation of not knowing exactly which time will be the one that gives you your drop, but at the same time it becomes more deterministic the longer you go without winning the RNG game. After 995 “losses” to the RNG, your odds would be up to 1:5, 1:4, 1:3, 1:2, and finally 1:1 making 1,000 attempts the absolute worst case scenario for event the most horribly RNG cursed player.

Kinda a hybrid where RNG rules at first but then moves steadily toward a deterministic guarantee near the end.

Okay, so, a regular read one of my posts where I said that I had never run any dungeons because I don’t want to drag down a group carrying me while I learn everything from scratch. They whispered me in game and offered to walk me through AC and tutor me in the basics as they had done most of the game and found they really enjoyed helping other players.

I really appreciate this offer, but I am uncertain as to what to do to prepare, so I’m asking for some really basic preparation advice from this forum. Here is what I have to work with: I have a Warrior, Guardian, and Ranger all at level 80, but most have only been played through the leveling process and then very little one they hit 80. The gear and traits are mostly mishmash of whatever stuff seemed useful for leveling at the time, though I do have a full set of Soldier’s Armageddon exotic heavy armor and accessories for the Warrior or Guardian.

The biggest problem is me. I’m in my 40s, somewhat of an introvert, prone to tunnel vision/focus, and poor enough at reaction time gaming that I’ve almost never finished a console style game except for a couple on the lowest difficulty setting. Since I can’t do what I did before (plate armored tank healbot) I’ve mostly avoided dealing with preparing to group in this game, but now I want to figure out where to start.

I think I need to decide if I am going to focus on the Warrior or the Guardian, pick an appropriate build and weapon set, and learn the associated major skills for dealing damage, mitigating damage, and providing support in a group setting. However, I have no idea what profession/weapon combination will be the best for me to learn. I need to be able to stay alive, and I’m pretty sure focusing on learning to do a small number of things reliably is more likely to work that trying to learn to choose between a lot of options or juggle skills while also trying to watch cooldowns, boss tells, red circles, and time dodges.

Any suggestions on where to start?

Be warned, the process is VERY long and expensive.

The list of all the components needed can be found here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Juggernaut

Highlights include 100% world completion, level 400+ Jewelcrafing, level 400+ Weaponsmithing, 120+ gold, WvW rank 14+, tons of rare mats, lots of various tokens, and a very rare precursor weapon named The Colossus.

http://www.gw2-craftchart.com might be helpful. As I understand it, the site helps you track the requirement to craft a particular legendary and your progress toward obtaining them.

Vayne.8563:

DavidH.7380:

Vayne.8563:

The issue is it will take people out of the dungeon running pool and it will be harder to find groups. That’s the issue.

Some people are forced out if their comfort zones to do dungeons. Take all those people out of the equation and there’ll be less people running dungeons the “old” way.

I wonder what percentage of that group does dungeons outside their comfort zone and what percentage just avoids them and finds something else to do.

I don’t know if I’m the exception or the norm for that group, but I have a warrior, guardian, and ranger at 80 and still haven’t done a dungeon, even though I like the content, specifically because of the need to group.

But the dungeon content in this game, in many ways is DESIGNED around a group.

There’s a destroyer boss in COE in the middle of a platform. There are three lasers that target this boss and platforms leading down to him. The challenge is to coordinate all three people to use the lasers and then have everyone converge on the boss after taking down his shield. That shield comes back too, so you have to get back up before the shield comes back up and dodge dropping dragon teeth in order to progress.

You make those solo, you’ve destroyed the soul of that encounter. You may get your solo dungeon eventually. But you’ll never experience that content the way it was meant to be experienced.

That’s why what I really wish for is a solo “learning” mode, where you can learn what to do for each boss, where to go, try out a new class, explore, etc, without being totally useless to a group due to having absolutely no clue what to do, and no experience actively using my skills in a dungeon type encounter. Ideally you’d gain the confidence to join in with a group for the full experience and full rewards.

Vayne.8563:

The issue is it will take people out of the dungeon running pool and it will be harder to find groups. That’s the issue.

Some people are forced out if their comfort zones to do dungeons. Take all those people out of the equation and there’ll be less people running dungeons the “old” way.

I wonder what percentage of that group does dungeons outside their comfort zone and what percentage just avoids them and finds something else to do.

I don’t know if I’m the exception or the norm for that group, but I have a warrior, guardian, and ranger at 80 and still haven’t done a dungeon, even though I like the content, specifically because of the need to group.

Lazaar.9123:

It’s a good thing open world PvP will actually never happen. Thread is hypothetical.

You’ve gotta admit, it would be one heck of an April Fools prank. RaceWars 2: Open world PvP, everyone not of your race is hostile to you, turning Tyria into a giant gankfest for one day!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

DavidH.7380:

I think it is fair for everyone to want to have stuff that is achievable at their level/skill/dedication/style, but also means having to accept that most people aren’t going to be able to get everything that exists to be obtained, or even close to it. From what you’ve said before, I think that is a reality you acknowledge as well, but that tends to get overlooked as people argue about one side or another as if they aren’t all necessary to keep as many players as possible happy and playing.

If it was clear to people that you aren’t trying to argue that grind should be eliminated, but rather that you want so see added ways to obtain stuff directly from existing content, then you might find people less inclined to instinctively oppose your ideas. I find people tend to be fairly accommodating of other play styles as long as they don’t see the requests as damaging to other’s play and rewards.

My problem is how the argument continues to ignore fine details like, oh, facts . . . in favor of whipping up an anti-grind sentiment. I find it noble to aspire to that ideal of a game with no grind, but I find it . . . a little misguided to think it is possible to actually think it plausible on a broad scale like an MMO. Even Minecraft is grindy.

I agree, which is why I’m slowly trying to shift the conversation a bit. I don’t think it is possible to get anywhere unless we can all acknowledge that grind is fundamental at this point in game design history, we aren’t getting rid of it anytime soon, so the hope isn’t getting rid of grind but finding a way to coexist with it. Of course, fundamental to coexisting with it is accepting that we can’t have it all. Only when we can talk about having non-grindy rewards tracks that are designed for non-grinders that are good enough to be rewarding, while accepting there will still be stuff for grinders that we can’t get without doing the grinding, do we even have a chance of starting a conversation that isn’t all about arguing.

In fairness to Devata, that isn’t his only, or maybe even his primary issue. When he talks about what he really wants, it seems his biggest issue is that he finds hunting down, directly obtaining, and collecting rewards to be the main thing he enjoys. Things like ice elementals having a chance to drop an ice elemental mini, earth elementals dropping earth elemental minis, and a collection for obtaining all elemental minis. This is typically considered a farm, but with a low enough drop rate it comes dangerously close to the precise definition of grind that Colin gave, and the RNG can be frustrating, so the game typically makes stuff less directly farmable but allows it to be purchased with gold or tokens. That fixes the problem of people complaining that they’ve killed 10,000 ice elementals and never gotten a mini, but it causes a new problem for people like Devata who can’t practically farm the drop directly and for whom farming tokens or gold and buying the item negates all the fun of getting it.

Of course, getting out of the “whaaa! grind!” and “do the work or do without!” cycle would be the first step to getting anywhere, so I was trying to see if I could prod things past the grind issue and on to more of a, “yeah, there is grind, but lets talk about if there is enough other stuff you can find something to do and enjoy anyway” direction.

As I understand it (and I’m no expert) there are two issues. One is that active play (moving, dodging, reflecting, blinding, aegis, etc) at the right time can mitigate enough damage that survival attributes on gear aren’t necessary if you play well, those attributes take the place of damage attributes that get the fight over faster, and the longer the fight takes the more likely even good players will make a mistake. Therefore, many groups want only offensive stat (berzerker) characters with good active play skills to burn through content as fast as possible.

The other issue seems to be that while healing, armor, toughness, vitality, etc, are often very useful in WvW and PvP, when dealing with PvE bosses a lot of mistakes will result in instant death regardless of how much of those stats you have stacked. Since you can’t out gear those attacks no matter what you do, you have to learn how to mitigate them with active play, and if you have to learn to mitigate those then a lot of players find themselves improving to the point they don’t need the defensive stats and they join the berzerkers fully or part way anyway.

I made this for someone else in the Players Helping Players forum earlier today:

Below is a list with the level range, world region, and zone name. One zone usually won’t get you through the entire level range, so you will need to travel and do a little exploring. Every starter zone is connected to a racial city, and every racial city has an Asura gate that connects it to the world hub city, Lions Arch. Travel back to your starter area, go to your race’s home city, take the Asura gate to Lion’s arch, use the Asura gates in Lions Arch to travel to one of the other racial cities, and then travel to a new and level appropriate zone. Once you’ve traveled to the other cities and explored their zones, you can travel directly to anywhere you have already been via waypoints.

Lions Arch (World Hub)
—> Black Citadel in Ascalon (Charr)
—> Divinity’s Reach in Kryta (Human)
—> Hoelbrak in Shiverpeak Mountains (Norn)
—> Rata Sum in Maguuma Jungle (Asura)
—> The Grove in Maguuma Jungle (Sylvari)

01-15 Ascalon – Plains of Ashford
01-15 Maguuma Jungle – Caledon Forest
01-15 Maguuma Jungle – Metrica Province
01-15 Shiverpeak Mountains – Wayfarer Foothills
01-15 Kryta – Queensdale
15-25 Ascalon – Diessa Plateau
15-25 Kryta – Kessex Hills
15-25 Maguuma Jungle – Brisban Wildlands
15-25 Shiverpeaks Mountains – Snowden Drifts
25-35 Kryta – Gendarran Fields
25-40 Shiverpeak Mountains – Lornar’s Pass
30-40 Ascalon – Fields of Ruin
35-45 Kryta – Harathi Hinterlands
40-50 Ascalon – Blazeridge Steppes
40-50 Shiverpeak Mountains – Dredgehaunt Cliffs
kitten Kryta – Bloodtide Coast
50-60 Ascalon – Iron Marches
50-60 Shiverpeak Mountains – Timberline Falls
55-65 Maguuma Jungle – Sparkfly Fen
60-70 Ascalon – Fireheart Rise
60-70 Maguuma Jungle – Mount Maelstrom
70-75 Ruins of Orr – Straits of Devastation
70-80 Shiverpeak Mountains – Frostgorge Sound
75-80 Ruins of Orr – Malchor’s Leap
80-80 Ruins of Orr – Cursed Shore
80-80 Sea of Sorrows – Southsun Cove

Devata.6589:

Oow really, can you finally stop with all the necessary crap. NOTHING is necessary. If we were to take that seriously the whole subject of grind did not exist in any game as nothing is necessary.

In fairness, I think there is a bit of a point in those arguments that you are dismissing a little too readily. There is “necessary to see/play all the content/story in the game” grind, and that does make a fair bit of difference in how optional it is, though not in any way that is related to your personal issues with grind.

Leveling is one of those grinds in the game. If you wish to see and play the Orr storyline, you have to level to 80 or darn close to it if you don’t want to settle for watching it on Youtube. And unless you are darn good, I suggest you obtain some decent masterwork gear, if not rare gear, as well. This is the kind of thing people are talking about when they say “it isn’t necessary” to have ascended. Everything in the game is playable in exotics, to you don’t need ascended to see/play the story/content in the same way that you need to level for example. Coming from other games that is a fairly common issue, and there are plenty of storyline endings I never saw because I didn’t grind the gear tiers far enough to be able to play them.

Devata.6589:

I will make a example for you step by step to show you how people run into this grind wall you don’t seem to see.

1. I see a guy with a cool looking weapon. I ask him what weapon it is and he tells me it’s the Chaos Sword.

2. I want to go on my way to ‘hunt’ for the sword. That is the way I like to play. Turns out, there is no in-game way for me to earn the thing, just buying it from the TP with gold.

3. Oke so if that part of how I like to play the game does not exist then lets not grind for it but earn it by doing the other stuff I do like to do in GW2. Guild-missions (3 gold a week), WvW (more of a defender but I do also run wit the zerg so lets say 5 gold a week), JP’s 1,5 gold a week (not like I keep doing them all over and over again, just a few for some fun)).

4. The cost for that skin is 245 gold so with 9,5 gold I would only need to ’play the way I want for 25,7 weeks. Of course there are also some more active weeks so lets be extremely generous and make it 10 weeks. (I personally would never earn that money in 10 weeks but I want to be generous here for your standpoint)

5. 3 weeks later I see another guy.. oow he has a nice mini it’s the Mini Largos (go back to step 2 and add cost for the Mini Largos).

6. Come to the conclusion that the hunting down items like I want (my way of playing the game I want) is not really available (few exceptions), getting any of these items will only be doable by earning more gold by starting to grind for it or simply ignore the items.

“I play how I want to play, what I want to play, and when I want”. That is great. All the people who complain about the grind wished they could do the same but they feel to get what they like the only option is grind.

I’ll grant you there is a fair bit of that, but can you meet me part way too? What if there were cool minis and skins that were exactly the way you describe, but also enough minis and skins collections that were obtainable by completing content and or reasonable amounts of farming that you could keep yourself entertained hunting down those. Would that be an acceptable tradeoff?

I think it is fair for everyone to want to have stuff that is achievable at their level/skill/dedication/style, but also means having to accept that most people aren’t going to be able to get everything that exists to be obtained, or even close to it. From what you’ve said before, I think that is a reality you acknowledge as well, but that tends to get overlooked as people argue about one side or another as if they aren’t all necessary to keep as many players as possible happy and playing.

If it was clear to people that you aren’t trying to argue that grind should be eliminated, but rather that you want so see added ways to obtain stuff directly from existing content, then you might find people less inclined to instinctively oppose your ideas. I find people tend to be fairly accommodating of other play styles as long as they don’t see the requests as damaging to other’s play and rewards.

Lheimroo.2947:

Deadcell.9052:

I guess I was complaining and didn’t realize it LOL, the reason I felt this game is not that grindy is because I learned a long time ago that grinding in this game is a complete waste of time, I personally found I made no strides what so ever in what I wanted to achieve and no longer do it. All those vanity items like unique skins, ascended stuff, legendary’s etc I basically look at as unattainable and no longer waste my time trying for those things, I just log in, do what I enjoy, mostly WvW and PvP and log off, completely ignoring any and all things that would be considered grindy, I guess its been so long with that mindset I no longer look at Gw2 as a grindy game.

You know what, I can agree with this, you’re completely right.

The game, if you decide to achieve nothing within it, is not grindy.

But god help you if you decide to achieve anything; then it’s grindy as hell.

If Anet doesn’t have a giant red alarm going off at hearing that thought process I don’t know what would cause the giant red alarm to go off.

But isn’t that every MMO type game if you just switch that slightly to, “if you decide to achieve modestly within it” and “but got help you if you decide to try to get near the top/best of anything”? The top/best is always set to challenge the most dedicated and/or skilled and lower levels of achievement exist all the way down to just making the next level. The issue shouldn’t be about hitting or not hitting top achievements, since most people will never even come close, but about having good and fun levels of achievement and reward along the way that give everyone something fun and challenging to obtain that matches their own personal dedication, skill, and fun.

Maybe BLCs could be improved to contain more stuff worth buying keys for?

simplesimon.2084:

At least they give you 2 per character. They could of just had it been one.

Yeah, and I have three 80s already without using any of my tomes of knowledge, so it isn’t exactly a high barrier in the context of crafting a 3rd legendary.

I’m mostly asking because I only play an average of 30 min a day, and I’m realizing some of these choices may have really long term consequences, so I’m trying to make sure I understand those consequences before I do something stupid like blow all my mats leveling the wrong profession, run past WvW POIs while they are open, sacrifice a Gift of Exploration on an underwater weapon, etc.

Devata.6589:

Anyway the progress I see is that while at the beginning there was still a group that strongly stated there was no grind, that group is still defending Anet but now saying stuff like. The grind is in fact a good thing to keep people playing, and but it’s pretty easy grind so you can earn money fast. So in general more people seem to agree there is grind. The question how bad it is is still there but then again, that id of course also a personal thing.

To summarize, technically, there is very little grinding in line with the A’net definition, but there is lots and lots and lots of farming. And farming can be a good thing…

Unless, you are just endlessly farming gold on the most profitable activities, or farming for hundreds of hours to get an only moderately rare skin, or something similar, in which case farming can feel exactly like grinding, even if it technically isn’t according to the official game definition.

Insert pages of arguments about when/why/how farming turns into grinding by another name.

Okay, great. Then, if I wanted to craft a legendary greatsword and a legendary rifle I could do so with one character, but if I wanted to craft two legendary axes to dual wield and a legendary rifle then I would need to level a second character and obtain world completion with it in order to obtain more Gifts of Exploration, making legendary creation gated to no more than two per world completed character.

MARKONINI.4153:

Legendary: You don’t need max crafting levels, you only need level 400. You need 2 specific crafting professions for every legendary. You can find the list on this page in you scroll a bit down http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon

Ascended: Every piece is bound to a crafting profession of level 500. You can see what crafting profession makes what kind of gear here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting

Okay, so let me just be certain I understand.

If I only had one character and I wanted ascended heavy armor and a self crafted legendary greatsword, that character would have to be a weaponsmith and an armorsmith. Weaponsmith for the Gift of Light/Dark and armorsmith for the Gift of Metal for the legendary. Also Armorsmith for the ascended heavy armor. If I then decided I wanted an ascended rifle as well, I’d have to switch a profession to huntsman and level it to max before I could do that.

Correct?

Since leveling a crafting profession to 500 isn’t exactly a minor effort, I thought I should learn a bit more about how my profession choice may affect my ability to obtain ascended gear.

Here is what I think I know:

Ascended are always account bound, so the only way to obtain them is to loot or craft them yourself (or buy the accessories from a vendor)

Crafting ascended or legendaries requires a max level crafting skill.

Here is what I’m not sure I understand:

Does ascended and legendary crafting require a specific max level crafting skill or will any do? If I have, say, max level cooking, could I still craft an ascended or legendary greatsword, or would I need to have max level weaponsmithing specifically?