Guild Wars 2

Just ignore the SFR trolls on this thread and other Desolation recruitment threads. Their tactic is to aggravate people by doing personal attacks and spread half trues or plain lies. Luckily it is just few people, so I don’t know how well that represents the rest of the server.

To SFR, I can give you a good hint if you want to communicate:
Start by being more polite. Last time I had in game chat with an SFR player, it started with an insult. For comparison, the players from the French servers have been polite and behaving much more mature.

I have also seen /laugh emotes, several SFR guys standing inside their tower and sitting on ACs and me outside alone killing all the guards. I do not use any troll build, no stealth, no shadowstep, no mobility warrior, unlike almost all the SFR solo roamers who run with troll mesmer or thief builds.

It is true that SFR is not running at full force this week, but they certainly have much bigger numbers than 10 people outside prime time. They are also focusing on Desolation. And Desolation hasn’t been playing full force this week either. Zero queue to any of the 4 maps at prime time should tell something.

Now it is good time to join Desolation, just 1000 gems (till 30th of May). You will get rewards based on the server which you are associated with (= did most of the WvWvW action during the leagues).

PS. I think it would be best for the healthy future of this game to have more equal WvWvW servers, not just one badly behaving bully.

Desolation

- international (players from all continents besides Antartica, multi-lingual)
- good coverage, players on all time zones
- great community, server wide well-organized TeamSpeak and forums
- amazing PuG/militia commanders
- EU rank #2 (2nd in gold league)
- mostly mature players with great sense of humor
- transfer price is just 1000 gems (as long as the Spring season lasts, till 30th of May)

Just ask in map chat in WvWvW.

A lot of Desolation guilds are recruiting and we got also several non-English speaking guilds (Russian, Finnish, German and so on).

Grotesque.6480:

Deniara Devious.3948:

<snip>

Like almost every guild, which has left Desolation: they are just a weak shadow of what they used to be when they were in Desolation.

</snip>

We’ll see about that when I’ll beat the living kitten out of you.

Nonetheless, beautiful post as always Omphin, always loved yours especially the zombie apocalypse last year haha.

Relax mate. I wrote: “almost every guild”. ;-)

You know Desolation is more about fighting for the server and than for the pride of some individual guilds. I very much respect what you, Grostesque, and many other [vE] players and what you did for Desolation. I wish you good luck in the Silver.

Desolation definitely still needs more dedicated WvWvW players, guilds and commanders (especially those who are willing to lead PuGs in the EU morning, day time and afternoon hours). We are currently “enjoying” the outnumbered buff on SFR borderlands in prime time.

I am afraid the transfer prices will go up after 30th of May 2014. Desolation is a very high population server, thus we would normally be in the most expensive bracket. This is however mere speculation as Arenanet hasn’t announced post-Spring league transfer pricing.

The tournament period transfer costs are here:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/get-ready-for-wvw-spring-tournament-2014/

The current transfer cost to Desolation is just 1000 gems, because we were rank 8 at the start of the tournament. Nine weeks ago Desolation was EU rank 10, so we have been climbing up the ladder really fast.

I know there is a lot trash talk about Desolation being only a pve server, but look at the match results.

Desolation is now #2 in the gold league (both in points and rating). I think that is enough proof that we got a lively WvWvW community and good coverage.

Transfer cost to Desolation is just 1000 gems.

Grok.6714:

The Pirate Council has voted Deniara as our official server chronicler. She has invested so much time to study us and knows SFR’s struggles so well that this job fits her like a glove.

@ Deniara, please sign up on the SFR community page to be officially instated.
Don’t forget your resumee , transfer fee gems and also a printout of your five longest GW2 forum rants that do not contain straw man agruments, links to 3rd party statistic sites or mentions of sPvP in a WvW-related topic.

Again, congratulations.

Thanks for your “wonderful” offer, but I already have a well-paying full-time job + kids. And I plan to spend big part of my 2 months summer vacation traveling around the world, taking photos of amazing sights, normal people in the countryside and meet the most interesting people of this planet. Yes, this means much less GW2 for me, unless the hotels will offer fast-enough connection to play.

Your server seems to already have its fair share of fairy tale tellers. The latest you can find in these threads:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Best-EU-server-to-play-on-in-wvw/first
“Deso pve players from call to arms” <— Please explain me how you do a pve call in arms with the current megaserver system?
“And SFR never run when they see a Deso blob but Deso is always running …” <— LOL Yesterday evening in EBG we were chasing a fleeing SFR blob across half of the map and killed almost all of it

This thread has the best “gems” from SFR players:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/EU-Gold-League-Predicted-Rankings/page/5
“And Deniara guy is still talking bulkitten after 2 years in the game god he is like desolation version of Troma.”

Everybody knows I am just a small piece in the puzzle. Desolation has never had a grand alliance like Troma and Vizunah had. I even rarely nowadays pop my tag on me, because the real life work load is almost killing me. But some of the legendary commanders are back: Yesterday evening EBG had Moorta and leader of an ex-Deso guild commanding.

Desolation still needs more dedicated WvWvW players and commanders for the morning and day time.

More serious note: If you sorely lack players, please start your own recruitment thread, unless you want to be infracted on these posts.

I agree that the firearms line lacks synergy and some of the traits are a bit lackluster or should perhaps even be moved to some other tree. But I strongly disagree with many of the suggested changes.

These two traits would be too powerful as adept level traits:
III Juggernaut – moved to adept
IV Rifle Mod – moved to adept

Juggernaut gives +200 thoughness and very easy passive might stacking with flamethrower. With +20% boon/might duration, it would mean 6 stacks of might all the time.

Rifle mod gives +10% damage increase. That is a LOT for an adept level trait.

These two traits would be too weak as master level traits:
IX Rifled Barrel – moved to master
X Precise Sights – moved to master

Rifled barrels increases the range ONLY by 100-200 in most cases. It would be weak master level trait. Compare this with ranger eagle eyes master level trait, which gives 300 range increase and 5% additional damage. The real range is even greater. Ranger low bow #1 hits about 1800 range with this trait (tested).

Precise Sights gives 50% chance on critical hits to give 3 s vulnerability. Making it far weaker steel-packed powder (25 explosions trait).

The deadly mixture change doesn’t make sense.

Rexx.1805:

Dear Desolation players see the image below posted by a member of Blackgate on this Forum.

Now…do you still wanna cry about doubleteaming?

Actually if you look the statistics at http://gw2wvw.org/?region=2&tier=1
and http://gw2wvw.org/?region=1&tier=1 you can see that Desolation is getting double teamed much harder than Blackgate. Everything is relative, but TC and JQ look like nice neighbors compared to the Doubleteaming Fairies.

I can imagine the match up is boring for some of the Doubleteaming Rest players, but they have only themselves to blame. They selected this strategy.

I think many Desolation players got 1k+ kills this evening in few hours at EBG. And oh all that loot, Jade and SFR melt left and right, unless they come many vs 1.

The comments by the some of the Baruch Bay players in this thread are correct. BB has higher quality WvWvW guilds than SFR does e.g. BULL (ex-Deso guild), SiN etc. And Deso has the best PuGs in the world.

The gold league positions #2 and #9 are still far from decided. If the current situation holds ER, BB and Jade all will be at 18 points after this week. And the winner of that match up will be at 23 points.

I do not see any point in buffing greatsword as it is already the most popular mesmer weapon by far.

Xelic.8674:

Better not speak even a little bad about SFR or they might not help you if you ever get into tier 1 again.

Baruch Bay guilds are nothing spectacular, not sure where you pulled that out.

http://i.imgur.com/xpSqnJ4.png
SFR’s plot thickens!

EPIC screen shot link. ;-)

And look at the current match up (screen shot attached from http://gw2wvw.org/ ). SFR 78% focus on Desolation and Jade Sea 73% focus on Desolation. It seems everybody is afraid of Desolation and can only win by double teaming. Might as well rename SFR into Doubleteamer’s Rest. Still fighting against them is more fun as they don’t run away like JS does, so my hats off for SFR who can also do equal numbered fights.

Deso tick from the objectives has of course been low with such an amount of massive double teaming, but we still got points from stomps. This reset evening has been such a blast. Zero deaths and crazy amount of loot bags.

Predicting the #2 to #9 positions of gold league is very difficult as the last 2 weeks decide everything and even the low ranked servers might rise up by getting 5 points by winning the 3rd tier.

Hebril Amolebin.9817:

You believe this kitten on your own really? The longest stadning VZ rival?! the server that purposely dropped to silver league? just to win against outnumbered opposotion??! long standing guilds from the beta? Where are Iron Gd then? and others..
Yeah you have god blob guid, and PT, Unit….
so much wrong info in a single post… Just for the single purpose to beat the single server in game that always have been primarily pvp/wvw ..And btw you guys understand that league is over the best you can be is second anyway do your math.. with the weeks left and the points to be won… Or you think you can bump sfr to 3th few weeks? in a row?
Good job though I suppose you still have the best pve comanders though….

The Iron Triangle[IRON] left Desolation over a year ago, but look where they are now. The Iron Hall [IRON] is still on Desolation. Like almost every guild, which has left Desolation: they are just a weak shadow of what they used to be when they were in Desolation. Probably the best WvWvW guild of all time in Guild Wars 2 was Vengeance of the Fallen. Sadly VotF sadly quit the game, but some of their players came back to Desolation. Desolation players co-operate and fight for the server, not just for the pride of some individual guild.

SFR has always been WvWvW focused, but their focus on pvp (and pve) is really weak. In fact no other server stands against Desolation when it comes to pvp:
http://mos.millenium.org/pvp_rankings

Desolation has all the top spots and about 50% of the TOP50 pvp players. SFR has no players in TOP50. SFR has several good WvWvW guilds, who are mostly organized hammer trains and very strong morning presence, which gives them the wins, but their small scale roamers are weak. I would argue that Kodash and Desolation are the best gold league servers in small scale roaming. Riverside and Augury Rock also have some formidable small scale roamers and I would welcome any of them happily to play on Desolation. I remember Vizunah also having some amazing roamers, but I haven’t faced them in a while, so I am not sure if they are still there. I know everybody wants to tell that VS is all about blobbing, but this isn’t the complete truth.

Most of the best Guild vs Guild (GvG) guilds are in Silver league of EU, not in gold. I would argue that the general quality of the WvWvW players in silver league is higher than in the gold league. I am not 100% sure about this after the massive transfers to Gandara. Logically their server is super stacked and probably has plenty of low quality players as well. SFR has surely also received their fair share of bandwagoners and these usually lead to internal struggles and queues. The reason why some servers are in gold and why some are in silver is coverage: gold servers tend to have better off-prime time coverage.

Being #2 in the gold league is not bad. The rewards are almost as good as the winner gets.

PS. If you didn’t understand the humor Omphin put to his 1st post, maybe Desolation is not your server. We have a lot of fun moments, laughter, but also strict command talk on our server-wide TeamSpeak.

Look at this screen shot from http://gw2wvw.org/

SFR has been focusing 54% Desolation and 46% against Baruch Bay. The 8% difference might sound small, but BB has also been focusing 69% on Desolation, while Deso has focused 63% BB. These lead to tens of thousand point difference and explain why SFR is leading. Without the double teaming Desolation would have won this match up.

I am not complaining, just stating the facts. Double teaming is a legitimate tactic. And the screen shot proves it is happening.

Just more proof that EotM map design and the increased verticality is an utter failure.

You can call me stupid, but I want real fights, not this. EotM is a pve map and all
discussions related to it should be moved to their appropriate subforum.

Bumping this up.

We still have room for more dedicated players, amazing well-organized & fun community. We have good changes to end up #2 in the Gold league. Players from all over the world at all times, but especially our morning coverage would need some help.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I don’t know what reality you live in but Pistol Whip should be the least of your problems as long as you avoid the Chain burst, which is easy enough if you know how the Skill works.

5s Revealed would simply break the flow of many Builds, as much as Stealth is a annoying mechanic many Thieves rely on I don’t understand your argument for such changes because of ‘Culling’ and Lag.

Pistol whip spam isn’t a personal problem. My build is well-equipped against thieves. I think a skill which does very high damage, evade and stun simply does too many things for one skill, especially if it can be used repeatedly without a cooldown. Like I illustrated in my earlier post in this thread certain condition spam is problematic and on the borderline or overpowered, but so is spamming stun: earthshaker, pistol whip.

I know culling was officially removed from WvWvW eons ago, but what else could explain seeing mysteriously long stealth durations. They mostly occur in the EBG map when there is huge lag. I have several times seen enemy ranger (in 1 vs 1 situation) have much longer stealth than 4 seconds without a pet which gives him stealth, so basically longbow #3 can appear like 8 s stealth.

I really would like an official reply from the Arenanet developers:
Why revealed is 3 seconds in WvWvW, even though stealth is much more powerful in WvWvW than in pvp?

Nikkinella.8254:

Terrahero.9358:

Deniara Devious.3948:

snip

Yah im not really seeing this “condition meta” either. Zerging is still power-based hammer-train. And roaming is still, and always has been, dominated by power/zerker builds.

If anything its been “power meta” since day 1.

Are we playing the same game? I see nothing but condition builds. since the patch i have yet to see even a single roamer with a power based build. everyone is in dire gear using cheesy no skill, brainless, condition spam builds. no amount of condition cleansing is ever enough. Most condition builds now can instantly load you up with 8 conditions and you’re health starts rapidly draining if you don’t cure it, then the second you blow your cure, they’re back on you again. And then you die. Its absolutely ridiculous how overpowered conditions are in small fights now. P/D thief being by far the worst out of all of them. Combat has gotten extremely dull and passive in this game. Its just spam as many conditions as possible and let the game win for you on autopilot. So much for active combat.

Like my very limited analysis in this thread pointed out thieves are the most frequent roaming profession, with warriors coming second. I also encounter a lot of mesmers in roaming.

P/D is a common setup. But instead of going full dire, many of them seem to run some of hybrid gear e.g. mixed dire + PVT or partially celestial gear.

I am often encountering S/P thieves in WvWvW, spamming pistol whip. I just do not understand why people complain about condition spam as I think spamming pistol whip is as brainless and lacking skill. I think pistol whip should have the same initiative cost in pvp and WvWvW. I also never understood why revealed is 3 seconds in WvWvW and 4 seconds in pvp. Stealth is far more powerful in WvWvW and in fact the culling and the server lag makes sometimes the stealthed opponent appear just 1 second. I think for WvWvW revealed should be 5 seconds and the maximum duration of stealth (using combo fields or any other method) should be capped to 8 seconds.

I was yesterday roaming several hours. Either fully alone or with 1 thief as a partner. Here is a break down what kind of enemy roamers I encountered:

9 thieves (none were full conditions, most were either hybrid power/condi or few were power burst)
2 mobility greatsword warriors
1 PU mesmer
1 condition necromancer
1 D/D elementalist

The warriors were obviously not condition based, even though there are several very good condition based warrior builds e.g. dual sword + longbow. Some thieves now use the 6xKrait runes + skale venom and some are P/D or 6xperplexity rune confusion spam, but D/P+SB setup is still the most common and S/P and S/D are also quite common, but D/D thieves are getting rare.

This totally pales in comparison to the hoards (impossible to count) of hammer warriors, staff guardians, staff necromancers and staff elementalists I saw in the zerg fights. Almost nobody runs full condition setup for zergs.

I didn’t lose a single fight, but later in the evening I was killed while defending Garrison against several enemy groups. I play a mainly power-based (balanced) rifle engineer, not your typical pistol/shield condition bunker engineer. I don’t use elixirs or the healing turret, so I seriously lack condition removal. Condition and hard CC are my build’s worst nightmare, yet I do not consider conditions overpowered. There are just few condition related traits (like incendiary power), which need minor toning down. Similarly some skills (like signet of spite), which can put over 4 conditions from range almost instantly need to be adjusted (max 3 conditions per skill).

Condition necromancer vs my build is 50%/50%. Condition necros are weak against hard CC like stun, launch etc. I need to play top notch and get my hard CC at the right time to interrupt their key skills or I will lose. I am also weak against enemy condition bunker engineers, but any small scale group fights the enemy engineers are generally the easiest kills as they tend to lack stability and massive condition cleanse (my build has 7 sources of CC!).

PS. I am not into dueling. I just want to get my server as many points as possible. Desolation for the win!

I haven’t noticed any increase of engineers here in the gold league of EU. In fact I have noticed a drop of engineers.

Thief, mesmer and warrior are the most popular roaming professions. Zerg meta is still hammer warriors, staff guardians, staff necromancers and elementalists.

Even though this action probably cost Desolation the #2 spot in the gold league, I am not angry at SFR feeding the points with BB and double teaming Desolation. In fact I have been surprised that SFR has been playing relatively fairly most of the time. And unlike some other people on this thread, I know SFR has some good players as well.

There is no objective measurement, which server has the best players in WvWvW. All we know is that no other server stands against Desolation in pvp:
http://mos.millenium.org/pvp_rankings

(Not a single SFR player within TOP50 in that list and Desolation holds over 50% of the TOP50 players. Everybody can draw their own conclusions from that)

The winner in WvWVW is mostly determined by coverage and population. I am actually honored that SFR chose to have Baruch Bay as #2 instead of Desolation. This tells more than a 1000 words about how SFR ranks BB vs Deso. It is a legit tactic to intentionally give up your objectives and points to one of the other servers and single focus on the one whom you don’t want to be #2. War is not fair and I accept that.

I seriously disagree with the OP. WvWvW has a lot of problems, but original WvWvW maps are not the main problem.

EotM is a good example showing that making the map larger and removing most of the waypoints will not reduce zerging, in fact the EotM map design pretty much killed all the small scale roaming and EotM is nothing but zerging. I really hope NONE of the EotM map designs are copied to WvWvW. If there would not be achievement points tied to EotM and EotM would have equal or worse rewards per hour than WvWvW, very few people would play it.

The biggest problems of the WvWvW are:
1. Boring and stale meta
- has been the same since Autumn 2012, with hammer warriors, staff guardians, staff elementalist and staff necromancers dominating
- skill balance is based on tpvp, which is completely different from WvWvW
- stealth is overpowered in small scale and roaming, yet no developer comment

2. Coverage imbalance
- The wins are decided by coverage and population
- To make matters worse players can transfer to the winning servers
- Matches are often decided already in the beginning, the last days don’t matter
- outnumbered buff is not very useful

3. Horribly bad commander UI
- no possibility to toggle the commander tag just to be visible to your own party members or guild members, no chance to customize the commander tag color

4. Lack of communication with the player base
- the player base doesn’t know the direction the game is heading for and many are severely disappointed by the direction Arenanet developers., who do not seem to be hard core WvWvW players themselves, are taking WvWvW e.g. totally unneeded buffs to siege, more and more emphasis on pve side (champions etc. in EotM), borderland bloodlusts (still not removed from the game!)

Redesigning the maps should be lower priority than fixing any of these. The hard core WvWvW players are not leaving because of the maps, but because the fights are the same and same, with few professions and builds being overly abundant and overpowered. Like one of my friends say “Arenanet is making this game ONLY for casual gamers, so let it be”. Arenanet developers never understood that WvWvW is the game mode which attracted the highest amount of serious, competitive hard core players, not the pvp. They poured more resources to tpvp, trying to make it esports. April 15th update show that this game is far from being balanced and many of the earlier changes made this game easier (way too powerful passive abilities like passibve healing, increase areas for AoE skills, reduced cast times for several skills). While these changes are nice for Mr Casual Joe and make it easy for beginners they also make the the game less skill based.

lordkrall.7241:

And you actually can WvW. Edge of the Mists is open.

And you actually can pve. Edge of the Mists is open.

There. I corrected it for you. Sadly EotM is a pve map, which has spvp-alike looks and was sold to us a WvWvW map, which it isn’t.

Making new WvWvW maps should not be high priority. EotM and the borderland changes were both failures, as I have illustrated in my previous posts in other threads. They are gimmicks, which look shiny and nice to some players at first, but do not hold long-term interests, unless you slap better rewards and achievement points to them (with that method you can make any fail map design popular).

Instead of building on the solid success of the original maps, EotM map took a completely different direction. EotM is a pve map, with spvp-alike look & feel, which sold to us as a WvWvW map. It seems as if Arenanet ignored all the good suggestions and took the worst ideas and put them together. From tactical and strategical point of view EotM is horrible. Nightmare for roamers. It just one big karma train, full of overpowered NPCs, very low quality fights and ledges and , where you can fall into nothingness.

The original WvWvW maps were much better and are still very good. People are not quitting WvWvW, because the maps are the same, but because the match ups are boring & repetitive and the game balance is so bad it makes me want to cry and there is way too much emphasis on making everything for casual gamers only. That is half of the top EU WvWvW guilds have more or less quit the game. They wanted hard core, very high skill level game, guild vs guild, exciting & even big open field fights, instead of fighting against the doors, arrowcarts and trebs. I would be really happy to see the original borderland maps back and the BL bloodlust completely removed from the game. The complete removal of the siege would probably also create the best week of WvWvW in this game. Siege = boring fights in the long run (my main character has lots of siege masteries, but was it fun today to sit on superior AC and press a few key presses to get loot bags = NO!)

The population imbalances and the commander system however should be top priorities. Here is my list:

1. Population imbalance (the current outnumbered “buff” is not doing much)
2. Better commander system e.g. commander tag visible only to your guild mates, different colors and modes (roaming, PuG etc) for commander tags, better commander UI.
3. Skill and profession balance for WvWvW as well (it is obvious that certain professions, skills, consumables are overpowered and have been abused since Autumn 2012, still no developer reply!)
4. Better tools to build and cater communities (the matchup threads should be brought back. It would really be great for the leagues)
5. Better communication with the player base (example: over 100 threads about stealth being broken/overpowered in WvWvW. Thousands of posts and not a single developer comment or reply in over 18 months!)

Skill lag still exists on the borderland maps as well.

I already explained in another thread why this idea is BAD:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Decap-Engi-HamBow-Warrior-S-P-Thief-nerfed

Summary: long range unblockable attacks with very low cooldown = overpowered and easily abused for other things as well. Cleansing ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. No viable warrior build is without it.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I wanted to chime in about Hambow. While I get why they are trying to push people away from this spec they are continuously hurting other builds in the process. The thing that makes bow so valuable is that it is a reliable way to get rid of conditions via Cleansing Ire. Most other bursts are easy blinded or avoided and even between CI, Zerker Stance, Dogged March, and Lyssa runes you can still be overwhelmed by conditions if you don’t hit your bursts.

What I think Warrior needs, and I have suggested this in the past, is a burst that doesn’t necessarily hit hard but fills the role of consistent condi cleanse. I think that Greatsword would be the best candidate because the current burst is useless. If it were to be changed to something like:

Arcing Slice: Send out a slash of air that strikes the foe. Unblockable. Range: 900

Cleansing Ire is already too good for a 20 point trait. I cannot imagine any viable warrior build which doesn’t use it. And warriors have much better condition removal than most of the professions, even if they do not equip the longbow.

Greatsword burst is weak, but weapon itself is far from weak as it offers both the highest mobility in the game, 900 ranged cripple and massive dps (100 blades), all in just one weapon. 6/8 professions cannot achieve the same mobility even using all the possible utility skills. Having 900 ranged unblockable attack with under 10 s cooldown = overpowered

One of the smartest ways to nerf the warrior would be actually to increase the warrior burst cooldown by 10 seconds. Traits points in discipline line would naturally reduce this extra time as well. The ability to spam earthshaker (2 s AoE stun, leap, blast finisher) with less than 10 s cooldown is brokenly good in WvWvW large scale fights.

Arenanet’s official vision for the warrior was that it would have the best health, the best armor, good damage, good group support, good CC, good mobility, but conditions would be its achilles’ heel. Many patches keep roughly doubling some warrior skills e.g. banners effectiveness to stats was roughly doubled, signets buffed, healing signet almost doubled in effectiveness. New traits like dogged march and cleansing ire to make warrior almost impervious to movement impairing conditions (paired with mobile strikes). Some skills like pin down got 6 stacks of bleed in addition to immobilize. Berserker stance gave immunity to conditions. Sword and rifle got buffed in many ways etc. At the same time the nerfs have been so small and the planned nerfs are also going to be 8-15%. Next fast hands traits + 4 sigils in weapon.

Compare this for example what they did to the engineer. Kit refinement completely nerfed to the ground (no competive build uses it). First grenade kit auto attack 30% nerf in Autumn 2012. Now planned 40% nerf to grenade kit #5. Automated response 50% nerf incoming (I am glad AR is nerfed though).

So the philosophy goes: warrior is fine without having any major weaknesses as all. While every single other profession has some major weakness e.g. necromancer lacks mobility, thieves are squishy and rangers lack active condition removals and stability. According the balance team all skill nerfs to warriors should be very slow and minor (“let’s wait for the meta”), but buffs can be massive (“This skill feels weak. Let’s double the skill’s effectiveness”). While for some other professions, let’s use the 50% nerf hammer. ;-)

This all leads to just one conclusion: without further adjustments warrior will continue to be heavily overpowered after the April 15th patch.

Very interesting indeed. And it was published on the 2nd of April, not on April’s Fool’s Day.

But I wonder how are Temple Events then handled? Currently one just needs to glance web sites like this:
http://www.gw2state.com/temples.html

And then choose a world, where the temple is open. Does the mega server system allow to change between the “overflows” or is one forced to do the temple event with whatever people on that map?

For WvWvW this would be a drastic change indeed. I guess we would see factions or alliances instead. I don’t think it will have anytime soon for WvWvW. They will first test it with pve and then fine tune it and maybe later implement for WvWvW. Most likely the will introduce redesigned maps at the same time. I just hope the old WvWvW maps will not be replaced by a EotM concept. EotM = boredom maximized and really a pve map.

MiLkZz.4789:

Was gandara ever doubting to not win silver? o.O

With the influx of people you got and the night coverage you can easily win bottem tier of gold.

Hey hey! Desolation is still in the bottom tier of gold league. Do you mean Gandara would beat the mighty Desolation now?

Well, at this speed Desolation is rising up the ranks. And I think after the leagues, Desolation will be having a well-earned vacation. We are really pushing now.

http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups

Bunda.2691:

Care to elaborate on the more advanced EU meta and the meta countering and moving beyond hammer trains. I’m not disagreeing, just curious.

Hammer train is prevalent in EU as well. Simply because Arenanet is incredibly stubborn and doesn’t listen to its player base. Being able to spam a skill, which is 2 seconds 240 radius AoE stun, 600 leap and a blast finisher with less 10 second cooldown (burst mastery) is simply broken. It is really sad that few overpowered skills, like Earthshaker, have been dominating the meta ever since Autumn 2012 when this game was launched. Warrior burst skills must have a much longer cooldown or Earthshaker’s radius needs to be reduced to 120 radius, now it is way too generous.

But back to the topic: I won’t reveal all of our tactics, but here in PuG/militia heavy server Desolation we have been constantly fighting against the best hammer melee trains of this game (most reside in Silver league EU servers) using just PuGs. Most PuG teams play whatever build and profession they want and they might be upleveled. Meaning we often have less warriors and guardians than the enemy does, but more ranged attackers and more “useless” professions like rangers and engineers.

The key things to win a well-coordinated melee train:
1. Movement, timing, dodging. If you get hit by the main burst of the melee train, you are pretty much dead, because the best Guild-vs-Guild teams have a lot of boon stripping (= bye bye stability) and their necromancers and elementalists do crazy damage.
2. Keep focusing on their backline, aka their ranged, mainly necromancers and elementalists under pressure all the time. A stunned, pulled, knocked, launched necromancer won’t be doing anything for a while.
3. Use your ranged to soften, stun and CC their group from range. And keep on moving all the time.
4. Use everything they do as well. Stacking for might, blasting water fields, using 1-3 chained veils, portal bomb
*5. Lure them to the terrain you want. E.g. take advantage of uphill. Lure them to the range of your siege, like superior arrow carts.

Welcome to Desolation, to see how well it works. ;-) But I warn you, buy bigger bags first, as you will get too much loot.

Speaking of the tier differences in EU: The differences are really small. Desolation has not received any major transfers for months. We were recently a EU rank 11 server (tier 4), but now we are in the gold league and rank 8 (tier 3) and probably rising up to rank 6 (tier 2) this week. We are completely dominating our current match up. See:
http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups

Here are some thoughts:

Imagine one dominating server running a full blob in one map, taking everything with golems and 70+ man blob. Then the same dominating server has 3-5 man teams in other maps and nobody else, using guild catapults and superior rams to quickly reset enemy keeps.

I have been part of the 3 man team taking down enemy keep at busy prime time and while enjoying the outnumbered “buff” on our side. So I know this is not just some theoretical example, but it is also possible.

Thieves and mesmers are already popular roaming professions. When the enemy server is outnumbered, I can often see enemy players almost solely rely on these two professions and run even 5 thief teams. Now with the suggested change, I can see that almost all of the outnumbered players would be playing these professions. Why? Because, mesmers can portal in people and thieves can easily access perma stealth. You don’t need more than just 2 competent players to kill an enemy keep or tower lord quite quickly. This would make defending structures a nightmare.

But I agree on one thing: Outnumbered buff should be do something more useful. And stealth in this game needs to be rethought for WvWvW.

Welcome to Desolation. We got loads of great players who are originally from Blacktide.

So far this match up has been a blast for Desolation. I would say that silver league has more difficult fights, now that Piken Square is also in Silver (and Piken still has good guilds). I haven’t seen enemies melt so quickly for a while. I mean both zerg fights and solo roaming.

MonMalthias.4763:

Having said that, I am unhappy with this change. First of all, this change does not address the underlying issue that Engineers have with the current meta, which is extremely poor active Condition removal outside of CF409 and Elixirs. There is practically nothing outside of the Alchemy line for Condition removal and Engineers are now approaching the point of the post December 10th Elementalist where trait-based condition mitigation is virtually absent – only, Engineers also lack strong condition removal tools in their Utilities.

This is an unintended consequence of the Kit Refinement rework that also eliminated 2 key condition removals for the Engineer – Cleansing Fire for the Flamethrower Kit and Super Elixir for Elixir Gun.

There was also a small, but significant change to Transmute that removed the RNG aspect of it, but kept Transmute’s passive nature and nerfed its maximum potential. There is no excuse for such passives in the game.

We are now approaching the nadir of Engineer active condition removal outside of Elixirs. Every single build that was not using Healing Turret before will now be using Healing Turret. We may even see some Engineers turning to Elixir C, which shouldn’t even be a thing.

I can only hope that more active condition cleanse through traits outside of Alchemy can be introduced because active condi mitigation of Engineer is now at its lowest point. So, here are a few, vain hopes for future changes for Engineer:

• Transmute: Instead of passive conversion of conditions to Boons, tie proc to Toolbelt use. Global ICD 12 seconds. If you think it’s too strong for a Minor trait, make it trigger only on next attack hitting so the conversion can be dodged and Engineer misses a cleanse.

• Elixir Gun: Make Fumigate also cleanse 1 condition on last tick of channel for the Engineer. It’s a long enough channel to be easily interrupted and Kit Engineer has a dire lack of Cleansing capability since the Kit Refinement nerfs. This change is also easier to shave: Changing the tick when the self-cleanse procs will change how long an Engineer has to channel before self-cleansing.

• Med Kit: Increase Drop Antidote’kittenbox so that it can also cleanse Immobilise when used. 1 cleanse per 15 is hardly overpowered, especially given that the cleanse doesn’t even work when Immobilised. A buff to Drop Antidote’s cleansing ability isn’t even needed, just make it work with Immobilise.

I agree with MonMalthias’ analysis that engineers sorely lack viable condition removal options besides elixirs and healing turret. I however disagree with his suggested changes:

The change to transmute would be a significant nerf to most builds. Many toolbelt skills have a very long cooldown (30-40 s) and the 12 s ICD of the transmute is invisible to the user, thus the timing would be difficult. Forcing engineers to put 30 points to toolbelt recharge and take 20 point power wrench trait to reduce the cooldown of toolbelt skills would seriously reduce the build variety. His change would benefit Static Discharge build, but I still consider that build more of a gimmick, instead of a balanced engineer build (which is sorely lacking from meta). A better way would be transmute converts a condition to a boon when equipping a kit (equipping a kit still procs confusion, which is a big counter against medkit users or those who constantly swap between kits).

I agree that passive condition removal should be removed from the game, but this is not just engineer related problem. Guardian’s have purity, a mere 10 point trait, with 10 s cooldown, removing conditions passively. Signet of Resolve (guardian), Signet of Reneval (ranger) and Signet of Water (elementalist) also remove a condition every 10 seconds passively. I suggest a class wide overhaul, instead of once again nerfing the engineer.

My suggested changes:
Elixir gun #3, furnigate, only remove one condition from allies, but also remove one condition from the user, both removals happening on the 1st tick. (So both a nerf to ally condition removal and buff to self-condition removal)

Med Kit drop antidote should remove 1 condition from the user upon skill activation, and another condition when walking over. I know this would be a huge buff, but the skill description still says “cures conditions”, but it removes just one and immobilize totally destroys still skill at its current form.

Talented individual players, not just guilds, are also welcome to Desolation. The transfer cost is now just 1000 gems. I am glad to see several of our old hard core players, who moved to other servers, now coming back to Desolation for the leagues with their friends.

You can see our ticks and income evolution:
http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/15/
(those times when we have low income, we still lack some players)

We are a server, who welcomes PuGs. Despite being a high population server, we still have a small scale roamers (like me). We can ninja capture a keep in prime time with just 3 players. Our prime time is full, but as people get the achievements done, we will have more room. Good PuG commanders are always in need and Desolation has tons of PuGs to follow and scout. Night and morning hours still have room. Meaning we definitely need more North Americans, Pacific, Australian and Asian zone players. Ya takzhe govoryu po-russkiy.

If we can keep the momentum Desolation has a good chance for places #2 to #5. Desolation PuGs from the win!

Vroum.2906:

Don’t really know where Deso stands.

I don’t think anybody knows for certain. Desolation is quite unique:

Outside Season 1, Desolation has consistently been outnumbered against lower ranked (= Silver League) EU servers, but Desolation has won most of these match ups with relative ease, because Desolation has better coverage and a good-sized night team. Many silver league servers, like Gandara, have strong prime time, but also weak hours, when they can loose everything. Desolation some North American players and Russian guilds as well. I am myself soon traveling to China and maybe soon Desolation has Chinese players (the Chinese can also access EU servers from China, at least I could on my previous visit). ;-)

Desolation is the unofficial pve capital of EU and we have very big and active pve population. Desolation has been and still is #1 pvp.

The biggest wild card however is the non-core WvWvW players. Last time in Season #1, Desolation, got massive influx of pve players coming to WvWvW. This probably earned us a wrong reputation, “all Desolation players run in berserker armor”, which is of course far from truth. Most of our core players use PVT armor.

If we get as big influx of players to WvWvW, we might end up anywhere from #3 to #6. Desolation lacks numbers to win against mega stacked servers like SFR. But besides Desolation, only Vizunah and Jade Sea are PuG-oriented servers in the gold league. The guild oriented servers are in big disadvantage against PuG-oriented servers, because many guilds might get tired to the very long queues and not getting their guild members to same map. Thus they might end up changing servers or even going to EotM.

Another wild card is possible transfers:

I do not expect any large transfers after the leagues have started, but during 28th March and 30th May, the transfer price to EU rank #7-9 servers will be mere 1000 gems. See:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/get-ready-for-wvw-spring-tournament-2014/

Transfer price to rank #1-3 servers is massive 2400 gems. And everybody knows the TOP3 will be so stacked, it will be almost dreadfully long queues.

Out of rank #7-#9, aka cheap transfer price EU gold servers, Desolation has the biggest appeal. Almost no queues outside the leagues. We are International, have very well-organized server wide co-operation & scouting & border hopping for WvWvW, server wide TeamSpeak, good coverage and the potential for massive blobs. I think all the Da Pain Train [PT] members have already been investing on bigger loot bags:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/PT-Da-Pain-Train-recruiting-on-Desolation/

Here are my predictions:
1. Vizunah Square
2. Seafarer’s Rest
3. Riverside
4. Elona Reach
5. Kodash
6. Jade Sea
7. Desolation
8. Baruch Bay
9. Augury Rock

(This assumes Desolation pve and pvp population will be sleeping )

Skill lag, rubber-banding, etc.
0.5-20 s skill lag, slight rubber banding
skills no registering at all e.g. unable to use elite skill, healing skill, even after 1+ minute of trying

What server are you on?
Desolation

Has there ever been a time when you or a friend are experiencing lag, while others in your party are not?
Everybody in TeamSpeak and map chat have been complaining about the same lag and enemy players seem to be only using their auto-attack and seem to have similar trouble not being able to use their heal skill, thus I assume everybody in the map has the lag.

Biggest lag has been on the Eternal Battlegrounds, especially when there is a huge fight in the Stonemist castle or on own BL, when there is a 3-way fight in Garrison (keep).

Has there ever been a time where one party in a map is experiencing lag, while other parties in that same map are not?

Do you experience the lag at very specific times?
Prime time EU (6-10 pm GMT)
Not every day, but sometimes

If so, can you estimate how many players are in each zerg?
30-80 players, possible two such zergs clashing or a three-way fight in Garrison (keep) or the Stonemist castle, but the lag also exists when I am on the other side of the map, solo roaming alone.

Disconnects seem to often more frequently when the server is more heavily loaded and sometimes many players from one guild get disconnect at same time, despite they are playing from different countries and using different Internet service providers, so this must be an Arenanet server related issue.

dave.2846:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Outnumbered, but still scoring well (and winning). Since 2013

The weak play on the easy mode and strong ones stay on Desolation

Your blob coverage 24/7 during the season determined this is a lie

I am talking about the situation right now. Today in prime Desolation had outnumbered buff on two BLs at same time.

But when the leagues start, things might change drastically. Desolation has probably the biggest (and at least most active) pve population EU and there is no denial we are number #1 in pvp. If the achievements once again make Desolation players flood WvWvW, well, then all maps are going to be full, but EotM should help on this respect.

But back to topic: If Gandara right now already has so massive queues in prime time, I can barely imagine how crazy the situation will be when the leagues start: many hour wait time to get to certain map. For a PuG server this is not so huge thing, but guild-oriented servers will suffer the most as they cannot get their guildies to the same map.

I classify Piken Square, Gunnar’s Hold and Gandara all as guild-oriented servers.

My theory is that PuG heavy servers have advantage in the leagues. Once again Vizunah Square looks much weaker than SFR (before the leagues), but let’s see who is the real winner. ;-)

All this queue talk just more and more confirms my belief that most of the Silver league servers have significantly more players on prime time than Desolation. Today Desolation has had a short queue only on 1 map and we got outnumbered buff even on our own BL at prime time.

Desolation is going have hell in gold league. Outnumbered all the time on all 3/4 of maps for sure. Our so called huge night team + few North Americans and Russians won’t be match for Vizunah or SFR. We got the coverage, but not numbers.

Outnumbered, but still scoring well (and winning). Since 2013

The weak play on the easy mode and strong ones stay on Desolation

Sarrs.4831:

I think they’re there because it’s supposed to be a power/condi hybrid weapon, but the only condition it can actually apply is Burning. Ask Guardians how well only being able to apply 1 damaging condition works for them.

But that is NOT the case with warrior. Sword/sword + longbow condition warrior is a viable build. And it has access to the following conditions without the use of sigils/runes:
- bleed (25 stacks easily)
- burning
- cripple
- immobilize
- blind
- torment

That is 3 different damaging conditions. With fast hands + 4 sigils, you can add in chill+poison if you want. Warrior can also go confusion with distracting strikes + perplexity runes. Those professions who do not have as good condition removal as warrior have are gonna be toast by those conditions.

I still repeat my design mantra: A well designed skill should do one powerful thing or two medium power things, never 2-3 powerful things at same time. Skills with combine several powerful things in one, should be either made very situation or balanced with a very long cooldown (60 s). Prime example of a badly designed skill: pistol whip (thief skill which does big damage, stun and evade and has zero cooldown).

Pin down does: direct damage, 6x bleed stacks (12 s), 3 s immobilize from range and it pierces

The bleed stacks from pin down need to go. Warrior’s longbow is a good weapon even after these changes and most warriors would choose it over rifle.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Berengar.6951:

25 second cooldown for 6 stacks of base 12 seconds bleed with a base 3 second immobilize

For comparison, Dark Pact, another 3 second immobilize on a 25 second cooldown, deals no bleeds, low damage, and has only 600 range, yet has a 1 second cast time.

The nerf to Pin Down is entirely justified.

Pin down is still overpowered for a long range immobilize. The bleed stacks need to be removed from it (they got added at some point, I never understood why).

In WvWvW, thanks to consumables etc, the immobilize can last almost 6 seconds and the 6x bleed stacks around 25 seconds.

It seems yesterday evening’s 3/4 full maps was just a temporary fluke (but Desolation’s population can vary widely). This evening prime time we got just one map full. I was at EB and were often enjoying the outnumbered “buff” on us. In othe words the usual situation.

Gandara is going for 12th position http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/
Just like I predicted it would have good chances for 3rd spot in Silver. My guess is that either Piken or Gunnar’s will win Silver, because they have better coverage, but guild transfers might affect the situation still.

Status update:

Desolation EU prime time is getting full as well. We hit queues at 3 of the 4 maps at the peak of the prime time. It took me about 5 minutes to get into Desolation BL with 11 players on queue in front of me. UPDATE: This seems to be just a temporary fluke.

Our tick has been really beautiful though. Now +420 (11:56 pm GMT). :-)

And this is Saturday. Usually Desolation scores relatively badly during weekend reset, but better during week.

Desolation:

Pros:
- International
- well-coordinated, server wide TeamSpeak with sub channels for each map, guild etc
- hosts some of the best PuG / militia commanders in the game, who are able to lead our random troops into victory against equally big hard core WvWvW guilds
- #1 in pvp https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/pvp
- unofficial EU capital for pve
- usually no queues, max short queue on one of the four maps
- relatively good coverage (among the best ones in EU)
- despite the relatively small core WvWvW population, we are rising up in EU gold league

Cons:
- you will need bigger loot bags or you will be constantly reading “Your inventory is full message”
- enemy will hate us, they will double team us, they will trash talk us

There are also other EU servers, which are not full of WvWvW players, see this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/Gandara-EU-Primetime-is-FULL/

nicknamenick.2437:

-10% attack speed.. you wont even feel or see the difference, besides its only there when using a sword/axe/mace in offhand.. nobody use it because they suck, besides sword off hand, but that’s a 100% condi weapon so they don’t benefit much

Actually 10% attack speed increase is not that bad. Imagine the previously it would take you 1 second to attack, but now 0.9 —> 1/0.9 = 11.1% more attacks in same time --> roughly same increase in DPS. Still Berserker’s Might, which can give up to +15% damage increase, is better if you can keep adrenaline up all the time. Note that the new trait has great synergy with dual wielding, which already gives +5% damage increase with axe/mace/sword offhand.

Mace and sword offhand are not bad at all. I might even argue that sword offhand is a bit overpowered in 1vs1 situations with a full condi tank build.

Nice video. For those who don’t know: Visceral Effect [vE] was born out of Extraordinary Gentlemen [EXG].
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/Visceral-Effect-vE-now-recruiting/first

I am not a member vE. I am just one of the smaller pieces of the puzzle.

But if you need company for some crazy roaming, I am all in. No restrictions to your character’s level, guild, profession or experience.

PS. vE or some other Desolation guilds, please make a video of some our epic defenses e.g. our keep defended against 3 big enemy guilds.

I feel sad about these traits, as they will further just deviate the class balance in the game mode I care about: WvWvW.

Phalanx Strength is even more easy mode for warriors in zergs and further makes the hammer warrior trains more overpowered: 25 stacks of might for everybody 24h7. Burst precision will allow high power + crit % warriors do some really crazy bursts with added reliability.

Engineer traits are all total lackluster. Turrets still have way too low hit pool and AoE will still destroy the turrets in a second. Despite being GM trait, Gadgeteer is clearly weaker than elementalist’s Master level trait:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Attunement

There is not yet information how well the new necromancer traits will scale with healing power, but this might bring a bit more sustain and group heal support to necros. Currently healing power is kinda useless stat on necros.

Ranger finally got some active condition removal with survival of the fittest. I would have altered some healing skills do remove 1 condition.

Bewildering Ambush is perfect from 1500 range (long reach) thief troll builds in WvWvW. Press F1 + 5xconfusion. Spam some interrupt like pistol with with perplexity rune set. And resilience of shadows gives crazily big 50% damage reduction under stealth (and perma stealth is still possible). GG… Such a “fun” way to play for enemies.

The mesmer traits, Power Block and Triumphant Distortion, can be seriously overpowered in right circumstances. One trait basically setting the outcome of the match. Sighs…

Cheechglg.8734:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Amazing that you get so much queues. Good luck in the Silver. I think Gandara will be fighting for 3rd spot in silver.

In the meanwhile on Desolation: No queues. Outnumbered usually on all maps, except on own borderland. And still ticking more points than the other two servers. :-)

just LOL… why have you covered the time on the mini map? me think’s because its 4 am, and out numbered buff only there from ur blob moveing to clear GH or AG’s border

The screen shot was taken yesterday evening prime time around 8 pm GMT. I was at EBG several hours and we had the outnumbered buff on us almost all the time, like we have regularly on 3/4 of the maps.

Like some other commented on this thread: I am not denying that Desolation does night capping and it is important part of our score. We are international server, with players in all time slots and from all continents (besides maybe from Antartica). But we have now also been ticking the highest score during prime time, while having not that many people (10-30) on most of the maps. Only map which has had queues has been own BL on two busiest hours and even there queue is generally 2-14 players, taking just 10 mins or so. If some our important keeps needs more defenders, we can border hop.

Amazing that you get so much queues. Good luck in the Silver. I think Gandara will be fighting for 3rd spot in silver.

In the meanwhile on Desolation: No queues. Outnumbered usually on all maps, except on own borderland. And still ticking more points than the other two servers. :-)

Chris.4527:

Warriors are not seen that much in the “roaming” stuff, its dominated by thiefs(wonder why?), mesmers, engineers, sd/sf/dd eles. You do have your random warrior roamer, but hes far and few between.

Maybe this is different on the other side of the big pond, but here in the middle tiers of EU I have recently seen more enemy warrior roamers than thieves. Warriors all use some mobility build, which almost invariably means the use of great sword (= high damage + extremely high mobility in one weapon!), often coupled with longbow, hammer or sword/shield combination. The same warrior build can have the best land speed, very good condition cleansing, very good resilience towards movement impairing conditions like immobilize, relatively high damage and burst, very good access to crowd control, good healing, good armor and high health, even some immunities, all in one build. All that is so good, I have seen a lot of enemy roamers swap into warriors.

I agree that thieves have traditionally dominated roaming and all other professions are far behind, but right now it seems the roaming profession TOP3 is:
1. & 2. (tied) warriors and thief
3. PU mesmer

It all boils down to the ability to handle 1 vs many situations and ability to reset fights. These two are the most important features of a roamer. Secondly a roamer needs enough damage to take down opponents and solo capture supply camps. Thieves can of course easily do that.

I would still argue that Shadow Arts line itself is not that overpowered, but duration of the stealth is the biggest problem in a WvWvW setting. Unlike in spvp, where the maps are smalls and you cannot contest a point in stealth, there is no real disadvantage of stealth in WvWvW. Stealth allows stealth stomping, get past and through enemy zergs with ease, get into enemy surrounded tower or keep with ease and allows the player to try to gank enemies and if the ganking fails, simply reset the fight with stealthing. To make things even easier, thieves of course have access to short-range teleportation (shadowstepping), which also like stealth lacks real hard counters (ranger Sic ’Em barely counts, the likelyhood of getting revealed by this skill in WvWvW is extremely low).

The maximum duration of stealth, no matter if it comes from smoke combo fields or skills like shadow refuge, needs to limited to max 8 seconds, like I argued in my other message in this thread. Long stealth is overpowered, allows trolling, easy reset of fights, contesting enemy keeps and makes fights frustrating and boring. Revealed should also be a bit longer, like 4 seconds. My suggestion would apply to all professions e.g. engineers can currently achieve much longer than 8 s stealth by using a lot of blast finishers and smoke field.

At the same time I would entirely remove stealth traps from the game.

Neko.9021:

Shadow’s Rejuvenation is indeed quite strong: wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow’s_Rejuvenation

However, such a Thief that spams stealth:
-Does not really help in speedclearing dungeons in PvE
-Does not contribute much in a Zerg fight in WvW
-Does not capture or contest points well in PvP

So they really don’t do very much that impacts the game in any meaningful way. They just run around and harass people in hotjoins or in WvW “roaming”. I’m pretty sure that’s why this trait isn’t really considered a problem.

Most players are seriously underestimating the impact of roaming (if done correct, not the trolling type of roaming, but actually doing the supplies and sniping enemy roamers).

About 1/4-1/3 of server points come from stomping. Supply is extremely important for defense and attack. A perma stealthed or extremely high mobile character can capture supply camps and snipe enemy dolyaks with very little risk of getting killed. Now almost every single solo or duo roamer I see falls into these categories, either a stealth-abuser e.g. D/P thief, PU mesmer or extremely high mobility build e.g. greatsword warrior.

I think the maximum duration of stealth should be max 8 seconds in WvWvW. There should be no such thing as perma stealth or long-lasting stealth. Any attack (even if it misses or gets blocked) should result revealed. Revealed should be 4 seconds. My suggestion would still also be in stealth 2/3 of the time, which is a lot.

Taterz.1706:

Thank you i needed a laugh.

Deso did a good job of tanking from kitten just for the seasons.

GG

Edit: And if i remember rightly Deso would log off when they had opponents to fight then log back on when primetime was over.

So Double GG

Why so much trash talk and hatred towards one server?

Desolation “tanked” in 2013, because we lost almost all of our hard core WvWvW guilds in spring and summer 2013. Unlike the enemies we cannot summon 2-3 big guild groups on the same map. We were outnumbered almost all the time and still the outnumbered buff is very common on us. Normally losing 1500+ WvWvW players would cause a tier 1 server drop to tier 8 or so, just like Blacktide did. We won Silver league, because of the huge influx of players from pve and the fact that Desolation plays more for the points than most other medium tier EU servers. Yes, that almost means playing off hours when others are sleeping. Coverage + split-team tactics + good server-wide coordination and playing for the points = win

Desolation has better coverage than most other EU servers, but we still lack numbers. Our strength is the quality of our PuGs and very good coordination in server wide TeamSpeak + some amazing commanders. We got players at any time slot (including the so called Oceanic and NA times), but even on prime time we can usually just fill one of the 4 maps. There are rarely ever any queues and if there is a queue it is just a short queue to one of the four maps. In fact it is not unusual to have outnumbered buff on 3 of the 4 maps (meaning the other two servers outnumber us of 3 of 4 maps). I know that many lower ranked servers have some queues to 1-2 maps on reset evening or busy prime time, but these servers also lack server-wide coordination and coverage and thus score worse. No major guild has transferred to Desolation for many months, but individual highly talented players are transferring here every week and they come from all sorts of countries, time zones and speak many different languages. We need every able man, child, woman and elderly person to win the war. When it comes to WvWvW, we are very far from being full.

Now Desolation has been fighting hard to get into the gold league. Yes, we went to gold. Surely enemies find something bad to say about it again? You were “tanking” from silver to gold. :-)