Guild Wars 2

Possible Combinations

with these combos keep in mind the first part of the guide regarding power/conditiondamage spread on a team.

Also the in my opinion not so good variants are in brackets ().

1. Bunker Teams

1. Guard +
2,3,kittentermes, dmgEle, DmgEngi condi or (power), (100bladesWarrior), dmg Guard, Powernecro, Thief, (powerranger), trapranger

2. Bunker Teams

1. Guard +
2. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, (DecapBunkerengi), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele)
3,kittentermes, dmgEle, DmgEngi condi or (power), (100bladesWarrior), dmg Guard, Powernecro, Thief, (powerranger), trapranger

3. Bunker Teams

1. Guard +
2. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, (DecapBunkerengi), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele)
3. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, (DecapBunkerengi), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele) – if you took spiritranger or necro, dont take 2
kittentermes, dmgEle, DmgEngi condi or (power), (100bladesWarrior), dmg Guard, Powernecro, Thief, (powerranger), trapranger

4. Bunker Teams

1. Guard +
2. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, (DecapBunkerengi), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele)
3. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, (DecapBunkerengi), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele) – if you took spiritranger or necro, dont take 2
4. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, DecapBunkerengi (it now is a good option), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele) – if you took spiritranger or necro, dont take 2
5 Shattermes, dmgEle, DmgEngi condi or (power), (100bladesWarrior), dmg Guard, Powernecro, Thief, (powerranger), trapranger

5. Bunker Teams

1. Guard +
2. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, (DecapBunkerengi), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele)
3. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, (DecapBunkerengi), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele) – if you took spiritranger or necro, dont take 2
4. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, DecapBunkerengi (it now is a good option), (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele) – if you took spiritranger or necro, dont take 2
5. Spiritranger, Hambow, Eviscerate, TerrorNecro, DecapBunkereni, (SecondGuardian), (Bunker Warrior), (Bunker Ele)

i’d probably run this specc with 2 warrios, guardian, spiritranger and decapengi

yeah the decap engi build is probably not the best

But it’s a gay specc so I won’t post the best possible decap build in my opinion ^^ don’t want even more decappers around!

something else for this:

Moving the Guardian – on how much points do we play?

I see this way to often with guest guards, enemy teams and in soloqueue.

GUARDS DONT GO AFK MID!

As a guard you are practically a defensive roamer. You shouldn’t stay on a point (unless the enemy comes to you, or you are the only one left and the point is needed desperately).

In general you should always roam your guard to the teamfights. This also brings us to compilations again.

Teamcompilations with 1 bunker

Teamcompilations who only have 1 guardian or bunkerish class have a really hard time. Lets say condi engi, thief, mesmer, ele (dmg). You have only 1 chance to win:

- Kill them faster than they can kill you

Because you can’t sustain when the fight gets long. And you are probably bad 1v1 (speccwise) and you can’t effectively move your guard.

This teamcomp is probably not that good and really hard to play. You will start loosing when the enemies get better.

You would probably have to play 2 or even 3 points. (Try to spike a point with 3 dmg dealers, while other caps close and guard goes mid) and then try to snowball them.

Teamcompilations with 2 bunkers

Lets say you have a spiritranger, a guard and 3 squishy dmg dealers (ele, thief, mes).

This comp is probably better. You don’t really need the damage from 4 dmg dealers, because in a 3 point game the team with 2 points captured over a higher amount of time wins. So 2 bunkers makes sense right?

it does, but it’s still not that effective. VS good teams you will notice, that the team who has the guardian in the fight wins (assume it’s an even fight 2v2, 3v3, 4v4).

Why is that? Guardians offer so much support AND damage. Burning, condition remove (which is active support but also a damage buff, because a good guardian will remove your weakness and chilled so that you can deal more damage). Heal, rezz and safestomps.

So you need your guard in the teamfights. Which is a problem in a 2 bunker comp, because if you play 2 points you need to probably move your guard sometime and then a squishy has to defend.

You would probably also need to play on 2 points in this comp, but start with playing on 3 points. Maybe spike far with 3 and then quickly support close mid with the other 2 while one caps. While the game is going on you should play on 2 points and only decap far fast if you can afford it (an opponent is down and stomped so your team doesn’t have any disadvantage in numbers).

Teamcompilations with 3 bunkers

Ok to be serious now the good comps start. Every good comp in my opinion needs at least 3 bunkers.

With 3 bunkers and 2 DPS you should play on 2 points. Why you ask? because your guardian should be a ROAMER!. Basically you need 1 bunker at each point while your guardian roams with the 2 dmg dealers to the fights. Far can be quickly decapped.

(for example ELE plays like this)

So basically: send 1 close – 1 mid (or far or wathever combination) and then move quickly with guard and the 2 dmg dealers to the fights.

Teamcompilations with 4 bunkers

This is best to play on 3 points. Why? because you can have a bunker on each point and a guard + dmg dealer supporting it. Cheesemode plays this comp. They have 3 really good 1v1 classes with high sustain a guard an a thief.
They all play classes which are really good in small skirmishes (stability stomping, safe rezzing etc. just wins 2v2s)

Teamcompilations with 5 bunker

This is possible. Mostly people send a decap engineer far and then just outsustain the other points (mostly with 2 warriors),

/agree

imo condition immunity should be changed (it shouldn’t be in the game at first place, but let’s try to get a solution) to:

“you are immune to condition damage, condition duration is reduced by 95%”

with this change a skilled fear or blind could actually amount to something to at least survive while he is immune.

This probably only goes for berserker stance.. traits which make you immune 100% of the time shouldn’t be in the game, but i doubt they will be removed. sadly

I also don’t think it will change the meta, but it will change at least something.

I just want something new… another class/build in the meta.

This game is really getting frustrating and moves in the wrong direction. I have so much hope and every balance patch it gets crushed. I’m expecting nothing, just another class to be ridiculously OP so we maybe have a slightly different meta.

But I don’t think it will change spiritranger, hambow, decap engi, perma evade thieves, terror necros

And I hope they have more for the ele than just this pathetic regeneration

But all we get is excuses and never some insight. Why not show us the current list of balance changes. At least we’d have something to look at.

But I think probably it will change nothing and then I will play another game

could a dev plz answer this rather than just avoiding the question.

1. will there be ANY balance change in the march 18 update

2. if not WHEN will it come?

I want to know for how long I can quit the game until pvp is fixed

Also there is another question to ask or another thing people should be aware of;

This meta is so broken, that the only really viable build on engineer is a fullbunker, because every other thing kills you on a normal build. (you can win 1v1s against certain classes, but condi engi is not viable in top tier)

When my team played with me as “normal” engi we struggled hard, and I couldn’t be the closepoint defender I once was, because I couldn’t win 1v1s as reliably as before (and couldn’t hold 2v1s long enough anymore). All because of the meta changes and powercreep. I then started playing more tanky variants leading to a fullbunker in the end and after that to a decaper.

I main engi since beta, got about 3500 games.

Haven’t played much decap engi tough. But the times i played i was nearly invincible.

Like said it’s hard to nerf decap engi without hurting the other engi builds, because you can play:

0 0 30 30 10 , 0 0 20 30 20, 10 0 15 30 15, 10 0 30 30 0 , 0 0 10 30 30 and probably more.

1. In my opinion one big problem is definitely Automated response in combination with the soldiers amulet (it triggers at about 6,5k HP). You can easily keep yourself alive with healing turret because you can heal in 2 steps.
→ Automated response otherwise is kittened and imo bad skill. Only helps vs necs and condi engis (without grenades). It only works well with soldiers, if you play it in a condition build good ppl will just condispike you before 25%.
→ Imo it should be removed or changed. Change should apply to all condition immunities. There shouldn’t be a condition immunity. I would like a 95% reduction of condition duration and immunity to condition damage. So that you can land a skilled blind or fear to get away or interrupt.

2. Automated medical response; In my opinion this is what makes decap engi so strong. It is the 15 trait in inventions and recharges your healskill at 25% all 90 seconds. It’s just too strong. I use it in my condition dmg build, but I think it should be changed. Decap engis would have alot lesss survive.

3. The meta; This is the biggest “problem”. Decap engi works so well because of this meta. You die really fast against a thief + mesmer, but can hold 2 warriors quite long. This is because of the many blocks and the ability to kite warriors also with knockbacks and immobilizes, also weakness on elixirgun kittens up most warriors making them unable to kill you. Most decap engis run protection injection and the trait which gives you 20% dmg reduction when knocked etc. So basically you get 45% less dmg when you are knocked or stunned which basically everyone does in this meta (pistolwhip, hambow in every comp).
—> remember not to stun or knock (or sink, float, fear) a decap engi or you will deal about half of your damage. Send classes with high dmg who dont need to stun (thief autoattack, mes, ele without using knocks, eviscerate warrior, etc.)

4. If you know how to counter it, it’s a bad specc; I recognized this while playing it. We where about top 70 with me playing decap engi. Watch quit vs votf ESl game on youtube. You will see votf struggle in the beginning, but as soon as they know how to deal with the decap engi he is just useless and gives them a free 5 point kill. Also depending on the map (khylo, waterfall on legacy) it’s really hard to decap good players (especially warriors) if they know their positioning.
But beneath this there are too many people who not know how to deal with decap engi and it’s just a kittened specc…

5. Killing it:

Remember,

- a decap engi has 2 dodges, an additional one with energy sigil, maybe he has vigor.
- most decap engis have 1 block (toolkit) 16 seconds recharge or 20, 3 seconds block
- almost every decap engi gets less dmg 33% at least or 45% if you knock, stun, fear, launch him.
- decap engis rely kitten knockbacks for their survive (and blind). So activate zerker and stability when he has about 70% hp, DONT knock him and DPS him down with another player. (wait for after the block)
- Know that most decap engis will have their heal recharged at 25% hp. This is the time where you’ll have to knock him. You’ll know as soon as you see “immune” that his heal should now be recharged (90 seconds cooldown remember)

thanks for the good constructive feedback sizer and sober ninja.

Sorry you two can’t play builds which aren’t on the list

shots fired

Back to the actual topic and guys who really contribute. Thanks Arganthium I put those 30 points wrong.

I think your build should be ok. It doesn’t deal that huge dmg probably.
I’m not sure whether to ban sword entirely or build a rule which alows other sword builds. But I can’t really think about it. Maybe the one now is ok

We probably got enough arenas now. Need more teams to sign up tough!
So far:

1. Read it Backwards [BooN] (not sure which letter is big and which small sorry)

Ok guys I had lots of feedback, thank you.

We only have 1 custom arena so far probably needs more, so if someone could lend their arena would be great.

Please tell me if you need something to be more specific and give constructive feedback (means tell how it should be done better).

What should be banned on mesmer?

Also keep in mind that it’s the intention to defeat the cheese meta in a first step (or dodge which is better acutally, thanks Baldric) meaning: no spiritranger, evadethieves, fearchainnecs, bunkerengis, hambows

I would like to see, what people play when the current most used builds are not allowed and after that in the second tournament make a new banned list, if certain builds dominate the “meta”.

Class stacking is not allowed keep that in mind.

Still need people who support. I want to make this happen and not only to stay an idea.

If you give suggestions please give them in list form:

Mesmer
- Afros banned

for example

ok plz everybody!

Teams who want to participate please write me ingame (infamous django). An ingame-mail would be perfect.

ppl who want to help with infrastructure plz also write me ingame.

I would like to make this happen in 2-3 weeks

Good point. I will wait how the response is and who wants to help and then look who maybe sponsors something.

If no sponsor is found I will do it myself.

Banning asuras is an interesting point. Discuss that more guys please ^^

Maybe the build should be able to change but not the class?

In this thread I just want to see how the response is and then set up the definitive rules for the tourney

what is the right approach?

I want a tournament which could be a realistic meta.

I don’t see a chance that guardian will ever change in it’s role and not allowing bunker guardian is like not allowing 4/5 of each team existing to play resulting in no teams participating..

We could maybe ban the 0 0 5 30 30 5 build only allowing support guards. But why.

Yes fresh air could probably need a banning.

Bunker Guardian was always part of each meta. It’s like banning monks in GW1.

I see your point. But all the Guardian players couldn’t participate probably resulting in no team participating.

Instead of asking me that just tell me what you think is OP about the guardian.

I know guardian is one of the most OP classes, because every team needs one. But banning bunker guardian is stupid.

I’m not an active guardian player but I know enough guardians and enough about guardian (500 games myself).

Okay since the matrix doesn’t bend and the spoon stays the same, why not allow only certain spoons to eat with.

Intro

I know nobody who likes this meta, so I want to launch a series of tournaments with banned builds and different rules than the others. I need people who support me (streaming, additional arenas, etc.) So if you want to support plz write me ingame (Infamous Django) or here in the chat with your ingame name.

The Tournament

- The Tournament is a best of 5. (so 3 wins and you win.)
- Rotation is: Forest, Legacy, Khylo, Temple, Random
- Any Team can participate. I would say we start with 8 teams, first come first serve.

Special Rules

- Classes may not be changed during a matchup. (so you have to fight all the 3-5 games with the same comp). You may change your build

- If a team runs a build which is banned it may change the build. If the team doesn’t change or use a banned build again the match is forfeited and the other team wins.

- No class stacking (only exception is dmg Guardian and Bunker Guardian)

Banned List

Here comes the clue;

Warrior
- Any form of Hambow (Soldiers/Zerker) – means the combination of Hammer and Longbow is not allowed.
- Eviscerate/Longbow (15,0,25,0,30)
- Any form of Condition Warrior
- Bunker Warrior

Ranger
- Maximum of 1 spirit allowed (healing spirit not included)
- Spirit of nature is banned

Thief
- S/D and S/P perma evade trickery thieves. (The combination of mainhand sword with 10.30,0.30.0 // 10,30.,0,30 is not allowed)

Mesmer
- No form of phantasm condition builds

Engineer
- Automated response banned
- Any build that is a fullbunker/decapper is not allowed (0,0,20,30,20 // 0,0,30,30,10)

Necro
- The traits Terror, Dhumfiire and Fearduration increase not allowed.
- Minion master

Guardian
-

Ele
-

Runes/Sigils
-Lyssa runes banned

Additions

After the first tournament the banned list will be expanded if certain builds dominate the tournament.
If you got more ideas for the banned list please write it here

Last words

So again guys, plz let me know if you want this to happen and if so, PLEASE HELP.
We need:

- more custom arenas
- shoutcasters
- etc.etc.etc

Guardian, warrior, spiritranger, sdthief and warrior\necro\decapengi probably

I hope this meta leaves with the new patch.. So tired of it…

I once wrote a guide to this. Maybe this will help you:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/A-Guide-to-sPvP-1-Teamcomps-and-roles/first#post3396250

my toughts;

“yay they will answer! Ok 50% of all the posts are about ele! Now they have to say something!”,

Their answer:

“We are not balance team, we know nothing about balance, we think ele is ok”

How do you make ele viable again?

(plz don’t argument with your last patch. It didn’t help the ele. If you want to increase build diversity don’t move traits which are needed in higher tiers – same goes for engi -)

can you give any information about new gamemodes and new traits?

Thanks guys, I made a somewhat beginners guide with a “glossary” where I explain the terms look it up and tell me if you think something is missing. I want to make 1-4 guides to cover the whole of pvp.

I think many people would like to pvp but it’s really hard to learn and just jump in

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/A-Guide-to-sPvP-0-Beginners-Guide/first#post3326168

btw “inc” is explained there ^^

I really didn’t find any time, christmas and stuff, but I will follow up with a “mapguide” and movement guide for each map (niflhel, legacy, khylo and temple).

Mesmers have more ability to disengage, you can loose the focus in teamfights with ports and stealth, you have more invul.

A Staff/GS mesmer is actually fast enough to disengage a thief, but will probably also be killed.

A mesmer just does everything better than an ele at the moment.

Especially Stun mesmers will be coming in this meta.

So to make it short; Our ele is not a really good mesmer. But if he plays mesmer he is so much more effective than on his ele. He dies less, deals about the same dmg or maybe more, has portal. It’s insane this imbalance.

Mesmer could even get top tier in this meta maybe

I have to say that my team plays with an ele and we don’t really play meta and still can stand foot in the meta pretty decent.

But at a certain skillcap (at about top 70) you can’t win with better tactics. Everyone is good there, you need to win the fights and you can’t if you don’t play the op meta builds.

And ele just doesn’t have a place in the “best teambuild”. I don’t want to QQ in here, but this thread shows how less people know about the bad state of ele. We should work together and make this class (which is one of the coolest class designs in my opinion) good again.

So it’s not the question IF the ele is viable but HOW to make him viable again.

just to say my main is not ele and not thief. I have 3,5 k games on engineer.

But I played in 2 teams with eles now and have 600 games on ele as well AND I theroycraft ALOT with my ele friends to make it viable again. And just nobody has a solution.

(btw I have 1,8k games on thief too if that matters for you)

Why do you think there are almost no eles around anymore? why did you think phantaram rerolled on thief? It’s just a fact face it, ele is not viable.

You can play with ele, but you will never be as effective as with another class in your teambuild.

We also play with ele and are around top 100 all the time. But when you get to top 50ish or so teams are just too good tactic wise, you can’t win with better tactics, you need to win the fights and that’s where ele just looses you the game.

mini.6018:

Django.5923:

an ele wont do ALL of that at the same time.

An ele just can’t get away against a decent thief that’s my point.

If the ele goes back overextending and the whole team doesn’t go back with him he is food for the thief. That’s why an ele has to stay in the fight even if he is focussed because he will die anyway.

A thief plays S/D that’s how he finds so many ports and does still do dmg. Infiltrators, infiltrators signet, steal, shadowstep and that’s only 1 weaponset. He would also have infilltrators arrow on shortbow if he would need it.

(also works with backstab. you just backstab him and when he gets away steal – infiltrator signet or number 3 and you get the last hits you need).

An ele can win 1v1 vs a thief. The problem is that it’s always like this:

“Ok me gud in teamfight, deal lot dmg, kitten THIEF ON ME, I’m down -.- rezz me dudes I mistform tu ju! NICE I’m up! there thief target! kitten I’m instadownagain wtf!”

No one can get away from decent thief .Just saying.

yeah and ele can’t sustain him AND can’t get away. That’s why he needs one of those options. I was referring to the guy who said he can just disengage vs a thief with his staff ele

an ele wont do ALL of that at the same time.

An ele just can’t get away against a decent thief that’s my point.

If the ele goes back overextending and the whole team doesn’t go back with him he is food for the thief. That’s why an ele has to stay in the fight even if he is focussed because he will die anyway.

A thief plays S/D that’s how he finds so many ports and does still do dmg. Infiltrators, infiltrators signet, steal, shadowstep and that’s only 1 weaponset. He would also have infilltrators arrow on shortbow if he would need it.

(also works with backstab. you just backstab him and when he gets away steal – infiltrator signet or number 3 and you get the last hits you need).

An ele can win 1v1 vs a thief. The problem is that it’s always like this:

“Ok me gud in teamfight, deal lot dmg, kitten THIEF ON ME, I’m down -.- rezz me dudes I mistform tu ju! NICE I’m up! there thief target! kitten I’m instadownagain wtf!”

Fire – Burning Retreat – 20 sec CD, evade, fairly long retreat distance.
- Hey he did firething, I just port myself and kill him with number 3 and 1

Air – Gust – 400 knockback, 1200 range
- Hey he knockbacked me but I just port trolololo

Air – Windborne Speed – cripple/immob/chill cleanse, 10s swiftness
- He does strangy light fieldy thingies, i just evade with 3 and evades and kill him

Air – Static Field – 2s stun, big AoE field
- I just evade, oh kitten it got me, port kill him trololo

Earth – Magnetic Aura – projectile reflection
- kitten now i can’t throw my sword or daggers after him

Earth – Unsteady Ground – won’t let enemies go across it
- kitten i can’t get… port

Earth – Shockwave – immobilize
oh no I’m immobilized and he can get away. Basilisk venom stability port trololo killed him. all gud guise

Ele NEEDS more mobility. Crippling etc. doesn’t help the problem

BTW ele was nerfed for a reason. The reason was that it was the strongest class. Now he got nerfed and everything else got buffed immensly so he should also be buffed again…

Darnis.4056:

Soldier ammy warrior should never have been able to do what it did , it was mega super duper Op, now warrior is just super strong.

I see lots of people running ele successfully in team que…

I know like 5 ppl who run ele in high ranked team queue and they could all be more successful on another class.

mini gets my point finally xD

I don’t say ele is kitten. I love ele (even tough i’m not an ele player). I love having one in my team and that its one of the coolest classes.

The problem is it just has no role in this meta. And for ele to be le’ts say used and not viable, ele needs to find a place in these roles.

For him to find a place there are 2 options: Shave the better options to ele (which probably wont happen), or buff him to the same extend as these other classes.

Which would mean give him more movement.

We ran 5 of them lately against a team with 5 necros. We won 500 to 0

You are right in theory. But in fact you just die always as ele.

You are at the side of a point and nuke. Let’s say khylo on clocktower. You stand up, because you dont want to get hit. Guess what? backstab. you are instantly dead.

Or let’s say he is an s/d thief. He kills you and you mistform mid and get rezzed just to be instant down again.

My team plays top 100 with an ele, we really know what the problem is.

Your Staff ele thing sure is viable in hot join or soloqueue

I know what you want to say. Thief has a build problem. But Thief will be a MUST HAVE and stay in high tier pvp because of his mobility.

As said. Reduce RTL to 15 seconds or 20 would also be ok again and ele could actually be viable.

I’m not a top 100 thief. I’m not even a thief. And i wont waste my time proving you that ele is not viable. Karsaib, Sickness, Apollo and Sunshine know whats going on. And I know them ingame as good ele players.

You can’t just bring your pve staff build stay max range and expect not to get focussed. Viability is not about the possibility to play the class. You can, just that each role there is another class can do better and that’s why ele is not viable.

If you want to prove to me or others that ele is viable, you have to show which role your build will fill in and point out why it is better then other builds in the same role.

But honestly, it’s like sensotix says “listen to the wrong players”.

Why actually do eles need to have a cooldown on attunement swap ? Why are they not like engi kits.

It’s not that you can spam anyway because the skills have such high recasts. This would allow much more skilled play

ok show us how you fight an S/D thief with staff ele. make a guide

mini you have no idea…. warr is still op. You just change 2 traits and have the same effect.

At least karsaib and sunshine now what is going on thx for the good posts

btw I’m NOT an ele, i play engi

so you play top 100 with ele and have a viable build? post it plz thank you.

otherwise this build is probably very good for dungeons! well done

So I want to keep this rather short.

The problem with ele is not his build diversity. Which pretty much got nerfed with this patch even more.

The problem is that ele just has no place, every role another class does much better.

Tpvp has several roles:

1. Mid-Main bunker —-> Always a guardian
2. High dmg Roamer for decapping (should have high mobility and disengageability) —> always a thief, possibly a mesmer
3. Close Bunker --> ranger
4. Teamfighter/Roamer
5. Farpointbunker

Ok the 1. is a guardian. We can’t change that.

2. Is a possible role for the ele. Ele has reall nice damage. But not enough mobility or ways to sustain himself / disengage. (thief is faster, lives longer and deals the same or more dmg..)

3. Ele could be a closebunker with fullbunker ele. That could actually work. But ranger is still ALOT better. Huge teamsupport + rezzes.

4. Teamfigher. Same problem with 2. Ele just has to less surviveability. Means sustain AND disengageability. Other Builds in this role have blocks, invul (don’t tell me ele has invul too, i know that. But invul is useless if you can’t disengage). stealth and are incredibly fast with several ports (mesmer, thief). Both mesmer and thief do EVERYTHING better than ele probably.

5. Farpoint invader. This could possibly work. But engi has more utility can live longer and disengage better.

So what the ele needs is more ways to disengage and sustain himself. Not new traits or lowered cooldowns on attunement swap or moar dmg on staff.

If you don’t nerf (“shave”) warriors, mesmers, thiefs, rangers, necros, engis (what you won’t) ele NEEDS to be reverted BACK to the state at the ELE META
_____________________________________________________

This would actually make him viable again.

Give more sustain :
Enable multiple heal triggers on dodge again with evasive arcana.
With warrior heal signet as it is you might also change ele signet back to it’s current stat
give ele more base HP
lower the cooldown on RTL and all the movement skills. (give more movementskills as option)
Give more options to block

discuss I would really like to see ele again in the meta…

Really nice I wanted to write this in guide form but videos are much better.

You need to add several things tough in my opinion:

- what to do when you loose. How to regroup how to push (stealth push, how to push against what setup)

- How to react vs a decap engi. With your guide new players will just send people back to kill him fast to help the closebunker which wont work and loose them the game. (decap bunker is quite common nowadays and keeping your closebunker there is kitten). You should kill him fast with 2 dmg and send your second bunker mid.

- It would be nice to have alittle more information about teamcompilations. The thing where you talk about thief, guard and ranger/engi is really nice. You need to add the movement of the other 2 player also imo (would really help new players.)

- The thing that the engi pushes far after close and therefore is not really good in a setup which needs support in mid probably etc. is really nice moar of that. Would be nice with the other 2 missing roamer/teamfighers too.

- The team positioning at keep was interesting. But you could go in more depth with positioning, and even explain targeting.

Keep it up and nice work

Ok super made a really good video which explains what i wanted to do in the second guide So thanks for taking that work from me. I will tough keep this updated as it is about compilations and not rotations/movement on the map for each map

thank you guys. I will update/ write the new guide on thursday probably.. Not much time due to “finals”

when you change from eu to na and vice versa you don’t get chests. plz fix with the new rewards^^

ok i didn’t found time today I will do it some other day

Thx guys.
I realised (while playing with my pve guild) that many pve’ers would like to start with pve but have no clue what so ever. And the game provides not enough info to understand it (sadly). I hope this helps.

I will today:
- add all current builds to the lists for the sake of completion.
- write the third guide regarding tactics\openers on each map.

in future:
- i will keep this up to date all the time (like i do with the builds on my channel).

So to answer you cush. I will try to always change this thread so that it fits the current state of game.
it’s still work in progress. I don’t have that much time at the moment :p (project deadlines)

You are absolutely right. This guide is just in general. I will write a third guide about map specific strategies and openers

I see your toughts but you are wrong. If you want to cap the closepoint and bunker it you should play a class who can bunker + win a 1v1.

also even a decaper will get decapped vs another decapper.

a decapper binds 2 ppl because nobody can kill him fast enough. Either the team lets their close neutralized or they reinforce with another person.
if you are on close they can cap their close and push mid (that’s what they want). You wont probably even decap. Actually that is the counter to most decappers. Most of them just push far all the time. Give him your close and just play on the other 2 points once he is in a teamfight he is pretty useless. (dedicated closwdefenders. Spiritrangers are awesome in teamfights).

lets say you have this situation;
both teams have a decapper (doesnt even have to be a dedicated decapper teldo engi for example). Forest of niflhel.
both engis cap close. 4v4 at keep. After you capped close you run beach to see where he is running. He is also running beach and will go for your close.
what to do? If you run back with him thats the wrong decision. Because he will be able to decap you at some point leaving your team with 0 points and opponent with their closepoint.
you always want to provocate the situation where you fight on the opponent points. Meaning: fighting on at least 1 neutral and another point while you have capped one who ticks for your team. Its always an advantage. If you are loosing leave.

lets go back to the example. If you decide to push his far there are 2 options;

1. He follows you to defend; this is the best possible situation. You will be able to decap him at some point and your team can fight while you have 1 point ticking and the enemy none

2. He doesnt follow you and pushes; this is also no problem. You just “trade” points. Its always better to trade nodes rather than fighting on a captured one in these situations.
this trading game can go on for quite some time.

but to answer your question shortly:
- there are better fitted builds for closepointdefender
- there could be situations where it would be useful to have the decapper defend rather than decap
- he binds 2 ppl at least because nothing can kill him 1v1
- he should push far not defend close so you get the 1 point cap 2 decapped situation. (also if you go close you dont bind 2 opponents. And after you capped it you are of no use in mid )

Please tell me if you think something is missing in this beginners guide. I will be happy to add it

GLOSSARY

Bunker = Hard to kill class. Usually a guardian or a ranger (or engineer). His role is to defend the points.
Closepoint = The node next to your base.
Corrupting = When a necromancer uses corrupt boon to interrupt a save stomp with stability. (or just to use the stability to fear).
Defender = Bunker
Decapper = Someone who decaps the opponent points, even with opponents on it. Usually with alot of knockbacks (engineer, elementalist)
Farpoint = The node next to the opponent base.
Focus Target = Target, which all of the team should attack. Called by ctrl + T and targeted by pressing T.
Hardrezz = Skill rezzing an opponent. Should be interrupted. (spiritrezz, necro signet, warrior elite banner, engi elixir R, mesmer Illusion of life)
Invader/Invading = Usually used to describe opponents attacking your closepoint.
IOL = Mesmer rezz, Illusion of life.
inc = “incomming”, for example, mesmer incomming far, they are incing far —> attacking
Lordrush = Running for Lord with the whole team on Legacy of the Foefire.
Rezzing = reviving
Save Stomp = Stomp which can’t be interrupted. Usually with stability, block or some Invulnerable Skill.
Spike = High damage on one target at the same time.
Stealth invade = Opponents stealth and push a point.
Snowballing = Situation where your team doesn’t regroup after a lost fight and just runs in 1 by 1 and gets killed all the time.