Guild Wars 2

hey guys Django here,

you may remember me from my pvp tactical guides….

I quit GW2 a while ago to play LOL and DOTA2, with this new “moba” like mode my hopes were high, but it’s just lacking so much at the moment.

Things I’d like;

it needs to be more like a moba

1. NPC’s are just too weak, it’s boring.

I want the build, the lane fights and the team phase. There are two options;
1. Make NPCS stronger
2. Make Players weaker.

I’d like option 2. it fits a moba more. I think there could be two options;

1. really let players level and build like in pve (choose skills, runes etc)

or the option I would suggest:

2. Players start with their normal build and runes etc. BUT at level 1, amulets scale with level gain (from creepkills)

so at start you deal less dmg to enemy players and npcs, allowing for a lane phase and a longer build.
________________________________________________

NPC spawning

I think the mechanic with the doors and doorbreakers is so boring. Why invent the wheel anew? take towers who kill players and minions (ditch the treb for AI towers), leave the doors away, and ditch the whole supply thing. let minions spawn automatically, inhibitors etc. included.

I really love Mobas. What I don’t like that much about them is the graphics and the view. Also I don’t like when it rellies too much on item builds, I like pvp to be more skill based rather than gear.

So my DREAM is (my dreamgame.. if you can do it with stronghold <3 <3 <3);

MOBA;

- GuildWars2 Combat system, cameraview, movement etc.
- MOBA map, (like LOL, inhibitors, Turrets, Nexus’, Jungle)
- Not too over the top farming (Amuletchoice scales with levelgain), so it goes more about how you play and gain exp rather than which item you buy
- champions or heroes are just the possible builds you “preselect” (the skills and weapons and runes you choose)

please please do it, stronghold now is just so boring

Also make matches LONGER. We have enough PvP possibilities to just play a quick match.

Probably this already exists….

But please don’t do that! it would take so much fun out of the new mode…

we need some sort of GvG! and this can be it! make it so that you have to start it from a guildhall like in GW1 and let capturepoints be the AdH

I know many ppl who wont play again if the new maps are in the same rotation and there is no team ladder…

last placeholder

think you can comment now. These should be enough for the next few tourneys.

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

placeholder

work in progress please don’t commentate on this thread yet for overview purposes

About

Good evening. I’m Django and just applied for shoutcaster. some of you may have seen/heard my stream with sputti.

There is a thread asking for the tournament builds and I figured I could do a list.

So this is going to be a thread in which I will compilate all teambuilds of streamed tournament matches.
This will give starters a good feel of which builds are good and also give an interesting view on the meta changes.
Last tournament always at bottom.

ESL Weekly cup 55

1st Place – Rom’s Not Going To Jail [ROM]

2nd Place – Made In Meta [MiM]

3nd Place – You Wanna Be My Little [Boy]

Go4Cup 3

1st Place – Cheesemode [CM]

2nd Place – Made In Meta [MiM]

others: – Fifty Five Hp Monks [Ele]

Good points been brought up.

I would even like an ingame message like in gw1

The random guild has won the ESL tournament hosted today. (in green in chat).

For builds visit my twitch. I always keep an up to date list of all meta builds there.

Twitch.tv/djangogw2

After two years and a huge time investment I will quit this game.

I wanted to say goodbye to all my friends and the people I played with! It was a cool time. (i know they will see it here)

have fun and I hope for you that this pvp gets good someday.

Hail our savior and godking.

He emphasizes his endless power and wisdom by always pressing SHIFT when he writes.

Please make it happen! it’s only grey, i’d love it, if I could dye it in all the colours!!

just saying, they DONT have the technology available. Spectator mode has only 20 slots and changing that would mean to change alot.

A dev said that once in a similar thread.

It would be nice (guild wars 1 made it better, like so many things) but it will never happen

pvp is gon be good soon. just wait a few more years

well “old style” GvG was about killing the lord, big fights in mid (with flagrun) and/or splitting in the base.

I’m not sure how well the “old” GvG would work, due to the fact that gw2 has no healer. You could just rush the lord and who rushes first is the winner.

What I would like most is that they implement a healer or protter class and make teams of 8 and the old gvg maps^^

I’ve always been thinking about new map possibilities and maybe making a map, that is somewhat like GvG of GuildWars. I made this pretty quick today so don’t be too harsh. If the feedback is good I’ll continue the work.

I added a sketch of the map and a picture of the midpoint-design.

General

- Consits of 3 capture points, 2 small (homepoints) one big (legacy size, in the middle).

- first team to score 500 wins

- Lord gives 150 points

The midpoint

The midpoint is large and very good kite-able (many line of sight and kitespots) so fights will probably last pretty long. Also the walking distance from the base to mid is very short.

The closepoints

The walking distance to the own closepoint is very short, so it’s hard to assault far, but easy to defend close. Also the way from base to closepoint is a jump down. So you can’t get into the base from the closepointside.

The Base

- Guildlord which gives 150 points when killed
- Guildlord-Healer situated behind the lord. Heals the Lord constantly and gives stability to the Lord, Npc and Players
- 2 Elementalist-npcs in the Lordroom
- 5 Soldier-NPCs defending the entrances

Secondary Mechanics

- Lord which gives 150 points on kill.
- If the enemy team has 0 capturepoints you get 5 per kill, if they have 1 you get 5 per kill, if they have 2 you get 20 per kill, if they have 3 you get 30 per kill.
- at 5:30 the lord and ALL npcs will come to mid for a final showdown.

dzindzin stopped streaming ages ago.

Please add me for eu Engineer http://www.twitch.tv/djangogw2

needs more posts. Keep this thing up. Let’s try hitting the 10k mark

As you all know blu is going to gamescom which is great.

so;

WE NEED TO GATHER MONEY TO PAY ANET TO REMOVE SKYHAMMER!

I will post the bank account details later! I think we’ll need about 10K or more

who’s in? I’d be willing to spend about 400$

Hey Zoose. Maybe you know me, I wrote the guide about teamcompilation and rotations. Always like to help the community. If you want I would offer my help with anything.
(I’d really like to help with this)

For the inputs:

I would start with:

1. Teamcompilations

Talk which class is good in which combination (basically atm you have 5 bunker teams, 4 bunker teams with a thief and “movement teams” 3 bunker + mesmer, thief) imo.
Talk about builds which are good atm.

2. Openers and Rotation (after the opener)

For each team compilation, for each map, for each matchup how they have to behave against what opponent team.
In my opinion you can’t make a general rotationsguide. There are about 3 (or alittle more) teamstrats and you need to change the rotationguide for each team and for each matchup.

For example:

Strategies for Movement team on Niflhel vs Bunkerteam (1 video)
Strategies for Movement team on Niflhel vs Movement team (1 video)
Strategies for Movement team on Niflhel vs Bunker/Thief teams (1 video)

3. 1v1 section. What counters what and how to rotate in a match and for each class how to win what matchup. For example: Engi what to do vs Warrior, Engi what to do vs Guardian, etc.

4. Special video about what to do when you get wiped (again for each teamcomp on each map vs each matchup)

5. special kiting video series on each map on each point

Write me ingame if you want my help

infamous django

Since release the only good pvp changes were;

- temple of the silent storm (i like the map its well designed.)

- the pile of dirt on legacy (also not sarcastic on this one.. I honestly think thats one of the best things ever)

and failures (basically everything from and pre dhuumfire balancewise) removal of the 3 round tournaments

and another topic. WHY design a tdm map when its only in custom arenas (meaning its not in the game)
Throw it in soloqueue and hot join rotations, im sure people would enjoy it! (cant be worse than skyham and\or spiritwatch)
risk something, have some balls

also i think capricorn was a better designed map than skyham and spiritwatch.. Just needed to remove the point underwater and put it on the ship

Seriously if you do it right there is nothing anybody ckittene against you. Just be open transparent and honest:

for example;

- blog about new pvp maps and modes (a real thing released ages ago, now 9 months or so later still nothing)

- we are currently testing the maps internally and are expecting to release them in 3 months

- we tested and realised that two of the new mapconcepts where just not working, because it complicated balance to infinity

- we are working on a map which blabla but wont give more details

- we had a huge setback in our pvp team because two members left and we want to focus on the new story and tol first, we are still working on the new maps tough

- release map drawings screenshots of failed maps, let the community discuss. Maybe it didnt fail. Why not use a whole forum of experts which are alsonthe customers and let them help (for free by the way.. If the pvp team is small why not outsource problems to the community, you save money and time and resources and your customers design the thing they want. So you dont spend much money, means you earn more, while the customers have the product they want and if its not liked afterwards you are not to blame. Everybody wins)

but thank you evan! You didnt show us a carrot but you told us that a carrot exist and that we one day may also see and eat it maybe.

im not even sarcastic. That comment really helped me. At least i know that some change is still possible for pvp, and mayve a reason to log in again in the future

What makes maps interesting are not the secondary objectives but the x,y and z axis of the points (means position and hight.).

different distances and positions give different movement tactics.

so what we need is a good design of point positioning and also playing around with pointsize.

and what also is very important are things where you can kite. For example on henge in niflhel. We need more stuff like that

in my opinion id like to see a map which favours non bunkerish comps.

for example:

midpoint is far away and on a hill (porting up is possible) → lots of spots to kite etc.
also midpoint is pretty small (smaller pointsize. For now we have M and L we need an S).

closepoint is directly at base so that you can somewhat spam your skills from the spawn in the point (just an idea).

or both closepoints are the size of legacy midpoint and the middlepoint is far away and small. (sure this would favor bunkers)

a map with four “normal” points. Why only stick with three? You could also make a map with 6 points even… That would mean that bunkercomps would always get outrotatet by faster ones. But personally i wouldn’t go higher than 4

a map in which the points close to the base are only reacheable trough 1 chockepoint trough mid

a map in which the points close to the base are reacheable trough 4 paths.

my ideas on point size and position so far. Remember we need things to kite on ^^

secondary objectives:

in my opinion the big flaw in anets thinking is that they focus too much on secondary objectives. Its capturepoints so focus on that. Rest should really be secondary.

nowadays secondary objectives just give you more points or do dmg and are somewhat fair (both have a treb) But it doesnt have to be like that.

id like a map which gives +10 killbonus for each point you dont have. So if you are triplecapped you get 35 points for killing someone. Could really be interesting and would favor more bursty comps.

maybe make a map which has npcs defending closepoint (would also favor non bunker 3 point play) so fighting on the enemy point would be a disadvantage.

make a map in which points get decapped when playernumbers are not even. For example if two guardians fight 1v1 on a neutral point a thief can just come because they are 2:1 so he caps the point normally. If more ppl stand on the point it should cap faster (up to three ppl.)

maybe make a point which is two points. This would help non bunkerish comps. What i mean with that: two small points relatively close together (1600 range or so). For example if blue has the point(s) (ticks only as one) they are required to stand on point 1. To defend it and red has to stand on point 2 to decap point 1. That means there is no use for red to stand on point 1 while blue is forced to. That means you cant just sit on point with two+ bunkers and spam AOE in it because the fights get splitted

thats everything so far i guess

id also like capricorn back. But remove the water (make it a sandbank) and put the third point on the ship roof.

Not a mega giant. But better than gw2 with an enjoyable pve (which gw2 doesnt have for me, even gw1 pve was better in my opinion)

its not hard to design a better pvp than in gw2

Perfect balance is impossible.

better balance is.

take a handful of top players. Let them tweak some numbers. Do what they propose; voila better balanced meta

the current “balance changes” are none. Its just some petting (not shaving). In my opinion shaving sucks, they fail at it. It will be a powercreep forever. They need to do frequent patches killing all the op stuff creating new metas every 2 months

Gw1 was an mmo pvp game, gw2 is an mmo pve game with some sort of pvp

yes everquest next is far in the future. But adios guilwars2 if pvp is not better when it is released

I dont know where you play, but in EU engis and necros are not meta. Its a power meta with thieves, mesmers, warriors and eles.

maybe you play top 1000-200 then everything is viable. The builds start to matter at r150 downwards aproximately.

maybe in NA or china engi and necro are meta. But those two are really behind pvp wise

All that said. Balance at the moment truly is not bad. Almost every class is being played at the top and there are a few viable teambuilds around

That still is no argument.

you can be at the top with engi. Still another class could probably do it better.

also the NA spvp is much much behind EU spvp.

my team is not playing at the moment but we also where top 100 with engi all the time. That doesnt mean that its good. Maybe your definition of viable is another than mine. But engi is currently NOT one of the OP metaclasses.

engi works because many teams get surprised by it and are not used to fighting it and not used to the damage on the guardian in the teamfight.

i main engi since beta. Im not saying engi is bad. Its op
the rest is just thousand times more op and almost always another class would probably be a better option for your team.

(all that said my team never stopps playing our classes. We played with ele for months sucessfully before the update which made it op)

If its done right (balancing). The builds which are the strongest should be the hardest to play

Yes. You bring no counter argument and i have enough knowledge of the class, so make a point and contribute or shut it ^^

Seems like i need to elaborate;

1. Engi is too slow. Engi cant defend close. If you defend it that means you have to sit on it. You can go spam your nades in middle but if a thief goes close you are too slow to stop the decap. Ele and even ranger are faster and therefore the better option.

then in a fight your team has to peel for the engi, everything had to be about the engi. The engi is TOO SLOW to kite out a thief and a mesmer and if he leaves the fight he will possibly die offpoint without a rezz possibilty. Like i said: you have to kite like a boss plus have your thief etc constantly peel for you.

2. If you are not playing grenades engi is almost useless. If you are not playing grenades that means you need to go in the pont to do damage which means youll die soon. You can kite and hope your team killls something meanwhile but thats about it. Probably another class would be better.
furthermore conditions suck if you dont play at least two conditionclasses. In a teamfight when i lay my bombs there are just thousand cleanses going on. Lets say its guardian engi ele vs guardian warrior ele. I dont deal much damage to them. If they dont fail they must win this fight by just killing the engi constantly. Also in a 2v2 an engi can only rezz with elixir s or blind knock. So almost everytime a team runs engi something other might be more efficient..

so now mister bring me two counter arguments on

1. Engi is too slow to kite thieves (eager to see how you argument there)

2. If you just run on a point and spam bombs you are useless (tell me how usefull that is. Try runing on a point vs a hambow and spam all your bombs winning it).

and last but not least

3. Explain how (which build and role) engi is so viable at the moment. And when you at it explain why almost no team runs engi

In a game without healer its all about passives. There are three options which a build should have (and all builds played atm have them);

either or in combinations:

1. Doing damage while neglecting dmg (hambow knocks, sd thieves evades)

2. Passive damage → possibility to focus entirely on defense. (sigilproccs, rangers, tropical bird, mm necro, turret engi)

3. Passive defense → possibility to focus entirely on damage (eles, warriors)

this problem with passivity, AI etc. Can have two solutions:

1. Make a healer\supporter class and bigger teams.
this would help builds which lack in something and give more possibilities

(and\or)

2. Rework ALL skills so that:

- skills who deal damage cant also be used for defense (for example hambow knocks should do almost no damage.)

- skills who are defensive should deal almost no damage (passive heals deal no damage, but you dont have to decide when to go defensive. You always are. So all passive healing and dmg needs to go)

—> every decision should be based around the thought of: “attack or block?”. There shouldnt be skills who do both!

Yes its sad. The combat is incredibly good. And incredibly much better than in guildwars1.

but after two years this pvp is still missing many things the previous game had and that makes gw1 pvp still better than gw2 pvp.

seriously..its really sad. So much wasted opportunities

if you need a carrot. Everquest next will do it better

Hey, thank you guys for your feedback! We discuss the same stuff internally.

we just want to see how the meta evolves and then we will bring all the changes soon.

we cant really talk about the stuff now but when its ready we will. And i can tell you it will be awesome.

prepare for esportz in 2024

Mesmer damage is too high. But again also is the def on all classes. Mesmer is balanced good its high risk high reward and has a high skill ceiling.

guardian is op. But its like that and that role is somewhat fixed.

warrior deals too much damage. Problem is how condition damage scales. Celestial amulet is too strong. Sigil of intelligence has to go. Strenght runes have to go.

eles have too much sustain in this meta. Again ele is extremely hard to balance. It has either too much sustain or not enough. Id rather see ele have less sustain but more mobilty

thief has just too much sustain for that insane mobility. Imo backstab should be the only variant. Evades are just a joke.

necro fearchain is much too strong and brainless. Again necro also has alot of sustain but this meta is a powermeta. Too much cleanse going on for a confibuild to word in a big teamfight, plus necro gets countered and he is not fast enough to be able to kite

same goes with engi. Balthasar runes are OP and so is celestial rifle grenades. Bombs are not op because in this meta an engi cant 1v1 anything when staying in the point 24\7. And in big teamfights he has to kite like a monster

ranger spirits still is incredibly op. The pressure alone with shortbow and a firespirit is ridiculous. This paired with the insane surviveabilty of all the evades makes it ridiculous. Again its sub par in this meta because it looses the 1v1s vs eles and warriors and conditiondmg is underwhelming in this meta.

phanta once had a very good idea with raising the points gained for a kill. I would do it up to 15 points per kill. This would give more bursty comps a nice boost and actually make them viable. Then youd have two possible winning strategies instead of one like it is now, being:

1. Cap and hold more points

2. Kill more opponents

this and changes (deleting) in runes and sigils would bring the best metachange

Being honest: its kitten. There are tons of better options.

if you want a good teambuild dont play it.

if you want to play the most effective build dont play it.

if you dont care everything can work. And if you say gs powerranger is viable then everything is viable

Engi has almost no place in this meta. In every team playing with engi something other could be a better option.

engi needs to kite like a boss to be viable and have good positioning. He is too slow to kite thieves, mesmers. If you just run on a point and spam bombs youll be useless and just die all the time.

the problems are the high sustain builds which still deal alot of damage.

but seriously. Its no use talking about this stuff. Anet does their own balance tests. They dont care about us in the forums. They have their own ideas how this game should evolve. Nothing we can participate or change with that.

just a nice game to wait for everquest next

Engi is also underpowered big time.

but you know what?

in fact engi necro and ranger are too strong. Warrior guardian ele thief are just more OP. Mesmer is somewhat ok his dmg is too high tough.

basically they should lower everything drastically

It actually was a motivator for me to play. Now i get nothing. The rewards are ok but if i really want something i need to do it in pve to be fast.

there arent even living story reward tracks. But anet doesnt care, they dont listen to the community.

they could save so much time and ressources… Basically every good idea is already on the forums at least with 10 reposts

Wait ill answer that for you: no

thread can be closed

Hey! Skyhammer is great and you know why?

1. Its the only map where the points are the secondary objective

2. It makes engi viable

3. All unused pull, stealth, fear, stability builds\skills finnaly have a spot!

in my opinion skyhammer seperates the men from the women. All the hater just need to l2p. Stealthpull? Easy to counter. Just pick stability noob or counterpull or counterstealth or simply dodge or LOS. All l2p.

skyhammer has just such a high skillceiling that people dont see the complexity of this amazingly well designed map (come on it even has giant wurms and you can bug under the map, how kitten is that?)

so my proposal:

remove legacy of the foefire, khylo, temple and niflhel from soloqueues. They are just boring noskill maps. Let the hardcore players play those in teamqueue. Soloqueue should he all about skyhammer and the also amazingly designed map: spiritwatch. But that map deserves another thread to honor its awesomeness (big bear statue hello?)

make the single map elemination rounds of the tournament of legends on skyhammer! It would give so much skillfull play and finally some diversity!

and last but not least. Please shorten the spawn of the two bases to mid so that its easier to farm rank on my server.

hella you could even remove the capturepoints from skyhammer!!!

this has been discussed to oblivion… forget it, nothing is going to happen.

Enjoy pvp like it is (balance/metachanges all 6 months or more). It will stay like this for a long time.

They don’t care about pvp

dude… they just changed that you need 20k points for a rankup at rank 40 until 80. Before it was 45k then 75k then 150k then 450k.

So if you were r52 you should now be around 77-78 or something. Everybody over rank 40 got their rank increased.

And to say something more about this topic. the rank updated sucked balls. It was much better with the old system. r80 was achievable and rank meant at least something (ppl knew who was a skyhammer farmer and who not).

I’d like to have the old system back. Now every idiot is r80

it’s pretty easy to follow the “meta” builds and which are good.

Builds are almost always tweakable to some degree. GW1 had less options to change a working build. In gw2 you have so many factors which almost make no difference (in gw1 it was the runes maybe)

I can say I have a pretty big knowledge about builds and which are good for each class (been doing my list -now also on my stream- since the game started and multiclassed alot.)

So if you need help I would offer it.

Also something pretty nice for PvP would be if you could do a part on the website called “Tournament builds”. And then list the teambuilds of the finalists (or even go deeper) of each ESL weekly. (I would also offer to help there)

ESL weekly is probably the best source for metabuilds for each class anyways.